nice under the radar signing, like Ellis. Well done, Jerry.
Is this just about the Giants seeking out and signing a good player, or are they also concerned about the health of Ayers and Moore? Right now, we've got JPP, Ayers, Moore, Selvie, and Wynn at DE. I'd be surprised if they were all on the opening day roster.
nice under the radar signing, like Ellis. Well done, Jerry.
Is this just about the Giants seeking out and signing a good player, or are they also concerned about the health of Ayers and Moore? Right now, we've got JPP, Ayers, Moore, Selvie, and Wynn at DE. I'd be surprised if they were all on the opening day roster.
They had 5 DE's on the opening day roster last season.
nice under the radar signing, like Ellis. Well done, Jerry.
Is this just about the Giants seeking out and signing a good player, or are they also concerned about the health of Ayers and Moore? Right now, we've got JPP, Ayers, Moore, Selvie, and Wynn at DE. I'd be surprised if they were all on the opening day roster.
Giants as Reese said like to bring the pass rush in waves. I could see all 5 as JPP can move inside on obvious pass downs ala Tuck. Or maybe Wynn Seaview battle it out for the last spot.
nice under the radar signing, like Ellis. Well done, Jerry.
Is this just about the Giants seeking out and signing a good player, or are they also concerned about the health of Ayers and Moore? Right now, we've got JPP, Ayers, Moore, Selvie, and Wynn at DE. I'd be surprised if they were all on the opening day roster.
Acid Selvie replaces Kiwi.. same number of DE's as last year..
Posted this in the other Selvie thread but thought I'd add it here too
GmanND : 3/19/2015 10:10 pm : link : reply
Found this on a Cowboys message board.
A guy started a thread updating Cowboys fans on Selvie and Spencer:
"I was on plane with Selvie earlier today. He is signing with Giants he was headed over for physical and to sign. Also said Spencer is in Seattle and doubts he is coming back. Said we were in good hands with Hardy and Mincey and Lawrence and that we would grab another DE in draft. By the way what a helluva nice guy. Total class act and gentleman for the short time we spoke and also with other passengers on plane."
nice under the radar signing, like Ellis. Well done, Jerry.
Is this just about the Giants seeking out and signing a good player, or are they also concerned about the health of Ayers and Moore? Right now, we've got JPP, Ayers, Moore, Selvie, and Wynn at DE. I'd be surprised if they were all on the opening day roster.
They had 5 DE's on the opening day roster last season.
Good point. They could have those five, and go with Hankins, Ellis, Jenkins and Bromley at DT. Patterson and Kuhn would be out.
nice under the radar signing, like Ellis. Well done, Jerry.
Is this just about the Giants seeking out and signing a good player, or are they also concerned about the health of Ayers and Moore? Right now, we've got JPP, Ayers, Moore, Selvie, and Wynn at DE. I'd be surprised if they were all on the opening day roster.
They had 5 DE's on the opening day roster last season.
Probably both. Selvie is better than Wynn and arguably better all around than Moore. Probably the 2nd best against the run after JPP (I know PFF loves Ayers' run D, but he always looks like he's getting blown off the ball to me).
His contract terms are pretty fair too, so if they grab a DE in rd 1-2, he could be on the bubble.
Adding depth along the D-line. I wouldn't sleep on Wynn. The guy has a good motor and made plays whenever he was out there. I thought he had a nice rookie year.
I like it a lot. Good price and you are getting a two-way DE. He's not going to be the best run stopper or best pass rusher but he is very valuable depth and shouldn't hurt you if he has to start.
Now, how does that change the need in the draft? IMHO, the best DE/LB speed/edge rusher, assuming no trade down, and that Cooper is gone. :) Since there are a lot of redchip OL available later;
The Giants have had a nice couple of days and as a whole has set them pretty good for the draft outside of safety. We aren't forced to go need right now which should always be the goal of free agency.
nice under the radar signing, like Ellis. Well done, Jerry.
Is this just about the Giants seeking out and signing a good player, or are they also concerned about the health of Ayers and Moore? Right now, we've got JPP, Ayers, Moore, Selvie, and Wynn at DE. I'd be surprised if they were all on the opening day roster.
Giants as Reese said like to bring the pass rush in waves. I could see all 5 as JPP can move inside on obvious pass downs ala Tuck. Or maybe Wynn Seaview battle it out for the last spot.
It was fine to move JPP inside as a rookie/2011 when you had Osi. You absolutely don't move him now as he is our best edge rusher with drop off substantial after him. There is also no reason for him to get beat up inside now and lose the only consistent presence we have on the edge.
and Selvie's signing takes a little pressure off the recovery time for Ayers or Moore, if an issue at all.
He was good/good enough at UCF with a supporting cast to be a 1 trick pony.
He improved with Dallas, with a crew there that let him be that.
With quicker/better LBs than we had, even in rotation, he can do what he does best; especially in the attack scheme of Spags.
RE: Giants are doing a good job of dumpster diving.
nice under the radar signing, like Ellis. Well done, Jerry.
Is this just about the Giants seeking out and signing a good player, or are they also concerned about the health of Ayers and Moore? Right now, we've got JPP, Ayers, Moore, Selvie, and Wynn at DE. I'd be surprised if they were all on the opening day roster.
Moore is a moron who does what he feels like doing out there to hell with his responsibilities. Wynn might be decent, he might be just another project. There was need to hedge bets and Selvie has turned into a solid, if unspectacular rotational linemen.
nice under the radar signing, like Ellis. Well done, Jerry.
Is this just about the Giants seeking out and signing a good player, or are they also concerned about the health of Ayers and Moore? Right now, we've got JPP, Ayers, Moore, Selvie, and Wynn at DE. I'd be surprised if they were all on the opening day roster.
Moore is a moron who does what he feels like doing out there to hell with his responsibilities. Wynn might be decent, he might be just another project. There was need to hedge bets and Selvie has turned into a solid, if unspectacular rotational linemen.
Gene, I'm hoping that Moore, under the tutelage of Spags, finally becomes less of a "moron" as the raw physical talent is there
You do realize that Moore is only 22 years old. He did have 32 tackles & 5.5 sacks on 318 snaps? Only 30% of our defensive snaps and over 60% less them what JPP played. So if he's out there doing whatever he wants then fine by me cuz he's doing a damn good job in very limited snaps.
So at that pace if Moore got the same amount of snaps as JPP he would 96 tackles and 16.5 sacks.
You do realize that Moore is only 22 years old. He did have 32 tackles & 5.5 sacks on 318 snaps? Only 30% of our defensive snaps and over 60% less them what JPP played. So if he's out there doing whatever he wants then fine by me cuz he's doing a damn good job in very limited snaps.
So at that pace if Moore got the same amount of snaps as JPP he would 96 tackles and 16.5 sacks.
It's not a coincidence that JPPs sack "surge" coincided with Moore seeing an increased workload. Moore had 40+ snaps in weeks 13-15 and 17. JPP had 8 of his 12.5 sacks in those 4 games.
RE: what was the reason selvie didn't stick with the giants
You do realize that Moore is only 22 years old. He did have 32 tackles & 5.5 sacks on 318 snaps? Only 30% of our defensive snaps and over 60% less them what JPP played. So if he's out there doing whatever he wants then fine by me cuz he's doing a damn good job in very limited snaps.
So at that pace if Moore got the same amount of snaps as JPP he would 96 tackles and 16.5 sacks.
It's not a coincidence that JPPs sack "surge" coincided with Moore seeing an increased workload. Moore had 40+ snaps in weeks 13-15 and 17. JPP had 8 of his 12.5 sacks in those 4 games.
I think Spags will do more with Moore. He'll figure out the best way to utilize him and we'll likely see a big year out of him.
...not sure why it has become such a mantra here...almost Jonas Seawright levels at this point.
Pray you are all right....and I am in the "Moore has the talent" camp...just don't get the Spags = Dick Lebeau equation.
And re Selvie, I find it interesting that we now have a front four that is very sound vs the run! JPP, Hankins, Ellis and Selvie (much more of a run defender than pass rush threat IMHO)....but that is great! Stop the damn run. 2014 was putrid bad...OMG. I never turn off a game but I came as close as ever with the run thrashing Seattle gave us....as bad as our loss to Titans...as bad as any in 45 years I remember....NO MAS!!!!!!
You do realize that Moore is only 22 years old. He did have 32 tackles & 5.5 sacks on 318 snaps? Only 30% of our defensive snaps and over 60% less them what JPP played. So if he's out there doing whatever he wants then fine by me cuz he's doing a damn good job in very limited snaps.
So at that pace if Moore got the same amount of snaps as JPP he would 96 tackles and 16.5 sacks.
It's not a coincidence that JPPs sack "surge" coincided with Moore seeing an increased workload. Moore had 40+ snaps in weeks 13-15 and 17. JPP had 8 of his 12.5 sacks in those 4 games.
I think Spags will do more with Moore. He'll figure out the best way to utilize him and we'll likely see a big year out of him.
RE: I love the optimism expressed re Moore and Spags
...not sure why it has become such a mantra here...almost Jonas Seawright levels at this point.
Pray you are all right....and I am in the "Moore has the talent" camp...just don't get the Spags = Dick Lebeau equation.
And re Selvie, I find it interesting that we now have a front four that is very sound vs the run! JPP, Hankins, Ellis and Selvie (much more of a run defender than pass rush threat IMHO)....but that is great! Stop the damn run. 2014 was putrid bad...OMG. I never turn off a game but I came as close as ever with the run thrashing Seattle gave us....as bad as our loss to Titans...as bad as any in 45 years I remember....NO MAS!!!!!!
Some of it obviously has to do with Spags last stint here and the effectiveness of the D under him, but it's also an indictment of Fewell and how many believe that the majority of the D has underachieved under him. By that token, Spags doesn't need to be LeBeau to get more out of some of the guys who have disappointed.
I still expect one more DE to be picked at some point in the draft, but if not, I would still feel comfortable going into the season with a rotation of JPP, Moore, Ayers, and Selvie.
as evidenced by his 5 1/2 sacks despite playing limited snaps. Kiwi had his two best seasons of his career under Spags as he was moved all over the place. I expect Spags to use Moore in the same way as he will play DE, DT, and some LB on 3rd downs. We may see a new 4 aces package with JPP Selvie, Ayers, and Moore with Kennard as a rushing LB.
Doesn't the 89% apply across multiple years though? I thought it was a running average.
That's a good question and I'm not certain. Based on limited info, I just don't see how a team can afford multiple dead money contracts yet remain at 89% without that dead money superseding the remaining 11%.
It's almost like 1 year deal is more easily managed. If the player proves to be valuable teams might extend them to their future plans for an additional year. If he gets hurt or doesn't provide value, rather than accumulate dead money, the contract is over.
If it's a running average, it might be easier but there are still pitfalls if a huge contract or multiple smaller contracts are terminated early. Tough to tell for me at this point.
He was in for a tryout but wasnt signed. That could be for a number of reasons, doesnt mean the Giants didnt want him. It could have been a money issue and his agent was shopping for a better deal which he did get with Dallas.
From what I have seen of him, mostly against the Giants is that he has a high motor. He seems to always be giving 100%. I like guys like that. He may not be a star but if he if coming at you at full speed 100% he will make plays. We got him cheap and although its a 1 year deal , he should be a backup with us not a starter so his stats should make him affordable if the giants want him back
Doesn't the 89% apply across multiple years though? I thought it was a running average.
That's a good question and I'm not certain. Based on limited info, I just don't see how a team can afford multiple dead money contracts yet remain at 89% without that dead money superseding the remaining 11%.
It's almost like 1 year deal is more easily managed. If the player proves to be valuable teams might extend them to their future plans for an additional year. If he gets hurt or doesn't provide value, rather than accumulate dead money, the contract is over.
If it's a running average, it might be easier but there are still pitfalls if a huge contract or multiple smaller contracts are terminated early. Tough to tell for me at this point.
I could've sworn the article claiming the Giants were under the threshold said it applied to multiple years (2-3 year window, IIRC).
Even so, they'd be able to get to the 89% threshold by giving out a couple large signing bonuses. My understanding is the entire SB given in 2015 would count towards the money spent threshold for 2015, even though it's pro-rated over the length of the deal.
I think they still need to draft another DT somewhere in their top 5 picks. Bromley is untested and I don't like Kuhn.
Kuhn is probably gone. He's not a NT and he's not really a 3 tech either. Ellis backs up Hankins and could even play NG if they ever played a hybrid 3-4 on some downs. Jenkins and Bromley are the 3 Tech DTs. And JPP is big enough to slide inside ion long yardage passing downs.
I assume they will keep a developmental type DT on the PS.
Based on last year he should be the starter opposite JPP.
Agreed assuming Ayers is healthy. He was the biggest surprise last season as he looked better than advertised. Regardless of who starts I expect Ayers, Moore, and Selvie to get a lot of playing time as Spags loved to use 4 DE's quite often.
they are going to get the same ROI. Why? I get that if the Giants signed all FA last year to 1 year deals and the only thing they did was re=sign those guys, then I to a degree get the dumpster diving mentality. Explain why these players are those players?
RE: RE: Ayers was pretty good overall, not just a one dimensional player
Based on last year he should be the starter opposite JPP.
Agreed assuming Ayers is healthy. He was the biggest surprise last season as he looked better than advertised. Regardless of who starts I expect Ayers, Moore, and Selvie to get a lot of playing time as Spags loved to use 4 DE's quite often.
Ayers looked really,really good. I hope he heals up in time for training camp.
Well that was quick, I guess all he needed to do was land his plane
In comment 12194469 giants#1 said:Quote:In comment 12194451 Giants2012 said:
Doesn't the 89% apply across multiple years though? I thought it was a running average.
That's a good question and I'm not certain. Based on limited info, I just don't see how a team can afford multiple dead money contracts yet remain at 89% without that dead money superseding the remaining 11%.
It's almost like 1 year deal is more easily managed. If the player proves to be valuable teams might extend them to their future plans for an additional year. If he gets hurt or doesn't provide value, rather than accumulate dead money, the contract is over.
If it's a running average, it might be easier but there are still pitfalls if a huge contract or multiple smaller contracts are terminated early. Tough to tell for me at this point.
From an archived thread ... The league's collective bargaining agreement requires that all teams spend 89 percent of the combined salary cap totals from 2013 to 2016. (The salary cap is in place to restrict what players can earn and owners have to spend; the 89-percent cap floor exists to keep cheapskate owners from purposely not spending at all Link - ( New Window )
Ellis and Selvie solidify a solid rotation inside and out. IF Moore can get it together and become a consistent pass rushing threat this group will be dangerous.
The Giants draft plans at DE will hinge on their evaluation of Moore.
Ellis and Selvie solidify a solid rotation inside and out. IF Moore can get it together and become a consistent pass rushing threat this group will be dangerous.
The Giants draft plans at DE will hinge on their evaluation of Moore.
Moore to me has flashed a ton of pass rush potential. If he is let 'loose' as I think Spags will let him do, I think he has a huge year next year oppo JPP.
and you must admit adding an edge rusher at #9 looks really enticing, as does adding a WR.
Good problems to have. If you didn't understand why posters were saying UFA comes before the draft, relax worrying about needs, etc, this is a good example.
but I would have been more excited about adding Adrian Clayborn for 3 mil for one year. But can't complain about 1.4 mil for this guy. Link - ( New Window )
is young.. and maturing. He has produced. I think one thing Spags will do is figure out what he does well and let him do that.. I think Perry was more like.. I need you to do THIS well before I let you do anything else.
He is a good part of a rotation and being used as a run down DE. The team can then bring in Moore on the pass downs. It also give Wynn another year to develop before really being relied on and provides some insurance if Ayers and Moore are dinged up to start the season.
And the price for which he signed is very reasonable.
The front office is doing a very nice job here in the second round of FA. Now just get 1-2 safties (miles and brown?) and then nail the draft.
Does this signing help the Giants to come to a long term deal with JPP
If Selvie gets a lot of PT at DE it's a bad sign for the team. He won't provide a good pass rush. Can't count on him for it.
He's OK as the last DE on the roster but I would still expect them to find something better. And they may have better already with Wynn.
The bad news is they probably won't try and find another NFL vet at DE. This is a mistake. Hopefully, they can cover it with a good find in the draft at DE.
Lot of people seem to like the move now. If he's getting PT it will change and he will be the 2015 BBI whipping boy.
...not sure why it has become such a mantra here...almost Jonas Seawright levels at this point.
Pray you are all right....and I am in the "Moore has the talent" camp...just don't get the Spags = Dick Lebeau equation.
And re Selvie, I find it interesting that we now have a front four that is very sound vs the run! JPP, Hankins, Ellis and Selvie (much more of a run defender than pass rush threat IMHO)....but that is great! Stop the damn run. 2014 was putrid bad...OMG. I never turn off a game but I came as close as ever with the run thrashing Seattle gave us....as bad as our loss to Titans...as bad as any in 45 years I remember....NO MAS!!!!!!
I think it's because spags will attack where Fewell liked to sit at the p o a and let the play come to them. It will be nice to get ayer them for a change and I think moore can do that very well
He was severely overrated in college. NEVER a top propspect which is why he went back that last year (and played worse).
It's not just the lack of explosion and pass rush. People are overrating his play vs the run too. He's a bottom of the roster player. If he makes your team he's a guy you're looking to upgrade. That's it.
Most of all, I'm not happy that it probably ends any further FA moves at the position.
The good news is the contract and they can cut him before game 1.
To fix the issue at DE, I sure can see the Giants going DE in round 1 with Dupree or the UCLA kid.
Looking at the signed, re-signed, newly signed and likely to be signed players, the roster appears crowded. I count about 55 players that most of us would say should have a real shot to make the 53-man roster. That's not counting the draft picks (probably about 5) who we would expect to make the roster.
There is going to be a lot of good competition, and decisions that might be made based on training camp injuries.
Selvie serves a purpose for now as depth and/or a hedge against Ayers' being on the mend, but he's definitely a last DE on the roster type of talent.
I'm onboard with Dupree or OO, both fit the NYG DE paradigm, imv.
TTH, realistically you've got one starting caliber DE in JPP, and the rest are upgradeable pieces. Can they do enough to get by? I suppose, but for a 4-3 defense DE needs to be a position of strength, not adequacy.
In his first year with the Cowboys in 2013, Selvie started every game. He finished second on the team with seven sacks, which was one more than Cowboys all-time sacks leader DeMarcus Ware. Selvie also tied for the team lead in 2013 with seven tackles for loss. He was third on the team with 22 quarterback pressures and had 39 tackles.
Need depth but agree with the point we are lacking in front line talent
what made Spags special here was special talent up front. Right now we have 1 "horse" - JPP. We need another few guys who scare the sh#t outta people and thats not easy to get.
Selvie serves a purpose for now as depth and/or a hedge against Ayers' being on the mend, but he's definitely a last DE on the roster type of talent.
I'm onboard with Dupree or OO, both fit the NYG DE paradigm, imv.
TTH, realistically you've got one starting caliber DE in JPP, and the rest are upgradeable pieces. Can they do enough to get by? I suppose, but for a 4-3 defense DE needs to be a position of strength, not adequacy.
Ayers was every bit a quality starter last season which should make people a little more comfortable and yet doesn't, and I'm not sure why. It's not like he blew out his knee and we have no idea if he'll be the same.
Moore needs to play. He's a second round pick who's had his flashes. He has to be part of it, and not just a minimized role. It's time to find out what he is from this point on so you can have a sense of his place on the roster. Jenkins and Selvie are fine depth. Wynn is another prospect.
I like the selvie signing and like the ellis signing even more.
and like de wynn and think moore will make a heck of a 5th DLer wearing a Linebacker # on his jersey.
but
but, In NO WAY would any of this keep me from drafting DL in premium positions, and I dont mean the 'lil tweeners. none of this changes my draft concept this year. it will depend on the ratings the team has on players.
This is the year to build the best lines in the league on both sides of the ball.
there may be a few DE s just on the bubble of big enough, I will leave that to the scouts, if the skills are so severe as to out weight the smallness of the rear ends when fighting offensive tackles.
Ayers has starter pass rushing tools, but doesn't hold up consistently against the run, and wears down significantly as the game wears on. This is what he's always been in the NFL, he's rotational talent.
Moore needs to get his (mental, maturity) act together, that's on him to demonstrate.
or passing the buck until next year with these mediocre players? I agree Moore should take a leap and JPP could return to form but the rest are nothing special. To get Spags D running we need to land a stud DE in round 1 or 2.
The longer this goes on the longer it looks like JPP playing under the FT......
So we have him for at least one more year.....
We have Hankins.....
The rest will be rotational type players......they may get more tired running onto and off the field rather than playing....
Remains to be seen what kind of continuity this line develops....This line, in no way, shape, or form, comes close to the 2007 line, which Spags had to create pressure, to overcome the shortcomings of the safety position.....
If Selvie gets a lot of PT at DE it's a bad sign for the team. He won't provide a good pass rush. Can't count on him for it.
He's OK as the last DE on the roster but I would still expect them to find something better. And they may have better already with Wynn.
The bad news is they probably won't try and find another NFL vet at DE. This is a mistake. Hopefully, they can cover it with a good find in the draft at DE.
Lot of people seem to like the move now. If he's getting PT it will change and he will be the 2015 BBI whipping boy.
like Parcells said you need to put skins on the wall. Selvie was productive
for the Cowboys he has the stats to prove it. Why am I going to hate this guy next season?
....the past couple of years. So, if he's not that good then maybe, just maybe our offensive line isn't that good. And so maybe, just maybe we should be allocating some premium resources there.
leading up to the draft he was talked about as a first round talent,and a high one at that. between moore,ayers and selvie I think they are set opposite JPP. If he improves against the run then he should get most of the reps. If he does don't be surprised if he leads the team in sacks. He's that talented as a pass rusher. also He can rush from Left end with ayers and selvie holding down the other spot. JPP and Ayers can kick inside as well. I wouldn't count on Wynn being on the roster opening day if they draft someone. He was alright in a pinch last year when they had no one else to play but the pass rush ability isn't there,and he's average at best against the run. Not much upside in my opinion,but then again maybe he proves me wrong in camp and preseason. Best case scenario he improves from last year and edges out selvie. We'll see!!!
Apparently the NFL didn't see it from this young player because the best he could do after all of that production was a $200K bonus.
Why didn't the NFL see it? Is it the NFL doesn't know how to evaluate production at DE? Or is it they have a different definition of that word?
A few sacks does not equal production. He played 500+ snaps last year. 700+ the year before. The NFL looked at those snaps and made a clear evaluation of his play with the demand for him on the open market and that contract.
IF he was a tough guy to block or was consistently disruptive NFL teams would have banged down his door. There would have been a demand. Instead, nobody called.
NY drafts a maniac in round 1 or 2 and subsequently releases one of Ayers or even Selvie before September, or even Moore. I pray Moore figures things out--he sure looks the part and he managed to get a few sacks last year so he's got value--I doubt NY even considers releasing the guy but he's going into year 3...it's put up or shut up time.
I think the best DEs on the team are JPP, Wynn and Ayers but he's hurt. We need more talent at DE. DT looks ok with the latest FA signing.
but Ayers could ultimately be a PUP candidate, especially if they draft a edge rusher (no need to rush him back then). That gives Moore/Wynn extra time to impress and/or Ayers replaces whoever gets injured in the first half of the season.
He got paid as such. He's wasn't signed to start and he isn't going to barring a slew of injuries(knock on wood). He's a solid run defender with ordinary pass rush ability.
He'll do his job as he has the last couple of seasons in Dallas. There is no reason to expect the fans will be upset with him if he gives us what his performance to date leads us to expect from him.
It's the 89% rule. I keep saying it. You will likely see many 1 year deals across the league. Teams cannot afford dead money like yesteryear...
Doesn't the 89% apply across multiple years though? I thought it was a running average.
According to SB Nation, the 89% rule applies to the aggregate cap and aggregate cap hit over the years 2013 through 2016. The salary cap for 2013 thru 2016 is totaled. The team's cap hit for 2013 thru 2016 is totaled. The total salary cap is divided into the total salary cap hit. The result cannot be lower than 89%.
Wish it had been for two years. This guy may still be an ascending player. Came into the league at about 240 and now is 270. Was outstanding for Dallas the last two years. Nice job by Reese.
or passing the buck until next year with these mediocre players? I agree Moore should take a leap and JPP could return to form but the rest are nothing special. To get Spags D running we need to land a stud DE in round 1 or 2.
What stud 4-3 DE's are there really going to be in rds 1 or 2. I can think of one or two I'd take who fit the 4-3 prototype but all the other premium rushers are 3-4 OLB's and far too light in the pants.
Negative. He'll most likely start or be the 3rd DE. Moore won't beat him out, Ayers is one dimensional and that's about it. Tollefson was a fringe talent, undersized, not anything vs. the run and a solid ST player. He was a hustler who got decent reps on passing downs. Selvie has ideal DE size and he started the past two seasons in Dallas. Tollefson was never a long term starter. Did I miss anything in your shitty comparison?
I guess if Selvie=Tollefson (and he doesn't, one will start not be the 4th DE) let's say Selvie does become the 4th DE. That means when I think Rashad Jennings, I should think LeSean McCoy, they both start at RB right? You need to hang up the keyboard or just stick to jokes or whatever other field you dabble in, your football knowledge is crap.
in to play the same role Tollefson played here. 4th D who subs up and down the line in different packages. when the giants see someone as a starter they pay him accordingly - look at the $$$ they gave walton, and were going to give O.Schofield. KWALL2 laid it out nicely above: the market has spoken. $$$ talks BS walks
He definitely (won't)start. Between Moore,Ayers and Selvie they will be splitting snaps,with either Moore or Ayers seeing the majority of playing time. Hopefully Moore improves against the run and he gets the nod. If not I can see him being a 3rd down pass rushing specialist and also giving Jpp abrether as well. Not to mention Jpp and ayers can kick inside while Damontre and selvie man the ends. There's still room for a prospect from the draft as well,even if Moore does take the next step neither Ayers or Selvie are long term answers. I can see the Giants taking a mid to late round flier on another DE...
I think he's a guy that could be targeted in the later rounds. He's a bit of an underachiever but has a lot of upside and talent. he's smart as he graduated as a Jr. so I'm assuming he's very coachable. He defiantely shows a lot more upside then a guy like Wynn with little to no upside,and he has better production than a guy like Danielle Hunter,wich would be another option in the mid to late rounds but I would imagine he'll be pushed up the draft boards based on his workout #'s at the combine.
Is this just about the Giants seeking out and signing a good player, or are they also concerned about the health of Ayers and Moore? Right now, we've got JPP, Ayers, Moore, Selvie, and Wynn at DE. I'd be surprised if they were all on the opening day roster.
Giants giving former Cowboys DE George Selvie 1-year, $1.4 million deal that includes $200K signing bonus. Reunited with USF teammate JPP.
Is this just about the Giants seeking out and signing a good player, or are they also concerned about the health of Ayers and Moore? Right now, we've got JPP, Ayers, Moore, Selvie, and Wynn at DE. I'd be surprised if they were all on the opening day roster.
They had 5 DE's on the opening day roster last season.
Is this just about the Giants seeking out and signing a good player, or are they also concerned about the health of Ayers and Moore? Right now, we've got JPP, Ayers, Moore, Selvie, and Wynn at DE. I'd be surprised if they were all on the opening day roster.
Giants as Reese said like to bring the pass rush in waves. I could see all 5 as JPP can move inside on obvious pass downs ala Tuck. Or maybe Wynn Seaview battle it out for the last spot.
Is this just about the Giants seeking out and signing a good player, or are they also concerned about the health of Ayers and Moore? Right now, we've got JPP, Ayers, Moore, Selvie, and Wynn at DE. I'd be surprised if they were all on the opening day roster.
Acid Selvie replaces Kiwi.. same number of DE's as last year..
GmanND : 3/19/2015 10:10 pm : link : reply
Found this on a Cowboys message board.
A guy started a thread updating Cowboys fans on Selvie and Spencer:
"I was on plane with Selvie earlier today. He is signing with Giants he was headed over for physical and to sign. Also said Spencer is in Seattle and doubts he is coming back. Said we were in good hands with Hardy and Mincey and Lawrence and that we would grab another DE in draft. By the way what a helluva nice guy. Total class act and gentleman for the short time we spoke and also with other passengers on plane."
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nice under the radar signing, like Ellis. Well done, Jerry.
Is this just about the Giants seeking out and signing a good player, or are they also concerned about the health of Ayers and Moore? Right now, we've got JPP, Ayers, Moore, Selvie, and Wynn at DE. I'd be surprised if they were all on the opening day roster.
They had 5 DE's on the opening day roster last season.
Good point. They could have those five, and go with Hankins, Ellis, Jenkins and Bromley at DT. Patterson and Kuhn would be out.
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nice under the radar signing, like Ellis. Well done, Jerry.
Is this just about the Giants seeking out and signing a good player, or are they also concerned about the health of Ayers and Moore? Right now, we've got JPP, Ayers, Moore, Selvie, and Wynn at DE. I'd be surprised if they were all on the opening day roster.
They had 5 DE's on the opening day roster last season.
Probably both. Selvie is better than Wynn and arguably better all around than Moore. Probably the 2nd best against the run after JPP (I know PFF loves Ayers' run D, but he always looks like he's getting blown off the ball to me).
His contract terms are pretty fair too, so if they grab a DE in rd 1-2, he could be on the bubble.
Do like the signing. Quality 3rd de in rotation.
Do like the signing. Quality 3rd de in rotation.
I think most of the DL is in their final year. IIRC, only Moore, Bromley and Hankins aren't.
assuming the players are there in the draft, and some are this year.
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nice under the radar signing, like Ellis. Well done, Jerry.
Is this just about the Giants seeking out and signing a good player, or are they also concerned about the health of Ayers and Moore? Right now, we've got JPP, Ayers, Moore, Selvie, and Wynn at DE. I'd be surprised if they were all on the opening day roster.
Giants as Reese said like to bring the pass rush in waves. I could see all 5 as JPP can move inside on obvious pass downs ala Tuck. Or maybe Wynn Seaview battle it out for the last spot.
It was fine to move JPP inside as a rookie/2011 when you had Osi. You absolutely don't move him now as he is our best edge rusher with drop off substantial after him. There is also no reason for him to get beat up inside now and lose the only consistent presence we have on the edge.
He was good/good enough at UCF with a supporting cast to be a 1 trick pony.
He improved with Dallas, with a crew there that let him be that.
With quicker/better LBs than we had, even in rotation, he can do what he does best; especially in the attack scheme of Spags.
let's see. we did a lot of diving to fill the roster last year and much of that did not turn into gold.
Is this just about the Giants seeking out and signing a good player, or are they also concerned about the health of Ayers and Moore? Right now, we've got JPP, Ayers, Moore, Selvie, and Wynn at DE. I'd be surprised if they were all on the opening day roster.
Giants Sign Selvie - ( New Window )
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nice under the radar signing, like Ellis. Well done, Jerry.
Is this just about the Giants seeking out and signing a good player, or are they also concerned about the health of Ayers and Moore? Right now, we've got JPP, Ayers, Moore, Selvie, and Wynn at DE. I'd be surprised if they were all on the opening day roster.
Moore is a moron who does what he feels like doing out there to hell with his responsibilities. Wynn might be decent, he might be just another project. There was need to hedge bets and Selvie has turned into a solid, if unspectacular rotational linemen.
Gene, I'm hoping that Moore, under the tutelage of Spags, finally becomes less of a "moron" as the raw physical talent is there
Meant Gtt350... two threads got in before mine...
So at that pace if Moore got the same amount of snaps as JPP he would 96 tackles and 16.5 sacks.
So at that pace if Moore got the same amount of snaps as JPP he would 96 tackles and 16.5 sacks.
It's not a coincidence that JPPs sack "surge" coincided with Moore seeing an increased workload. Moore had 40+ snaps in weeks 13-15 and 17. JPP had 8 of his 12.5 sacks in those 4 games.
No room for him on the roster I think, he was only in for a try out.
New York Giants Sign Defensive End George Selvie - ( New Window )
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You do realize that Moore is only 22 years old. He did have 32 tackles & 5.5 sacks on 318 snaps? Only 30% of our defensive snaps and over 60% less them what JPP played. So if he's out there doing whatever he wants then fine by me cuz he's doing a damn good job in very limited snaps.
So at that pace if Moore got the same amount of snaps as JPP he would 96 tackles and 16.5 sacks.
It's not a coincidence that JPPs sack "surge" coincided with Moore seeing an increased workload. Moore had 40+ snaps in weeks 13-15 and 17. JPP had 8 of his 12.5 sacks in those 4 games.
I think Spags will do more with Moore. He'll figure out the best way to utilize him and we'll likely see a big year out of him.
It's the 89% rule. I keep saying it. You will likely see many 1 year deals across the league. Teams cannot afford dead money like yesteryear.
IMO, I also believe you will see many of these players under 1 year deals extended well before free agency unlike now.
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I was actually hoping for a 2 year deal though....just for nice insurance in case they can't get a deal with JPP. He's a nice veteran DE to have.
It's the 89% rule. I keep saying it. You will likely see many 1 year deals across the league. Teams cannot afford dead money like yesteryear.
IMO, I also believe you will see many of these players under 1 year deals extended well before free agency unlike now.
Doesn't the 89% apply across multiple years though? I thought it was a running average.
2nd team line coming together
Vernon, wishes his hair line was that straight.
Pray you are all right....and I am in the "Moore has the talent" camp...just don't get the Spags = Dick Lebeau equation.
And re Selvie, I find it interesting that we now have a front four that is very sound vs the run! JPP, Hankins, Ellis and Selvie (much more of a run defender than pass rush threat IMHO)....but that is great! Stop the damn run. 2014 was putrid bad...OMG. I never turn off a game but I came as close as ever with the run thrashing Seattle gave us....as bad as our loss to Titans...as bad as any in 45 years I remember....NO MAS!!!!!!
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You do realize that Moore is only 22 years old. He did have 32 tackles & 5.5 sacks on 318 snaps? Only 30% of our defensive snaps and over 60% less them what JPP played. So if he's out there doing whatever he wants then fine by me cuz he's doing a damn good job in very limited snaps.
So at that pace if Moore got the same amount of snaps as JPP he would 96 tackles and 16.5 sacks.
It's not a coincidence that JPPs sack "surge" coincided with Moore seeing an increased workload. Moore had 40+ snaps in weeks 13-15 and 17. JPP had 8 of his 12.5 sacks in those 4 games.
I think Spags will do more with Moore. He'll figure out the best way to utilize him and we'll likely see a big year out of him.
Pray you are all right....and I am in the "Moore has the talent" camp...just don't get the Spags = Dick Lebeau equation.
And re Selvie, I find it interesting that we now have a front four that is very sound vs the run! JPP, Hankins, Ellis and Selvie (much more of a run defender than pass rush threat IMHO)....but that is great! Stop the damn run. 2014 was putrid bad...OMG. I never turn off a game but I came as close as ever with the run thrashing Seattle gave us....as bad as our loss to Titans...as bad as any in 45 years I remember....NO MAS!!!!!!
Some of it obviously has to do with Spags last stint here and the effectiveness of the D under him, but it's also an indictment of Fewell and how many believe that the majority of the D has underachieved under him. By that token, Spags doesn't need to be LeBeau to get more out of some of the guys who have disappointed.
Spags gets up the field which plays right into Moore's strengths. he will kill it for Spags in Osi's old position, watch
Doesn't the 89% apply across multiple years though? I thought it was a running average.
That's a good question and I'm not certain. Based on limited info, I just don't see how a team can afford multiple dead money contracts yet remain at 89% without that dead money superseding the remaining 11%.
It's almost like 1 year deal is more easily managed. If the player proves to be valuable teams might extend them to their future plans for an additional year. If he gets hurt or doesn't provide value, rather than accumulate dead money, the contract is over.
If it's a running average, it might be easier but there are still pitfalls if a huge contract or multiple smaller contracts are terminated early. Tough to tell for me at this point.
From what I have seen of him, mostly against the Giants is that he has a high motor. He seems to always be giving 100%. I like guys like that. He may not be a star but if he if coming at you at full speed 100% he will make plays. We got him cheap and although its a 1 year deal , he should be a backup with us not a starter so his stats should make him affordable if the giants want him back
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In comment 12194451 Giants2012 said:
Doesn't the 89% apply across multiple years though? I thought it was a running average.
That's a good question and I'm not certain. Based on limited info, I just don't see how a team can afford multiple dead money contracts yet remain at 89% without that dead money superseding the remaining 11%.
It's almost like 1 year deal is more easily managed. If the player proves to be valuable teams might extend them to their future plans for an additional year. If he gets hurt or doesn't provide value, rather than accumulate dead money, the contract is over.
If it's a running average, it might be easier but there are still pitfalls if a huge contract or multiple smaller contracts are terminated early. Tough to tell for me at this point.
I could've sworn the article claiming the Giants were under the threshold said it applied to multiple years (2-3 year window, IIRC).
Even so, they'd be able to get to the 89% threshold by giving out a couple large signing bonuses. My understanding is the entire SB given in 2015 would count towards the money spent threshold for 2015, even though it's pro-rated over the length of the deal.
I just am not sure what Spags is going to bring given TC's comments re "Spags learned a lot in his time away..."
I am content thinking we have a run first DE in Selvie and 2 pass rush first DEs in Ayers and Moore....
Stop the g...damn run!!!
We have some talent at CB and I think can rush the passer if it's not 3rd and 1 every time ....let alone 2nd and 2!
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let's see. we did a lot of diving to fill the roster last year and much of that did not turn into gold.
Ummm, we were shopping at Nordstorm's, if not Neiman Marcus, last year. We were far from the dumpster.
Kuhn is probably gone. He's not a NT and he's not really a 3 tech either. Ellis backs up Hankins and could even play NG if they ever played a hybrid 3-4 on some downs. Jenkins and Bromley are the 3 Tech DTs. And JPP is big enough to slide inside ion long yardage passing downs.
I assume they will keep a developmental type DT on the PS.
I am talking about adding either a premium two way End, and/ or a DT/DE tweener, or a "3/4" type end to the roster as well and looking for room.
As for those who like how Moore might improve, I am all for keeping him on the roster, ......as a "linebacker" (5th DL)
and I like the selvie and ellis moves a lot, however:
in short:
"we are not done yet"
Agreed assuming Ayers is healthy. He was the biggest surprise last season as he looked better than advertised. Regardless of who starts I expect Ayers, Moore, and Selvie to get a lot of playing time as Spags loved to use 4 DE's quite often.
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Based on last year he should be the starter opposite JPP.
Agreed assuming Ayers is healthy. He was the biggest surprise last season as he looked better than advertised. Regardless of who starts I expect Ayers, Moore, and Selvie to get a lot of playing time as Spags loved to use 4 DE's quite often.
Ayers looked really,really good. I hope he heals up in time for training camp.
Doesn't the 89% apply across multiple years though? I thought it was a running average.
That's a good question and I'm not certain. Based on limited info, I just don't see how a team can afford multiple dead money contracts yet remain at 89% without that dead money superseding the remaining 11%.
It's almost like 1 year deal is more easily managed. If the player proves to be valuable teams might extend them to their future plans for an additional year. If he gets hurt or doesn't provide value, rather than accumulate dead money, the contract is over.
If it's a running average, it might be easier but there are still pitfalls if a huge contract or multiple smaller contracts are terminated early. Tough to tell for me at this point.
From an archived thread ...
The league's collective bargaining agreement requires that all teams spend 89 percent of the combined salary cap totals from 2013 to 2016. (The salary cap is in place to restrict what players can earn and owners have to spend; the 89-percent cap floor exists to keep cheapskate owners from purposely not spending at all
Link - ( New Window )
The Giants draft plans at DE will hinge on their evaluation of Moore.
The Giants draft plans at DE will hinge on their evaluation of Moore.
Moore to me has flashed a ton of pass rush potential. If he is let 'loose' as I think Spags will let him do, I think he has a huge year next year oppo JPP.
Good problems to have. If you didn't understand why posters were saying UFA comes before the draft, relax worrying about needs, etc, this is a good example.
Link - ( New Window )
Cap?
New York Giants Sign Defensive End George Selvie (Updated with quotes) - ( New Window )
And the price for which he signed is very reasonable.
The front office is doing a very nice job here in the second round of FA. Now just get 1-2 safties (miles and brown?) and then nail the draft.
He's OK as the last DE on the roster but I would still expect them to find something better. And they may have better already with Wynn.
The bad news is they probably won't try and find another NFL vet at DE. This is a mistake. Hopefully, they can cover it with a good find in the draft at DE.
Lot of people seem to like the move now. If he's getting PT it will change and he will be the 2015 BBI whipping boy.
Pray you are all right....and I am in the "Moore has the talent" camp...just don't get the Spags = Dick Lebeau equation.
And re Selvie, I find it interesting that we now have a front four that is very sound vs the run! JPP, Hankins, Ellis and Selvie (much more of a run defender than pass rush threat IMHO)....but that is great! Stop the damn run. 2014 was putrid bad...OMG. I never turn off a game but I came as close as ever with the run thrashing Seattle gave us....as bad as our loss to Titans...as bad as any in 45 years I remember....NO MAS!!!!!!
I think it's because spags will attack where Fewell liked to sit at the p o a and let the play come to them. It will be nice to get ayer them for a change and I think moore can do that very well
It's not just the lack of explosion and pass rush. People are overrating his play vs the run too. He's a bottom of the roster player. If he makes your team he's a guy you're looking to upgrade. That's it.
Most of all, I'm not happy that it probably ends any further FA moves at the position.
The good news is the contract and they can cut him before game 1.
To fix the issue at DE, I sure can see the Giants going DE in round 1 with Dupree or the UCLA kid.
There is going to be a lot of good competition, and decisions that might be made based on training camp injuries.
Ayers
Jenkins
Moore
Selvie
Wynn
Even leaving off the inevitable camp invites and practice squad players.
There are only so many roster spots.
I'm onboard with Dupree or OO, both fit the NYG DE paradigm, imv.
TTH, realistically you've got one starting caliber DE in JPP, and the rest are upgradeable pieces. Can they do enough to get by? I suppose, but for a 4-3 defense DE needs to be a position of strength, not adequacy.
what made Spags special here was special talent up front. Right now we have 1 "horse" - JPP. We need another few guys who scare the sh#t outta people and thats not easy to get.
I'm onboard with Dupree or OO, both fit the NYG DE paradigm, imv.
TTH, realistically you've got one starting caliber DE in JPP, and the rest are upgradeable pieces. Can they do enough to get by? I suppose, but for a 4-3 defense DE needs to be a position of strength, not adequacy.
Ayers was every bit a quality starter last season which should make people a little more comfortable and yet doesn't, and I'm not sure why. It's not like he blew out his knee and we have no idea if he'll be the same.
Moore needs to play. He's a second round pick who's had his flashes. He has to be part of it, and not just a minimized role. It's time to find out what he is from this point on so you can have a sense of his place on the roster. Jenkins and Selvie are fine depth. Wynn is another prospect.
and like de wynn and think moore will make a heck of a 5th DLer wearing a Linebacker # on his jersey.
but
but, In NO WAY would any of this keep me from drafting DL in premium positions, and I dont mean the 'lil tweeners. none of this changes my draft concept this year. it will depend on the ratings the team has on players.
This is the year to build the best lines in the league on both sides of the ball.
there may be a few DE s just on the bubble of big enough, I will leave that to the scouts, if the skills are so severe as to out weight the smallness of the rear ends when fighting offensive tackles.
Moore needs to get his (mental, maturity) act together, that's on him to demonstrate.
So we have him for at least one more year.....
We have Hankins.....
The rest will be rotational type players......they may get more tired running onto and off the field rather than playing....
Remains to be seen what kind of continuity this line develops....This line, in no way, shape, or form, comes close to the 2007 line, which Spags had to create pressure, to overcome the shortcomings of the safety position.....
He's OK as the last DE on the roster but I would still expect them to find something better. And they may have better already with Wynn.
The bad news is they probably won't try and find another NFL vet at DE. This is a mistake. Hopefully, they can cover it with a good find in the draft at DE.
Lot of people seem to like the move now. If he's getting PT it will change and he will be the 2015 BBI whipping boy.
Translation: They signed the wrong George. :)
1. JPP
2. Moore
3. Ayers
4. Selvie
5. Wynn
for the Cowboys he has the stats to prove it. Why am I going to hate this guy next season?
But I am very leery about which one or ones have value for us at 9, and thus the trade down, getting two.
Not even close, but thanks for playing and again showing how little you grasp.
3 Of which stop the run very well ( JPP,Selvie, Wynn)
Solid rotation for the moment
When did we have him???
Which has probably been mentioned 100 times in this thread.
Selvie is ok...he won't ensure a great season but he won't cause a terrible one either.
Which has probably been mentioned 100 times in this thread.
Selvie is ok...he won't ensure a great season but he won't cause a terrible one either.
Agreed at worst he will provide more than Kiwi did last season.
That may be because he wore down due to their lack of depth. That shouldn't be a problem here because he is likely to be the 4th DE here.
Let's hope so. In theory it could.
Why didn't the NFL see it? Is it the NFL doesn't know how to evaluate production at DE? Or is it they have a different definition of that word?
A few sacks does not equal production. He played 500+ snaps last year. 700+ the year before. The NFL looked at those snaps and made a clear evaluation of his play with the demand for him on the open market and that contract.
IF he was a tough guy to block or was consistently disruptive NFL teams would have banged down his door. There would have been a demand. Instead, nobody called.
I think the best DEs on the team are JPP, Wynn and Ayers but he's hurt. We need more talent at DE. DT looks ok with the latest FA signing.
He'll do his job as he has the last couple of seasons in Dallas. There is no reason to expect the fans will be upset with him if he gives us what his performance to date leads us to expect from him.
Doesn't the 89% apply across multiple years though? I thought it was a running average.
According to SB Nation, the 89% rule applies to the aggregate cap and aggregate cap hit over the years 2013 through 2016. The salary cap for 2013 thru 2016 is totaled. The team's cap hit for 2013 thru 2016 is totaled. The total salary cap is divided into the total salary cap hit. The result cannot be lower than 89%.
I miss the Tic Tock Diner.
What stud 4-3 DE's are there really going to be in rds 1 or 2. I can think of one or two I'd take who fit the 4-3 prototype but all the other premium rushers are 3-4 OLB's and far too light in the pants.
lol highlight of the 2015 Giants FA period
Negative. He'll most likely start or be the 3rd DE. Moore won't beat him out, Ayers is one dimensional and that's about it. Tollefson was a fringe talent, undersized, not anything vs. the run and a solid ST player. He was a hustler who got decent reps on passing downs. Selvie has ideal DE size and he started the past two seasons in Dallas. Tollefson was never a long term starter. Did I miss anything in your shitty comparison?
I guess if Selvie=Tollefson (and he doesn't, one will start not be the 4th DE) let's say Selvie does become the 4th DE. That means when I think Rashad Jennings, I should think LeSean McCoy, they both start at RB right? You need to hang up the keyboard or just stick to jokes or whatever other field you dabble in, your football knowledge is crap.