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How good is Eli?

banks58 : 3/20/2015 8:36 pm
2 Super Bowls is the 1st thing that comes to my mind. However, when thinking about it, I'm most impressed with his durability. He's definitely proven he can play through pain and injury. He's cerebral and puts in the work including the off season. He's not a "leader" but is described by his team mates as someone who bonds with them usually as a practical joker.
He fits the Giants fan base as a perfect role model and well liked by management in that regard. A perfect face for any team. His press conferences like "most" QB's are something any of us could predict what's going to be said.

Peel back the rind and look at stats and it's not pretty. We have a pocket passer with little to no mobility. A propensity to throw I'll timed INT's and accuracy is questionable. He's in the bottom 1/4 of the league in terms of arm strength(ball velocity) and that contributes in my option to more INT's.

In a nutshell, everything you want from a PR perspective, but not what I'm looking for in a QB. Numbers don't lie!

Curious what I missed, and your thoughts?
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Thunderdumbfuck27  
Peter in Atl : 3/20/2015 10:24 pm : link
You have no clue about his contract negotiation. None of us do. Eli is not in his LAST contract like Peyton and Tom. He has this one and one more because he's a lot younger. You can't make these comparisons. Why doesn't Wilson or Kap or even Brees play for a pittance? They're not team players
Ok  
banks58 : 3/20/2015 10:24 pm : link
I'm an old dude and feel like a bar fight broke out 21yr olds here! Since most of us are computer literate, let's find stats where Eli is above the top 50% in QB rankings?
It's not fantasy football, and stats don't always tell the whole story. Wins and loses us what it's all about. Lately at 20 million a year we're not seeing it. Fair enough?
This thread is  
dep026 : 3/20/2015 10:27 pm : link
the definition of pathetic.
Peter thank God you're in Atlanta  
Thunderstruck27 : 3/20/2015 10:27 pm : link
Actually Wilson played for peanuts because he was on his rookie contract...but nice try.
The only person you should be comparing him to at this point is Big Ben if that is your argument.
Ben just extended...
Dep  
banks58 : 3/20/2015 10:29 pm : link
Your points have some work. Go back to your first post and you'll find 3 mistakes!
RE: Thunderdumbfuck27  
dep026 : 3/20/2015 10:30 pm : link
In comment 12195597 Peter in Atl said:
Quote:
You have no clue about his contract negotiation. None of us do. Eli is not in his LAST contract like Peyton and Tom. He has this one and one more because he's a lot younger. You can't make these comparisons. Why doesn't Wilson or Kap or even Brees play for a pittance? They're not team players


Eli's last two cap hits were for over 20 million. Wanna know why? The prior three years it was 9, 12, and 14 million.... he kept restructing his contract so we could sign players.

Fucking selfish prick.
RE: Dep  
dep026 : 3/20/2015 10:31 pm : link
In comment 12195606 banks58 said:
Quote:
Your points have some work. Go back to your first post and you'll find 3 mistakes!


Go back to your initial post, realize nothing you said made any fucking sense, then delete this thread. You have been proven wrong by about 12 posters so far.
RE: Peter thank God you're in Atlanta  
Peter in Atl : 3/20/2015 10:32 pm : link
In comment 12195602 Thunderstruck27 said:
Quote:
Actually Wilson played for peanuts because he was on his rookie contract...but nice try.
The only person you should be comparing him to at this point is Big Ben if that is your argument.
Ben just extended...


What you fail to understand is you have no fucking clue as to what is going on with Eli's contract; right? Neither do I. His contract didn't have any influence on the signing of free agents. In other words, today, Eli's contract DOES NOT MATTER.
Sorry Pete  
dep026 : 3/20/2015 10:32 pm : link
I meant to quote thunderdunce.
RE: You guys can both blow me.  
djm : 3/20/2015 10:33 pm : link
In comment 12195577 Thunderstruck27 said:
Quote:
How does throwing a pick at the end of a half make him a team player?
His cap hit is huge and guys like Peyton and Brady are taking pay cuts.


Peyton and brady weren't taking pay cuts in their early 30s and fuck this saint Brady shit. Off topic and its just my wacky angry brain but I still don't trust this Brady pats touchy feely contract shit. That's just me tho.. And even if it's on the up and up fuck Brady anyway.

I can't even tolerate this new sports fan culture of obsessing over the contracts. It's truly ruining sports for me. The contracts are fine it's the constant whining from fans that sucks. We get it everyone is over paid enough already. Stop watching sports if it bothers u.
He's been in the top 3 cap hits in  
Thunderstruck27 : 3/20/2015 10:33 pm : link
2013,2014,and 2015

I'd have no problem with that if Eli led us to the playoffs in any of those years. The only thing he led was the NFL in turnovers.
His cap hit in 2012  
dep026 : 3/20/2015 10:34 pm : link
was 9 million. I doubt that led the league.
djm  
Thunderstruck27 : 3/20/2015 10:34 pm : link
it's part of the game now. When the NFL gets rid of the salary cap I'll stop whining about cap hits. Deal?
Djm  
Micko : 3/20/2015 10:35 pm : link
Perfect analysis imho.
Oh any by the way  
dep026 : 3/20/2015 10:35 pm : link
Eli is only one of 53 guys on the team, I think a lot of those players (throw in the coaches and executives) had more to do with not making the playoffs than Eli.
I'm on record  
djm : 3/20/2015 10:36 pm : link
2-3-4 years from now the pats will get busted cheating the cap. They get busted every few years doing some thing weird why not pull a 90s niners parlor trick. Wouldn't shock me.
Dep  
banks58 : 3/20/2015 10:37 pm : link
No more interest in you. I can't be wrong if I'm not arguing.
RE: Oh any by the way  
Thunderstruck27 : 3/20/2015 10:38 pm : link
In comment 12195619 dep026 said:
Quote:
Eli is only one of 53 guys on the team, I think a lot of those players (throw in the coaches and executives) had more to do with not making the playoffs than Eli.

Interesting that none of them except JPP this year get paid close to anything what Eli makes.
Dep  
Micko : 3/20/2015 10:40 pm : link
All-time great? Close - but no. That category is reserved for a select few.
RE: RE: Oh any by the way  
dep026 : 3/20/2015 10:42 pm : link
In comment 12195623 Thunderstruck27 said:
Quote:
In comment 12195619 dep026 said:


Quote:


Eli is only one of 53 guys on the team, I think a lot of those players (throw in the coaches and executives) had more to do with not making the playoffs than Eli.


Interesting that none of them except JPP this year get paid close to anything what Eli makes.


Interesting that the QB position gets paid more than any other position in football, isnt it?
So is the QB position important? or  
Thunderstruck27 : 3/20/2015 10:43 pm : link
does it not have much to do with making the playoffs...I'm confused by your retarded double speak
RE: Dep  
dep026 : 3/20/2015 10:43 pm : link
In comment 12195628 Micko said:
Quote:
All-time great? Close - but no. That category is reserved for a select few.


I agree, but its based on your definition of what an all-time great is. If you are saying he isnt in the class of his brother ,brady, montana, unitas.... then I agree 100%
RE: So is the QB position important? or  
dep026 : 3/20/2015 10:45 pm : link
In comment 12195633 Thunderstruck27 said:
Quote:
does it not have much to do with making the playoffs...I'm confused by your retarded double speak


Still waiting for you tell me how his 9 million cap hit in 2012 made him the highest against the cap.

And also how he restructured for 3 years to free up cap space makes him selfish.

Keeping using the word retarded, makes you look classy.
.....  
Micko : 3/20/2015 10:45 pm : link
If Eli builds on 2014 he'll be worth 20M per year. I'm still holding out hope that the new offense will allow Eli to reach another level.
Dep  
Micko : 3/20/2015 10:49 pm : link
Yup, that's what I'm saying. Eli is second tier imho. Just like Simms.
The fantasy football era  
blueblood : 3/20/2015 10:50 pm : link
IMO has made people stupid regarding football...

Eli has been playing ten years..

2 Superbowls.
2 Superbowl MVP's

39,755 yards passing on a team that actively tries to run a balanced offense. Not a pass first team.. will go over 40K this year.. and will easily hit 50K if he stays healty..

259 TD's which means he will eclipse 300 in at two years minimum...

So what he isnt Brady. Brees or Rodgers.. Big Whup...

Go back and visit the Kent Graham, Danny Kanell, Dave Brown days a QB..

Appreciate what you've got..
Here. Let me shut the Mouthbreathers up....  
CBSGameFace : 3/20/2015 10:59 pm : link
With a minimum of 10 Playoff games played, Eli has the best winning percentage amongst active QBs. Better than Brady, Rodgers and big brother, Peyton.

Player GS W L T Pct

Russell Wilson 8 6 2 0 0.750
Eli Manning 11 8 3 0 0.727
Tom Brady 29 21 8 0 0.724
Joe Flacco 15 10 5 0 0.667
Ben Roethlisberger 15 10 5 0 0.667
Colin Kaepernick 6 4 2 0 0.667
Mark Sanchez 6 4 2 0 0.667
Drew Brees 11 6 5 0 0.545
Aaron Rodgers 11 6 5 0 0.545
Andrew Luck 6 3 3 0 0.500
Rex Grossman 4 2 2 0 0.500
Matt Schaub 2 1 1 0 0.500
T.J. Yates 2 1 1 0 0.500
Jay Cutler 2 1 1 0 0.500
Peyton Manning 24 11 13 0 0.458

Nuff fucking said.


Blue  
banks58 : 3/20/2015 11:00 pm : link
You make the same mistake others do. You list the top 3 QB's and talk fantasy football. I posed a question before in what he's above the top half in? That's based on this year and every year he's been in the league. I gave him credit for for being durable. Super Bowls? That's a team win. MVP? Most Super Bowl wins go to the QB.
CBS  
banks58 : 3/20/2015 11:02 pm : link
That's a team win.
RE: Blue  
dep026 : 3/20/2015 11:06 pm : link
In comment 12195646 banks58 said:
Quote:
You make the same mistake others do. You list the top 3 QB's and talk fantasy football. I posed a question before in what he's above the top half in? That's based on this year and every year he's been in the league. I gave him credit for for being durable. Super Bowls? That's a team win. MVP? Most Super Bowl wins go to the QB.


You didnt answer...

what you wanted in a QB.
QB who have less flaws than him (outside the top 3)
And have been proven wrong about arm strength, mobility, and stats.

Kind of feel out of place in this useless thread?
RE: CBS  
CBSGameFace : 3/20/2015 11:07 pm : link
In comment 12195649 banks58 said:
Quote:
That's a team win.


I'm just talking QBs, starts and playoffs. His winning % in the playoffs is ridiculous. And if Gilbride doesn't have his head up his ass in that playoff game against Philly, Eli would have three SBs and this thread wouldn't even exist.

With all due respect...
Losing seasons add to his stats  
banks58 : 3/20/2015 11:07 pm : link
Playing from behind and being durable lead to yards and garbage all time stats.
RE: CBS  
dep026 : 3/20/2015 11:07 pm : link
In comment 12195649 banks58 said:
Quote:
That's a team win.


Arent stats part of a team as well? Blocking, catching, YAC. Seems like you need more than 1player to accumulate stats.
RE: Losing seasons add to his stats  
dep026 : 3/20/2015 11:08 pm : link
In comment 12195655 banks58 said:
Quote:
Playing from behind and being durable lead to yards and garbage all time stats.


Playing from behind also leads to INTs and low % percentage, does it not?

I never seen a poster be so more wrong on a thread in my life than you are here, and thats an accomplishment for the history of BBI.
Banks  
blueblood : 3/20/2015 11:10 pm : link
for me.. Eli is more than good enough.. I dont care what other people think about Eli.. I appreciate him for who he is and what he has done..

Peyton.. One ring..
Brees.. One ring....
Rodgers.. One ring..
Rivers.. ZERO rings...

Ben.. Two rings...

Brady.. Four Rings.. Might have been SIX..

except for that Eli kid ruined the party..

SO Ill take that and enjoy the hell out of it..
RE: RE: So is the QB position important? or  
Thunderstruck27 : 3/20/2015 11:31 pm : link
In comment 12195635 dep026 said:
Quote:
In comment 12195633 Thunderstruck27 said:


Quote:


does it not have much to do with making the playoffs...I'm confused by your retarded double speak



Still waiting for you tell me how his 9 million cap hit in 2012 made him the highest against the cap.

And also how he restructured for 3 years to free up cap space makes him selfish.

Keeping using the word retarded, makes you look classy.

1. I never said that his 2012 number was highest. But 2013, 14, and 15 he was top 3 QB...I said that in another post.
2. I never called him selfish. I said he should extend. He did restructure...thanks Eli.
3. re·tard·ed
rəˈtärdÉ™d/
adjective
datedoffensive
less advanced in mental, physical, or social development than is usual for one's age.
informaloffensive
very foolish or stupid.
"in retrospect, it was a totally retarded idea"
Blue is fair  
banks58 : 3/20/2015 11:33 pm : link
Dep....I haven't been proven wrong on any of the points I've mentioned.
We're rooting for the same team here. Also, I posed the original question of how good is Eli? You were looking for me to answer when I posed a question?
Now, top 50% in 3 categories? Wadda got? Please don't bring up Super Bowls and TEAM wins. Again, we're on the same side here.
RE: Blue is fair  
dep026 : 3/20/2015 11:39 pm : link
In comment 12195673 banks58 said:
Quote:
Dep....I haven't been proven wrong on any of the points I've mentioned.
We're rooting for the same team here. Also, I posed the original question of how good is Eli? You were looking for me to answer when I posed a question?
Now, top 50% in 3 categories? Wadda got? Please don't bring up Super Bowls and TEAM wins. Again, we're on the same side here.


You said his arm strength is in the bottom 1/4th in the league
You said he has no mobility

Both are the furthest from the truth and completely false.

To answer your "stat" - Ill even just do top 10, not even top 16 to prove a point.

Passes completed - 6 times
Passing TDs - 8 times
Passing yards - 5 times
Passing attempts - 6 times

Go to bed.
Passing yards - 5 times
Dep  
banks58 : 3/20/2015 11:46 pm : link
Wtf are you talking about? Are you drunk?
RE: Dep  
dep026 : 3/20/2015 11:49 pm : link
In comment 12195677 banks58 said:
Quote:
Wtf are you talking about? Are you drunk?


I proved what you said in the original post as wrong.

And then I provided stats that you wanted (where Eli finished in the top 50% in the NFL) where Eli finished top 10 (which is a lot higher than in the top 16 in which you wanted) in the NFL. Not hard stuff buddy. Try to keep up. I am making you look like a fool.
Brady didn't take a pay cut, he got a raise  
OdellBeckhamJr : 3/21/2015 12:15 am : link
check out his signing bonus
I usually stay away from these threads...  
okiegiant : 3/21/2015 12:17 am : link
because you're never going to convince someone of something they don't want to believe, but a couple of posters on this one(and I think we know who they are)are takin' a whoopin'!
Dep  
banks58 : 3/21/2015 12:22 am : link
I'm done. I should have stayed away when I originally said I was. You're 100% wrong in your stats. Why I wasted the time to check you BS is on me. I'm not sure what you were looking to get out of this but you completely blew this thread.
So banks58  
Boatie Warrant : 3/21/2015 12:38 am : link
Eli (easily a future HOF QB) is "not what I'm looking for in a QB" ? Then you are obviously looking for the wrong things in a QB IMO
By the way  
Boatie Warrant : 3/21/2015 12:51 am : link
How many players played better without Eli than with him?

Only two guys that I am aware of. Visanthe Shiancoe and Martellus Bennett, just so you don't have to look it up. Tell me again how Eli is not a leader............
Damn good  
rocco8112 : 3/21/2015 5:54 am : link
.
He's good enough to win two SBs and  
Jimmy Googs : 3/21/2015 6:06 am : link
maybe even one more in his career if the stars align.

He's also bad enough to throw 4 or 5 picks in a game at any time.

There is your range...
RE: Dep  
dep026 : 3/21/2015 6:40 am : link
In comment 12195698 banks58 said:
Quote:
I'm done. I should have stayed away when I originally said I was. You're 100% wrong in your stats. Why I wasted the time to check you BS is on me. I'm not sure what you were looking to get out of this but you completely blew this thread.


I am 100% wrong with my stats huh? My rankings are wrong? I guess football reference is wrong as well.

The only thing I ruined is your ego because you looked like a complete idiot. Arm strength, mobility, and stats - you didnt get a single thing right. I told you to delete this garbage as soon as you posted it.


Banks58 looking like a moron - ( New Window )
RE: He's good enough to win two SBs and  
JCin332 : 3/21/2015 6:52 am : link
In comment 12195724 Jimmy Googs said:
Quote:
maybe even one more in his career if the stars align.

He's also bad enough to throw 4 or 5 picks in a game at any time.

There is your range...


Hmm you could be describing Peyton, Brees, Rodgers just to name a few..
No, I don't think so. Those guys are not  
Jimmy Googs : 3/21/2015 6:57 am : link
as consistently sloppy with ints like Eli. Brees has a little more bravado and that causes his number of picks to rise, but all these guys take care of the ball better.

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