Ross out Cardinal hunting

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they're going to spend a top 10 pick on an OL, it makes sense to do so on a true LT.

LT is a premium position to be considered in the Top 10. Compared to recent 1st Round LT prospects how do you see him grading out? Robinson/Mathews/Lewan/Fisher/Joeckel?

?

also?

AND slide Beatty to RT and Pugh to G

A top ten player MUST be an impact guy, not just hold down a position. Not to diminish the Guard position but, uh.... I guess I'm diminishing the Guard position.

So as I see it, our pick has to be a future left tackle, a complementary Wide Receiver or a powerful and destructive threat as a Defensive End. This is # 9 for goodness sake.

Thanks Jon. You got me thinking straight.

The scouts were out to kill him, and he got through it.

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Ideal measurables and athletic ability.

I'd be okay with him despite thinking Collins was the better player in college.

although what about clemmings and d.j. humphries? both look like excellent LT prospects IMO

I just don't see it when it comes to him

if NYG gambled on Clemmings or Humphries at #9. Does not compute.

also, Stanford has more than one prospect in the 2015 draft. Heard Montgomery ran better and caught the ball.

have not checked this year

that would plug in and fit the NYG WR corps really well.

Guys that can start for you. That's one reason with OBJ in the fold I prefer to look elsewhere in the first two rounds.

That doesn't scream Top 10.

What about the LSU pro day? Did that occur yet? Definitely the consideration is Peat @ Stanford.

Guys: According to my sources Peat had a pretty good workout; showed plenty of agility and LT movement skills. But that has never really been the issue with Peat; nobody questions that he doesn't have top 5 physical skills; its just he was very inconsistent on tape this past season; he was utterly dominant at times; at other times (versus Utah for example) he looked lost at sea. Interesting if this all plays out the way it appears to be playing out. (And don't forget that neither Iowa nor LSU has had their pro days yet). Last yera it appears the Giants choice came down to the explosive WR (Beckham), the althletic, albeit somewhat inconsistent LT (Lewan) and the versatile, physical G/T (Martin). This yera the choice could again come down to the explosive wideout (Cooper/White), the athletic albeit inconsistent LT (Peat) or the versatile, physical G/T (Scherff/Collins).

....to ultra soft? Nice!

Does that translate to Shelton this time around? In your opinion is he out of the mix for the #9 pick?

On his radio show. Said it very matter of factly like it was a gurantee. Think he was just presenting his opinion based as fact but it's a pick I could see happening

blocker?

Guys: Peat can be a pretty good run blocker; plays a little high at times, but has a thick, powerful base and can really lock on, although he can be stiff trying to get to the second level. Where Peat has issues its that he is not a super athlete with 4.95 type speed and quickness; he's more a 5.15-5.20 type guy and he will struggle maintaining the edge when he loses focus and starts to reach and lunge rather than keep his feet moving. Is that coachable/correctable. Probably one of the things that Ross went west to check on. Re Shelton my simple answer is who knows. Issue with Shelton is that he really isn't much of a pass rusher and looks to be more a NT type or a 2-down run stuffer in a 4-3 which may be a tad rich for the 9th pick especially on a team that already has a DT that can rush the passer.

Stay at 9, I think Peat will be the pick, but I prefer Lael Collins, who can play at a position of need (LG) for a couple of years, then move to LT or RT.

In comment 12196052 JonC said:

Quote:

that would plug in and fit the NYG WR corps really well.

Is he more of a slot WR? The type to get it in his hands and let him go?

but and Its a big one, if we leave a much higher rated guy on the board to grab him, it will go down as a blown opportunity

...for all the interesting insights regarding Peat.

At this stage, any POA player the Giants are interested in (either side of the ball) is OK by me!!!

I often wonder (shudder) that if Lewan had been there would they have taken him over OBJ!

In all fairness Utah made most teams look lost at sea with their terrific defense line this year.

It concerns me that Peat needs "coaching up". The giants don't have a good track record of that with the OL.

since the start of these talks. Sure hope we snag him.

maybe, hopefully, the signing of Ellis gives the Giants a guy on the DL who can do what Shelton does

He falls way too often, and you'd think he was trying to land a position for the Yankees with the way he catches defender instead of punching them (whoch is part of the falling down issue).

Still, based purely on physical tools, he may be the best of the bunch.

Doesn't initiate and lets the defender come to him. Where is the will to dominate? It should show up on tape somewhere but I haven't found it.

prefer someone other than Peat, but certainly wouldn't hate the pick But I thought someone on BBI quoted a source that said the Giants weren't going to draft Peat. Peat's body doesn't look NFL ready right now, and as Colin said, he's too inconsistent. Didn't like his play against Utah or ND.

if he is there. Then resign Hankins and we are set on the DL for years. We missed the boat letting LJ go. Lets not do it again. MO.

have been touting this guy for a bit. However, he just doesn't seem to have the body type the Giants usually prefer at LT. They seem to like the leaner types with excellent lateral movement (usually reflected in great 3 cone) with long arms. See Tyron Smith,Nate Solder, Taylor Lewan (guys we were rumored to be interested in).

I would hope this is true b/c he looks to be the most polished LT versatile OL in this draft. A little inconsistent last year but great sophomore season when he just erased some real good pass rushers. You hope it is just a light bulb thing b/c the talent to be an elite LT is there.

Also do not be surprised if they were there scouting HENRY ANDERSON also. Mountain of a man who could play the Chris Canty DE/DT role in this defense. 15 TFL/8.5 sacks last season and some very good measurables.

have a LB that people have been talking about?

but playing in a run oriented offense, I'd be slightly worried about a player going from a conservative offense, to a much more pass oriented offense.

are related to conditioning (as I suspect) or if he's better suited to RT in the NFL.

Once he gets fatigued, he stops moving his feet and starts lunging, grabbing, and falling down. It should correctable if the feet and AA are there.

Montgomery can do it all, very physical, good size, fights for the ball in traffic, good YAC runner, and can return punts and kicks.

I'd be surprised if NYG went DT at #9. There should be better players at premium positions, and also cost-controlled under a snug cap. NYG tends to go a bit leaner spending on DTs unless a pass rusher is available as a finishing signing (eg, Canty).

Montgomery is on the Giants radar.

the feet are there. I'm not sure about the desire, but he's got feet.

A lack of desire could be the root of the "soft" play and label. He sure played his arse off and dominated versus a strong, physical defense in UCLA.

conditioning, which he should be ashamed of, one thing stood out for me. His hips are VERY stiff. He couldn't shift his hips more than about 30 degrees on the drill where you're moving backward sideways, flipping from one side to the other. Imo, that's likely why he gets beat a bunch in pass protection by some guys. He relies on his long reach and decent feet to hold the edge, and that's not enough sometimes, because he doesn't get to the angle he needs to stop speed rushers.

But if cooper is there he has to be the pick

much more than Malcolm brown and slightly more than even Shelton. Goldman is a rock against the run and offers good pass rush. Watch his Louisville tape, he absolutely dominates that game in every fashion. He can play the 1 or 3 technique and would be PERFECT working with Big Hank in there.

in FA indicates to me that there's a good chance they'll go that way early in the draft.

they can possibly project and be confident in starting in that fifth OL role.

In comment 12196460 dorgan said:

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the feet are there. I'm not sure about the desire, but he's got feet.

sounds like the second coming of ....... Brewer, at a higher level

Hey guys: Good discussion as always. Just a couple of points. First, we'll never know exactly who Ross was looking at in particular, but as a general rule teams don't send their scouting director all the way across the country to check out 3rd-4th rounders. Second, just because the Giants are there for a second look doesn't mean they will take the kid, although as I suggested what it usually means is the team does have a decent grade already on the player. And three take it to the bank the Giants will stay true to their board and take someone from their top remaining level.

Here is the quintessential problem for the Giants in this draft. My reading (and i bat about .500 or so on these things) is that the Giants would really like to come away with either Cooper or White with the 9th pick. Assuming that Oakland takes one of them at #4, most standard needs-based, no trade mock drafts (including ours) have the other receiver falling to #9. However, truth be told, with just about every team picking 10th thru 19th needing a WR in some form or other, it is just hard to believe that somebody in that range doesn't jump ahead of the Giants if that second receiver gets into the 6-7-8 range. Then what do you do? All the edge rushers are really 3-4 OLBs and Shelton is a NT disguised as a 2-down 4-3 DT. In the end, the best option on D may be Waynes but do you want to use that high a pick on a guy who isn't going to start right away. And that leaves pretty much the OL unless the Giants have a really good grade on someone like WR Devante Parker (although that certainly isn't out of the question). And if it comes down to OL that pretty much means Scherff, Peat or Collins, which wouldn't necessarily be the worst thing that could happen.

In comment 12196509 Colin@gbn said:

Quote:

Hey guys: Good discussion as always. Just a couple of points. First, we'll never know exactly who Ross was looking at in particular, but as a general rule teams don't send their scouting director all the way across the country to check out 3rd-4th rounders. Second, just because the Giants are there for a second look doesn't mean they will take the kid, although as I suggested what it usually means is the team does have a decent grade already on the player. And three take it to the bank the Giants will stay true to their board and take someone from their top remaining level. Here is the quintessential problem for the Giants in this draft. My reading (and i bat about .500 or so on these things) is that the Giants would really like to come away with either Cooper or White with the 9th pick. Assuming that Oakland takes one of them at #4, most standard needs-based, no trade mock drafts (including ours) have the other receiver falling to #9. However, truth be told, with just about every team picking 10th thru 19th needing a WR in some form or other, it is just hard to believe that somebody in that range doesn't jump ahead of the Giants if that second receiver gets into the 6-7-8 range. Then what do you do? All the edge rushers are really 3-4 OLBs and Shelton is a NT disguised as a 2-down 4-3 DT. In the end, the best option on D may be Waynes but do you want to use that high a pick on a guy who isn't going to start right away. And that leaves pretty much the OL unless the Giants have a really good grade on someone like WR Devante Parker (although that certainly isn't out of the question). And if it comes down to OL that pretty much means Scherff, Peat or Collins, which wouldn't necessarily be the worst thing that could happen.

Colin , interesting but I remember reading a couple months earlier that you mentioned something to the effect that the Giants maybe high on Parker too. Was it more speculation on your end or did I read it differently?

at 9, seeing if they can snag White or Cooper and then grabbing an OL as a backup is far from a bad situation to be in.

We either get an impact playmaker or help an area that hasn't been addressed in far too long.

Coach: I have no idea what kind of grade the Giants have on Parker; we did pencil him in at #9 in one of our earlier mocks calling him one of the really underrated values in this draft. He's been kind of overshadowed by White's really rocket ascension, but I have heard that Parker has done nothing but continue to impress in pre-draft workouts, although he's still probably a level behind the other two.

thanks for that. I fully agree Parker has been really over-shadowed by White but honestly think Parker is right about on par with him. If Parker plays a full campaign last year he would have had video game numbers on the stat sheet.

And Cooper a tick above both due to his all around polish and game.

Agree 100% Jon: I have made the case before I really think the Giants thinking about the OL is evolving. For most of the TC tenure the Giants ran a very exaggerated max-protect system in which they routinely kept 7 guys in to pass block. What it meant was you could live with JAG type guys upfront who if they missed a block there was usually someone behind them to help out. However as they evolve toward a more spread offense you really need 4-5 guys that can all pass block so you are almost looking for guys with some LT ability right across the line. So adding a guy like Scherff or Collins to play OG would not be the worst thing to happen not to mention you add options at the OT spots.

If both are gone at 9... I could see us moving down and if it's presented to us.

Scouts need to determine if Peat's issues are related to conditioning (as I suspect) or if he's better suited to RT in the NFL.

It's obvious Peat carries a lot of bad weight. That's a red flag for a young man that should know his future relies on his fitness.

No argument from me but he's also far from the only kid who carries bad weight in the NFL. Could be he needs to grow up a bit, learn how to eat etc.

Not a fan of Waynes so let's hope that option isn't one. He struggles against shifty receivers. The Giants have been shown to put stock in 3-cone scores(7+) and frankly his is abysmal. A red flag for a position that requires fluidity and and quickness. Running fast in a straight line doesn't indicate cover ability. Marcus Peters ran a 4.0 shuttle vs a 4.4 for Waynes. I can get behind most any of the prospects projected to the Giants but this one would stick in my craw.

...and an extremely valuable pick on the table. Shouldn't work ethic, willpower and diet be givens for a prospect being considered for such a critical selection? You only get one shot at this. I understand the upside but he worries me.

No more, no less.

If the Giants have a 1st round grade on Peat and there is potential for a trade down, then Peat is someone they need to look at.

GM's don't fly 3000 miles for due diligence alone. There was a reason he went there.

It means they want a solid look at the guy through multiple eyes.

If they were just doing routine work, I do not think Reese himself would be heading out there.

...a guy who has missed time before, Andrus Peat at #9 is not a bad idea.

Then, again, I still maintain you can bring in Scherff and let him anchor between Beatty and Richberg, and if Beatty goes down again, Scherff can slide over.

To say Scherff can't play LT in the NFL is IMO just wrong.

In comment 12196509 Colin@gbn said:

Quote:

Here is the quintessential problem for the Giants in this draft. My reading (and i bat about .500 or so on these things) is that the Giants would really like to come away with either Cooper or White with the 9th pick. Assuming that Oakland takes one of them at #4, most standard needs-based, no trade mock drafts (including ours) have the other receiver falling to #9. However, truth be told, with just about every team picking 10th thru 19th needing a WR in some form or other, it is just hard to believe that somebody in that range doesn't jump ahead of the Giants if that second receiver gets into the 6-7-8 range. Then what do you do? All the edge rushers are really 3-4 OLBs and Shelton is a NT disguised as a 2-down 4-3 DT.

this is exactly my feeling. I just don't see White and Cooper available at 9, I look at it like one will be off the board very early (4 for example), the other a team will trade up like Julio Jones. Cooper is just to clean of a prospect, I especially can't see him being there. The fit of the pass rushers is a huge question mark to me, I'm very interested in most of them, but not many traditional 4-3 fits like fowler is. Unless Giants D is evolving under Spags and it can be built around the skillset of one of these guys (Beasely, gregory, ray etc). If the defense is very multiple in it's fronts. Those are the positions I think we want to go, but is the guy available and does he fit?

What do you think it would take to trade up and get him?

"falling" to 9, wouldn't the Giants themselves be at least one of the teams most highly targeted as a trade up (
NYG trade down) partner?

Maybe this is the year the Giants actually make a move in the first round? First time since Eli?

He could turn out to be a wasted pick.

I missed this thread because I didn't look at who had authored it. I get the point about the edge rushers mostly being ill fits, but when you've got elite athleticism I'm not sure position is determinative. Standard undersized DE/3-4 OLB (Sintim is the obvious example) who is too light to put a hand in the dirt but not agile enough to play in space is probably not worth a high pick. But a guy who has elite athleticism and is capable of rushing the quarterback on passing downs but playing competently in space on running downs, that's a guy who might be worth the pick. Beasley in particular strikes me as a guy who can have that sort of impact.