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Letting Rolle walk was a mistake

OBJ_AllDay : 3/21/2015 3:55 pm
First of I'd like to say a quick hello to everyone. I have been a lurker on this site for probably 10 years but for some reason was never able to register on here until the site changed format recently. The IP was always mysteriously blocked. Best site ever we have here.

With that said, I have great respect for the job Reese has done letting players walk a year early rather than a year late. It has hardly ever come back to bite us. But I can't justify some of these contracts we gave out without being able to match Rolle's. Sure his play was subpar this year but look at the trash he had opposite him. He certainly looked great when he had Will Hill starting alongside him. I don't think Ed Reed in his prime would have looked great in our secondary this year with the pressure the D line was generating and Quentin Demps next to him. Just my opinion.
NYK  
spike : 3/21/2015 3:59 pm : link
allDay!
not nyk...  
OBJ_AllDay : 3/21/2015 4:00 pm : link
trust me. I hate that clown.
You were banned before  
JonC : 3/21/2015 4:01 pm : link
apparently, fess up.
He was way below subpar  
Big Rick in FL : 3/21/2015 4:02 pm : link
PFF had him as the 2nd worst rated Free Agent Safety with a -13.6 grade. That showed in his play. He got beat deep often and missed a lot of tackles. There's a reason he only got 3.5 million per year in a very weak Safety class (Free Agency & draft)
i was able to register once years ago  
OBJ_AllDay : 3/21/2015 4:02 pm : link
But made a non football thread relating to sports wagering and picking a good sports book for US players. Was looking for insight from others. Not sure why someone was so quick with the ban trigger. I assure you I am not that neanderthal NYK though
He priced himself over the value the Giants assigned to him.  
Devon : 3/21/2015 4:03 pm : link
A team in the Giants rebuilding (though they won't call it that) shoes shouldn't be over-paying on aging, declining vets in years or money, sentimental or short term roster hole reasons be damned.

(OTOH, good for Rolle for getting the deal he did from the Bears; players should always get the best they can for themselves.)
He was breaking down  
Giants2012 : 3/21/2015 4:04 pm : link
Rolle said he was unable to walk often during the week and spent days soaking his feet. His play may have reflected issues with his feet.

Rather than have another Diehl situation, I think it was safer to part ways with Rolle.
I was unaware of his foot issues  
OBJ_AllDay : 3/21/2015 4:06 pm : link
I don't remember hearing much about that this year. I just don't want to see a CC Brown type of situation this year. We are extremely devoid of talent at safety but it is def not a position I would want to see addressed high up in the draft this year. I would rather build the O and D lines.
Rolle was constantly out of position and his angles were  
gtt350 : 3/21/2015 4:08 pm : link
terrible
Better a year too early  
JonC : 3/21/2015 4:09 pm : link
than a year too late.
Agree better year early than a year late  
OBJ_AllDay : 3/21/2015 4:17 pm : link
But the holes left have me worried. I thought the same for JPP. Great run defender but has the back issues and hasn't been the disruptive force he was earlier in his career. I didn't think he was worth big $ but kind of felt we had to keep him especially with what we had on the roster.

Again, I'd like to say I'm pumped to be a part of this board now. Its a shame this NYK clown ruined so many people's perception of new members but I think Rob and Carmine are on this site - carmine under the name NYGpride something I believe. I have tailgated with them many times at the meadowlands. good people. Happy I was finally able to get on here.
I think there were a few things at play there  
#10* : 3/21/2015 4:23 pm : link
One, maybe they didn't like how open he was with the media. If Rolle didn't see effort he'd call people out for it, not by name of course. Not sure if the FO liked that or not.

2nd and more importantly I think they thought they were was a good change they were getting McCourty.
Spags might have wanted a fresher approach  
George from PA : 3/21/2015 4:46 pm : link
Rolle wanted to come back....the dollars were not crazy.....maybe Rolle had too much influence with the Dbacks.....just speculation.
Guy is fading  
mpinmaine : 3/21/2015 4:51 pm : link
and fast..I am concerned about safety (like all of BB1) but still ...AR is declining and it's time to move on...guy couldn't cover...
IMO
Rolle was great for us,  
Ira : 3/21/2015 4:55 pm : link
but signing a player who's already shown signs of declining to a 3 year deal with $5 million guaranteed sounds like a mistake to me.
I might be the only  
Rory : 3/21/2015 4:59 pm : link
One looking forward to seeing Cooper Taylor getting his shot. Before the injury he was turning some heads

Signing Rolle to a long term deal at 31 is the type of moves teams make that you regret in 2 years
Rory  
RetroJint : 3/21/2015 5:10 pm : link
Yes. This was no mistake. Taylor impressed quite a few people.
with JonC and Ira  
ColHowPepper : 3/21/2015 5:12 pm : link
Rolle didn't really make a lot of plays in 2014. Better to move on, save a bit on cap space, and get someone on the ascendant. Bet we go S at 3 or 4, assuming we go WR/OL at 1 and 2, or v.v.
Going into the season with only Behre, Taylor and Brown would be a CCBrown season risk. Hopefully Reese has learned from that.
This group  
TMS : 3/21/2015 5:18 pm : link
has made a lot of personnel mistakes the past 6 years thats why we are where we are and the Pats , Packers etc are still every year contenders. Guess the front office is bulletproof and we are screwed.
Never heard  
NYBEN1963 : 3/21/2015 5:20 pm : link
that one before ...Letting Kevin Boss go was a mistake, letting Steve Smith go was a mistake, Letting Linval Joseph go was a mistake...and my all time favorite, letting David Douglas go was a mistake.
NYBen...  
OBJ_AllDay : 3/21/2015 5:33 pm : link
law of averages... we gotta be wrong at some point. We've had a good track record so far. And I think we would gladly welcome back Linval on this d line.
Short term  
old man : 3/21/2015 5:45 pm : link
like this season, probably; longer term, no.
We had to move on to evolve the D...an someone will step up to lead.
Kevin Boss if I remember had concussion issues  
#10* : 3/21/2015 5:46 pm : link
Steve smith didn't give the Giants a chance to match I believe. Linvel should of have stayed but priced out of their market.
the adage goes 'better to walk away from a player a year to early...  
Torrag : 3/21/2015 5:54 pm : link
...than a year too late.' In the NFL it's especially true.
I'm concerned about safety - but I respect the Giants FO  
gidiefor : Mod : 3/21/2015 6:08 pm : link
for setting the value and sticking to it.
I don't think resigning AR  
Mike in Philly : 3/21/2015 6:24 pm : link
would have improved the Safety situation. There would still be the same issues and we'd have an older vet taking up a rostr spot.
time for him to go  
Paulie Walnuts : 3/21/2015 6:40 pm : link
better a year early than a year too late
It all boils down to what the team thinks Rolle has left.  
idol-mind : 3/21/2015 7:06 pm : link
Is he better than any of the options currently on the roster? Probably. But how long a contract are you going to give him? If the team feels he only has a year or two left, why sign him for three?

Rolle isn't the type of guy to take a one-year contract at this point in his career, nor should he have to. It's better to cut bait now and look for a guy who can be the answer at safety for years than to toss a multi-year contract at somebody who isn't in the plans down the road.
RE: Kevin Boss if I remember had concussion issues  
NYBEN1963 : 3/21/2015 7:27 pm : link
In comment 12196593 #10* said:
Quote:
Steve smith didn't give the Giants a chance to match I believe. Linvel should of have stayed but priced out of their market.
I was really trying to be sarcastic ...but my point is that every time a fan favorite leaves someone thinks that the FO made a mistake and that letting that player go will come back to "haunt" us
The mistake was not having a replacement on board  
Marty in Albany : 3/21/2015 7:52 pm : link
.

RE: Never heard  
Reb8thVA : 3/21/2015 8:13 pm : link
In comment 12196558 NYBEN1963 said:
Quote:
that one before ...Letting Kevin Boss go was a mistake, letting Steve Smith go was a mistake, Letting Linval Joseph go was a mistake...and my all time favorite, letting David Douglas go was a mistake.


letting Joseph go was a mistake.
Missed too many tackles this year and  
Simms11 : 3/21/2015 8:25 pm : link
Had like 3 balls go right through his hands. Additionally, his range was not good in coverage. He will be replaced with someone that is just as capable, but hopefully better.
rolle was a great giants but people have a tough time taking  
Tuckrule : 3/21/2015 8:26 pm : link
the emotional side as a fan out of it and making a business decision. He was out of position a lot last year. Def lost a step or two and was taking poor angles. He didn't have much of an impact anymore and his sure tackling ability was gone. Serviceable NFL player at this point but not as a full time starter.
I remember Cooper Taylor intercepting a deflected  
mikeygiants : 3/21/2015 8:46 pm : link
ball in the end zone in preseason, aside from that I remember seeing him struggle in coverage.
A lot of talk about  
Doomster : 3/21/2015 9:09 pm : link
how good Taylor was looking......that was preseason, but did nothing to make me forget Rolle.....

No experience and unable to stay on the field....not a good combination.
I'm one of Rolle's biggest supporters.  
Geomon : 3/21/2015 9:11 pm : link
I followed him through college and into the NFL and when the Giants got him, I was elated. He helped us win a Super Bowl and I couldn't be happier with the guy.

But it was time to move on. There just comes a time when that's necessary and this was the time. That's just the way the league works.
RE: I remember Cooper Taylor intercepting a deflected  
Mason : 3/21/2015 9:12 pm : link
In comment 12196847 mikeygiants said:


That's strange since PFF rated him well in covreage. And coaches and beat writers were impressed with his coverage and tackling. I remember PFF taking an issue with Giants coaches for going with Demps as their 3rd safety over Taylor. PFF didn't like Demps as a real option.

Quote:
Cooper Taylor (S): The second year safety had an interception off of a deflected pass last week and has certainly improved his coverage skills from a year ago. According to PFF, Taylor played 39 snaps and tied for eighth among safeties in overall ratings for the position with a + (0.8) rating. Ironically, Taylor was tied with teammate Nat Behre in the rankings, as well as with Seattle’s Earl Thomas. While Taylor is not competing for a starting position right now, it should be noted that both Giants’ safeties (Antrel Rolle and Stevie Brown) are unrestricted free agents after this season.
The cooper Taylor hype  
OBJ_AllDay : 3/22/2015 12:21 am : link
Reminds me of those who held out hope on the likes of jayson hosley, Ramses barden and sinorice moss. I just don't see it
*  
OBJ_AllDay : 3/22/2015 12:22 am : link
*jayron
In the first place, who made PFF the Supreme Court of judging players  
Reese's Pieces : 3/22/2015 12:56 am : link
in the NFL? They've done a great job of marketing themselves as expert in evaluating NFL players, knowing that fans would just eat it up.

I don't understand why I keep hearing that "better one year early than one year too late" mantra. If Reese has been a master of this, then why does the roster get weaker every year under him?

Consider that veterans like Tuck and Rolle might have just had an off year, if PFF is to be believed. It takes so much effort to play in the NFL at full speed all year. It's veterans like Rolle and Tuck who already have their rings who don't play up to their full abilities when their team is obviously going nowhere. We saw Tuck talking about retirement in the middle of 2011, and then when the team was back in it Tuck played like it was 2007.

I think a Giants' defense with Boley, Canty, Osi and Blackburn would have been a whole lot better than what we had in their place. Team could have gotten another couple of year out of them and worked on rebuilding the offensive line. Look at linebacker. Boley and Blackburn were released and "replaced" with Williams (6th round 2011), Herzlich (UDFA 2011) and Paysinger(UDFA 2011). (These guys are still all on the roster, believe it or not.)

Now clearly Boley and Blackburn were not gamebreakers but Boley made a big contribution in 2011 and in 2012 he was 3rd in tackles and 2nd in solo tackles with three picks. Blackburn played really well for an "out-of-football" (think interception of Brady) and in 2012 was first in tackles, had three picks and FIVE forced fumbles.
RE: In the first place, who made PFF the Supreme Court of judging players  
OBJ_AllDay : 3/22/2015 1:04 am : link
In comment 12197065 Reese's Pieces said:
Quote:
in the NFL? They've done a great job of marketing themselves as expert in evaluating NFL players, knowing that fans would just eat it up.

I don't understand why I keep hearing that "better one year early than one year too late" mantra. If Reese has been a master of this, then why does the roster get weaker every year under him?

Consider that veterans like Tuck and Rolle might have just had an off year, if PFF is to be believed. It takes so much effort to play in the NFL at full speed all year. It's veterans like Rolle and Tuck who already have their rings who don't play up to their full abilities when their team is obviously going nowhere. We saw Tuck talking about retirement in the middle of 2011, and then when the team was back in it Tuck played like it was 2007.

I think a Giants' defense with Boley, Canty, Osi and Blackburn would have been a whole lot better than what we had in their place. Team could have gotten another couple of year out of them and worked on rebuilding the offensive line. Look at linebacker. Boley and Blackburn were released and "replaced" with Williams (6th round 2011), Herzlich (UDFA 2011) and Paysinger(UDFA 2011). (These guys are still all on the roster, believe it or not.)

Now clearly Boley and Blackburn were not gamebreakers but Boley made a big contribution in 2011 and in 2012 he was 3rd in tackles and 2nd in solo tackles with three picks. Blackburn played really well for an "out-of-football" (think interception of Brady) and in 2012 was first in tackles, had three picks and FIVE forced fumbles.


Agree 100%
Glad you agree. I think you're not going to have a lot of company.  
Reese's Pieces : 3/22/2015 1:16 am : link
Most of the regulars here just tend to agree with each other all the time. "Better one year early than one year too late," and gang up on anyone who disagrees.

It wasn't just PFF with Taylor.  
Klaatu : 3/22/2015 2:13 am : link
As Eric notes in his Scouting Reports, "Cooper [Taylor] was impressing with his play during training camp and the preseason."

The only issue with Taylor is his durability, or lack thereof.
RE: It wasn't just PFF with Taylor.  
OBJ_AllDay : 3/22/2015 2:17 am : link
In comment 12197072 Klaatu said:
Quote:
As Eric notes in his Scouting Reports, "Cooper [Taylor] was impressing with his play during training camp and the preseason."

The only issue with Taylor is his durability, or lack thereof.


Durability is a big issue when your letting a guy walk who missed one game in 9 years
Rolle will be 33 in December...  
Klaatu : 3/22/2015 2:31 am : link
And is clearly on the down side of his career. The Giants weren't going to give him a three-year deal worth $11.5 million with $5 million guaranteed, which is what he got from the Bears. Well...good luck with that, Chicago.

I doubt Jerry Reese is going to put all of his Safety eggs in the Taylor/Berhe basket. If he makes the same mistake in 2015 that he made in 2009, I'll be the first one to call for his execution. There's still plenty of time to sign a UFA FS (although the pickings are getting mighty slim), and of course there's the draft.
Money talks, bullshit walks  
Milton : 3/22/2015 3:45 am : link
Despite all the high praises from Coughlin and others, I don't think the Giants wanted him back. It wasn't about the money, because it's not like he left for a bunch of it and I hardly think he left without giving the Giants a chance to match. I think that with the addition of Spags, the Giants wanted new leadership in the locker room.
No worries, our LBs will make up for  
Jimmy Googs : 3/22/2015 8:06 am : link
the lack of quality Safety play.
Guess I'm in the minority  
rasbutant : 3/22/2015 8:41 am : link
I would have brought him back at that price.

It's a one year deal for 5 mil.

The next two years they can cut him without dead money. And if he plays well you keep him for 3+mil / yr.

I don't know 5 mil seems about right for this guy for one more year. A leader on defense and has always been healthy. He can still play, he may not be what he once was, but he can still play at a very high level.
Link - ( New Window )
His play last year  
nygnyy274 : 3/22/2015 9:07 am : link
Age. And his big mouth make me glad he's gone and I don't have to hear his dumb false predictions on WFAN anymore with joe and even. As I write this he just missed another tackle
I think  
mrvax : 3/22/2015 9:27 am : link
Quote:
He priced himself over the value the Giants assigned to him.


Devon hit the nail on the head. The Giants probably wanted to move on but felt they had to make a bottom line offer to Rolle and he turned it down. Pride thing. Similar to when the Giants said good-bye to Brandon Jacobs, "they made him an offer he had to refuse."

Rolle's play, no matter who he was partnered with was sub-par. Clearly diminished, IMO. Loved the player but as the players say, "it's a business".
OBJ  
Rory : 3/22/2015 9:32 am : link
i love how you mention all the picks that didn't work out an fail to include all the ones that do.

Joseph -> Hankins
Corey Webster -> Prince
Hakeem Nicks -> OBJ

Also the diamond in the rough findings of Victor Cruz , Larry Donnell , and Stevie Brown (b4 injury)
Why do giant fans  
ODB13 : 3/22/2015 10:07 am : link
act like this guy was Ronnie Lott. This guy played every game for us which is the only positive thing I can say about him, he blew more coverages and whiffed on more tackles then anybody on the team and he publicly came and all the time defending one of worst defensive coordinators this organization has ever had Perry Fewell. I will never forget when Rolle threw his teammates under the bus after the Redskin game week 15 in 2011 The Giants won a super bowl with Michael Johnson in our secondary under Spags Rolle will not be the missing link on this team next year if guys like JPP step up and have a monster season and we get our pass rush back it will make Cooper Taylor or Berhe look like all pros
If they are healthy  
mrvax : 3/22/2015 10:33 am : link
I see nothing wrong with Taylor and Behre getting starting rolls at safety. Better them than Stevie Brown & Demps.
I smell  
Howyadoin : 3/22/2015 11:13 am : link
SHIT
RE: Why do giant fans  
Ten Ton Hammer : 3/22/2015 11:17 am : link
In comment 12197239 ODB13 said:
Quote:
act like this guy was Ronnie Lott. This guy played every game for us which is the only positive thing I can say about him, he blew more coverages and whiffed on more tackles then anybody on the team


Complete nonsense.
Rolle just wasn't worth the money  
LakeGeorgeGiant : 3/22/2015 11:54 am : link
Giving him another contract would have been a poor financial decision. As others have said his play had declined. Time to move on. We need some youth.
Have no idea if that  
The 12th Man : 3/22/2015 12:58 pm : link
Is true until the off season is done.
RE: Glad you agree. I think you're not going to have a lot of company.  
BMac : 3/22/2015 1:24 pm : link
In comment 12197068 Reese's Pieces said:
Quote:
Most of the regulars here just tend to agree with each other all the time. "Better one year early than one year too late," and gang up on anyone who disagrees.


And you constantly piss on everything. Does that make you any better?
RE: If they are healthy  
Jimmy Googs : 3/22/2015 1:38 pm : link
In comment 12197265 mrvax said:
Quote:
I see nothing wrong with Taylor and Behre getting starting rolls at safety. Better them than Stevie Brown & Demps.


You will see plenty wrong when we start Taylor and Behre. But I do agree that Brown and Demps offer nothing better.
Even if Rolle plays well this year  
LakeGeorgeGiant : 3/22/2015 1:45 pm : link
I won't be upset that they let him go. The dude is 32 and clearly the tank is running low.
RE: Why do giant fans  
Reese's Pieces : 3/23/2015 3:07 am : link
In comment 12197239 ODB13 said:
Quote:
act like this guy was Ronnie Lott. This guy played every game for us which is the only positive thing I can say about him, he blew more coverages and whiffed on more tackles then anybody on the team and he publicly came and all the time defending one of worst defensive coordinators this organization has ever had Perry Fewell. I will never forget when Rolle threw his teammates under the bus after the Redskin game week 15 in 2011 The Giants won a super bowl with Michael Johnson in our secondary under Spags Rolle will not be the missing link on this team next year if guys like JPP step up and have a monster season and we get our pass rush back it will make Cooper Taylor or Berhe look like all pros


Don't let the facts interfere with your opinion. In 2011 Rolle led the team in tackles and solo tackles, In 2012 he was second in tackles and led again in solo tackles. In 2013 he led again in both tackles and solo tackles. Yeah last year he fell off to only second in both tackles and solos, to McClain.

Otherwise, Rolle had a nine tackle lead over the guy who finished 3rd in tackles and a sixteen tackle lead over the guy who finished 3rd in solo tackles.

If the Giants had kept Will Hill and Rolle then, instead of looking for two safeties they would have one of the best tandems in the league while they looked for Rolle's replacement. Did you notice that the Cowboys signed a notorious wife beater? And the Giants cut Hill for smoking weed and everyone agreed. So the Cowboys will put themselves back at the top of the division and the Giants under John Mara and his lack of ability to make decisions will leave the team in the basement for years to come.

And Will Hill, by the way, won the Ravens' starting free safety position after two games. The Ravens, you may remember, are a bit better than the Giant, having made the playoffs in six of the last seasons.
letting Rolle walk  
Jersey55 : 3/24/2015 4:41 pm : link
I think any player looks good or bad depending on who is playing next to him and that point seems to get overlooked by a lot of people, players help each other out and that is not better emphasized in a defensive secondary
RE: letting Rolle walk  
Milton : 3/24/2015 5:24 pm : link
In comment 12201374 Jersey55 said:
Quote:
I think any player looks good or bad depending on who is playing next to him and that point seems to get overlooked by a lot of people, players help each other out and that is not better emphasized in a defensive secondary
And as the leader of the secondary, Rolle wasn't doing nearly enough to help others raise their level of play.
RE: RE: letting Rolle walk  
Ten Ton Hammer : 3/24/2015 5:32 pm : link
In comment 12201457 Milton said:
Quote:
In comment 12201374 Jersey55 said:


Quote:


I think any player looks good or bad depending on who is playing next to him and that point seems to get overlooked by a lot of people, players help each other out and that is not better emphasized in a defensive secondary

And as the leader of the secondary, Rolle wasn't doing nearly enough to help others raise their level of play.


Nobody was. I don't think that's fair to single him out for. Antrel Rolle at his best was a fine player, but it's not like he's some incredible leader that can turn average players into stars. It's an unfair standard.

What would raise the level of the secondary's play was better coaching last season, and better work from the front 7
RE: RE: RE: letting Rolle walk  
Milton : 3/24/2015 5:59 pm : link
In comment 12201475 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
I don't think that's fair to single him out for. Antrel Rolle at his best was a fine player, but it's not like he's some incredible leader that can turn average players into stars. It's an unfair standard.

What would raise the level of the secondary's play was better coaching last season, and better work from the front 7
Coaches teach and to some degree, motivate as well; but it's also up to the leaders in the locker room to make sure that "the troops" are accountable. This is especially important following the new CBA which limits the quantity and quality of practice time. So it's up to the leaders like Rolle to make sure that he and the rest of the secondary are putting in extra hours in the film room and sharing notes. Because the problem with the secondary wasn't a lack of stars, it was a lack of communication, it was players not knowing their assignments.
Agree with everything Reese's Pieces said above  
PatersonPlank : 3/24/2015 8:24 pm : link
Plus the fact that Rolle was continually asked to play out of position, or do additional things that others' weren't, because of our weakness back there. This was pointed out not only by Rolle, but by the coaching staff. So here is a guy that is our best DB, and being asked to do other things in addition to cover up deficiencies in other players.

This guy will be greatly missed.
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