There have been some great threads on BBI in the last week on potential DE's for the Giants (I include Beasley in that group). Ray, Gregory, Dupree, Armstead, etc.
I'd be happy with either as a Day 2 pick. Smith definitely has a higher floor but Hunter the higher ceiling. Thank goodness for a few more weeks of evaluation.
I think you'd need to adjust the scheme for either one, but they both seem to have some relentlessness and nastiness to their games (in addition to the athleticism). Beasley is intriguing as well. Gregory is the only one I don't like much. But parsing between all of them is a challenge as an amateur who can't identify the schematic pros/cons.
He definitely has the best chance of the bunch to play DE given his length and weight. In my eyes Beasley is a 34 OLB but may be atheletic enough to transition to 43 OLB,but only if he can play all 3 downs,otherwise he's not worth a top 10 pick in a 43. I can't see Beasley playing end in the NFL. He's definitely strong enough in the weight room but can he transition that to the field in the NFL.
I assure you I'm not basing my opinion of him solely on his weight. His best film is when he's playing LB, and roaming in space off the edge, and I'd prefer a player who's best suited to DE. I just don't see the magic with him, I actually think he's over-hyped as most Gator defenders tend to be.
that may eventually go in the latter half of the first round? A player who can set the edge, rush the passer, and kick inside and be disruptive. I don't think he'll be around for our second round pick. I almost feel like he's a better option than most of the names floating around as a first round picks.
that may eventually go in the latter half of the first round? A player who can set the edge, rush the passer, and kick inside and be disruptive. I don't think he'll be around for our second round pick. I almost feel like he's a better option than most of the names floating around as a first round picks.
I don't think he'll be around either at #40. But if he is, and we don't go DE in round one, I'd take a long look at him.
#2 DL in 40 Yard Dash, 4.62
#1 DL in Vert Jump, 39 in
#1 DL in Broad Jump, 10'7
#2 DL in 20 Yard Shuttle
#3 DL in 60 Yard Shuttle
He's got the size and is arguably the best athlete in the class.
The guy of course is Odighizuwa. So why isn't he in consideration at 9?
I like the size of Odighizuwa's arms and hands too -- but I've been told that his injuries make him a question mark at 9 -- I agree with you though he's more the prototype than anyone else out there
Hunter intrigues with rare AA and a high ceiling as a pass rusher. Smith has the higher floor with natural size, LDE traits and is stout at the PoA.
I've waffled on these two hoping some info would come to the fore tipping the scales. My gut says the Giants will prefer Hunter's upside.
Could easily see that happening. Some think Hunter's athleticism compares to JPP's. He needs to develop better pass rush moves, but blocks a lot of passes, and is stout against the run. He also has no character concerns, and is a hard worker.
violent hands and long arms. However he lacks pass rush skills and two hip surgeries cost him the entire 2013 season. That will play in the minds of front offices around the league. He didn't really play to those numbers either. If he can remain healthy I think he has a career in the league as a run stuffing base end though.
Different people that stated on twitter that it's difficult to just focus on Dupree when watching Kentucky film because ZaDarius Smith stands out as well. I understand it happens a lot that another teammate can stand out on film when you weren't studying him in particular but I just can't find myself wanting to draft him at 9.
I can be way off but he reminds me of Vernon Gholston 2.0
Long arms, super athletic, and rare upside. Let's not forget we have no big time pass rusher locked up for the next few years. Our SB success has been predicated on pass rush. JPP is no long term lock as of today.
1-Fowler (Can't see him falling)
2-Gregory
3-Ray
4-Beasley
5-Dupree
One thing I have read about Dupree is that he was asked to do a lot on the UK defense as he was their best defensive player. He was moved around a lot. He played outside and inside and was used in 2 point stance, 3 point stance, used in coverage as well.
From what I have read basically he was never allowed to do one thing in their defense. They moved him wherever they needed him in the front seven and that he wasnt allowed to just rush the passer on every play. That definitely affected him defensively.
The question you have to ask is how would he perform in the Giants defense. He has the athletic ability and the size. The question is how does that translate?
But Athletically he is superior to Ray and in all honesty he is probably a half a step behind Beasley athletically but is 24 lbs heavier...
The whole he is only a workout warrior thing is just silly IMO. The guy led the SEC in sacks.
A quote from Bucky Brooks
Quote:
I asked the coach if Dupree was a better athlete than player, he told me the kid played 4 positions and never had a chance to fully develop
Quote:
Coach thinks Dupree will be a "stud" when he given a chance to settle in and play. Says he is too explosive to not be a player.
Quote:
The same coach told me that @UKFootball DE Bud Dupree is the best candidate of the "hybrids" to be a pure DE. Size & frame to be 290lb DE
This is pretty much what I see. He is a little raw.. well JPP was a little raw as well.
The question is can he improve his technique. He has the athletic ability. He definitely need to play more with his hand in the dirt..
I also found the article linked below pretty revealing
Long arms, super athletic, and rare upside. Let's not forget we have no big time pass rusher locked up for the next few years. Our SB success has been predicated on pass rush. JPP is no long term lock as of today.
1-Fowler (Can't see him falling)
2-Gregory
3-Ray
4-Beasley
5-Dupree
Id like Gregory more if he was 245-250 to start.. then I could see him maxing out around 255-265
It's nice and all to read other peoples opinions but there's no substitute for actually watching film and developing your (OWN)opinion!! No matter what you read about Dupree it doesn't make it a fact. Fowler was all over the field as well playing different positions and he's rated much higher. To high in my view. Dn't get me wrong he's a good player and the talent is there but I dn't believe he's any better then Bud Dupree. Not from what I've seen anyway...
He should be the pick then. haha... But all kidding aside,I think if he had stayed at one position and developed as an end then he probably would be a consideration at 9. It's a little tricky to project him as an every down end in the NFL. So I think 9 is still a little high. Projecting players to have a certain production on the pros has been one of the Giants problems in the past when it comes to the draft. This is just my opinion,wich I have stated before. I think it's an easy choice if either Cooper or Parker are there at 9,just like last year with OBJ. LIke rease said when they had a choice between lewnan,Martin and beckham. There was nothing to talk about In that scenario. I think you go with Cooper based on production and route running ability. If Parker hadn't been injured for a better part of the season it's probably the other way around and people would be talking about him as the 1st receiver off the board. I'm not as enamoured as most with Kevin Whites 4.35 at the combine because you just simply dn't see it on film enough. But one of the teams picking before us will see that and it will be the overriding factor between him and Cooper. Parker in my view is the most explosive of the 3 but he's also been a little banged up as well,so I think you go with Cooper at 9.
This doesn't look like a great class for 4-3 DEs. Even if you think the team has a need there, picking one of these hybrids or 3-4 prototypes at 9 isn't the best use of resources.
I never said it wasn't a factor,but to think that they would reach for a certain player that has a lesser grade just because he was voted team captain is just not realistic. maybe in the later rounds I could see this being the deciding factor,but definitely not the 9th pick. I dn't understand why you're coming at me anyway,because of your perception I was lauphing at you?! I wasn't so you can put your insecuraties away. I was simply amused that all of the Giants picks had been voted captains. Geesh!!
If JR decides that BPA at 9 is a DE I hope it`s Odi. He is a big strong kid and seems to have a high motor. Will be a disruptive force and it will be like old home days to have a DE whose name announcers have trouble with.
If JR decides that BPA at 9 is a DE I hope it`s Odi. He is a big strong kid and seems to have a high motor. Will be a disruptive force and it will be like old home days to have a DE whose name announcers have trouble with.
medical and lack of production should drop him to at least 40.
If JR decides that BPA at 9 is a DE I hope it`s Odi. He is a big strong kid and seems to have a high motor. Will be a disruptive force and it will be like old home days to have a DE whose name announcers have trouble with.
Dont see it not at 9.. If Dupree is a dark horse at 9... Odi is a dark horse in a coal mine, during a blackout under a solar eclipse.
At #9 I want a guy who has stood out as a player on the field
the game is changing on defense. I think if you get a top flight pass rusher, you re-design your defense around him. I wouldn't just try to fit a square peg into a square hole here.
Eric, well said. I'm starting to be of the same mind. With offenses built around the pass and in some cases no huddle a difference maker in the front seven is paramount.
Beasley is my guy...partly because Fowler will be long gone, but I really like Beasley. I think he can be the Giants Von Miller.
and a bunch of the recent Super Bowl teams ran multiple looks and concepts defensively which featured more and more of the new wave of 'hybrid' player.
Are the Giants under Steve willing to follow the trend too? If so any of these edge-rushers could be in serious contention for our 9th pick.
and a bunch of the recent Super Bowl teams ran multiple looks and concepts defensively which featured more and more of the new wave of 'hybrid' player.
Are the Giants under Steve willing to follow the trend too? If so any of these edge-rushers could be in serious contention for our 9th pick.
Coach, I really think Spags is willing. Coughlin said the experience in Baltimore altered some of Spag's philosophy so we should expect some changes in scheme that might go unnoticed by the casual fan. (no offense to casual fans) Would not surprise me if having Suggs at the RDE (or LEO in the Raven's D) has affected his thinking on the necessary physical attributes of pass rushers. The question is, do Ross and Reese see it the same way.
If people think Beasley can gain weight to play DE how can Fowler not when he has already done it
Hard to be consistent when you are playing 3 different positions.
I generally think all Gators are over hyped. I think he is under hyped
I assure you I'm not basing my opinion of him solely on his weight. His best film is when he's playing LB, and roaming in space off the edge, and I'd prefer a player who's best suited to DE. I just don't see the magic with him, I actually think he's over-hyped as most Gator defenders tend to be.
I've waffled on these two hoping some info would come to the fore tipping the scales. My gut says the Giants will prefer Hunter's upside.
I don't think he'll be around either at #40. But if he is, and we don't go DE in round one, I'd take a long look at him.
#2 DL in 40 Yard Dash, 4.62
#1 DL in Vert Jump, 39 in
#1 DL in Broad Jump, 10'7
#2 DL in 20 Yard Shuttle
#3 DL in 60 Yard Shuttle
He's got the size and is arguably the best athlete in the class.
The guy of course is Odighizuwa. So why isn't he in consideration at 9?
Hau'oli Kikaha is another player whose medical history effects his draft status. He's had multiple ACL tears. 36 career sacks.
#2 DL in 40 Yard Dash, 4.62
#1 DL in Vert Jump, 39 in
#1 DL in Broad Jump, 10'7
#2 DL in 20 Yard Shuttle
#3 DL in 60 Yard Shuttle
He's got the size and is arguably the best athlete in the class.
The guy of course is Odighizuwa. So why isn't he in consideration at 9?
I like the size of Odighizuwa's arms and hands too -- but I've been told that his injuries make him a question mark at 9 -- I agree with you though he's more the prototype than anyone else out there
I've waffled on these two hoping some info would come to the fore tipping the scales. My gut says the Giants will prefer Hunter's upside.
Could easily see that happening. Some think Hunter's athleticism compares to JPP's. He needs to develop better pass rush moves, but blocks a lot of passes, and is stout against the run. He also has no character concerns, and is a hard worker.
I think Beasley gives you that. If we are being more conservative then Fowler or Dupree both impress me.
I can be way off but he reminds me of Vernon Gholston 2.0
#2 DL in 40 Yard Dash, 4.62
#1 DL in Vert Jump, 39 in
#1 DL in Broad Jump, 10'7
#2 DL in 20 Yard Shuttle
#3 DL in 60 Yard Shuttle
He's got the size and is arguably the best athlete in the class.
The guy of course is Odighizuwa. So why isn't he in consideration at 9?
Dupree was #1 vert and broad. 42" vert and 11'6 broad. Your numbers are flawed unless you consider him a LB which seems wrong.
1-Fowler (Can't see him falling)
2-Gregory
3-Ray
4-Beasley
5-Dupree
From what I have read basically he was never allowed to do one thing in their defense. They moved him wherever they needed him in the front seven and that he wasnt allowed to just rush the passer on every play. That definitely affected him defensively.
The question you have to ask is how would he perform in the Giants defense. He has the athletic ability and the size. The question is how does that translate?
But Athletically he is superior to Ray and in all honesty he is probably a half a step behind Beasley athletically but is 24 lbs heavier...
The whole he is only a workout warrior thing is just silly IMO. The guy led the SEC in sacks.
A quote from Bucky Brooks
This is pretty much what I see. He is a little raw.. well JPP was a little raw as well.
The question is can he improve his technique. He has the athletic ability. He definitely need to play more with his hand in the dirt..
I also found the article linked below pretty revealing
Dupree COULD be in the mix @ 9. Apparently he is climbing up boards..
Article on Bud Dupree - ( New Window )
1-Fowler (Can't see him falling)
2-Gregory
3-Ray
4-Beasley
5-Dupree
Id like Gregory more if he was 245-250 to start.. then I could see him maxing out around 255-265
Dupree or one of the WRs at 9.
Obviously its not the lone criteria for their selection process, but it's seems to be an very important factor.
Link - ( New Window )
medical and lack of production should drop him to at least 40.
Dont see it not at 9.. If Dupree is a dark horse at 9... Odi is a dark horse in a coal mine, during a blackout under a solar eclipse.
I think its a fallacy that teams draft on measurables alone.
Eric, well said. I'm starting to be of the same mind. With offenses built around the pass and in some cases no huddle a difference maker in the front seven is paramount.
Beasley is my guy...partly because Fowler will be long gone, but I really like Beasley. I think he can be the Giants Von Miller.
Are the Giants under Steve willing to follow the trend too? If so any of these edge-rushers could be in serious contention for our 9th pick.
Are the Giants under Steve willing to follow the trend too? If so any of these edge-rushers could be in serious contention for our 9th pick.
Coach, I really think Spags is willing. Coughlin said the experience in Baltimore altered some of Spag's philosophy so we should expect some changes in scheme that might go unnoticed by the casual fan. (no offense to casual fans) Would not surprise me if having Suggs at the RDE (or LEO in the Raven's D) has affected his thinking on the necessary physical attributes of pass rushers. The question is, do Ross and Reese see it the same way.