You can make the case for WR at 9

is something that has more to do with them being an elite play maker and fitting with McAdoo than it does our depth moving forward. You can definitely make a case for taking WR because of Cruz uncertainties or Randle maybe not being here next year, but that all doesn't matter unless the guy at 9 is a stud. Cooper is and White should be as well.

for a while. Add in this new offense will likely aim to feature multiple 3 and sometimes 4 WR sets and the spectre of having two cost controlled studs as your top 2 receivers is enticing.

with randle, he will most likely either suck which he has done the majority of his career, and in that case hopefully the giants let him go. However, if he plays like he did th last few games of the year, someone will pay him 6-7 million a year next season. Don't really like either scenario

rounds.

Phillip Dorsett in the second would be pretty sweet.

that is the top player on your board. IMO, the biggest reasons are:

1) We are not one weak link from a SB run. Hence when it comes to addressing needs we need to consider a two year window, not one.
2) Winning a SB is not simply about patching holes. You need to be dominant in some areas. If the opportunity presents itself for that area to be WR, so be it, I'll take it.
3) I would argue the biggest problem is lack of OVERALL talent. The ability to add a big time talent to the roster, regardless of position, is a big win that gets us pointing in the right direction.
4) We are drafting in the top 10 and you don't want/expect to be drafting here often. Don't piss away the chance to nab a big time talent on a short sighted need. We will sue all of our picks and continue to work the roster. The process does not end after the pick @ 9 is read.

There are other reasons, but these are the four which I see as most compelling.

Outstanding.

can make a case for a lot of positions because of all the holes on this team. But Reese is just going to draft the BPA. "He was the highest guy on our board," will be the first thing he says when asked why he took player X. If a WR and a player at a another position have the same grade, then I assume he'd pick the WR, based on his preference for "playmakers." Otherwise, it's just BPA.

Muchas gracias.

I second that great post.

Down!!!!

if you have to rely on an OL that has failed to provide even 2 seconds of protection at times,would i like kevin white or amari cooper in big blue of course,do i think its worth taking them if the OL is the mess it was last year? NO

this teams need to add a couple of nasty OL/DL to get back to the blue blue strengths of running the ball and stopping the run first,then worry about adding WR to complement beckham and cruz later

In comment 12193212 msh said:

Quote:

if you have to rely on an OL that has failed to provide even 2 seconds of protection at times,would i like kevin white or amari cooper in big blue of course,do i think its worth taking them if the OL is the mess it was last year? NO this teams need to add a couple of nasty OL/DL to get back to the blue blue strengths of running the ball and stopping the run first,then worry about adding WR to complement beckham and cruz later

Passing attack looked fine after losing our #1 WR and having a rookie come in off a fresh injury and no training camp. You don't honestly believe that Eli never had time to throw, do you?

Last year Eli completed 63.1% of his passes which was a career high & the 2nd highest career yards. He also was sacked 28 times but if you look at it in the years he won the Super Bowl he was sacked 27 & 28 times. The problem with the O-line was run blocking not pass blocking last year.

I believe if Cooper or White are there one of them is going to be the pick.

Can you pass up White, Cooper, or Parker. I do not think that the Giants can pass up on any of those three. The other thing becoming more obvious is how well these top receivers are transitioning into the NFL, and how quickly they do.

To have either of these three along with Beckham would give you a threat that other teams would have nightmares about over the next 4 seasons. I do not believe that Cruz will be the same, and if he does then great, it's a bonus.

I also think that the Giants will be keeping Pugh at right tackle now, and that they can get a guard to fit into that hole they have very nicely in round 2, I also think they must have high hopes for Brett Jones. Based on the fact that they did not do anything in free agency to plug that hole.

One of these guys will be the next star WR.

You can make the same case for the OL as the tackles are question marks long term. How about CB. Why not draft the kid out pif Mich St. What is it going to cost to re-up Price? Who is even the third CB this year?

If Beasley is there at LB why not take him. All of the LBs on the team are middle of the road to question makrs? What if Fowler is there at DE? JPP isn't signed long term.

What about DT. in two years Hankins is free and we have bno idea if Bromley is any good?

Just admit you believe WR is the most important position on the team. I won't agree but at least you don't have to go through mental gymnastics which don't prove anything other than Reese has missed on a a lot of WR picks.

the player who is most likely to be a star. Better to do that than upgrade another position from bad to mediocre.

In comment 12193078 UberAlias said:

Quote:

that is the top player on your board. IMO, the biggest reasons are: 1) We are not one weak link from a SB run. Hence when it comes to addressing needs we need to consider a two year window, not one. 2) Winning a SB is not simply about patching holes. You need to be dominant in some areas. If the opportunity presents itself for that area to be WR, so be it, I'll take it. 3) I would argue the biggest problem is lack of OVERALL talent. The ability to add a big time talent to the roster, regardless of position, is a big win that gets us pointing in the right direction. 4) We are drafting in the top 10 and you don't want/expect to be drafting here often. Don't piss away the chance to nab a big time talent on a short sighted need. We will sue all of our picks and continue to work the roster. The process does not end after the pick @ 9 is read. There are other reasons, but these are the four which I see as most compelling.

Look at Uber showin off. Nice post buddy. I especially liked #4. Well done.

In comment 12193328 Zebra3 said:

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One of these guys will be the next star WR.

And very possibly more than one of them.

In comment 12193415 BillT said:

Quote:

In comment 12193328 Zebra3 said: Quote: One of these guys will be the next star WR. And very possibly more than one of them.

Agreed and why I am not passing up one of them for a non-elite LT versatile tackle. No Tyron Smiths, Taylor Lewans, or Nate Solders in this draft worthy of the 9th pick.

In comment 12193541 Coach Mason said:

Quote:

In comment 12193415 BillT said: Quote: In comment 12193328 Zebra3 said: Quote: One of these guys will be the next star WR. And very possibly more than one of them. Agreed and why I am not passing up one of them for a non-elite LT versatile tackle. No Tyron Smiths, Taylor Lewans, or Nate Solders in this draft worthy of the 9th pick.

I dont think Parker cracks the top ten..

I see it being a pass rusher or a WR...

We have to remember that Reese said PLAYMAKER.. he didnt say WR.. Defensive pass rushers are also PLAYMAKERS..

I see it as WR or edge-rusher with OL a somewhat distant third.

In comment 12193561 Coach Mason said:

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I see it as WR or edge-rusher with OL a somewhat distant third.

My problem is projecting the edge rusher.. The ones that I see that will be there will be Dupree.. and 9 might be a little high for him.. I think outside chance you see Beasley or Gregory there.. and I just dont know how Gregory fits the Giants defense..

Bottom line.. if White or Cooper are gone.. at least one edge rusher should get pushed down.. and vice versa.. If all the edge rushers are gone.. Cooper or White should be available @ 9..

Absolutely he's going to crack the top 10. Infact,he's going off the board @ 9... :) If he's not injured this year his numbers are right up there with cooper. I think everyone underestimates just how good this kid is. I think he's right up there with cooper who in my opinion is better then Kevin White. everyone is enamoured with that 4.35 he ran at the combine,but you dn't see that play speed on film. Parker attacks the ball every bit as well as White and is more explosive on film.

In comment 12193584 chillinman1183 said:

Quote:

Absolutely he's going to crack the top 10. Infact,he's going off the board @ 9... :) If he's not injured this year his numbers are right up there with cooper. I think everyone underestimates just how good this kid is. I think he's right up there with cooper who in my opinion is better then Kevin White. everyone is enamoured with that 4.35 he ran at the combine,but you dn't see that play speed on film. Parker attacks the ball every bit as well as White and is more explosive on film.

I've been one of the bigger Parker supporters here. When I rewatched some of his tape it looks like he made great strides in his game this season.

Parker's numbers throughout his career have been excellent but this last year in only 6 games he had obscene numbers: 43 catches, 855 yards 19.9 YPC...extrapolate that over 13 games and you have 93 catches, 1852 yards and 11 tds (and that's with 3 different QBs not named Bridgewater throwing the ball to him).

I still think his route running at times is sloppy but he pretty much has the whole package: size,speed,strength,good hands,and large catching radius.

Beckham.
Cruz.
Nicks.
Steve Smith.

Barden.
Jernigan.
Moss.

In-between we could put Manningham (who helped us win a SuperBowl, but was very slow to develop) and Randle (jury is out, but he hasn't been what we expected).

They may feel Cruz can come back and they may like some of the younger guys from last year.

I'd love to seem them go WR as well and turn in the new Rams. However, that's not going to happen. Giants aren't picking a WR in round 1.

and it is quite possible BPA at #9 is Cooper or White and Giants draft BPA.

In comment 12193020 Coach Mason said:

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for a while. Add in this new offense will likely aim to feature multiple 3 and sometimes 4 WR sets and the spectre of having two cost controlled studs as your top 2 receivers is enticing.

What you continually fail to take into consideration is no depth on the OL. You keep harping on a WR yet you never take into consideration the Giants already have wide receivers.

From the BBWC
1. WR - The very best the NYG can hope for is #2 receiver. The Giants cannot draft a #1 b/c they already have OBJ. The Giants also have a #2 receiver in Randle or Cruz. In the wings, the Giants have Corey Washington or could certainly find themselves a Phillip Dorsett type after round 1.

Let's say the Giants did go WR in the first round. All that does it send either Cruz or Randle to the bench. Not to mention, Washington never had a chance. Meanwhile, the Giants also have two HB's (Jennings and Vereen) who catch the ball out of the backfield. That's a lot of weapons but just one problem; there is only one football.

2. DE/DL - it's obvious they can add to this position. Of course, any DE sends Moore to the bench and a lot of pressure is coming from the middle in a 4-3 these days being the QB gets rid of the football so quickly.

3. 4 out of 5 starters accounted for? Let's be clear about what Coach Mason is saying again. Despite having a #1 receiver he's concerned Cruz might not come back and Randle might not come back next year so WR is his #1 perceived value.

Ask Coach Mason on the BBI or yourselves, with existing depth at WR why is it so important to draft a WR when all FIVE offensive line positions have zero depth? Not to mention, no RG.

If either OT goes down what takes their place? The answer is nothing. Nothing will likely equate to picking in the top 10 again next season. Should the Giants WR again next year?

Beatty - hoping for back to back years of good play with his history, including injuries, is risky. Who is Beatty's backup? Schwartz? Kind leaves a hole at Guard doesn't it?

Schwartz - I guess he's the answer if either tackle goes down. Who takes his place? What if Schwartz gets injured again? What's behind him?

Richburg - If Schwartz goes down is Richburg the solution at Guard and the CFL kid moves to center? Really?

RG - His list of RG in the 2nd round is legit. There will be solid players there. So long as the Giants don't bank on Jerry's inability to run block, they should ok so long as they don't pass on drafting a Guard in rounds 2 or 3.

Pugh - backups? I won't even name the warm body they signed off the FA market who plays like Brown. There is nothing behind Pugh. A player that might be suited for Guard


Anybody still want a WR? How about the best available need which will solidify the entire OL and provide depth being there is none

I think our pick in round one should be a playmaker since we really only have OBJ and we all saw what he did for the offense, one more talented WR like OBJ or one similar in talent , especially since we don't know what condition Cruz will be in this season and we hope we won't be picking this high again so now is the time to take advantage of this opportunity

is the problem with todays NFL, everyone wants this flashy style of throwing the ball around 50x a game. though that may be fun to watch for the casual fan or the fantasy footballers its an unrealistic way to play the game. One dimensional offenses do not win SB in the NFL. Lets look at the last 10 QBs who led the league in pass yards.

2014 - Brees 4952 yards (7-9)
2013 - Manning 5477 (mopped up by balanced run team inSB)
2012 - Brees 5177 (7-9 missed playoffs)
2011 - Brees 5476 (defeated bybalanced 9ers in playoffs)
2010 - River 4710 (missed playoffs)
2009 - Schaub 4770 (missed playoffs)
2008 - Brees 5069 (missed playoffs)
2007 - Brady 4806 (Lost to balanced Giants in SB42)
2006 - Brees 4418 (blasted by Bears,running team, good D)
2005 - Brady 4110 (lost by 14 pts to Broncos #2 run game)

Get the point???

Without an offensive line to establish a run game, especially in January, offenses become one dimensional and run into balanced teams that control the clock with a run game and stop these vaunted high flying offense. The offensive line should be the #1,#2,#3 priority for this team.

another WR would be real cool. until we go another year with the terrible inability to run the football. Defenses will sit back on the pass like they did to ELi 2 yrs ago and then you idiots will blame him and wonder why he cant get the ball to his (5max) receivers that are blanketed by the 7 defenders that dont need to blitz to get pressure.

Until this line in fixed this team will continue to struggle.

Giants were 7th in pass yards last year AND 23RD IN RUSH YARDS AND YOU WANT ANOTHER RECEIVER.

is a total waste. The Giants just drafted a superstar receiver in the first round last year and still have Cruz and Randle. This team desperately needs to improve in the trenches. If Cooper or White are there at 9 I would hope Reese will be on the phone trying to trade back to a receiver needy team.

I don't disagree that with three blue chip talents (White, Cooper and Parker)potentially available at #9, the Giants, or any other team for that matter, could make a case to take one of them. All three will likely be stars in the NFL. In the Giants case, the situation may be even more acute. The only sure thing we have right now is Beckham given Randle's inconsistency and Cruz' injury. Dwayne Harris, Preston Parker and Marcus Harris are all second tier talents who are serviceable but that's it. The case can certainly be made to add another blue chip receiver.
That said, I'm still sticking with Coughlin's comment from a couple of months ago when he said "...we need to be able to run the ball and defend the run..." This, to me, was a signal from the coach to the team's scouting organization of what he perceives to be the team's two biggest problems. And who could argue.
So with the signings of Kenrick Ellis and George Selvie, they have already shored up the first line of run defense. Both of these guys could be day 1 starters. That said, they have not added that fifth starter to the offensive line through free agency and will likely need to do that through the draft. If they can control the clock better by virtue of a stronger running game, a lot of other problems will take care of themselves.
So with all of that said, the Giants, IMO, will not draft a WR at #9 but will pick the only OL worthy of a top 10 selection in this draft which is Iowa OT Brandon Scherff, a guy who is a perfect fit for the Giants. With this pick, the Giants will have solved their offensive line issue (at least on paper) and can then focus on defensive upgrades and getting a WR later in the draft.
So my first four rounds will look like this:
1. Brandon Scherff OT Iowa
2. Preston Smith DE Mississippi State
3. Damarious Randall FS Arizona State
4. Either a WR (Justin Hardy) or LB (Ramik Wilson)

rounds 3 and 4 look good provided the pick is Justin hardy. Wilson is a 6th rounder at best. scerff would be a huge mistake at 9 when you could get equal atlent at guard at 40,and preston smith is a good run defender but an average pass rusher,but maybe he develops but still I dn't think you draft a run stuffing DE in the 2nd. Drafting at 9 gives us a chance to get a difference maker. Potentially the only defender at 9 that fits the Giants if they think he can be a 3 down 43 LB is beasly. On offense I think it'll be a choice between cooper or Devante parker and that's if cooper hasn't been selected,in wich case the choice is an easy one just like last year with OBJ.

I see the logic in your 452 from yesterday ... and in building a roster, I'll factor in the need you specify beginning in Round 2.

At #9, a position NYG rarely picks from, I want the best player. IF that's a WR, so be it. DE? Awesomer.

Jon

How do we know an OL isn't the BAP at #9? Sure, the team could go WR yet without any depth across the LOS the risk of picking in the top 10 again next season is real. Matt Millen's Lions were built this way. Keep going receiver and ignoring the LOS.

Regardless of first round pick, there is nothing backing up either mediocre tackle let alone anything worth starting at RG or backing up LG or Center (unless you count the CFL kid). That's dangerous.

If OL is the BPA at #9, so be it. I'd be fine with it. I don't expect it to be the case.

With two blue chip WRs in the crop and no true blue chip OL, you can go with Reese's word that he's picking the playmaker (WR or DE).

Millen chose the wrong WR not necessarily the wrong position, and without further context of that draft (which I don't recall), it's like slinging poop at a wall, respectfully.

and the Lions made poor choices in the players they picked. One of the guys had a drug issue and was injury prone. Collar bone if I am not mistaken.

Very different team, and circumstances. Not to mention, I wouldn't compare Matt M. with Reese or Ross.

Newhouse was signed to be the swing tackle, they're likely to defer to him before spending a draft pick on insurance.

In comment 12196034 JonC said:

Quote:

Newhouse was signed to be the swing tackle, they're likely to defer to him before spending a draft pick on insurance.

IMO, if a tackle gets injured and Newhouse is the solution, that's beyond irresponsible going on three years of OL incompetence. When does it end?

but unlikely at #9 in this draft.

The one OL that could change that is Peat, because he projects well to left tackle, and NYG values LT over the other OL positions. I've been talking Peat for six months here but unsure yet if he'll carry the grade. We'll see.

First of all it's a completely different offense than 2 years ago. (BRoken) is the word I think Mara used,wich is why Gilbride was forced into retirement. So comparing 2 years ago to this upcoming year makes little to no sense. The lack of running game the last 2 years has more to do with lack of continuity because of injury to the backs. Granted the Oline didn't do the backs any favors when constantly allowing them to get hit in the backfield. The running game is an attitude and a mentality more then anything. It's hard to develop that when u have a revolving door in the backfield the past 2 years. Andre Williams should be much improved from his rookie season as well. The likes of Andre Brown,Peyton Hillis and Brandon Jacobs both of whom were far from starting caliber backs,were called upon many times to be the guy in 13. Last year our starter was limited for most of the year to say the least. He looked pretty good early in the year running behind that line,and Andre Williams had growing pains as expected of most rookies. Not every rookie can have an OBJ like impact. He developed as the year went on,see Tennessee and St. Louis at the end of the year. He showed promise throughout the year as he saw more playing time. He wouldn't have carried the ball nearly as much if Jennings wasn't injured,so for a rookie backup he did pretty ok,not great but decent considering being thrown right into the fire and the constant shuffeling on the Oline. Does the offensive line need to play better,absolutely. Would it help to stay healthy and consistent so they can develop that attitude,absolutely. So before you go calling everyone idiots you should probably think more about what you are saying because you just end up looking like an (IDIOT) yourself!! Thankfully the Giants F.O. will take all of what I've said into consideration before reaching at 9 for a lineman who doesn't belong in the top 15 picks let alone the top 10. It doesn't matter wich one you make a case for because there isn't a lineman in this draft that should sniff a top 10 selection. it's pretty sad when the best left tackle in the draft is a guard... Haha..

there was no comparison made in my comment. i stated that there will be a repeat of pick city w/o a run game. There is no depth on he line. One starter goes down, we're in trouble. Not to mention the starters themselves need to be upgraded. Who backs up Beatty? Schwartz? Richburg? idk who the other guard is,Jerry, hes a backup at best, but who backs him up if he starts again? who backs up Pugh? There is no one there. Oh yea i forgot we signed some kid from canada. he'll do it all...

an offensive line that has struggled mightily over the last 2 seasons, has a glaring hole in the starting lineup and has no depth is a recipe for disaster (2013,2014) but you seem to have a real good grasp on the game of football, so lets go draft a WR who can maybe get us from the #7 passing offense to the #5 passing offense while we leave the #23 run offense alone and let them figure it out for themselves.and if you think we can get a guard at #40 then shit get another OL at #40.

we have 3 capable running backs,2 of which will catch the ball out of the backfield.... a #1 Wr a #2 WR, a slot receiver if Cruz is healthy, a pass catching TE. But you want WR bc we MAY need someone to man the slot if Cruz doesnt return to form.

Help is needed on the OL. Until that help comes expec 6-8 win seasons. but is ok the WR will have great fantasy numbers.

jackass

Ya like I said Health and continuity should improve the run game right off the bat,and I never said dn't draft an OL in the 2nd or 3rd,but to reach at 9 when u can get a difference maker makes much more sense. Like you said I have a much better grasp of football then yourself based on my explination above wich you failed to read apparently. We do have 3 capable backs right now wich we didn't have 2 years ago or most of last year as I explained above as well. Now hopefully all 3 backs stay healthy and we add a guard to the line in the draft. Hopefully depth at tackle as well in the mid-late rounds. to reach at 9 for a player that does not belong in the first 15 picks is idiotic. You kind of made part of my point for me as well pointing out that we have 3 capable backs going into the season,wich is one of the biggest reasons for the struggles in the run game over the past 2 years,like I said above.

So according to you we should pick the best LT in the draft,who happens to be a guard in the NFL,forgo the best player available and a chance to get a playmaker. Or,we could get a guy at 40 that has comparable skills to scherff at guard. wich makes more sense to you?! Obviously I know wich one you are going to pick because you dn't want to admit you are wrong... :)

Do most of you realize there's more than 1 round to the draft?! Calm down with the desperation Oline shit. yes it's very important for them to play better and more consistent. It's not dyre like most of you make it out to be. 2 years ago we were going into games with Andre Williams,Payto Hillis and Brandon Jacobs at tailback. A never was and two washouts. Last year Jennings started out pretty good behind that line,until he was injured,and Williams was a rookie adjusting to the NFL and improved as the year went on. See tenessee and St.louis. The running game is an attitude and a mentality wich comes from playing togeather over time. Obviously there has to be talent there. An upgrade was needed at the most important position on the line,CEnter,and we've done that. unless it clicks for Jerry we need an upgrade at guard as well,wich can be done (AFTER)the first round. Our 1st pick should be BPA,and by all accounts will most likely be a receiver,either COOper or Parker. A case can be made for either one. Had Parker not been injured for a better part of the season we may be talking about him as the #1 receiver in the draft as his #'s would have been right up there with Cooper. I'm not as enamoured with Whites 4.35 at the combine as most. You just simply dn't see it on film enough. To me Parker is the more explosive of the 3 on tape. He also highpoints and attacks the ball every bit as well as White. Cooper has the edge in route running and production this year and hasn't been dinged the way Devante has wich has caused him to miss games. So unless Beasley is there at 9 and the Giants think he can be a 3 down 43 LB,then there should be no discussion in the war roonm just like last year with OBJ...