2 Super Bowls is the 1st thing that comes to my mind. However, when thinking about it, I'm most impressed with his durability. He's definitely proven he can play through pain and injury. He's cerebral and puts in the work including the off season. He's not a "leader" but is described by his team mates as someone who bonds with them usually as a practical joker.
He fits the Giants fan base as a perfect role model and well liked by management in that regard. A perfect face for any team. His press conferences like "most" QB's are something any of us could predict what's going to be said.
Peel back the rind and look at stats and it's not pretty. We have a pocket passer with little to no mobility. A propensity to throw I'll timed INT's and accuracy is questionable. He's in the bottom 1/4 of the league in terms of arm strength(ball velocity) and that contributes in my option to more INT's.
In a nutshell, everything you want from a PR perspective, but not what I'm looking for in a QB. Numbers don't lie!
Curious what I missed, and your thoughts?
I went to camp and provided reports along with Marty. I met many BBI members when they had their get together in Albany. HopeJ and Bob in Annapolis were great and missed. Eric is enjoyable to have conversation and I gave my donation in cash when I saw him. Lay off the dupe topic.
I have noticed most of the people I met no longer post or have decided it's not worth it. SOTI....remember him? Yeah, gone! The only remaining posters are bb56,Eric,Britt in Va and George in Manhattan. Once in awhile gidiefor will come on.
My topic was simply asking for your thoughts. It turned into a pissing match. Ask 5 fans that root for different teams there thoughts about Eli? See what you get. I have no agenda. I was curious asking on a Giants forum. Is that wrong now? If also invite you to re-read my original post.
Peel back the rind and look at stats and it's not pretty. We have a pocket passer with little to no mobility. A propensity to throw I'll timed INT's and accuracy is questionable. He's in the bottom 1/4 of the league in terms of arm strength(ball velocity) and that contributes in my option to more INT's.
In a nutshell, everything you want from a PR perspective, but not what I'm looking for in a QB. Numbers don't lie!
Let me break it down for you.
1. He isnt a "leader". Now how are you going to be put in a position where YOU can make that claim. Based off what? Tiki barber about 10 years ago? Every report said Eli is a leader in the locker room, is one of the hardest working Giants, and works constantly to get better.
2. He has no mobility. About 10 posters have said his mobility in the pocket is one of his greatest strengths. Most pundits have it one of the best in the league. No, he isnt going to scramble for 15-20 yards, he isnt like Romo who just runs around in the backfield. But he is excellent and finding the lane he needs to throw too.
3. He throws ill-timed INTs. I'll give you that one.
4. Arm strength being in the bottom 1/4th. Well first, how do you know? Did you measure every single QBs arm in the league? Next, who cares if it was. His arm is certainly stronger than Peytons, and he has done ok in his career. Same with Matt Ryan and Philip Rivers. Refer back to my Jeff George analogy as why it doesnt matter hwo strong your arm is. Jamarcus Russell had a fantastic arm, where is he now?
5. His stats. I slaready showed you how he has ranked in the top 10 in the NFL in yards, attempts, completions, and TDs for the majority of his career. You wanted him in the upper half, well he is even better than that. He is in the top 10.
So again, lot of your original post is speculation on your part, not backed up by facts or statistics. And when a poster shows you when you are wrong, you ignore them or basically flat out say they are wrong, even when backed up. You didnt want to start a discussion, you would looking to stir the pot, and failed miserably. Now for the sake of the board.... admit you were wrong and/or ignorant and move along. You have embarrassed yourself enough on this thread.
2) mobility can't be put into a stat. Romo creates plays and Big Ben is hard to take down. Eli leads in turnovers trying to get rid of the ball when he has scrambled. Fumbles need to enter that conversation too.
3) we're in agreement.
4) stats. I think that goes back to durability and playing from behind, no? An all time list of what he's done has to be put into context of today's NFL. It's also the reason I posed the original question. You were kind enough to provide the info....thank you! Why you added smug remarks is on you.
5) you said this thread would get no traction. Aside from talking about McDonalds, It seems to have plenty of hits for responses. Would you like to discuss a bigmac on a Giants forum?
Bottom line is I looked for a discussion about Giants football and have had little success in proving to others how good a player Eli is when speaking with fans if it her teams. You gave me a good list if things to discuss. Thank you....
Also, please acknowledge many posters have presented stats and other opinions you have chosen to ignore.
Also, I would be shocked if Mara ever said Manning wasn't a leader in public.
2) mobility can't be put into a stat. Romo creates plays and Big Ben is hard to take down. Eli leads in turnovers trying to get rid of the ball when he has scrambled. Fumbles need to enter that conversation too.
3) we're in agreement.
4) stats. I think that goes back to durability and playing from behind, no? An all time list of what he's done has to be put into context of today's NFL. It's also the reason I posed the original question. You were kind enough to provide the info....thank you! Why you added smug remarks is on you.
5) you said this thread would get no traction. Aside from talking about McDonalds, It seems to have plenty of hits for responses. Would you like to discuss a bigmac on a Giants forum?
Bottom line is I looked for a discussion about Giants football and have had little success in proving to others how good a player Eli is when speaking with fans if it her teams. You gave me a good list if things to discuss. Thank you....
To be quite frank, I think you are full of shit and dont know your ass from a football.
Just an absolutely pathetic thread from a previous banned poster.
My friend, almost everything posted! That Manning finishing in the upper half of the league many times in many categories, the arm strength debunking...so many...I don't get it.
I don't think you wanted to actually discuss anything(benefit of the doubt and not saying what some posters have)I think you wanted to chunk your own opinions out(which is certainly okay but several of them are so wrong)and you were surprised when you were hit with factual responses.
If you have been here for awhile, as you state, you know how Manning threads go. I've seen this same thread a dozen times a year since 2004(well 2005, really)and it almost always ends the same way. Your opinions(which are okay)are not completely supported by the facts.
Manning isn't the best ever, but he is not awful. Tell me, what do you want from your QB(this was asked before and I don't believe answered)? If you want Brady. Rodgers , Luck, Elway or Montana...well there aren't many of those out there. If you want less of a cap hit, well so do I, but it is what it is. What do you want and where doesn't Manning meet your expectations?
If you could admit that you have been wrong on a lot of areas, you would get more positive, worth while discussion. But you have dismissed just about everything thrown to you and come back with ridiculous personal stories that no one believes.
You're a dumb cunt. Stop posting forever?
Damn Randy? Got sand in your clit this morning?
Okay...
Sorry...
I'd have no problem with that if Eli led us to the playoffs in any of those years. The only thing he led was the NFL in turnovers.
I wonder what team you're a fan of. I'm gonna guess Dallas. You have an infatuation with our QB. Very understandable for a fan of a team that has Romo for a QB. All stats and no ring. GFY.
Really hoping to see Eli's numbers with a healthy Cruz, Beckham, Vereen, etc this year.
Eli could literally start the 2015 season by taking a big shit all over the field and never play another down and he'd still be a NYG legend. The judgement was reached in Feb 2008. And then it was reinforced in Feb 2012. Eli was is and always will be a football God for this NYG franchise.
IT's all about the super bowls. Eli closed the deal twice. LOL...TWICE!! And he's not done yet.
Any fan looking for more or questioning Eli's worth just lacks perspective. Simple as that.
IT was exhausting having to defend Eli from 2005-2007 because the fans were relentless and refused to see any positives from Eli while expecting greatness from a young individual still ascending within a team dynamic that needed other players to ascend along with him in order for the team to reach greatness. The QB is the most important player but the whole team needs to play well. Some fans just can't wrap their head around this fact.
Eli was always unfairly bashed even during his lowest of lows. Most QBs get too much love or too much hate but with Eli it went way beyond the norm.
I won't lie I was never more emotionally invested in a player's fortunes than Eli. I went out of my way to defend him and always loved how Eli carried himself here in NY. As he went, I went. I might have even been a little too loyal or subjective --I can admit that now. I probably defended him at times when he did deserve some criticism. But once Eli and the Giants won super bowl 42 it was like a weight was lifted off my shoulders..I just didn't care anymore when fans got on him--and for a year or so no one said a word. Then he wins it all again in 2011...and now I just find these kinds of threads laughable. None of this shit matters anymore. Eli defenders shouldn't let this shit get to them...these people getting all analytical and critical and "honest" just don't get it. Let them critique the guy's game. Ten years from now these same apes will be waxing poetic about Eli and bashing the new QB. IT's what they do...they observe from a warped perspective and use stats to support their flawed logic. And you know what they say about stats.
Stats are a somewhat fair and logical way to analyze a player's worth but in the end you go by the pelts. You go by what that player brought to the franchise. Eli brought EVERYTHING to this franchise. He enabled apes like you and I to sit at a poker table and laugh when the Niner or Dallas or Eagle or Skins or Jets or Pats fan tries to talk shit. Nothing tops that.
Maybe a guy like Tony Romo lights up the stat sheets here if he's a Giant all these years. I don't doubt that he does. The guy can play. I don't doubt that Romo, thanks in part to his own gifted skill set, maybe even leads the Giants to more postseasons and more regular season success than Eli did in the same time line. I can't dismiss Romo's abilities nor should anyone else. Maybe Romo wins more playoff games here than Eli's 8. Again, anything is possible.
But to sit here and proclaim with even a hint of certainty that Romo or Rivers or Ben or even Aaron Fucking Rodgers or Tom fucking BRady would win ONE, let alone TWO super bowls is completely laughable. Winning the super bowl is akin to winning the lottery. So much luck and timimg is involved. Romo may get hurt in a playoff run--Rivers may not connect on that critical pass in a playoff game...maybe Big Ben is in jail if he's a QB in this area....maybe Brady never is Tom Brady without the comfy confines of New England. Who the fuck knows. Every team sport is predicated on luck, timing, karma and talent. Some of the best players ever didn't win a title because the winds of karma blew the wrong way at just the wrong time.
Eli was the karma. If you can't see it, then I feel sorry for you.
I think this is also a testament to his film study, adjusting to what the defense is giving him as the game goes on.
I will forever be greatful to Eli for his ROLE in two Super Bowl victories.I have never seen Eli as elite.To be elite ,a quarterback,must be able to carry a team on his back time and time again.Eli has never been able to do that.What Eli is is a very important piece of the puzzle,that turned two rather average teams into Super Bowl winners.
To truly assess Eli's standing in the hierarchy of NFL QB's,one must look at what the out of towners think of Eli.Although nobody is 100% objective,the national sportscasters and writers gives us the best chance at objectivity.
Eli is perceived by the national media and out of town fans as inconsistent,running hot and cold,another words rather average.I am sorry to upset those fans who wear BLUE colored glasses ,but those are the facts.
I will forever be greatful to Eli for his ROLE in two Super Bowl victories.I have never seen Eli as elite.To be elite ,a quarterback,must be able to carry a team on his back time and time again.Eli has never been able to do that.What Eli is is a very important piece of the puzzle,that turned two rather average teams into Super Bowl winners.
To truly assess Eli's standing in the hierarchy of NFL QB's,one must look at what the out of towners think of Eli.Although nobody is 100% objective,the national sportscasters and writers gives us the best chance at objectivity.
Eli is perceived by the national media and out of town fans as inconsistent,running hot and cold,another words rather average.I am sorry to upset those fans who wear BLUE colored glasses ,but those are the facts.
When his pass blocking stinks, then his decision making, his mechanics, eye level, and overall performance often all go to hell. He's human.
I fully recognize Eli's warts, but you'll be hard pressed to list ten QBs superior to him.
When his pass blocking stinks, then his decision making, his mechanics, eye level, and overall performance often all go to hell. He's human.
Going into next year, there are only 3 QBs who I am comfortable in saying that will be flat out better than him:
Rodgers, Luck, Brady
Now there are lot of other QBs like Peyton, Brees, Rivers, Romo, Ben, Ryan, WIlson that can absolutely have better years than him but htey all have question marks.
Is Peyton healthy?
Brees supporting cast?
Romo losing Murray
Rivers supporting cast
Wilson's next step of improvement
Ryan not sucking in big games
I think the top 3 will establish themselves clearly as the best, but there is no reason why Eli cant play like a top 5 QB in the league still. I bet he plays closer to 5 than 15 this year, but you never know.
He may always look like a dork and be totally uncoordinated but he is a true champ when the game is on the line and is super clutch.
Link - ( New Window )
I will forever be greatful to Eli for his ROLE in two Super Bowl victories.I have never seen Eli as elite.To be elite ,a quarterback,must be able to carry a team on his back time and time again.Eli has never been able to do that.What Eli is is a very important piece of the puzzle,that turned two rather average teams into Super Bowl winners.
To truly assess Eli's standing in the hierarchy of NFL QB's,one must look at what the out of towners think of Eli.Although nobody is 100% objective,the national sportscasters and writers gives us the best chance at objectivity.
Eli is perceived by the national media and out of town fans as inconsistent,running hot and cold,another words rather average.I am sorry to upset those fans who wear BLUE colored glasses ,but those are the facts.
The FACTS also indicate that ELI carried this team when it mattered most. Just look at where our Defense and running games ranked when we won the superbowls.
Another fact is only 2 players had better stats without Eli than with him. That shows Eli elevates the level of play of those around him.
Eli with arguably less on the OL and at receiver collectively than most years in the TC regime AND a half-season learning curve with the new offense ended up with the second best season of his career.
I don't think the previous O allowed us to see what Eli is capable of especially statistic wise.
If he stays healthy and the offense has close to the overall talent of previous years, I am confident that his numbers would begin to resemble the top Qbs in the league.
Quote:
Eli is clutch/has ice in his veins - it means he can step up in the biggest moments, but it also means he will assume too much risk at times and make poor decisions and throws. he is also a QB that tends to warm up as the game goes on as he gets into the flow, more of a strong finisher/slow starter.
I think this is also a testament to his film study, adjusting to what the defense is giving him as the game goes on.
I fully recognize Eli's warts, but you'll be hard pressed to list ten QBs superior to him.
elite: brady, rogers, peyton and luck
next level: big ben, rivers, brees and eli
Quote:
list the QBs you think are clearly superior to Eli.
I fully recognize Eli's warts, but you'll be hard pressed to list ten QBs superior to him.
elite: brady, rogers, peyton and luck
next level: big ben, rivers, brees and eli
I agree with this although it's interesting to see Drew Brees drop out of the top tier (which I agree with).
Dear Sir,
First of all I am not senile,and ,although tempted will not throw insults back.
My comment to the originator of the thread,who asked how good is ELI, was,I responded by saying,Eli cannot carry the team TIME AND TIME AGAIN.He had an incredible run pulling out the Dallas game.He controlled the Tampa game.He was magnificant against Green Bay and was a warrior against S.F. especially being slammed over and over again.In S.B.46 he made one of the most incredible throws ever to Manningham.In S.B.42 Eli got EXTREMELY lucky throwing up the duck and Tyree came down with it.
Those events were awesome to watch and reminise(sp),but they were in 2007 and 2011.My point is I love the two super bowls,but other than those,there has been NO CONSISTENCY to an 11 year career.
The reason I speak of listening to the opinions of non-bias national media is we have no credibility.We are bias.It is like the parents who watch their supposed superstar kids play at any level;they cannot be objective.
The Giants have been my kids for a long time.I have suffered with their failures and relished in their victories and I know I am not always objective about "my children" Although,I love them I listen to folks who do not wear Blue colored glasses.
I conclude by saying,"If you are a Giant fan ,you are my brother and hope to see you again at another Super Bowl victory parade" BTW the parade in 2012 was one of the sweetest days I can remember.
Only two guys that I am aware of. Visanthe Shiancoe and Martellus Bennett, just so you don't have to look it up. Tell me again how Eli is not a leader............
And even those aren't very accurate. MB was good with Eli, but Eli only had one season with him. VS never played much with Eli, which has less to do with Eli and more to do with the coaching staff.
Sir,
First of all you sound like a very angry person and maybe therapy would help.Secondly,I love MY Giants.I have watched almost every game since the late fifties and as you SHOULD know,everyone can look at a game and see different things.Hence,the blue colored glasses become I very pertinent point.You,sir are a fool ,if you think I derive ALL of my opinions from National media.Every bit of data comes into play when deriving an opinion.A rational person draws from all sources.You,sir are obviously,not a rational person.I find it,particularly,interesting that you are hoping I will eat my words when we revisit this after Eli has a great year.SIR,I am totally with you on this.I want Eli to be successful.There's an old saying ,"Would you rather be right or happy"I would much rather Eli kicks the tar out of the league,than watch in anguish,week in and week out. Unfortunately,your perception of me,because I am critical of Eli,is I am not a true fan or knowledgeable.I am so very sorry for you that you only see what you want to see. I am also,very happy for you that your mom still lets you live in the basement apartment.
[quote] Not angry at all,very happily married with a 2 and a half year old daughter,in a very nice/expensive condo. :) I just simply )believe everything you've stated in your previous post couldn't be more off target. You stated above in one of your earlier post that you strongly consider what the media thinks and other fans. Now that I've called you on your shit you back peddle. It's not that I'm angry I just hate it when people babble on when they haven't a clue what they are talking about. [/quote
I QUIT!!!