How good is Eli?

did you determine this?

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He's in the bottom 1/4 of the league in terms of arm strength(ball velocity)

F
U
C
K

Eli is at 31mph and the highest is Rodgers at 48

In the 44-46 mph range.

He might not have Matt Stafford/Jay Cutler/Aaron Rodgers arm strength, but I think he is above average.

And I don't think that arm strength is overly important in the NFL....accuracy is much more important than velocity.

Not for nothing but sometimes arm strength is overrated and can get QB's in trouble. These guys make poor decisions thinking their arm strength can make up for bad decision making and it can't.

Example: look at some of the strongest arms in the league. Stafford, Cutler, Newton and Kaepernick can be loose cannons and take unnecessary risks at times thinking they can squeeze balls where they shouldn't be thrown.

...I thought he would throw the ball too hard, at times.

Eli played in a system that was not QB friendly for most of his career and still went on two hall of fame Super Bowl runs. No accuracy
My Ass.

Eli has improved over the years which is rare with that. Just throwing a ball they can hit top speed of mid. 50's to the highest of 60. Just throwing a ball ball for speed Eli is ranked 15th out of all QB's in the league. The stat I gave above is average.

Eli is accurate???? Wow!!!

team

The QB and the recievers had to make the same read of the defense.
He wasn't throwing to a spot like Brees and Brady did. Or just dumping it off like romo did. Look at his stats last year in a more QB friendly system.
And he didn't even have Beckham for the whole season.
Stats are misleading.

I'm sure most looked at my handle and my registration date. The truth is I've been a member here since 1999 and a die hard fan.
The question I posed was simple. Look at your responses and ask yourself why more people don't post.
Aside from 2 posts this was a complete waste of time.

Fair enough. Thank you for a good post!

.

Is weak that's why the thread is not active. Eli has proven to be quite accurate but in the old system Peyton and Brady would have looked bad and threw lots of ints.

You know you're talking about a guy who has been known as one of the best deep ball throwers in the league for sometime now...

What your saying is that our 2 time super bowl mvp QB...who by the way led a team with one of the worst run games and worst defenses to ever win a super bowl isnt very good...

i miss when trolls were good at what they did..you sir are an embarrassment to troll everywhere. ....lock hart would eat you alive

I'm not arguing. The other post on deep ball is correct. Eli throws a great deep ball, underneath....not so much.

In comment 12195475 banks58 said:

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I'm sure most looked at my handle and my registration date. The truth is I've been a member here since 1999 and a die hard fan. The question I posed was simple. Look at your responses and ask yourself why more people don't post. Aside from 2 posts this was a complete waste of time.

Your arguments dont make sense.

1. His stats arent good? Is this fantasy football or something? And why do his stats suck? 4,400 yards? Over 30 TDs? Is that not good enough?

2. His rm strength? Seriously? He has a stronger arm than his brother, and I think his brother is doing just fine. Jeff George had a rocket of an arm, so did Vick. So does Cutler. How's that working for them?

3. He is immobile? Funny, the one thing he does credit from around the league is his mobility in the pocket, which is far more important than running the ball in a QB.

4. Does his off the chart IQ for a football player count for anything? Guess to you it doesnt.

What QB are looking for and want? Brady? Rodgers? Luck? Well sorry to disappoint you, but they arent a dime a dozen. And they have flaws as well. There's a reason why Eli has been starting for over 10 years in the NFL.

He is that damn good.

Quote:

The ball ascended on its path down the field until it was 10 yards higher than Manning’s hand, and it left Manning’s hand at about 56 miles per hour. By the time it arrived at the point where Beckham was jostling with Dallas cornerback Brandon Carr, the football was speeding along at about 46 miles an hour.

Link - ( New Window )

That hard to say because we don't know where he is throwing the ball.
Randle and that awful TE Reese brought in two years ago made Eli look like shit at times.
One thing Eli has that you did not mention is control of his emotions by not yelling at teammates on live TV or degrading them in press conferences.
CLASS HEART AND GUTS
That's Eli Manning.

Nassib is better.

You learned a valuable lesson tonight about blind loyalty.

Bingo!!!!

Off the chart football IQ? Where are you getting that?

In comment 12195496 Micko said:

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You learned a valuable lesson tonight about blind loyalty.

Coming from the man who wants to trade Eli for the chance to draft Danny Shelton.

In comment 12195501 Micko said:

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Off the chart football IQ? Where are you getting that?

You dont believe Eli has a high football IQ? Seriously?

In comment 12195500 banks58 said:

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Bingo!!!!

I think you should stick to fantasy football, and stop watching the Giants.

Go talk to teams like the Jets, Bills, Browns, Jags, Texans, Titans, Raiders, Chiefs, Redskins, Vikings, Bears, Bucs, Rams, 49ers, among others if they would take a QB who throws for over 4,000 yards and over 30 TDs and ask if that would be good enough for them?

You can't fix stupid.

Elevates when the game becomes eratic as most other qbs crack which led to 2 Super Bowls. He elevates his team, makes the correct on field adjustments. He is proven, iron man, never gets in trouble off field. I have always said Eli is number 1 in all the non sexy categories, you sound as if you would rather have Stafford or Jay Cutler running this show.

And when all the chips are on the table, there is no one else that I want.

2011 was Eli - look at his numbers, no running game and an ok defense...

Now in a new system he shows a better TD/Int ratio which will improve even more with a better Oline and receivers...let along a running game...

And he does all the right things making him a great leader and example.4

are we really having this conversation

Underrated qb of his generation. By the time he retires he will be top ten in every major statistical category and I still believe he will win another superbowl with the giants. He will never be appreciated for how great he is by fans of other teams until he is retired.

Eli gets pounded when he deserves it, but his body of work for this franchise leads me to say go blow it out of your ass

I want to be clear that I bleed blue. I gave Eli the credit I see and critiqued some of the the thoughts I have and others have. No argument, just a discussion. I don't expect all world. Also, the 20 million he's getting paid and a new contract coming up I was looking at things as a whole with him.
For some on here is was like asking a simple question, "do you walk to school or ride the bus"? The response I got back was..."I wear brown shoes".

Absolutely he has a high football IQ. Off the charts? Guys with off the chart football IQ shouldn't be leading the league in INTs. I don't have a problem saying Eli is a great QB but when I hear people talk him up like he's an all time great I simply have to disagree. He's an all time great Giants QB though - that's for sure.

Charming to the last.

& blind loyalty is clear here when it means no one can challenge Eli's game. He has a ton of flaws. Accuracy, deep ball, too many risks to name a few. However, that is counterbalanced by being a big game QB, clutch and a smart guy. We all know he's a great QB and I'm personally very thankful he's been our QB. However, I have no problem with someone questioning Eli. I think he's earned that with some pretty shitty play at times.

That's not a great benchmark anymore.

I like Eli as a QB a lot, but he slipped in 2012-2013 and only rebounded partly in 2014. He should do better this season, especially if the O-line settles in.

He can make every throw for an NFL QB -- but yes, he is occasionally wild. Arm strength isn't really his problem. He can be mind-blowingly accurate on most throws, but not always. I suspect some of his wildness is caused by injuries we never hear about. But it is what it is.

He is underrated as a field general because Peyton is probably the brainest QB ever; Eli suffers by comparison and isn't the sort of guy to put in his own offense, as Peyton does. But Eli is tremendous at spotting what a defense is doing.

He is also EXTREMELY composed and cool under pressure, which counts for a lot.

Everybody calls him "immobile." Not exactly. He's great (one of the best in the league) at sliding in the pocket and finding a passing lane. He's not a scrambler and isn't a threat to beat you with his legs. But that's not exactly the same as "immobile."

If when he was drafted, someone had told you he'd win 2 Super Bowls, we'd have all signed up for that. He's not responsible for the lousy drafting over the last five years. In a more QB-friendly system, his stats would look better.

just listen...
Eli's talking to you... - ( New Window )

In comment 12195533 Micko said:

Quote:

Absolutely he has a high football IQ. Off the charts? Guys with off the chart football IQ shouldn't be leading the league in INTs. I don't have a problem saying Eli is a great QB but when I hear people talk him up like he's an all time great I simply have to disagree. He's an all time great Giants QB though - that's for sure.

He's not an all time great? He will be top 10 in all passing categories, one of the greatest ironman streaks alive, 2 SB MVPs, multiple pro bowls, all the team records, etc...

What classifies an all time great? A guy like Peyton? Montana? Unitas? There hasnt been a single poster here who ever said he was better or anywhere near that tier.

But this player has a very good chance to be inducted into the Hall of Fame.... so yes, that would make him an all time great.

its ok to question Eli because of his flaws....

Tell me what QBs have LESS flaws than him. Ill start off with Brady, rodgers, and Peyton (even though his time may be coming to an end soon.)

This list wont be long at all.

Good point about avoiding the sack. I did see Eli was sacked a lot less than I thought. That's with a terrible offensive line. Thanks for the input!

Eli Manning on this site. No matter how many INT's the guy throws, he's still accurate. Blame the WR's. No matter how much money the guy makes it's never enough. I love Eli for winning 2 Super Bowls and I'm glad he made his money. But IMO it's time for him to be a team player and extend his contract.

In comment 12195558 Thunderstruck27 said:

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Eli Manning on this site. No matter how many INT's the guy throws, he's still accurate. Blame the WR's.

GTFO with this weak ass shit. If you are going to criticize him, dont make shit up. Which the OP did. Posts like this show a complete lack of whats going on this site.

In comment 12195558 Thunderstruck27 said:

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Eli Manning on this site. No matter how many INT's the guy throws, he's still accurate. Blame the WR's. No matter how much money the guy makes it's never enough. I love Eli for winning 2 Super Bowls and I'm glad he made his money. But IMO it's time for him to be a team player and extend his contract.

It's sad that there are fans like you. If you were paying attention, you'd see that Eli doesn't give a fuck about stats. All he cares about is winning. He's willing to throw a pass at the end of a half or game that gets picked when guys like Rodgers will eat it. Eli's not a team player? You're a fucking idiot.

rewatch superbowl 46 and look at his throw to Manningham on the game winning drive. Eli doesn't have the strongest arm in the league but he is definitely in the top 15 at worst.

How does throwing a pick at the end of a half make him a team player?
His cap hit is huge and guys like Peyton and Brady are taking pay cuts.

Came into the NFL with an elite QB skill set. Great size great arm, not Marino Elway arm strength obviously but he always had the big league arm and of course the pedigree. He can make all the throws that many cannot. Not sure how the op came up with bottom 1/4 arm strength thing.

How good is Eli? He's got the pelts and he's gonna finish with plenty of stats. He's gonna end up being judged as a beast and he should. He's definitely had some weird moments tho. The entire franchise has been weird and downright bizarre over a ten year spell. A true microcosm of the wacky NFL. He's an Aggresive QB who isn't afraid to throw ints and no moment is too big. Love that fucking guy. I'm glad he put 2013 behind him. Glad the entire offense did.

In comment 12195577 Thunderstruck27 said:

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How does throwing a pick at the end of a half make him a team player? His cap hit is huge and guys like Peyton and Brady are taking pay cuts.

Brady didnt take a pay cut this has been proven, he would get his FULL cotnract if cut. And Peyton got more guaranteed money up front.

Now we are questioning if Eli is a team player? I am still waiting for people to tell me who has less flaws than Eli outside Peyton, Brady, rodgers.

Look at Brady's cap hit compared to Eli's...
19.8 million vs 14 million
That is 6 million we can put toward a productive player instead of being forced to resign someone like Stevie Brown.

You have no clue about his contract negotiation. None of us do. Eli is not in his LAST contract like Peyton and Tom. He has this one and one more because he's a lot younger. You can't make these comparisons. Why doesn't Wilson or Kap or even Brees play for a pittance? They're not team players

I'm an old dude and feel like a bar fight broke out 21yr olds here! Since most of us are computer literate, let's find stats where Eli is above the top 50% in QB rankings?
It's not fantasy football, and stats don't always tell the whole story. Wins and loses us what it's all about. Lately at 20 million a year we're not seeing it. Fair enough?

the definition of pathetic.

Actually Wilson played for peanuts because he was on his rookie contract...but nice try.
The only person you should be comparing him to at this point is Big Ben if that is your argument.
Ben just extended...

Your points have some work. Go back to your first post and you'll find 3 mistakes!

In comment 12195597 Peter in Atl said:

Quote:

You have no clue about his contract negotiation. None of us do. Eli is not in his LAST contract like Peyton and Tom. He has this one and one more because he's a lot younger. You can't make these comparisons. Why doesn't Wilson or Kap or even Brees play for a pittance? They're not team players

Eli's last two cap hits were for over 20 million. Wanna know why? The prior three years it was 9, 12, and 14 million.... he kept restructing his contract so we could sign players.

Fucking selfish prick.

In comment 12195606 banks58 said:

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Your points have some work. Go back to your first post and you'll find 3 mistakes!

Go back to your initial post, realize nothing you said made any fucking sense, then delete this thread. You have been proven wrong by about 12 posters so far.

In comment 12195602 Thunderstruck27 said:

Quote:

Actually Wilson played for peanuts because he was on his rookie contract...but nice try. The only person you should be comparing him to at this point is Big Ben if that is your argument. Ben just extended...

What you fail to understand is you have no fucking clue as to what is going on with Eli's contract; right? Neither do I. His contract didn't have any influence on the signing of free agents. In other words, today, Eli's contract DOES NOT MATTER.

I meant to quote thunderdunce.

In comment 12195577 Thunderstruck27 said:

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How does throwing a pick at the end of a half make him a team player? His cap hit is huge and guys like Peyton and Brady are taking pay cuts.

Peyton and brady weren't taking pay cuts in their early 30s and fuck this saint Brady shit. Off topic and its just my wacky angry brain but I still don't trust this Brady pats touchy feely contract shit. That's just me tho.. And even if it's on the up and up fuck Brady anyway.

I can't even tolerate this new sports fan culture of obsessing over the contracts. It's truly ruining sports for me. The contracts are fine it's the constant whining from fans that sucks. We get it everyone is over paid enough already. Stop watching sports if it bothers u.

2013,2014,and 2015

I'd have no problem with that if Eli led us to the playoffs in any of those years. The only thing he led was the NFL in turnovers.

was 9 million. I doubt that led the league.

it's part of the game now. When the NFL gets rid of the salary cap I'll stop whining about cap hits. Deal?

Perfect analysis imho.

Eli is only one of 53 guys on the team, I think a lot of those players (throw in the coaches and executives) had more to do with not making the playoffs than Eli.

2-3-4 years from now the pats will get busted cheating the cap. They get busted every few years doing some thing weird why not pull a 90s niners parlor trick. Wouldn't shock me.

No more interest in you. I can't be wrong if I'm not arguing.

In comment 12195619 dep026 said:

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Eli is only one of 53 guys on the team, I think a lot of those players (throw in the coaches and executives) had more to do with not making the playoffs than Eli.

Interesting that none of them except JPP this year get paid close to anything what Eli makes.

All-time great? Close - but no. That category is reserved for a select few.

In comment 12195623 Thunderstruck27 said:

Quote:

In comment 12195619 dep026 said: Quote: Eli is only one of 53 guys on the team, I think a lot of those players (throw in the coaches and executives) had more to do with not making the playoffs than Eli. Interesting that none of them except JPP this year get paid close to anything what Eli makes.

Interesting that the QB position gets paid more than any other position in football, isnt it?

does it not have much to do with making the playoffs...I'm confused by your retarded double speak

In comment 12195628 Micko said:

Quote:

All-time great? Close - but no. That category is reserved for a select few.

I agree, but its based on your definition of what an all-time great is. If you are saying he isnt in the class of his brother ,brady, montana, unitas.... then I agree 100%

In comment 12195633 Thunderstruck27 said:

Quote:

does it not have much to do with making the playoffs...I'm confused by your retarded double speak

Still waiting for you tell me how his 9 million cap hit in 2012 made him the highest against the cap.

And also how he restructured for 3 years to free up cap space makes him selfish.

Keeping using the word retarded, makes you look classy.

If Eli builds on 2014 he'll be worth 20M per year. I'm still holding out hope that the new offense will allow Eli to reach another level.

Yup, that's what I'm saying. Eli is second tier imho. Just like Simms.

IMO has made people stupid regarding football...

Eli has been playing ten years..

2 Superbowls.
2 Superbowl MVP's

39,755 yards passing on a team that actively tries to run a balanced offense. Not a pass first team.. will go over 40K this year.. and will easily hit 50K if he stays healty..

259 TD's which means he will eclipse 300 in at two years minimum...

So what he isnt Brady. Brees or Rodgers.. Big Whup...

Go back and visit the Kent Graham, Danny Kanell, Dave Brown days a QB..

Appreciate what you've got..

With a minimum of 10 Playoff games played, Eli has the best winning percentage amongst active QBs. Better than Brady, Rodgers and big brother, Peyton.

Player GS W L T Pct

Russell Wilson 8 6 2 0 0.750
Eli Manning 11 8 3 0 0.727
Tom Brady 29 21 8 0 0.724
Joe Flacco 15 10 5 0 0.667
Ben Roethlisberger 15 10 5 0 0.667
Colin Kaepernick 6 4 2 0 0.667
Mark Sanchez 6 4 2 0 0.667
Drew Brees 11 6 5 0 0.545
Aaron Rodgers 11 6 5 0 0.545
Andrew Luck 6 3 3 0 0.500
Rex Grossman 4 2 2 0 0.500
Matt Schaub 2 1 1 0 0.500
T.J. Yates 2 1 1 0 0.500
Jay Cutler 2 1 1 0 0.500
Peyton Manning 24 11 13 0 0.458

Nuff fucking said.

You make the same mistake others do. You list the top 3 QB's and talk fantasy football. I posed a question before in what he's above the top half in? That's based on this year and every year he's been in the league. I gave him credit for for being durable. Super Bowls? That's a team win. MVP? Most Super Bowl wins go to the QB.

That's a team win.

In comment 12195646 banks58 said:

Quote:

You make the same mistake others do. You list the top 3 QB's and talk fantasy football. I posed a question before in what he's above the top half in? That's based on this year and every year he's been in the league. I gave him credit for for being durable. Super Bowls? That's a team win. MVP? Most Super Bowl wins go to the QB.

You didnt answer...

what you wanted in a QB.
QB who have less flaws than him (outside the top 3)
And have been proven wrong about arm strength, mobility, and stats.

Kind of feel out of place in this useless thread?

In comment 12195649 banks58 said:

Quote:

That's a team win.

I'm just talking QBs, starts and playoffs. His winning % in the playoffs is ridiculous. And if Gilbride doesn't have his head up his ass in that playoff game against Philly, Eli would have three SBs and this thread wouldn't even exist.

With all due respect...

Playing from behind and being durable lead to yards and garbage all time stats.

In comment 12195649 banks58 said:

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That's a team win.

Arent stats part of a team as well? Blocking, catching, YAC. Seems like you need more than 1player to accumulate stats.

In comment 12195655 banks58 said:

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Playing from behind and being durable lead to yards and garbage all time stats.

Playing from behind also leads to INTs and low % percentage, does it not?

I never seen a poster be so more wrong on a thread in my life than you are here, and thats an accomplishment for the history of BBI.

for me.. Eli is more than good enough.. I dont care what other people think about Eli.. I appreciate him for who he is and what he has done..

Peyton.. One ring..
Brees.. One ring....
Rodgers.. One ring..
Rivers.. ZERO rings...

Ben.. Two rings...

Brady.. Four Rings.. Might have been SIX..

except for that Eli kid ruined the party..

SO Ill take that and enjoy the hell out of it..

In comment 12195635 dep026 said:

Quote:

In comment 12195633 Thunderstruck27 said: Quote: does it not have much to do with making the playoffs...I'm confused by your retarded double speak Still waiting for you tell me how his 9 million cap hit in 2012 made him the highest against the cap. And also how he restructured for 3 years to free up cap space makes him selfish. Keeping using the word retarded, makes you look classy.

1. I never said that his 2012 number was highest. But 2013, 14, and 15 he was top 3 QB...I said that in another post.
2. I never called him selfish. I said he should extend. He did restructure...thanks Eli.
3. re·tard·ed
rəˈtärdÉ™d/
adjective
datedoffensive
less advanced in mental, physical, or social development than is usual for one's age.
informaloffensive
very foolish or stupid.
"in retrospect, it was a totally retarded idea"

Dep....I haven't been proven wrong on any of the points I've mentioned.
We're rooting for the same team here. Also, I posed the original question of how good is Eli? You were looking for me to answer when I posed a question?
Now, top 50% in 3 categories? Wadda got? Please don't bring up Super Bowls and TEAM wins. Again, we're on the same side here.

In comment 12195673 banks58 said:

Quote:

Dep....I haven't been proven wrong on any of the points I've mentioned. We're rooting for the same team here. Also, I posed the original question of how good is Eli? You were looking for me to answer when I posed a question? Now, top 50% in 3 categories? Wadda got? Please don't bring up Super Bowls and TEAM wins. Again, we're on the same side here.

You said his arm strength is in the bottom 1/4th in the league
You said he has no mobility

Both are the furthest from the truth and completely false.

To answer your "stat" - Ill even just do top 10, not even top 16 to prove a point.

Passes completed - 6 times
Passing TDs - 8 times
Passing yards - 5 times
Passing attempts - 6 times

Go to bed.
Passing yards - 5 times

Wtf are you talking about? Are you drunk?

In comment 12195677 banks58 said:

Quote:

Wtf are you talking about? Are you drunk?

I proved what you said in the original post as wrong.

And then I provided stats that you wanted (where Eli finished in the top 50% in the NFL) where Eli finished top 10 (which is a lot higher than in the top 16 in which you wanted) in the NFL. Not hard stuff buddy. Try to keep up. I am making you look like a fool.

check out his signing bonus

because you're never going to convince someone of something they don't want to believe, but a couple of posters on this one(and I think we know who they are)are takin' a whoopin'!

I'm done. I should have stayed away when I originally said I was. You're 100% wrong in your stats. Why I wasted the time to check you BS is on me. I'm not sure what you were looking to get out of this but you completely blew this thread.

Eli (easily a future HOF QB) is "not what I'm looking for in a QB" ? Then you are obviously looking for the wrong things in a QB IMO

How many players played better without Eli than with him?

Only two guys that I am aware of. Visanthe Shiancoe and Martellus Bennett, just so you don't have to look it up. Tell me again how Eli is not a leader............

.

maybe even one more in his career if the stars align.

He's also bad enough to throw 4 or 5 picks in a game at any time.

There is your range...

In comment 12195698 banks58 said:

Quote:

I'm done. I should have stayed away when I originally said I was. You're 100% wrong in your stats. Why I wasted the time to check you BS is on me. I'm not sure what you were looking to get out of this but you completely blew this thread.

I am 100% wrong with my stats huh? My rankings are wrong? I guess football reference is wrong as well.

The only thing I ruined is your ego because you looked like a complete idiot. Arm strength, mobility, and stats - you didnt get a single thing right. I told you to delete this garbage as soon as you posted it.


Banks58 looking like a moron - ( New Window )

In comment 12195724 Jimmy Googs said:

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maybe even one more in his career if the stars align. He's also bad enough to throw 4 or 5 picks in a game at any time. There is your range...

Hmm you could be describing Peyton, Brees, Rodgers just to name a few..

as consistently sloppy with ints like Eli. Brees has a little more bravado and that causes his number of picks to rise, but all these guys take care of the ball better.

should delete threads like this before they escalate. From looking at his profile, he is a 3/15 so obviously he is looking to create a stir or controversy to make himself known (or reknown since he may as very well be a dupe.) He is going to bring up the most controversial player on the team (sad how people still strike him down) just so he can cause a stir here at BBI. And shame on me for taking the bait, but it happens when you are up watching basketball....

As far the original post and the signs you knew what he was doing. Not your typical "leader", poor arm strength, no mobility... some of the things in which Eli is widely renown for in the league, so right off the bat the OP agenda was clear. And even when his original premesis was knocked down by many posters, he was still fighting the good fight.... just to keep the thread going.

And I understand I am Eli's biggest defender here at BBI, but its these kinds of threads that are just not needed here at BBI. You wanna talk about his contract, thats fine because its is going to be a big deal when it is done. However, when asking the OP what kind of QB he wanted or when showing stats that proved his theories wrong, you just dont get anything back in return.

The majority of BBI (cant say all given some posters continually pecking him down) know what we have in Eli. A player who can make all the throws, doesnt wilt under pressure, a tough SOB who says and does all the right things with the media. He will force throws (which leads to high INT totals), his short passing game isnt the most accurate at times, and will throw absolute stinkers 1-2 a year. However, when it is all said and done, he usually puts us to win in the majority of the games we play. Now we havent made the playoffs the last few years, however I think we have a lot weaker positions to worry about.

It's my fault I took the bait from the OP, but it's clearly the he either has an agenda or is very ignorant of what Eli can and already has done for this organization.

In comment 12195737 Jimmy Googs said:

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as consistently sloppy with ints like Eli. Brees has a little more bravado and that causes his number of picks to rise, but all these guys take care of the ball better.

I think you overrate Drew Brees. If you watched Saints games this year, his turnovers turned out to be difference makers in games. I would never put Brees in the category of the Rodgers, Bradys, or Peytons. Actually I think those 3 are on a much higher level than Brees.

In comment 12195737 Jimmy Googs said:

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as consistently sloppy with ints like Eli. Brees has a little more bravado and that causes his number of picks to rise, but all these guys take care of the ball better.

Well now he is running the same type of offense those other guys have running their whole careers so if last year is any guide his stats particularly int's will go down..

But he is willing to take chances and if he hadn't (helmet catch, Manningham) in those 2 SB's the Giants don't win those games..and imho those other 3 guys would never have thrown those balls..

In comment 12195614 Thunderstruck27 said:

Quote:

2013,2014,and 2015 I'd have no problem with that if Eli led us to the playoffs in any of those years. The only thing he led was the NFL in turnovers.

You're a dumb cunt. Stop posting forever?

In comment 12195741 dep026 said:

Quote:

In comment 12195737 Jimmy Googs said: Quote: as consistently sloppy with ints like Eli. Brees has a little more bravado and that causes his number of picks to rise, but all these guys take care of the ball better. I think you overrate Drew Brees. If you watched Saints games this year, his turnovers turned out to be difference makers in games. I would never put Brees in the category of the Rodgers, Bradys, or Peytons. Actually I think those 3 are on a much higher level than Brees.

I agree those 3 are higher too. But I am not over-rating Brees just qualifying him has lesser than the 3 and a bit less sloppier than Eli.

he's not a top five QB but who cares. He doesn't need to be. Eli is a bona fide franchise QB. He's a top 10 QB in the league and has been for a long time. That's good enough to win Superbowls if the team as a whole is good. The team hasn't been good enough or healthy enough in recent years.

In comment 12195779 Jimmy Googs said:

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In comment 12195741 dep026 said: Quote: In comment 12195737 Jimmy Googs said: Quote: as consistently sloppy with ints like Eli. Brees has a little more bravado and that causes his number of picks to rise, but all these guys take care of the ball better. I think you overrate Drew Brees. If you watched Saints games this year, his turnovers turned out to be difference makers in games. I would never put Brees in the category of the Rodgers, Bradys, or Peytons. Actually I think those 3 are on a much higher level than Brees. I agree those 3 are higher too. But I am not over-rating Brees just qualifying him has lesser than the 3 and a bit less sloppier than Eli.

Not unreasonable. You have to understand that I am not a huge Brees fan. I have him closer to top 10 than top 5. haha

argument with one post and it was completely ignored by the op. Well done, Homer.

Favre, IMO. Gunslinger that sometimes believes he'd better win this game on his own or else accept a loss. Eli is a quite leader.

The OP claims that Eli is not a leader but he is according to teammates. I've heard quite a few players over the years say that. He's not a screamer and that's what I think you meant to say.

His accuracy when throwing the deep ball is exceptional. Short passes were never his forte. The fact that he starts every game at the most important position cannot be underrated.

In comment 12195737 Jimmy Googs said:

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as consistently sloppy with ints like Eli. Brees has a little more bravado and that causes his number of picks to rise, but all these guys take care of the ball better.

I don't know about Brees, he has almost 200 career int's as well(although he has played longer)and has some fumble issues. He has also thrown more than 20 picks in a season.

Stats can be skewed no matter which side of the discussion you're on. I prefer the eye test and to me(imho)Manning is pretty darn good.

He was wrong. A long ball with an arc can't travel at 56mph. Also, 48 mph when it landed? Lol.....the author of that article was a joke. He said "about 56 mph" I ignored it because it was inane. He guessed! Rodgers knowing he's being timed can't hit over 58 throwing a 10yd bullet.

I'm interested in how Luck looks in 5 years or so.

did you read the article?

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John Eric Goff, a professor of physics at Lynchburg College in Virginia and the author of “Gold Medal Physics: The Science of Sports,” carefully assessed the video of Beckham’s catch and determined that Manning’s pass had traveled about 55 yards of horizontal distance on its way to Beckham’s right hand. The ball ascended on its path down the field until it was 10 yards higher than Manning’s hand, and it left Manning’s hand at about 56 miles per hour. By the time it arrived at the point where Beckham was jostling with Dallas cornerback Brandon Carr, the football was speeding along at about 46 miles an hour.

So this physics dude using actual data just made it all up? Maybe he is wrong, but just made it up? Go back and watch the play and tell me there was no arm strength involved.

everyone else is wrong except the OP. He is making a mockery of this site. Probably just on his 6th or 7th handle.

He STILL cant admit he is wrong on anything he has stated. Need more stats backing Eli being in the top 10 for a lot of year in every passing category?

He's good enough for me, and I don't feel the need to expand on that for the amusement of some schmuck troll with an agenda looking to start a fight. I'll just say Go Fuck Yourself and move on to another thread.

you need to switch to decaf, buddy.

Who gives two shits what a couple of morons think?

Especially, when they prove, without a shadow of a doubt, that they don't know shit about the game.

Now this one is more about Beckham(or Becky as a few of our more famous colleagues were calling him last summer)but watch the video and listen to what Dr. Jung says..."he's throwing(Manning)about 50mph".

Let the arm strength thing go.

One last comment, I didn't link it because it was a slideshow from Bleacher Report, but they had Manning at 15th out of 32 in arm strength(it was 2012 the most recent I could find)in front of players like Rivers and Ryan.

Manning isn't the greatest ever, and he has many flaws, but when arguing his good and bad we should dig in to the stats and not just look at the surface.
physics, maybe the earth is flat? - ( New Window )

In comment 12195873 dorgan said:

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you need to switch to decaf, buddy. Who gives two shits what a couple of morons think? Especially, when they prove, without a shadow of a doubt, that they don't know shit about the game.

Haha. I was not in a good mood last night. Was it that obvious?

Don't waste your time on these two trolls. You are giving these losers exactly what they want just ignore them it's not worth it.

March 2015.

draw your own conclusions.

In comment 12195888 Jay on the Island said:

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Don't waste your time on these two trolls. You are giving these losers exactly what they want just ignore them it's not worth it.

Jay, I don't consider them trolls. They are proven to be assholes. There is a difference. For example, I have a brother who never posts on sports sites. He's a Jets fan. Whenever the Giants or a Giant's player is brought up, he immediately transforms into a stage III asshole.

It happens when a team like the Giants has either beaten their team badly in a critical game or has accomplished far more than the "asshole's" team has.

I've been here longer than most of you! This is only my 2nd handle because of the recent issues.
I went to camp and provided reports along with Marty. I met many BBI members when they had their get together in Albany. HopeJ and Bob in Annapolis were great and missed. Eric is enjoyable to have conversation and I gave my donation in cash when I saw him. Lay off the dupe topic.
I have noticed most of the people I met no longer post or have decided it's not worth it. SOTI....remember him? Yeah, gone! The only remaining posters are bb56,Eric,Britt in Va and George in Manhattan. Once in awhile gidiefor will come on.
My topic was simply asking for your thoughts. It turned into a pissing match. Ask 5 fans that root for different teams there thoughts about Eli? See what you get. I have no agenda. I was curious asking on a Giants forum. Is that wrong now? If also invite you to re-read my original post.

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He's not a "leader" but is described by his team mates as someone who bonds with them usually as a practical joker. Peel back the rind and look at stats and it's not pretty. We have a pocket passer with little to no mobility. A propensity to throw I'll timed INT's and accuracy is questionable. He's in the bottom 1/4 of the league in terms of arm strength(ball velocity) and that contributes in my option to more INT's. In a nutshell, everything you want from a PR perspective, but not what I'm looking for in a QB. Numbers don't lie!

Let me break it down for you.

1. He isnt a "leader". Now how are you going to be put in a position where YOU can make that claim. Based off what? Tiki barber about 10 years ago? Every report said Eli is a leader in the locker room, is one of the hardest working Giants, and works constantly to get better.

2. He has no mobility. About 10 posters have said his mobility in the pocket is one of his greatest strengths. Most pundits have it one of the best in the league. No, he isnt going to scramble for 15-20 yards, he isnt like Romo who just runs around in the backfield. But he is excellent and finding the lane he needs to throw too.

3. He throws ill-timed INTs. I'll give you that one.

4. Arm strength being in the bottom 1/4th. Well first, how do you know? Did you measure every single QBs arm in the league? Next, who cares if it was. His arm is certainly stronger than Peytons, and he has done ok in his career. Same with Matt Ryan and Philip Rivers. Refer back to my Jeff George analogy as why it doesnt matter hwo strong your arm is. Jamarcus Russell had a fantastic arm, where is he now?

5. His stats. I slaready showed you how he has ranked in the top 10 in the NFL in yards, attempts, completions, and TDs for the majority of his career. You wanted him in the upper half, well he is even better than that. He is in the top 10.

So again, lot of your original post is speculation on your part, not backed up by facts or statistics. And when a poster shows you when you are wrong, you ignore them or basically flat out say they are wrong, even when backed up. You didnt want to start a discussion, you would looking to stir the pot, and failed miserably. Now for the sake of the board.... admit you were wrong and/or ignorant and move along. You have embarrassed yourself enough on this thread.

1) I have the privilege of sitting with Chris Mara each year at an annual Rick Pittino event, put on for a deceased client. I'm a SR vp at a major brokerage firm. It's held at Saratoga national and Bill Parcells is also in attendance. They poke fun over drinks about Eli when he tries to give a speech or lead. He's known as a practical joker and that's how he gets through to the team. I gave him credit for his work Ethic in my original post. It's more than Tiki. Coughlin has spoke to him many times about being more vocal. Strahan called him Opie. Yes, I'm frustrated when I see other QB's get emotional and watch Eli simply shrug his shoulders.
2) mobility can't be put into a stat. Romo creates plays and Big Ben is hard to take down. Eli leads in turnovers trying to get rid of the ball when he has scrambled. Fumbles need to enter that conversation too.
3) we're in agreement.
4) stats. I think that goes back to durability and playing from behind, no? An all time list of what he's done has to be put into context of today's NFL. It's also the reason I posed the original question. You were kind enough to provide the info....thank you! Why you added smug remarks is on you.
5) you said this thread would get no traction. Aside from talking about McDonalds, It seems to have plenty of hits for responses. Would you like to discuss a bigmac on a Giants forum?
Bottom line is I looked for a discussion about Giants football and have had little success in proving to others how good a player Eli is when speaking with fans if it her teams. You gave me a good list if things to discuss. Thank you....

and being emotional and yelling is often counter productive.

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I'm a SR vp at a major brokerage firm.

Also, please acknowledge many posters have presented stats and other opinions you have chosen to ignore.

Also, I would be shocked if Mara ever said Manning wasn't a leader in public.

What did I ignore?

what did you think of Fewell's defense? Would you consider it too complex?

In comment 12196068 banks58 said:

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1) I have the privilege of sitting with Chris Mara each year at an annual Rick Pittino event, put on for a deceased client. I'm a SR vp at a major brokerage firm. It's held at Saratoga national and Bill Parcells is also in attendance. They poke fun over drinks about Eli when he tries to give a speech or lead. He's known as a practical joker and that's how he gets through to the team. I gave him credit for his work Ethic in my original post. It's more than Tiki. Coughlin has spoke to him many times about being more vocal. Strahan called him Opie. Yes, I'm frustrated when I see other QB's get emotional and watch Eli simply shrug his shoulders. 2) mobility can't be put into a stat. Romo creates plays and Big Ben is hard to take down. Eli leads in turnovers trying to get rid of the ball when he has scrambled. Fumbles need to enter that conversation too. 3) we're in agreement. 4) stats. I think that goes back to durability and playing from behind, no? An all time list of what he's done has to be put into context of today's NFL. It's also the reason I posed the original question. You were kind enough to provide the info....thank you! Why you added smug remarks is on you. 5) you said this thread would get no traction. Aside from talking about McDonalds, It seems to have plenty of hits for responses. Would you like to discuss a bigmac on a Giants forum? Bottom line is I looked for a discussion about Giants football and have had little success in proving to others how good a player Eli is when speaking with fans if it her teams. You gave me a good list if things to discuss. Thank you....

To be quite frank, I think you are full of shit and dont know your ass from a football.

Just an absolutely pathetic thread from a previous banned poster.

Not complex at all. It was a mix between a Tampa 2 and cover 2. He had to make adjustments due to injury and talent.

I was seeing if you were Jersey Joe back with yet another handle.

In comment 12196089 banks58 said:

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What did I ignore?

My friend, almost everything posted! That Manning finishing in the upper half of the league many times in many categories, the arm strength debunking...so many...I don't get it.

I don't think you wanted to actually discuss anything(benefit of the doubt and not saying what some posters have)I think you wanted to chunk your own opinions out(which is certainly okay but several of them are so wrong)and you were surprised when you were hit with factual responses.

If you have been here for awhile, as you state, you know how Manning threads go. I've seen this same thread a dozen times a year since 2004(well 2005, really)and it almost always ends the same way. Your opinions(which are okay)are not completely supported by the facts.

Manning isn't the best ever, but he is not awful. Tell me, what do you want from your QB(this was asked before and I don't believe answered)? If you want Brady. Rodgers , Luck, Elway or Montana...well there aren't many of those out there. If you want less of a cap hit, well so do I, but it is what it is. What do you want and where doesn't Manning meet your expectations?

No agenda. That's what seems to keep getting missed on this thread. Everything I've said has been asking for opinion. You can see I how I got it!! Arm strength has been a major focus. I believe I said thank you to Dep and you saw the response I got.

In comment 12196144 banks58 said:

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No agenda. That's what seems to keep getting missed on this thread. Everything I've said has been asking for opinion. You can see I how I got it!! Arm strength has been a major focus. I believe I said thank you to Dep and you saw the response I got.

If you could admit that you have been wrong on a lot of areas, you would get more positive, worth while discussion. But you have dismissed just about everything thrown to you and come back with ridiculous personal stories that no one believes.

Again, what have I dismissed? Honestly, is it that hard to answer? We had great posters in here before. Many have left for this very reason! What did I dismiss?

In comment 12195751 Randy in CT said:

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You're a dumb cunt. Stop posting forever?

Damn Randy? Got sand in your clit this morning?

Before you answer, the "stories" I shared are true. That's you 1st mistake!

In comment 12196177 banks58 said:

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Before you answer, the "stories" I shared are true. That's you 1st mistake!

Okay...

He is the best QB this franchise has ever had and when given the proper protection he is a surgical killer. He carried the team on his back in 2011. And to be fair he has never had really elite talent surrounding him. Nicks in his prime and OBJ now. A bunch of journeymen TE's and poor running game for nearly half of his career. also a bottom tier defense in 2011. His greatness will not be appreciated until we have a geno smith like successor.

I owe you an apology on the personal stories subject. That was from Dep.
Sorry...

if you really i mean really don think Eli is good or trust him enough hop off the Ryan Nassib fan club and join some shitty team with some one similar to nassib or better. I'm putting this down now nassib is no Jeff hostetler if he had to start the whole 2014 season in eli's shoes maybe we win 3 games. maybe. Im starting to hate nassib because of all of this "nassib should start over Eli" BS just stop it.

That's all this is. Clearly this guy has no fucking clue who he's talking about,or what he's talking about. I dn't need to post any stats,or how hard he throws. You just make yourself seem less intelligent the more you speak. How many quarterbacks make that throw down the sideline to Manningham on a game winning drive in the superbowl. Definitely not you (Average) QB. Just look at how he's thrived in the postseason and nevermind all the other bullshit you listed to try and make your point,rather unsuccessfully I might add. You do not bleed blue by the way. No true Giants fan would even entertain this notion. I dn't care if you've been a member since 99 or 59,that proves absolutely nothing. By the way,YOU'RE AN IDIOT!!!

In comment 12195614 Thunderstruck27 said:

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2013,2014,and 2015 I'd have no problem with that if Eli led us to the playoffs in any of those years. The only thing he led was the NFL in turnovers.

I wonder what team you're a fan of. I'm gonna guess Dallas. You have an infatuation with our QB. Very understandable for a fan of a team that has Romo for a QB. All stats and no ring. GFY.

Ya it's all on Eli that we haven't made the playoff the past 3 years. Here's another one who likes to hear himself breathe from the mouth. Haha... I can tell because you speak like a 12 year old trying to induce a response by questioning my loyalty. :)

more years to pass complete judgement. Like many here I believe many of his interceptions can be attributed to the Gilbride system. Under just 1 year in this new system his interception rate dropped dramatically. He just had one of his best years and it's the first year in this new system.

Really hoping to see Eli's numbers with a healthy Cruz, Beckham, Vereen, etc this year.

Eli has done it twice. THat's all that fucking matters!

Eli could literally start the 2015 season by taking a big shit all over the field and never play another down and he'd still be a NYG legend. The judgement was reached in Feb 2008. And then it was reinforced in Feb 2012. Eli was is and always will be a football God for this NYG franchise.

IT's all about the super bowls. Eli closed the deal twice. LOL...TWICE!! And he's not done yet.

Any fan looking for more or questioning Eli's worth just lacks perspective. Simple as that.

as much as it was directed at the OP.

IT was exhausting having to defend Eli from 2005-2007 because the fans were relentless and refused to see any positives from Eli while expecting greatness from a young individual still ascending within a team dynamic that needed other players to ascend along with him in order for the team to reach greatness. The QB is the most important player but the whole team needs to play well. Some fans just can't wrap their head around this fact.

Eli was always unfairly bashed even during his lowest of lows. Most QBs get too much love or too much hate but with Eli it went way beyond the norm.

I won't lie I was never more emotionally invested in a player's fortunes than Eli. I went out of my way to defend him and always loved how Eli carried himself here in NY. As he went, I went. I might have even been a little too loyal or subjective --I can admit that now. I probably defended him at times when he did deserve some criticism. But once Eli and the Giants won super bowl 42 it was like a weight was lifted off my shoulders..I just didn't care anymore when fans got on him--and for a year or so no one said a word. Then he wins it all again in 2011...and now I just find these kinds of threads laughable. None of this shit matters anymore. Eli defenders shouldn't let this shit get to them...these people getting all analytical and critical and "honest" just don't get it. Let them critique the guy's game. Ten years from now these same apes will be waxing poetic about Eli and bashing the new QB. IT's what they do...they observe from a warped perspective and use stats to support their flawed logic. And you know what they say about stats.

Stats are a somewhat fair and logical way to analyze a player's worth but in the end you go by the pelts. You go by what that player brought to the franchise. Eli brought EVERYTHING to this franchise. He enabled apes like you and I to sit at a poker table and laugh when the Niner or Dallas or Eagle or Skins or Jets or Pats fan tries to talk shit. Nothing tops that.

and guarantee that 10 other QBs would have come in here from 2005 through 2014 and won MORE than one super bowl...well...we agree to disagree.

Maybe a guy like Tony Romo lights up the stat sheets here if he's a Giant all these years. I don't doubt that he does. The guy can play. I don't doubt that Romo, thanks in part to his own gifted skill set, maybe even leads the Giants to more postseasons and more regular season success than Eli did in the same time line. I can't dismiss Romo's abilities nor should anyone else. Maybe Romo wins more playoff games here than Eli's 8. Again, anything is possible.

But to sit here and proclaim with even a hint of certainty that Romo or Rivers or Ben or even Aaron Fucking Rodgers or Tom fucking BRady would win ONE, let alone TWO super bowls is completely laughable. Winning the super bowl is akin to winning the lottery. So much luck and timimg is involved. Romo may get hurt in a playoff run--Rivers may not connect on that critical pass in a playoff game...maybe Big Ben is in jail if he's a QB in this area....maybe Brady never is Tom Brady without the comfy confines of New England. Who the fuck knows. Every team sport is predicated on luck, timing, karma and talent. Some of the best players ever didn't win a title because the winds of karma blew the wrong way at just the wrong time.

Eli was the karma. If you can't see it, then I feel sorry for you.

Eli is clutch/has ice in his veins - it means he can step up in the biggest moments, but it also means he will assume too much risk at times and make poor decisions and throws. he is also a QB that tends to warm up as the game goes on as he gets into the flow, more of a strong finisher/slow starter.

In comment 12198845 Les in TO said:

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Eli is clutch/has ice in his veins - it means he can step up in the biggest moments, but it also means he will assume too much risk at times and make poor decisions and throws. he is also a QB that tends to warm up as the game goes on as he gets into the flow, more of a strong finisher/slow starter.

I think this is also a testament to his film study, adjusting to what the defense is giving him as the game goes on.

Just to qualify myself,I have been a avid Giant fan since 1958.Sometimes,fans get caught up in loyalty and sometimes they are hypercritical.You know the half full/half empty syndrome.
I will forever be greatful to Eli for his ROLE in two Super Bowl victories.I have never seen Eli as elite.To be elite ,a quarterback,must be able to carry a team on his back time and time again.Eli has never been able to do that.What Eli is is a very important piece of the puzzle,that turned two rather average teams into Super Bowl winners.
To truly assess Eli's standing in the hierarchy of NFL QB's,one must look at what the out of towners think of Eli.Although nobody is 100% objective,the national sportscasters and writers gives us the best chance at objectivity.
Eli is perceived by the national media and out of town fans as inconsistent,running hot and cold,another words rather average.I am sorry to upset those fans who wear BLUE colored glasses ,but those are the facts.

And didn't carry the team on his back. Really? Thrn show me a qb who did.

In comment 12199021 Giant Blue said:

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Just to qualify myself,I have been a avid Giant fan since 1958.Sometimes,fans get caught up in loyalty and sometimes they are hypercritical.You know the half full/half empty syndrome. I will forever be greatful to Eli for his ROLE in two Super Bowl victories.I have never seen Eli as elite.To be elite ,a quarterback,must be able to carry a team on his back time and time again.Eli has never been able to do that.What Eli is is a very important piece of the puzzle,that turned two rather average teams into Super Bowl winners. To truly assess Eli's standing in the hierarchy of NFL QB's,one must look at what the out of towners think of Eli.Although nobody is 100% objective,the national sportscasters and writers gives us the best chance at objectivity. Eli is perceived by the national media and out of town fans as inconsistent,running hot and cold,another words rather average.I am sorry to upset those fans who wear BLUE colored glasses ,but those are the facts.

Amazing that a fan of this team for so long, has a glass is empty view of the Qb that brought him 2 SBs so far. I'm not going to try to convince you nor the assmonkey/troll thread starter about Eli's value to the team. Nor will I argue about a subjective term like "elite".

When he's on he's capable of getting white hot, and has won it all twice. The NFL is a bit watered down over the past ten years, but he's still one of how many SB winners?

When his pass blocking stinks, then his decision making, his mechanics, eye level, and overall performance often all go to hell. He's human.

list the QBs you think are clearly superior to Eli.

I fully recognize Eli's warts, but you'll be hard pressed to list ten QBs superior to him.

In comment 12199060 JonC said:

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When he's on he's capable of getting white hot, and has won it all twice. The NFL is a bit watered down over the past ten years, but he's still one of how many SB winners? When his pass blocking stinks, then his decision making, his mechanics, eye level, and overall performance often all go to hell. He's human.

Going into next year, there are only 3 QBs who I am comfortable in saying that will be flat out better than him:
Rodgers, Luck, Brady

Now there are lot of other QBs like Peyton, Brees, Rivers, Romo, Ben, Ryan, WIlson that can absolutely have better years than him but htey all have question marks.

Is Peyton healthy?
Brees supporting cast?
Romo losing Murray
Rivers supporting cast
Wilson's next step of improvement
Ryan not sucking in big games

I think the top 3 will establish themselves clearly as the best, but there is no reason why Eli cant play like a top 5 QB in the league still. I bet he plays closer to 5 than 15 this year, but you never know.

But seriously, if you think he can't carry a team, just revisit the NFC championship game against the Niners in 2012. Eli had a heroic performance on a day where they couldn't run at all and he was under attack all day. 58 pass attempts that day.

He may always look like a dork and be totally uncoordinated but he is a true champ when the game is on the line and is super clutch.
Link - ( New Window )

In comment 12199021 Giant Blue said:

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Just to qualify myself,I have been a avid Giant fan since 1958.Sometimes,fans get caught up in loyalty and sometimes they are hypercritical.You know the half full/half empty syndrome. I will forever be greatful to Eli for his ROLE in two Super Bowl victories.I have never seen Eli as elite.To be elite ,a quarterback,must be able to carry a team on his back time and time again.Eli has never been able to do that.What Eli is is a very important piece of the puzzle,that turned two rather average teams into Super Bowl winners. To truly assess Eli's standing in the hierarchy of NFL QB's,one must look at what the out of towners think of Eli.Although nobody is 100% objective,the national sportscasters and writers gives us the best chance at objectivity. Eli is perceived by the national media and out of town fans as inconsistent,running hot and cold,another words rather average.I am sorry to upset those fans who wear BLUE colored glasses ,but those are the facts.

The FACTS also indicate that ELI carried this team when it mattered most. Just look at where our Defense and running games ranked when we won the superbowls.

Another fact is only 2 players had better stats without Eli than with him. That shows Eli elevates the level of play of those around him.

Was not QB-friendly in the least.

Eli with arguably less on the OL and at receiver collectively than most years in the TC regime AND a half-season learning curve with the new offense ended up with the second best season of his career.

I don't think the previous O allowed us to see what Eli is capable of especially statistic wise.

If he stays healthy and the offense has close to the overall talent of previous years, I am confident that his numbers would begin to resemble the top Qbs in the league.

In comment 12198850 Britt in VA said:

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In comment 12198845 Les in TO said: Quote: Eli is clutch/has ice in his veins - it means he can step up in the biggest moments, but it also means he will assume too much risk at times and make poor decisions and throws. he is also a QB that tends to warm up as the game goes on as he gets into the flow, more of a strong finisher/slow starter. I think this is also a testament to his film study, adjusting to what the defense is giving him as the game goes on.

agreed. and i think with mcadoo calling the plays, we may see stronger starts next year.

In comment 12199072 JonC said:

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list the QBs you think are clearly superior to Eli. I fully recognize Eli's warts, but you'll be hard pressed to list ten QBs superior to him.

elite: brady, rogers, peyton and luck
next level: big ben, rivers, brees and eli

I hate to say it but what any of them carries very littlw weight because all most of them judge eli by is highlights or lowlights on sportscenter and NFL network. Just like the draft every year. most go on by what the experts say instead of actually watching and developing there own opinion. As for Eli not carrying the team onhis back at certain times thoughout his career,well that's just a falicy. He may not have carried them to a winning record,playoff,or superbowl year in and year out,but who does. Name one QB that has!?! his #'s in the postseason and the 2 biggest games of his career,wich he just happened to win MVP in by the way,says it all. HOw many QB's make that throw down the sideline between 2 defenders in the 4th quarter of the game winning drive in a superbowl? Not just any average to above average QB. That was Quite possibly the greatest throw and catch I've ever seen. I can't remember any better so I'm assuming it was. These are just some of the defining moments of Mannings career,and he's not done yet. You say your an avid Giants fan since 58?! Reading your statement I think qualifies you as an avid ameteaur at best. I think instead of listening to what others say you should probably go back, watch some of these games over again,as you are alot older and probably to senile to remember the poise and greatness he showed in these moments. Here's a few playoff games to rewatch. Against Dallas,Tampa,Greenbay,Sanfransisco,and both Superbowls. Then once you have given it some thought yourself instead of repeating what others say,then we can talk.

In comment 12199214 Les in TO said:

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In comment 12199072 JonC said: Quote: list the QBs you think are clearly superior to Eli. I fully recognize Eli's warts, but you'll be hard pressed to list ten QBs superior to him. elite: brady, rogers, peyton and luck next level: big ben, rivers, brees and eli

I agree with this although it's interesting to see Drew Brees drop out of the top tier (which I agree with).

yep, 8-10 is where I'd consistently put Eli.

if he played in a similar system to the one he's in now throughout his career

In comment 12199436 chillinman1183 said:

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I hate to say it but what any of them carries very littlw weight because all most of them judge eli by is highlights or lowlights on sportscenter and NFL network. Just like the draft every year. most go on by what the experts say instead of actually watching and developing there own opinion. As for Eli not carrying the team onhis back at certain times thoughout his career,well that's just a falicy. He may not have carried them to a winning record,playoff,or superbowl year in and year out,but who does. Name one QB that has!?! his #'s in the postseason and the 2 biggest games of his career,wich he just happened to win MVP in by the way,says it all. HOw many QB's make that throw down the sideline between 2 defenders in the 4th quarter of the game winning drive in a superbowl? Not just any average to above average QB. That was Quite possibly the greatest throw and catch I've ever seen. I can't remember any better so I'm assuming it was. These are just some of the defining moments of Mannings career,and he's not done yet. You say your an avid Giants fan since 58?! Reading your statement I think qualifies you as an avid ameteaur at best. I think instead of listening to what others say you should probably go back, watch some of these games over again,as you are alot older and probably to senile to remember the poise and greatness he showed in these moments. Here's a few playoff games to rewatch. Against Dallas,Tampa,Greenbay,Sanfransisco,and both Superbowls. Then once you have given it some thought yourself instead of repeating what others say,then we can talk.

Dear Sir,
First of all I am not senile,and ,although tempted will not throw insults back.
My comment to the originator of the thread,who asked how good is ELI, was,I responded by saying,Eli cannot carry the team TIME AND TIME AGAIN.He had an incredible run pulling out the Dallas game.He controlled the Tampa game.He was magnificant against Green Bay and was a warrior against S.F. especially being slammed over and over again.In S.B.46 he made one of the most incredible throws ever to Manningham.In S.B.42 Eli got EXTREMELY lucky throwing up the duck and Tyree came down with it.
Those events were awesome to watch and reminise(sp),but they were in 2007 and 2011.My point is I love the two super bowls,but other than those,there has been NO CONSISTENCY to an 11 year career.
The reason I speak of listening to the opinions of non-bias national media is we have no credibility.We are bias.It is like the parents who watch their supposed superstar kids play at any level;they cannot be objective.
The Giants have been my kids for a long time.I have suffered with their failures and relished in their victories and I know I am not always objective about "my children" Although,I love them I listen to folks who do not wear Blue colored glasses.
I conclude by saying,"If you are a Giant fan ,you are my brother and hope to see you again at another Super Bowl victory parade" BTW the parade in 2012 was one of the sweetest days I can remember.

In comment 12195706 Boatie Warrant said:

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How many players played better without Eli than with him? Only two guys that I am aware of. Visanthe Shiancoe and Martellus Bennett, just so you don't have to look it up. Tell me again how Eli is not a leader............

And even those aren't very accurate. MB was good with Eli, but Eli only had one season with him. VS never played much with Eli, which has less to do with Eli and more to do with the coaching staff.

Once again you are incorrect. In 2013 He had no supporting cast around him no did he,especially after nicks was injured and Victor cruz was being doubled and triple teamed. No running game whatsoever. Guys like Andre Brown.Peyton Hillis,and Brandon Jacobs in the backfield. 2 hasbeens and a never was. Plus as Mara stated,he was playing in a broken offense,wich subsequently forced Gilbride into retirement. Last year in a new Offense with not much of a supporting cast once again he had one of his finest seasons,and I only expect him to improve in year 2. I know my team well and the players on it. I have a good grasp on the game of football as well,obviously much better than yourself. You keep saying you love listening to the national media and fans of other teams.Obviously this is what your opinions are based on,because if you knew as much about football as what you think then after actually watching Eli develop over the past 11 seasons your conclusion and opinion of him would be dramatically different. I dn't care if you proclaim yourself a life long Giants fan or not,in my own opinion,wich is a conclusion of come to of my independent thought,you sir are not a real Giants fan. Not a true Giants fan anyway. You may have been a fan of football since 58 but it's very clear you have no idea how to evaluate players or talent. You don't make a decision about any player based off what the Media and other fans (say). Most of these people base there opinion around what they see and hear on sportscenter and NFL network,or (LISTENING TO WHAT OTHER PEOPLE SAY)... It's extremely difficult to remain consistent when there's no consistency around you,wich is exactly what's happened to Eli over the past few seasons. When he has had the support around him,and consistency,he has been very consistent. Leading them to the playoffs,championship games,and 2 superbowl titles. Now that he has some pieces around him on offense once again.If everyone comes back healthy and stays that way!?!You'll see the type of player Eli really is and we'll revisit this conversation at the same time next year. You can admit how wrong you truly were!! That is if you are capable of developing unique independent thought on your own?! If not just flip on NFL network or ESPN so you can repeat what they're saying.

In comment 12200667 chillinman1183 said:

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Once again you are incorrect. In 2013 He had no supporting cast around him no did he,especially after nicks was injured and Victor cruz was being doubled and triple teamed. No running game whatsoever. Guys like Andre Brown.Peyton Hillis,and Brandon Jacobs in the backfield. 2 hasbeens and a never was. Plus as Mara stated,he was playing in a broken offense,wich subsequently forced Gilbride into retirement. Last year in a new Offense with not much of a supporting cast once again he had one of his finest seasons,and I only expect him to improve in year 2. I know my team well and the players on it. I have a good grasp on the game of football as well,obviously much better than yourself. You keep saying you love listening to the national media and fans of other teams.Obviously this is what your opinions are based on,because if you knew as much about football as what you think then after actually watching Eli develop over the past 11 seasons your conclusion and opinion of him would be dramatically different. I dn't care if you proclaim yourself a life long Giants fan or not,in my own opinion,wich is a conclusion of come to of my independent thought,you sir are not a real Giants fan. Not a true Giants fan anyway. You may have been a fan of football since 58 but it's very clear you have no idea how to evaluate players or talent. You don't make a decision about any player based off what the Media and other fans (say). Most of these people base there opinion around what they see and hear on sportscenter and NFL network,or (LISTENING TO WHAT OTHER PEOPLE SAY)... It's extremely difficult to remain consistent when there's no consistency around you,wich is exactly what's happened to Eli over the past few seasons. When he has had the support around him,and consistency,he has been very consistent. Leading them to the playoffs,championship games,and 2 superbowl titles. Now that he has some pieces around him on offense once again.If everyone comes back healthy and stays that way!?!You'll see the type of player Eli really is and we'll revisit this conversation at the same time next year. You can admit how wrong you truly were!! That is if you are capable of developing unique independent thought on your own?! If not just flip on NFL network or ESPN so you can repeat what they're saying.

Sir,

First of all you sound like a very angry person and maybe therapy would help.Secondly,I love MY Giants.I have watched almost every game since the late fifties and as you SHOULD know,everyone can look at a game and see different things.Hence,the blue colored glasses become I very pertinent point.You,sir are a fool ,if you think I derive ALL of my opinions from National media.Every bit of data comes into play when deriving an opinion.A rational person draws from all sources.You,sir are obviously,not a rational person.I find it,particularly,interesting that you are hoping I will eat my words when we revisit this after Eli has a great year.SIR,I am totally with you on this.I want Eli to be successful.There's an old saying ,"Would you rather be right or happy"I would much rather Eli kicks the tar out of the league,than watch in anguish,week in and week out. Unfortunately,your perception of me,because I am critical of Eli,is I am not a true fan or knowledgeable.I am so very sorry for you that you only see what you want to see. I am also,very happy for you that your mom still lets you live in the basement apartment.

Not angry at all,very happily married with a 2 and a half year old daughter,in a very nice/expensive condo. :) I just simply )believe everything you've stated in your previous post couldn't be more off target. You stated above in one of your earlier post that you strongly consider what the media thinks and other fans. Now that I've called you on your shit you back peddle. It's not that I'm angry I just hate it when people babble on when they haven't a clue what they are talking about.

In comment 12201301 chillinman1183 said:
[quote] Not angry at all,very happily married with a 2 and a half year old daughter,in a very nice/expensive condo. :) I just simply )believe everything you've stated in your previous post couldn't be more off target. You stated above in one of your earlier post that you strongly consider what the media thinks and other fans. Now that I've called you on your shit you back peddle. It's not that I'm angry I just hate it when people babble on when they haven't a clue what they are talking about. [/quote

I QUIT!!!

that makes him a HOF QB in my book.