I dont trade the #1 pick for one year of Durant. He'd have to commit to extending. And given the sullen relationship he and Westbrook have with the OKC media, I wouldnt trust him to resign w/o a pre-commitment.
Also, I dont know why anyone is signing up for him give his foot problems. For all we know, his career is effectively in a new, lesser chapter.
I dont trade the #1 pick for one year of Durant. He'd have to commit to extending. And given the sullen relationship he and Westbrook have with the OKC media, I wouldnt trust him to resign w/o a pre-commitment.
Also, I dont know why anyone is signing up for him give his foot problems. For all we know, his career is effectively in a new, lesser chapter.
Lebron is consistently dinged the past few seasons, Davis is injury prone. Every player has warts. How many superstars are traded somewhere for one year and bolt? Dwight Howard is the only recent example I can come up with and he was an anomaly and DESPISED Kobe (vice versa)
I dont trade the #1 pick for one year of Durant. He'd have to commit to extending. And given the sullen relationship he and Westbrook have with the OKC media, I wouldnt trust him to resign w/o a pre-commitment.
Also, I dont know why anyone is signing up for him give his foot problems. For all we know, his career is effectively in a new, lesser chapter.
If you are so concerned about the foot why would you want him to commit to extending anyway? Can't have it both ways.
im curious to see what ledo can do. Although just like shved even if he plays well it will just seem like a guy putting up numbers cause someone on the team has to score.
and #1 for durant? Of course you do that, its a no brainer. The foot issue would obviously need to check out.
would trade the #1 for KD if and only if I was convinced KD would re-sign. I'm convinced after watching more of Kentucky that Towns' floor is an above-average version of the most valuable asset class in the NBA - interior defender with talent in all three key defensive areas for bigs (defending P&R, defending post-ups, helping at the rim). A player who can do that and be even a halfway-decent offensive player is, at worst, a top-50 player in the NBA; Towns' ceiling is probably a guy who gets DPOY votes as an above-average offensive center, which is a top-20 player. In a vacuum, I'd rather have Durant than Towns (duh), but I'd probably rather have four cost-controlled years of Towns and four more years of Towns on his pre-RFA extension than one year of Durant with a potential lingering foot issue. It will be a lot easier to build a serious contender on an ongoing basis if that contender has one star-level player on a rookie contract.
And, to be honest, as much as I love Durant, I really want the draft pick. It's been 30 years since the Knicks have been in this position. In my lifetime ('89) the Knicks have never drafted and developed their own franchise centerpiece - not even once.
we all know we cant trade the pick, but nothing stops us from basically having a deal in place, we just cant finalize it until after the pick is made.
Not that it matters, i mean even if OKC makes Durant available i dont see how we can make a deal with basically just the #1 pick. I mean Kevin Love went for basically a couple #1's and Wiggins was though of just as highly or even higher then any of the guys in this draft.
We can't trade the pick. We can draft a player and then trade him.
Depending on what you mean by "we can't trade the pick," that may or may not be true. On CBA FAQ (Larry Coon's site) I see the following restrictions applying:
- Lottery picks cannot be traded from 6:00 PM on the day before the draft lottery until the lottery is complete.
- Teams cannot trade picks in that day's draft on the day of the draft before the pick is made.
- A team cannot sign and immediately trade a draft pick in a sign-and-trade arrangement,.
I can't find what constitutes "immediately" for that last clause. In any case, I don't see any restriction indicating that the Knicks couldn't trade the #1 pick on any day in between the lottery and the draft, excluding the actual lottery date and the actual draft date.
trading the pick. That's why we can still pick the player and then trade him.
Yeah, I remembered about five seconds after hitting Submit, lol.
I love Durant, I just really want to draft a stud and watch him become the type of player that can anchor a contender for a decade. You know, the thing normal teams hope to do after tanking :)
Would you trade the #1 overall pick for Durant if the Thunder made the slim reaper available?
100% no doubt about it. Durant is probably the 3rd best player in the NBA and is still only 26 years old.
Beware the Big Man with the FEET. BEEEEEWARE.
If you could guarantee me that Durant's foot issues won't linger, i'd gladly trade the pick and then some for Durant. I don't even care about the pending contract. If Durant wants to get traded to NY, i'd do it.
But those feet....huge red flag in my eyes. Big men and stinky feet don't mix.
every time the KNicks make a trade they "had to make" the trade blows the fuck up in their face. Every time they hand out a contract that they had to give, it fucks up.
This is the first time in 100 years the Knicks have a shot at a great young rookie. Don't fuck this up. Durant is awesome. He's grounded. He's gifted and he's a winner. And he's also hurt.
Ask yourself why OKC would even think about dealing this guy...actually never mind don't...OKC has fucked shit up too lately.
I just want to see a young talented Kid on the Knicks. We need that here.
Knicks only use up 7 million in cap space and get themselves a young star
Still have around 25 million to sign Monroe and someone else
Would give Knicks one of the best front courts in NBA.
No. cousins isn't clean enough from most accounts. Don't care about the risk involved with the draft. I want to keep the pick.
I'll keep saying it but probably the only way the Knicks can ensure that they field a title team sooner than later is if they keep the pick and hit a HR. Every other option, while "safer" also carries with it less upside--Durant excluded.
Yes, cousins probably is a better player than Oak or Russell or Towns...probably always will be a better player. I don't care. You want a legend? Keep the pick and surround him with the right influences and coach the shit out of him.
The biggest risk is keeping the pick and it could also yield the greatest reward.
Point well taken. But Melos window is closing and closing fast especially with the latest surgery. Is a 19 year old phenom going to mature enough to win a championship?
I am not thinking about Melo. I am thinking about drafting the best player available. I want a kid that will grow with this team and lead this team. With all due respect to Melo who is a great player in his own right, fuck #7. IF the Knicks draft a player with Melo in mind then we are fucked for the next ten years.
Draft the best player. Melo will be ok.
Honestly I would trade Melo for a top ten pick if I could get it. I think he's a great player but I don't think he's a great irreplaceable part and he is getting older. I'd rather lose this agenda that we have to win in 1-2 years and just get as many good young players in here, surround them with good locker room guys and go from there. Melo isn't a problem but he isn't the solution either. I think that's as clear as day.
If they trade Melo, the contract he signed here is no harm no foul and the Knicks at least recoup some of the assets they dealt for Melo in the first place.
I doubt it happens now that Melo is coming off surgery but I am hoping some team looking to win now calls the Knicks on draft night and dangles a decent first rounder. I think you have to do that deal. You shed salary and get another pick. And again, it's not like we would be dealing away a huge locker room leader. Melo is a followed. Not a leader. And i'm not trying to shit on the guy because he's a damn good player. I just don't think he's irreplaceable in the sense of the team. But I will gladly change my tune if Melo is dropping 20 a night for the next few years while this team is winning 55 a year.
If they trade Melo, the contract he signed here is no harm no foul and the Knicks at least recoup some of the assets they dealt for Melo in the first place.
I doubt it happens now that Melo is coming off surgery but I am hoping some team looking to win now calls the Knicks on draft night and dangles a decent first rounder. I think you have to do that deal. You shed salary and get another pick. And again, it's not like we would be dealing away a huge locker room leader. Melo is a followed. Not a leader. And i'm not trying to shit on the guy because he's a damn good player. I just don't think he's irreplaceable in the sense of the team. But I will gladly change my tune if Melo is dropping 20 a night for the next few years while this team is winning 55 a year.
But here is the thing the Knicks do not have a pick next year...
So say you trade Melo for a pick, you cant tank next year losing does nothing for this team...
So you have two 1st round picks on the team great but who is signing here to play with those guys? no one...
The people that say trade Melo fail to realize this, no one is signing here if Melo is gone...
I'd trade #1/2/3 for Durant right now. Haven't we seen this before? You do realize he is a 6'11 guy who just missed a large chunk of the season with a foot injury that he re-aggravated. Cousins is a different story. However I really think the way to go is to get one of the cost controlled stars in this draft. That's how teams build a winner. yes not having our pick next year complicates that process, but having Melo already is a luxury many teams don't have when building up from the bottom so that sort of takes the place of the pick. Use the cap room to sign guys in or heading into their prime (Greg Monroe). I'm sorry I've been down the Antonio McDyess road too many times to fall for Lucy holding the football for Charlie Brown again. Now if somehow we drop to #5 then it changes the equation a bit.
Yes, he's an under-the-basket player, but even that type needs two actual knees to elivate on his shot. That just didn't exist this season, ever. There isn't anything I have read about his prognosis which suggests that he won't return to full strength. This isn't a deteriorating structural condition like Amar'e's.
if Oklahoma who is still a title contender when everyone is healthy would be willing to deal one of the best guys on the planet? I mean wouldn't they know his medical records better than anyone? See Amare and the Suns...
in negotiating. There's no need to negotiate with OKC. Knicks pick there player. Durant comes to NY as a FA if he wants to. You keep both players. OKC has zero bargaining power.
Why give them a top five player if you don't have to.
Aldridge piece makes it sound like it's clearly Mudiay as the top guard, not even close to a 50/50 split. Workouts will really be huge this year. Gotta believe Towns is currently #1 overall, Okafor #2 and the guard teams like more #3. Russell is more polished but I hope Phil (IF he believes Mudiay to have more special upside) goes with the best player and not just "we can't waste 2015-2016 with Melo aging".
at people saying they wouldnt trade for Durant...this team hasnt won shit and your going to say no to a trade for the 3rd best player in the NBA? You can only pray that a player in this draft is half the player Durant is...
To answer the question why would OKC trade him, it is probably because he told them he is not resigning, same thing Melo did..
Doesnt mean they do not want him anymore, Denver still wanted Melo but he wasnt resigning so they were forced to trade him...
i know his numbers look great from the first game, but it was all jump shots. As i was watching i was like man he is having a great game, but its all long distance shooting and if they werent falling he would be having a horrible game. And thats exactly what happened in the second game. He needs to attack the basket more. A guy like him should dominate inside and out in college and i feel like as the season went on he become more and more of a jump shooter.
i know his numbers look great from the first game, but it was all jump shots. As i was watching i was like man he is having a great game, but its all long distance shooting and if they werent falling he would be having a horrible game. And thats exactly what happened in the second game. He needs to attack the basket more. A guy like him should dominate inside and out in college and i feel like as the season went on he become more and more of a jump shooter.
Yeah my biggest issue with him is he didn't look like he could get past his defender... and that's in college.
i know his numbers look great from the first game, but it was all jump shots. As i was watching i was like man he is having a great game, but its all long distance shooting and if they werent falling he would be having a horrible game. And thats exactly what happened in the second game. He needs to attack the basket more. A guy like him should dominate inside and out in college and i feel like as the season went on he become more and more of a jump shooter.
One thing i noticed he had trouble getting to the rim against a more athletic defender...he is mehtodical in his moves, he is not going to wow you with speed and athleticism, he has great handles but he is not going by a lot of people...
He plays against Westbrook, Irving, Curry, Paul...he is going to be taken to school
saw Wall mentioned in that piece but from what little I've seen of Mudiay his big time athleticism seems less "quicks" and more Marbury style. I remember Marbury once had this sick reverse alley-oop.
he would get hacked and the ref would never call anything becuase he wouldnt flinch...he had a quick first step and a great crossover and once he got into the lane he was a fantastic finisher...one of a few guys to average 20 and 8 for his career up until his last couple of years in the league which brought down his career averages....
Speaking of Marbury, won another Championship in China, i believe thats 3 in 4 years, another former Knick is on that team as well, Randolph Morris.
Mudiay-- discussion of his 2 games back in Chinese playoffs, w. tape
Linked. Mudiay played two games back-to-back in the playoffs, after not playing for most of the season. The write-up suggests that the overall impression was as good as could have been expected for a 19-y.o. playing overseas.
He certainly is more athletic than Russel, albeit a much weaker shooter, at least so far. If that is fixable, he will be outstanding. Link - ( New Window )
To answer the question why would OKC trade him, it is probably because he told them he is not resigning, same thing Melo did..
Doesnt mean they do not want him anymore, Denver still wanted Melo but he wasnt resigning so they were forced to trade him...
Totally totally different scenario. Oklahoma can win a title if everyone is healthy next year. Denver wasn't winning shit so dealing him was a no-brainer. If you are Oklahoma you absolutely take the same shot Cleveland did Lebron's last year hoping a deep title run changes his mind. Sorry big with foot problems? 26 or not I'm not trading a top 3 pick for him. This is the make we have made for almost 2 decades now leaping at the shiny and ignoring the warts.
To answer the question why would OKC trade him, it is probably because he told them he is not resigning, same thing Melo did..
Doesnt mean they do not want him anymore, Denver still wanted Melo but he wasnt resigning so they were forced to trade him...
Totally totally different scenario. Oklahoma can win a title if everyone is healthy next year. Denver wasn't winning shit so dealing him was a no-brainer. If you are Oklahoma you absolutely take the same shot Cleveland did Lebron's last year hoping a deep title run changes his mind. Sorry big with foot problems? 26 or not I'm not trading a top 3 pick for him. This is the make we have made for almost 2 decades now leaping at the shiny and ignoring the warts.
When have the Knicks ever had a chance at a player like Durant? if OKC says ok 1st pick for Durant there is no way in hell you pass that up...
I am sorry Durant just isnt some shiny new toy, we are talking about a player that changes the Knicks for the next 10 years...
He is 30, he is 26 you do not say no to trade for a Durant...
If it leaks that Phil could of traded for Durant and he passed he will be killed for it..
with the crowd about KD's foot. It seems crazy to say that but a foot injury with a guy his size is always problematic. Add that to the fact we have Melo coming off knee surgery... IDK. On the surface it's a no brainer but the long term health of his foot has to be a concern for a team that has made trades for and/or signed injured players in the past (McDyess, Amar'e).
I dont trade the #1 pick for one year of Durant. He'd have to commit to extending. And given the sullen relationship he and Westbrook have with the OKC media, I wouldnt trust him to resign w/o a pre-commitment.
Also, I dont know why anyone is signing up for him give his foot problems. For all we know, his career is effectively in a new, lesser chapter.
Lebron is consistently dinged the past few seasons, Davis is injury prone. Every player has warts. How many superstars are traded somewhere for one year and bolt? Dwight Howard is the only recent example I can come up with and he was an anomaly and DESPISED Kobe (vice versa)
I assume Kevin Love is a goner in Clev unless the situation changes dramatically.
How many superstars have been traded without a commitment to staying for at least 2 seasons? Chris Paul opted in. Melo forced his way to NY specifically. KG was a trade-and-extend. I dont really want to track down the Gasol and Ray Allen trades. What were the other superstar trades of recent vintage?
Re your other point: I dont really want to argue about medical stuff. I assume that this hypothetical trade would be contingent on a physical.
I dont trade the #1 pick for one year of Durant. He'd have to commit to extending. And given the sullen relationship he and Westbrook have with the OKC media, I wouldnt trust him to resign w/o a pre-commitment.
Also, I dont know why anyone is signing up for him give his foot problems. For all we know, his career is effectively in a new, lesser chapter.
Lebron is consistently dinged the past few seasons, Davis is injury prone. Every player has warts. How many superstars are traded somewhere for one year and bolt? Dwight Howard is the only recent example I can come up with and he was an anomaly and DESPISED Kobe (vice versa)
I assume Kevin Love is a goner in Clev unless the situation changes dramatically.
How many superstars have been traded without a commitment to staying for at least 2 seasons? Chris Paul opted in. Melo forced his way to NY specifically. KG was a trade-and-extend. I dont really want to track down the Gasol and Ray Allen trades. What were the other superstar trades of recent vintage?
Re your other point: I dont really want to argue about medical stuff. I assume that this hypothetical trade would be contingent on a physical.
and foot injuries are something you're probably better off staying away from.
You'd probably have to take Durant if they were willing to trade him for the top pick, but chances are it would blow up in our faces somehow. Either by injury or him leaving anyways.
vs. Durant's foot blowing up in our face/him walking after a year and make your decision based on that. I could see a solid argument either way. Me? I'd rather gamble on the top pick + Melo+ a free agent or two
no one worth getting in trade for the pick would be making less than $10 million or so more than the pick, so you are giving up the pick plus $10+ in cap room.
I have said this before but will repeat: That is remarkably risky for the Kicks specifically, because it would only leave room for three quality players. One of those three goes down, and the team is a train wreck again. If they keep the pick, at least they would have 4 players worth having in the starting lineup, and the opportunity to complete the set next year when the cap jumps. There really is a chance that the Knicks will have a very high-quality starting 5, across the board, if they don't trade the pick. Less of a chance if they do.
but Bill Simmons' latest trade value rankings placed Durant 6th.
Davis
LeBron
Curry
Westrbook
Harden
How many other players would you seriously take over Durant for the future?
Even with his foot injury risk, Durant has so much value in this league because of his historic scoring ability.
The Knicks franchise has been screwed by injuries so much so I get why you guys want to play it safe. But in a vacuum, there's no question that Durant still holds more value than the #1 pick in this draft.
All this hypothetical Knicks having a #1 pick talk
Said in some interview that he believed/believes the 2014 Draft was getting overhyped and that he actually thinks this one is stronger both at the top and throughout. Depending on who declares of course.
He also said that it's hard to predict the future but based on the international scene and the HS Seniors that the 2016 class does not look good at all.
as far as the top, I'd rank them like this as prospects
Wiggins
Towns
Okafor
Parker
Russell
Embiid (due to the foot injury... if healthy, he'd be #1)
Exum/Mudiay
I think the top of the draft last year vs. this year is probably a slight edge to this year due to Embiid's injury. But if Embiid was healthy, I don't think there's much of a debate that he was a better prospect than either Towns or Okafor imo. And Wiggins was the kind of special athlete from the wing position we hadn't seen in a while, he would be the likely #1 pick this year as well.
Parker was a stud but I wouldn't have taken him over Towns/Okafor.
I loved Exum last year, but Mudiay's got more explosiveness as an athlete. Tough to compare them with the others since their international guys.
wasnt even drafted last year. Or at least the guy who should win. There is no doubt the best rookie in this year's class is going to snubbed and Wiggins will win.
Payton/Oladipo are both so good. Oladipo is a guy that I just loved and Payton had some really good qualities. I was so happy to see them get to pair up down in Orlando.
In a few years those two are going to be picking apart the Eastern Conference.
He desperately needs a jump shot. But if he develops that, oh boy.
Shame that Orlando chose Aaron Gordon who sucks. Haven't really seen much of him at the NBA level, but I didn't like him at all as a prospect. Someone like Julius Randle would have been such a better pick IMO. I like the idea of Payton, Oladipo, Harris, Randle, and Vucevic a lot more than Aaron Gordon.
Because I saw a stat where when he plays over 30 minutes a game... he is averaging over 22 points and 10 boards a game.
Mirotic has played at a higher level than Wiggins this year. He has been excellent.
Easy to blame Thibbs, and you've definitely seen a lot more Bulls basketball than me. But Mirotic has only had 4 games over 30 minutes before this month. So wouldn't that statistic lead you to believe that Mirotic is just finally hitting his stride into being a consistent contributor as a rookie?
"he's such a good athlete, he'll figure it out somehow" picks. Bigtime hit or miss.
Dep, those types of stats aren't useful. The reason he played 30+ mins in those games is because he was playing well. He's not getting those stats because of the extra minutes. He's getting those extra minutes because of his performance in those games.
Mirotic is having a sick month. But over the course of the season Wiggins has been more impressive.
Orlando is another place I'd love to see WCS. I get a similar vibe from WCS that I got from Oladipo. Defense, toughness, smart, winner. I'd love to see those two anchor a defense together. And he'd really help cover for Vucevic's defense.
has been because Taj Gibson got hurt. When all their bigs have been healthy, Niko was the 4th big. And everyone knows how Thibs likes defense so Taj/Noah were/are his closers. Throw in the year Gasol is having, and minutes were limited to Mirotic.
But once Gibson got hurt. Throw in the injuries to Rose/Butler.... Mirotic's role had no choice but to expand. And he has been flat out awesome. Sure I am a bit of a homer, but I really believe he is an all-star type player. His defense is actually much better than I thought too.
All I hope for is every Bull to come back healthy. Because Mirotic has played a bit of the three this year. So even if he doesnt start, he will get some time at the 3/4 come playoff time.
I understand that Wiggins will win it, but I think Mirotic is going to be a household name soon. Osi also had a good one in Payton, he has really stepped it up.
believe it or not, I am going to support Harden make 1st team all-NBA even though I dont think he will. Its idiotic that htey have 2 guards and 3 bigs make the team.
The 5 best players in the NBA probably have never been more clear in history. Curry, Harden, Westbrook, Lebron, Davis. All 5 of them should be on the first team. But I truly believe it will go like this:
1st team:
Curry, Westbrook, James, Davis, Cousins
2nd team:
Harden, Paul, Griffin, Gasol, Gasol
3rd Team:
Wall, Irving, then I dont have the slightest clue. All the SFs got hurt this year. Maybe Butler can slide in there.
That team would take a huge step forward if WCS and Vucevic can figure out a way to co-exist offensively. That's a really interesting destination that I kind of really want to see, especially since it's so realistic. Unlike my Suns option, who appears out of contention for WCS.
I wonder if Orlando goes for it though. I think they are going to go for an "Aaron Gordon" type of pick again this year, and for good reason. That team is kind of weird in that it's already almost what it is. A lot of those starting positions are sure to stay as is for a couple of years. If they are going to have a high pick, they are going to want to roll the dice and see if they can get someone that can put them over the hump.
It would be interesting to see if they'd go for a guy like Mario Hezonja. I haven't seen a second of him play. But by everything I've read, he's the prototypical heat check guy who thinks he's the best player on the court at all times. It would be interesting to see how that type of player would play out on this Orlando roster that's currently constructed.
I hope Harden makes the 1st team. I think he deserves it. But I really wouldn't be too disappointed if Russ/Curry make it over him. I know those two have more fans and get more media love. And they're also awesome players who are arguably better than Harden.
I'm just proud of Harden for growing the way he has this year. MVP, 1st team All-NBA... cool stuff but whatever. His growth this year as a player and leader matter so much more to me than any award. All I care about is how Harden plays in the playoffs because that's the only question remaining with him.
I hope Harden makes the 1st team. I think he deserves it. But I really wouldn't be too disappointed if Russ/Curry make it over him. I know those two have more fans and get more media love. And they're also awesome players who are arguably better than Harden.
I'm just proud of Harden for growing the way he has this year. MVP, 1st team All-NBA... cool stuff but whatever. His growth this year as a player and leader matter so much more to me than any award. All I care about is how Harden plays in the playoffs because that's the only question remaining with him.
really happy to see him have a resurgence this year. He doesn't get enough credit for being an absolute Champion. A guy who carried Kobe's ass in the playoffs plenty of times. A guy who carried mediocre Memphis teams to 50 win seasons.
But Marc's better right now even though the stats might tip Pau's way due to boards.
might make 2nd team. With all the fowards getting hurt this year (Melo, George, Durant, Griffin missing time...) the three best big outside AD have been the Gasols and Cousins.
in the 3rd quarter tonight held the Wizards to 8 points and a total of one field goal in the 3rd quarter. That field goal came with 1 minute left in the 3rd, so they went without a field goal for 11 minutes. Insane.
Out of their fucking mind for not trading Klay for KLove. I just couldn't figure it out. I thought Klay was incredibly overrated and was just a guy who lived and died by the jumper. Once again, I've been proven wrong.
Oddly enough, I really didn't want the Cavs to trade Wiggins for KLove though. I just liked the idea of Wiggins and LeBron locking down any wing who dares to step foot on the same court as them. Not to mention Wiggins cutting to the basket 24/7 with LeBron and Irving feeding him for highlight reel after highlight reel. I loved the thought of LeBron passing the torch onto Wiggins 3-4 years down the line. It just seemed like the situation the Cleveland sports fans in general deserved.
But now we have KLove. Square peg in a round hole. For shame.
as one of the great "What if's/WTF were they thinking" moves in league history if Wiggins turns into the player most expect.
I thought the Cavs should've kept Wiggins. But I also thought the Warriors should've traded Klay. I always liked Klay because guys who shoot like him usually don't defend like he did. But Curry/Love just sounded too good to pass up and I didn't think Klay had this level in him.
But even before the season I changed my mind on that. Klay might've been the most impressive player on Team USA and definitely made me reconsider that no-trade. Definitely worked out for them.
but certainly was not about Love. No one ever seemed bother by the fact that his teams in Minny never even sniffed a playoff spot, just kept making excuse after excuse for it. I know the talent around him wasn't any good, but if he was as good as people said he was they at least once would have been in playoffs or playoff contention.
He's a great fantasy basketball player, and that's one of many reasons people had some ridiculously inflated view of him as a player
the fact that he sucks on D is a huge issue. I never ignored that. Check out the "Love/LeBron to Cleveland" threads when everyone was crying "unfair!" and I brought up how Love wasn't a good defender and never made the playoffs.
But I think the issue with him is "fit" more than "he's a loser". I put a lot of blame on LeBron and Kyrie. Kyrie is a brilliant scorer but not a true PG who knows how to get everyone involved. And LeBron is doing the same thing to Love that he did to Bosh, minimizing his role on Offense.
Anthony Davis won't be making for the playoffs for 3 years in a row
And he's still going to be the face of this sport sooner rather than later. I just chalked it up to one guy can only do so much, especially in a no joke conference.
But this Cavalier experience definitely opened my eyes. I mean, he's definitely still a really good player. He didn't forget how to play offense. The coach clearly put him in a role where he's not comfortable. His game isn't to be a stretch four jump shooter, and that's what he's forced to do right now.
He's still averaging a double-double. We saw how Bosh's role was minimized when LeBron went to Miami. KLove just isn't the top 10 player I thought he was. And now I'm convinced that he's such a rebound machine because he's more worried about getting a board off the shot rather than defending the guy actually shooting it.
And he's still going to be the face of this sport sooner rather than later. I just chalked it up to one guy can only do so much, especially in a no joke conference.
But this Cavalier experience definitely opened my eyes. I mean, he's definitely still a really good player. He didn't forget how to play offense. The coach clearly put him in a role where he's not comfortable. His game isn't to be a stretch four jump shooter, and that's what he's forced to do right now.
He's still averaging a double-double. We saw how Bosh's role was minimized when LeBron went to Miami. KLove just isn't the top 10 player I thought he was. And now I'm convinced that he's such a rebound machine because he's more worried about getting a board off the shot rather than defending the guy actually shooting it.
Davis is at least sniffing the playoffs this year. The closest Love ever came to making the playoffs was 9 games. New Orleans is also 4 games above .500. Closest Love ever got to .500 was 40-42. Davis will be in the playoffs next year or at the very worst contending for a playoff spot. Kevin Love's teams come this point of the year never even had a prayer.
And he's still going to be the face of this sport sooner rather than later. I just chalked it up to one guy can only do so much, especially in a no joke conference.
Is it too early to call the Jrue Holiday to the Pelicans draft day trade even more of a disaster than we thought on draft night of 2013?
Anthony Davis & Nerlens Noel... neither one is a center, but I wouldn't care.
100% no doubt about it. Durant is probably the 3rd best player in the NBA and is still only 26 years old.
Also, I dont know why anyone is signing up for him give his foot problems. For all we know, his career is effectively in a new, lesser chapter.
Also, I dont know why anyone is signing up for him give his foot problems. For all we know, his career is effectively in a new, lesser chapter.
Lebron is consistently dinged the past few seasons, Davis is injury prone. Every player has warts. How many superstars are traded somewhere for one year and bolt? Dwight Howard is the only recent example I can come up with and he was an anomaly and DESPISED Kobe (vice versa)
Also, I dont know why anyone is signing up for him give his foot problems. For all we know, his career is effectively in a new, lesser chapter.
If you are so concerned about the foot why would you want him to commit to extending anyway? Can't have it both ways.
and #1 for durant? Of course you do that, its a no brainer. The foot issue would obviously need to check out.
And, to be honest, as much as I love Durant, I really want the draft pick. It's been 30 years since the Knicks have been in this position. In my lifetime ('89) the Knicks have never drafted and developed their own franchise centerpiece - not even once.
We can't trade the pick. We can draft a player and then trade him.
Possible if he comes with a hot tub time machine.
Not that it matters, i mean even if OKC makes Durant available i dont see how we can make a deal with basically just the #1 pick. I mean Kevin Love went for basically a couple #1's and Wiggins was though of just as highly or even higher then any of the guys in this draft.
Depending on what you mean by "we can't trade the pick," that may or may not be true. On CBA FAQ (Larry Coon's site) I see the following restrictions applying:
- Lottery picks cannot be traded from 6:00 PM on the day before the draft lottery until the lottery is complete.
- Teams cannot trade picks in that day's draft on the day of the draft before the pick is made.
- A team cannot sign and immediately trade a draft pick in a sign-and-trade arrangement,.
I can't find what constitutes "immediately" for that last clause. In any case, I don't see any restriction indicating that the Knicks couldn't trade the #1 pick on any day in between the lottery and the draft, excluding the actual lottery date and the actual draft date.
Yeah, I remembered about five seconds after hitting Submit, lol.
I love Durant, I just really want to draft a stud and watch him become the type of player that can anchor a contender for a decade. You know, the thing normal teams hope to do after tanking :)
It is the same thing that happened with the Cavs and Wolves..they had to wait 30 day sbefore deal was official...
Knicks only use up 7 million in cap space and get themselves a young star
Still have around 25 million to sign Monroe and someone else
Would give Knicks one of the best front courts in NBA.
Knicks only use up 7 million in cap space and get themselves a young star
Still have around 25 million to sign Monroe and someone else
Would give Knicks one of the best front courts in NBA.
Isn't that also like 4 players at the most?
Under the cap teams do not have the mid level or mini mid lever...
they only have the room exception at 2.5 million
Vet PG
Danny Green
Melo
Monroe
Cousins
id be ok with a bench consisting of cheap vets. There is no scenario where you build a great starting 5 and deep bench in one offseason.
I expect Aldrich, Early, Shved(if he comes back cheap), Galloway, Thomas, Amundson
I think Phil will try to bring back Jason Smith...
I think THJR ends up being traded for another pick on draft day...
I think they had a vet bench scorer with the 2.5 exception they will have to add to those bench guys...
Not funny.
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Would you trade the #1 overall pick for Durant if the Thunder made the slim reaper available?
100% no doubt about it. Durant is probably the 3rd best player in the NBA and is still only 26 years old.
Beware the Big Man with the FEET. BEEEEEWARE.
If you could guarantee me that Durant's foot issues won't linger, i'd gladly trade the pick and then some for Durant. I don't even care about the pending contract. If Durant wants to get traded to NY, i'd do it.
But those feet....huge red flag in my eyes. Big men and stinky feet don't mix.
This is the first time in 100 years the Knicks have a shot at a great young rookie. Don't fuck this up. Durant is awesome. He's grounded. He's gifted and he's a winner. And he's also hurt.
Ask yourself why OKC would even think about dealing this guy...actually never mind don't...OKC has fucked shit up too lately.
I just want to see a young talented Kid on the Knicks. We need that here.
Knicks only use up 7 million in cap space and get themselves a young star
Still have around 25 million to sign Monroe and someone else
Would give Knicks one of the best front courts in NBA.
No. cousins isn't clean enough from most accounts. Don't care about the risk involved with the draft. I want to keep the pick.
I'll keep saying it but probably the only way the Knicks can ensure that they field a title team sooner than later is if they keep the pick and hit a HR. Every other option, while "safer" also carries with it less upside--Durant excluded.
Yes, cousins probably is a better player than Oak or Russell or Towns...probably always will be a better player. I don't care. You want a legend? Keep the pick and surround him with the right influences and coach the shit out of him.
The biggest risk is keeping the pick and it could also yield the greatest reward.
Draft the best player. Melo will be ok.
Honestly I would trade Melo for a top ten pick if I could get it. I think he's a great player but I don't think he's a great irreplaceable part and he is getting older. I'd rather lose this agenda that we have to win in 1-2 years and just get as many good young players in here, surround them with good locker room guys and go from there. Melo isn't a problem but he isn't the solution either. I think that's as clear as day.
Phil even said the Pick is huge for the future, Free Agency will be how they build a championship team...
If they trade Melo, the contract he signed here is no harm no foul and the Knicks at least recoup some of the assets they dealt for Melo in the first place.
I doubt it happens now that Melo is coming off surgery but I am hoping some team looking to win now calls the Knicks on draft night and dangles a decent first rounder. I think you have to do that deal. You shed salary and get another pick. And again, it's not like we would be dealing away a huge locker room leader. Melo is a followed. Not a leader. And i'm not trying to shit on the guy because he's a damn good player. I just don't think he's irreplaceable in the sense of the team. But I will gladly change my tune if Melo is dropping 20 a night for the next few years while this team is winning 55 a year.
I'd only trade the pick if it brought back a sure fire legend and we didn't have cap space. We have the space to sign that good filler type.
The only real way this team reaches glorious heights is if they nail this pick. You know it. I know it.
If they trade Melo, the contract he signed here is no harm no foul and the Knicks at least recoup some of the assets they dealt for Melo in the first place.
I doubt it happens now that Melo is coming off surgery but I am hoping some team looking to win now calls the Knicks on draft night and dangles a decent first rounder. I think you have to do that deal. You shed salary and get another pick. And again, it's not like we would be dealing away a huge locker room leader. Melo is a followed. Not a leader. And i'm not trying to shit on the guy because he's a damn good player. I just don't think he's irreplaceable in the sense of the team. But I will gladly change my tune if Melo is dropping 20 a night for the next few years while this team is winning 55 a year.
But here is the thing the Knicks do not have a pick next year...
So say you trade Melo for a pick, you cant tank next year losing does nothing for this team...
So you have two 1st round picks on the team great but who is signing here to play with those guys? no one...
The people that say trade Melo fail to realize this, no one is signing here if Melo is gone...
Melo is doing the recruiting not Phil
I'm nervous that Melo won't be the same player following surgery.
I'm nervous that Melo won't be the same player following surgery.
I am not worried about that for one reason, Melo's game is not based on athleticism...he is an under the basket type of player....
And even when he was hurt this year, its not like he was absolutely terrible...
Yes, he's an under-the-basket player, but even that type needs two actual knees to elivate on his shot. That just didn't exist this season, ever. There isn't anything I have read about his prognosis which suggests that he won't return to full strength. This isn't a deteriorating structural condition like Amar'e's.
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Why give them a top five player if you don't have to.
Yeah... I think Muiday's elite level athleticism is tipping the scale his way.
I believe he was 6 months or so removed from knee surgery. And then he came to NY and got hurt over and over again.
To answer the question why would OKC trade him, it is probably because he told them he is not resigning, same thing Melo did..
Doesnt mean they do not want him anymore, Denver still wanted Melo but he wasnt resigning so they were forced to trade him...
Yeah my biggest issue with him is he didn't look like he could get past his defender... and that's in college.
One thing i noticed he had trouble getting to the rim against a more athletic defender...he is mehtodical in his moves, he is not going to wow you with speed and athleticism, he has great handles but he is not going by a lot of people...
He plays against Westbrook, Irving, Curry, Paul...he is going to be taken to school
Speaking of Marbury, won another Championship in China, i believe thats 3 in 4 years, another former Knick is on that team as well, Randolph Morris.
He certainly is more athletic than Russel, albeit a much weaker shooter, at least so far. If that is fixable, he will be outstanding.
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To answer the question why would OKC trade him, it is probably because he told them he is not resigning, same thing Melo did..
Doesnt mean they do not want him anymore, Denver still wanted Melo but he wasnt resigning so they were forced to trade him...
Totally totally different scenario. Oklahoma can win a title if everyone is healthy next year. Denver wasn't winning shit so dealing him was a no-brainer. If you are Oklahoma you absolutely take the same shot Cleveland did Lebron's last year hoping a deep title run changes his mind. Sorry big with foot problems? 26 or not I'm not trading a top 3 pick for him. This is the make we have made for almost 2 decades now leaping at the shiny and ignoring the warts.
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To answer the question why would OKC trade him, it is probably because he told them he is not resigning, same thing Melo did..
Doesnt mean they do not want him anymore, Denver still wanted Melo but he wasnt resigning so they were forced to trade him...
Totally totally different scenario. Oklahoma can win a title if everyone is healthy next year. Denver wasn't winning shit so dealing him was a no-brainer. If you are Oklahoma you absolutely take the same shot Cleveland did Lebron's last year hoping a deep title run changes his mind. Sorry big with foot problems? 26 or not I'm not trading a top 3 pick for him. This is the make we have made for almost 2 decades now leaping at the shiny and ignoring the warts.
When have the Knicks ever had a chance at a player like Durant? if OKC says ok 1st pick for Durant there is no way in hell you pass that up...
I am sorry Durant just isnt some shiny new toy, we are talking about a player that changes the Knicks for the next 10 years...
He is 30, he is 26 you do not say no to trade for a Durant...
If it leaks that Phil could of traded for Durant and he passed he will be killed for it..
You pair him with Melo and you got makings of a contender and you say no, why? for the hope a 1st pick gets to that level in 5 years?
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I dont trade the #1 pick for one year of Durant. He'd have to commit to extending. And given the sullen relationship he and Westbrook have with the OKC media, I wouldnt trust him to resign w/o a pre-commitment.
Also, I dont know why anyone is signing up for him give his foot problems. For all we know, his career is effectively in a new, lesser chapter.
Lebron is consistently dinged the past few seasons, Davis is injury prone. Every player has warts. How many superstars are traded somewhere for one year and bolt? Dwight Howard is the only recent example I can come up with and he was an anomaly and DESPISED Kobe (vice versa)
I assume Kevin Love is a goner in Clev unless the situation changes dramatically.
How many superstars have been traded without a commitment to staying for at least 2 seasons? Chris Paul opted in. Melo forced his way to NY specifically. KG was a trade-and-extend. I dont really want to track down the Gasol and Ray Allen trades. What were the other superstar trades of recent vintage?
Re your other point: I dont really want to argue about medical stuff. I assume that this hypothetical trade would be contingent on a physical.
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In comment 12198582 Deej said:
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I dont trade the #1 pick for one year of Durant. He'd have to commit to extending. And given the sullen relationship he and Westbrook have with the OKC media, I wouldnt trust him to resign w/o a pre-commitment.
Also, I dont know why anyone is signing up for him give his foot problems. For all we know, his career is effectively in a new, lesser chapter.
Lebron is consistently dinged the past few seasons, Davis is injury prone. Every player has warts. How many superstars are traded somewhere for one year and bolt? Dwight Howard is the only recent example I can come up with and he was an anomaly and DESPISED Kobe (vice versa)
I assume Kevin Love is a goner in Clev unless the situation changes dramatically.
How many superstars have been traded without a commitment to staying for at least 2 seasons? Chris Paul opted in. Melo forced his way to NY specifically. KG was a trade-and-extend. I dont really want to track down the Gasol and Ray Allen trades. What were the other superstar trades of recent vintage?
Re your other point: I dont really want to argue about medical stuff. I assume that this hypothetical trade would be contingent on a physical.
Dwight Howard has to be the most glaring...
You'd probably have to take Durant if they were willing to trade him for the top pick, but chances are it would blow up in our faces somehow. Either by injury or him leaving anyways.
But i dont know i wouldhave trouble passing on that trade...
Sucks that we've reached this point with Durant though. Disgusts me that injuries might take his true potential away from us.
The problem is can you name one big man who had foot injuries that got better over time and not worse?
The problem is can you name one big man who had foot injuries that got better over time and not worse?
Bingo. I'm not sure I would trade the pick for anyone who would reasonably be available anyway.
I have said this before but will repeat: That is remarkably risky for the Kicks specifically, because it would only leave room for three quality players. One of those three goes down, and the team is a train wreck again. If they keep the pick, at least they would have 4 players worth having in the starting lineup, and the opportunity to complete the set next year when the cap jumps. There really is a chance that the Knicks will have a very high-quality starting 5, across the board, if they don't trade the pick. Less of a chance if they do.
The problem is can you name one big man who had foot injuries that got better over time and not worse?
Big Z is the only guy who comes to mind, and that took 4 years. He was also 22 when he got hurt.
Davis
LeBron
Curry
Westrbook
Harden
How many other players would you seriously take over Durant for the future?
Even with his foot injury risk, Durant has so much value in this league because of his historic scoring ability.
The Knicks franchise has been screwed by injuries so much so I get why you guys want to play it safe. But in a vacuum, there's no question that Durant still holds more value than the #1 pick in this draft.
He also said that it's hard to predict the future but based on the international scene and the HS Seniors that the 2016 class does not look good at all.
Towns
Okafor
Parker
Russell
Embiid (due to the foot injury... if healthy, he'd be #1)
Exum/Mudiay
I think the top of the draft last year vs. this year is probably a slight edge to this year due to Embiid's injury. But if Embiid was healthy, I don't think there's much of a debate that he was a better prospect than either Towns or Okafor imo. And Wiggins was the kind of special athlete from the wing position we hadn't seen in a while, he would be the likely #1 pick this year as well.
Parker was a stud but I wouldn't have taken him over Towns/Okafor.
I loved Exum last year, but Mudiay's got more explosiveness as an athlete. Tough to compare them with the others since their international guys.
In a few years those two are going to be picking apart the Eastern Conference.
Shame that Orlando chose Aaron Gordon who sucks. Haven't really seen much of him at the NBA level, but I didn't like him at all as a prospect. Someone like Julius Randle would have been such a better pick IMO. I like the idea of Payton, Oladipo, Harris, Randle, and Vucevic a lot more than Aaron Gordon.
Mirotic has played at a higher level than Wiggins this year. He has been excellent.
Mirotic has played at a higher level than Wiggins this year. He has been excellent.
Easy to blame Thibbs, and you've definitely seen a lot more Bulls basketball than me. But Mirotic has only had 4 games over 30 minutes before this month. So wouldn't that statistic lead you to believe that Mirotic is just finally hitting his stride into being a consistent contributor as a rookie?
Dep, those types of stats aren't useful. The reason he played 30+ mins in those games is because he was playing well. He's not getting those stats because of the extra minutes. He's getting those extra minutes because of his performance in those games.
Mirotic is having a sick month. But over the course of the season Wiggins has been more impressive.
But once Gibson got hurt. Throw in the injuries to Rose/Butler.... Mirotic's role had no choice but to expand. And he has been flat out awesome. Sure I am a bit of a homer, but I really believe he is an all-star type player. His defense is actually much better than I thought too.
All I hope for is every Bull to come back healthy. Because Mirotic has played a bit of the three this year. So even if he doesnt start, he will get some time at the 3/4 come playoff time.
I understand that Wiggins will win it, but I think Mirotic is going to be a household name soon. Osi also had a good one in Payton, he has really stepped it up.
The 5 best players in the NBA probably have never been more clear in history. Curry, Harden, Westbrook, Lebron, Davis. All 5 of them should be on the first team. But I truly believe it will go like this:
1st team:
Curry, Westbrook, James, Davis, Cousins
2nd team:
Harden, Paul, Griffin, Gasol, Gasol
3rd Team:
Wall, Irving, then I dont have the slightest clue. All the SFs got hurt this year. Maybe Butler can slide in there.
I wonder if Orlando goes for it though. I think they are going to go for an "Aaron Gordon" type of pick again this year, and for good reason. That team is kind of weird in that it's already almost what it is. A lot of those starting positions are sure to stay as is for a couple of years. If they are going to have a high pick, they are going to want to roll the dice and see if they can get someone that can put them over the hump.
It would be interesting to see if they'd go for a guy like Mario Hezonja. I haven't seen a second of him play. But by everything I've read, he's the prototypical heat check guy who thinks he's the best player on the court at all times. It would be interesting to see how that type of player would play out on this Orlando roster that's currently constructed.
I'm just proud of Harden for growing the way he has this year. MVP, 1st team All-NBA... cool stuff but whatever. His growth this year as a player and leader matter so much more to me than any award. All I care about is how Harden plays in the playoffs because that's the only question remaining with him.
I'm just proud of Harden for growing the way he has this year. MVP, 1st team All-NBA... cool stuff but whatever. His growth this year as a player and leader matter so much more to me than any award. All I care about is how Harden plays in the playoffs because that's the only question remaining with him.
Which Gasol?
But Marc's better right now even though the stats might tip Pau's way due to boards.
It looked weak in July, it looks even worse now.
It was an awful idea the entire time. Kevin Love is a loser. Plain and simple.
Knicks now can win one game the rest of the year and still have the worst record.
Oddly enough, I really didn't want the Cavs to trade Wiggins for KLove though. I just liked the idea of Wiggins and LeBron locking down any wing who dares to step foot on the same court as them. Not to mention Wiggins cutting to the basket 24/7 with LeBron and Irving feeding him for highlight reel after highlight reel. I loved the thought of LeBron passing the torch onto Wiggins 3-4 years down the line. It just seemed like the situation the Cleveland sports fans in general deserved.
But now we have KLove. Square peg in a round hole. For shame.
I thought the Cavs should've kept Wiggins. But I also thought the Warriors should've traded Klay. I always liked Klay because guys who shoot like him usually don't defend like he did. But Curry/Love just sounded too good to pass up and I didn't think Klay had this level in him.
But even before the season I changed my mind on that. Klay might've been the most impressive player on Team USA and definitely made me reconsider that no-trade. Definitely worked out for them.
He's a great fantasy basketball player, and that's one of many reasons people had some ridiculously inflated view of him as a player
But I think the issue with him is "fit" more than "he's a loser". I put a lot of blame on LeBron and Kyrie. Kyrie is a brilliant scorer but not a true PG who knows how to get everyone involved. And LeBron is doing the same thing to Love that he did to Bosh, minimizing his role on Offense.
But this Cavalier experience definitely opened my eyes. I mean, he's definitely still a really good player. He didn't forget how to play offense. The coach clearly put him in a role where he's not comfortable. His game isn't to be a stretch four jump shooter, and that's what he's forced to do right now.
He's still averaging a double-double. We saw how Bosh's role was minimized when LeBron went to Miami. KLove just isn't the top 10 player I thought he was. And now I'm convinced that he's such a rebound machine because he's more worried about getting a board off the shot rather than defending the guy actually shooting it.
The Heat were never benching Chris Bosh in the 4th quarter.
Love will move on, and he'll be a loser wherever he goes. Mark my words. No matter the scheme or players around him, he'll be a loser.
But this Cavalier experience definitely opened my eyes. I mean, he's definitely still a really good player. He didn't forget how to play offense. The coach clearly put him in a role where he's not comfortable. His game isn't to be a stretch four jump shooter, and that's what he's forced to do right now.
He's still averaging a double-double. We saw how Bosh's role was minimized when LeBron went to Miami. KLove just isn't the top 10 player I thought he was. And now I'm convinced that he's such a rebound machine because he's more worried about getting a board off the shot rather than defending the guy actually shooting it.
Davis is at least sniffing the playoffs this year. The closest Love ever came to making the playoffs was 9 games. New Orleans is also 4 games above .500. Closest Love ever got to .500 was 40-42. Davis will be in the playoffs next year or at the very worst contending for a playoff spot. Kevin Love's teams come this point of the year never even had a prayer.
But Love can still be a really good player in this league and help lead a team to the playoffs if he's surrounded by the right parts imo.
He's averaging 17/10 with 2 threes a game on .360 3P shooting
Per 100 possessions
+7.2 w/ Love on floor
+0.7 w/o Love on floor
So for all the shit he gets, he still provides a rare combo of rebounding/shooting and the team still DOES A LOT BETTER WITH HIM ON THE FLOOR.
Is it too early to call the Jrue Holiday to the Pelicans draft day trade even more of a disaster than we thought on draft night of 2013?
Anthony Davis & Nerlens Noel... neither one is a center, but I wouldn't care.
Beast