Ross out Cardinal hunting

they can possibly project and be confident in starting in that fifth OL role.

In comment 12196460 dorgan said:

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the feet are there. I'm not sure about the desire, but he's got feet.

sounds like the second coming of ....... Brewer, at a higher level

Hey guys: Good discussion as always. Just a couple of points. First, we'll never know exactly who Ross was looking at in particular, but as a general rule teams don't send their scouting director all the way across the country to check out 3rd-4th rounders. Second, just because the Giants are there for a second look doesn't mean they will take the kid, although as I suggested what it usually means is the team does have a decent grade already on the player. And three take it to the bank the Giants will stay true to their board and take someone from their top remaining level.

Here is the quintessential problem for the Giants in this draft. My reading (and i bat about .500 or so on these things) is that the Giants would really like to come away with either Cooper or White with the 9th pick. Assuming that Oakland takes one of them at #4, most standard needs-based, no trade mock drafts (including ours) have the other receiver falling to #9. However, truth be told, with just about every team picking 10th thru 19th needing a WR in some form or other, it is just hard to believe that somebody in that range doesn't jump ahead of the Giants if that second receiver gets into the 6-7-8 range. Then what do you do? All the edge rushers are really 3-4 OLBs and Shelton is a NT disguised as a 2-down 4-3 DT. In the end, the best option on D may be Waynes but do you want to use that high a pick on a guy who isn't going to start right away. And that leaves pretty much the OL unless the Giants have a really good grade on someone like WR Devante Parker (although that certainly isn't out of the question). And if it comes down to OL that pretty much means Scherff, Peat or Collins, which wouldn't necessarily be the worst thing that could happen.

In comment 12196509 Colin@gbn said:

Quote:

Hey guys: Good discussion as always. Just a couple of points. First, we'll never know exactly who Ross was looking at in particular, but as a general rule teams don't send their scouting director all the way across the country to check out 3rd-4th rounders. Second, just because the Giants are there for a second look doesn't mean they will take the kid, although as I suggested what it usually means is the team does have a decent grade already on the player. And three take it to the bank the Giants will stay true to their board and take someone from their top remaining level. Here is the quintessential problem for the Giants in this draft. My reading (and i bat about .500 or so on these things) is that the Giants would really like to come away with either Cooper or White with the 9th pick. Assuming that Oakland takes one of them at #4, most standard needs-based, no trade mock drafts (including ours) have the other receiver falling to #9. However, truth be told, with just about every team picking 10th thru 19th needing a WR in some form or other, it is just hard to believe that somebody in that range doesn't jump ahead of the Giants if that second receiver gets into the 6-7-8 range. Then what do you do? All the edge rushers are really 3-4 OLBs and Shelton is a NT disguised as a 2-down 4-3 DT. In the end, the best option on D may be Waynes but do you want to use that high a pick on a guy who isn't going to start right away. And that leaves pretty much the OL unless the Giants have a really good grade on someone like WR Devante Parker (although that certainly isn't out of the question). And if it comes down to OL that pretty much means Scherff, Peat or Collins, which wouldn't necessarily be the worst thing that could happen.

Colin , interesting but I remember reading a couple months earlier that you mentioned something to the effect that the Giants maybe high on Parker too. Was it more speculation on your end or did I read it differently?

at 9, seeing if they can snag White or Cooper and then grabbing an OL as a backup is far from a bad situation to be in.

We either get an impact playmaker or help an area that hasn't been addressed in far too long.

Coach: I have no idea what kind of grade the Giants have on Parker; we did pencil him in at #9 in one of our earlier mocks calling him one of the really underrated values in this draft. He's been kind of overshadowed by White's really rocket ascension, but I have heard that Parker has done nothing but continue to impress in pre-draft workouts, although he's still probably a level behind the other two.

thanks for that. I fully agree Parker has been really over-shadowed by White but honestly think Parker is right about on par with him. If Parker plays a full campaign last year he would have had video game numbers on the stat sheet.

And Cooper a tick above both due to his all around polish and game.

Agree 100% Jon: I have made the case before I really think the Giants thinking about the OL is evolving. For most of the TC tenure the Giants ran a very exaggerated max-protect system in which they routinely kept 7 guys in to pass block. What it meant was you could live with JAG type guys upfront who if they missed a block there was usually someone behind them to help out. However as they evolve toward a more spread offense you really need 4-5 guys that can all pass block so you are almost looking for guys with some LT ability right across the line. So adding a guy like Scherff or Collins to play OG would not be the worst thing to happen not to mention you add options at the OT spots.

If both are gone at 9... I could see us moving down and if it's presented to us.

Scouts need to determine if Peat's issues are related to conditioning (as I suspect) or if he's better suited to RT in the NFL.

It's obvious Peat carries a lot of bad weight. That's a red flag for a young man that should know his future relies on his fitness.

No argument from me but he's also far from the only kid who carries bad weight in the NFL. Could be he needs to grow up a bit, learn how to eat etc.

Not a fan of Waynes so let's hope that option isn't one. He struggles against shifty receivers. The Giants have been shown to put stock in 3-cone scores(7+) and frankly his is abysmal. A red flag for a position that requires fluidity and and quickness. Running fast in a straight line doesn't indicate cover ability. Marcus Peters ran a 4.0 shuttle vs a 4.4 for Waynes. I can get behind most any of the prospects projected to the Giants but this one would stick in my craw.

...and an extremely valuable pick on the table. Shouldn't work ethic, willpower and diet be givens for a prospect being considered for such a critical selection? You only get one shot at this. I understand the upside but he worries me.

No more, no less.

If the Giants have a 1st round grade on Peat and there is potential for a trade down, then Peat is someone they need to look at.

GM's don't fly 3000 miles for due diligence alone. There was a reason he went there.

It means they want a solid look at the guy through multiple eyes.

If they were just doing routine work, I do not think Reese himself would be heading out there.

...a guy who has missed time before, Andrus Peat at #9 is not a bad idea.

Then, again, I still maintain you can bring in Scherff and let him anchor between Beatty and Richberg, and if Beatty goes down again, Scherff can slide over.

To say Scherff can't play LT in the NFL is IMO just wrong.

In comment 12196509 Colin@gbn said:

Quote:

Here is the quintessential problem for the Giants in this draft. My reading (and i bat about .500 or so on these things) is that the Giants would really like to come away with either Cooper or White with the 9th pick. Assuming that Oakland takes one of them at #4, most standard needs-based, no trade mock drafts (including ours) have the other receiver falling to #9. However, truth be told, with just about every team picking 10th thru 19th needing a WR in some form or other, it is just hard to believe that somebody in that range doesn't jump ahead of the Giants if that second receiver gets into the 6-7-8 range. Then what do you do? All the edge rushers are really 3-4 OLBs and Shelton is a NT disguised as a 2-down 4-3 DT.

this is exactly my feeling. I just don't see White and Cooper available at 9, I look at it like one will be off the board very early (4 for example), the other a team will trade up like Julio Jones. Cooper is just to clean of a prospect, I especially can't see him being there. The fit of the pass rushers is a huge question mark to me, I'm very interested in most of them, but not many traditional 4-3 fits like fowler is. Unless Giants D is evolving under Spags and it can be built around the skillset of one of these guys (Beasely, gregory, ray etc). If the defense is very multiple in it's fronts. Those are the positions I think we want to go, but is the guy available and does he fit?

What do you think it would take to trade up and get him?

"falling" to 9, wouldn't the Giants themselves be at least one of the teams most highly targeted as a trade up (
NYG trade down) partner?

Maybe this is the year the Giants actually make a move in the first round? First time since Eli?

He could turn out to be a wasted pick.

I missed this thread because I didn't look at who had authored it. I get the point about the edge rushers mostly being ill fits, but when you've got elite athleticism I'm not sure position is determinative. Standard undersized DE/3-4 OLB (Sintim is the obvious example) who is too light to put a hand in the dirt but not agile enough to play in space is probably not worth a high pick. But a guy who has elite athleticism and is capable of rushing the quarterback on passing downs but playing competently in space on running downs, that's a guy who might be worth the pick. Beasley in particular strikes me as a guy who can have that sort of impact.