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How good is Eli?

banks58 : 3/20/2015 8:36 pm
2 Super Bowls is the 1st thing that comes to my mind. However, when thinking about it, I'm most impressed with his durability. He's definitely proven he can play through pain and injury. He's cerebral and puts in the work including the off season. He's not a "leader" but is described by his team mates as someone who bonds with them usually as a practical joker.
He fits the Giants fan base as a perfect role model and well liked by management in that regard. A perfect face for any team. His press conferences like "most" QB's are something any of us could predict what's going to be said.

Peel back the rind and look at stats and it's not pretty. We have a pocket passer with little to no mobility. A propensity to throw I'll timed INT's and accuracy is questionable. He's in the bottom 1/4 of the league in terms of arm strength(ball velocity) and that contributes in my option to more INT's.

In a nutshell, everything you want from a PR perspective, but not what I'm looking for in a QB. Numbers don't lie!

Curious what I missed, and your thoughts?
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Lol  
banks58 : 3/21/2015 10:10 am : link
I've been here longer than most of you! This is only my 2nd handle because of the recent issues.
I went to camp and provided reports along with Marty. I met many BBI members when they had their get together in Albany. HopeJ and Bob in Annapolis were great and missed. Eric is enjoyable to have conversation and I gave my donation in cash when I saw him. Lay off the dupe topic.
I have noticed most of the people I met no longer post or have decided it's not worth it. SOTI....remember him? Yeah, gone! The only remaining posters are bb56,Eric,Britt in Va and George in Manhattan. Once in awhile gidiefor will come on.
My topic was simply asking for your thoughts. It turned into a pissing match. Ask 5 fans that root for different teams there thoughts about Eli? See what you get. I have no agenda. I was curious asking on a Giants forum. Is that wrong now? If also invite you to re-read my original post.
Your original post  
dep026 : 3/21/2015 10:20 am : link
Quote:
He's not a "leader" but is described by his team mates as someone who bonds with them usually as a practical joker.

Peel back the rind and look at stats and it's not pretty. We have a pocket passer with little to no mobility. A propensity to throw I'll timed INT's and accuracy is questionable. He's in the bottom 1/4 of the league in terms of arm strength(ball velocity) and that contributes in my option to more INT's.

In a nutshell, everything you want from a PR perspective, but not what I'm looking for in a QB. Numbers don't lie!


Let me break it down for you.

1. He isnt a "leader". Now how are you going to be put in a position where YOU can make that claim. Based off what? Tiki barber about 10 years ago? Every report said Eli is a leader in the locker room, is one of the hardest working Giants, and works constantly to get better.

2. He has no mobility. About 10 posters have said his mobility in the pocket is one of his greatest strengths. Most pundits have it one of the best in the league. No, he isnt going to scramble for 15-20 yards, he isnt like Romo who just runs around in the backfield. But he is excellent and finding the lane he needs to throw too.

3. He throws ill-timed INTs. I'll give you that one.

4. Arm strength being in the bottom 1/4th. Well first, how do you know? Did you measure every single QBs arm in the league? Next, who cares if it was. His arm is certainly stronger than Peytons, and he has done ok in his career. Same with Matt Ryan and Philip Rivers. Refer back to my Jeff George analogy as why it doesnt matter hwo strong your arm is. Jamarcus Russell had a fantastic arm, where is he now?

5. His stats. I slaready showed you how he has ranked in the top 10 in the NFL in yards, attempts, completions, and TDs for the majority of his career. You wanted him in the upper half, well he is even better than that. He is in the top 10.

So again, lot of your original post is speculation on your part, not backed up by facts or statistics. And when a poster shows you when you are wrong, you ignore them or basically flat out say they are wrong, even when backed up. You didnt want to start a discussion, you would looking to stir the pot, and failed miserably. Now for the sake of the board.... admit you were wrong and/or ignorant and move along. You have embarrassed yourself enough on this thread.
Dep  
banks58 : 3/21/2015 11:41 am : link
1) I have the privilege of sitting with Chris Mara each year at an annual Rick Pittino event, put on for a deceased client. I'm a SR vp at a major brokerage firm. It's held at Saratoga national and Bill Parcells is also in attendance. They poke fun over drinks about Eli when he tries to give a speech or lead. He's known as a practical joker and that's how he gets through to the team. I gave him credit for his work Ethic in my original post. It's more than Tiki. Coughlin has spoke to him many times about being more vocal. Strahan called him Opie. Yes, I'm frustrated when I see other QB's get emotional and watch Eli simply shrug his shoulders.
2) mobility can't be put into a stat. Romo creates plays and Big Ben is hard to take down. Eli leads in turnovers trying to get rid of the ball when he has scrambled. Fumbles need to enter that conversation too.
3) we're in agreement.
4) stats. I think that goes back to durability and playing from behind, no? An all time list of what he's done has to be put into context of today's NFL. It's also the reason I posed the original question. You were kind enough to provide the info....thank you! Why you added smug remarks is on you.
5) you said this thread would get no traction. Aside from talking about McDonalds, It seems to have plenty of hits for responses. Would you like to discuss a bigmac on a Giants forum?
Bottom line is I looked for a discussion about Giants football and have had little success in proving to others how good a player Eli is when speaking with fans if it her teams. You gave me a good list if things to discuss. Thank you....
Then you should know there are many ways to lead...  
okiegiant : 3/21/2015 11:56 am : link
and being emotional and yelling is often counter productive.

Quote:
I'm a SR vp at a major brokerage firm.


Also, please acknowledge many posters have presented stats and other opinions you have chosen to ignore.

Also, I would be shocked if Mara ever said Manning wasn't a leader in public.
Okie,  
banks58 : 3/21/2015 11:59 am : link
What did I ignore?
banks58  
Jay on the Island : 3/21/2015 12:00 pm : link
what did you think of Fewell's defense? Would you consider it too complex?
RE: Dep  
dep026 : 3/21/2015 12:09 pm : link
In comment 12196068 banks58 said:
Quote:
1) I have the privilege of sitting with Chris Mara each year at an annual Rick Pittino event, put on for a deceased client. I'm a SR vp at a major brokerage firm. It's held at Saratoga national and Bill Parcells is also in attendance. They poke fun over drinks about Eli when he tries to give a speech or lead. He's known as a practical joker and that's how he gets through to the team. I gave him credit for his work Ethic in my original post. It's more than Tiki. Coughlin has spoke to him many times about being more vocal. Strahan called him Opie. Yes, I'm frustrated when I see other QB's get emotional and watch Eli simply shrug his shoulders.
2) mobility can't be put into a stat. Romo creates plays and Big Ben is hard to take down. Eli leads in turnovers trying to get rid of the ball when he has scrambled. Fumbles need to enter that conversation too.
3) we're in agreement.
4) stats. I think that goes back to durability and playing from behind, no? An all time list of what he's done has to be put into context of today's NFL. It's also the reason I posed the original question. You were kind enough to provide the info....thank you! Why you added smug remarks is on you.
5) you said this thread would get no traction. Aside from talking about McDonalds, It seems to have plenty of hits for responses. Would you like to discuss a bigmac on a Giants forum?
Bottom line is I looked for a discussion about Giants football and have had little success in proving to others how good a player Eli is when speaking with fans if it her teams. You gave me a good list if things to discuss. Thank you....


To be quite frank, I think you are full of shit and dont know your ass from a football.

Just an absolutely pathetic thread from a previous banned poster.
Hi Jay  
banks58 : 3/21/2015 12:10 pm : link
Not complex at all. It was a mix between a Tampa 2 and cover 2. He had to make adjustments due to injury and talent.
Just a test  
Jay on the Island : 3/21/2015 12:12 pm : link
I was seeing if you were Jersey Joe back with yet another handle.
RE: Okie,  
okiegiant : 3/21/2015 12:14 pm : link
In comment 12196089 banks58 said:
Quote:
What did I ignore?


My friend, almost everything posted! That Manning finishing in the upper half of the league many times in many categories, the arm strength debunking...so many...I don't get it.

I don't think you wanted to actually discuss anything(benefit of the doubt and not saying what some posters have)I think you wanted to chunk your own opinions out(which is certainly okay but several of them are so wrong)and you were surprised when you were hit with factual responses.

If you have been here for awhile, as you state, you know how Manning threads go. I've seen this same thread a dozen times a year since 2004(well 2005, really)and it almost always ends the same way. Your opinions(which are okay)are not completely supported by the facts.

Manning isn't the best ever, but he is not awful. Tell me, what do you want from your QB(this was asked before and I don't believe answered)? If you want Brady. Rodgers , Luck, Elway or Montana...well there aren't many of those out there. If you want less of a cap hit, well so do I, but it is what it is. What do you want and where doesn't Manning meet your expectations?
Okie  
banks58 : 3/21/2015 12:44 pm : link
No agenda. That's what seems to keep getting missed on this thread. Everything I've said has been asking for opinion. You can see I how I got it!! Arm strength has been a major focus. I believe I said thank you to Dep and you saw the response I got.
RE: Okie  
dep026 : 3/21/2015 12:48 pm : link
In comment 12196144 banks58 said:
Quote:
No agenda. That's what seems to keep getting missed on this thread. Everything I've said has been asking for opinion. You can see I how I got it!! Arm strength has been a major focus. I believe I said thank you to Dep and you saw the response I got.


If you could admit that you have been wrong on a lot of areas, you would get more positive, worth while discussion. But you have dismissed just about everything thrown to you and come back with ridiculous personal stories that no one believes.
Okie  
banks58 : 3/21/2015 1:05 pm : link
Again, what have I dismissed? Honestly, is it that hard to answer? We had great posters in here before. Many have left for this very reason! What did I dismiss?
RE: RE: He's been in the top 3 cap hits in  
Thunderstruck27 : 3/21/2015 1:05 pm : link
In comment 12195751 Randy in CT said:
Quote:


You're a dumb cunt. Stop posting forever?


Damn Randy? Got sand in your clit this morning?
Okie  
banks58 : 3/21/2015 1:10 pm : link
Before you answer, the "stories" I shared are true. That's you 1st mistake!
RE: Okie  
okiegiant : 3/21/2015 1:22 pm : link
In comment 12196177 banks58 said:
Quote:
Before you answer, the "stories" I shared are true. That's you 1st mistake!


Okay...

Never seen a player more unfairly criticized  
OBJ_AllDay : 3/21/2015 4:23 pm : link
He is the best QB this franchise has ever had and when given the proper protection he is a surgical killer. He carried the team on his back in 2011. And to be fair he has never had really elite talent surrounding him. Nicks in his prime and OBJ now. A bunch of journeymen TE's and poor running game for nearly half of his career. also a bottom tier defense in 2011. His greatness will not be appreciated until we have a geno smith like successor.
Okie  
banks58 : 3/21/2015 4:56 pm : link
I owe you an apology on the personal stories subject. That was from Dep.
Sorry...
.  
mirwin : 3/22/2015 10:49 pm : link
if you really i mean really don think Eli is good or trust him enough hop off the Ryan Nassib fan club and join some shitty team with some one similar to nassib or better. I'm putting this down now nassib is no Jeff hostetler if he had to start the whole 2014 season in eli's shoes maybe we win 3 games. maybe. Im starting to hate nassib because of all of this "nassib should start over Eli" BS just stop it.
Some peole just like to talk to hear themselves talk.  
chillinman1183 : 3/22/2015 11:15 pm : link
That's all this is. Clearly this guy has no fucking clue who he's talking about,or what he's talking about. I dn't need to post any stats,or how hard he throws. You just make yourself seem less intelligent the more you speak. How many quarterbacks make that throw down the sideline to Manningham on a game winning drive in the superbowl. Definitely not you (Average) QB. Just look at how he's thrived in the postseason and nevermind all the other bullshit you listed to try and make your point,rather unsuccessfully I might add. You do not bleed blue by the way. No true Giants fan would even entertain this notion. I dn't care if you've been a member since 99 or 59,that proves absolutely nothing. By the way,YOU'RE AN IDIOT!!!
RE: He's been in the top 3 cap hits in  
bradshaw44 : 3/22/2015 11:54 pm : link
In comment 12195614 Thunderstruck27 said:
Quote:
2013,2014,and 2015

I'd have no problem with that if Eli led us to the playoffs in any of those years. The only thing he led was the NFL in turnovers.


I wonder what team you're a fan of. I'm gonna guess Dallas. You have an infatuation with our QB. Very understandable for a fan of a team that has Romo for a QB. All stats and no ring. GFY.
All on Eli  
chillinman1183 : 3/23/2015 7:15 am : link
Ya it's all on Eli that we haven't made the playoff the past 3 years. Here's another one who likes to hear himself breathe from the mouth. Haha... I can tell because you speak like a 12 year old trying to induce a response by questioning my loyalty. :)
Personally, even though he's older, I will wait a couple  
USAF NYG Fan : 3/23/2015 9:33 am : link
more years to pass complete judgement. Like many here I believe many of his interceptions can be attributed to the Gilbride system. Under just 1 year in this new system his interception rate dropped dramatically. He just had one of his best years and it's the first year in this new system.

Really hoping to see Eli's numbers with a healthy Cruz, Beckham, Vereen, etc this year.
there is no more judgement  
djm : 3/23/2015 10:58 am : link
Eli has done it twice. THat's all that fucking matters!

Eli could literally start the 2015 season by taking a big shit all over the field and never play another down and he'd still be a NYG legend. The judgement was reached in Feb 2008. And then it was reinforced in Feb 2012. Eli was is and always will be a football God for this NYG franchise.

IT's all about the super bowls. Eli closed the deal twice. LOL...TWICE!! And he's not done yet.

Any fan looking for more or questioning Eli's worth just lacks perspective. Simple as that.
that wasn't directed at USAF  
djm : 3/23/2015 11:15 am : link
as much as it was directed at the OP.

IT was exhausting having to defend Eli from 2005-2007 because the fans were relentless and refused to see any positives from Eli while expecting greatness from a young individual still ascending within a team dynamic that needed other players to ascend along with him in order for the team to reach greatness. The QB is the most important player but the whole team needs to play well. Some fans just can't wrap their head around this fact.

Eli was always unfairly bashed even during his lowest of lows. Most QBs get too much love or too much hate but with Eli it went way beyond the norm.

I won't lie I was never more emotionally invested in a player's fortunes than Eli. I went out of my way to defend him and always loved how Eli carried himself here in NY. As he went, I went. I might have even been a little too loyal or subjective --I can admit that now. I probably defended him at times when he did deserve some criticism. But once Eli and the Giants won super bowl 42 it was like a weight was lifted off my shoulders..I just didn't care anymore when fans got on him--and for a year or so no one said a word. Then he wins it all again in 2011...and now I just find these kinds of threads laughable. None of this shit matters anymore. Eli defenders shouldn't let this shit get to them...these people getting all analytical and critical and "honest" just don't get it. Let them critique the guy's game. Ten years from now these same apes will be waxing poetic about Eli and bashing the new QB. IT's what they do...they observe from a warped perspective and use stats to support their flawed logic. And you know what they say about stats.

Stats are a somewhat fair and logical way to analyze a player's worth but in the end you go by the pelts. You go by what that player brought to the franchise. Eli brought EVERYTHING to this franchise. He enabled apes like you and I to sit at a poker table and laugh when the Niner or Dallas or Eagle or Skins or Jets or Pats fan tries to talk shit. Nothing tops that.
and if you're gonna sit here  
djm : 3/23/2015 11:24 am : link
and guarantee that 10 other QBs would have come in here from 2005 through 2014 and won MORE than one super bowl...well...we agree to disagree.

Maybe a guy like Tony Romo lights up the stat sheets here if he's a Giant all these years. I don't doubt that he does. The guy can play. I don't doubt that Romo, thanks in part to his own gifted skill set, maybe even leads the Giants to more postseasons and more regular season success than Eli did in the same time line. I can't dismiss Romo's abilities nor should anyone else. Maybe Romo wins more playoff games here than Eli's 8. Again, anything is possible.

But to sit here and proclaim with even a hint of certainty that Romo or Rivers or Ben or even Aaron Fucking Rodgers or Tom fucking BRady would win ONE, let alone TWO super bowls is completely laughable. Winning the super bowl is akin to winning the lottery. So much luck and timimg is involved. Romo may get hurt in a playoff run--Rivers may not connect on that critical pass in a playoff game...maybe Big Ben is in jail if he's a QB in this area....maybe Brady never is Tom Brady without the comfy confines of New England. Who the fuck knows. Every team sport is predicated on luck, timing, karma and talent. Some of the best players ever didn't win a title because the winds of karma blew the wrong way at just the wrong time.

Eli was the karma. If you can't see it, then I feel sorry for you.
banks58  
Les in TO : 3/23/2015 11:24 am : link
Eli is clutch/has ice in his veins - it means he can step up in the biggest moments, but it also means he will assume too much risk at times and make poor decisions and throws. he is also a QB that tends to warm up as the game goes on as he gets into the flow, more of a strong finisher/slow starter.
RE: banks58  
Britt in VA : 3/23/2015 11:26 am : link
In comment 12198845 Les in TO said:
Quote:
Eli is clutch/has ice in his veins - it means he can step up in the biggest moments, but it also means he will assume too much risk at times and make poor decisions and throws. he is also a QB that tends to warm up as the game goes on as he gets into the flow, more of a strong finisher/slow starter.


I think this is also a testament to his film study, adjusting to what the defense is giving him as the game goes on.
Eli is better than average;less than elite  
Giant Blue : 3/23/2015 12:21 pm : link
Just to qualify myself,I have been a avid Giant fan since 1958.Sometimes,fans get caught up in loyalty and sometimes they are hypercritical.You know the half full/half empty syndrome.
I will forever be greatful to Eli for his ROLE in two Super Bowl victories.I have never seen Eli as elite.To be elite ,a quarterback,must be able to carry a team on his back time and time again.Eli has never been able to do that.What Eli is is a very important piece of the puzzle,that turned two rather average teams into Super Bowl winners.
To truly assess Eli's standing in the hierarchy of NFL QB's,one must look at what the out of towners think of Eli.Although nobody is 100% objective,the national sportscasters and writers gives us the best chance at objectivity.
Eli is perceived by the national media and out of town fans as inconsistent,running hot and cold,another words rather average.I am sorry to upset those fans who wear BLUE colored glasses ,but those are the facts.
Eli wasn't elite in 2011  
dep026 : 3/23/2015 12:25 pm : link
And didn't carry the team on his back. Really? Thrn show me a qb who did.
RE: Eli is better than average;less than elite  
Randy in CT : 3/23/2015 12:30 pm : link
In comment 12199021 Giant Blue said:
Quote:
Just to qualify myself,I have been a avid Giant fan since 1958.Sometimes,fans get caught up in loyalty and sometimes they are hypercritical.You know the half full/half empty syndrome.
I will forever be greatful to Eli for his ROLE in two Super Bowl victories.I have never seen Eli as elite.To be elite ,a quarterback,must be able to carry a team on his back time and time again.Eli has never been able to do that.What Eli is is a very important piece of the puzzle,that turned two rather average teams into Super Bowl winners.
To truly assess Eli's standing in the hierarchy of NFL QB's,one must look at what the out of towners think of Eli.Although nobody is 100% objective,the national sportscasters and writers gives us the best chance at objectivity.
Eli is perceived by the national media and out of town fans as inconsistent,running hot and cold,another words rather average.I am sorry to upset those fans who wear BLUE colored glasses ,but those are the facts.
Amazing that a fan of this team for so long, has a glass is empty view of the Qb that brought him 2 SBs so far. I'm not going to try to convince you nor the assmonkey/troll thread starter about Eli's value to the team. Nor will I argue about a subjective term like "elite".
Eli is a top 10-15 QB  
JonC : 3/23/2015 12:37 pm : link
When he's on he's capable of getting white hot, and has won it all twice. The NFL is a bit watered down over the past ten years, but he's still one of how many SB winners?

When his pass blocking stinks, then his decision making, his mechanics, eye level, and overall performance often all go to hell. He's human.
Here's an exercise  
JonC : 3/23/2015 12:41 pm : link
list the QBs you think are clearly superior to Eli.

I fully recognize Eli's warts, but you'll be hard pressed to list ten QBs superior to him.
RE: Eli is a top 10-15 QB  
dep026 : 3/23/2015 12:43 pm : link
In comment 12199060 JonC said:
Quote:
When he's on he's capable of getting white hot, and has won it all twice. The NFL is a bit watered down over the past ten years, but he's still one of how many SB winners?

When his pass blocking stinks, then his decision making, his mechanics, eye level, and overall performance often all go to hell. He's human.


Going into next year, there are only 3 QBs who I am comfortable in saying that will be flat out better than him:
Rodgers, Luck, Brady

Now there are lot of other QBs like Peyton, Brees, Rivers, Romo, Ben, Ryan, WIlson that can absolutely have better years than him but htey all have question marks.

Is Peyton healthy?
Brees supporting cast?
Romo losing Murray
Rivers supporting cast
Wilson's next step of improvement
Ryan not sucking in big games

I think the top 3 will establish themselves clearly as the best, but there is no reason why Eli cant play like a top 5 QB in the league still. I bet he plays closer to 5 than 15 this year, but you never know.
He's in the second tier of QBs  
BeerFridge : 3/23/2015 12:50 pm : link
But seriously, if you think he can't carry a team, just revisit the NFC championship game against the Niners in 2012. Eli had a heroic performance on a day where they couldn't run at all and he was under attack all day. 58 pass attempts that day.

He may always look like a dork and be totally uncoordinated but he is a true champ when the game is on the line and is super clutch.
Link - ( New Window )
RE: Eli is better than average;less than elite  
Boatie Warrant : 3/23/2015 12:56 pm : link
In comment 12199021 Giant Blue said:
Quote:
Just to qualify myself,I have been a avid Giant fan since 1958.Sometimes,fans get caught up in loyalty and sometimes they are hypercritical.You know the half full/half empty syndrome.
I will forever be greatful to Eli for his ROLE in two Super Bowl victories.I have never seen Eli as elite.To be elite ,a quarterback,must be able to carry a team on his back time and time again.Eli has never been able to do that.What Eli is is a very important piece of the puzzle,that turned two rather average teams into Super Bowl winners.
To truly assess Eli's standing in the hierarchy of NFL QB's,one must look at what the out of towners think of Eli.Although nobody is 100% objective,the national sportscasters and writers gives us the best chance at objectivity.
Eli is perceived by the national media and out of town fans as inconsistent,running hot and cold,another words rather average.I am sorry to upset those fans who wear BLUE colored glasses ,but those are the facts.


The FACTS also indicate that ELI carried this team when it mattered most. Just look at where our Defense and running games ranked when we won the superbowls.

Another fact is only 2 players had better stats without Eli than with him. That shows Eli elevates the level of play of those around him.
I think it's pretty clear at this juncture that the previous offense  
Coach Mason : 3/23/2015 12:58 pm : link
Was not QB-friendly in the least.

Eli with arguably less on the OL and at receiver collectively than most years in the TC regime AND a half-season learning curve with the new offense ended up with the second best season of his career.

I don't think the previous O allowed us to see what Eli is capable of especially statistic wise.

If he stays healthy and the offense has close to the overall talent of previous years, I am confident that his numbers would begin to resemble the top Qbs in the league.
RE: RE: banks58  
Les in TO : 3/23/2015 1:18 pm : link
In comment 12198850 Britt in VA said:
Quote:
In comment 12198845 Les in TO said:


Quote:


Eli is clutch/has ice in his veins - it means he can step up in the biggest moments, but it also means he will assume too much risk at times and make poor decisions and throws. he is also a QB that tends to warm up as the game goes on as he gets into the flow, more of a strong finisher/slow starter.



I think this is also a testament to his film study, adjusting to what the defense is giving him as the game goes on.
agreed. and i think with mcadoo calling the plays, we may see stronger starts next year.
RE: Here's an exercise  
Les in TO : 3/23/2015 1:27 pm : link
In comment 12199072 JonC said:
Quote:
list the QBs you think are clearly superior to Eli.

I fully recognize Eli's warts, but you'll be hard pressed to list ten QBs superior to him.


elite: brady, rogers, peyton and luck
next level: big ben, rivers, brees and eli
Out of towners and sportscasters  
chillinman1183 : 3/23/2015 3:07 pm : link
I hate to say it but what any of them carries very littlw weight because all most of them judge eli by is highlights or lowlights on sportscenter and NFL network. Just like the draft every year. most go on by what the experts say instead of actually watching and developing there own opinion. As for Eli not carrying the team onhis back at certain times thoughout his career,well that's just a falicy. He may not have carried them to a winning record,playoff,or superbowl year in and year out,but who does. Name one QB that has!?! his #'s in the postseason and the 2 biggest games of his career,wich he just happened to win MVP in by the way,says it all. HOw many QB's make that throw down the sideline between 2 defenders in the 4th quarter of the game winning drive in a superbowl? Not just any average to above average QB. That was Quite possibly the greatest throw and catch I've ever seen. I can't remember any better so I'm assuming it was. These are just some of the defining moments of Mannings career,and he's not done yet. You say your an avid Giants fan since 58?! Reading your statement I think qualifies you as an avid ameteaur at best. I think instead of listening to what others say you should probably go back, watch some of these games over again,as you are alot older and probably to senile to remember the poise and greatness he showed in these moments. Here's a few playoff games to rewatch. Against Dallas,Tampa,Greenbay,Sanfransisco,and both Superbowls. Then once you have given it some thought yourself instead of repeating what others say,then we can talk.
RE: RE: Here's an exercise  
Britt in VA : 3/23/2015 3:26 pm : link
In comment 12199214 Les in TO said:
Quote:
In comment 12199072 JonC said:


Quote:


list the QBs you think are clearly superior to Eli.

I fully recognize Eli's warts, but you'll be hard pressed to list ten QBs superior to him.



elite: brady, rogers, peyton and luck
next level: big ben, rivers, brees and eli


I agree with this although it's interesting to see Drew Brees drop out of the top tier (which I agree with).
Les  
JonC : 3/23/2015 3:28 pm : link
yep, 8-10 is where I'd consistently put Eli.
I'd gander Eli would be somewhere top 5  
Coach Mason : 3/23/2015 4:48 pm : link
if he played in a similar system to the one he's in now throughout his career
RE: Out of towners and sportscasters  
Giant Blue : 3/23/2015 5:13 pm : link
In comment 12199436 chillinman1183 said:
Quote:
I hate to say it but what any of them carries very littlw weight because all most of them judge eli by is highlights or lowlights on sportscenter and NFL network. Just like the draft every year. most go on by what the experts say instead of actually watching and developing there own opinion. As for Eli not carrying the team onhis back at certain times thoughout his career,well that's just a falicy. He may not have carried them to a winning record,playoff,or superbowl year in and year out,but who does. Name one QB that has!?! his #'s in the postseason and the 2 biggest games of his career,wich he just happened to win MVP in by the way,says it all. HOw many QB's make that throw down the sideline between 2 defenders in the 4th quarter of the game winning drive in a superbowl? Not just any average to above average QB. That was Quite possibly the greatest throw and catch I've ever seen. I can't remember any better so I'm assuming it was. These are just some of the defining moments of Mannings career,and he's not done yet. You say your an avid Giants fan since 58?! Reading your statement I think qualifies you as an avid ameteaur at best. I think instead of listening to what others say you should probably go back, watch some of these games over again,as you are alot older and probably to senile to remember the poise and greatness he showed in these moments. Here's a few playoff games to rewatch. Against Dallas,Tampa,Greenbay,Sanfransisco,and both Superbowls. Then once you have given it some thought yourself instead of repeating what others say,then we can talk.


Dear Sir,
First of all I am not senile,and ,although tempted will not throw insults back.
My comment to the originator of the thread,who asked how good is ELI, was,I responded by saying,Eli cannot carry the team TIME AND TIME AGAIN.He had an incredible run pulling out the Dallas game.He controlled the Tampa game.He was magnificant against Green Bay and was a warrior against S.F. especially being slammed over and over again.In S.B.46 he made one of the most incredible throws ever to Manningham.In S.B.42 Eli got EXTREMELY lucky throwing up the duck and Tyree came down with it.
Those events were awesome to watch and reminise(sp),but they were in 2007 and 2011.My point is I love the two super bowls,but other than those,there has been NO CONSISTENCY to an 11 year career.
The reason I speak of listening to the opinions of non-bias national media is we have no credibility.We are bias.It is like the parents who watch their supposed superstar kids play at any level;they cannot be objective.
The Giants have been my kids for a long time.I have suffered with their failures and relished in their victories and I know I am not always objective about "my children" Although,I love them I listen to folks who do not wear Blue colored glasses.
I conclude by saying,"If you are a Giant fan ,you are my brother and hope to see you again at another Super Bowl victory parade" BTW the parade in 2012 was one of the sweetest days I can remember.
RE: By the way  
JOrthman : 3/23/2015 6:55 pm : link
In comment 12195706 Boatie Warrant said:
Quote:
How many players played better without Eli than with him?

Only two guys that I am aware of. Visanthe Shiancoe and Martellus Bennett, just so you don't have to look it up. Tell me again how Eli is not a leader............


And even those aren't very accurate. MB was good with Eli, but Eli only had one season with him. VS never played much with Eli, which has less to do with Eli and more to do with the coaching staff.
No consistency from Eli  
chillinman1183 : 3/24/2015 12:07 pm : link
Once again you are incorrect. In 2013 He had no supporting cast around him no did he,especially after nicks was injured and Victor cruz was being doubled and triple teamed. No running game whatsoever. Guys like Andre Brown.Peyton Hillis,and Brandon Jacobs in the backfield. 2 hasbeens and a never was. Plus as Mara stated,he was playing in a broken offense,wich subsequently forced Gilbride into retirement. Last year in a new Offense with not much of a supporting cast once again he had one of his finest seasons,and I only expect him to improve in year 2. I know my team well and the players on it. I have a good grasp on the game of football as well,obviously much better than yourself. You keep saying you love listening to the national media and fans of other teams.Obviously this is what your opinions are based on,because if you knew as much about football as what you think then after actually watching Eli develop over the past 11 seasons your conclusion and opinion of him would be dramatically different. I dn't care if you proclaim yourself a life long Giants fan or not,in my own opinion,wich is a conclusion of come to of my independent thought,you sir are not a real Giants fan. Not a true Giants fan anyway. You may have been a fan of football since 58 but it's very clear you have no idea how to evaluate players or talent. You don't make a decision about any player based off what the Media and other fans (say). Most of these people base there opinion around what they see and hear on sportscenter and NFL network,or (LISTENING TO WHAT OTHER PEOPLE SAY)... It's extremely difficult to remain consistent when there's no consistency around you,wich is exactly what's happened to Eli over the past few seasons. When he has had the support around him,and consistency,he has been very consistent. Leading them to the playoffs,championship games,and 2 superbowl titles. Now that he has some pieces around him on offense once again.If everyone comes back healthy and stays that way!?!You'll see the type of player Eli really is and we'll revisit this conversation at the same time next year. You can admit how wrong you truly were!! That is if you are capable of developing unique independent thought on your own?! If not just flip on NFL network or ESPN so you can repeat what they're saying.
RE: No consistency from Eli  
Giant Blue : 3/24/2015 12:40 pm : link
In comment 12200667 chillinman1183 said:
Quote:
Once again you are incorrect. In 2013 He had no supporting cast around him no did he,especially after nicks was injured and Victor cruz was being doubled and triple teamed. No running game whatsoever. Guys like Andre Brown.Peyton Hillis,and Brandon Jacobs in the backfield. 2 hasbeens and a never was. Plus as Mara stated,he was playing in a broken offense,wich subsequently forced Gilbride into retirement. Last year in a new Offense with not much of a supporting cast once again he had one of his finest seasons,and I only expect him to improve in year 2. I know my team well and the players on it. I have a good grasp on the game of football as well,obviously much better than yourself. You keep saying you love listening to the national media and fans of other teams.Obviously this is what your opinions are based on,because if you knew as much about football as what you think then after actually watching Eli develop over the past 11 seasons your conclusion and opinion of him would be dramatically different. I dn't care if you proclaim yourself a life long Giants fan or not,in my own opinion,wich is a conclusion of come to of my independent thought,you sir are not a real Giants fan. Not a true Giants fan anyway. You may have been a fan of football since 58 but it's very clear you have no idea how to evaluate players or talent. You don't make a decision about any player based off what the Media and other fans (say). Most of these people base there opinion around what they see and hear on sportscenter and NFL network,or (LISTENING TO WHAT OTHER PEOPLE SAY)... It's extremely difficult to remain consistent when there's no consistency around you,wich is exactly what's happened to Eli over the past few seasons. When he has had the support around him,and consistency,he has been very consistent. Leading them to the playoffs,championship games,and 2 superbowl titles. Now that he has some pieces around him on offense once again.If everyone comes back healthy and stays that way!?!You'll see the type of player Eli really is and we'll revisit this conversation at the same time next year. You can admit how wrong you truly were!! That is if you are capable of developing unique independent thought on your own?! If not just flip on NFL network or ESPN so you can repeat what they're saying.


Sir,

First of all you sound like a very angry person and maybe therapy would help.Secondly,I love MY Giants.I have watched almost every game since the late fifties and as you SHOULD know,everyone can look at a game and see different things.Hence,the blue colored glasses become I very pertinent point.You,sir are a fool ,if you think I derive ALL of my opinions from National media.Every bit of data comes into play when deriving an opinion.A rational person draws from all sources.You,sir are obviously,not a rational person.I find it,particularly,interesting that you are hoping I will eat my words when we revisit this after Eli has a great year.SIR,I am totally with you on this.I want Eli to be successful.There's an old saying ,"Would you rather be right or happy"I would much rather Eli kicks the tar out of the league,than watch in anguish,week in and week out. Unfortunately,your perception of me,because I am critical of Eli,is I am not a true fan or knowledgeable.I am so very sorry for you that you only see what you want to see. I am also,very happy for you that your mom still lets you live in the basement apartment.
You (Sir) are a pompus ass. Haha...  
chillinman1183 : 3/24/2015 4:01 pm : link
Not angry at all,very happily married with a 2 and a half year old daughter,in a very nice/expensive condo. :) I just simply )believe everything you've stated in your previous post couldn't be more off target. You stated above in one of your earlier post that you strongly consider what the media thinks and other fans. Now that I've called you on your shit you back peddle. It's not that I'm angry I just hate it when people babble on when they haven't a clue what they are talking about.
RE: You (Sir) are a pompus ass. Haha...  
Giant Blue : 3/24/2015 6:21 pm : link
In comment 12201301 chillinman1183 said:
[quote] Not angry at all,very happily married with a 2 and a half year old daughter,in a very nice/expensive condo. :) I just simply )believe everything you've stated in your previous post couldn't be more off target. You stated above in one of your earlier post that you strongly consider what the media thinks and other fans. Now that I've called you on your shit you back peddle. It's not that I'm angry I just hate it when people babble on when they haven't a clue what they are talking about. [/quote

I QUIT!!!



good enough to win at least 2 super bowls  
RasputinPrime : 3/24/2015 7:48 pm : link
that makes him a HOF QB in my book.
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