"Eli can't throw laying on his back"

Go look at football outsiders who has unique cut on stats. Not as rosy a picture. 22nd OL in football

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/ol

who knows how to get rid of the ball will really aid in the sack/hurry category. The issue is when you can't protect the 5 and 7 step drops, or run, the job gets very easy for the defense. The Cowboys had more confidence in their OL, and could run really well obviously, so they were trying to go down the field more (plus add in Romo's mobility). This leads to more hurries by the defenses.

In comment 12194472 nyynyg said:

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Go look at football outsiders who has unique cut on stats. Not as rosy a picture. 22nd OL in football http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/ol

I'm not sure if I'm reading that chart right but that shows the Giants as the 10th best pass protecting offensive line and by comparison the Cowboys are 17th.If I'm looking at it wrong please help me out

In comment 12194488 NYBEN1963 said:

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In comment 12194472 nyynyg said: Quote: Go look at football outsiders who has unique cut on stats. Not as rosy a picture. 22nd OL in football http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/ol I'm not sure if I'm reading that chart right but that shows the Giants as the 10th best pass protecting offensive line and by comparison the Cowboys are 17th.If I'm looking at it wrong please help me out

yeah, i was just posting more info regarding overall, that was for running.

About the run game was TC's stubborn ass insistence on trying it when it was obviously not working instead of throwing on 1st or 2nd down to loosen up the box.

where you can see how Eli performs results wise with pressure, etc. Goes directly to how he is better if you give him time. Check out the last section in particular.

https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2014/06/05/qbs-in-focus-pressure-and-the-blitz/

particularly those on contact and lack of practice time have resulted in stat inflation across the league.

It's also made the need for premier talent at positions like WR, irrelevant as Seattle and NE have demonstrated in back to back years.

In comment 12194295 Eric from BBI said:

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Beatty, Pugh, Richburg didn't play all that well last year, and Schwartz only played two games, how can you say they are only one player away from being among the best? Also, would it be better to draft a solid but nothing special offensive lineman at #9 or an All-Pro defensive end or wide receiver?

Because fans overrate talent badly

because if we cant run the ball, they will just do their best to cover our wideouts..

just wondering

I'm not conceding the Giants are one dimensional, just short yardage challenged. The Patriots were pretty 1 dimensional, Vereen led all rushers with 391 whopping yds from scrimmage and the team total was under 1,800. Their defense was very good, not great.

what Beatty can give us; we need Pugh, Richburg and Schwartz to step up their play this season and in the latter case, stay healthy. jerry should only be deployed as a backup.

as stated above the Giants were even MORE 1 dimensional 32 in rushing and 32 in yards per carry. Not saying it's a good thing and it shouldn't be fixed but they made it work.

The number of sacks is meaningless. It's the number of "Hits" the QB takes. Eli has been battered the last few years. Of course, with the new offense it wasn't as bad last year.

Coughlin loves to run the ball. He wants to control the line of scrimmage. He's not the "ran and shoot" coach that you all may want. I'm sure Coughlin isn't happy with the run blocking of the OL.

to think this O-line is 1 dominant guard away from being best in class. To me it's more like, 1 more dominant guard is needed to make this team competitive.

To Eric's point about pick 9. I would agree, if there is a much higher graded wide receiver than guard available, you go BPA and take the WR. Then look for a high rated guard in rounds 2 or 3.

Jennings' injury and Andre Williams as a rookie RB that isn't a finesse back?

Not saying our rushing OL stats aren't accurate, but i'm skeptical on what they would have been had Jennings played all 16 games.

I don't remember 1 comment this year with " I like the run blocking"I think it needs to be upgraded as much as most, but I don't see it as broken

If the grades aren't close. If I have Cooper rated at say 82.5 and I have La'el Collins rated at 82.3 I am taking Collins. The grades are close enough, OL is much more of a need than WR. There are more WRs later in the draft compared to OL. Unless I have Cooper rated as much better instead of just close then I am going with the need at that point. If I think Cooper is an All-Pro and Scherff is just a solid OL then you take Cooper no question. But if I think Cooper is a pro bowler and La'el is a pro bowler then I will go Collins.

One thing in my opinion with Eli... If you give him time he is deadly. If you pressure him he will rush and force balls. He won't take a lot of sacks because he will get the ball out whether in a good decision or not, but if you give him time he will make plays for you.

I dont agree there are more WR's than OL in the draft

He doesn't take a lot of sacks and McAdoo's scheme gets the ball out which keeps the stats down. Time in the pocket was scarce and the interior was consistently caved in. He took a lot of hits and hurries. If Richburg continues his progress from last year moving back to C and Schwartz(who should be moved back to his favored RG spot) is healthy that will help.

LG is still a major concern. I don't want to see that spot handed to Jones or Jerry. Drfat a young talent to compete there or draft a RT and slide Pugh there. One more piece of the puzzle will go a long way to providing Giants fans some confidence and peace of mind that our O-Line will be much improved imo.

In comment 12194597 Headhunter said:

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I dont agree there are more WR's than OL in the draft

Who are the OL that will be available after starting in the 3rd round? I can only think of maybe DJ Humphries, Donovan Smith, maybe Jake Fisher, Slim chance that a Tre Jackson/Tomlinson fall, John Miller I guess, etc The list dwindles pretty bad. At WR there is Rashaad Greene, Devin Smith, Phillip Dorsett, Tyler Lockett, Justin Hardy, maybe a Aghalor, Coates, Perriman, 5th-7th round WRs Antwan Goodley, Tony Lippett, Josh Harper, Stefon Diggs, Deontay Greenberry, Ty Montgomery, etc...

OL falls off after the 3rd round... WR goes strong through the draft.

Beatty is average and overpaid but he is a starting LT in this league. He will have an offseason with no rehab this year. Let's see how he does now that he has this normal offseason. This should be an upgrade from last year.

Jerry is the starter at LG for now. His main issue is run blocking, not pass blocking. I'm not a big fan or Jerry but pass blocking is not really his issue. Also, you can find a G in the draft in 1 of the first 2 rounds if necessary. Let's call this a neutral move for now from last year with the potential for an upgrade based on the draft.

Richburg is someone we all loved last year going into the draft. He now has an offseason of weight training and NFL nutrition and is back to his natural position. This is an upgrade.

Schwartz never really played last year especially at G, but he was our prize signing last offseason. He should be a massive upgrade at the G spot.

Pugh had a down year last year after a good first year. I honestly don't know what to expect but I hope playing next to Schwartz helps. At a minimum I think this spot is neutral compared to last year with the potential for significantly better play if Pugh can improve.

This line is not going to be a disaster this year no matter what happens in the draft. People need to calm down about this.

RB is second. Good group at DT. S stinks. TE stinks. CB is top light but has some depth. OL thins out after Round 3.

In comment 12194606 Torrag said:

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He doesn't take a lot of sacks and McAdoo's scheme gets the ball out which keeps the stats down. Time in the pocket was scarce and the interior was consistently caved in. He took a lot of hits and hurries. If Richburg continues his progress from last year moving back to C and Schwartz(who should be moved back to his favored RG spot) is healthy that will help. LG is still a major concern. I don't want to see that spot handed to Jones or Jerry. Drfat a young talent to compete there or draft a RT and slide Pugh there. One more piece of the puzzle will go a long way to providing Giants fans some confidence and peace of mind that our O-Line will be much improved imo.

Completely agree... If we don't go La'el Collins or Scherff then I think we need to go OL in the second. The problem with that is what if a stud falls to the 2nd... Now we pass on an OL there and have to look in the 3rd. Don't get me wrong. My ideal draft would be WR Cooper, OG Tre Jackson, FS Kurtis Drummond, OT Cedric Ogbuehi, SS Jordan Richards, TE Mycole Pruitt, RB Karlos Williams, DB Jermaine Whiteside

In comment 12194628 Torrag said:

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RB is second. Good group at DT. S stinks. TE stinks. CB is top light but has some depth. OL thins out after Round 3.

That is exactly how I see the draft.

in rounds 1-3, then I would be stunned

unless they either signed two all-pros or cluster drafted 3 offensive linemen with their first 3 picks.

who do you play at LG and who do you play at RG?

Until 2014, Schwartz played almost exclusively on the right side. Jerry had bounced around at both guard and tackle positions.

In this offense, who is best suited for each guard position?

In comment 12194653 Ivan15 said:

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who do you play at LG and who do you play at RG? Until 2014, Schwartz played almost exclusively on the right side. Jerry had bounced around at both guard and tackle positions. In this offense, who is best suited for each guard position?

Schwartz in 2013 started most of his games at LG... That is why when we signed him we were going to play him there until he got hurt.

did you see Beckham in Beckham last year? I can't recall anyone saying we should draft him.

had mentioned Beckham, no one had him in their mocks, he was still under the radar to everyone

In comment 12194686 Headhunter said:

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had mentioned Beckham, no one had him in their mocks, he was still under the radar to everyone

agreed.. I think the earliest I saw Beckham being picked was the Jets or Steelers..

Now if one of Collins/Scherff/Peat carry close to the highest grade in other words in the highest tier when we select then you consider it.

However, Edge-Rusher/WR really look like strong bets for BPA at 9.

Further if you have a bunch of very high borderline 1st round grades on the OL that will be there at 40 (very likely in this draft) even more reason not to 'force' the pick at OL at 9.

in his mock the Sunday before the draft. My informed reaction was WTF?

than it was in 2013 means nothing.

In 2013, the offensive line was absolute dog shit. I felt so sorry for Eli out there trying to survive with the likes of James Brewer, Will Beatty, Jim Cordle, Dave Dihel's very last thread, and a mediocre Pugh.

The offensive line still sucked in 2014. No running game until very late in the season until the Giants played bad teams. Do I really have to relive in my head the trash that was the Eagles game that was in Philadelphia where our offensive line looked like a bunch of little girls out there? The offensive line looked great vs the Jaguars right? When the Jaguars rallied from 21-0 deficit, beat Giants 25-24. Oh my God that game pissed me the fuck off and I'd love to scold Larry Donnell some more but I like my wall the way it is.

Lol, can't wait to see Suh again this coming year...yeah...

WR in one, OG/OT in two.

OBj, single handedly turned this offense around......

The line didn't give up a lot of sacks....it gave up a lot of pressures/hurried throws.....as mentioned previously, Eli getting rid of the ball quicker, helped reduce the sack numbers....

23rd in yardage, 28th in ypa in rushing......Did you ever have confidence in this line on 3rd and short, a Giant drive buster?

Beatty played better than the year before, but it was average at best.....can Schwartz stay on the field, and can he play a better RG, than the dreadful LG he played last year? Can Walton be a force at center? Was it injuries, the guy playing next to him, sophomore jinx, or is Pugh not the player we thought he was? His rookie year, we looked away from the mistakes, and the fact that the rest of the line, just flat out sucked....Last year we counted on him,, and he came up short....

So where is the consistency in the line? Only two guys(maybe only one if Pugh moves to LG), will be playing the same position this year.....a good LG/RT is needed to complete the line.....

If the line can stay healthy, and can consistently make third and short conversions, McAdoo can be creative on 3rd down, and make Eli's life a lot better.....

In comment 12194681 Eric from BBI said:

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did you see Beckham in Beckham last year? I can't recall anyone saying we should draft him.

Beckham was being talked about quite a bit. Phil in LA specifically wanted him bad if I remember right. There were people that thought the Jets might move ahead of the Giants to get Beckham. I said that I thought Beckham may go number 7 to Tampa Bay because he was a better fit at WR next to Vincent Jackson than Mike Evans. Beckham wasn't so 20th+ pick selection guy that no saw coming.

No way was Phil in LA talking about Beckham more than a month out from the draft, no way. If you can achieve a post before April 15th 2014 mentioning Beckham going to the Giants, I will apologize

kudos to the guys who posted that, but I barely saw him mentioned on BBI as a Giants option. He was barely mentioned by "experts" too on shows like Big Blue Kickoff Live.

I can see them going OL or WR...but I have a growing feeling in my gut that it will be DE pass rusher.

In comment 12194756 Headhunter said:

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No way was Phil in LA talking about Beckham more than a month out from the draft, no way. If you can achieve a post before April 15th 2014 mentioning Beckham going to the Giants, I will apologize

Didn't know we were talking a month out. I can't recall when the talks of Beckham started, but they were there plenty of time before the draft. Whether that was a week, weeks, a month not sure I see a difference? Before the draft OBJ was hot and people were definitely talking about him being picked in the top 15

In comment 12194780 Eric from BBI said:

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kudos to the guys who posted that, but I barely saw him mentioned on BBI as a Giants option. He was barely mentioned by "experts" too on shows like Big Blue Kickoff Live.

That is because BBI couldn't get their eyes off of Martin or Donald. They wanted Martin or they wanted Donald and no one else! In my opinion that is. Like if you ask me who I want I would say Cooper or La'el Collins so I will project them to the Giants. Doesn't mean I don't think that Scherff will be the pick or even Landon Collins. He could easily be the pick and BBI will complain, but he isn't nearly as bad as BBI makes him out to be.

Lewan, the TE that went to Detroit, Martin, Donald were all going to us and out of nowhere right before the draft we are taking Beckham

Latest ESPN Mocks McShay: Beckham, Jr. Kiper: Donald
sjnyfan : 4/29/2014 1:28 pm
Both have the same for the first 5 picks:

Hou: Clowney
StL: Robinson
Jax: Watkins
Cle: Manziel
Oak: Mack
Atl: (McShay) Matthews, (Kiper) Lewan
TB: (Both) Evans
Min: (Both) Bortles
Buf: (McShay) Lewan, (Kiper) Matthews
Det: (McShay) Ebron, (Kiper) Beckham, Jr.
Ten: (Both) Dennard
NYG (McShay) Odell Beckham, Jr., (Kiper) Aaron Donald

On the 29th McShay had the Giants taking OBJ and Kiper had OBJ going 10th to DET.

I will see if I can find further back.

I would look at the first three rounds and come up with aggregate grades...if the round WR and OL and a simiar grade, but the round 2 (3) OL's had markedly better grades than the WR's, I pick WR in Round 1. In this draft, I've seen several people make an argument that the best overall value is WR and then OG, but I haven't seen anyone make a good case for the converse.

with OBJ going to us was a 11th hour surprise?

I really want Cooper/White to drop and I really want us to take them. However, it seems weird to me that the reason we take them is because we draft BPA as opposed for need but the only way they get to us is if the teams above us draft for need and not BPA.

In comment 12194787 Eric from BBI said:

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I can see them going OL or WR...but I have a growing feeling in my gut that it will be DE pass rusher.

I think Dupree is climbing up boards.. He could be in consideration when the Giants draft..

In comment 12194828 Headhunter said:

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with OBJ going to us was a 11th hour surprise?

My recollection is that OBJ was a fast riser and the later mock drafts had him going near our pick or as our pick.

In comment 12194828 Headhunter said:

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with OBJ going to us was a 11th hour surprise?

11th hour? No not at all... He was hot leading up to the draft. About 2 weeks before both Kiper and McShay had him going 10th to Detroit and 12th to us. 11th hour to us is like when Mayock called Pugh to us. OBJ at least 2 weeks out was being talked about in the top 15 and to us. That isn't 11th hour to me.