How good is Eli?

And didn't carry the team on his back. Really? Thrn show me a qb who did.

In comment 12199021 Giant Blue said:

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Just to qualify myself,I have been a avid Giant fan since 1958.Sometimes,fans get caught up in loyalty and sometimes they are hypercritical.You know the half full/half empty syndrome. I will forever be greatful to Eli for his ROLE in two Super Bowl victories.I have never seen Eli as elite.To be elite ,a quarterback,must be able to carry a team on his back time and time again.Eli has never been able to do that.What Eli is is a very important piece of the puzzle,that turned two rather average teams into Super Bowl winners. To truly assess Eli's standing in the hierarchy of NFL QB's,one must look at what the out of towners think of Eli.Although nobody is 100% objective,the national sportscasters and writers gives us the best chance at objectivity. Eli is perceived by the national media and out of town fans as inconsistent,running hot and cold,another words rather average.I am sorry to upset those fans who wear BLUE colored glasses ,but those are the facts.

Amazing that a fan of this team for so long, has a glass is empty view of the Qb that brought him 2 SBs so far. I'm not going to try to convince you nor the assmonkey/troll thread starter about Eli's value to the team. Nor will I argue about a subjective term like "elite".

When he's on he's capable of getting white hot, and has won it all twice. The NFL is a bit watered down over the past ten years, but he's still one of how many SB winners?

When his pass blocking stinks, then his decision making, his mechanics, eye level, and overall performance often all go to hell. He's human.

list the QBs you think are clearly superior to Eli.

I fully recognize Eli's warts, but you'll be hard pressed to list ten QBs superior to him.

In comment 12199060 JonC said:

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When he's on he's capable of getting white hot, and has won it all twice. The NFL is a bit watered down over the past ten years, but he's still one of how many SB winners? When his pass blocking stinks, then his decision making, his mechanics, eye level, and overall performance often all go to hell. He's human.

Going into next year, there are only 3 QBs who I am comfortable in saying that will be flat out better than him:
Rodgers, Luck, Brady

Now there are lot of other QBs like Peyton, Brees, Rivers, Romo, Ben, Ryan, WIlson that can absolutely have better years than him but htey all have question marks.

Is Peyton healthy?
Brees supporting cast?
Romo losing Murray
Rivers supporting cast
Wilson's next step of improvement
Ryan not sucking in big games

I think the top 3 will establish themselves clearly as the best, but there is no reason why Eli cant play like a top 5 QB in the league still. I bet he plays closer to 5 than 15 this year, but you never know.

But seriously, if you think he can't carry a team, just revisit the NFC championship game against the Niners in 2012. Eli had a heroic performance on a day where they couldn't run at all and he was under attack all day. 58 pass attempts that day.

He may always look like a dork and be totally uncoordinated but he is a true champ when the game is on the line and is super clutch.
Link - ( New Window )

In comment 12199021 Giant Blue said:

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Just to qualify myself,I have been a avid Giant fan since 1958.Sometimes,fans get caught up in loyalty and sometimes they are hypercritical.You know the half full/half empty syndrome. I will forever be greatful to Eli for his ROLE in two Super Bowl victories.I have never seen Eli as elite.To be elite ,a quarterback,must be able to carry a team on his back time and time again.Eli has never been able to do that.What Eli is is a very important piece of the puzzle,that turned two rather average teams into Super Bowl winners. To truly assess Eli's standing in the hierarchy of NFL QB's,one must look at what the out of towners think of Eli.Although nobody is 100% objective,the national sportscasters and writers gives us the best chance at objectivity. Eli is perceived by the national media and out of town fans as inconsistent,running hot and cold,another words rather average.I am sorry to upset those fans who wear BLUE colored glasses ,but those are the facts.

The FACTS also indicate that ELI carried this team when it mattered most. Just look at where our Defense and running games ranked when we won the superbowls.

Another fact is only 2 players had better stats without Eli than with him. That shows Eli elevates the level of play of those around him.

Was not QB-friendly in the least.

Eli with arguably less on the OL and at receiver collectively than most years in the TC regime AND a half-season learning curve with the new offense ended up with the second best season of his career.

I don't think the previous O allowed us to see what Eli is capable of especially statistic wise.

If he stays healthy and the offense has close to the overall talent of previous years, I am confident that his numbers would begin to resemble the top Qbs in the league.

In comment 12198850 Britt in VA said:

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In comment 12198845 Les in TO said: Quote: Eli is clutch/has ice in his veins - it means he can step up in the biggest moments, but it also means he will assume too much risk at times and make poor decisions and throws. he is also a QB that tends to warm up as the game goes on as he gets into the flow, more of a strong finisher/slow starter. I think this is also a testament to his film study, adjusting to what the defense is giving him as the game goes on.

agreed. and i think with mcadoo calling the plays, we may see stronger starts next year.

In comment 12199072 JonC said:

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list the QBs you think are clearly superior to Eli. I fully recognize Eli's warts, but you'll be hard pressed to list ten QBs superior to him.

elite: brady, rogers, peyton and luck
next level: big ben, rivers, brees and eli

I hate to say it but what any of them carries very littlw weight because all most of them judge eli by is highlights or lowlights on sportscenter and NFL network. Just like the draft every year. most go on by what the experts say instead of actually watching and developing there own opinion. As for Eli not carrying the team onhis back at certain times thoughout his career,well that's just a falicy. He may not have carried them to a winning record,playoff,or superbowl year in and year out,but who does. Name one QB that has!?! his #'s in the postseason and the 2 biggest games of his career,wich he just happened to win MVP in by the way,says it all. HOw many QB's make that throw down the sideline between 2 defenders in the 4th quarter of the game winning drive in a superbowl? Not just any average to above average QB. That was Quite possibly the greatest throw and catch I've ever seen. I can't remember any better so I'm assuming it was. These are just some of the defining moments of Mannings career,and he's not done yet. You say your an avid Giants fan since 58?! Reading your statement I think qualifies you as an avid ameteaur at best. I think instead of listening to what others say you should probably go back, watch some of these games over again,as you are alot older and probably to senile to remember the poise and greatness he showed in these moments. Here's a few playoff games to rewatch. Against Dallas,Tampa,Greenbay,Sanfransisco,and both Superbowls. Then once you have given it some thought yourself instead of repeating what others say,then we can talk.

In comment 12199214 Les in TO said:

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In comment 12199072 JonC said: Quote: list the QBs you think are clearly superior to Eli. I fully recognize Eli's warts, but you'll be hard pressed to list ten QBs superior to him. elite: brady, rogers, peyton and luck next level: big ben, rivers, brees and eli

I agree with this although it's interesting to see Drew Brees drop out of the top tier (which I agree with).

yep, 8-10 is where I'd consistently put Eli.

if he played in a similar system to the one he's in now throughout his career

In comment 12199436 chillinman1183 said:

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I hate to say it but what any of them carries very littlw weight because all most of them judge eli by is highlights or lowlights on sportscenter and NFL network. Just like the draft every year. most go on by what the experts say instead of actually watching and developing there own opinion. As for Eli not carrying the team onhis back at certain times thoughout his career,well that's just a falicy. He may not have carried them to a winning record,playoff,or superbowl year in and year out,but who does. Name one QB that has!?! his #'s in the postseason and the 2 biggest games of his career,wich he just happened to win MVP in by the way,says it all. HOw many QB's make that throw down the sideline between 2 defenders in the 4th quarter of the game winning drive in a superbowl? Not just any average to above average QB. That was Quite possibly the greatest throw and catch I've ever seen. I can't remember any better so I'm assuming it was. These are just some of the defining moments of Mannings career,and he's not done yet. You say your an avid Giants fan since 58?! Reading your statement I think qualifies you as an avid ameteaur at best. I think instead of listening to what others say you should probably go back, watch some of these games over again,as you are alot older and probably to senile to remember the poise and greatness he showed in these moments. Here's a few playoff games to rewatch. Against Dallas,Tampa,Greenbay,Sanfransisco,and both Superbowls. Then once you have given it some thought yourself instead of repeating what others say,then we can talk.

Dear Sir,
First of all I am not senile,and ,although tempted will not throw insults back.
My comment to the originator of the thread,who asked how good is ELI, was,I responded by saying,Eli cannot carry the team TIME AND TIME AGAIN.He had an incredible run pulling out the Dallas game.He controlled the Tampa game.He was magnificant against Green Bay and was a warrior against S.F. especially being slammed over and over again.In S.B.46 he made one of the most incredible throws ever to Manningham.In S.B.42 Eli got EXTREMELY lucky throwing up the duck and Tyree came down with it.
Those events were awesome to watch and reminise(sp),but they were in 2007 and 2011.My point is I love the two super bowls,but other than those,there has been NO CONSISTENCY to an 11 year career.
The reason I speak of listening to the opinions of non-bias national media is we have no credibility.We are bias.It is like the parents who watch their supposed superstar kids play at any level;they cannot be objective.
The Giants have been my kids for a long time.I have suffered with their failures and relished in their victories and I know I am not always objective about "my children" Although,I love them I listen to folks who do not wear Blue colored glasses.
I conclude by saying,"If you are a Giant fan ,you are my brother and hope to see you again at another Super Bowl victory parade" BTW the parade in 2012 was one of the sweetest days I can remember.

In comment 12195706 Boatie Warrant said:

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How many players played better without Eli than with him? Only two guys that I am aware of. Visanthe Shiancoe and Martellus Bennett, just so you don't have to look it up. Tell me again how Eli is not a leader............

And even those aren't very accurate. MB was good with Eli, but Eli only had one season with him. VS never played much with Eli, which has less to do with Eli and more to do with the coaching staff.

Once again you are incorrect. In 2013 He had no supporting cast around him no did he,especially after nicks was injured and Victor cruz was being doubled and triple teamed. No running game whatsoever. Guys like Andre Brown.Peyton Hillis,and Brandon Jacobs in the backfield. 2 hasbeens and a never was. Plus as Mara stated,he was playing in a broken offense,wich subsequently forced Gilbride into retirement. Last year in a new Offense with not much of a supporting cast once again he had one of his finest seasons,and I only expect him to improve in year 2. I know my team well and the players on it. I have a good grasp on the game of football as well,obviously much better than yourself. You keep saying you love listening to the national media and fans of other teams.Obviously this is what your opinions are based on,because if you knew as much about football as what you think then after actually watching Eli develop over the past 11 seasons your conclusion and opinion of him would be dramatically different. I dn't care if you proclaim yourself a life long Giants fan or not,in my own opinion,wich is a conclusion of come to of my independent thought,you sir are not a real Giants fan. Not a true Giants fan anyway. You may have been a fan of football since 58 but it's very clear you have no idea how to evaluate players or talent. You don't make a decision about any player based off what the Media and other fans (say). Most of these people base there opinion around what they see and hear on sportscenter and NFL network,or (LISTENING TO WHAT OTHER PEOPLE SAY)... It's extremely difficult to remain consistent when there's no consistency around you,wich is exactly what's happened to Eli over the past few seasons. When he has had the support around him,and consistency,he has been very consistent. Leading them to the playoffs,championship games,and 2 superbowl titles. Now that he has some pieces around him on offense once again.If everyone comes back healthy and stays that way!?!You'll see the type of player Eli really is and we'll revisit this conversation at the same time next year. You can admit how wrong you truly were!! That is if you are capable of developing unique independent thought on your own?! If not just flip on NFL network or ESPN so you can repeat what they're saying.

In comment 12200667 chillinman1183 said:

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Once again you are incorrect. In 2013 He had no supporting cast around him no did he,especially after nicks was injured and Victor cruz was being doubled and triple teamed. No running game whatsoever. Guys like Andre Brown.Peyton Hillis,and Brandon Jacobs in the backfield. 2 hasbeens and a never was. Plus as Mara stated,he was playing in a broken offense,wich subsequently forced Gilbride into retirement. Last year in a new Offense with not much of a supporting cast once again he had one of his finest seasons,and I only expect him to improve in year 2. I know my team well and the players on it. I have a good grasp on the game of football as well,obviously much better than yourself. You keep saying you love listening to the national media and fans of other teams.Obviously this is what your opinions are based on,because if you knew as much about football as what you think then after actually watching Eli develop over the past 11 seasons your conclusion and opinion of him would be dramatically different. I dn't care if you proclaim yourself a life long Giants fan or not,in my own opinion,wich is a conclusion of come to of my independent thought,you sir are not a real Giants fan. Not a true Giants fan anyway. You may have been a fan of football since 58 but it's very clear you have no idea how to evaluate players or talent. You don't make a decision about any player based off what the Media and other fans (say). Most of these people base there opinion around what they see and hear on sportscenter and NFL network,or (LISTENING TO WHAT OTHER PEOPLE SAY)... It's extremely difficult to remain consistent when there's no consistency around you,wich is exactly what's happened to Eli over the past few seasons. When he has had the support around him,and consistency,he has been very consistent. Leading them to the playoffs,championship games,and 2 superbowl titles. Now that he has some pieces around him on offense once again.If everyone comes back healthy and stays that way!?!You'll see the type of player Eli really is and we'll revisit this conversation at the same time next year. You can admit how wrong you truly were!! That is if you are capable of developing unique independent thought on your own?! If not just flip on NFL network or ESPN so you can repeat what they're saying.

Sir,

First of all you sound like a very angry person and maybe therapy would help.Secondly,I love MY Giants.I have watched almost every game since the late fifties and as you SHOULD know,everyone can look at a game and see different things.Hence,the blue colored glasses become I very pertinent point.You,sir are a fool ,if you think I derive ALL of my opinions from National media.Every bit of data comes into play when deriving an opinion.A rational person draws from all sources.You,sir are obviously,not a rational person.I find it,particularly,interesting that you are hoping I will eat my words when we revisit this after Eli has a great year.SIR,I am totally with you on this.I want Eli to be successful.There's an old saying ,"Would you rather be right or happy"I would much rather Eli kicks the tar out of the league,than watch in anguish,week in and week out. Unfortunately,your perception of me,because I am critical of Eli,is I am not a true fan or knowledgeable.I am so very sorry for you that you only see what you want to see. I am also,very happy for you that your mom still lets you live in the basement apartment.

Not angry at all,very happily married with a 2 and a half year old daughter,in a very nice/expensive condo. :) I just simply )believe everything you've stated in your previous post couldn't be more off target. You stated above in one of your earlier post that you strongly consider what the media thinks and other fans. Now that I've called you on your shit you back peddle. It's not that I'm angry I just hate it when people babble on when they haven't a clue what they are talking about.

In comment 12201301 chillinman1183 said:
[quote] Not angry at all,very happily married with a 2 and a half year old daughter,in a very nice/expensive condo. :) I just simply )believe everything you've stated in your previous post couldn't be more off target. You stated above in one of your earlier post that you strongly consider what the media thinks and other fans. Now that I've called you on your shit you back peddle. It's not that I'm angry I just hate it when people babble on when they haven't a clue what they are talking about. [/quote

I QUIT!!!

that makes him a HOF QB in my book.