How good is Eli?

should delete threads like this before they escalate. From looking at his profile, he is a 3/15 so obviously he is looking to create a stir or controversy to make himself known (or reknown since he may as very well be a dupe.) He is going to bring up the most controversial player on the team (sad how people still strike him down) just so he can cause a stir here at BBI. And shame on me for taking the bait, but it happens when you are up watching basketball....

As far the original post and the signs you knew what he was doing. Not your typical "leader", poor arm strength, no mobility... some of the things in which Eli is widely renown for in the league, so right off the bat the OP agenda was clear. And even when his original premesis was knocked down by many posters, he was still fighting the good fight.... just to keep the thread going.

And I understand I am Eli's biggest defender here at BBI, but its these kinds of threads that are just not needed here at BBI. You wanna talk about his contract, thats fine because its is going to be a big deal when it is done. However, when asking the OP what kind of QB he wanted or when showing stats that proved his theories wrong, you just dont get anything back in return.

The majority of BBI (cant say all given some posters continually pecking him down) know what we have in Eli. A player who can make all the throws, doesnt wilt under pressure, a tough SOB who says and does all the right things with the media. He will force throws (which leads to high INT totals), his short passing game isnt the most accurate at times, and will throw absolute stinkers 1-2 a year. However, when it is all said and done, he usually puts us to win in the majority of the games we play. Now we havent made the playoffs the last few years, however I think we have a lot weaker positions to worry about.

It's my fault I took the bait from the OP, but it's clearly the he either has an agenda or is very ignorant of what Eli can and already has done for this organization.

In comment 12195737 Jimmy Googs said:

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as consistently sloppy with ints like Eli. Brees has a little more bravado and that causes his number of picks to rise, but all these guys take care of the ball better.

I think you overrate Drew Brees. If you watched Saints games this year, his turnovers turned out to be difference makers in games. I would never put Brees in the category of the Rodgers, Bradys, or Peytons. Actually I think those 3 are on a much higher level than Brees.

In comment 12195737 Jimmy Googs said:

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as consistently sloppy with ints like Eli. Brees has a little more bravado and that causes his number of picks to rise, but all these guys take care of the ball better.

Well now he is running the same type of offense those other guys have running their whole careers so if last year is any guide his stats particularly int's will go down..

But he is willing to take chances and if he hadn't (helmet catch, Manningham) in those 2 SB's the Giants don't win those games..and imho those other 3 guys would never have thrown those balls..

In comment 12195614 Thunderstruck27 said:

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2013,2014,and 2015 I'd have no problem with that if Eli led us to the playoffs in any of those years. The only thing he led was the NFL in turnovers.

You're a dumb cunt. Stop posting forever?

In comment 12195741 dep026 said:

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In comment 12195737 Jimmy Googs said: Quote: as consistently sloppy with ints like Eli. Brees has a little more bravado and that causes his number of picks to rise, but all these guys take care of the ball better. I think you overrate Drew Brees. If you watched Saints games this year, his turnovers turned out to be difference makers in games. I would never put Brees in the category of the Rodgers, Bradys, or Peytons. Actually I think those 3 are on a much higher level than Brees.

I agree those 3 are higher too. But I am not over-rating Brees just qualifying him has lesser than the 3 and a bit less sloppier than Eli.

he's not a top five QB but who cares. He doesn't need to be. Eli is a bona fide franchise QB. He's a top 10 QB in the league and has been for a long time. That's good enough to win Superbowls if the team as a whole is good. The team hasn't been good enough or healthy enough in recent years.

In comment 12195779 Jimmy Googs said:

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In comment 12195741 dep026 said: Quote: In comment 12195737 Jimmy Googs said: Quote: as consistently sloppy with ints like Eli. Brees has a little more bravado and that causes his number of picks to rise, but all these guys take care of the ball better. I think you overrate Drew Brees. If you watched Saints games this year, his turnovers turned out to be difference makers in games. I would never put Brees in the category of the Rodgers, Bradys, or Peytons. Actually I think those 3 are on a much higher level than Brees. I agree those 3 are higher too. But I am not over-rating Brees just qualifying him has lesser than the 3 and a bit less sloppier than Eli.

Not unreasonable. You have to understand that I am not a huge Brees fan. I have him closer to top 10 than top 5. haha

argument with one post and it was completely ignored by the op. Well done, Homer.

Favre, IMO. Gunslinger that sometimes believes he'd better win this game on his own or else accept a loss. Eli is a quite leader.

The OP claims that Eli is not a leader but he is according to teammates. I've heard quite a few players over the years say that. He's not a screamer and that's what I think you meant to say.

His accuracy when throwing the deep ball is exceptional. Short passes were never his forte. The fact that he starts every game at the most important position cannot be underrated.

In comment 12195737 Jimmy Googs said:

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as consistently sloppy with ints like Eli. Brees has a little more bravado and that causes his number of picks to rise, but all these guys take care of the ball better.

I don't know about Brees, he has almost 200 career int's as well(although he has played longer)and has some fumble issues. He has also thrown more than 20 picks in a season.

Stats can be skewed no matter which side of the discussion you're on. I prefer the eye test and to me(imho)Manning is pretty darn good.

He was wrong. A long ball with an arc can't travel at 56mph. Also, 48 mph when it landed? Lol.....the author of that article was a joke. He said "about 56 mph" I ignored it because it was inane. He guessed! Rodgers knowing he's being timed can't hit over 58 throwing a 10yd bullet.

I'm interested in how Luck looks in 5 years or so.

did you read the article?

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John Eric Goff, a professor of physics at Lynchburg College in Virginia and the author of “Gold Medal Physics: The Science of Sports,” carefully assessed the video of Beckham’s catch and determined that Manning’s pass had traveled about 55 yards of horizontal distance on its way to Beckham’s right hand. The ball ascended on its path down the field until it was 10 yards higher than Manning’s hand, and it left Manning’s hand at about 56 miles per hour. By the time it arrived at the point where Beckham was jostling with Dallas cornerback Brandon Carr, the football was speeding along at about 46 miles an hour.

So this physics dude using actual data just made it all up? Maybe he is wrong, but just made it up? Go back and watch the play and tell me there was no arm strength involved.

everyone else is wrong except the OP. He is making a mockery of this site. Probably just on his 6th or 7th handle.

He STILL cant admit he is wrong on anything he has stated. Need more stats backing Eli being in the top 10 for a lot of year in every passing category?

He's good enough for me, and I don't feel the need to expand on that for the amusement of some schmuck troll with an agenda looking to start a fight. I'll just say Go Fuck Yourself and move on to another thread.

you need to switch to decaf, buddy.

Who gives two shits what a couple of morons think?

Especially, when they prove, without a shadow of a doubt, that they don't know shit about the game.

Now this one is more about Beckham(or Becky as a few of our more famous colleagues were calling him last summer)but watch the video and listen to what Dr. Jung says..."he's throwing(Manning)about 50mph".

Let the arm strength thing go.

One last comment, I didn't link it because it was a slideshow from Bleacher Report, but they had Manning at 15th out of 32 in arm strength(it was 2012 the most recent I could find)in front of players like Rivers and Ryan.

Manning isn't the greatest ever, and he has many flaws, but when arguing his good and bad we should dig in to the stats and not just look at the surface.
physics, maybe the earth is flat? - ( New Window )

In comment 12195873 dorgan said:

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you need to switch to decaf, buddy. Who gives two shits what a couple of morons think? Especially, when they prove, without a shadow of a doubt, that they don't know shit about the game.

Haha. I was not in a good mood last night. Was it that obvious?

Don't waste your time on these two trolls. You are giving these losers exactly what they want just ignore them it's not worth it.

March 2015.

draw your own conclusions.

In comment 12195888 Jay on the Island said:

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Don't waste your time on these two trolls. You are giving these losers exactly what they want just ignore them it's not worth it.

Jay, I don't consider them trolls. They are proven to be assholes. There is a difference. For example, I have a brother who never posts on sports sites. He's a Jets fan. Whenever the Giants or a Giant's player is brought up, he immediately transforms into a stage III asshole.

It happens when a team like the Giants has either beaten their team badly in a critical game or has accomplished far more than the "asshole's" team has.

I've been here longer than most of you! This is only my 2nd handle because of the recent issues.
I went to camp and provided reports along with Marty. I met many BBI members when they had their get together in Albany. HopeJ and Bob in Annapolis were great and missed. Eric is enjoyable to have conversation and I gave my donation in cash when I saw him. Lay off the dupe topic.
I have noticed most of the people I met no longer post or have decided it's not worth it. SOTI....remember him? Yeah, gone! The only remaining posters are bb56,Eric,Britt in Va and George in Manhattan. Once in awhile gidiefor will come on.
My topic was simply asking for your thoughts. It turned into a pissing match. Ask 5 fans that root for different teams there thoughts about Eli? See what you get. I have no agenda. I was curious asking on a Giants forum. Is that wrong now? If also invite you to re-read my original post.

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He's not a "leader" but is described by his team mates as someone who bonds with them usually as a practical joker. Peel back the rind and look at stats and it's not pretty. We have a pocket passer with little to no mobility. A propensity to throw I'll timed INT's and accuracy is questionable. He's in the bottom 1/4 of the league in terms of arm strength(ball velocity) and that contributes in my option to more INT's. In a nutshell, everything you want from a PR perspective, but not what I'm looking for in a QB. Numbers don't lie!

Let me break it down for you.

1. He isnt a "leader". Now how are you going to be put in a position where YOU can make that claim. Based off what? Tiki barber about 10 years ago? Every report said Eli is a leader in the locker room, is one of the hardest working Giants, and works constantly to get better.

2. He has no mobility. About 10 posters have said his mobility in the pocket is one of his greatest strengths. Most pundits have it one of the best in the league. No, he isnt going to scramble for 15-20 yards, he isnt like Romo who just runs around in the backfield. But he is excellent and finding the lane he needs to throw too.

3. He throws ill-timed INTs. I'll give you that one.

4. Arm strength being in the bottom 1/4th. Well first, how do you know? Did you measure every single QBs arm in the league? Next, who cares if it was. His arm is certainly stronger than Peytons, and he has done ok in his career. Same with Matt Ryan and Philip Rivers. Refer back to my Jeff George analogy as why it doesnt matter hwo strong your arm is. Jamarcus Russell had a fantastic arm, where is he now?

5. His stats. I slaready showed you how he has ranked in the top 10 in the NFL in yards, attempts, completions, and TDs for the majority of his career. You wanted him in the upper half, well he is even better than that. He is in the top 10.

So again, lot of your original post is speculation on your part, not backed up by facts or statistics. And when a poster shows you when you are wrong, you ignore them or basically flat out say they are wrong, even when backed up. You didnt want to start a discussion, you would looking to stir the pot, and failed miserably. Now for the sake of the board.... admit you were wrong and/or ignorant and move along. You have embarrassed yourself enough on this thread.

1) I have the privilege of sitting with Chris Mara each year at an annual Rick Pittino event, put on for a deceased client. I'm a SR vp at a major brokerage firm. It's held at Saratoga national and Bill Parcells is also in attendance. They poke fun over drinks about Eli when he tries to give a speech or lead. He's known as a practical joker and that's how he gets through to the team. I gave him credit for his work Ethic in my original post. It's more than Tiki. Coughlin has spoke to him many times about being more vocal. Strahan called him Opie. Yes, I'm frustrated when I see other QB's get emotional and watch Eli simply shrug his shoulders.
2) mobility can't be put into a stat. Romo creates plays and Big Ben is hard to take down. Eli leads in turnovers trying to get rid of the ball when he has scrambled. Fumbles need to enter that conversation too.
3) we're in agreement.
4) stats. I think that goes back to durability and playing from behind, no? An all time list of what he's done has to be put into context of today's NFL. It's also the reason I posed the original question. You were kind enough to provide the info....thank you! Why you added smug remarks is on you.
5) you said this thread would get no traction. Aside from talking about McDonalds, It seems to have plenty of hits for responses. Would you like to discuss a bigmac on a Giants forum?
Bottom line is I looked for a discussion about Giants football and have had little success in proving to others how good a player Eli is when speaking with fans if it her teams. You gave me a good list if things to discuss. Thank you....

and being emotional and yelling is often counter productive.

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I'm a SR vp at a major brokerage firm.

Also, please acknowledge many posters have presented stats and other opinions you have chosen to ignore.

Also, I would be shocked if Mara ever said Manning wasn't a leader in public.

What did I ignore?

what did you think of Fewell's defense? Would you consider it too complex?

In comment 12196068 banks58 said:

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1) I have the privilege of sitting with Chris Mara each year at an annual Rick Pittino event, put on for a deceased client. I'm a SR vp at a major brokerage firm. It's held at Saratoga national and Bill Parcells is also in attendance. They poke fun over drinks about Eli when he tries to give a speech or lead. He's known as a practical joker and that's how he gets through to the team. I gave him credit for his work Ethic in my original post. It's more than Tiki. Coughlin has spoke to him many times about being more vocal. Strahan called him Opie. Yes, I'm frustrated when I see other QB's get emotional and watch Eli simply shrug his shoulders. 2) mobility can't be put into a stat. Romo creates plays and Big Ben is hard to take down. Eli leads in turnovers trying to get rid of the ball when he has scrambled. Fumbles need to enter that conversation too. 3) we're in agreement. 4) stats. I think that goes back to durability and playing from behind, no? An all time list of what he's done has to be put into context of today's NFL. It's also the reason I posed the original question. You were kind enough to provide the info....thank you! Why you added smug remarks is on you. 5) you said this thread would get no traction. Aside from talking about McDonalds, It seems to have plenty of hits for responses. Would you like to discuss a bigmac on a Giants forum? Bottom line is I looked for a discussion about Giants football and have had little success in proving to others how good a player Eli is when speaking with fans if it her teams. You gave me a good list if things to discuss. Thank you....

To be quite frank, I think you are full of shit and dont know your ass from a football.

Just an absolutely pathetic thread from a previous banned poster.

Not complex at all. It was a mix between a Tampa 2 and cover 2. He had to make adjustments due to injury and talent.

I was seeing if you were Jersey Joe back with yet another handle.

In comment 12196089 banks58 said:

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What did I ignore?

My friend, almost everything posted! That Manning finishing in the upper half of the league many times in many categories, the arm strength debunking...so many...I don't get it.

I don't think you wanted to actually discuss anything(benefit of the doubt and not saying what some posters have)I think you wanted to chunk your own opinions out(which is certainly okay but several of them are so wrong)and you were surprised when you were hit with factual responses.

If you have been here for awhile, as you state, you know how Manning threads go. I've seen this same thread a dozen times a year since 2004(well 2005, really)and it almost always ends the same way. Your opinions(which are okay)are not completely supported by the facts.

Manning isn't the best ever, but he is not awful. Tell me, what do you want from your QB(this was asked before and I don't believe answered)? If you want Brady. Rodgers , Luck, Elway or Montana...well there aren't many of those out there. If you want less of a cap hit, well so do I, but it is what it is. What do you want and where doesn't Manning meet your expectations?

No agenda. That's what seems to keep getting missed on this thread. Everything I've said has been asking for opinion. You can see I how I got it!! Arm strength has been a major focus. I believe I said thank you to Dep and you saw the response I got.

In comment 12196144 banks58 said:

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No agenda. That's what seems to keep getting missed on this thread. Everything I've said has been asking for opinion. You can see I how I got it!! Arm strength has been a major focus. I believe I said thank you to Dep and you saw the response I got.

If you could admit that you have been wrong on a lot of areas, you would get more positive, worth while discussion. But you have dismissed just about everything thrown to you and come back with ridiculous personal stories that no one believes.

Again, what have I dismissed? Honestly, is it that hard to answer? We had great posters in here before. Many have left for this very reason! What did I dismiss?

In comment 12195751 Randy in CT said:

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You're a dumb cunt. Stop posting forever?

Damn Randy? Got sand in your clit this morning?

Before you answer, the "stories" I shared are true. That's you 1st mistake!

In comment 12196177 banks58 said:

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Before you answer, the "stories" I shared are true. That's you 1st mistake!

Okay...

He is the best QB this franchise has ever had and when given the proper protection he is a surgical killer. He carried the team on his back in 2011. And to be fair he has never had really elite talent surrounding him. Nicks in his prime and OBJ now. A bunch of journeymen TE's and poor running game for nearly half of his career. also a bottom tier defense in 2011. His greatness will not be appreciated until we have a geno smith like successor.

I owe you an apology on the personal stories subject. That was from Dep.
Sorry...

if you really i mean really don think Eli is good or trust him enough hop off the Ryan Nassib fan club and join some shitty team with some one similar to nassib or better. I'm putting this down now nassib is no Jeff hostetler if he had to start the whole 2014 season in eli's shoes maybe we win 3 games. maybe. Im starting to hate nassib because of all of this "nassib should start over Eli" BS just stop it.

That's all this is. Clearly this guy has no fucking clue who he's talking about,or what he's talking about. I dn't need to post any stats,or how hard he throws. You just make yourself seem less intelligent the more you speak. How many quarterbacks make that throw down the sideline to Manningham on a game winning drive in the superbowl. Definitely not you (Average) QB. Just look at how he's thrived in the postseason and nevermind all the other bullshit you listed to try and make your point,rather unsuccessfully I might add. You do not bleed blue by the way. No true Giants fan would even entertain this notion. I dn't care if you've been a member since 99 or 59,that proves absolutely nothing. By the way,YOU'RE AN IDIOT!!!

In comment 12195614 Thunderstruck27 said:

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2013,2014,and 2015 I'd have no problem with that if Eli led us to the playoffs in any of those years. The only thing he led was the NFL in turnovers.

I wonder what team you're a fan of. I'm gonna guess Dallas. You have an infatuation with our QB. Very understandable for a fan of a team that has Romo for a QB. All stats and no ring. GFY.

Ya it's all on Eli that we haven't made the playoff the past 3 years. Here's another one who likes to hear himself breathe from the mouth. Haha... I can tell because you speak like a 12 year old trying to induce a response by questioning my loyalty. :)

more years to pass complete judgement. Like many here I believe many of his interceptions can be attributed to the Gilbride system. Under just 1 year in this new system his interception rate dropped dramatically. He just had one of his best years and it's the first year in this new system.

Really hoping to see Eli's numbers with a healthy Cruz, Beckham, Vereen, etc this year.

Eli has done it twice. THat's all that fucking matters!

Eli could literally start the 2015 season by taking a big shit all over the field and never play another down and he'd still be a NYG legend. The judgement was reached in Feb 2008. And then it was reinforced in Feb 2012. Eli was is and always will be a football God for this NYG franchise.

IT's all about the super bowls. Eli closed the deal twice. LOL...TWICE!! And he's not done yet.

Any fan looking for more or questioning Eli's worth just lacks perspective. Simple as that.

as much as it was directed at the OP.

IT was exhausting having to defend Eli from 2005-2007 because the fans were relentless and refused to see any positives from Eli while expecting greatness from a young individual still ascending within a team dynamic that needed other players to ascend along with him in order for the team to reach greatness. The QB is the most important player but the whole team needs to play well. Some fans just can't wrap their head around this fact.

Eli was always unfairly bashed even during his lowest of lows. Most QBs get too much love or too much hate but with Eli it went way beyond the norm.

I won't lie I was never more emotionally invested in a player's fortunes than Eli. I went out of my way to defend him and always loved how Eli carried himself here in NY. As he went, I went. I might have even been a little too loyal or subjective --I can admit that now. I probably defended him at times when he did deserve some criticism. But once Eli and the Giants won super bowl 42 it was like a weight was lifted off my shoulders..I just didn't care anymore when fans got on him--and for a year or so no one said a word. Then he wins it all again in 2011...and now I just find these kinds of threads laughable. None of this shit matters anymore. Eli defenders shouldn't let this shit get to them...these people getting all analytical and critical and "honest" just don't get it. Let them critique the guy's game. Ten years from now these same apes will be waxing poetic about Eli and bashing the new QB. IT's what they do...they observe from a warped perspective and use stats to support their flawed logic. And you know what they say about stats.

Stats are a somewhat fair and logical way to analyze a player's worth but in the end you go by the pelts. You go by what that player brought to the franchise. Eli brought EVERYTHING to this franchise. He enabled apes like you and I to sit at a poker table and laugh when the Niner or Dallas or Eagle or Skins or Jets or Pats fan tries to talk shit. Nothing tops that.

and guarantee that 10 other QBs would have come in here from 2005 through 2014 and won MORE than one super bowl...well...we agree to disagree.

Maybe a guy like Tony Romo lights up the stat sheets here if he's a Giant all these years. I don't doubt that he does. The guy can play. I don't doubt that Romo, thanks in part to his own gifted skill set, maybe even leads the Giants to more postseasons and more regular season success than Eli did in the same time line. I can't dismiss Romo's abilities nor should anyone else. Maybe Romo wins more playoff games here than Eli's 8. Again, anything is possible.

But to sit here and proclaim with even a hint of certainty that Romo or Rivers or Ben or even Aaron Fucking Rodgers or Tom fucking BRady would win ONE, let alone TWO super bowls is completely laughable. Winning the super bowl is akin to winning the lottery. So much luck and timimg is involved. Romo may get hurt in a playoff run--Rivers may not connect on that critical pass in a playoff game...maybe Big Ben is in jail if he's a QB in this area....maybe Brady never is Tom Brady without the comfy confines of New England. Who the fuck knows. Every team sport is predicated on luck, timing, karma and talent. Some of the best players ever didn't win a title because the winds of karma blew the wrong way at just the wrong time.

Eli was the karma. If you can't see it, then I feel sorry for you.

Eli is clutch/has ice in his veins - it means he can step up in the biggest moments, but it also means he will assume too much risk at times and make poor decisions and throws. he is also a QB that tends to warm up as the game goes on as he gets into the flow, more of a strong finisher/slow starter.

In comment 12198845 Les in TO said:

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Eli is clutch/has ice in his veins - it means he can step up in the biggest moments, but it also means he will assume too much risk at times and make poor decisions and throws. he is also a QB that tends to warm up as the game goes on as he gets into the flow, more of a strong finisher/slow starter.

I think this is also a testament to his film study, adjusting to what the defense is giving him as the game goes on.

Just to qualify myself,I have been a avid Giant fan since 1958.Sometimes,fans get caught up in loyalty and sometimes they are hypercritical.You know the half full/half empty syndrome.
I will forever be greatful to Eli for his ROLE in two Super Bowl victories.I have never seen Eli as elite.To be elite ,a quarterback,must be able to carry a team on his back time and time again.Eli has never been able to do that.What Eli is is a very important piece of the puzzle,that turned two rather average teams into Super Bowl winners.
To truly assess Eli's standing in the hierarchy of NFL QB's,one must look at what the out of towners think of Eli.Although nobody is 100% objective,the national sportscasters and writers gives us the best chance at objectivity.
Eli is perceived by the national media and out of town fans as inconsistent,running hot and cold,another words rather average.I am sorry to upset those fans who wear BLUE colored glasses ,but those are the facts.