But I love the way the rotation is set up. I think having the veteran going against the Nats in game one is pretty cool. Gotta feel nerves will be high, the Nats will be trying to impress in front of their home crowd with expectations through the roof. Having the wily veteran throwing his 2 seamer could use all of that to his advantage. PLUS you got Harvey and deGrom in the Nats series PLUS you have deGrom and Harvey opening the first two games at home. Works for me.
But I don't see a thing wrong with it. From a marketing standpoint, it makes ZERO sense not to do that. And honestly it feels like they are throwing us a bone anyway. If they really want to cash in, they would have Gee pitch the home opener, and then slot deGrom in game two, and Harvey in game three and sell out all three games. At least they are opening the series with deGrom(which they really don't have to do.)
If there are no postponed games, the weekend series against the Yankees would have 2-3-4 in our rotation. By setting up the rotation this way that means you have deGrom-Harvey-Niese going against the Yankees
to get the playing time at 2b. He looked good over there yesterday
Both he and Muno have done well in camp so since Reynolds played yesterday they are giving Muno a shot today. Personally I would have played Reynolds at SS, but Terry Collins cannot let hit his love for Tejada go
Id actually prefer Reynolds keep getting reps at SS playing every day in AAA as insurance. I think Murph makes it back opening day and all this is a non-issue.
that they didn't want Harvey to get to "amped" up
by starting him on opening day.
Sandy can say whatever makes him feel better...this decision is 100% based on money and selling out a couple extra games. Harvey not getting "amped" up is just the GM-speak they are giving the media.
will be over the moon amped up regardless of when he makes his first start. We all know this is about revenue. 2013 and 2014 they drew more for opening day than games 2 and 3... combined.
Analysis: Alderson identified Reynolds and fellow prospect Danny Muno as the candidates to start at second base if Murphy opens the season on the DL. Alderson glaringly omitted Ruben Tejada, which is telling, since Alderson's opinion matters most. Still, a team insider insisted new hitting coach Kevin Long really likes what he has seen out of Tejada this spring training, so Tejada is not disqualified from being a candidate. If it comes down to Reynolds or Muno as a starter in Murphy's absence, the Mets are likely to keep Reynolds. The insider added that if it were Reynolds versus Muno for a bench spot with Tejada as the second-base starter, the club prefers the backup role go to Muno, with Reynolds at Triple-A Las Vegas, since they want Reynolds regularly playing somewhere.
and even Black and TdA came through the Mets minors and never played in the majors for anyone else, so if you expand your definition at all, it's mostly career Mets.
and even Black and TdA came through the Mets minors and never played in the majors for anyone else, so if you expand your definition at all, it's mostly career Mets.
Recker has been with the A's and Cubs. Black pitched for the Pirates in the bigs.
I have including TDA is his development from 18-25 happened somewhere else. I mean if Gilmartin is good for the Mets are we going to include him? I know I wouldn't.
that weren't drafted, I was just offering support to Headhunter who places more of an importance (or fondness I guess) on the homegrown players.
I like having homegrown players, mainly because it implies cost control and if the team is successful signs of a good FO, but I don't mind at all if the core is surrounded by FA's.
Like you Piazza is among my favorite Mets.
John Franco was for a while too (weird a relief pitcher is your favorite player, but some of those teams were devoid of personality - and talent).
I loved the Beltran and Johan signings, even Pedro when he was here.
Straw and Doc were my first two favorite athletes and that didn't work out so well, so as I have aged I've changed my views.
Hitters are always way ahead of pitchers. Just the way it is. I wouldn't take much out of it, though Granderson looks notably more "in control" in his ab's. TDA is the only one I'm sort of concerned about.
approach and stance and everything about them look different this year. Lagares doesn't even look like the same player.
Wright and Cuddyer just look like their normal healthy selves.
Flores just looks like he's coming into his own.
Its easy to generalize and say bats are usually ahead of pitchers but the Mets are basically leading every single offensive category in baseball this year in spring training. They are doing better than most teams.
20,000 extra fannies in the seats by not pitching Harvey on Opening Day, you wouldn't do it?
HH, I never said I had a problem with the decision. Its a good business move. I could just do without the bullshit reason that EVERYBODY sees through. Thats all.
RE: RE: If you owned the team and knew you could get
20,000 extra fannies in the seats by not pitching Harvey on Opening Day, you wouldn't do it?
HH, I never said I had a problem with the decision. Its a good business move. I could just do without the bullshit reason that EVERYBODY sees through. Thats all.
In this case they really don't have much of an option. I mean what excuse WOULD be "buyable"? There is no chance they would admit it's ticket sales.
20,000 extra fannies in the seats by not pitching Harvey on Opening Day, you wouldn't do it?
HH, I never said I had a problem with the decision. Its a good business move. I could just do without the bullshit reason that EVERYBODY sees through. Thats all.
In this case they really don't have much of an option. I mean what excuse WOULD be "buyable"? There is no chance they would admit it's ticket sales.
I understand that. I get why they are saying it. Its just, for a FO that has a history of talking out of both sides of their mouths, I'm just tired of the obvious lies. Not a huge deal...just something that bugs me that I dont experience with other teams I root for to this magnitude.
at opening day, with either DeGrom/Harvey pitching, but I think it's clear what the front-office is doing here and I don't care for it.
I usually go to a dozen games, more when the team is better, and was planning on doing the same again this year. These sorts of tactics lead me to buy last minute tickets on stubhub, rather than buy tickets through the Mets.
isn't going to make the team (unless it's something nutty like 3rd catcher or Recker gets hurt). Recker has too much experience with the staff for Monell's hot spring to overtake that.
* The Mets really do want left-hander Brian Matusz, but they're not picking up all $3.2 million of his contract. The Orioles would have to eat some salary.
I'll have a good time
at opening day, with either DeGrom/Harvey pitching
But I don't get why everyone gets so worked up about whether
this is a ploy by the front office for more ticket sales.
An argument can be made that DeGrom has earned the start.
I'll have a good time
at opening day, with either DeGrom/Harvey pitching
But I don't get why everyone gets so worked up about whether
this is a ploy by the front office for more ticket sales.
An argument can be made that DeGrom has earned the start.
I don't see anyone getting worked up about this. I think its just a turnoff when you are faced with cheap tactics and blatant lies. All for the hefty price of paying the highest ticket prices in MLB. Like I mentioned, I don't see other teams act like this to the degree that the Mets do. No biggie...still enjoy the games.
The Orioles have Verrett from the Rule V draft .Just pick up the whole contract. And let them keep Verrett without him having to be on the 25 man
Can they do that? Technically the Mets would be trading a player they don't control.
I prefer the Mets pick up the salary instead of trading a better player like Ynoa or someone like that.
In lieu of offering him back to the Mets as would be required if he is not on the 25 man roster the Orioles can agree to trade someone else (or cash) to the Mets in exchange for Verrett so Baltimore could send him down to AAA
The Orioles have Verrett from the Rule V draft .Just pick up the whole contract. And let them keep Verrett without him having to be on the 25 man
Can they do that? Technically the Mets would be trading a player they don't control.
I prefer the Mets pick up the salary instead of trading a better player like Ynoa or someone like that.
In lieu of offering him back to the Mets as would be required if he is not on the 25 man roster the Orioles can agree to trade someone else (or cash) to the Mets in exchange for Verrett so Baltimore could send him down to AAA
Right, but how would the trade be structured? Matusz to the Mets for cash considerations? or could they say "the rights to Logan Verrett". Maybe minor point, but I don't think I've ever seen a trade this way.
Maybe Matusz for "a potential player to be named later if the O's remove Verrett from their major league roster".
acquisition in Cuddyer has been hitting so well to begin his Mets tenure. it has been so long since that has happened I almost expected him to start off really slow. Let's hope he carries it over to the start of the season.
one more thought: Whoever had the idea to hire Long deserves a big bonus.
went to rehab for weed. He's really a moron though as he's already behind the 8 ball given his age and then giving away 40% of a season? Bad enough as it is in a system with some 2b depth.
Judging how Collins had TDA actually hitting behind Flores yesterday
I don't like TDA in the 8th hole but somebody's got to do it. Kind of worried his aggressive approach might hurt him in the 8 hole with pitchers pitching around him but I think he's smart enough to adjust in time.
Im so used to the Mets having streaky hitters too over the last 10-15 years. Before if Wright went cold, it would be almost impossible to score runs. Now 2-3 guys can be completely in the shitter for stretches( you know it will happen) and we won't skip a beat. I think that, more than any reason at all, is why I'd rather have 8 solid hitters then a really strong middle(2-3 guys).
Baseball is a game of streaks. Cant change it. All these guys will have their slumps this year.
Joel Sherman
#Rangers released vet LHR Joe Beimel. Was atrocious this spring But track record of success v LHs. Wonder if #Mets would give minor lge look
to be a bunch of these types of players available soon. Even if Sandy want's Matusz, I think its smart to hold out for two more weeks to see what shakes loose.
Jared Diamond ✔ @jareddiamond
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Not sure about you guys, but I'm starting to think the Mets should consider dipping into their hitting depth to trade for some pitching.
it's Spring Training...but the Mets are one of the top teams in Spring Training this year and have the second highest positive run differential in the entire league.
Again, I know it's only spring training but that's the type of positive trend I'd like to continue to see!
is back to being available. He was pretty good last year. Rangers just cut him.
Beimel is 38 years old in 3 weeks and has had arguably the worst spring of any pitcher in all of baseball 3 innings 13 hits 2 walks 11 ER (3 homers allowed)
To 2 innings as being a ridiculously small sample?? 3 innings is fine though? ;)
He was ridiculously effective last year in a very tough division. He was one of the best Loogys in baseball last year period.
#1 you said Huchingson was so good in the playoffs. I didn't make the claim. I said 2 innings was an insanely small sample size to say he was good
#2 He wasn't "ridiculously effective". He had a 4.18 FIP and didn't miss any bats. You kept stressing how Cotts was injury prone.. Biemel didn't even appear in a game for 3 years. He's more than likely finished. The Rangers dumped him without even having a second lefty. They are trying to trade for one. They are paying Biemel 167,000 to walk away. That's how bad he looked.
luck relying on any 38 year old who struck out 25 in 45 innings in his "good" season and walked nearly 3/9. Disaster waiting to happen. In fact, he was so great he didn't even have a team until 3/6.... a non-guaranteed deal. Why was he still available on 3/6 if he was "so good" last year? It's because he wasn't and he sucks.
First of all I was pretty much yanking your chain.
Second of all you seriously don't see the analogy between you telling me 2 innings was a small sample to call somebody good(I agreed) and me telling you 3 is too small a sample for you to tell me his bad.
Third. Overall FIP?? Seriously? We are talking about a LOOGY. How did he do against LEFT-HANDERS. Ill tell you. Better than Cotts. A guy who you pined for all offseason who has reverse splits btw.
Geez. I only brought him up as somebody who may be interesting on like a minor league deal. In no way shape or form do I think Joe Beimel is the savior. lol.
First of all I was pretty much yanking your chain.
Second of all you seriously don't see the analogy between you telling me 2 innings was a small sample to call somebody good(I agreed) and me telling you 3 is too small a sample for you to tell me his bad.
Third. Overall FIP?? Seriously? We are talking about a LOOGY. How did he do against LEFT-HANDERS. Ill tell you. Better than Cotts. A guy who you pined for all offseason who has reverse splits btw.
Geez. I only brought him up as somebody who may be interesting on like a minor league deal. In no way shape or form do I think Joe Beimel is the savior. lol.
1. he was ATROCIOUS so yes 3 innings for a guy soon to be 38 is worth noting. He wasn't "iffy" if Matt Harvey's first 3 innings included 13 hits 2 walks 11 ER (3 homers allowed) it would be sheer pandemonium. If Familia or Mejia did that odds are their roster spot would be in question.
2. He was available 2 weeks ago for a reason, he signed a non-guaranteed deal for a reason, and the Rangers are letting him go (despite no other 2nd lefty) for 167,000 for a reason. Clearly they disagree with you.
3. I'm not sure if you are purposely being obtuse or not but this is now the second time I have explained to you that Cotts career numbers are silly to cite as he got hurt and didn't appear in the bigs from age 29 until 33. The past 2 seasons Cotts has appeared in 131 games (aka not "injury prone" as you keep mentioning) with a sparkling 2.93 FIP, 9.3 K/9.
Lefties hit Cotts for a sweet .204 clip in 2013, 2014 they hit him better but his overall line was would still make him one of the best relievers in the Mets pen 3.58 FIP, 8.5 K/9. Excuse for for pointing out an actual good reliever that the Mets could have afforded that they passed on. I guess actual turds are the only ones worth mentioning on here?
curious why Neal Cotts got 3 million in January while Beimel had to settle for a non-guaranteed deal in March. Seems strange if they are equal options don't you think?
RE: And personally I don't give a shit how old he is.
did the Rangers release him so quickly? They openly are looking for another lefty. Strange don't you think?
"The Rangers have talked to Miami about lefty relief pitching and will continue to scour the market, but is prepared to go with right-hander Shawn Tolleson as a secondary option against left-handed hitters.
Im not going to focus on what we dont have, Banister said. Im going to focus on what we have here and how we can attack left-handed hitters.
Beimel could not attack lefties well in his 17-day audition. He was completely defenseless against right-handers. Lefties were 3-for-6 while right-handed hitters went 10-for-16 (.625)."
First of all I was pretty much yanking your chain.
Second of all you seriously don't see the analogy between you telling me 2 innings was a small sample to call somebody good(I agreed) and me telling you 3 is too small a sample for you to tell me his bad.
Third. Overall FIP?? Seriously? We are talking about a LOOGY. How did he do against LEFT-HANDERS. Ill tell you. Better than Cotts. A guy who you pined for all offseason who has reverse splits btw.
Geez. I only brought him up as somebody who may be interesting on like a minor league deal. In no way shape or form do I think Joe Beimel is the savior. lol.
1. he was ATROCIOUS so yes 3 innings for a guy soon to be 38 is worth noting. He wasn't "iffy" if Matt Harvey's first 3 innings included 13 hits 2 walks 11 ER (3 homers allowed) it would be sheer pandemonium. If Familia or Mejia did that odds are their roster spot would be in question.
2. He was available 2 weeks ago for a reason, he signed a non-guaranteed deal for a reason, and the Rangers are letting him go (despite no other 2nd lefty) for 167,000 for a reason. Clearly they disagree with you.
3. I'm not sure if you are purposely being obtuse or not but this is now the second time I have explained to you that Cotts career numbers are silly to cite as he got hurt and didn't appear in the bigs from age 29 until 33. The past 2 seasons Cotts has appeared in 131 games (aka not "injury prone" as you keep mentioning) with a sparkling 2.93 FIP, 9.3 K/9.
Lefties hit Cotts for a sweet .204 clip in 2013, 2014 they hit him better but his overall line was would still make him one of the best relievers in the Mets pen 3.58 FIP, 8.5 K/9. Excuse for for pointing out an actual good reliever that the Mets could have afforded that they passed on. I guess actual turds are the only ones worth mentioning on here?
Lol.
1.) Yes he was bad in three innings. Still doesn't change the fact that he was good against lefties last year as a LOOGY for the WHOLE season and we are talking about a minor league deal here.
2.) He was available two weeks ago like Coke and a million other LOOGYS.
3.) Find where I am saying Cotts is injury prone once again? Huh? I haven't mentioned him being injury prone at all except one time a while back because he was for a while. Nice job going back to 2013 to prove your point. Beimel was better than Cotts last year against Lefties. Period. Thats my only point. Personally, I don't like either of them. And if my choices are Cotts for 3 million or Beimel for nothing yes I might think about. Personally, II think they both suck.
you are seriously making this a Beimel debate? Lol. Like Im campaigning for the great Joe Bemiel now?? get out of here. I could give two shits about Beimel. lol
Beimel was thought to be a likely target as somebody that was going to be released long before his bad three innings. The Rangers were almost never expected to keep him unless he WOWed them.
isn't good either but he's probably better than anyone the Mets currently have and yeah the fact he's "only" 32 leads one to believe he can bounce back more than a 38 year old. In fact, considering his spring numbers (5 innings 2 hits 5 k's 0 runs) I'd suggest you would be raving about how good he's looked if he were with the Mets.
Beimel was thought to be a likely target as somebody that was going to be released long before his bad three innings. The Rangers were almost never expected to keep him unless he WOWed them.
They weren't likely to keep him? Since when? They were hoping to pair him with Claudio and currently claim they won't even have a second lefty (yes have spoken to the Marlins about both Dunn and Hand). They wanted Beimel to be their second lefty. it didn't work out. They didn't give away 167,000 for 2 weeks just "for fun".
I roll with Gilmartin and don't look back. He's got some nice control and some nice offerings. I don't think we can really carry two lefties early in the season anyway so the rest go to AAA and we see how they do.
Most of these guys released are going to be junk(might be interested in them on minor league deals) but maybe a Freidrich or somebody like that becomes available. Most of these vets aren't worth taking up a spot that could go to Alvarez or Gilmartin though.
And Matusz isn't that great either. Sorry. Not for 3 million + prospects.
Beimel was thought to be a likely target as somebody that was going to be released long before his bad three innings. The Rangers were almost never expected to keep him unless he WOWed them.
They weren't likely to keep him? Since when? They were hoping to pair him with Claudio and currently claim they won't even have a second lefty (yes have spoken to the Marlins about both Dunn and Hand). They wanted Beimel to be their second lefty. it didn't work out. They didn't give away 167,000 for 2 weeks just "for fun".
Ive read for weeks now Beimel was a possible release candidate when teams were trimming down to 25. He was signed weeks ago? Oh wow. 167,000? Just about every player invited to camp on a minor league deal will make at least that if they get called up for even one game.
Could give two shits about Joe Beimel. It started off messing with you, and yeah he was pretty good against lefties last year so maybe an intriguing minor league option I was pointing out but to make a whole debate about this is asinine. Nobody needs to convince me that joe Beimel is some great player. lol. Goodnight!
bad spring training innings either. lol That's hilariously bad. Comical. Still three innings though. Maybe his dog died and he's having a rough week. lol
I guess it's a great sign the Mets have taken a huge step forward when all we can debate is the 25th man/loogy on the roster. No matter who opens the season as the pens lone lefty - he's going to be bottom of the barrel. If given the choice between a real good righty or a crappy lefty - I'd rather no lefties in the pen personally.
There is the potential for major friction this season between Terry Collins and Sandy Alderson, writes columnist John Harper (Daily News, Mar. 24).
According to Harper, Collins has been more vocal than usual this spring, either expressing frustration with the roster (left-handed relievers), disagreeing with Alderson or not being on the same page with his front office, such as seeming unaware of elbow issues (Zack Wheeler), potential surgeries (Josh Edgin) and demotions (Noah Syndegraard).
is, wouldn't the Mets have to be pretty bad for Collins to be fired in-season? I mean even those of you who are really optimistic are saying 84-85 wins, so if they are on track to be .500 or 1-2 games over are they really pulling the plug on Collins in-season? I find that very hard to believe.
I'd advise Collins to back off. He has not become Joe Torre in NY. Most Met fans I know are at best ambivalent about Collins and most don't like him. Winning will not save him
fire Collins last offseason after having losing seasons every year that he was manager? The Mets don't owe Collins anything. He's been paid a nice salary and he wasn't exactly in demand by other teams. Amazes me that he's running his mouth to the org this spring.
Now that we've decided to roll with Collins, I agree with Dan that it's hard to see him getting fired in-season unless things go horribly bad.
I think there are a handful of reasons Collins didn't get fired
1. Money - they didn't want to spend more of it. They certainly didn't want to spend as much of it as the Cubs spent on Maddon considering that turned out to be more than their entire offseason budget
2. Control - Sandy is not a huge believer in the manager being a critical piece of the team, and he wasn't looking to give someone more autonomy with the roster than whatever Collins has (which isn't very much). Even a more outspoken type like Backman would takeaway some element of control just by virtue of personality.
3. Loyalty - it seemed like a nice idea to give Collins one more chance since he's never truly had a roster with a chance to compete.
Regardless, i'm not a huge believer in managers making a big difference, but the "outspoken" version of Terry Collins is the primary reason I don't like him. The vibe I've always gotten from his quotes is the exact opposite of a "no excuses" mentality. The players do seem to play reasonably hard for him though, so hopefully it all works out. If they don't have a better start to season than they've had the last few years I believe he will get canned before Memorial Day.
Been saying this for a year now about Sandy and Collins. It seems Collins has backed off the Flores stuff majorly so maybe he's finally getting it but I have a feeling Terry is going to piss Sandy off in some other manner before long.
For sure Eric. The Mets have one of the most expensive front offices in baseball though. If they felt a manager was the right fit, I'm betting they would spend. As we know, Sandy really didn't want Collins back. We heard all offseason the front office was split, they dragged his re-signing on for weeks. Now we know the players saved his job. That's actually pretty telling that the players think that highly of him. I guess that's his one big selling point.
What is his ceiling? It seems obvious if he stays healthy that he is at minimum a middle of the rotation somewhat better than 500 starter.
Does he have the stuff combined with the command to be really special in the same way we think of our top 3 or 4 (you know who I am talking about) pitching prospects?
RE: Can anyone give their opinion on what Terry Collins actually brings
to the team? I don't look at him as some upper-level strategist, and this isn't a team that has a lot of egos to manage.
On a day-to-day basis, it appears that he's good at talking to players and making sure they are ready to play reach day. A lot of teams go completely into the tank after falling a little bit below .500, and to Collins' credit, the Mets havnt.
On the other hand, I think he's a poor in-game strategist, particularly regarding bullpen usage, and he also is biased toward certain players and plays favorites despite either results or the larger picture dictating a different course. Regarding the latter, it looks like Sandy is willing to step in when necessary, so this might not be too big of a deal.
What is his ceiling? It seems obvious if he stays healthy that he is at minimum a middle of the rotation somewhat better than 500 starter.
Does he have the stuff combined with the command to be really special in the same way we think of our top 3 or 4 (you know who I am talking about) pitching prospects?
Ceiling is yet to be determined. Personally I have very few pitchers I consider "1's" but deGrom looks pretty special. I'd actually take him over Syndergaard or Wheeler (even healthy Wheeler). I wouldn't be blown away if deGrom ends up a top 20-30 starter in all of baseball. I'd say his health/durability will be a major thing to note. I'd argue deGrom is closer to Harvey 2.0 than Thor is deGrom 2.0. I think odds are Thor is 3rd out of that trio.
For sure Eric. The Mets have one of the most expensive front offices in baseball though. If they felt a manager was the right fit, I'm betting they would spend. As we know, Sandy really didn't want Collins back. We heard all offseason the front office was split, they dragged his re-signing on for weeks. Now we know the players saved his job. That's actually pretty telling that the players think that highly of him. I guess that's his one big selling point.
Joe Maddon would have been a PERFECT fit. He's all about the analytics. Price 100% came into play there. I have 0 doubt
What is his ceiling? It seems obvious if he stays healthy that he is at minimum a middle of the rotation somewhat better than 500 starter.
Does he have the stuff combined with the command to be really special in the same way we think of our top 3 or 4 (you know who I am talking about) pitching prospects?
DeGrom's ceiling IMO is a guy who will get Cy Young votes. His stuff is legitimately nasty and he has 3-4 pitches that he throws at a plus level. Combine that with good control, and you have the makings of an elite starter.
The question mark about him is that he has a very short track record of bigtime minor league success, and outpitched his minors results in MLB. It's a lot to ask him to just pick up where he left off last year and expecting some regression isn't unreasonable.
He's one of the most interesting guys to watch on the team this year. By the time we get to mid-May, we're going to have a lot of valuable information on both Harvey and DeGrom.
I guess any reservations I had were based on following the Official Sites list of top prospects over the years and although DG was always on it, it was usually at the double digit level and always the commentary sounded like he might just eventually squeak into the Majors.
I guess any reservations I had were based on following the Official Sites list of top prospects over the years and although DG was always on it, it was usually at the double digit level and always the commentary sounded like he might just eventually squeak into the Majors.
That's what everyone here thought too until he got his chance to pitch. He was something of an afterthought and they were even talking about him as a bullpen arm. What he's done has come as a surprise to plenty.
remember deGrom had very little pitching experience before being drafted (his college coach flat out told him he wasn't a pro caliber player as a SS) and then he had TJ surgery and lost time there as well. Biggest difference is the changeup which went from a standard change (and not very good) to a pitch that was 12th best in baseball last year. He also changed his slider grip which only happened last year.
For sure Eric. The Mets have one of the most expensive front offices in baseball though. If they felt a manager was the right fit, I'm betting they would spend. As we know, Sandy really didn't want Collins back. We heard all offseason the front office was split, they dragged his re-signing on for weeks. Now we know the players saved his job. That's actually pretty telling that the players think that highly of him. I guess that's his one big selling point.
Joe Maddon would have been a PERFECT fit. He's all about the analytics. Price 100% came into play there. I have 0 doubt
I disagree. Maddon became available AFTER they committed and re-signed Collins. I feel like once they committed to Collins that was it. Now if Maddon was available beforehand and Sandy and the organization had decided not to re-sign Collins?? I absolutely feel Maddon would have been explored. Circumstances and timing had more to do with it then finances IMO.
they are really worried about "just committing" to Collins as a reason to pass on maybe the best manager in baseball yet are already upset with him on 3/24 then the FO is full of morons. The Mets were never paying a manager 25 million. They have routinely been one of the cheapest teams in baseball with managers even dating back to Omar. Manuel and Randolph were paid below what other managers around the league were.
There is ZERO percent chance the Mets said," We really don't want Collins back and would Really like Maddon, but Oh shucks, we can't afford him." ZERO.
the average MLB manager made 1.3 million, Randolph was pulling in 700K. 2014 the league average manager made 1 million. Collins made... 1 million.
"This trend is largely because of the 2012 Major League Baseball Agreement. The MLB Basic Agreement is the basic rule book for Major League Baseball. It covers everything from uniform regulations to salary requirements. The minimum salary requirement for any player is $500,000. The average salary of MLB managers is believed to be $1,000,000. However, the Basic Agreement does not specifically state how much teams are required to pay their coaching staff."
"Terry Collins, who is going to make $1,000,000 in 2014, has led the New York Mets since 2011. He began his professional career as a shortstop in the Pittsburgh Pirates' minor league system; however he never managed to find a spot on the major league roster. Following a ten year run in the minors, he pursued jobs as a Triple-A manager for various teams before being promoted to the Bullpen coach of the Pirates. Prior to being with the Mets he spent two short terms in the late nineties as the manager of the Houston Astros and the then Anaheim Angels. Collins has an all time record of 653/674. In 2013, his Mets went 74/88."
There is ZERO percent chance the Mets said," We really don't want Collins back and would Really like Maddon, but Oh shucks, we can't afford him." ZERO.
So you believe the Mets were going to shell out 26 million for a manager? 1 for Collins and 25 for Maddon? Okay then.
"Look, we take a lot of things into account," Alderson said. "I think the first and foremost is: Does any pitcher deserve to pitch in a game of that sort? And I think that was the primary focus. You're assuming people are more interested in seeing Harvey pitch than Jacob. That's probably true, but not something that I would acknowledge."
As for selling extra tickets for Day 2 being a secondary consideration, Alderson said: "There are lots of secondary considerations."
They mentally already made the decision as an organization to commit to Collins for 2015., brought him in, explained their expectations, and agreed to a contract. I'm no Collins fan, but they probably feel for 2015 he brought enough to the table to commit to him( the players love him, familiarity, ect) . Maddon became available to late. One thing we know about Sandy, he is not rash, doesn't make sudden changes.
"Maddon, whose departure from the Rays last week rocked the baseball world, has agreed to terms to manage the Cubs, two industry sources confirmed. Maddon is expected to rank near the top of Major League Baseballs managerial salary structure. The Angels have Mike Scioscia signed through 2018 on a contract that tops out at $6 million annually, and the Yankees are paying Joe Girardi $4 million per season through 2017."
Suddenly the Mets are spending this kind of money on a manager? lol
willing to wager you are the only person on this site that believes Fred Wilpon was okaying a 25 million dollar contract for a manager + 1 million to dump Collins. Maddon is also extremely outspoken and opinionated, another reason Sandy would likely pass.
I can literally dig up 100 from Sandy saying finances aren't influencing the team anymore from THIS offseason. If they really wanted Maddon they could afford him. The reality is they didn't. They decided on Collins for 2015, right or wrong.
I can literally dig up 100 from Sandy saying finances aren't influencing the team anymore from THIS offseason. If they really wanted Maddon they could afford him. The reality is they didn't. They decided on Collins for 2015, right or wrong.
Wait. You are claiming Sandy Alderson did not have budget limitations this off-season? Please tell me I'm reading this wrong.
willing to wager you are the only person on this site that believes Fred Wilpon was okaying a 25 million dollar contract for a manager + 1 million to dump Collins. Maddon is also extremely outspoken and opinionated, another reason Sandy would likely pass.
Now that could be a real factor. But if Sandy went to Fred and said " this is the guy, Terry sucks.... We need Maddon". I absolutely believe Fred would sign off. And stop with the 25 million bullshit. He isn't making 25 million dollars in 2015
I'd wager a lot of money people within baseball knew Maddon was avail
at the time the Mets committed to Collins. Within the network of agents, club execs, etc. that kind of stuff is never a surprise. Many may have even suspected months before that it was a possibility. If the Mets had any interest whatsoever they would have been involved, but I agree with Dan, they have ZERO appetite to spend that kind of cash on a manager.
Difference then being constrained. I guess your not following what I am saying. If Sandy wanted Maddon 100 percent and had already fired terry, he would be able to do so no question. Now you yourself are saying there may have been other factors.
Take a BBI poll between 5-6 people since you can't prove shit. Lol. Have fun.
who is saying "prove" anything. You routinely claim the Mets will spend and that "Madoff is over" yet they never do. Your claim is always that Sandy chooses not to. 1. Sandy routinely had a large payroll with superstars in Oakland until the team was sold
2. Who in the WORLD would spend below average amounts of money? Money might not guarantee anything but every GM in baseball would spend more money if given the opportunity.
please again make the case to me why they shouldn't have gone after Andrew Miller, who ultimately got 36M and was clearly open to playing in this city in an undefined role (not necessarily as a closer). Even if they had to dump Parnell's 4M, how is that not a no-brainer? Miller is almost a year younger, a lefty, his WAR last year was better than Parnell's best season, plus a dominant postseason. Sure he could totally implode, but not even a phone call to his agent.
And you know damn well I've explained my point about Madoff a Million times. Our pockets aren't bottomless yet but things are better and continually improving. You want to act like a jackass I'll play though.
you are talking about "no limitations". IF Sandy Alderson wanted to raise the payroll an additional 15-20 million this off-season "no limitations" implies he could have. Yes or no?
Every reference lists the Mets 2014 payroll as 89 million...
I can literally dig up 100 from Sandy saying finances aren't influencing the team anymore from THIS offseason. If they really wanted Maddon they could afford him. The reality is they didn't. They decided on Collins for 2015, right or wrong.
So Sandy Alderson has CHOSEN to spend a bottom 3rd payroll in baseball. That is your claim correct? You said it right there.
The Associated Press released its final tally of team payrolls for the 2014 season and the Mets ranked exactly where you thought they would. The Mets finished with a $92.9 million payroll the 10th lowest in the sport. It was also the Mets' lowest payroll in more than a decade, according to the AP. In 2000, they had an $82.2 million payroll. In 2001, it was $93.1 million. Only the Marlins, at $52.5 million, had a lower payroll in the National League East. The Phillies had the third-highest payroll in baseball, at $183.5 million, yet went onto another lost season. The Associated Press obtained the payroll numbers after Major League Baseball made its final calculations.
I think you are quoting the Mets 25 man roster when you bring up 84. Payroll includes the 40 man roster. Cots for some reason has opening day payrolls at 25, year end at 40 which is confusing.
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@NYPost_Mets
Mets interest in Orioles lefty Matusz hasn't gone beyond scouting stage. Source called "incorrect" that players and $$$ have been discussed.
Matusz is having a great spring so far. 10.1 innings 7 hits 0 walks 10 k's (as a starter)
arbitration is, almost by definition, paying for the same production as previous seasons. Losing seasons. Contract escalators are nothing more than creative accounting. Eliminate those 2 factors as standard cost of doing business raises and where does that leave us?
Answer - Cuddyer's salary, which more or less equals what we accounted towards CY and Ike on opening day last year. Don't care about any other numbers, they don't show any change in operations or management investment.
Mets were at 82 million dollars after departing with Ike(something they were planning on doing all offseason.)
Even if 82 is correct - thought it doesn't seem to be, but for the sake of argument we'll go with it - the payroll went up 12 million to 94, which equals 15% increase, not 20%
Pins and needles. I was at a lunch meeting. Thank you Shecky for answering honestly. So let's see, we have ZGiants 1 DMM zero. I guess Dan was wrong again.
Btw Rubin 100 percent had the payroll for the Mets at 85.6 at the start of 2014(before the Ike trade which brought us down to 82) and he has that same exact comparison/payroll at 100.6 million now. I'll be happy to provide links when I get back to the office.
Here's another article that estimates 2015 payroll to be a shade under 97 million, as of late January. However, it also indicates a 2014 opening day payroll of 89 million. So there's that...
Quote:
The team payroll on Opening Day 2014 was just over $89 million. It's at around $96.7 million at the moment for 2015, by best estimates
Payroll at 85.9 before the Ike trade. Bring up whatever links you want, nobody is more familiar with the payroll then Rubin except the front office itself. Link - ( New Window )
C'mon now, you cannot be serious. Sandy can spend whatever he wants to spend? Right, and Jason Bay will lead the Mets to the promised land.
Come on dude. Read the thread. The topic at hand isn't that the Mets can spend unlimitedly like drunkin sailers, the topic is if they identified Maddon as their number one choice, decided against Terry, if they can afford his 5 million. The answer is yes, they could.
Opening day payroll in 2014 was 85, and opening day payroll for 2015 is 96. or if you want to add the 4.5, then opening day payroll in 2014 was 89, and opening day is around 100.
Rubin added that 4.5 million both years. And I'm sorry but the objective absolutely was to find a taker for Ike and they did at the start of the season. I can't count Ike's contract towards the 2014 payroll but even if you wanted to count Ike 85.9 to 100.6 or whatever is still close to 20 percent.
Even if these numbers were accurate (which they are not, more on that below) can you please explain why it matters that the payroll increased due to arbitration raises? That's a serious question because to me, citing a raise in payroll as an argument is trying to tout an increase in resources towards winning. How does paying Dan Murphy a fairer amount given his past performance in any way a sign of an increased investment in the team? IMO it's a disingenuous argument because they are basically just trying to take credit for a cost of doing business raise. They chose the contracted raises they negotiated with Wright/Granderson/etc.
Now as far as why those numbers aren't accurate. 1 of them is counting an estimated "season long contingency", 1 of them is not. That's a 10M+ swing, and obviously the bulk of the % change. The article below has their 2014 final payroll at 92.9M and Adam Rubin's article 1 month ago had their OD payroll at 100.7M, counting 4.5M towards contingency vs. any costs that they would incur between now and the final payroll tabulation.
Rubin added that 4.5 million both years. And I'm sorry but the objective absolutely was to find a taker for Ike and they did at the start of the season. I can't count Ike's contract towards the 2014 payroll but even if you wanted to count Ike 85.9 to 100.6 or whatever is still close to 20 percent.
Not true. This link has all player salaries for 2014. Add it up, it equals approx 85. ie, there is NO 4.5 added in. And yes, you absolutely need count Ike.
Again, it needs to be apples to apples. Snapshot needs to be the same - opening day salary in 2014, and 2015.
So you believe the Mets are so broke they couldn't afford 5 million dollars if they identified Maddon as "the guy" because they are broke even though they took out expensive frivolous insurance policies on Gee, Parnell, and Tejada ( all cheaper possibly even better in house options)??? OK!
Payroll figures from wherever you like. I really don't care. I showed you who the biggest Mets writer in the know configured his math on the 25 man roster both years which clearly shows a 20% difference. That's where I got it from. Case closed.
Payroll figures from wherever you like. I really don't care. I showed you who the biggest Mets writer in the know configured his math on the 25 man roster both years which clearly shows a 20% difference. That's where I got it from. Case closed.
In other words, you only want to use your source, and no one else can use theirs (of which there are MULTIPLE), because it fits your argument.
There is nothing "clear about it. But in your mind it is "case closed".
it hasn't gone up 20%. Even if it did, I don't think dollar for dollar each year is the best way to evaluate it what ownership is investing. Take a look at how we compare to other teams.
The Mets are still not even in the top 20 in payroll despite charing some of the most expensive ticket prices in the league (which they are then forced to offer last minute discounts on). Until our payroll gets into the top 10, I don't see how someone can not think ownership is broke.
82 to 100. Especially now that we are keeping Gee.
Haha! So it's really more like 82 because you want to arbitrarily pull out Ike's salary, since it fits your narrative?
LOL...
I said without Ike from the beginning since it was Sandy's objective to trade him all along. But how about this. If we really want to make it apples to apples we'll wait until the third week of the season in which by that time it will undoubtedly be up over 20 percent in a year's time. Deal?
Payroll figures from wherever you like. I really don't care. I showed you who the biggest Mets writer in the know configured his math on the 25 man roster both years which clearly shows a 20% difference. That's where I got it from. Case closed.
In other words, you only want to use your source, and no one else can use theirs (of which there are MULTIPLE), because it fits your argument.
There is nothing "clear about it. But in your mind it is "case closed".
LMAO!!
Yup. Nobody has a better pulse of the Mets finances then Rubin. Sorry. Even Dan would agree with that.
why people are arguing over something that didn't happen (getting Maddon). And frankly who cares, they stuck with Collins and they need to win otherwise he's a goner.
You guys have fun quibbling over dollars, 19 percent compared to 22 percent. The whole original argument was if the Mets could afford's Maddons measly 5 million if they wanted him 100 percent. The answer is yes they could. If you think the Mets are so broke they couldn't good for you.
why people are arguing over something that didn't happen (getting Maddon). And frankly who cares, they stuck with Collins and they need to win otherwise he's a goner.
this doesnt change the present fact how the team is constructed. It's like we're wishing we had the BMW but instead we are driving this Honda. Could they have afforded Maddon? Who cares, they didnt get him. The mets are hitting like crazy and if they do that in the season, collins will look like a genius.
is considered an avg/below avg manager. Yet his team was one game away from winning the whole thing. It's the talent on the field. If this going to be a good team, Collins can't mess it up.
And I maintain they felt they had a complete roster after the Cuddyer signing. Outside of maybe a bullpen arm( who they clearly checked into) I don't see where we were signing players or upgrading. If we had a gaping hole somewhere, I'm betting Sandy could have filled it. Dan has always felt that whatever the payroll is, it MUST be the MAX because why wouldn't they spend more if they have it?? I disagree with that premise and feel Sandy has always stressed flexibility. I guarantee we are not at our MAX and if the right player/need came along the money would be there.
Dan wants to start polls about how nobody on the Internet would agree with me(thank you Shecky) I'm going to have to defend myself. Lol. Everyone knows me well enough by now to know I don't really back down easily. ;). Anyways, moving on hopefully.
But agree the Mets didn't want Maddon, but for more than the reason "they just committed to Collins"
So you believe Sandy Alderson can spend say 110-120 but chooses not to?
I just can't believe any Mets fans actually believe this, much less 2 people on this thread. Sandy sounds frustrated to me with his lack of ability to spend with all the jokes he makes about it to the quotes from his recent book.
I think it might have actually made Fred cry that he got so close to $100 mil this offseason, much less 110-120.
I think if money wasn't an issue then Matusz would have already been traded for.
Castro flies to Kirk on a 3-1 pitch
Lowrie smokes one off Alvarez's glove for an infield hit (on a 3-1 pitch)
Rasmus chops one to Duda, who gets the out at 2nd, Rasmus safe at 1st
Villar strikes out swinging on the sweeper
Edgin? Sure. But he wasnt coming here to replace Edgin. He got closer money to be a closer. Raise of hands of people that had closer down as a hole/essential need this offseason??
Edgin? Sure. But he wasnt coming here to replace Edgin. He got closer money to be a closer. Raise of hands of people that had closer down as a hole/essential need this offseason??
Um. Upgrade over every reliever in the bullpen. Andrew Miller is an ELITE level reliever. It's laughable you would even question adding him being an upgrade to the team. Truly laughable.
yeah Miller closing with Familia and Mejia setting up... makes the Mets better. For what would have been a lower cost than some other "upgrades". Why can the Mets only improve to "not bad"? Truly bizarre a fan of a team would defend decisions to not improve a team further.
Nobody is questioning him being an upgrade over any reliever. He got paid top dollar to be a closer, period. He was being signed to be a closer and I disgree that was a huge/essential need for this team after what familia/mejia showed and Parnell coming back. Is he better than them? Yeah. But I don't know if it's a significant enough an upgrade to justify that contract. Closer wasn't a hole at the start of this offseason. Even the biggest pessimist assholes in the world wouldn't have said that.
is the true reason I don't like you. I don't care if people see me as a dick or disagree with me on things but at least I'm consistent. You on the other hand consistently LIE. You flat out questioned if Miller would be an upgrade in the pen, compared him to Familia and Mejia and questioned how good he was given his 2014 was his best season ever.
Left and right. I never once said said miller wouldn't be an upgrade to the pen you pathetic punk. Did I bring up he had little experience as a closer and that he was predominantly a LOOGY before 2014? Yes. Did I question getting into a bidding war with the Yankees for him when we already had a nice array of closer options? Yes. Nobody said miller wouldn't be an upgrade to the pen you jackass.
Don't think i haven't forgot about all the times you said Flores would NEVER be a SS. Reynolds too for that matter. I'm gracious enough to not throw it in your face but don't think I don't chuckle every time you say your on "team Flores" now. Lol
Don't think i haven't forgot about all the times you said Flores would NEVER be a SS. Reynolds too for that matter. I'm gracious enough to not throw it in your face but don't think I don't chuckle every time you say your on "team Flores" now. Lol
Absolutely bizarre to glad hand yourself on something the Mets themselves have openly questioned (and they have yet to be proven wrong!) Wowzas. Even Sandy Alderson questioned Flores at SS. Why not wait until something is actually proven. Also... where does that show I'm a liar? I question Flores being good enough to play every day SS. I'd love to be wrong. That's not called being a liar.
Dumbass fans like you automatically assume that the top closer on the market who signed for top dollar to the richest team in baseball automatically would have been a Met if we had offered him that money. Sure he would have chose the Mets. Suuuure.
Although Bobby Parnell expressed satisfaction with his health in Saturdays minor league intrasquad game as he works back from Tommy John surgery, his velocity was only 88 to 92 mph, Marc Carig writes in Newsday. Read more at MLB.com.
If that velocity doesn't bump up Bobby Parnell will not help the 2015 NY Mets let alone in 2-3 weeks time.
Matt Harvey threw curveballs and sliders Sunday for the first time since having Tommy John surgery.
He could also have another "first" later this week when he possibly faces hitters. Harvey's rehab has progressed as hoped to this point and he's expected to open the season in the Mets' rotation. General manager Sandy Alderson said recently that Harvey could throw as many as 200 innings should the Mets make the playoffs.
Source: Marc Carig on Twitter
Feb 22 - 12:55 PM"
Kristie Ackert of the New York Daily News reports that Matt Harvey (elbow) will throw three more bullpen sessions before being shut down for the season.
Harvey had declared earlier this season that he wanted to make it back before the end of the year, but as it turns out he won't even throw a pitch at full effort until spring training. ""
Mets general manager Sandy Alderson said Tuesday that Matt Harvey (elbow) might not appear in a game until spring training.
Alderson noted Jeremy Hefner having a setback recently after the Mets might have pushed him into game action a little too quickly.
Quote:
Harvey recently began throwing off a mound
and it sounds like he won't be pitching in winter ball or anywhere else prior to spring training. He should still be fine for Opening Day next season.
Source: Adam Rubin on Twitter
Tue, Aug 12, 2014 06:20:00 PM
Instead of admitting you are wrong you will scrounge up some quotes that somehow defend your ridiculous statement.
Ask his pitching coach dipshit. Link - ( New Window )
And yet he didn't even throw off a mound until August nor did he throw curves or sliders. Matt Harvey was never, ever starting a game last August. Never even 1% possible.
More than a third of major league teams have at least one prominent starting pitcher looking to return from a 2014 Tommy John surgery. And this list does not include Matt Harvey (Mets) and Jason Marquis (Reds), both of whom are full speed in spring training after 2013 Tommy John surgeries.
Pitcher TJ date Team Expected return
Tyler Skaggs 8/13/14 LAA 2016
Tyler Chatwood 7/23/14 COL July/August
Bronson Arroyo 7/15/14 ARI July/August
Martin Perez 5/19/14 TEX June/July
Jose Fernandez 5/16/14 MIA June/July
A.J. Griffin 4/30/14 OAK June
Ivan Nova 4/29/14 NYY June/July
Josh Johnson 4/24/14 SD May/June
Matt Moore 4/22/14 TB June
Patrick Corbin 3/25/14 ARI June
Jarrod Parker 3/24/14 OAK June
Brandon Beachy 3/21/14 LAD June/July
Kris Medlen 3/18/14 KC June/July
Notice how NONE return in 10 months as you are suggesting Harvey would have. Not a single one.
"But probably just as importantly, its unrealistic to think that all or even most of the 20 major league pitchers who had Tommy John surgery early last season will return to action with no troubles this season. In recent years, the path back to the majors has been more troublesome and the timetable longer than might have been expected.
Rewinding the calendar to look at big league pitchers who had Tommy John surgery from February-May of 2013, its notable just how few of them actually provided significant help to big league teams last season. Gavin Floyd returned from May 2013 surgery to throw nine solid starts last season and Eric OFlaherty (May 21, 2013 surgery) was reasonably effective in 20 innings late last year with the As."
is absolutely zero recent precedent for a SP to return and be successful from TJ in 10 months time. Not one. In fact they are finding most guys aren't even what they once were for 16-18 months post surgery.
The entire organization has publicly disagreed with you. Sucks to be you. Plenty of pitchers have made it back in 11-12 months btw.
PS for those who didn't click on hsi link Warthen said he thought Harvey could have pitched the end of last season, no mention of August.
Really? Please name the starters who have come back in 11-12 months (This would have been 10 months post surgery, harvey had surgery in October, August is 10 months later) Please name the SP who have come back in 10 months from TJ thanks!
I think I have a 99% participation rate for Mets threads over the past 8 months or so I feel confident in saying neither Dan nor ZG are liars. On occasion Dan's a stickler for minutia and a little anti-homerish while ZG is on the complete opposite end where everything is gumdrops and roses. You're both valuable participants in these threads, though I do think ZG could stand to less frequently bring up past arguments.
Don't call you out on 100 percent of the bullshit you spew daily. I try to get along just fine. It isnt until you attack me and use dirty tactics I start to point out your idiocy.
RE: Just caught up on the last 2 hrs of this thread & it didn't disappoint
I think I have a 99% participation rate for Mets threads over the past 8 months or so I feel confident in saying neither Dan nor ZG are liars. On occasion Dan's a stickler for minutia and a little anti-homerish while ZG is on the complete opposite end where everything is gumdrops and roses. You're both valuable participants in these threads, though I do think ZG could stand to less frequently bring up past arguments.
Check out the thread. Every time I adress one Dan attack he tries to twist it to another if he feels himself losing or if it's at least a standstill. He's the master of changing the argument. Look at where it started to where it ended.
certainly skew pessimistic but you are ONLY pollyannaish. The ONLY negatives are with ex-Players or guys who there is absolutely ZERO argument the guy sucks. I at least give credit where credit is due.
argued you "won" an argument where your opinion was Sandy decided not to spend money but could. You also absolutely claimed Miller would not represent much of an upgrade given how good the Mets pen is. I explained you quite nicely in fact that the Mets pen was 25th last year in terms of fWAR, you said Steamer hates the Mets, I again explained (politely) that the rankings I referred to were the Mets ACTUAL 2014 rankings, not projections or opinions. You just ignored that.
On the team that don't suck or are likely big contributors. Shocker. Yup. Guess I'm a Pollyanna lol
Wait... literally 100% of the Mets fans on this site would agree you are over the top optimistic. Some may "like it" but you are ONLY positive about every single aspect of the team. The way you talk about the Mets lack of holes they should win 95 games this season.
argued you "won" an argument where your opinion was Sandy decided not to spend money but could. You also absolutely claimed Miller would not represent much of an upgrade given how good the Mets pen is. I explained you quite nicely in fact that the Mets pen was 25th last year in terms of fWAR, you said Steamer hates the Mets, I again explained (politely) that the rankings I referred to were the Mets ACTUAL 2014 rankings, not projections or opinions. You just ignored that.
None of what you said has anything to do with Niller not being an upgrade over Gilmartin. Lol. What a fucking idiot to make that leap.
argued you "won" an argument where your opinion was Sandy decided not to spend money but could. You also absolutely claimed Miller would not represent much of an upgrade given how good the Mets pen is. I explained you quite nicely in fact that the Mets pen was 25th last year in terms of fWAR, you said Steamer hates the Mets, I again explained (politely) that the rankings I referred to were the Mets ACTUAL 2014 rankings, not projections or opinions. You just ignored that.
None of what you said has anything to do with Niller not being an upgrade over Gilmartin. Lol. What a fucking idiot to make that leap.
Gilmartin wasn't even here when Eric advocated the Mets going for Miller. Being scared of a bidding war with the Yankees is an embarrassment (especially if Sandy really can spend whatever he chooses). Not a single fan should take solace in "well I wouldn't bid against the Yankees" as a valid excuse for not TRYING for a player.
On the team that don't suck or are likely big contributors. Shocker. Yup. Guess I'm a Pollyanna lol
Wait... literally 100% of the Mets fans on this site would agree you are over the top optimistic. Some may "like it" but you are ONLY positive about every single aspect of the team. The way you talk about the Mets lack of holes they should win 95 games this season.
Sounds kind of like 100 percent of the Mets fans on this site would agree Sandy couldn't afford Maddon? Lol. Riiiight. I certainly am optimistic but I'm realistic about the Mets and most of their players as well. And more of my predictions have come true then not. The whole basis of my optimism was the mets being good around this year/target. I guess I was wrong though...
RE: Just caught up on the last 2 hrs of this thread & it didn't disappoint
I think I have a 99% participation rate for Mets threads over the past 8 months or so I feel confident in saying neither Dan nor ZG are liars. On occasion Dan's a stickler for minutia and a little anti-homerish while ZG is on the complete opposite end where everything is gumdrops and roses. You're both valuable participants in these threads, though I do think ZG could stand to less frequently bring up past arguments.
which section is better: Delta Silver or Ceasars Gold?
Depends if you value being closer or seeing more of the field
Summer day game. Would assume you roast in Delta Silver but can take some pretty decent photos, where Cesars offers some shade but further back (how they announcers view the game).
And for the life of me, I cannot figure out what ZGiants is arguing about here and that's probably also the cause of Dan's head slowly exploding.
Z, is the gist of what you're getting at that you believe that the Mets do not have any financial restrictions in regards to payroll for the 2015 season?
argued you "won" an argument where your opinion was Sandy decided not to spend money but could. You also absolutely claimed Miller would not represent much of an upgrade given how good the Mets pen is. I explained you quite nicely in fact that the Mets pen was 25th last year in terms of fWAR, you said Steamer hates the Mets, I again explained (politely) that the rankings I referred to were the Mets ACTUAL 2014 rankings, not projections or opinions. You just ignored that.
None of what you said has anything to do with Niller not being an upgrade over Gilmartin. Lol. What a fucking idiot to make that leap.
Gilmartin wasn't even here when Eric advocated the Mets going for Miller. Being scared of a bidding war with the Yankees is an embarrassment (especially if Sandy really can spend whatever he chooses). Not a single fan should take solace in "well I wouldn't bid against the Yankees" as a valid excuse for not TRYING for a player.
Your too stupid to even see what I'm saying. Your saying I didn't think miller would be an upgrade over ANY reliever. So that second LOOGY if it's Gilmartin would be to what your referring to. Ok let's call him Rice then at the time of the argument. God you are a moron
does being optimistic for the season have to do with acknowledging faults/flaws? The pen has probably the worst lefty situation in baseball and overall zero margin for error (Black and Parnell with questionable health until proven otherwise), Mejia and Familia 1 good MLB season each. I say they should have added more to the pen, I back it up saying the pen (while having upside) wasn't very good last year.
Instead of a 1% chance of you acknowledging the numbers are what they are, you bring up things like the 30 total innings some turds like Farnsworth pitched. Adding a reliever or 2 isn't all that expensive, you are of the opinion that Sandy can spend what he wants, if that's the case you would really truly advocate not bringing another arm in? If Sandy can spend what he wants what does adding a 4-5-6 million dollar reliever restrict you from doing (your stated concern regarding in-season additions)?
If you think the pen has a chance to be very good.. what is the downside to adding more, adding "insurance" to this potential "very good pen"?
And for the life of me, I cannot figure out what ZGiants is arguing about here and that's probably also the cause of Dan's head slowly exploding.
Z, is the gist of what you're getting at that you believe that the Mets do not have any financial restrictions in regards to payroll for the 2015 season?
Where the hell do you get that from??? We are talking about adding 5 fucking million dollars! Was this whole thing about being too broke to add Maddon if they wanted him or not??
which section is better: Delta Silver or Ceasars Gold?
Depends if you value being closer or seeing more of the field
Summer day game. Would assume you roast in Delta Silver but can take some pretty decent photos, where Cesars offers some shade but further back (how they announcers view the game).
Like I said, really depends what you prefer. When I go to a game (assuming it's no longer cold) I prefer to be in the sun (especially early/late in the season) because it feels more "basebally" and CitiField is pretty chilly in the shade as it is. picture wise you are right, Delta Silver is probably the better bet.
And for the life of me, I cannot figure out what ZGiants is arguing about here and that's probably also the cause of Dan's head slowly exploding.
Z, is the gist of what you're getting at that you believe that the Mets do not have any financial restrictions in regards to payroll for the 2015 season?
Where the hell do you get that from??? We are talking about adding 5 fucking million dollars! Was this whole thing about being too broke to add Maddon if they wanted him or not??
ZGiants,
You flat out said "Sandy has quotes from this off-season stating we have no financial restrictions" stop trying to use Maddon as a crutch. You are allowed to have this opinion but at least stand up for it. You believe Sandy Alderson chooses to spend less money than the money he is allowed to. If Sandy wanted to spend 20 million more this past off-season he would have been free to do so... correct?
And for the life of me, I cannot figure out what ZGiants is arguing about here and that's probably also the cause of Dan's head slowly exploding.
Z, is the gist of what you're getting at that you believe that the Mets do not have any financial restrictions in regards to payroll for the 2015 season?
Where the hell do you get that from??? We are talking about adding 5 fucking million dollars! Was this whole thing about being too broke to add Maddon if they wanted him or not??
ZGiants,
You flat out said "Sandy has quotes from this off-season stating we have no financial restrictions" stop trying to use Maddon as a crutch. You are allowed to have this opinion but at least stand up for it. You believe Sandy Alderson chooses to spend less money than the money he is allowed to. If Sandy wanted to spend 20 million more this past off-season he would have been free to do so... correct?
You see this why you are such a fucking little bitch. I have ALREADY clarified this for you numerous times. You ask for clarification constantly and I constantly give it to you. You know EXACTLY where I stand on this yet you play dumb to give yourself a crutch in a side argument.
I'm completely unsure what your original argument was that has now been debated for 150 posts. Can you please clarify?
Go back to the beginning of the argument. This was strictly about Maddon. Dan said there was no way we could sign him because of finances even if he was our number one target and we fired Collins. I disagreed and said we could. The end.
Sandy wanted to... what do you believe he would have been allowed to spend this off-season? Please state an actual number.
Ive already done this a million times. You continually think the Mets are at their max and you are continually wrong. You swore we couldn't sign a Cuddyer until we traded a Murphy or a Colon. WRONG. Sandy says we have some flexibility and I believe him. Im pretty sure they are comfortable with the payroll where its at actually. There aren't any glaring holes to fill either though. Im pretty sure there is a 10-15 million dollar cushion. There certainly is 5 million for Maddon if the Mets thought he was the game changer you believe.
Basically in a nutshell I thought If the Mets had already parted with Collins when Madden was available, and if Sandy targeted Maddon as "the guy"(in other words he REALLY wanted him) The Wilpons had the 5 million available.
Dan says no. He think s that when Maddon was available, the entire front office was in hysterics crying in their offices about Maddon because they wanted him so bad if only they could afford him.
really trying to understand you. Didn't you flat out say Sandy could spend more but chooses not to? You claim he doesn't want to "spend every penny he can" (which suggests you do agree there are payroll limitation) but you also cite him saying the financial limitations are gone. So which is it?
and completely over the top optimistic are two different things. I certainly have been optimistic about these Mets for a couple years now. That is no secret. I saw this young talent coming for quite some time. Over the top optimistic insinuates I am reaching outside the realm of reality however. It might have seemed like that at the time to people who thought the despair would never end but 99% of what I predicted is now coming into fruition. I picked us to win 77 games last year. I have us at 87 this year. Thats not OVER THE TOP optimism. Over the top would be thinking Dillon Gee is going to win the Cy Young award. I actually know most of you guys will disagree with this but if you remove yourselves from the BBI bubble, I was getting crucified for thinking last year we would be much better in 2015 when Harvey returned (unicorn lover I think I was called) How quickly in a year the opinions have changed.
they aren't much better. They may end up being "much better" but at this point they are a 79 win team (last years total) with some optimism for the season. You say things like you expected 20+ homers from 6 guys, how the bullpen is excellent, how the rotation is "2nd best" in baseball (our previous nationals discussion), how each and every guy who had a bad year last year will bounce back and none will regress. You want to give credit for things that haven't even happened yet. Wilmer proving to be an asset at SS, Monell being a "great" find, the team being "much" better.
really trying to understand you. Didn't you flat out say Sandy could spend more but chooses not to? You claim he doesn't want to "spend every penny he can" (which suggests you do agree there are payroll limitation) but you also cite him saying the financial limitations are gone. So which is it?
Again. I have literally broke this down for you in practically essay format numerically going through point by point. Maybe you were dropped on your head and have legit memory issues. It wasn't that long ago and Ive done it MANY times. If you do, that would explain a lot and I take back most of what I have said.
For the last time. Things are better in Mets land. Do they have an unlimited payroll? NO. Can they start spending like drunkin sailers?? NO. Are they at a point to where they have a little flexibility? YES. Do they have a buffer if the perfect player/fit/need were available?? YES. That doesn't mean they have no constraints. Of course they still do. Until we start filling the seats again and winning that is going to be an issue. 5 Million for Maddon is well within that buffer if he was the PERFECT fit for this organization and the entire front office green lighted him.
...on any subject in the history of the site. It's Good to be positive but you are at the extreme end of the spectrum imo.
Back it up then. Im sure Ive been wrong about a couple things here and there(how could you not with so many players and factors) but who was I SOOOO optimistic about that has failed miserably?
really trying to understand you. Didn't you flat out say Sandy could spend more but chooses not to? You claim he doesn't want to "spend every penny he can" (which suggests you do agree there are payroll limitation) but you also cite him saying the financial limitations are gone. So which is it?
Again. I have literally broke this down for you in practically essay format numerically going through point by point. Maybe you were dropped on your head and have legit memory issues. It wasn't that long ago and Ive done it MANY times. If you do, that would explain a lot and I take back most of what I have said.
For the last time. Things are better in Mets land. Do they have an unlimited payroll? NO. Can they start spending like drunkin sailers?? NO. Are they at a point to where they have a little flexibility? YES. Do they have a buffer if the perfect player/fit/need were available?? YES. That doesn't mean they have no constraints. Of course they still do. Until we start filling the seats again and winning that is going to be an issue. 5 Million for Maddon is well within that buffer if he was the PERFECT fit for this organization and the entire front office green lighted him.
I'll ignore the personal attacks and insults because I'm more interested in... so they can't spend whatever they want. No "spending like drunken sailors"
Can Sandy spend 10 million more than he has? 20 million more? 30 million? In your mind how much more is Sandy "allowed" to spend? I'm honestly curious.
they aren't much better. They may end up being "much better" but at this point they are a 79 win team (last years total) with some optimism for the season. You say things like you expected 20+ homers from 6 guys, how the bullpen is excellent, how the rotation is "2nd best" in baseball (our previous nationals discussion), how each and every guy who had a bad year last year will bounce back and none will regress. You want to give credit for things that haven't even happened yet. Wilmer proving to be an asset at SS, Monell being a "great" find, the team being "much" better.
I would consider a 10 win difference(off my projections) as considerable improvement. Especially since the majority of this team is still young and improving. In fact the youth is the only thing holding this team back and we can't do anything about that. They will mature naturally. If we don't make a single addition in 2016 my prediction will be 90+ opposed to 85-90 in 2015.
RE: I don't think the Mets were paying more than a couple million tops...
...for any manager. And that is the top of their range imo. Maybe we'll find out after Collins gets canned if we pursue Gardenhire.
Again. We aren't talking about philosophies on what managers are worth. Dan said if we WANTED him and deemed he was worth that salary, the Wilpons would have said no because they were broke.
also resort to name calling with the quickness. It's very strange for someone I believe to be a grown man. If you are a kid I take that back.
We are the exact same age, and as always ,you start with the Morons, ect. long before it escalates.
I really wasn't trying to be funny with the grown man stuff. Scouts honor. Just no idea how old some people on here are.
We actually had this discussion before one night years back. Im pretty sure you, me, and Arc are the same age. All around 34/35. My memory is usually REALLY good ;) but I could be off a little.
they aren't much better. They may end up being "much better" but at this point they are a 79 win team (last years total) with some optimism for the season. You say things like you expected 20+ homers from 6 guys, how the bullpen is excellent, how the rotation is "2nd best" in baseball (our previous nationals discussion), how each and every guy who had a bad year last year will bounce back and none will regress. You want to give credit for things that haven't even happened yet. Wilmer proving to be an asset at SS, Monell being a "great" find, the team being "much" better.
I would consider a 10 win difference(off my projections) as considerable improvement. Especially since the majority of this team is still young and improving. In fact the youth is the only thing holding this team back and we can't do anything about that. They will mature naturally. If we don't make a single addition in 2016 my prediction will be 90+ opposed to 85-90 in 2015.
Again, not being snarky... I meant they aren't much better unless they actually win more games. They aren't on 3/24 any "better" (nor are the other teams in baseball). If they win 10 more games than 2014 then they clearly were much better, if they win even 6-7 more games then they were much better. Right now it's hope, optimism but they aren't currently "much better".
I'll be 34 the end of July, I think Arc is a little younger, Kmed was around the same age too, Mook I think is a little younger as well. Once in a while someone on here will say "I've been a Giants fan for 64 years" and I'm like "woah he's I envisioned him in his 40's"
The language you use to describe things is over the top optimistic
Both players and the team as a whole ("top bullpen" for example, you said something to that affect at one point). Your general predictions in terms of numbers are usually fair, and don't normally cause arguments (win predictions, estimated stat predictions, the arguments pop up when you qualify something as "top" or "best" or act like there aren't any valid concerns or criticisms of the team. Injury risk, defense, bullpen and so on. Defending the payroll is something which you have to understand is simply just a sore subject and a cut and dry issue. Again, I go back to the football analogy, it's no different than wanting the Giants to sign someone like McCourtney or Jets/Revis. Imagine the outcry there would be if there wasn't a salary cap and the Giants were in the bottom 1/3 of the league.
Obviously not calling you out, just responding to your ask.
You act as if the Mets as an organization have one bank account with one amount in it ear marked for payroll salary. That isn't how it works. Its not as basic as me saying the Mets have 7.2 million left over exactly.
I do believe things are better and they have some flexibility. If I HAD to take a stab at it(and of course I don't know the real number) I would say a 10-15 million dollar buffer is fair for the absolutely right player/perfect fit addition. Everything Sandy has said has pointed to this.
Where the hell were we getting 200 million for Cano from?? Come on.
I'll be 34 the end of July, I think Arc is a little younger, Kmed was around the same age too, Mook I think is a little younger as well. Once in a while someone on here will say "I've been a Giants fan for 64 years" and I'm like "woah he's I envisioned him in his 40's"
I just turned 34.
RE: The language you use to describe things is over the top optimistic
Both players and the team as a whole ("top bullpen" for example, you said something to that affect at one point). Your general predictions in terms of numbers are usually fair, and don't normally cause arguments (win predictions, estimated stat predictions, the arguments pop up when you qualify something as "top" or "best" or act like there aren't any valid concerns or criticisms of the team. Injury risk, defense, bullpen and so on. Defending the payroll is something which you have to understand is simply just a sore subject and a cut and dry issue. Again, I go back to the football analogy, it's no different than wanting the Giants to sign someone like McCourtney or Jets/Revis. Imagine the outcry there would be if there wasn't a salary cap and the Giants were in the bottom 1/3 of the league.
Obviously not calling you out, just responding to your ask.
Right but this a perfect example of everyone thinking its ridiculous at the time but everyone forgetting about it in a year after I'm proven right. Dan said If the Mets bullpen was in the top 12/13 he would concede he was wrong. Im betting it is. In fact I'd have them right around 12/13 actually.
they aren't much better. They may end up being "much better" but at this point they are a 79 win team (last years total) with some optimism for the season. You say things like you expected 20+ homers from 6 guys, how the bullpen is excellent, how the rotation is "2nd best" in baseball (our previous nationals discussion), how each and every guy who had a bad year last year will bounce back and none will regress. You want to give credit for things that haven't even happened yet. Wilmer proving to be an asset at SS, Monell being a "great" find, the team being "much" better.
I would consider a 10 win difference(off my projections) as considerable improvement. Especially since the majority of this team is still young and improving. In fact the youth is the only thing holding this team back and we can't do anything about that. They will mature naturally. If we don't make a single addition in 2016 my prediction will be 90+ opposed to 85-90 in 2015.
Again, not being snarky... I meant they aren't much better unless they actually win more games. They aren't on 3/24 any "better" (nor are the other teams in baseball). If they win 10 more games than 2014 then they clearly were much better, if they win even 6-7 more games then they were much better. Right now it's hope, optimism but they aren't currently "much better".
Obviously we are basing our optimism off of perceived expectations.
this thread really turned into the aborted fetus of
Best post in this thread. I literally just laughed out loud. I really hope this team wins this year and we can all look back at these threads for the entertainment value they truly hold.
if the Mets pen is 12/13 then a move for Miller (or Duke, or whomever) would still look like a missed opportunity. You are of the opinion the pen is going to be REALLY good (I'm not debating this opinion either way) but simply being averagish shouldn't be enough in a spot where you can spend little for big gains. The goal should be a PLUS bullpen not "better" or "about average".
RE: this thread really turned into the aborted fetus of
I really am not the type to hold people to prior statements, ect. It only comes out once in a while in these ugly battles with Dan or maybe Phi. If we are winning and I am right, I absolutely want to share that with everyone here. We've all been through hell with this team and we all deserve this young exciting team. You won't find me gloating although Im sure Ill feel the wrath of many if the Mets are bad this year. lol. Thats fine. Ive been bold enough to put myself out there and go against the grain for quite some time now. I deserve it if Im wrong.
if the Mets pen is 12/13 then a move for Miller (or Duke, or whomever) would still look like a missed opportunity. You are of the opinion the pen is going to be REALLY good (I'm not debating this opinion either way) but simply being averagish shouldn't be enough in a spot where you can spend little for big gains. The goal should be a PLUS bullpen not "better" or "about average".
Meh. Again though. The pen expectations is riding on the natural improvement of our youth. Thats hard to predict. Just because Familia might only improve x, doesn't mean we should be out scouring for improvements on him. Much of the roster is in the same boat. We are depending on the youth in almost all areas of the team. Its not like this is some old team on its downside that you should absolutely add whatever piece you can now. This is the start of MANY years of winning. Some of the talent isn't even here yet.
with Flores performing as well he is, the bullpen is literally the only area we can even discuss. We are literally set at every other position. That's incredible. There's plenty of talent in the pen and a whole season to go. The pen will evolve further as it did last year. Who knows what a Montero could add? i see no reason to spend top dollar on a closer in a bidding war when we have the candidates we do. If all 10 of them are failing in June, then make a desperation move and get somebody.
Black coming off a a "meh" season, average Torres, "ok" Josh Edgin, Parnell coming off TJ. It's not as if the Mets had 4 "proven good" relievers. I'm not even sure who would rank 1st in terms of "proven", I guess Parnell coming off of TJ.
Black coming off a a "meh" season, average Torres, "ok" Josh Edgin, Parnell coming off TJ. It's not as if the Mets had 4 "proven good" relievers. I'm not even sure who would rank 1st in terms of "proven", I guess Parnell coming off of TJ.
That's a good question. If I had to pick 1 reliever I trust most going into this season it's probably Familia. But I agree it's hugely worrisome to not have any proven commodities. We all know how inflated the prices get on high end relivers via trade, like Miller last year.
Black coming off a a "meh" season, average Torres, "ok" Josh Edgin, Parnell coming off TJ. It's not as if the Mets had 4 "proven good" relievers. I'm not even sure who would rank 1st in terms of "proven", I guess Parnell coming off of TJ.
Well Edgin looked pretty damn good and LOOGYS are a dime of dozen so I definitely had him down. Mejia and Familia were down. We disagree on Black but I had him as a lock. After we picked up Parnell I knew he was a lock at some point( at least for a spot) I knew we would have a long reliever and were covered there by Gee/Montero/ect. Torres has been an everything man has held value for that alone. So which spot was I looking for? I always maintained a better LOOGY but the pen is pretty full. Still have interesting arms in AAA and still have the wherewithal to make a trade later.
entire point on "betting on youth" is exactly why bringing in 1-2 "proven" relievers makes even more sense. Relying on the unproven when you are trying to compete is a potential disaster. Nobody is suggesting turd veterans like Farnsworth but
Miller, Duke, Cotts, Robertson, Chamberlain, Gregerson, Romo, K-Rod, Neshek, Grilli, Hochevar, Janssen were all available (and that's not the entire list of solid arms). So if the pen falters the Mets can only blame themselves.
Its very likely we still start trading off pieces like Colon, ect. to open up spots for Syndergaard, ect. I think its pretty clear talent or a reliever could be coming back in those deals if we go that route at some point.
entire point on "betting on youth" is exactly why bringing in 1-2 "proven" relievers makes even more sense. Relying on the unproven when you are trying to compete is a potential disaster. Nobody is suggesting turd veterans like Farnsworth but
Miller, Duke, Cotts, Robertson, Chamberlain, Gregerson, Romo, K-Rod, Neshek, Grilli, Hochevar, Janssen were all available (and that's not the entire list of solid arms). So if the pen falters the Mets can only blame themselves.
I guess Ive already seen enough of the youth(granted small sample) to know they will be good enough though. Its not like we are just throwing 7 unknowns in the pen and saying go get em kids! Most have all experienced some level of success at the majors with only more upside. I don't see it as a dire need yet for sure. Id rather roll with Mejia/Familia types and have them grow at the big league level then sign a couple vets and have Mejia and Familia in AAA for insurance. That doesn't make much sense to me.
nobody is suggesting Mejia or Familia be bumped. The Mets will likely open the season with Torres, Carlyle and potentially Thornton along with awful lefties. Yes Parnell should be back (any TJ is a major ?? till otherwise proven) and yeah maybe Black will be fine. But there absolutely is/was room at the inn for another solid arm or 2. Torres and Black specifically have options so God forbid they have "too much" you send one down.
I really am not the type to hold people to prior statements, ect. It only comes out once in a while in these ugly battles with Dan or maybe Phi. If we are winning and I am right, I absolutely want to share that with everyone here. We've all been through hell with this team and we all deserve this young exciting team. You won't find me gloating although Im sure Ill feel the wrath of many if the Mets are bad this year. lol. Thats fine. Ive been bold enough to put myself out there and go against the grain for quite some time now. I deserve it if Im wrong.
"you won't fine me gloating", yet in a prior post you bragged that 99% of what you predicted is coming to fruition.
I really am not the type to hold people to prior statements, ect. It only comes out once in a while in these ugly battles with Dan or maybe Phi. If we are winning and I am right, I absolutely want to share that with everyone here. We've all been through hell with this team and we all deserve this young exciting team. You won't find me gloating although Im sure Ill feel the wrath of many if the Mets are bad this year. lol. Thats fine. Ive been bold enough to put myself out there and go against the grain for quite some time now. I deserve it if Im wrong.
"you won't fine me gloating", yet in a prior post you bragged that 99% of what you predicted is coming to fruition.
LOL...
I was referring to many of the things we bitched about in years past(mostly involving the Mets turning it around and being good again). It was a general comment. I was only saying Im not going to make it miserable for individual people and go after them over every little thing. We all have opinions. Its all good.
Adam Rubin @AdamRubinESPN 1m1 minute ago
Source told me recently. Now looks semi-official: Mets' lo-A affiliate--Savannah Sand Gnats--ceasing operations 10/1, moving to Columbia, SC
I hate the park itself, and the stupid TV feed might be the worst possible thing I have ever seen in my life BUT...
The fact that its a big hitters park I would imagine would be good for the hitters in a number of ways. If players are struggling at the MLB and head down to AAA for a short stint(they are likely to regain their confidence and get back in a groove there (see TDA, Flores, MDD last year) It might give guys like Nimmo, Herrera, and Plawecki confidence as well which is good for kids that young.
As for the pitching. I know many will disagree with this. Many of these fireballers are used to getting by on their stuff. Yeah it sucks watching Syndergaard, Harvey, ect get beat up there but wouldn't that force them to focus on there offspeed pitches and other offerings? It may end up forcing them to get better.
Who knows? Of course you could look at it the other way too.
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As for the pitching. I know many will disagree with this. Many of these fireballers are used to getting by on their stuff. Yeah it sucks watching Syndergaard, Harvey, ect get beat up there but wouldn't that force them to focus on there offspeed pitches and other offerings? It may end up forcing them to get better. .
In theory, it makes sense. In reality the PCL is the worst possible league to fine tune your off speed pitches. Altitude sucks for learning to move your ball.
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As for the pitching. I know many will disagree with this. Many of these fireballers are used to getting by on their stuff. Yeah it sucks watching Syndergaard, Harvey, ect get beat up there but wouldn't that force them to focus on there offspeed pitches and other offerings? It may end up forcing them to get better. .
In theory, it makes sense. In reality the PCL is the worst possible league to fine tune your off speed pitches. Altitude sucks for learning to move your ball.
I guess your right. Im just thinking a hard slider will still slide in short distances and a changeup is still a changeup. Im thinking the fastballs get hit harder and go further than anywhere else by far. Good point though.
today, but Reynolds continues to look good at SS. Lots of range, strong arm. I thought Alvarez looked pretty good again. Gee was working on stuff early but was pretty nasty in his later innings. Not much offense except for Cuddyer and Wright. Just a few things that stuck out.
In Manhattan, Zack Wheeler is due to undergo Tommy John surgery Wednesday. In addition to replacing the fully torn ulnar collateral ligament, team doctor David Altchek will remove a calcium buildup and repair a damaged tendon in the right elbow. The additional repair work should not impact Wheelers recovery time. He hopes to be back in the majors about June 1, 2016.
Will he come back like Matt Harvey? or will he come back
In Manhattan, Zack Wheeler is due to undergo Tommy John surgery Wednesday. In addition to replacing the fully torn ulnar collateral ligament, team doctor David Altchek will remove a calcium buildup and repair a damaged tendon in the right elbow. The additional repair work should not impact Wheelers recovery time. He hopes to be back in the majors about June 1, 2016.
Who did Harvey's tommy john? Was it someone like Andrews or did he use the Mets' team doctor, Altchek? Do we know who Hefner used?
RE: I think he can come back strong. TJ seems quite routine these days
Harvey seems like he's borderline obsessive with wanting to be considered great. He'd probably try to come back if he was missing a leg.
"Thanks in part to Jon Roegeles excellent Tommy John surgery database, Baseball America looked at every major league pitcher (defined as a pitcher with 20-plus innings pitched in the year of or year before his elbow injury) who had Tommy John surgery from 2009-May 2013 and how he fared after surgery.
The takeaways? If youre a fringy reliever, Tommy John surgery is very bad for your career prognosis.
But probably just as importantly, its unrealistic to think that all or even most of the 20 major league pitchers who had Tommy John surgery early last season will return to action with no troubles this season. In recent years, the path back to the majors has been more troublesome and the timetable longer than might have been expected.
Rewinding the calendar to look at big league pitchers who had Tommy John surgery from February-May of 2013, its notable just how few of them actually provided significant help to big league teams last season. Gavin Floyd returned from May 2013 surgery to throw nine solid starts last season and Eric OFlaherty (May 21, 2013 surgery) was reasonably effective in 20 innings late last year with the As.
But those are the only real success stories. Of the eight big league pitchers who had Tommy John early enough in 2013 to be thought of as capable of helping teams in 2014, those were the only two who actually proved to be productive big league pitchers last season."
I think the Mets would have to be happy with 2-3 months of Wheeler working his way back to normalcy in 2016 and a "full" 2017 season. Given Harvey's timeline (and the fact Wheeler is having more work done) gotta assume the Mets are extra cautious. No setbacks probably see Wheeler at some point in July. Fingers crossed.
In Manhattan, Zack Wheeler is due to undergo Tommy John surgery Wednesday. In addition to replacing the fully torn ulnar collateral ligament, team doctor David Altchek will remove a calcium buildup and repair a damaged tendon in the right elbow. The additional repair work should not impact Wheelers recovery time. He hopes to be back in the majors about June 1, 2016.
Who did Harvey's tommy john? Was it someone like Andrews or did he use the Mets' team doctor, Altchek? Do we know who Hefner used?
Harvey used Andrews. The Mets allow the pitchers to pick their surgeon. All kidding about the Mets doctors aside, Altcheck is extremely well thought of.
used Andrews as well. I don't think the surgeon has much to do with the recovery considering there are 3-4 guys who basically "do everyone" and are respected high level surgeons.
He is still going to be a HUGE part of our future. The guy's arm has been bothering him since high school. He's had messed up tendons and build-up in there for who knows how long. He's going to come back feeling like a million bucks. In the meantime this gives us a perfect opportunity to work Syndergaard and Matz in towards the end of 2015. It's all good.
RE: RE: I think he can come back strong. TJ seems quite routine these days
Harvey seems like he's borderline obsessive with wanting to be considered great. He'd probably try to come back if he was missing a leg.
Very damning article/study saying TJ is FAR less successful than people realize. (Not in reference to Harvey who looks beast) but in general.
Do they have names of players who struggled or failed to come back, reinjured the elbow, or is this including the litany of no-namers who never make it to the majors.
Recently it seems like a lot of successes - Strasburg, Harvey looks good so far, Lackey was revitalized, Wainwright, maybe more.
I'd let Alcheck operate on any one of my family members. He has improved on the methods of Dr. Frank Jobe's original TJ surgery. Jobe is very high in Altcheck. Altcheck's surgery causes much less trauma
this becomes todays debate. I wasn't suggesting Wheeler won't come back strong. Just that odds are he's not a real asset to the Mets until the 2017 season given this most recent study. It's possible he ends up being a late season boost to the Mets next season but I'm sure even the Mets are looking at him as a "bonus" for next year.
I'd let Alcheck operate on any one of my family members. He has improved on the methods of Dr. Frank Jobe's original TJ surgery. Jobe is very high in Altcheck. Altcheck's surgery causes much less trauma
He's considered one of the best sports doctors in the world. Other teams send their players to him.
RE: RE: RE: I think he can come back strong. TJ seems quite routine these days
Harvey seems like he's borderline obsessive with wanting to be considered great. He'd probably try to come back if he was missing a leg.
Very damning article/study saying TJ is FAR less successful than people realize. (Not in reference to Harvey who looks beast) but in general.
Do they have names of players who struggled or failed to come back, reinjured the elbow, or is this including the litany of no-namers who never make it to the majors.
Recently it seems like a lot of successes - Strasburg, Harvey looks good so far, Lackey was revitalized, Wainwright, maybe more.
PJ,
The study looked at EVERY pitcher who underwent TJ.
Quote:
Thanks in part to Jon Roegeles excellent Tommy John surgery database, Baseball America looked at every major league pitcher (defined as a pitcher with 20-plus innings pitched in the year of or year before his elbow injury) who had Tommy John surgery from 2009-May 2013 and how he fared after surgery.
Heres a look major league pitchers who had Tommy John surgery in 2012 and how many MLB innings they have thrown since
Pitcher MLB IP Since TJ
Charlie Morton 273
Drew Hutchison 185
Mike Pelfrey 176
Danny Duffy 174
Josh Tomlin 106
Scott Baker 96
Joakim Soria 68
Brian Wilson 62
Joe Beimel 45
Neftali Feliz 35
Brandon Beachy 30
Randy Wolff 26
Felipe Paulino 18
Blake Wood 7
Luis Perez 5
Kyle Drabek 5
Juan Oviedo 0
Todd Coffey 0
Daniel Hudson 0
David Herndon 0
Marcos Mateo 0
Cory Luebke 0
George Sherrill 0
Ryan Madson 0
Joey Devine 0
Jose Ceda 0
Sergio Escalona 0
Relievers Jonny Venters and Joel Hanrahan have both needed additional Tommy John surgeries without ever getting back on a big league mound. Starter Chad Billingsley is also looking at a rehab that has stretched into a second season and is trying to come back with the Phillies.
Astros righthander Alex White made 20 starts with the Rockies in 2012 before his elbow injury. He spent all of last year in Triple-A. Cardinals righthander Jason Motte lost his closer job when he had Tommy John surgery, but he also lost his effectiveness in his mid-2014 return. Compared to his three seasons before surgery, Mottes ERA jumped, his walk and hit rate skyrocketed and his strikeout rate cratered in his 25 innings with St. Louis last season.
The results for big league pitchers with 2012 elbow surgeries are better, but not by much. For relievers who were not pitching in prominent roles before their injuries, a year off often is enough to provide the difference between earning big league paychecks and ending up on the outside looking in.
Among relievers with 2012 surgeries, Luis Perez, Jose Ceda, David Herndon, Sergio Escalona, Marcos Mateo, George Sherrill, Blake Wood and Joey Devine all lost their grip on big league jobs because of their elbow. Escalona, Devine, Ceda, Sherrill and Herndon have pitched very little at all in the minors or majors in the two years since their surgeries.
And for every 2012 TJ success story such as Mike Pelfrey, Joakim Soria or Danny Duffy, theres Ryan Madson, who has thrown one minor league inning since his April 2012 surgery. Cory Luebke hasnt thrown an official pitch since his May 2012 surgeryand hes had another Tommy John surgery since. Daniel Hudson also is part of the two-time TJ crowd, and Felipe Paulino went from being a serviceable starter in 2011 to someone whos managed to thrown 18 ineffective big league innings and 48 minor league innings since.
Of the 34 big league pitchers to have Tommy John surgery from January 2012-May 2013, 15 (44 percent) have thrown 20 innings in the big leagues since their surgery. Look at pitchers who had surgery in 2012, and so have had now two full seasons since their surgeryjust 12 of 27 (44 percent) have logged even 20 big league innings in the two seasons since their surgery. Eleven of them (40 percent) have yet to throw a big league pitch post-surgery. And only 12 of those 27 are on 40-man rosters during spring training this year.
Looking at 73 pitchers (20 or more innings pitched in MLB the year of or year before their surgery) who had Tommy John surgery from the start of 2009 to mid-2013, 62 percent have thrown 20 or more big league innings since their injury and 19 (26 percent) have yet to throw another big league pitch.
There are plenty of success stories, obviously, and Venters, Billingsley, Hanrahan, Hudson and many others all are working to prove that their big league returns are just delayed, not destroyed.
But when looking at the large wave of pitchers rehabbing from 2014 Tommy John surgeries, if history is any indication, not all of them will be returning to their pre-injury form, especially this year.
this becomes todays debate. I wasn't suggesting Wheeler won't come back strong. Just that odds are he's not a real asset to the Mets until the 2017 season given this most recent study. It's possible he ends up being a late season boost to the Mets next season but I'm sure even the Mets are looking at him as a "bonus" for next year.
That's fine. I wasn't even responding to your sentiment. It was a general feeling I have about Wheeler of my own. And while I agree it would be stupid to pencil Wheeler into the rotation for 2016, my gut tells me he will be a huge part of the 2016 season. While not as outwardly obvious, I feel Wheeler has much of the same fire and competitiveness Harvey has and will come back stronger.
Out of the 8 or 9 contenders for the starting rotation it was unlikely all of them contributed in a meaningful way this season. Gee and Montero get more of an opportunity right now and Matz/Thor may have an earlier chance to come up for their debuts. Hard to imagine the combo of the 4 will be that much of a step backwards considering Gee alone has had better seasons than Wheeler.
Maybe midseason they have slightly less depth to dip into for a major trade (which didn't look all that likely anyway). Maybe they end up holding on to Gee or Colon for the entire season. And maybe in the offseason they don't have the appetite for a major trade involving pitching, but they haven't shown that appetite yet anyway. At this point in the rebuild if things don't go well the only appetite they will need gain quickly is spending $ (next offseason). And by then Wheeler will be close to a return.
Out of the 8 or 9 contenders for the starting rotation it was unlikely all of them contributed in a meaningful way this season. Gee and Montero get more of an opportunity right now and Matz/Thor may have an earlier chance to come up for their debuts. Hard to imagine the combo of the 4 will be that much of a step backwards considering Gee alone has had better seasons than Wheeler.
Maybe midseason they have slightly less depth to dip into for a major trade (which didn't look all that likely anyway). Maybe they end up holding on to Gee or Colon for the entire season. And maybe in the offseason they don't have the appetite for a major trade involving pitching, but they haven't shown that appetite yet anyway. At this point in the rebuild if things don't go well the only appetite they will need gain quickly is spending $ (next offseason). And by then Wheeler will be close to a return.
Really depends how much of a breakout you were expecting from Wheeler. If you merely expected roughly his 2014 (or a little better) than for the 2015 season it's not much of a loss. If you expected a big jump forward then it's a pretty major loss.
some of those guys were borderline major leaguers.
I wonder how they balance guys that fail with the successes like Wainright who was pretty close to winning a cy young post TJ, same with Strasburg, and even late-career guys like Lackey who looked like toast and then post TJ regained his form.
I know surgery/medicine isn't exact, but maybe there is a common theme somewhere that can help improve the efficacy of the procedure for everyone.
And I think that's where some of us are split. I expected at least "2nd half Wheeler" over the course of a full season which would be a nice bump forward. Not only that, another year of development and learning is crucial for a young power pitcher like Wheeler and the loss of that is almost as important as the results. Nothing we can do now though. It is what it is. I'm not throwing in the towel on Wheeler though. He'll be back.
And I think that's where some of us are split. I expected at least "2nd half Wheeler" over the course of a full season which would be a nice bump forward. Not only that, another year of development and learning is crucial for a young power pitcher like Wheeler and the loss of that is almost as important as the results. Nothing we can do now though. It is what it is. I'm not throwing in the towel on Wheeler though. He'll be back.
Sure and that's where the potential "big loss" or "not big" loss lies. For Wheeler it sucks, he losses at least 1 full season (likely closer to 1.5 given his own stated 6/1 target date) so in terms of development/experience he misses out. For the Mets, sure it's a loss either way, even in terms of one less chip to deal, one less piece of "insurance" if you expected Wheeler to be "deGrom-esque" this year then it's a bad loss for the 2015 Mets any way you slice it. If he were more on the 2014 Wheeler/Niese level, meh not a big deal for 2015.
that Wheeler might comeback as good as new and find himself without a spot in the rotation. I could see Harvey, deGrom, Niese, Thor, Matz being entrenched next season
wise to this point Wheeler has been more name than actual game (good, not anything special). Obviously he has the stuff, ability to be a lot better than that.
that Wheeler might comeback as good as new and find himself without a spot in the rotation. I could see Harvey, deGrom, Niese, Thor, Matz being entrenched next season
Well they would all need to be healthy at the same time and Niese would be a pending FA so I think things would work themselves out. I'd be pretty surprised if Jon Niese is a Met long term
that Wheeler might comeback as good as new and find himself without a spot in the rotation. I could see Harvey, deGrom, Niese, Thor, Matz being entrenched next season
I actually think that will be the opening 2016 rotation. If Wheeler proves healthy, I could see Neise being a summer 2016 trade candidate. I think they'll hang on to Neise now though as long as he proves healthy.
is a pretty good pitcher. If every pending Free Agent gets traded or allowed to walk, then all this talk about building a sustainable system to keep the Mets in contention year after year is all hogwash
but if Matz and Syndergaard are the real deal, in 2016, having them both seasoned and ready to go 200 innings PLUS Wheeler returning... that could be a World Series caliber rotation.
is a pretty good pitcher. If every pending Free Agent gets traded or allowed to walk, then all this talk about building a sustainable system to keep the Mets in contention year after year is all hogwash
I just can't see Niese being cost effective for the Mets. Assuming he pitches reasonably well a youngish lefty will get 4-5 years at 9-12 per on the open market. He's already so close to FA that an extension doesn't make much sense for him as a player. I'd be very surprised given the Mets depth in SP if they retain Jon Niese.
I actually expected Lagares to regress a little. I thought his peripherals pointed to his average coming down a little. I did think his base stealing ability would go up so it would probably even out.
I have to say, I really am no longer thinking that way. Long has me pumped. I now think Lagares has a good chance of breaking out. After saying how he worked with Lagares, and how he saw a lot of "Cano" in him, ect. and NOW visually seeing his new approach, I am cautiously pumped. We'll see.
is a pretty good pitcher. If every pending Free Agent gets traded or allowed to walk, then all this talk about building a sustainable system to keep the Mets in contention year after year is all hogwash
That's actually a perfect case scenario, not hogwash. If you build a farm that has Flores/Reynolds/Herrera ready to take over for a Murphy - that's how you sustain winning. You either move Murphy for more prospects and save money. Or retain Murphy and use the kids behind him as chips to fill the other holes in the roster.
Being forced to resign Ollie and Castillo because you have no alternative is what crushes an organization.
I actually expected Lagares to regress a little. I thought his peripherals pointed to his average coming down a little. I did think his base stealing ability would go up so it would probably even out.
I have to say, I really am no longer thinking that way. Long has me pumped. I now think Lagares has a good chance of breaking out. After saying how he worked with Lagares, and how he saw a lot of "Cano" in him, ect. and NOW visually seeing his new approach, I am cautiously pumped. We'll see.
I'm not even concerned about him improving or even a slight regression. He's worth an extension (which at this point is team friendly) even if he "only" settles in as a great #4 OF option. The glove obviously plays and ANY team should be able to afford a 5-6 million dollar "great" 4th OF (worst case scenario) and best case is he improves further and is a top 5-6 CF in baseball for below market value. 100% extend Lagares for me. At this point he'd likely be looking at something like 6 years 30.
Mets should be looking to extend Lagares. That's the one guy that really makes sense to lock up now.
Be the perfect message to send to the fans, but wonder if it will happen or not.
Would kill to have the Mets find their Yelich and lock him up in his prime for only $50mm.
Yup. Yelich is a dream scenario for a team. Big talent locked up for a team friendly deal. I'm guessing Ozuna will be next for them. Lagares and deGrom would be the 2 extension guys I would be eying for the Mets.
get Duda locked up to an extension but I doubt he'd take it. 30 homerun power bats are going to get a mountain of money on the free agent market. If he does it again in 2015 or even improves we'll probably be screwed.
would be 2 seasons from FA following 2015 so no incentive for him to sign for much of a discount (he's quietly been absolutely awful this spring, one of the few Mets). I'm not concerned at all, just under the radar awful.
Adam Rubin @AdamRubinESPN
Left-handers Duane Below and Chase Huchingson on trip to Tampa. Not saying either making Opening Day roster, but telling they're borrowed.
would be 2 seasons from FA following 2015 so no incentive for him to sign for much of a discount (he's quietly been absolutely awful this spring, one of the few Mets). I'm not concerned at all, just under the radar awful.
Duda has had 27 atbats, or basically 5-6 games worth of atbats after missing a bunch of time with an intercostal injury. Personally I think it would be worth it even if we could extend him even for one season.
would be 2 seasons from FA following 2015 so no incentive for him to sign for much of a discount (he's quietly been absolutely awful this spring, one of the few Mets). I'm not concerned at all, just under the radar awful.
Duda has had 27 atbats, or basically 5-6 games worth of atbats after missing a bunch of time with an intercostal injury. Personally I think it would be worth it even if we could extend him even for one season.
Again, it's only ST and it's early and I'm not concerned but 14 k's in 27 ab's is horrendous any way you want to slice it.
maybe try and buy two years of FA, and settle on 1.
Most of the time when you do that it's to give the player some financial security and the team cost certainty (and most extensions like this are team friendly to an extent relatively speaking).
so the player is tradeable and usually not some financial albatross in the event they don't pan out.
issue is players generally aren't amiable to "1 extra year". What's in it for Duda? If he has a big year in 2015 (which is what we are discussing) then his arb number is already high, if he hits FA he's looking at 5-6-7 years at big money. The time to get an "extra" year is when you lock up a guy after 1-2 seasons, that ship has sailed on Duda.
today, but Reynolds continues to look good at SS. Lots of range, strong arm. I thought Alvarez looked pretty good again. [b]Gee was working on stuff early [/]but was pretty nasty in his later innings. Not much offense except for Cuddyer and Wright. Just a few things that stuck out.
Lol. It's funny, apparently Gee was doing the complete opposite. He was working on working with nothing. Minimized his arsenal, working on NOT working on anything:
Dillon Gee was bothered by throwing 70 pitches through four innings Tuesday, but also acknowledged he was only using fastballs and change-ups, at the request of pitching coach Dan Warthen, he explained after the game.
We were working on seeing how good of a pitcher I could be with two pitches the first time through and not break out the other stuff, he said, noting that he may have been able to put a few guys away early with his slider, but chose not to.
maybe try and buy two years of FA, and settle on 1.
Most of the time when you do that it's to give the player some financial security and the team cost certainty (and most extensions like this are team friendly to an extent relatively speaking).
so the player is tradeable and usually not some financial albatross in the event they don't pan out.
As I noted below there is almost no chance Duda would take a "team friendly" extension at this point. He's already making 4.2 million, good year he'll likely get close to double that next year. So you are looking at offering him what to keep him from testing FA when he's so close? In a league where a 35+ Nelson Cruz gets 57 million and Pablo Sandoval gets 95, the Mets would have to pay him close to market value for it to make a lot of sense for Duda. I can't see the Mets doing that. Lagares on the other hand is Mets controlled through 2019.
issue is players generally aren't amiable to "1 extra year". What's in it for Duda? If he has a big year in 2015 (which is what we are discussing) then his arb number is already high, if he hits FA he's looking at 5-6-7 years at big money. The time to get an "extra" year is when you lock up a guy after 1-2 seasons, that ship has sailed on Duda.
I'd give him cash up front right now and work it into his 2015 salary. He isn't even getting paid yet for 2015 so technically he is on a three year deal. I agree its a long shot, but he isn't a sure thing yet either. It all rides on what he does this season. I think his agent would accept a 1-2 year extension with some money up front but it would have to be done right now. Just my take. Obviously the Mets aren't thinking this anyway.
issue is players generally aren't amiable to "1 extra year". What's in it for Duda? If he has a big year in 2015 (which is what we are discussing) then his arb number is already high, if he hits FA he's looking at 5-6-7 years at big money. The time to get an "extra" year is when you lock up a guy after 1-2 seasons, that ship has sailed on Duda.
I'd give him cash up front right now and work it into his 2015 salary. He isn't even getting paid yet for 2015 so technically he is on a three year deal. I agree its a long shot, but he isn't a sure thing yet either. It all rides on what he does this season. I think his agent would accept a 1-2 year extension with some money up front but it would have to be done right now. Just my take. Obviously the Mets aren't thinking this anyway.
Well I'm working under the assumption this would be coming after a "big" or repeat season. I'm not sure the Mets are such big believers in Duda that they lay out even 40-50 million right now.
are in fact done right before the opening of a season (see Yelich). It wont happen though.
Yeah but Yelich was many years from FA. He had major incentive to take his 50 million. That's why Lagares and deGrom should either be done "soon" ie next 12 months or likely won't happen at all.
Duda at bat against David Price where he took him deep
are in fact done right before the opening of a season (see Yelich). It wont happen though.
Yeah but Yelich was many years from FA. He had major incentive to take his 50 million. That's why Lagares and deGrom should either be done "soon" ie next 12 months or likely won't happen at all.
Interesting little trade protection rumored to be included in Yelich deal. If he gets traded, new team has to pay the difference in taxes since he would presumablybe leaving FL.
I have absolutely zero interest in Joe Beimel but curious how it's decided that Beimel not worth bringing in but Below/Huchingson worth look. Why not bringing in every single possible lefty?
are in fact done right before the opening of a season (see Yelich). It wont happen though.
Yeah but Yelich was many years from FA. He had major incentive to take his 50 million. That's why Lagares and deGrom should either be done "soon" ie next 12 months or likely won't happen at all.
Interesting little trade protection rumored to be included in Yelich deal. If he gets traded, new team has to pay the difference in taxes since he would presumablybe leaving FL.
are in fact done right before the opening of a season (see Yelich). It wont happen though.
Yeah but Yelich was many years from FA. He had major incentive to take his 50 million. That's why Lagares and deGrom should either be done "soon" ie next 12 months or likely won't happen at all.
Yeah I get that but my point was he hasn't gotten paid for 2015 yet so you can still give him a nice bump in salary for this season. Like I said, I know its a long shot. Out of everyone in this "young core" Duda is the number one player I am afraid of losing and he will likely get a MONSTER contract in three years if he keeps hitting with power. I don't see that sort of power anywhere in the system replacing him either. Oh well. Wishful thinking on my part.
maybe try and buy two years of FA, and settle on 1.
Most of the time when you do that it's to give the player some financial security and the team cost certainty (and most extensions like this are team friendly to an extent relatively speaking).
so the player is tradeable and usually not some financial albatross in the event they don't pan out.
As I noted below there is almost no chance Duda would take a "team friendly" extension at this point. He's already making 4.2 million, good year he'll likely get close to double that next year. So you are looking at offering him what to keep him from testing FA when he's so close? In a league where a 35+ Nelson Cruz gets 57 million and Pablo Sandoval gets 95, the Mets would have to pay him close to market value for it to make a lot of sense for Duda. I can't see the Mets doing that. Lagares on the other hand is Mets controlled through 2019.
Almost no chance isn't no chance and Duda is not Panda or Cruz. He's a borderline platoon player, who has a few good seasons and only one really good season.
And I'd hope the Mets FO doesn't take that approach, "he's probably not going to sign an extension so let's not try"
I'm not really sure why Duda "isn't Cruz"? Nelson Cruz last season 271 40 108, .271/.333/.525, .859 OPS and got 57 million going into his age 35 season
Duda 253 30 92 .253/.349/.481 .830 OPS
One played half his games in CitiField
I'm not saying Lucas Duda is a lock to boost his OPS 29 points but it's 100% reasonable, even likely given the ballpark changes
I dont really get where you are coming from at all. Power is at an absolute premium in MLB. Duda was third in the NL in homeruns and one of only three players to break 30. It was also his first full season, and most saw him breaking out as the year went on. He could theoretically be better in 2015.
I'm not really sure why Duda "isn't Cruz"? Nelson Cruz last season 271 40 108, .271/.333/.525, .859 OPS and got 57 million going into his age 35 season
Duda 253 30 92 .253/.349/.481 .830 OPS
One played half his games in CitiField
I'm not saying Lucas Duda is a lock to boost his OPS 29 points but it's 100% reasonable, even likely given the ballpark changes
Cruz is a 3.7 WAR player, Duda 3.2
But even if you say Duda = Cruz.
Cruz has a 14M per year 4 year deal.
Let's say you ask Duda to rip up this year, and next year and give him a 5 year 45 - 50M deal.
That's generational money. I think the Mets can get that done. It's essentially 3 years 33M - 38M, risk free - guaranteed money.
importantly my point is guys like Cruz get 57 million despite being a 1 tool asset (and being older) so the prices are very high on bats. Victor Martinez is better than Lucas Duda but he 36 years old and still got 4 years 60 million
I'm not really sure why Duda "isn't Cruz"? Nelson Cruz last season 271 40 108, .271/.333/.525, .859 OPS and got 57 million going into his age 35 season
Duda 253 30 92 .253/.349/.481 .830 OPS
One played half his games in CitiField
I'm not saying Lucas Duda is a lock to boost his OPS 29 points but it's 100% reasonable, even likely given the ballpark changes
Cruz is a 3.7 WAR player, Duda 3.2
But even if you say Duda = Cruz.
Cruz has a 14M per year 4 year deal.
Let's say you ask Duda to rip up this year, and next year and give him a 5 year 45 - 50M deal.
That's generational money. I think the Mets can get that done. It's essentially 3 years 33M - 38M, risk free - guaranteed money.
Yeah but 5 years buys up more than the 1 year extension being suggested. Would Duda take 2 extra years tacked on to what he currently has? Sure. But next year when he's making 7-8 million and is 1 year from FA suddenly that doesn't look very appealing.
to be clear, Nelson Cruz has done it longer than Duda so that's part of his appeal. This is all assuming Duda has a repeat or better season. He's not a FA right now, his value is obviously based on how he performs but he's getting paid very, very nicely as a FA if 2014 is anything like the "real" Duda.
after this year Duda will have earned 7M in his career.
He's an injury away from that being it and poor play the next two seasons away from that being league min or slightly above the rest of the way. I'm sure there are as many Chris Shelton's out there who wish they were extended after their flash in the pan success vs those guys who improved materially post-30.
Let's not pretend Duda has some great pedigree. He's had one really good year.
That's the allure of signing a deal even, team friendly for someone like Duda just a couple years from FA.
What's best case? At 32 what contract does he sign as a FA?
million dollar deal right now for a 3 year extension. Basically makes it 6 years at 16-17 per. That would be a huge bargain for us in his later years and it might be enough to make him think he got his one big payday and wont miss free agency in his prime.
I think Duda is going to emerge as one of the best power bats in baseball this year. His approach and clean swing is not a fluke.
they want to lock up Duda for "cheap" right now is the time to do it.
that's what I'm saying. HH or ZG said this is the time when teams lock up players or buy up years of arb/FA, and I suggested Duda, DeGrom, and Lagares are players I'd be talking to.
I thought you were saying the opposite PJ. Your original post was confusing.
DMM said Duda wouldn't consider it because he's too close to FA. I don't disagree, but said there are still compelling reasons to try.
And if you're the Mets trying to sell an extension to a player with one year and 2 arbitration seasons from FA you want them to focus on the bad or negative side, not the upside, right?
LOL. If I'm the Mets I wanted Duda scared, sign him, and then have him blossom.
age makes him interesting. As it stands now I don't think he hits FA until age 32, not old but I wonder if he'd be more open to a deal that basically locks him up "for life" (34-35 with options) given the fact he won't hit FA at a young age.
I'd be less worried about deGrom. As you point out he'll be 33 when he hits free agency. Will he still be the player he is now? Still throwing 95+? He's under control for 6 years. A lot can happen between now and then. Pitchers just rarely stay dominant over such a long period.
a contingent in the front office that was split on Gee/Montero for the 5th spot. I think they made the right choice for now but what happens if Montero throws 4-5 innings of shutout ball today against the Yankees "A Lineup"?? lol
Zack Wheeler out of surgery
March, 25, 2015
MAR 25
11:51
AM ET
By Adam Rubin | ESPNNewYork.com
TAMPA, Fla. -- Zack Wheeler underwent Tommy John surgery on Wednesday morning at the Hospital for Special Surgery in Manhattan. The team described the surgery, which was performed by team doctor David Altchek, as "successful."
Altchek reconstructed Wheeler's fully torn ulnar collateral ligament and repaired a partially torn flexor-pronator tendon.
"He is expected to make a full recovery," the Mets said in a statement.
but Jayson Stark said he thinks the Mets not starting Harvey on OD is a symptom of the team trying, for some reason, to restrain his stardom. Believes there's more going on under the surface.
but Jayson Stark said he thinks the Mets not starting Harvey on OD is a symptom of the team trying, for some reason, to restrain his stardom. Believes there's more going on under the surface.
Audio on Buster Olney's podcast.
Harvey is seemingly a cocky, attention enjoying SOB but I don't think one thing has anything to do with the other. He's a rockstar regardless of when he starts. Let's be honest here, Matt Harvey pitching opening day is only a story to Mets fans. It's not like some national story, "Which game is Harvey starting?" If he pitches like Matt Harvey is star will grow regardless of opening day. Who even remembers opening day after the fact?
but Jayson Stark said he thinks the Mets not starting Harvey on OD is a symptom of the team trying, for some reason, to restrain his stardom. Believes there's more going on under the surface.
Audio on Buster Olney's podcast.
It's actually the opposite. Mets did hate Harvey the star, but both sides have learned how to work together. Having him start opening day at home - it's all about Opening Day. Having him start game two, it's all about Harvey.
Secondly, why announce it so early? And have everyone spend all week talking about Harvey? So if the team wanted to shun Harvey the star, the would put less attention on him and more on the team by not starting him game two.
Matt Harvey were throwing "a lot of 91's" (bumping that up because Harvey throws harder than Parnell nowadays). There would 100% be talk of Harvey not being ready to help the Mets soon.
Short rest after just pitching two days ago in which he hit 92 off his first chance ever. I'm just saying a real game is a whole lot different. For all we know he's taking it easy today working on his curve.
I just also think people believe Parnell is some fireballer. He was outstanding in 2013 because of his knuckle curve. His fastball sat around 95 mph. He hasn't been that 100 mph guy in a long time.
Short rest after just pitching two days ago in which he hit 92 off his first chance ever. I'm just saying a real game is a whole lot different. For all we know he's taking it easy today working on his curve.
I just also think people believe Parnell is some fireballer. He was outstanding in 2013 because of his knuckle curve. His fastball sat around 95 mph. He hasn't been that 100 mph guy in a long time.
I dont even think anybody recorded Harvey in his simulated games, side sessions. His first real game was the first recordings we got other than Collins saying he thought he was throwing hard. And we all know Harvey's velocity was geeked up due to adrenaline. Hasn't been close to that since.
such a good arm Parnell is very hittable even when he's throwing hard. Even at his best he doesn't miss as many bats as you would think. He needs every bit of that velocity to be successful. His FB is probably the straightest on the entire team.
RE: Can we please wait until Parnell gets in a game...
I dont even think anybody recorded Harvey in his simulated games, side sessions. His first real game was the first recordings we got other than Collins saying he thought he was throwing hard. And we all know Harvey's velocity was geeked up due to adrenaline. Hasn't been close to that since.
I thought it was slow guns in his follow up start that he said he was sluggish? That he was still throwing 99 in his second start?
The odds of Below or Huchingson making the Opening Day roster seem long, but manager Terry Collins confirmed they are purposefully getting looks. Both are on the trip to George M. Steinbrenner Field as the Mets face the New York Yankees.
"It's not a bad sign," Huchingson said. "That's for sure."
Below, 29, appeared in 43 games (three starts) with the Detroit Tigers and Miami Marlins from 2011 through 2013. Lefty batters have hit .295 against him at the major-league level, whereas righty batters have hit .265.
Still, pitching coach Dan Warthen -- who has seen Below pitch only once so far -- described the action on the veteran southpaw's pitches as "heavy." That means Below induces groundballs and keeps the ball in the ballpark.
"I asked the catchers, because I'm only watching from the side, and it looked like the ball was 'heavy,'" Warthen said. "The catchers said, 'Yeah, it's kind of deceptive.' He gets his hand behind his head. The ball comes out clean. He has enough velocity -- average velocity -- with movement, but the ball comes out heavy."
Parnell would need anyway assuming he has his knuckle curve working. We are talking about a ROOGY that needs to justify a spot. He doesn't need to be the 8th inning guy or closer regardless of what Colin's says.
Maybe for some. But Bobby Parnell would be awful sub-90. Not even sure it's debatable. He's a 2 pitch guy with plus velocity. He's a hitting tee sub 90. I don't even think ZGiants believe Parnell would be good sub 90.
'And it's too soon to question how quickly he can help the Mets?'
That's not what I said. We're all curious when he'll be back. Railing about his velocity is another thing altogether. Give the guy some time before you go off half cocked.
Maybe for some. But Bobby Parnell would be awful sub-90. Not even sure it's debatable. He's a 2 pitch guy with plus velocity. He's a hitting tee sub 90. I don't even think ZGiants believe Parnell would be good sub 90.
Sub 90? Definitely not. Not even sure why that would be suggested if he's already hit 92 in his first session.
is likely to be without Parnell for a while, Edgin is out for the year, and Black isn't likely to be ready for opening day. IMO, it's a shame that we're stuck with a bottom 10 payroll and couldn't add any depth to the bullpen this offseason. Oh well... next man up!
Montero is nervous, or flustered or something. He has pin point control. I'm betting when this kid gains a little confidence, we are going to see him go back to just painting like he did in the minors.
I think Dan gave one of his famous 0%/100% chance regarding Parnell coming back by a certain date? And someone half jokingly made a bet with him? Memory is not the best obviously.
I think Dan gave one of his famous 0%/100% chance regarding Parnell coming back by a certain date? And someone half jokingly made a bet with him? Memory is not the best obviously.
Yes. Dan originally said June as a target for Parnell and said if he made it back inside a month of opening day he wouldn't post here for a month. Obviously I'm not going to hold him to that. Lol
It's odd how good Montero's control was in AAA and how poor it was in MLB. You expect a higher walkrate in MLB but Montero's was like light and day. Smells like small sample size to me. I'd like to see him get a 6-7 start stretch in MLB and see what he can do, especially if out stopgap options aren't performing at a high level.
It's odd how good Montero's control was in AAA and how poor it was in MLB. You expect a higher walkrate in MLB but Montero's was like light and day. Smells like small sample size to me. I'd like to see him get a 6-7 start stretch in MLB and see what he can do, especially if out stopgap options aren't performing at a high level.
The Mets were reportedly "angry" or "upset" with Montero's approach last year at the MLB level. Surprised how timid he was. Not sure why it was that surprising but that was what was reported.
implied in his book that part of the reason he considered firing Collins was the Mets weren't drawing enough walks. I found that interesting for 2 reasons. 1. I'm not really sure how much impact a manager can have on players walking besides yelling at them to take more pitches 2. Everyone and their mother "hated" Hudgens approach yet his seemed more in line with "walking more". I assumed the hitting coach in general is responsible for monitoring this.
or 2/3 of it, we are going to knock some motherfuckers out
Just think Duda and Murphy haven't even really contributed yet either. TDA only for like a week. That's what I keep saying. 3-4 players can go cold and it won't matter. Highly unlikely 8 guys all go cold at once. We should have continued offense all year from all different directions.
implied in his book that part of the reason he considered firing Collins was the Mets weren't drawing enough walks. I found that interesting for 2 reasons. 1. I'm not really sure how much impact a manager can have on players walking besides yelling at them to take more pitches 2. Everyone and their mother "hated" Hudgens approach yet his seemed more in line with "walking more". I assumed the hitting coach in general is responsible for monitoring this.
But then I thought I read the players "saved" TC's job.
implied in his book that part of the reason he considered firing Collins was the Mets weren't drawing enough walks. I found that interesting for 2 reasons. 1. I'm not really sure how much impact a manager can have on players walking besides yelling at them to take more pitches 2. Everyone and their mother "hated" Hudgens approach yet his seemed more in line with "walking more". I assumed the hitting coach in general is responsible for monitoring this.
But then I thought I read the players "saved" TC's job.
No more details other than that.
Yeah so I'm guessing the players took the blame. Just seems strange to blame the manager. Not really sure what Collins could have done differently. Especially when he had guys who didn't walk much in Lagares, TDA, Chris Young, Murphy, Eric Young Jr. How often do you see MLB veteran players suddenly walking a lot more?
mean it was a pretty significant discussion regarding Hudgens having the Mets be "too selective". So I'm not sure how those 2 things jive. This isn't a knock Sandy thing at all, I just don't think teams will "walk more" by any significant amount without having players who walk.
Anthony DiComo @AnthonyDiComo
Thoughts of Parnell being ready late April seem gone at this point. Sometime in May, Im hoping," he said. "But I dont put that in stone.
Collins for physically not taking pitches, but I think he was suggesting he was ineffective as a manager.
Sandy's quote was something like "Oh, so we're not taking pitches anymore. And that's ok"
Like he expected Collins to take certain guys aside and say - take a f-ing pitch or sit on the bench.
When that's your team philosophy and you have guys who won't do it, it makes the approach meaningless.
Theo has talked about that factoring in to trading Nomar.
But everyone kept saying Hudgens made them too passive. Truth is "patient approach" is a disaster being forced upon guys who are 27-28-29 years old. They got where they are doing 1 thing, changing to "patient" from "not patient" almost never happens. Daniel Murphy is a very good MLB hitter, every off-season he would talk about becoming more patient, his career OBP .333, last year .332. Can a young player like Juan Lagares be more selective? Sure. But you look at the 2014 roster and show me who "should have walked more if Collins yelled at them".
should make the team, even if it's just for a few weeks, they have noone else and they would have to return him.
Yup. And monitor Alvarez, Rice, and Leathersich in AAA until somebody emerges hopefully. I've seriously been impressed by Gilmartin lately. And he's been facing a ton of righties too.
any other promising one inning type of reliever candidates at AAA? Meija and Familia are both guys that I don't think we want to overwork.
In terms of guys with late inning upside it's basically Mazzoni but he's had a bad spring. Thornton and Bradford have "filler" ability but aren't anything of note. Montero is probably your best bet.
but I do know it was a hallmark of the Yankees last dynasty.
what I do believe is it isn't just about walking (which is part of it), but it's also about forcing the opposing pitcher to throw a lot of pitches.
And most GM's won't force a guy to be patient, they try and attract players who are patient at the plate and take pitches.
I don't see anyone asking Vlad Guerrero to take more pitches.
There are good players who aren't very patient but most bad players tend to be impatient and the 2014 Mets were full of bad players and most of the "good" players are not very patient. Lagares, Murphy, TDA (has been in the minors overly so in the bigs yet) EYJ, Chris Young etc. I don't recall anyone on here complaining the flaws with the 2014 Mets offense was "lack of patience".
Collins for physically not taking pitches, but I think he was suggesting he was ineffective as a manager.
Sandy's quote was something like "Oh, so we're not taking pitches anymore. And that's ok"
Like he expected Collins to take certain guys aside and say - take a f-ing pitch or sit on the bench.
Managers job is to lead. Don't have to walk 100 times, but if the team philosphy is to do X, and the players are not trying to do X - yes, manager takes the fall. If it's two hitting coaches in a row not getting through to the players, then maybe the importance isn't being relayed enough by the manager. Who may not buy into the philosophy so much himself...
Though, the next manager/hitting coach will sure look like a genious in 'getting through to the players'. Moving from the Murphy's, Granderson's, Legares's, MdD/Kirk's. To the Nimmos' Conforto's, Reynolds, and Plaweckis get promoted. All guys who are huge buy in's to the organizations philosophy...
what it's worth fangraphs has a stat called o-swing% that tells you how often hitters swing at pitches outside the zone and they ranked the Mets 3rd best in baseball last year which means their selectivity was actually very good.
I didn't love the idea at first since he seemingly had some adjustment problems last year, and changing to a BP role may add to that. On the other hand he could add a dynamic presence there and there doesn't seem to much to prove for him in Vegas. Hopefully they can get him in some low pressure situations early on in the season and build up his confidence. Another 'Familia' level guy who can excel in the 7th/8th innings would be a huge addition.
I don't know how patience is measured (# of pitches per at bat, walks, # of first pitch swings, approach with men on base, etc.)
so I defer to Sandy. If he says the team was not doing what he expected them to do I believe him.
When he says the players saved TC's job without any more details I take that to maybe mean they did throw the hitting coach under the bus or something like that, but it's speculative since that's the only comment I saw.
I'm not opining about what players should do, how you can change anyone, or what the approach even means.
I'm just interpreting the publicly released statements.
Collins for physically not taking pitches, but I think he was suggesting he was ineffective as a manager.
Sandy's quote was something like "Oh, so we're not taking pitches anymore. And that's ok"
Like he expected Collins to take certain guys aside and say - take a f-ing pitch or sit on the bench.
Managers job is to lead. Don't have to walk 100 times, but if the team philosphy is to do X, and the players are not trying to do X - yes, manager takes the fall. If it's two hitting coaches in a row not getting through to the players, then maybe the importance isn't being relayed enough by the manager. Who may not buy into the philosophy so much himself...
Though, the next manager/hitting coach will sure look like a genious in 'getting through to the players'. Moving from the Murphy's, Granderson's, Legares's, MdD/Kirk's. To the Nimmos' Conforto's, Reynolds, and Plaweckis get promoted. All guys who are huge buy in's to the organizations philosophy...
Yeah. Like I said, you need the horses to have a working philosophy. The Yankees were so patient... because they added patient/really good hitters. They didn't add turds and suddenly the turds "bought in".
I don't know how patience is measured (# of pitches per at bat, walks, # of first pitch swings, approach with men on base, etc.)
so I defer to Sandy. If he says the team was not doing what he expected them to do I believe him.
When he says the players saved TC's job without any more details I take that to maybe mean they did throw the hitting coach under the bus or something like that, but it's speculative since that's the only comment I saw.
I'm not opining about what players should do, how you can change anyone, or what the approach even means.
I'm just interpreting the publicly released statements.
PJ,
In fairness if an offense sucks... that YOU built... unless you are firing yourself... I mean who added Chris Young, Granderson, started Tejada at SS, Lagares (not knocking Lagares just stating he's not patient or hasn't been)? Sure looks like looking for something to blame.
Mets 3rd best in not swinging at pitches out of the zone 28.8% of the time they swung out of the zone, 19th in swinging at pitches in the zone, 10th in first pitch strikes
Comment From Guest
If Boras isnt Bryants agent, do you think hed be on the Opening Day roster because an extension would be far more likely?
12:23
Dave Cameron: No. That extra year is valuable no matter who the agent is.
Comment From Jersey
As an Os fan, I am basically resigned to them dumping Matusz for a C-grade prospect, then watching him pull an Arrieta for the other team. Im being overly pessimistic, right? He probably wont become a good starter, right?
12:25
Dave Cameron: I dont see Matusz ever getting RHBs out, which keeps him in the bullpen.
Mets 3rd best in not swinging at pitches out of the zone 28.8% of the time they swung out of the zone, 19th in swinging at pitches in the zone, 10th in first pitch strikes
Key stat not measured there is swinging at the hitters pitch, and taking a strike that the batter can't do anything positive with. I assume that's what Sandy was annoyed at with the lineup last year.
Matusz obviously but I'm really not gaga over him. Soft tosser, terrible splits. He'd be an effective LOOGY but 3 million plus prospects when Gilmartin seems to have really gotten it together lately? Idk.
this isn't a knock on Kevin Long (who may end up being a really solid hire) but I think there is a reason there are no "star" hitting coaches, no "best in the business" types. It's pretty well "accepted" that Dave Duncan is/was an ELITE pitching coach. Many believe Don Cooper is the best currently around the game. Rudy Jaramillo went from being a "great" hitting coach in Texas to dumped by the Cubs. I really think at a certain point it's about X amount of talent vs. approach, philosophy etc. If the Mets added guys who traditionally walk a lot/are patient replacing 2 who don't suddenly "it's working!". As Shecky mentioned about I think suddenly the story will be the Mets philosophy when guys like Nimmo, Reynolds, Conforto come up... and not... that they are replacing lesser players.
Mets 3rd best in not swinging at pitches out of the zone 28.8% of the time they swung out of the zone, 19th in swinging at pitches in the zone, 10th in first pitch strikes
Key stat not measured there is swinging at the hitters pitch, and taking a strike that the batter can't do anything positive with. I assume that's what Sandy was annoyed at with the lineup last year.
The offense would have sucked regardless of the manager or hitting coach. That's my point. David Wright was hurt, Chris Young looks finished, Granderson sucked, TDA was awful first half, Tejada sucks, you really think some other manager changes any of those facts from last year?
Really open to debate. I'd be more than willing to give them a Mazzoni though.
How much $$ do the Orioles eat?
I don't think the Orioles are eating much if they are taking back a C prospect. Maybe 1 million max? I feel like it's going to be 2 aballers (maybe not from the Mets) for Matusz. A Whalen and Lawley type of deal (just throwing out random names).
but they will get something for Matusz, just like Sandy got a recent 2nd rd pick for Ike. Unlike Ike, the numbers are in their favor with multiple teams are interested (think I saw as many as 7 somewhere). If they don't want to pick up an $ they won't, but maybe picking some money up will help them get a guy another team is trying to hold off on giving up (for example if they could get Ynoa vs. Mazzoni). I would hope the Mets are willing to make whatever their offer is as competitive as possible by not asking for money back since it's such a small amount to begin with.
One thing they brought up that I hadn't thought abut is that next year is shaping up to be a strong FA class, which could, to some degree add some explanation as to why they spent the bare minimum this offseason. Obviously if the team hits the way they are right now in ST they'll be really good, barring a total catastrophe in the BP. If not their weaknesses should be more glaring, and with better players available I can't see how they wouldn't start spending bigger. NYM Offseason review - ( New Window )
more I think about it the more I think the Mets really, really should lock up Lagares. Ridiculously low downside, reasonably large upside, low risk, and sends a positive message to a fan base in regard to "spending" as well as retaining players...I'm not equating Lagares or Murphy to Reyes but at some point you need to keep guys "long term". I think the downside to a Lagares deal is INSANELY small given what he brings.
Parnell's velocity only sat at 87-91 mph, but he said he was trying not to overthrow. He also noted he primarily threw sinkers, which utilize less velocity than four-seam fastballs.
One thing they brought up that I hadn't thought abut is that next year is shaping up to be a strong FA class, which could, to some degree add some explanation as to why they spent the bare minimum this offseason. Obviously if the team hits the way they are right now in ST they'll be really good, barring a total catastrophe in the BP. If not their weaknesses should be more glaring, and with better players available I can't see how they wouldn't start spending bigger. NYM Offseason review - ( New Window )
The best part of that whole review was reading who are "notable losses" were. lol.
Parnell's velocity only sat at 87-91 mph, but he said he was trying not to overthrow. He also noted he primarily threw sinkers, which utilize less velocity than four-seam fastballs.
Parnell doesn't throw a sinker. Your words, Parnell or Rubins?
Parnell's velocity only sat at 87-91 mph, but he said he was trying not to overthrow. He also noted he primarily threw sinkers, which utilize less velocity than four-seam fastballs.
Parnell doesn't throw a sinker. Your words, Parnell or Rubins?
Lagares is arbitration eligible after the season which is why you lock him up now or no later than the off-season. The goal is to buy out arbitration years and hopefully 1-2 of FA. 6 year deal worth 30-35 seems smart for both sides.
but I've watched about 7 preseason games this spring( parts of) and I don't remember 1 at bat that Lagares gave up or really got himself out on. I've seen him hitting the ball hard with 2 strikes. He is my pick today for team MVP
at say (32 million, just using that because it's an easy number), 1 WAR is roughly 7 million so unless you think Juan Lagares is a total mirage he's well worth it. What's the absolute worst case? He's an awesome 4th OF you are paying 7 million to in 2 years? If he's merely a league average regular (and he's been far better than that) he basically pays for himself in 2+ years time.
What if Lagares is feeling it and KNOWS he's going to bust out this year? Don't you think he might want to hold off on an extension? He's a little older too. He might want a chance at ONE payday in his prime.
suggest Lagares is the guy they should most focus on extending/locking up. Even if you don't expect him to improve at all I think he's well worth it. A normal team should live with the downside of a 6 million dollar GG 4th OF
What if Lagares is feeling it and KNOWS he's going to bust out this year? Don't you think he might want to hold off on an extension? He's a little older too. He might want a chance at ONE payday in his prime.
I find it unlikely he gambles on himself when he's not a FA until after 2019. 30 or so million (likely with the usual 2 team options at inflated money tacked on) sets him for life vs. playing out 2015, 2016, 2017, 2018 and 2019. I'd at least approach him.
but I've watched about 7 preseason games this spring( parts of) and I don't remember 1 at bat that Lagares gave up or really got himself out on. I've seen him hitting the ball hard with 2 strikes. He is my pick today for team MVP
Its the entire approach that has me excited. He isn't swinging at anything out of the strike zone, he's fouling off tough pitches, and beating up on strikes. It could all be a mirage but he looks like a different player.
I'll put my neck out. Won't post till opening day if he threw more than one sinker ball in his game today.
Why though? Nobody's arguing with you or against you. lol. Trying to ban yourself? It wouldn't be the first time he's unleashed a new pitch out of nowhere. He never threw a curveball in his life before 2012. Was strictly Fastball/Slider.
really not taking sides here because I have no idea (and I don't know exactly what/how Shecky is involved) but he's got legit connections with the team (I wouldn't be shocked if he even worked for the team but I don't believe that to be the case).
really not taking sides here because I have no idea (and I don't know exactly what/how Shecky is involved) but he's got legit connections with the team (I wouldn't be shocked if he even worked for the team but I don't believe that to be the case).
Well thats weird. He's seems as lost as most of us half the time. lol. jk. I used to have a great connection with the Marlins but he no longer works in the front office. I wouldn't give up his name but I had no problem telling people I did. I also came within a cunts hair of a pretty high up job with the Mets myself when I first got my MBA. Came down between me and two other candidates but alas... It wasn't meant to be. lol.
and Ive probably said this before, but I used to get press passes for all the Marlin games. 9 times a year Id be in the dugout with players, ect to the point that they actually started to recognize me after a few years. Miguel Cairo asked me and my girlfriend out with him one time. lol. We declined.
Chavez and yes, David Wright both put their numbers on balls and gave them to girls in the crowd (this is circa 2006 or so) the girl had pictures on her phone verifying this (some girl at a bar).
be clear I don't believe Shecky works for the Mets but he's more than a simple casual fan. I have no inside "Shecky" info but he's known things normal fans wouldn't.
be clear I don't believe Shecky works for the Mets but he's more than a simple casual fan. I have no inside "Shecky" info but he's known things normal fans wouldn't.
lol. Its just funny. Who would be THAT adamant about the impossibility of Parnell ever throwing a sinker outside of maybe Warthen. Haha.
if this happened. Could Montero be pitching himself into consideration for the 5 spot? Apparently today was a "test" by the organization to see how he would do with pressure in the limelight against the Yankees. Link - ( New Window )
poor Gee but you have to think about what's better for the long term of the organization and clearly Gee is not the future. I would still feel bad for him though.
Forbes Magazine values the Mets at 1.3 billion, 7th most valuable franchise in MLB. The disturbing part is Forbes claim they made 25 million last year. The Oriole Loogy is out there and they won't pull the trigger because they want the Orioles to pick up some of the contract?
really love seeing Montero open the season in the rotation over Gee. My opinion is let guys fail before you make them relievers (unless there is an injury history to consider).
He did show some real potential yesterday. He looked like the guy we were excited about last year at this time
Thing to remember is despite being "older" for the level for much of his career he's ROCKETED through the system so while he looked timid with iffy command last year in the bigs, I think the guy deserves a little slack. Even with his struggles he still struck out 42 in 44 innings in the MLB last year.
I think we likely all agree it's unlikely the guy is ever a Matt Harvey or 2014 deGrom but I also think it's highly possible his upside is at least "healthy" Jon Niese-ish. I've always rooted for Dillon Gee because he's a good story, late pick, has overcome injuries etc but let's be honest here Dillon Gee is a filler talent. I'm happy we have a Gee to fall back on but odds are the Mets would be losing close to "nothing" if Gee were gone and they went with Montero with Thor and Matz at AAA.
really love seeing Montero open the season in the rotation over Gee. My opinion is let guys fail before you make them relievers (unless there is an injury history to consider).
100% agree. I have no ill will toward Gee, but I think we can do better than him.
Could be an interesting couple days around here and with media. May be a few days without baseball - what could we possibly write about over the next 48 hours if we don't have actual games to talk about lol.
he is a late pick, he has overcome injuries and most important to me, he has been a class act about the trade rumors and moving to the bullpen. Not one bit of anger or frustration from him. He took it like a great teammate. Having said that, if Dillon Gee is not on, he will get lit up, he relies on location and finesse. Montero is a solid potential number 4 thatNetwork can get lefties out with a beautiful change up. The upsides of the both of them are not comparable. Give the ball to Montero
Could be an interesting couple days around here and with media. May be a few days without baseball - what could we possibly write about over the next 48 hours if we don't have actual games to talk about lol.
Shecky,
The thing is there is probably a close to 0% chance Gee is back with the Mets next year at close to 7 million so his value is really 2015 vs. Montero with Matz/Thor as insurance. I'm going with the longer term option.
In comment 12203992 Headhunter said:
[quote] he is a late pick, he has overcome injuries and most important to me, he has been a class act about the trade rumors and moving to the bullpen. Not one bit of anger or frustration from him. He took it like a great teammate. Having said that, if Dillon Gee is not on, he will get lit up, he relies on location and finesse. Montero is a solid potential number 4 thatNetwork can get lefties out with a beautiful change up. The upsides of the both of them are not comparable. Give the ball to Montero [/quote
well said.. except for the Network thing.. but otherwise spot on.
Little doubt Montero is the better long term piece. And zero argument he is by far the greater bang for the buck. Just saying Gee is a good, major league pitcher. In a big game he won't get rattled. I can think of many more worse problems than being "stuck" with him.
That said, I've made it very clear over and over again I'm pissed off we haven't shed salary, starting with Colon. So I would strongly prefer an asset Gee can return over Gee the asset, dollar for dollar, for our teams needs
actually. I think Gee is better than what he showed last year coming back off of injury and has more value then what people have been willing to admit.
Montero on the other hand has been surpassed by other exciting prospects in peoples minds, but my god, he was hitting 97 on the gun yesterday with pin point control. No walks, one run allowed against the Yankees A lineup. I wouldn't be surprised at all if Montero had a "DeGrom type" breakout if given a chance.
Little doubt Montero is the better long term piece. And zero argument he is by far the greater bang for the buck. Just saying Gee is a good, major league pitcher. In a big game he won't get rattled. I can think of many more worse problems than being "stuck" with him.
I disagree. Gee was worth 1.8 fWAR in 2013 and 0.4 fWar last year. Steamer and Zips both project him for about half a win this year. We know what Gee is, and it's not a "good" MLB pitcher. He's a spot starter/long man on a good team, at best, not a guy you are going to give 30+ starts to.
If Montero looks good, and he's a guy that we have a long term interest in, why waste any starts on Gee? I think Montero is better than Gee right now and every win is going to count this year.
at the top of his game and while I'll agree he hasn't really been consistent over a few years period and has battled injuries ect, it was not that long ago he had that stretch of 30 starts or so of utter dominance. He was one of the best pitchers in baseball during that stretch.
is rip into Gee if he starts and gets banged around.
Well if he gets banged around we will ALL call for him to be replaced. I mean I'm a Mets fan not a Dillon Gee fan. I want to win games, not human interest stories.
at the top of his game and while I'll agree he hasn't really been consistent over a few years period and has battled injuries ect, it was not that long ago he had that stretch of 30 starts or so of utter dominance. He was one of the best pitchers in baseball during that stretch.
You can take the best stretch of starts for a lot of pitchers and they'd look great. I'm more interested in what we can expect going forward based on his entire body of work. Also, it's not like he was striking out a ton of guys during that run or is known as a prolific ground ball pitcher, I think a lot of that run was good fortune.
Anyway, I'm not trying to be too harsh on Gee. Having him at #5 isn't a disaster. But, if our rotation is going to be a strength this year, and I think it'll have to be to make a playoff run, having 3/5 of the rotation be Niese, 41 year old Colon, and Dillon Gee, might make that difficult. IMO, it's hard objectively say that our rotation is elite at the moment. We're relying more on projections with Thor and Matz rather than the guys who are breaking camp.
I'd rather see him in Vegas waiting in line should something happen, rather then languish in our pen getting an inning every other day or so. This has been brought about by our other issues in the bullpen, I don't want it to impact Montero
Little doubt Montero is the better long term piece. And zero argument he is by far the greater bang for the buck. Just saying Gee is a good, major league pitcher. In a big game he won't get rattled. I can think of many more worse problems than being "stuck" with him.
I disagree. Gee was worth 1.8 fWAR in 2013 and 0.4 fWar last year. Steamer and Zips both project him for about half a win this year. We know what Gee is, and it's not a "good" MLB pitcher. He's a spot starter/long man on a good team, at best, not a guy you are going to give 30+ starts to.
If Montero looks good, and he's a guy that we have a long term interest in, why waste any starts on Gee? I think Montero is better than Gee right now and every win is going to count this year.
I'd be interested to know the win shares for back of the rotation starters in general. Are they expected to be worth 3-4 wins?
it's not just the fancy stats that don't think Gee is that valuable. We all know that the Mets were trying hard to deal him (before Wheeler got hurt) and couldn't find anyone to bite.
HH,
Are you being serious here? Because Gee is classy you won't be calling for him to be replaced? One of the strangest arguments/statements I've seen in my years here.
and I wasn't really saying that's the "real Gee", more just what we've seen him capable of at the top of his game.
To me the rotation went from "excellent" with Wheeler to "Cookie Cutter Solid". At least at the moment.
1.) Harvey-Undoubtedly an ace
2.) deGrom- Undoubtedly a solid number 2
3.) Neise - If healthy a solid 3
4.) Colon- Prototypical innings eater 4 /15 game winner- 200 innings
5.) Gee-Perfect 5.
I think the hope is that towards the half way point the rotation starts to back to excellent again.
Basically a league average player is worth 2 WAR (except relievers). WAR isn't a rate stat aka, you can be awesome but not play a full slate and be worth less than a guy who was worse but over a full-season.
that we prefer Montero. How you react to Dillon Gee on the mound is up to you. What I do and you do are our own business
What? Talk about changing the argument. You said
Quote:
is rip into Gee if he starts and gets banged around.
and I said
Quote:
Well if he gets banged around we will ALL call for him to be replaced. I mean I'm a Mets fan not a Dillon Gee fan. I want to win games, not human interest stories.
and somehow you are disagreeing with this statement? Wow.
but I'm not getting drawn into a DMM- Z pissing match. Im moving on
That is utter BS. You make a statement and then "move on". Which fans don't care about results? If Niese has a 6.00 era through 20 starts but you like him you wouldn't want him replaced? If Flores has 30 errors in 50 games but you like him you wouldn't call for him to be replaced? I'm seriously blown away by this claim beyond anything I've ever seen on here.
What I won't do
Headhunter : 9:46 am : link : reply
is rip into Gee if he starts and gets banged around.
This is what I wrote and you went off like you always seem to do in putting words in peoples mouths. This is all I said, period, end of story
But I responded by saying we would call to have him replaced which you disagreed with. Calling to have someone replaced isn't "ripping them" on some personal level. If players don't play well fans want them replaced. Guys with a long track record of success or some personal connection with the fans get a longer leash but poor performance for most adult fans (not using adult in a mocking way, just that children are different) = wanting a replacement.
like I said above 1.1 WAR from your 5th starter is considered "break even" throughout the 30 teams, obviously that includes teams with terrible pitching as well.
where did I say that if Gee gets pounded I won't be calling or him to be removed from the rotation? I thought I meant that I wouldn't get into the "Gee sucks" "fucking Dillon Gee" nonsense by ripping him.
where did I say that if Gee gets pounded I won't be calling or him to be removed from the rotation? I thought I meant that I wouldn't get into the "Gee sucks" "fucking Dillon Gee" nonsense by ripping him.
But does that really happen that often on here? Outside of Tejada I can't recall anyone ever getting that treatment from even the craziest of fans on here. Maybe Chris Young too but he was absolutely horrendous.
admittedly hated watching Trachsel pitch but he was solid enough. I remember the Mets were ripped for signing him but for the price 2 years 7 he was a nice pickup. Kenny Rogers pitched well for the Mets down the stretch too but somehow nobody remembers that. Another underrated Met was Yoshii, not bad.
that I've read attacks on Met players who failed in key spots or became whipping boys like Tejada, Young, Castillo, Perez, Bay.
So if Curtis Granderson is Jason Bay bad you won't say he sucks/is done? It's not some personal attack on a player to say as a player they suck if they do. I'm sure their own teammates feel that way. What are you supposed to say if a player does poorly for a long period of time? "I am disappointed that Bay hasn't performed. Wish he would do better. Well what can you do?"
that I've read attacks on Met players who failed in key spots or became whipping boys like Tejada, Young, Castillo, Perez, Bay.
Can't forget BBIs two current favorites: Collins, and Fred.
I've yet to read a SINGLE positive comment regarding Jeff Wilpon in my years following the Mets. Not one. Though I will say Adam Rubin seemingly likes him somewhat.
for Collins, managers live to be ripped. It's just the way it goes in sports. Even God amongst men Wally Backman would be ripped after a while. Somehow the perception from all fans is they can manager better than the current manager and that their manager is THE WORST at handling a bullpen.
I want EVERYONE that can't perform gone. I can also choose not to call players whatever comes into my head and type it out. I think of Gee as a good guy who if he fails should be upgraded. I'll just pass on calling him names and writing he "sucks"
There are people you hate, until you meet them. Extremely successful people tend to have something about them, an aura for lack of better words, that you walk away being impress with and liking them. Hard to explain but I'm sure you know what im talking about. Jeff Wilpon, let's say is simply lacking that. But no one ever claimed he was successful other than being the fastest sperm.
met Fred on 3 occasions, briefly had a legit conversation outside of CitiField on a non-game day and he was really legit nice where he could have been dismissive. Every single Jeff Wilpon story is a negative one. I wish the Mets had different owners but specifically because soon Jeff will fully be in charge and that is terrifying to me.
fWAR for batters is really solid IMHO, I like it a lot. fWAR for pitchers is still a useful tool and not terrible, but there is a not-insignificant park factor issue that, to my knowledge, has not been addressed yet. Basically the problem is that fWAR is based on a pitcher's FIP adjusted for park and league, but the park adjustment is based on ERA park factors instead of FIP park factors, which is a mismatch. The net result here is that pitchers get systematically overvalued/undervalued by fWAR based on their home park, in some cases by about half a win. Mets pitchers, in this instance, get unfairly penalized because Citi Field suppresses ERA more than it suppresses FIP.
This isn't meant to argue that Dillon Gee is an awesome pitcher - he's not. In all likelihood he is a below-average major league starter. But if you add another 0.5 or 0.6 to Gee's projected WAR, he clocks in at 1.1 or 1.2, and while that's still below average, it's at least meaningfully above replacement level.
Zg if Gee's a perfect 5th starter what's Gio Gonzalez? Extra perfect?
I like Gee a lot, and think at various times over his career he's not only been very solid but also shown glimpses of the potential to evolve into the Rick Reed kind of profile. At most other points in time he would have been a no brainer 4th or 5th guy for this franchise. If he gets a chance in the rotation i'd be ok with it and if he pitches like he did a couple years ago I'm certainly fine with him keeping there. But if not there's just too much potential in the guys knocking on the doorstep. Just like JdG, who knows what can happen when these guys get their chance at the ML level?
side question - is there an innings cap on Montero for this season? If so, would it make sense to start him in the bullpen and see how Gee does? If he sucks for 2-3 starts, you get Montero into the rotation and then he possibly has more innings left in him. Or if Gee pitches well you let him continue until a deal comes along.
on Trachsel for being the human rain delay all we want but I remember that AFTER he came back up from that AAA demotion he was a very solid cog for us and turned in some very solid numbers during the steroid era for a while.
met Fred on 3 occasions, briefly had a legit conversation outside of CitiField on a non-game day and he was really legit nice where he could have been dismissive. Every single Jeff Wilpon story is a negative one. I wish the Mets had different owners but specifically because soon Jeff will fully be in charge and that is terrifying to me.
I've heard the exactly the same from people who deal with Jeff very regularly.
don't like Lagares hitting 9th. I'd like to see him have a shot to develop his bat with some protection. Maybe it doesn't develop but how about letting the guy have another few months before we decide he can't? I have to believe the pitcher 8th stuff would be done a LOT more at this point if teams found it to work "by the numbers".
Totally unrelated but interesting piece in Grantland which shows that Bartolo Colon GAINED the second most velocity the second time through the order, and ZacK Wheeler lost the second most. May be elbow related, maybe not. Just interesting.
fWAR for batters is really solid IMHO, I like it a lot. fWAR for pitchers is still a useful tool and not terrible, but there is a not-insignificant park factor issue that, to my knowledge, has not been addressed yet. Basically the problem is that fWAR is based on a pitcher's FIP adjusted for park and league, but the park adjustment is based on ERA park factors instead of FIP park factors, which is a mismatch. The net result here is that pitchers get systematically overvalued/undervalued by fWAR based on their home park, in some cases by about half a win. Mets pitchers, in this instance, get unfairly penalized because Citi Field suppresses ERA more than it suppresses FIP.
This isn't meant to argue that Dillon Gee is an awesome pitcher - he's not. In all likelihood he is a below-average major league starter. But if you add another 0.5 or 0.6 to Gee's projected WAR, he clocks in at 1.1 or 1.2, and while that's still below average, it's at least meaningfully above replacement level.
Audible,
It's been adjusted by fangraphs. The Mets pen went from 29th to 25th, rotation up to 10th.
Maybe it takes a certain number of pitches to warm up the stem cells?
fWAR for batters is really solid IMHO, I like it a lot. fWAR for pitchers is still a useful tool and not terrible, but there is a not-insignificant park factor issue that, to my knowledge, has not been addressed yet. Basically the problem is that fWAR is based on a pitcher's FIP adjusted for park and league, but the park adjustment is based on ERA park factors instead of FIP park factors, which is a mismatch. The net result here is that pitchers get systematically overvalued/undervalued by fWAR based on their home park, in some cases by about half a win. Mets pitchers, in this instance, get unfairly penalized because Citi Field suppresses ERA more than it suppresses FIP.
This isn't meant to argue that Dillon Gee is an awesome pitcher - he's not. In all likelihood he is a below-average major league starter. But if you add another 0.5 or 0.6 to Gee's projected WAR, he clocks in at 1.1 or 1.2, and while that's still below average, it's at least meaningfully above replacement level.
Fair post, but can we really say for sure that fWar has the wrong of it? If our hitters are going to get slack for lack of HRs in Citi Field, then shouldn't we ask more from our pitchers for games pitched there?
Harvey was worth 6.5 fWar his best year and deGrom was worth 3.5 fWar in limited action last year, so it's not like you can't run up a good fWar as a pitcher in Citi Field if you are legit good.
met Fred on 3 occasions, briefly had a legit conversation outside of CitiField on a non-game day and he was really legit nice where he could have been dismissive. Every single Jeff Wilpon story is a negative one. I wish the Mets had different owners but specifically because soon Jeff will fully be in charge and that is terrifying to me.
I've heard the exactly the same from people who deal with Jeff very regularly.
Fred actually stopped in his tracks and spoke to me for a good 4-5 minutes, which actually surprised me. I was even sort of starstruck so I didn't know what to say but he seemed like he was happy to have fans. Gammons used to talk about how much people disliked Jeff however.
Totally unrelated but interesting piece in Grantland which shows that Bartolo Colon GAINED the second most velocity the second time through the order, and ZacK Wheeler lost the second most. May be elbow related, maybe not. Just interesting.
Could be savvy veteran pitchers learn a lot of the years. Changing speed and location can be as effective as movement. That's pitching. Something Mr. Syndergaard is learning.
RE: Maybe it takes a certain number of pitches to warm up the stem cells?
I'd guess more likely Colon throws X hard by choice (not that he secretly could throw 95) but that if he really wanted to open games with the 1.25 MPH he "gains" second time through he could. Seems like a strategic junkballer move to me.
anyone who works with the organization, and especially those within it, know he's just an asshole. On many more than 1 occasion he has been the source of leaked information to the press that was outright childish. When the Einhorn deal started getting messy because they realized they made a bad deal specifically. I'm almost certain the Tulowitzki stuff this past December was him too, to put to rest the notation that they were "refusing" to spend.
clarify, fangraphs has adjusted for this issue (back dating as well) so the current numbers are accurate ie Harvey now has a 6.5 2013 fWAR after adjustment. So the projections are "accurate".
and sorry Audible. I misread your post and missed your point. You can go ahead and ignore my response.
Metnut,
Your comment is still valid though. Those giving the Mets bats a bump for the new wall don't take the Mets pitchers taking a potential hit as well. The thing is you can't really accurately project how a stadium will play year to year (especially with a new wall).
I don't believe you need to converse with the Junior to recognize what's coming.
I would guess
A. He will communicate (poorly) non-stop with the media
B. Wreck the culture of the organization and the perception from fans
C. Fire many managers and be involved with many personal decisions (a very bad Danny Snyder type)
D. Sell the team b/c he's not a business person
Jeffrey will make the dark days of the Jets look sane. The family foundation is built on real estate and money which wasn't even theirs. Com'on, the market tripled since the collapse and this family hasn't even touched their principle as they refinanced debt to the tune of $1.2 billion over the past few years. At least the Sterling Website (just 3 months ago) upgraded their photo of Kaz Matsui, Reyes and Willie Randolph. Talk about out of touch. Stay tuned
clarify, fangraphs has adjusted for this issue (back dating as well) so the current numbers are accurate ie Harvey now has a 6.5 2013 fWAR after adjustment. So the projections are "accurate".
You had to get that one last dig earlier how the Mets bullpen adjusted from29th to 25th lol
clarify, fangraphs has adjusted for this issue (back dating as well) so the current numbers are accurate ie Harvey now has a 6.5 2013 fWAR after adjustment. So the projections are "accurate".
You had to get that one last dig earlier how the Mets bullpen adjusted from29th to 25th lol
Well it's relevant when the starters got significant bumps but the overall staff was "only" 18th.
Metnut,
Your comment is still valid though. Those giving the Mets bats a bump for the new wall don't take the Mets pitchers taking a potential hit as well. The thing is you can't really accurately project how a stadium will play year to year (especially with a new wall).
Yeah, it's an interesting item to discuss.
It's important (and Dan, I know you know this) to note that the park factors used for batters and pitchers are separate. We don't use FIP (or a FIP-equivalent for batters) to model offensive WAR for position players, we use wOBA - and so we want to use a wOBA park factor on offense and a FIP park factor for pitchers.
Metnut, I had a longer reply and then deleted it. The problem - and apparently this has been corrected - was that the pitcher fWAR was using a park factor that unfairly penalized Mets pitchers. If the correct park factor is used for offense, you get a net negative effect at the team level - if the park factor error for pitchers was in the neighborhood of 0.5 WAR / 200 IP, over the course of an entire season that's a nearly four-win negative skew for the Mets' team projection.
Dan, did you see any announcement from FanGraphs when they made that adjustment? They're usually reasonably clear about methodology, unlike some sites for other sports (*cough*Football Outsiders*cough*), but I like to see how the sausage gets made.
Metnut,
Your comment is still valid though. Those giving the Mets bats a bump for the new wall don't take the Mets pitchers taking a potential hit as well. The thing is you can't really accurately project how a stadium will play year to year (especially with a new wall).
Yeah, it's an interesting item to discuss.
It's important (and Dan, I know you know this) to note that the park factors used for batters and pitchers are separate. We don't use FIP (or a FIP-equivalent for batters) to model offensive WAR for position players, we use wOBA - and so we want to use a wOBA park factor on offense and a FIP park factor for pitchers.
Metnut, I had a longer reply and then deleted it. The problem - and apparently this has been corrected - was that the pitcher fWAR was using a park factor that unfairly penalized Mets pitchers. If the correct park factor is used for offense, you get a net negative effect at the team level - if the park factor error for pitchers was in the neighborhood of 0.5 WAR / 200 IP, over the course of an entire season that's a nearly four-win negative skew for the Mets' team projection.
Dan, did you see any announcement from FanGraphs when they made that adjustment? They're usually reasonably clear about methodology, unlike some sites for other sports (*cough*Football Outsiders*cough*), but I like to see how the sausage gets made.
Audible
1. I really meant as a casual discussion "I think Granderson will hit 10 more homers" but nobody is saying "but Colon may give up 4 more homers" etc.
2. Basically Noah Baron had this lengthy 2 part piece that identified the issue and then they corrected it. Not really sure when it happened but here is his piece
If you read back, I said Gee was fine as a number 5 if we are talking about the classic cookie cutter type of rotation. In fact I even said currently we look solid, not great or excellent. Obviously the Nationals Super Rotation isn't what we are talking about here. And by the end of the year, we will be MUCH better than that as well.
As for Montero, I'm out now but I don't think he'll have an innings cap this year. Maybe a slight one, but nothing crazy.
1. I really meant as a casual discussion "I think Granderson will hit 10 more homers" but nobody is saying "but Colon may give up 4 more homers" etc.
2. Basically Noah Baron had this lengthy 2 part piece that identified the issue and then they corrected it. Not really sure when it happened but here is his piece
(2) I meant to link that specific piece in my reply to Metnut, and then forgot :)
Fangraphs Community Research really is one of the best parts of the site. August Fagerstrom got hired in large part on the basis of his community posts, and he's probably my favorite addition to the site in some time (with apologies to Kiley). He has a SABR award in his future.
And since I mentioned the SABR awards and I'm already off-track relative to the thread topic, I'm going to link the piece that got Jeff Sullivan his 2014 SABR award, because Jeff Sullivan is a national treasure. Alex Gordon Barely Had a Chance - ( New Window )
I didn't understand your initial point about how the park factor was off when it came to the Mets. Good job by fangraphs to at least adjust it afterwards.
if I felt he was better suited to it than Gee. I wouldn't have a long leash with Gee, but ideally he pitches solidly as a starter and builds up some trade value while Montero helps the BP until Parnell's return (also saving some innings on Montero's arm).
if I felt he was better suited to it than Gee. I wouldn't have a long leash with Gee, but ideally he pitches solidly as a starter and builds up some trade value while Montero helps the BP until Parnell's return (also saving some innings on Montero's arm).
Meh, a limit that high (175 or so) I don't think is worth changing a guys role. They have Torres for multiple innings and they have Thor and Matz at AAA. I don't think innings management is such a big deal. I'm not looking to stir this up again but I'm not counting on Parnell for much. Not saying he won't help but I wouldn't rely on it.
Parnell said he was throwing 2 seamers, not sinkers.
So who won the bet?
I'm too tired to rile up ZGiants again but Shecky would win this one.
""I went into this outing trying not to overthrow," Parnell said. "I knew the gun wasn't going to be anything outstanding. So I backed off. I wanted to work on my two-seamer because it wasn't there last game, and make sure I stayed back on the rubber and stuff like that. It was more of a 'go out there and knock the rust off' type of thing, rather than overthrow.""
if I felt he was better suited to it than Gee. I wouldn't have a long leash with Gee, but ideally he pitches solidly as a starter and builds up some trade value while Montero helps the BP until Parnell's return (also saving some innings on Montero's arm).
Meh, a limit that high (175 or so) I don't think is worth changing a guys role. They have Torres for multiple innings and they have Thor and Matz at AAA. I don't think innings management is such a big deal. I'm not looking to stir this up again but I'm not counting on Parnell for much. Not saying he won't help but I wouldn't rely on it.
I agree about Parnell Dan - that's part of the reason why I think Montero can impact the team more in the BP than the starting rotation. When I watch him pitch he looks a like K-Rod to me, and maybe it's too superficial but he has the stature of a reliever more than a traditional innings eater.
Believe me, I have no major allegiance to Gee deserving the nod over him necessarily. Just don't think Gee will be a boost to the BP and think that's a much bigger ? right now than the 5th starter.
all honesty if I'm Terry Collins I probably go with Gee in the rotation as well. Montero probably has a bit more juice out of the pen and a more resilient arm. I just prefer going with the upside play and I'm worried about Montero being "stuck" in the pen if he gets there and does pretty well.
I wonder how much size and strength should really matter for a SP now
The prototypical innings eater is pretty much dead. If a smaller guy can pitch, let him pitch. Just about every pitcher except the top aces get the hook at 100 pitches anyway. You don't need a roger clemens body for that.
RE: I wonder how much size and strength should really matter for a SP now
The prototypical innings eater is pretty much dead. If a smaller guy can pitch, let him pitch. Just about every pitcher except the top aces get the hook at 100 pitches anyway. You don't need a roger clemens body for that.
The Reds have done unusually well with shorter SP's. Cueto, Volquez, Leake, now trying this Cuban kid.
all honesty if I'm Terry Collins I probably go with Gee in the rotation as well. Montero probably has a bit more juice out of the pen and a more resilient arm. I just prefer going with the upside play and I'm worried about Montero being "stuck" in the pen if he gets there and does pretty well.
That's completely fair. Only counter argument is that there's even more upside not too far down the road with both Matz & Sydnergaard. Maybe they decide to give Montero the 5th spot and there's a trade possibility out there to deal Gee for someone in the BP? What's up with Rex Brothers?
not one of those who is obsessed with "having a lefty" (though we have Matz anyway) but to me I'd love to see Montero, Thor and Matz all make significant starts this year in place of Gee, Niese and Colon. Probably not realistic just would be nice.
is owed 4 million, hard to see the Mets needing money from the Orioles for Matusz at 3.2 but doing that. Dodgers (as Rubin noted), have 2 guys with options left. Brothers would be a nice gamble but they previously turned down Gee for Brothers so he wouldn't be cheap. Logan is FAR too expensive. If I'm being honest I've never even heard of Adam Liberatore but he had a BEAST season last year at AAA and having a nice spring.
with a Bowman type practically ready. But hopefully Gee can reclaim some value if he does indeed start at the 5 and we can trade him sooner than later.
RE: I never saw anything that said Gee for Brothers was a deal they turned
down, but if so maybe they reconsider? I haven't seen how he's done in spring training, but I think I'd do that deal.
Howell & Matusz would also be good pickups...where did you see that they needed $ back on Matusz?
According to Thomas Harding the Rockies beat guy from mlb.com said the Rockies had "no interest" in Gee for Brothers and that their reported interest in Gee was highly overstated. He even responded to this topic when I asked him via twitter but I don't know how to find out tweets.
They havent won for 100 years, and they should start trying to win today, Boras said. Cubs fans are paying the third-highest ticket prices. They are paying for the team to win today. They dont pay to see the club do business.
down, but if so maybe they reconsider? I haven't seen how he's done in spring training, but I think I'd do that deal.
Howell & Matusz would also be good pickups...where did you see that they needed $ back on Matusz?
According to Thomas Harding the Rockies beat guy from mlb.com said the Rockies had "no interest" in Gee for Brothers and that their reported interest in Gee was highly overstated. He even responded to this topic when I asked him via twitter but I don't know how to find out tweets.
nm I misunderstood your post and thought you meant the Mets turned it down. The Rockies not having interest is the last thing I'd remembered on the subject.
maybe things have changed but the reports were while the Rockies did discuss Gee they weren't interested enough to give up Brothers but would give up Logan. Gee for Logan would suck balls.
saying the exact same thing whenever asked. Really the only rumor we'd ever heard was just that the Mets liked Brothers (not that it was actively discussed or close to happening).
As far as Matusz/Howell go, I'd take either and assuming it was an inconsequential C-level prospect I can't imagine our budget is so tight that we'd need either team to eat $. I mean, neither one of those guys is getting paid a fortune and it seems highly likely we'll save money eventually when a whichever veteran pitcher gets dealt eventually to open up a spot in the rotation.
RE: Yeah I followed Harding most of the winter and remembered him
saying the exact same thing whenever asked. Really the only rumor we'd ever heard was just that the Mets liked Brothers (not that it was actively discussed or close to happening).
As far as Matusz/Howell go, I'd take either and assuming it was an inconsequential C-level prospect I can't imagine our budget is so tight that we'd need either team to eat $. I mean, neither one of those guys is getting paid a fortune and it seems highly likely we'll save money eventually when a whichever veteran pitcher gets dealt eventually to open up a spot in the rotation.
I feel like those 2 are the more realistic/better gambles. Logan would be one of the highest paid players on the Mets... would you really want him sucking up that much salary hoping for a bounce back? Brothers seemingly would cost a decent amount (Rodriguez as well). Matusz or Howell seem like the most "realistic" or this other kid I've never heard of.
I don't see the urgency for the Dodgers to deal Howell, he's been steady for them and good playoff performer, unless they are filling another hole (haven't followed them, but maybe they have one?). Same with the Rockies and Brothers, who I don't see getting dealt unless it fills another hole.
Matusz on the other hand seems like an odd man out situation. O's are trying to keep Verrett and their other Rule V pick. They're a somewhat budget conscious organization. I think it's likely they deal him, the question is just cost.
Adam Rubin @AdamRubinESPN
No great surprise, but a #Mets source acknowledges Sandy Alderson is talking to multiple teams about acquiring lefty relief help.
Though if the bats stay hot it may not matter. This season can't start fast enough.
has a beautiful swing. Online they are question how he hit .226 in A ball with that swing. Thought he might be a utility guy, might end up a whole lot more than that. Like Backman said, the more you watch him, the more you like him
has a beautiful swing. Online they are question how he hit .226 in A ball with that swing. Thought he might be a utility guy, might end up a whole lot more than that. Like Backman said, the more you watch him, the more you like him
He actually changed his swing before last season. Worked on it all offseason before 2014. It obviously worked.
Reynolds changed a lot of opinions early in the spring, quietly. Now he is getting more of the media and fans attention. Nice to see hard work paying off. Bowman was the other quiet star the first two weeks of spring. Opened some eyes real wide. Great to see him make some more noise against some real competetion!!
Reynolds changed a lot of opinions early in the spring, quietly. Now he is getting more of the media and fans attention. Nice to see hard work paying off. Bowman was the other quiet star the first two weeks of spring. Opened some eyes real wide. Great to see him make some more noise against some real competetion!!
Weren't you bashing me about Reynolds a few weeks ago? jk. ;)
In a Triple-A appearance Wednesday as he works back from Tommy John surgery, Parnell sat at 87-91 mph with his fastball.
Still, Warthen said: "It's where it should be."
Warthen suggested Parnell's velocity will be more normal in a week to 10 days, when he gets more games under his belt and builds up arm strength. The coach added that pitchers typically pick up a couple of miles per hour on their fastball from adrenaline once they get into a major league stadium and with regular-season games at stake. Link - ( New Window )
I'll be the first to admit it. I was always the furthest thing from a Reynolds fan personally. Couldn't ignore last season, and he has blown away this spring. Very impressive.
about his defense. He has shown a ton of range and a strong arm. If you were looking hard enough, you would have seen snippets all over the internet last year of scouts, coaches, ect saying he could play SS at the ML level. Well, he's proving it.
Monday and Im not even remotely excited. So over spring training. lol.
Have fun. I've never been to a ST game. Be cool to see some of the guys who will be in the minors.
That sucks PJ. Come down here and go to one sometime. Its great. Super relaxed. Can talk to the pitchers in the bullpen. Walk around. Lay out. Its a different kind of experience. lol.
ESPN. Cubs at Angels and they are doing a special on Harvey showing his highlights of the spring mid-inning(weird). Said they would take him over Kershaw. lol. Asked why? His temperament.
for mentioning Reynolds as some depth at SS a few times over the offseason. All good though. ;)
If it was in the offseason, I can't deny it is possible. Sure your not confusing him with Tovar???
Z - if you like spring games, see if you can catch a practice or a minor league spring game. Spring is great, but those will turn you back into an 8 year old all over again. And if you're a true nut, catch a GCL game. More fans at a tee ball game than those. No exaggeration... Those are all true fan experiences.
Monday and Im not even remotely excited. So over spring training. lol.
Have fun. I've never been to a ST game. Be cool to see some of the guys who will be in the minors.
That sucks PJ. Come down here and go to one sometime. Its great. Super relaxed. Can talk to the pitchers in the bullpen. Walk around. Lay out. Its a different kind of experience. lol.
Yeah, I keep saying one of these years I will. My father lives north of Orlando and he goes occasionally to a game (Braves?) or Astros when they were in kissimmee - if they were playing the Yankees. He's a Yankees fan.
It just never worked out yet with the kids and school vacations.
for mentioning Reynolds as some depth at SS a few times over the offseason. All good though. ;)
If it was in the offseason, I can't deny it is possible. Sure your not confusing him with Tovar???
Z - if you like spring games, see if you can catch a practice or a minor league spring game. Spring is great, but those will turn you back into an 8 year old all over again. And if you're a true nut, catch a GCL game. More fans at a tee ball game than those. No exaggeration... Those are all true fan experiences.
Hey Sheck! Thanks. Ive been to a couple. I made it up to Savannah once. Ive also gone to couple St. Lucie games. Ive been meaning to make it to a Cyclone game one of the next times Im up in NY as well.
If you ever do make it down, make the two hour drive to St. Lucie. Ive been to see the Braves and Astros countless times. The Astros stadium is terrible. It legit feels like you are going to a high school game. The PA system sucks. Its really just bad. The Braves on the other hand might have the best stadium down here. Unfortunately its almost too nice. Its in Disney World and the stadium is gorgeous but I never feel like I get that real intimate feel I get at some of the others. I enjoyed the Nats game a couple weeks ago which is only 45 minutes from Orlando as well.
He used that configuration 10 times last year, most of which when deGrom was pitching. If he keeps it to 10 and under and he is just experimenting I am fine with it. However, if the opening day lineup has Colon batting 8th and Lagares 9th, I might drive to NY and punch that fool in his face.
ESPN. Cubs at Angels and they are doing a special on Harvey showing his highlights of the spring mid-inning(weird). Said they would take him over Kershaw. lol. Asked why? His temperament.
Moronic. I love Matt Harvey but that is absolutely ridiculous.
Again im fine with it, since i dont think it matters all that much.
Link - ( New Window )
by starting him on opening day.
Looking at the schedule assuming no postponed games the 18th gets you Jacob deGrom but all of the others are Colon, Niese or Gee
Both he and Muno have done well in camp so since Reynolds played yesterday they are giving Muno a shot today. Personally I would have played Reynolds at SS, but Terry Collins cannot let hit his love for Tejada go
Because if Murph is only a few days they prefer Muno
by starting him on opening day.
Sandy can say whatever makes him feel better...this decision is 100% based on money and selling out a couple extra games. Harvey not getting "amped" up is just the GM-speak they are giving the media.
See. We told you when attendance increases we will increase payroll...
Bench
Anthony Recker, C
Tejada, SS/2B
John Mayberry Jr., 1B/OF
Kirk Nieuwenhuis, OF
Eric Campbell, IF/OF
With Muno an outside shot at replacing Campbell
He'll make a good backup/utility player who I hope we don't see a lot of.
TdA, Granderson, Cuddyer, and Colon.
HH you should be proud.
Even the bulk of the bench and bullpen are homegrown.
Carlyle, Gilmartin, Colon, Black, Mayberry, Recker, Cuddyer, Granderson, TDA, Torres
and even Black and TdA came through the Mets minors and never played in the majors for anyone else, so if you expand your definition at all, it's mostly career Mets.
and even Black and TdA came through the Mets minors and never played in the majors for anyone else, so if you expand your definition at all, it's mostly career Mets.
Recker has been with the A's and Cubs. Black pitched for the Pirates in the bigs.
I like having homegrown players, mainly because it implies cost control and if the team is successful signs of a good FO, but I don't mind at all if the core is surrounded by FA's.
Like you Piazza is among my favorite Mets.
John Franco was for a while too (weird a relief pitcher is your favorite player, but some of those teams were devoid of personality - and talent).
I loved the Beltran and Johan signings, even Pedro when he was here.
Straw and Doc were my first two favorite athletes and that didn't work out so well, so as I have aged I've changed my views.
He made Cuddyer look small next to him.
Cuddyer is 6'2 220 pounds.
He made Cuddyer look small next to him.
Cuddyer is 6'2 220 pounds.
Came up as a SS... at 6'5 245
Mark Simon @msimonespn 20m20 minutes ago
Reports are Mets are asking Orioles to pick up $ if they trade for Brian Matusz. If that's true, I wonder how tix sales are doing this yr
If that's an option.
Curtis Granderson RBI single. Eight straight have reached. #Mets 6, #Marlins 2, top 2
Latos looked diminished last year. He may be "done". It's only ST so maybe he figures it out but I purposely avoided him in all fantasy leagues.
Hitters are always way ahead of pitchers. Just the way it is. I wouldn't take much out of it, though Granderson looks notably more "in control" in his ab's. TDA is the only one I'm sort of concerned about.
Wright and Cuddyer just look like their normal healthy selves.
Flores just looks like he's coming into his own.
Its easy to generalize and say bats are usually ahead of pitchers but the Mets are basically leading every single offensive category in baseball this year in spring training. They are doing better than most teams.
HH, I never said I had a problem with the decision. Its a good business move. I could just do without the bullshit reason that EVERYBODY sees through. Thats all.
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20,000 extra fannies in the seats by not pitching Harvey on Opening Day, you wouldn't do it?
HH, I never said I had a problem with the decision. Its a good business move. I could just do without the bullshit reason that EVERYBODY sees through. Thats all.
In this case they really don't have much of an option. I mean what excuse WOULD be "buyable"? There is no chance they would admit it's ticket sales.
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In comment 12199045 Headhunter said:
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20,000 extra fannies in the seats by not pitching Harvey on Opening Day, you wouldn't do it?
HH, I never said I had a problem with the decision. Its a good business move. I could just do without the bullshit reason that EVERYBODY sees through. Thats all.
In this case they really don't have much of an option. I mean what excuse WOULD be "buyable"? There is no chance they would admit it's ticket sales.
I understand that. I get why they are saying it. Its just, for a FO that has a history of talking out of both sides of their mouths, I'm just tired of the obvious lies. Not a huge deal...just something that bugs me that I dont experience with other teams I root for to this magnitude.
I usually go to a dozen games, more when the team is better, and was planning on doing the same again this year. These sorts of tactics lead me to buy last minute tickets on stubhub, rather than buy tickets through the Mets.
pitcher, 5-6-7-8-9 drudgery and hopelessness
* The Mets really do want left-hander Brian Matusz, but they're not picking up all $3.2 million of his contract. The Orioles would have to eat some salary.
http://www.masnsports.com/school-of-roc ... um=twitter
One more weekend of March Madness and then baseball starts with the NHL and NBA playoffs soon to follow. My favorite sports time of the year.
at opening day, with either DeGrom/Harvey pitching
But I don't get why everyone gets so worked up about whether
this is a ploy by the front office for more ticket sales.
An argument can be made that DeGrom has earned the start.
at opening day, with either DeGrom/Harvey pitching
But I don't get why everyone gets so worked up about whether
this is a ploy by the front office for more ticket sales.
An argument can be made that DeGrom has earned the start.
I don't see anyone getting worked up about this. I think its just a turnoff when you are faced with cheap tactics and blatant lies. All for the hefty price of paying the highest ticket prices in MLB. Like I mentioned, I don't see other teams act like this to the degree that the Mets do. No biggie...still enjoy the games.
Can they do that? Technically the Mets would be trading a player they don't control.
I prefer the Mets pick up the salary instead of trading a better player like Ynoa or someone like that.
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The Orioles have Verrett from the Rule V draft .Just pick up the whole contract. And let them keep Verrett without him having to be on the 25 man
Can they do that? Technically the Mets would be trading a player they don't control.
I prefer the Mets pick up the salary instead of trading a better player like Ynoa or someone like that.
In lieu of offering him back to the Mets as would be required if he is not on the 25 man roster the Orioles can agree to trade someone else (or cash) to the Mets in exchange for Verrett so Baltimore could send him down to AAA
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In comment 12199435 Rflairr said:
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The Orioles have Verrett from the Rule V draft .Just pick up the whole contract. And let them keep Verrett without him having to be on the 25 man
Can they do that? Technically the Mets would be trading a player they don't control.
I prefer the Mets pick up the salary instead of trading a better player like Ynoa or someone like that.
In lieu of offering him back to the Mets as would be required if he is not on the 25 man roster the Orioles can agree to trade someone else (or cash) to the Mets in exchange for Verrett so Baltimore could send him down to AAA
Right, but how would the trade be structured? Matusz to the Mets for cash considerations? or could they say "the rights to Logan Verrett". Maybe minor point, but I don't think I've ever seen a trade this way.
Maybe Matusz for "a potential player to be named later if the O's remove Verrett from their major league roster".
LOL.
Can't say I've seen an MLB trade for a players rights. I'd do it if I were the Mets.
They left Verrett unprotected for a reason.
I think the O's would need more than that though, especially if they're eating any salary.
one more thought: Whoever had the idea to hire Long deserves a big bonus.
He isn't. Was borrowed. Crappy 2014 or maybe he would have been.
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lefthander comes in. Chase Hitchingson with a scoreless frame. Didn't know he was in ML camp either.
He isn't. Was borrowed. Crappy 2014 or maybe he would have been.
He was suspended for PEDs wasn't he? I think I remember reading he was lights out in the playoffs though.
Yup. Coors field, Not one of the best right-handed hitters in the game, blah blah blah. They'll see. ;)
1.) Lagares
2.) Granderson
3.) Wright
4.) Duda
5.) Cuddyer
6.) Murphy
7.) Flores
8.) TDA
I don't like TDA in the 8th hole but somebody's got to do it. Kind of worried his aggressive approach might hurt him in the 8 hole with pitchers pitching around him but I think he's smart enough to adjust in time.
What a lineup though.
Baseball is a game of streaks. Cant change it. All these guys will have their slumps this year.
#Rangers released vet LHR Joe Beimel. Was atrocious this spring But track record of success v LHs. Wonder if #Mets would give minor lge look
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Not sure about you guys, but I'm starting to think the Mets should consider dipping into their hitting depth to trade for some pitching.
Again, I know it's only spring training but that's the type of positive trend I'd like to continue to see!
Beimel is 38 years old in 3 weeks and has had arguably the worst spring of any pitcher in all of baseball 3 innings 13 hits 2 walks 11 ER (3 homers allowed)
I highly doubt it means nothing...but maybe you would feel better if they were bottom of the barrel in spring training also.
He was ridiculously effective last year in a very tough division. He was one of the best Loogys in baseball last year period.
He was ridiculously effective last year in a very tough division. He was one of the best Loogys in baseball last year period.
#1 you said Huchingson was so good in the playoffs. I didn't make the claim. I said 2 innings was an insanely small sample size to say he was good
#2 He wasn't "ridiculously effective". He had a 4.18 FIP and didn't miss any bats. You kept stressing how Cotts was injury prone.. Biemel didn't even appear in a game for 3 years. He's more than likely finished. The Rangers dumped him without even having a second lefty. They are trying to trade for one. They are paying Biemel 167,000 to walk away. That's how bad he looked.
Second of all you seriously don't see the analogy between you telling me 2 innings was a small sample to call somebody good(I agreed) and me telling you 3 is too small a sample for you to tell me his bad.
Third. Overall FIP?? Seriously? We are talking about a LOOGY. How did he do against LEFT-HANDERS. Ill tell you. Better than Cotts. A guy who you pined for all offseason who has reverse splits btw.
Geez. I only brought him up as somebody who may be interesting on like a minor league deal. In no way shape or form do I think Joe Beimel is the savior. lol.
I have an affinity for Scott Downs now? I mentioned him and about 5 other pitchers that might be pitchers released soon. That = affinity for? OK.
Second of all you seriously don't see the analogy between you telling me 2 innings was a small sample to call somebody good(I agreed) and me telling you 3 is too small a sample for you to tell me his bad.
Third. Overall FIP?? Seriously? We are talking about a LOOGY. How did he do against LEFT-HANDERS. Ill tell you. Better than Cotts. A guy who you pined for all offseason who has reverse splits btw.
Geez. I only brought him up as somebody who may be interesting on like a minor league deal. In no way shape or form do I think Joe Beimel is the savior. lol.
1. he was ATROCIOUS so yes 3 innings for a guy soon to be 38 is worth noting. He wasn't "iffy" if Matt Harvey's first 3 innings included 13 hits 2 walks 11 ER (3 homers allowed) it would be sheer pandemonium. If Familia or Mejia did that odds are their roster spot would be in question.
2. He was available 2 weeks ago for a reason, he signed a non-guaranteed deal for a reason, and the Rangers are letting him go (despite no other 2nd lefty) for 167,000 for a reason. Clearly they disagree with you.
3. I'm not sure if you are purposely being obtuse or not but this is now the second time I have explained to you that Cotts career numbers are silly to cite as he got hurt and didn't appear in the bigs from age 29 until 33. The past 2 seasons Cotts has appeared in 131 games (aka not "injury prone" as you keep mentioning) with a sparkling 2.93 FIP, 9.3 K/9.
Lefties hit Cotts for a sweet .204 clip in 2013, 2014 they hit him better but his overall line was would still make him one of the best relievers in the Mets pen 3.58 FIP, 8.5 K/9. Excuse for for pointing out an actual good reliever that the Mets could have afforded that they passed on. I guess actual turds are the only ones worth mentioning on here?
He sucks.
"The Rangers have talked to Miami about lefty relief pitching and will continue to scour the market, but is prepared to go with right-hander Shawn Tolleson as a secondary option against left-handed hitters.
Im not going to focus on what we dont have, Banister said. Im going to focus on what we have here and how we can attack left-handed hitters.
Beimel could not attack lefties well in his 17-day audition. He was completely defenseless against right-handers. Lefties were 3-for-6 while right-handed hitters went 10-for-16 (.625)."
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First of all I was pretty much yanking your chain.
Second of all you seriously don't see the analogy between you telling me 2 innings was a small sample to call somebody good(I agreed) and me telling you 3 is too small a sample for you to tell me his bad.
Third. Overall FIP?? Seriously? We are talking about a LOOGY. How did he do against LEFT-HANDERS. Ill tell you. Better than Cotts. A guy who you pined for all offseason who has reverse splits btw.
Geez. I only brought him up as somebody who may be interesting on like a minor league deal. In no way shape or form do I think Joe Beimel is the savior. lol.
1. he was ATROCIOUS so yes 3 innings for a guy soon to be 38 is worth noting. He wasn't "iffy" if Matt Harvey's first 3 innings included 13 hits 2 walks 11 ER (3 homers allowed) it would be sheer pandemonium. If Familia or Mejia did that odds are their roster spot would be in question.
2. He was available 2 weeks ago for a reason, he signed a non-guaranteed deal for a reason, and the Rangers are letting him go (despite no other 2nd lefty) for 167,000 for a reason. Clearly they disagree with you.
3. I'm not sure if you are purposely being obtuse or not but this is now the second time I have explained to you that Cotts career numbers are silly to cite as he got hurt and didn't appear in the bigs from age 29 until 33. The past 2 seasons Cotts has appeared in 131 games (aka not "injury prone" as you keep mentioning) with a sparkling 2.93 FIP, 9.3 K/9.
Lefties hit Cotts for a sweet .204 clip in 2013, 2014 they hit him better but his overall line was would still make him one of the best relievers in the Mets pen 3.58 FIP, 8.5 K/9. Excuse for for pointing out an actual good reliever that the Mets could have afforded that they passed on. I guess actual turds are the only ones worth mentioning on here?
Lol.
1.) Yes he was bad in three innings. Still doesn't change the fact that he was good against lefties last year as a LOOGY for the WHOLE season and we are talking about a minor league deal here.
2.) He was available two weeks ago like Coke and a million other LOOGYS.
3.) Find where I am saying Cotts is injury prone once again? Huh? I haven't mentioned him being injury prone at all except one time a while back because he was for a while. Nice job going back to 2013 to prove your point. Beimel was better than Cotts last year against Lefties. Period. Thats my only point. Personally, I don't like either of them. And if my choices are Cotts for 3 million or Beimel for nothing yes I might think about. Personally, II think they both suck.
They weren't likely to keep him? Since when? They were hoping to pair him with Claudio and currently claim they won't even have a second lefty (yes have spoken to the Marlins about both Dunn and Hand). They wanted Beimel to be their second lefty. it didn't work out. They didn't give away 167,000 for 2 weeks just "for fun".
Most of these guys released are going to be junk(might be interested in them on minor league deals) but maybe a Freidrich or somebody like that becomes available. Most of these vets aren't worth taking up a spot that could go to Alvarez or Gilmartin though.
And Matusz isn't that great either. Sorry. Not for 3 million + prospects.
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Beimel was thought to be a likely target as somebody that was going to be released long before his bad three innings. The Rangers were almost never expected to keep him unless he WOWed them.
They weren't likely to keep him? Since when? They were hoping to pair him with Claudio and currently claim they won't even have a second lefty (yes have spoken to the Marlins about both Dunn and Hand). They wanted Beimel to be their second lefty. it didn't work out. They didn't give away 167,000 for 2 weeks just "for fun".
Ive read for weeks now Beimel was a possible release candidate when teams were trimming down to 25. He was signed weeks ago? Oh wow. 167,000? Just about every player invited to camp on a minor league deal will make at least that if they get called up for even one game.
According to Harper, Collins has been more vocal than usual this spring, either expressing frustration with the roster (left-handed relievers), disagreeing with Alderson or not being on the same page with his front office, such as seeming unaware of elbow issues (Zack Wheeler), potential surgeries (Josh Edgin) and demotions (Noah Syndegraard).
(In season gotta believe Geren would get the job)
Now that we've decided to roll with Collins, I agree with Dan that it's hard to see him getting fired in-season unless things go horribly bad.
2. Control - Sandy is not a huge believer in the manager being a critical piece of the team, and he wasn't looking to give someone more autonomy with the roster than whatever Collins has (which isn't very much). Even a more outspoken type like Backman would takeaway some element of control just by virtue of personality.
3. Loyalty - it seemed like a nice idea to give Collins one more chance since he's never truly had a roster with a chance to compete.
Regardless, i'm not a huge believer in managers making a big difference, but the "outspoken" version of Terry Collins is the primary reason I don't like him. The vibe I've always gotten from his quotes is the exact opposite of a "no excuses" mentality. The players do seem to play reasonably hard for him though, so hopefully it all works out. If they don't have a better start to season than they've had the last few years I believe he will get canned before Memorial Day.
What is his ceiling? It seems obvious if he stays healthy that he is at minimum a middle of the rotation somewhat better than 500 starter.
Does he have the stuff combined with the command to be really special in the same way we think of our top 3 or 4 (you know who I am talking about) pitching prospects?
On a day-to-day basis, it appears that he's good at talking to players and making sure they are ready to play reach day. A lot of teams go completely into the tank after falling a little bit below .500, and to Collins' credit, the Mets havnt.
On the other hand, I think he's a poor in-game strategist, particularly regarding bullpen usage, and he also is biased toward certain players and plays favorites despite either results or the larger picture dictating a different course. Regarding the latter, it looks like Sandy is willing to step in when necessary, so this might not be too big of a deal.
What is his ceiling? It seems obvious if he stays healthy that he is at minimum a middle of the rotation somewhat better than 500 starter.
Does he have the stuff combined with the command to be really special in the same way we think of our top 3 or 4 (you know who I am talking about) pitching prospects?
Ceiling is yet to be determined. Personally I have very few pitchers I consider "1's" but deGrom looks pretty special. I'd actually take him over Syndergaard or Wheeler (even healthy Wheeler). I wouldn't be blown away if deGrom ends up a top 20-30 starter in all of baseball. I'd say his health/durability will be a major thing to note. I'd argue deGrom is closer to Harvey 2.0 than Thor is deGrom 2.0. I think odds are Thor is 3rd out of that trio.
Joe Maddon would have been a PERFECT fit. He's all about the analytics. Price 100% came into play there. I have 0 doubt
What is his ceiling? It seems obvious if he stays healthy that he is at minimum a middle of the rotation somewhat better than 500 starter.
Does he have the stuff combined with the command to be really special in the same way we think of our top 3 or 4 (you know who I am talking about) pitching prospects?
DeGrom's ceiling IMO is a guy who will get Cy Young votes. His stuff is legitimately nasty and he has 3-4 pitches that he throws at a plus level. Combine that with good control, and you have the makings of an elite starter.
The question mark about him is that he has a very short track record of bigtime minor league success, and outpitched his minors results in MLB. It's a lot to ask him to just pick up where he left off last year and expecting some regression isn't unreasonable.
He's one of the most interesting guys to watch on the team this year. By the time we get to mid-May, we're going to have a lot of valuable information on both Harvey and DeGrom.
#Mets unlikely to pursue Joe Beimel
The team isnt as sure about Vic Black.
Murphy has been nursing a sort right hamstring, while Black has had multiple setbacks due to shoulder tendinitis.
That's what everyone here thought too until he got his chance to pitch. He was something of an afterthought and they were even talking about him as a bullpen arm. What he's done has come as a surprise to plenty.
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For sure Eric. The Mets have one of the most expensive front offices in baseball though. If they felt a manager was the right fit, I'm betting they would spend. As we know, Sandy really didn't want Collins back. We heard all offseason the front office was split, they dragged his re-signing on for weeks. Now we know the players saved his job. That's actually pretty telling that the players think that highly of him. I guess that's his one big selling point.
Joe Maddon would have been a PERFECT fit. He's all about the analytics. Price 100% came into play there. I have 0 doubt
I disagree. Maddon became available AFTER they committed and re-signed Collins. I feel like once they committed to Collins that was it. Now if Maddon was available beforehand and Sandy and the organization had decided not to re-sign Collins?? I absolutely feel Maddon would have been explored. Circumstances and timing had more to do with it then finances IMO.
There is ZERO percent chance the Mets said," We really don't want Collins back and would Really like Maddon, but Oh shucks, we can't afford him." ZERO.
"This trend is largely because of the 2012 Major League Baseball Agreement. The MLB Basic Agreement is the basic rule book for Major League Baseball. It covers everything from uniform regulations to salary requirements. The minimum salary requirement for any player is $500,000. The average salary of MLB managers is believed to be $1,000,000. However, the Basic Agreement does not specifically state how much teams are required to pay their coaching staff."
"Terry Collins, who is going to make $1,000,000 in 2014, has led the New York Mets since 2011. He began his professional career as a shortstop in the Pittsburgh Pirates' minor league system; however he never managed to find a spot on the major league roster. Following a ten year run in the minors, he pursued jobs as a Triple-A manager for various teams before being promoted to the Bullpen coach of the Pirates. Prior to being with the Mets he spent two short terms in the late nineties as the manager of the Houston Astros and the then Anaheim Angels. Collins has an all time record of 653/674. In 2013, his Mets went 74/88."
There is ZERO percent chance the Mets said," We really don't want Collins back and would Really like Maddon, but Oh shucks, we can't afford him." ZERO.
So you believe the Mets were going to shell out 26 million for a manager? 1 for Collins and 25 for Maddon? Okay then.
As for selling extra tickets for Day 2 being a secondary consideration, Alderson said: "There are lots of secondary considerations."
Ticket sales among those?
"Could be," Alderson said with a smile.
"Maddon, whose departure from the Rays last week rocked the baseball world, has agreed to terms to manage the Cubs, two industry sources confirmed. Maddon is expected to rank near the top of Major League Baseballs managerial salary structure. The Angels have Mike Scioscia signed through 2018 on a contract that tops out at $6 million annually, and the Yankees are paying Joe Girardi $4 million per season through 2017."
Suddenly the Mets are spending this kind of money on a manager? lol
What a moronic statement.
Wait. You are claiming Sandy Alderson did not have budget limitations this off-season? Please tell me I'm reading this wrong.
Now that could be a real factor. But if Sandy went to Fred and said " this is the guy, Terry sucks.... We need Maddon". I absolutely believe Fred would sign off. And stop with the 25 million bullshit. He isn't making 25 million dollars in 2015
How many of you agree with ZGiants that Sandy Alderson did not have payroll limitations on him this offseason.
1 for Yes, I agree with ZGiants, he's not limited by Fred Wilpon/finances but his decision was to have one of the lowest payrolls in baseball
2 for no, Sandy absolutely is limited by Fred's payroll limitations
who is saying "prove" anything. You routinely claim the Mets will spend and that "Madoff is over" yet they never do. Your claim is always that Sandy chooses not to. 1. Sandy routinely had a large payroll with superstars in Oakland until the team was sold
2. Who in the WORLD would spend below average amounts of money? Money might not guarantee anything but every GM in baseball would spend more money if given the opportunity.
I would suggest 0.0% writers around the Mets/the league would agree with you.
So to clarify. If Sandy chose to raise the payroll 15-20 million in 2015 he could have but he could have but chose not to? That is your stance?
The payroll is only up 20% by creative NYM math.
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Sucka! Guess they DID spend. Lol
The payroll is only up 20% by creative NYM math.
Not really. That same "creative math" was factored in last year. Up 20 percent is up 20 percent.
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Sucka! Guess they DID spend. Lol
So to clarify. If Sandy chose to raise the payroll 15-20 million in 2015 he could have but he could have but chose not to? That is your stance?
Why 15-20 million?? Maddon is making 15-20 million in 2015??? Lol. This is great!
Mets were at 82 million dollars after departing with Ike(something they were planning on doing all offseason.)
So Sandy Alderson has CHOSEN to spend a bottom 3rd payroll in baseball. That is your claim correct? You said it right there.
2. NY Yankees $203,812,506
3. Philadelphia Phillies $180,052,723
4. Boston Red Sox $162,817,411
5. Detroit Tigers $162,228,527
6. LA Angels $155,692,000
7. San Francisco Giants $154,185,878
8. Texas Rangers $136,036,172
9. Washington Nationals $134,704,437
10. Toronto Blue Jays $132,628,700
11. Arizona Diamondbacks $112,688,666
12. Cincinnati Reds $112,390,772
13. St. Louis Cardinals $111,020,360
14. Atlanta Braves $110,897,341
15. Baltimore Orioles $107,406,623
16. Milwaukee Brewers $103,844,806
17. Colorado Rockies $95,832,071
18. Seattle Mariners $92,081,943
19. Kansas City Royals $92,034,345
20. Chicago White Sox $91,159,254
21. San Diego Padres $90,094,196
22. NY Mets $89,051,758
23. Chicago Cubs $89,007,857
24. Minnesota Twins $85,776,500
25. Oakland A's $83,401,400
26. Cleveland Indians $82,534,800
27. Pittsburgh Pirates $78,111,667
28. Tampa Bay Rays $77,062,891
29. Miami Marlins $47,565,400
30. Houston Astros $44,544,174
Want to rethink that bogus 20% Z?
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But agree the Mets didn't want Maddon, but for more than the reason "they just committed to Collins"
But agree the Mets didn't want Maddon, but for more than the reason "they just committed to Collins"
So you believe Sandy Alderson can spend say 110-120 but chooses not to?
Well Parnell specifically would be a no-brainer. An almost 30 reliever that is a pending FA that we have no idea what he looks like upon return.
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Is 1
But agree the Mets didn't want Maddon, but for more than the reason "they just committed to Collins"
So you believe Sandy Alderson can spend say 110-120 but chooses not to?
I know I'm in the massive mi Keith. But I 110% believe that to be true. Yes.
@NYPost_Mets
Mets interest in Orioles lefty Matusz hasn't gone beyond scouting stage. Source called "incorrect" that players and $$$ have been discussed.
Matusz is having a great spring so far. 10.1 innings 7 hits 0 walks 10 k's (as a starter)
Guess not.
Answer - Cuddyer's salary, which more or less equals what we accounted towards CY and Ike on opening day last year. Don't care about any other numbers, they don't show any change in operations or management investment.
Guess not.
He's furiously scouring the internet looking for something to help prove his point...please hold.
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In what reality is that 20%?
Mets were at 82 million dollars after departing with Ike(something they were planning on doing all offseason.)
Even if 82 is correct - thought it doesn't seem to be, but for the sake of argument we'll go with it - the payroll went up 12 million to 94, which equals 15% increase, not 20%
Btw Rubin 100 percent had the payroll for the Mets at 85.6 at the start of 2014(before the Ike trade which brought us down to 82) and he has that same exact comparison/payroll at 100.6 million now. I'll be happy to provide links when I get back to the office.
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Come on dude. Read the thread. The topic at hand isn't that the Mets can spend unlimitedly like drunkin sailers, the topic is if they identified Maddon as their number one choice, decided against Terry, if they can afford his 5 million. The answer is yes, they could.
Adding that 4.5 million is creative math! Their current payroll is around 96. Let's see what they actually spend re DL stints, etc.
In other words - did the opening day payroll of 85 million in 2014 also include that 4.5 million? I suspect not.
The comparison needs to be apples to apples!
Either way, it's not 20% year-over-year...
Even if these numbers were accurate (which they are not, more on that below) can you please explain why it matters that the payroll increased due to arbitration raises? That's a serious question because to me, citing a raise in payroll as an argument is trying to tout an increase in resources towards winning. How does paying Dan Murphy a fairer amount given his past performance in any way a sign of an increased investment in the team? IMO it's a disingenuous argument because they are basically just trying to take credit for a cost of doing business raise. They chose the contracted raises they negotiated with Wright/Granderson/etc.
Now as far as why those numbers aren't accurate. 1 of them is counting an estimated "season long contingency", 1 of them is not. That's a 10M+ swing, and obviously the bulk of the % change. The article below has their 2014 final payroll at 92.9M and Adam Rubin's article 1 month ago had their OD payroll at 100.7M, counting 4.5M towards contingency vs. any costs that they would incur between now and the final payroll tabulation.
Also I vote that the Mets don't have the money to spend.
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Not true. This link has all player salaries for 2014. Add it up, it equals approx 85. ie, there is NO 4.5 added in. And yes, you absolutely need count Ike.
Again, it needs to be apples to apples. Snapshot needs to be the same - opening day salary in 2014, and 2015.
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Haha! So it's really more like 82 because you want to arbitrarily pull out Ike's salary, since it fits your narrative?
LOL...
In other words, you only want to use your source, and no one else can use theirs (of which there are MULTIPLE), because it fits your argument.
There is nothing "clear about it. But in your mind it is "case closed".
LMAO!!
The Mets are still not even in the top 20 in payroll despite charing some of the most expensive ticket prices in the league (which they are then forced to offer last minute discounts on). Until our payroll gets into the top 10, I don't see how someone can not think ownership is broke.
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82 to 100. Especially now that we are keeping Gee.
Haha! So it's really more like 82 because you want to arbitrarily pull out Ike's salary, since it fits your narrative?
LOL...
I said without Ike from the beginning since it was Sandy's objective to trade him all along. But how about this. If we really want to make it apples to apples we'll wait until the third week of the season in which by that time it will undoubtedly be up over 20 percent in a year's time. Deal?
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Payroll figures from wherever you like. I really don't care. I showed you who the biggest Mets writer in the know configured his math on the 25 man roster both years which clearly shows a 20% difference. That's where I got it from. Case closed.
In other words, you only want to use your source, and no one else can use theirs (of which there are MULTIPLE), because it fits your argument.
There is nothing "clear about it. But in your mind it is "case closed".
LMAO!!
Yup. Nobody has a better pulse of the Mets finances then Rubin. Sorry. Even Dan would agree with that.
Agreed.
Seconded.
A.) Keep a 10-15 million dollar buffer in tow for when tragedy strikes or if that perfect need/player became available possibly during a playoff run.
B.). Blow your last dollar on a stop-gap or slight upgrade because you can.
I know which one Sandy would choose.
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Is 1
But agree the Mets didn't want Maddon, but for more than the reason "they just committed to Collins"
So you believe Sandy Alderson can spend say 110-120 but chooses not to?
I just can't believe any Mets fans actually believe this, much less 2 people on this thread. Sandy sounds frustrated to me with his lack of ability to spend with all the jokes he makes about it to the quotes from his recent book.
I think it might have actually made Fred cry that he got so close to $100 mil this offseason, much less 110-120.
I think if money wasn't an issue then Matusz would have already been traded for.
Lowrie smokes one off Alvarez's glove for an infield hit (on a 3-1 pitch)
Rasmus chops one to Duda, who gets the out at 2nd, Rasmus safe at 1st
Villar strikes out swinging on the sweeper
Um. Upgrade over every reliever in the bullpen. Andrew Miller is an ELITE level reliever. It's laughable you would even question adding him being an upgrade to the team. Truly laughable.
Gee and Tejada will make 7.1
Gee and Parnell will make 9
The Mets are better with what they currently have vs. Miller? I beg to differ... STRONGLY so.
Better with
Harvey, deGrom, Colon, Niese, Gee with the current bullpen and Ruben Tejada
or
Harvey, degrom, Colon, Niese, Thor or Matz + Andrew Miller and either Reynolds or Muno?
28 million to sign
Absolutely bizarre to glad hand yourself on something the Mets themselves have openly questioned (and they have yet to be proven wrong!) Wowzas. Even Sandy Alderson questioned Flores at SS. Why not wait until something is actually proven. Also... where does that show I'm a liar? I question Flores being good enough to play every day SS. I'd love to be wrong. That's not called being a liar.
Parnell with his sweet 88-92 mph fb first outing? Should be wonderful.
He was ready in August fool.
If that velocity doesn't bump up Bobby Parnell will not help the 2015 NY Mets let alone in 2-3 weeks time.
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when Matt Harvey would be ready by August of last season? The good old days of ZGiants.
He was ready in August fool.
Haha what? He wasn't even cleared to throw his slider until Feb
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If Parnell makes it back inside a month you aren't posting on BBI for a month right?
Parnell with his sweet 88-92 mph fb first outing? Should be wonderful.
92 in his first simulated appearance in a year. 3 mph off his best season ever. Wow.
"
Matt Harvey threw curveballs and sliders Sunday for the first time since having Tommy John surgery.
He could also have another "first" later this week when he possibly faces hitters. Harvey's rehab has progressed as hoped to this point and he's expected to open the season in the Mets' rotation. General manager Sandy Alderson said recently that Harvey could throw as many as 200 innings should the Mets make the playoffs.
Source: Marc Carig on Twitter
Feb 22 - 12:55 PM"
Kristie Ackert of the New York Daily News reports that Matt Harvey (elbow) will throw three more bullpen sessions before being shut down for the season.
Harvey had declared earlier this season that he wanted to make it back before the end of the year, but as it turns out he won't even throw a pitch at full effort until spring training. ""
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In comment 12201183 DanMetroMan said:
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when Matt Harvey would be ready by August of last season? The good old days of ZGiants.
He was ready in August fool.
Haha what? He wasn't even cleared to throw his slider until Feb
Warthen and everyone connected to Harvey have said he could have pitched last September had he been in contention. Let's not start this debate again.
Mets general manager Sandy Alderson said Tuesday that Matt Harvey (elbow) might not appear in a game until spring training.
Alderson noted Jeremy Hefner having a setback recently after the Mets might have pushed him into game action a little too quickly.
Source: Adam Rubin on Twitter
Tue, Aug 12, 2014 06:20:00 PM
Instead of admitting you are wrong you will scrounge up some quotes that somehow defend your ridiculous statement.
Link - ( New Window )
And yet he didn't even throw off a mound until August nor did he throw curves or sliders. Matt Harvey was never, ever starting a game last August. Never even 1% possible.
Pitcher TJ date Team Expected return
Tyler Skaggs 8/13/14 LAA 2016
Tyler Chatwood 7/23/14 COL July/August
Bronson Arroyo 7/15/14 ARI July/August
Martin Perez 5/19/14 TEX June/July
Jose Fernandez 5/16/14 MIA June/July
A.J. Griffin 4/30/14 OAK June
Ivan Nova 4/29/14 NYY June/July
Josh Johnson 4/24/14 SD May/June
Matt Moore 4/22/14 TB June
Patrick Corbin 3/25/14 ARI June
Jarrod Parker 3/24/14 OAK June
Brandon Beachy 3/21/14 LAD June/July
Kris Medlen 3/18/14 KC June/July
Notice how NONE return in 10 months as you are suggesting Harvey would have. Not a single one.
Rewinding the calendar to look at big league pitchers who had Tommy John surgery from February-May of 2013, its notable just how few of them actually provided significant help to big league teams last season. Gavin Floyd returned from May 2013 surgery to throw nine solid starts last season and Eric OFlaherty (May 21, 2013 surgery) was reasonably effective in 20 innings late last year with the As."
PS for those who didn't click on hsi link Warthen said he thought Harvey could have pitched the end of last season, no mention of August.
Really? Please name the starters who have come back in 11-12 months (This would have been 10 months post surgery, harvey had surgery in October, August is 10 months later) Please name the SP who have come back in 10 months from TJ thanks!
Parnell is a starting pitcher? When was this? 5 seasons ago. Show me the starting pitchers who returned in 10-11 months. Thanks in advance.
Thanks Eric
Wait... literally 100% of the Mets fans on this site would agree you are over the top optimistic. Some may "like it" but you are ONLY positive about every single aspect of the team. The way you talk about the Mets lack of holes they should win 95 games this season.
None of what you said has anything to do with Niller not being an upgrade over Gilmartin. Lol. What a fucking idiot to make that leap.
Depends if you value being closer or seeing more of the field
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argued you "won" an argument where your opinion was Sandy decided not to spend money but could. You also absolutely claimed Miller would not represent much of an upgrade given how good the Mets pen is. I explained you quite nicely in fact that the Mets pen was 25th last year in terms of fWAR, you said Steamer hates the Mets, I again explained (politely) that the rankings I referred to were the Mets ACTUAL 2014 rankings, not projections or opinions. You just ignored that.
None of what you said has anything to do with Niller not being an upgrade over Gilmartin. Lol. What a fucking idiot to make that leap.
Gilmartin wasn't even here when Eric advocated the Mets going for Miller. Being scared of a bidding war with the Yankees is an embarrassment (especially if Sandy really can spend whatever he chooses). Not a single fan should take solace in "well I wouldn't bid against the Yankees" as a valid excuse for not TRYING for a player.
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On the team that don't suck or are likely big contributors. Shocker. Yup. Guess I'm a Pollyanna lol
Wait... literally 100% of the Mets fans on this site would agree you are over the top optimistic. Some may "like it" but you are ONLY positive about every single aspect of the team. The way you talk about the Mets lack of holes they should win 95 games this season.
Sounds kind of like 100 percent of the Mets fans on this site would agree Sandy couldn't afford Maddon? Lol. Riiiight. I certainly am optimistic but I'm realistic about the Mets and most of their players as well. And more of my predictions have come true then not. The whole basis of my optimism was the mets being good around this year/target. I guess I was wrong though...
Disagree
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which section is better: Delta Silver or Ceasars Gold?
Depends if you value being closer or seeing more of the field
Summer day game. Would assume you roast in Delta Silver but can take some pretty decent photos, where Cesars offers some shade but further back (how they announcers view the game).
Z, is the gist of what you're getting at that you believe that the Mets do not have any financial restrictions in regards to payroll for the 2015 season?
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In comment 12201302 DanMetroMan said:
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argued you "won" an argument where your opinion was Sandy decided not to spend money but could. You also absolutely claimed Miller would not represent much of an upgrade given how good the Mets pen is. I explained you quite nicely in fact that the Mets pen was 25th last year in terms of fWAR, you said Steamer hates the Mets, I again explained (politely) that the rankings I referred to were the Mets ACTUAL 2014 rankings, not projections or opinions. You just ignored that.
None of what you said has anything to do with Niller not being an upgrade over Gilmartin. Lol. What a fucking idiot to make that leap.
Gilmartin wasn't even here when Eric advocated the Mets going for Miller. Being scared of a bidding war with the Yankees is an embarrassment (especially if Sandy really can spend whatever he chooses). Not a single fan should take solace in "well I wouldn't bid against the Yankees" as a valid excuse for not TRYING for a player.
Your too stupid to even see what I'm saying. Your saying I didn't think miller would be an upgrade over ANY reliever. So that second LOOGY if it's Gilmartin would be to what your referring to. Ok let's call him Rice then at the time of the argument. God you are a moron
Instead of a 1% chance of you acknowledging the numbers are what they are, you bring up things like the 30 total innings some turds like Farnsworth pitched. Adding a reliever or 2 isn't all that expensive, you are of the opinion that Sandy can spend what he wants, if that's the case you would really truly advocate not bringing another arm in? If Sandy can spend what he wants what does adding a 4-5-6 million dollar reliever restrict you from doing (your stated concern regarding in-season additions)?
If you think the pen has a chance to be very good.. what is the downside to adding more, adding "insurance" to this potential "very good pen"?
Z, is the gist of what you're getting at that you believe that the Mets do not have any financial restrictions in regards to payroll for the 2015 season?
Where the hell do you get that from??? We are talking about adding 5 fucking million dollars! Was this whole thing about being too broke to add Maddon if they wanted him or not??
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In comment 12201305 Bobby Humphrey's Earpad said:
Quote:
which section is better: Delta Silver or Ceasars Gold?
Depends if you value being closer or seeing more of the field
Summer day game. Would assume you roast in Delta Silver but can take some pretty decent photos, where Cesars offers some shade but further back (how they announcers view the game).
Like I said, really depends what you prefer. When I go to a game (assuming it's no longer cold) I prefer to be in the sun (especially early/late in the season) because it feels more "basebally" and CitiField is pretty chilly in the shade as it is. picture wise you are right, Delta Silver is probably the better bet.
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And for the life of me, I cannot figure out what ZGiants is arguing about here and that's probably also the cause of Dan's head slowly exploding.
Z, is the gist of what you're getting at that you believe that the Mets do not have any financial restrictions in regards to payroll for the 2015 season?
Where the hell do you get that from??? We are talking about adding 5 fucking million dollars! Was this whole thing about being too broke to add Maddon if they wanted him or not??
ZGiants,
You flat out said "Sandy has quotes from this off-season stating we have no financial restrictions" stop trying to use Maddon as a crutch. You are allowed to have this opinion but at least stand up for it. You believe Sandy Alderson chooses to spend less money than the money he is allowed to. If Sandy wanted to spend 20 million more this past off-season he would have been free to do so... correct?
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In comment 12201322 Deloatch's Ghost said:
Quote:
And for the life of me, I cannot figure out what ZGiants is arguing about here and that's probably also the cause of Dan's head slowly exploding.
Z, is the gist of what you're getting at that you believe that the Mets do not have any financial restrictions in regards to payroll for the 2015 season?
Where the hell do you get that from??? We are talking about adding 5 fucking million dollars! Was this whole thing about being too broke to add Maddon if they wanted him or not??
ZGiants,
You flat out said "Sandy has quotes from this off-season stating we have no financial restrictions" stop trying to use Maddon as a crutch. You are allowed to have this opinion but at least stand up for it. You believe Sandy Alderson chooses to spend less money than the money he is allowed to. If Sandy wanted to spend 20 million more this past off-season he would have been free to do so... correct?
You see this why you are such a fucking little bitch. I have ALREADY clarified this for you numerous times. You ask for clarification constantly and I constantly give it to you. You know EXACTLY where I stand on this yet you play dumb to give yourself a crutch in a side argument.
Go back to the beginning of the argument. This was strictly about Maddon. Dan said there was no way we could sign him because of finances even if he was our number one target and we fired Collins. I disagreed and said we could. The end.
Ive already done this a million times. You continually think the Mets are at their max and you are continually wrong. You swore we couldn't sign a Cuddyer until we traded a Murphy or a Colon. WRONG. Sandy says we have some flexibility and I believe him. Im pretty sure they are comfortable with the payroll where its at actually. There aren't any glaring holes to fill either though. Im pretty sure there is a 10-15 million dollar cushion. There certainly is 5 million for Maddon if the Mets thought he was the game changer you believe.
Basically in a nutshell I thought If the Mets had already parted with Collins when Madden was available, and if Sandy targeted Maddon as "the guy"(in other words he REALLY wanted him) The Wilpons had the 5 million available.
Dan says no. He think s that when Maddon was available, the entire front office was in hysterics crying in their offices about Maddon because they wanted him so bad if only they could afford him.
Again. I have literally broke this down for you in practically essay format numerically going through point by point. Maybe you were dropped on your head and have legit memory issues. It wasn't that long ago and Ive done it MANY times. If you do, that would explain a lot and I take back most of what I have said.
For the last time. Things are better in Mets land. Do they have an unlimited payroll? NO. Can they start spending like drunkin sailers?? NO. Are they at a point to where they have a little flexibility? YES. Do they have a buffer if the perfect player/fit/need were available?? YES. That doesn't mean they have no constraints. Of course they still do. Until we start filling the seats again and winning that is going to be an issue. 5 Million for Maddon is well within that buffer if he was the PERFECT fit for this organization and the entire front office green lighted him.
Back it up then. Im sure Ive been wrong about a couple things here and there(how could you not with so many players and factors) but who was I SOOOO optimistic about that has failed miserably?
Quote:
really trying to understand you. Didn't you flat out say Sandy could spend more but chooses not to? You claim he doesn't want to "spend every penny he can" (which suggests you do agree there are payroll limitation) but you also cite him saying the financial limitations are gone. So which is it?
Again. I have literally broke this down for you in practically essay format numerically going through point by point. Maybe you were dropped on your head and have legit memory issues. It wasn't that long ago and Ive done it MANY times. If you do, that would explain a lot and I take back most of what I have said.
For the last time. Things are better in Mets land. Do they have an unlimited payroll? NO. Can they start spending like drunkin sailers?? NO. Are they at a point to where they have a little flexibility? YES. Do they have a buffer if the perfect player/fit/need were available?? YES. That doesn't mean they have no constraints. Of course they still do. Until we start filling the seats again and winning that is going to be an issue. 5 Million for Maddon is well within that buffer if he was the PERFECT fit for this organization and the entire front office green lighted him.
I'll ignore the personal attacks and insults because I'm more interested in... so they can't spend whatever they want. No "spending like drunken sailors"
Can Sandy spend 10 million more than he has? 20 million more? 30 million? In your mind how much more is Sandy "allowed" to spend? I'm honestly curious.
We are the exact same age, and as always ,you start with the Morons, ect. long before it escalates.
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also resort to name calling with the quickness. It's very strange for someone I believe to be a grown man. If you are a kid I take that back.
We are the exact same age, and as always ,you start with the Morons, ect. long before it escalates.
I really wasn't trying to be funny with the grown man stuff. Scouts honor. Just no idea how old some people on here are.
I would consider a 10 win difference(off my projections) as considerable improvement. Especially since the majority of this team is still young and improving. In fact the youth is the only thing holding this team back and we can't do anything about that. They will mature naturally. If we don't make a single addition in 2016 my prediction will be 90+ opposed to 85-90 in 2015.
Again. We aren't talking about philosophies on what managers are worth. Dan said if we WANTED him and deemed he was worth that salary, the Wilpons would have said no because they were broke.
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In comment 12201369 DanMetroMan said:
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also resort to name calling with the quickness. It's very strange for someone I believe to be a grown man. If you are a kid I take that back.
We are the exact same age, and as always ,you start with the Morons, ect. long before it escalates.
I really wasn't trying to be funny with the grown man stuff. Scouts honor. Just no idea how old some people on here are.
We actually had this discussion before one night years back. Im pretty sure you, me, and Arc are the same age. All around 34/35. My memory is usually REALLY good ;) but I could be off a little.
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they aren't much better. They may end up being "much better" but at this point they are a 79 win team (last years total) with some optimism for the season. You say things like you expected 20+ homers from 6 guys, how the bullpen is excellent, how the rotation is "2nd best" in baseball (our previous nationals discussion), how each and every guy who had a bad year last year will bounce back and none will regress. You want to give credit for things that haven't even happened yet. Wilmer proving to be an asset at SS, Monell being a "great" find, the team being "much" better.
I would consider a 10 win difference(off my projections) as considerable improvement. Especially since the majority of this team is still young and improving. In fact the youth is the only thing holding this team back and we can't do anything about that. They will mature naturally. If we don't make a single addition in 2016 my prediction will be 90+ opposed to 85-90 in 2015.
Again, not being snarky... I meant they aren't much better unless they actually win more games. They aren't on 3/24 any "better" (nor are the other teams in baseball). If they win 10 more games than 2014 then they clearly were much better, if they win even 6-7 more games then they were much better. Right now it's hope, optimism but they aren't currently "much better".
Obviously not calling you out, just responding to your ask.
I do believe things are better and they have some flexibility. If I HAD to take a stab at it(and of course I don't know the real number) I would say a 10-15 million dollar buffer is fair for the absolutely right player/perfect fit addition. Everything Sandy has said has pointed to this.
Where the hell were we getting 200 million for Cano from?? Come on.
I just turned 34.
Obviously not calling you out, just responding to your ask.
Right but this a perfect example of everyone thinking its ridiculous at the time but everyone forgetting about it in a year after I'm proven right. Dan said If the Mets bullpen was in the top 12/13 he would concede he was wrong. Im betting it is. In fact I'd have them right around 12/13 actually.
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In comment 12201377 DanMetroMan said:
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they aren't much better. They may end up being "much better" but at this point they are a 79 win team (last years total) with some optimism for the season. You say things like you expected 20+ homers from 6 guys, how the bullpen is excellent, how the rotation is "2nd best" in baseball (our previous nationals discussion), how each and every guy who had a bad year last year will bounce back and none will regress. You want to give credit for things that haven't even happened yet. Wilmer proving to be an asset at SS, Monell being a "great" find, the team being "much" better.
I would consider a 10 win difference(off my projections) as considerable improvement. Especially since the majority of this team is still young and improving. In fact the youth is the only thing holding this team back and we can't do anything about that. They will mature naturally. If we don't make a single addition in 2016 my prediction will be 90+ opposed to 85-90 in 2015.
Again, not being snarky... I meant they aren't much better unless they actually win more games. They aren't on 3/24 any "better" (nor are the other teams in baseball). If they win 10 more games than 2014 then they clearly were much better, if they win even 6-7 more games then they were much better. Right now it's hope, optimism but they aren't currently "much better".
Obviously we are basing our optimism off of perceived expectations.
Time. To. Move. On.
Best post in this thread. I literally just laughed out loud. I really hope this team wins this year and we can all look back at these threads for the entertainment value they truly hold.
Time. To. Move. On.
Blasphemy. No moving on until opening day.
Meh. Again though. The pen expectations is riding on the natural improvement of our youth. Thats hard to predict. Just because Familia might only improve x, doesn't mean we should be out scouring for improvements on him. Much of the roster is in the same boat. We are depending on the youth in almost all areas of the team. Its not like this is some old team on its downside that you should absolutely add whatever piece you can now. This is the start of MANY years of winning. Some of the talent isn't even here yet.
Go get some Sunny D and a Hot Pocket...its a long season.
Go get some Sunny D and a Hot Pocket...its a long season.
Haha. Im just waiting for your next opportunity to come at me too lol ,but you've been coming around on me big time lately.
That's a good question. If I had to pick 1 reliever I trust most going into this season it's probably Familia. But I agree it's hugely worrisome to not have any proven commodities. We all know how inflated the prices get on high end relivers via trade, like Miller last year.
Well Edgin looked pretty damn good and LOOGYS are a dime of dozen so I definitely had him down. Mejia and Familia were down. We disagree on Black but I had him as a lock. After we picked up Parnell I knew he was a lock at some point( at least for a spot) I knew we would have a long reliever and were covered there by Gee/Montero/ect. Torres has been an everything man has held value for that alone. So which spot was I looking for? I always maintained a better LOOGY but the pen is pretty full. Still have interesting arms in AAA and still have the wherewithal to make a trade later.
Miller, Duke, Cotts, Robertson, Chamberlain, Gregerson, Romo, K-Rod, Neshek, Grilli, Hochevar, Janssen were all available (and that's not the entire list of solid arms). So if the pen falters the Mets can only blame themselves.
Miller, Duke, Cotts, Robertson, Chamberlain, Gregerson, Romo, K-Rod, Neshek, Grilli, Hochevar, Janssen were all available (and that's not the entire list of solid arms). So if the pen falters the Mets can only blame themselves.
I guess Ive already seen enough of the youth(granted small sample) to know they will be good enough though. Its not like we are just throwing 7 unknowns in the pen and saying go get em kids! Most have all experienced some level of success at the majors with only more upside. I don't see it as a dire need yet for sure. Id rather roll with Mejia/Familia types and have them grow at the big league level then sign a couple vets and have Mejia and Familia in AAA for insurance. That doesn't make much sense to me.
Mejia
Familia
Parnell
Black
Montero
Torres
and a lefty. (who was originally pencilled in as Edgin)
Just because Parnell and Black might be banged up for a week or two, doesn't mean the Mets A plan was to go with Carlyle.
WOOO HOOOO
I AM the 1% - he admitted being wrong about Flores weight ;)
"you won't fine me gloating", yet in a prior post you bragged that 99% of what you predicted is coming to fruition.
LOL...
z is never wrong
About anything
Ever
The mets totally have money
Etc
Etc
Rashad Jennings was on hand to throw out the first pitch today. Article and video below.
Rashad Jennings Throws Out First Pitch - ( New Window )
I am only 30!
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I really am not the type to hold people to prior statements, ect. It only comes out once in a while in these ugly battles with Dan or maybe Phi. If we are winning and I am right, I absolutely want to share that with everyone here. We've all been through hell with this team and we all deserve this young exciting team. You won't find me gloating although Im sure Ill feel the wrath of many if the Mets are bad this year. lol. Thats fine. Ive been bold enough to put myself out there and go against the grain for quite some time now. I deserve it if Im wrong.
"you won't fine me gloating", yet in a prior post you bragged that 99% of what you predicted is coming to fruition.
LOL...
I was referring to many of the things we bitched about in years past(mostly involving the Mets turning it around and being good again). It was a general comment. I was only saying Im not going to make it miserable for individual people and go after them over every little thing. We all have opinions. Its all good.
Source told me recently. Now looks semi-official: Mets' lo-A affiliate--Savannah Sand Gnats--ceasing operations 10/1, moving to Columbia, SC
The fact that its a big hitters park I would imagine would be good for the hitters in a number of ways. If players are struggling at the MLB and head down to AAA for a short stint(they are likely to regain their confidence and get back in a groove there (see TDA, Flores, MDD last year) It might give guys like Nimmo, Herrera, and Plawecki confidence as well which is good for kids that young.
As for the pitching. I know many will disagree with this. Many of these fireballers are used to getting by on their stuff. Yeah it sucks watching Syndergaard, Harvey, ect get beat up there but wouldn't that force them to focus on there offspeed pitches and other offerings? It may end up forcing them to get better.
Who knows? Of course you could look at it the other way too.
As for the pitching. I know many will disagree with this. Many of these fireballers are used to getting by on their stuff. Yeah it sucks watching Syndergaard, Harvey, ect get beat up there but wouldn't that force them to focus on there offspeed pitches and other offerings? It may end up forcing them to get better. .
In theory, it makes sense. In reality the PCL is the worst possible league to fine tune your off speed pitches. Altitude sucks for learning to move your ball.
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.
As for the pitching. I know many will disagree with this. Many of these fireballers are used to getting by on their stuff. Yeah it sucks watching Syndergaard, Harvey, ect get beat up there but wouldn't that force them to focus on there offspeed pitches and other offerings? It may end up forcing them to get better. .
In theory, it makes sense. In reality the PCL is the worst possible league to fine tune your off speed pitches. Altitude sucks for learning to move your ball.
I guess your right. Im just thinking a hard slider will still slide in short distances and a changeup is still a changeup. Im thinking the fastballs get hit harder and go further than anywhere else by far. Good point though.
Sandy on the pen: "I'm always worried about the pen. We're auditioning everybody in a #Mets uniform." @MLBNetworkRadio
Adam Rubin ✔ @AdamRubinESPN
The Mets pledged to governor to keep the Double-A team long term in New York State. Believe it was in exchange for stadium improvements.
Very damning article/study saying TJ is FAR less successful than people realize. (Not in reference to Harvey who looks beast) but in general.
Who did Harvey's tommy john? Was it someone like Andrews or did he use the Mets' team doctor, Altchek? Do we know who Hefner used?
"Thanks in part to Jon Roegeles excellent Tommy John surgery database, Baseball America looked at every major league pitcher (defined as a pitcher with 20-plus innings pitched in the year of or year before his elbow injury) who had Tommy John surgery from 2009-May 2013 and how he fared after surgery.
The takeaways? If youre a fringy reliever, Tommy John surgery is very bad for your career prognosis.
But probably just as importantly, its unrealistic to think that all or even most of the 20 major league pitchers who had Tommy John surgery early last season will return to action with no troubles this season. In recent years, the path back to the majors has been more troublesome and the timetable longer than might have been expected.
Rewinding the calendar to look at big league pitchers who had Tommy John surgery from February-May of 2013, its notable just how few of them actually provided significant help to big league teams last season. Gavin Floyd returned from May 2013 surgery to throw nine solid starts last season and Eric OFlaherty (May 21, 2013 surgery) was reasonably effective in 20 innings late last year with the As.
But those are the only real success stories. Of the eight big league pitchers who had Tommy John early enough in 2013 to be thought of as capable of helping teams in 2014, those were the only two who actually proved to be productive big league pitchers last season."
I think the Mets would have to be happy with 2-3 months of Wheeler working his way back to normalcy in 2016 and a "full" 2017 season. Given Harvey's timeline (and the fact Wheeler is having more work done) gotta assume the Mets are extra cautious. No setbacks probably see Wheeler at some point in July. Fingers crossed.
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In Manhattan, Zack Wheeler is due to undergo Tommy John surgery Wednesday. In addition to replacing the fully torn ulnar collateral ligament, team doctor David Altchek will remove a calcium buildup and repair a damaged tendon in the right elbow. The additional repair work should not impact Wheelers recovery time. He hopes to be back in the majors about June 1, 2016.
Who did Harvey's tommy john? Was it someone like Andrews or did he use the Mets' team doctor, Altchek? Do we know who Hefner used?
Harvey used Andrews. The Mets allow the pitchers to pick their surgeon. All kidding about the Mets doctors aside, Altcheck is extremely well thought of.
He is still going to be a HUGE part of our future. The guy's arm has been bothering him since high school. He's had messed up tendons and build-up in there for who knows how long. He's going to come back feeling like a million bucks. In the meantime this gives us a perfect opportunity to work Syndergaard and Matz in towards the end of 2015. It's all good.
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Harvey seems like he's borderline obsessive with wanting to be considered great. He'd probably try to come back if he was missing a leg.
Very damning article/study saying TJ is FAR less successful than people realize. (Not in reference to Harvey who looks beast) but in general.
Do they have names of players who struggled or failed to come back, reinjured the elbow, or is this including the litany of no-namers who never make it to the majors.
Recently it seems like a lot of successes - Strasburg, Harvey looks good so far, Lackey was revitalized, Wainwright, maybe more.
He's considered one of the best sports doctors in the world. Other teams send their players to him.
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In comment 12202119 Ten Ton Hammer said:
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Harvey seems like he's borderline obsessive with wanting to be considered great. He'd probably try to come back if he was missing a leg.
Very damning article/study saying TJ is FAR less successful than people realize. (Not in reference to Harvey who looks beast) but in general.
Do they have names of players who struggled or failed to come back, reinjured the elbow, or is this including the litany of no-namers who never make it to the majors.
Recently it seems like a lot of successes - Strasburg, Harvey looks good so far, Lackey was revitalized, Wainwright, maybe more.
PJ,
The study looked at EVERY pitcher who underwent TJ.
Heres a look major league pitchers who had Tommy John surgery in 2012 and how many MLB innings they have thrown since
Pitcher MLB IP Since TJ
Charlie Morton 273
Drew Hutchison 185
Mike Pelfrey 176
Danny Duffy 174
Josh Tomlin 106
Scott Baker 96
Joakim Soria 68
Brian Wilson 62
Joe Beimel 45
Neftali Feliz 35
Brandon Beachy 30
Randy Wolff 26
Felipe Paulino 18
Blake Wood 7
Luis Perez 5
Kyle Drabek 5
Juan Oviedo 0
Todd Coffey 0
Daniel Hudson 0
David Herndon 0
Marcos Mateo 0
Cory Luebke 0
George Sherrill 0
Ryan Madson 0
Joey Devine 0
Jose Ceda 0
Sergio Escalona 0
Relievers Jonny Venters and Joel Hanrahan have both needed additional Tommy John surgeries without ever getting back on a big league mound. Starter Chad Billingsley is also looking at a rehab that has stretched into a second season and is trying to come back with the Phillies.
Astros righthander Alex White made 20 starts with the Rockies in 2012 before his elbow injury. He spent all of last year in Triple-A. Cardinals righthander Jason Motte lost his closer job when he had Tommy John surgery, but he also lost his effectiveness in his mid-2014 return. Compared to his three seasons before surgery, Mottes ERA jumped, his walk and hit rate skyrocketed and his strikeout rate cratered in his 25 innings with St. Louis last season.
The results for big league pitchers with 2012 elbow surgeries are better, but not by much. For relievers who were not pitching in prominent roles before their injuries, a year off often is enough to provide the difference between earning big league paychecks and ending up on the outside looking in.
Among relievers with 2012 surgeries, Luis Perez, Jose Ceda, David Herndon, Sergio Escalona, Marcos Mateo, George Sherrill, Blake Wood and Joey Devine all lost their grip on big league jobs because of their elbow. Escalona, Devine, Ceda, Sherrill and Herndon have pitched very little at all in the minors or majors in the two years since their surgeries.
Of the 34 big league pitchers to have Tommy John surgery from January 2012-May 2013, 15 (44 percent) have thrown 20 innings in the big leagues since their surgery. Look at pitchers who had surgery in 2012, and so have had now two full seasons since their surgeryjust 12 of 27 (44 percent) have logged even 20 big league innings in the two seasons since their surgery. Eleven of them (40 percent) have yet to throw a big league pitch post-surgery. And only 12 of those 27 are on 40-man rosters during spring training this year.
Looking at 73 pitchers (20 or more innings pitched in MLB the year of or year before their surgery) who had Tommy John surgery from the start of 2009 to mid-2013, 62 percent have thrown 20 or more big league innings since their injury and 19 (26 percent) have yet to throw another big league pitch.
There are plenty of success stories, obviously, and Venters, Billingsley, Hanrahan, Hudson and many others all are working to prove that their big league returns are just delayed, not destroyed.
But when looking at the large wave of pitchers rehabbing from 2014 Tommy John surgeries, if history is any indication, not all of them will be returning to their pre-injury form, especially this year.
That's fine. I wasn't even responding to your sentiment. It was a general feeling I have about Wheeler of my own. And while I agree it would be stupid to pencil Wheeler into the rotation for 2016, my gut tells me he will be a huge part of the 2016 season. While not as outwardly obvious, I feel Wheeler has much of the same fire and competitiveness Harvey has and will come back stronger.
Maybe midseason they have slightly less depth to dip into for a major trade (which didn't look all that likely anyway). Maybe they end up holding on to Gee or Colon for the entire season. And maybe in the offseason they don't have the appetite for a major trade involving pitching, but they haven't shown that appetite yet anyway. At this point in the rebuild if things don't go well the only appetite they will need gain quickly is spending $ (next offseason). And by then Wheeler will be close to a return.
Maybe midseason they have slightly less depth to dip into for a major trade (which didn't look all that likely anyway). Maybe they end up holding on to Gee or Colon for the entire season. And maybe in the offseason they don't have the appetite for a major trade involving pitching, but they haven't shown that appetite yet anyway. At this point in the rebuild if things don't go well the only appetite they will need gain quickly is spending $ (next offseason). And by then Wheeler will be close to a return.
Really depends how much of a breakout you were expecting from Wheeler. If you merely expected roughly his 2014 (or a little better) than for the 2015 season it's not much of a loss. If you expected a big jump forward then it's a pretty major loss.
I wonder how they balance guys that fail with the successes like Wainright who was pretty close to winning a cy young post TJ, same with Strasburg, and even late-career guys like Lackey who looked like toast and then post TJ regained his form.
I know surgery/medicine isn't exact, but maybe there is a common theme somewhere that can help improve the efficacy of the procedure for everyone.
Sure and that's where the potential "big loss" or "not big" loss lies. For Wheeler it sucks, he losses at least 1 full season (likely closer to 1.5 given his own stated 6/1 target date) so in terms of development/experience he misses out. For the Mets, sure it's a loss either way, even in terms of one less chip to deal, one less piece of "insurance" if you expected Wheeler to be "deGrom-esque" this year then it's a bad loss for the 2015 Mets any way you slice it. If he were more on the 2014 Wheeler/Niese level, meh not a big deal for 2015.
Well they would all need to be healthy at the same time and Niese would be a pending FA so I think things would work themselves out. I'd be pretty surprised if Jon Niese is a Met long term
I actually think that will be the opening 2016 rotation. If Wheeler proves healthy, I could see Neise being a summer 2016 trade candidate. I think they'll hang on to Neise now though as long as he proves healthy.
I just can't see Niese being cost effective for the Mets. Assuming he pitches reasonably well a youngish lefty will get 4-5 years at 9-12 per on the open market. He's already so close to FA that an extension doesn't make much sense for him as a player. I'd be very surprised given the Mets depth in SP if they retain Jon Niese.
I have to say, I really am no longer thinking that way. Long has me pumped. I now think Lagares has a good chance of breaking out. After saying how he worked with Lagares, and how he saw a lot of "Cano" in him, ect. and NOW visually seeing his new approach, I am cautiously pumped. We'll see.
That's actually a perfect case scenario, not hogwash. If you build a farm that has Flores/Reynolds/Herrera ready to take over for a Murphy - that's how you sustain winning. You either move Murphy for more prospects and save money. Or retain Murphy and use the kids behind him as chips to fill the other holes in the roster.
Being forced to resign Ollie and Castillo because you have no alternative is what crushes an organization.
I have to say, I really am no longer thinking that way. Long has me pumped. I now think Lagares has a good chance of breaking out. After saying how he worked with Lagares, and how he saw a lot of "Cano" in him, ect. and NOW visually seeing his new approach, I am cautiously pumped. We'll see.
I'm not even concerned about him improving or even a slight regression. He's worth an extension (which at this point is team friendly) even if he "only" settles in as a great #4 OF option. The glove obviously plays and ANY team should be able to afford a 5-6 million dollar "great" 4th OF (worst case scenario) and best case is he improves further and is a top 5-6 CF in baseball for below market value. 100% extend Lagares for me. At this point he'd likely be looking at something like 6 years 30.
Be the perfect message to send to the fans, but wonder if it will happen or not.
Would kill to have the Mets find their Yelich and lock him up in his prime for only $50mm.
Who are the older veterans or impending free agents in the next few years?
1.) Colon, Gee, Neise - Syndergaard, Montero, and Matz. With many more on the way.
2.) Murphy - Herrera, Reynolds, Flores, Cechinni and countless others.
3.) Granderson and Cuddyer - Nimmo and Conforto
4.) Parnell - Akeel Morris, Ynoa, Fulmer, and countless others.
We look like we are going to be good for a long time.
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Mets should be looking to extend Lagares. That's the one guy that really makes sense to lock up now.
Be the perfect message to send to the fans, but wonder if it will happen or not.
Would kill to have the Mets find their Yelich and lock him up in his prime for only $50mm.
Yup. Yelich is a dream scenario for a team. Big talent locked up for a team friendly deal. I'm guessing Ozuna will be next for them. Lagares and deGrom would be the 2 extension guys I would be eying for the Mets.
Left-handers Duane Below and Chase Huchingson on trip to Tampa. Not saying either making Opening Day roster, but telling they're borrowed.
HH he's 4/27 with 14 k's. That's pretty horrendous.
Duda has had 27 atbats, or basically 5-6 games worth of atbats after missing a bunch of time with an intercostal injury. Personally I think it would be worth it even if we could extend him even for one season.
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would be 2 seasons from FA following 2015 so no incentive for him to sign for much of a discount (he's quietly been absolutely awful this spring, one of the few Mets). I'm not concerned at all, just under the radar awful.
Duda has had 27 atbats, or basically 5-6 games worth of atbats after missing a bunch of time with an intercostal injury. Personally I think it would be worth it even if we could extend him even for one season.
Again, it's only ST and it's early and I'm not concerned but 14 k's in 27 ab's is horrendous any way you want to slice it.
maybe try and buy two years of FA, and settle on 1.
Most of the time when you do that it's to give the player some financial security and the team cost certainty (and most extensions like this are team friendly to an extent relatively speaking).
so the player is tradeable and usually not some financial albatross in the event they don't pan out.
Lol. It's funny, apparently Gee was doing the complete opposite. He was working on working with nothing. Minimized his arsenal, working on NOT working on anything:
Dillon Gee was bothered by throwing 70 pitches through four innings Tuesday, but also acknowledged he was only using fastballs and change-ups, at the request of pitching coach Dan Warthen, he explained after the game.
We were working on seeing how good of a pitcher I could be with two pitches the first time through and not break out the other stuff, he said, noting that he may have been able to put a few guys away early with his slider, but chose not to.
maybe try and buy two years of FA, and settle on 1.
Most of the time when you do that it's to give the player some financial security and the team cost certainty (and most extensions like this are team friendly to an extent relatively speaking).
so the player is tradeable and usually not some financial albatross in the event they don't pan out.
As I noted below there is almost no chance Duda would take a "team friendly" extension at this point. He's already making 4.2 million, good year he'll likely get close to double that next year. So you are looking at offering him what to keep him from testing FA when he's so close? In a league where a 35+ Nelson Cruz gets 57 million and Pablo Sandoval gets 95, the Mets would have to pay him close to market value for it to make a lot of sense for Duda. I can't see the Mets doing that. Lagares on the other hand is Mets controlled through 2019.
I'd give him cash up front right now and work it into his 2015 salary. He isn't even getting paid yet for 2015 so technically he is on a three year deal. I agree its a long shot, but he isn't a sure thing yet either. It all rides on what he does this season. I think his agent would accept a 1-2 year extension with some money up front but it would have to be done right now. Just my take. Obviously the Mets aren't thinking this anyway.
Q+D on Huchingson: Funky mechanics, crossfire with low slot, FB bumps 90, sits 85-89. Two breakers, I prefer the low 80s slider.
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issue is players generally aren't amiable to "1 extra year". What's in it for Duda? If he has a big year in 2015 (which is what we are discussing) then his arb number is already high, if he hits FA he's looking at 5-6-7 years at big money. The time to get an "extra" year is when you lock up a guy after 1-2 seasons, that ship has sailed on Duda.
I'd give him cash up front right now and work it into his 2015 salary. He isn't even getting paid yet for 2015 so technically he is on a three year deal. I agree its a long shot, but he isn't a sure thing yet either. It all rides on what he does this season. I think his agent would accept a 1-2 year extension with some money up front but it would have to be done right now. Just my take. Obviously the Mets aren't thinking this anyway.
Well I'm working under the assumption this would be coming after a "big" or repeat season. I'm not sure the Mets are such big believers in Duda that they lay out even 40-50 million right now.
Yeah but Yelich was many years from FA. He had major incentive to take his 50 million. That's why Lagares and deGrom should either be done "soon" ie next 12 months or likely won't happen at all.
Link - ( New Window )
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are in fact done right before the opening of a season (see Yelich). It wont happen though.
Yeah but Yelich was many years from FA. He had major incentive to take his 50 million. That's why Lagares and deGrom should either be done "soon" ie next 12 months or likely won't happen at all.
Interesting little trade protection rumored to be included in Yelich deal. If he gets traded, new team has to pay the difference in taxes since he would presumablybe leaving FL.
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In comment 12202393 ZGiants98 said:
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are in fact done right before the opening of a season (see Yelich). It wont happen though.
Yeah but Yelich was many years from FA. He had major incentive to take his 50 million. That's why Lagares and deGrom should either be done "soon" ie next 12 months or likely won't happen at all.
Interesting little trade protection rumored to be included in Yelich deal. If he gets traded, new team has to pay the difference in taxes since he would presumablybe leaving FL.
Wow smart move for Yelich.
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are in fact done right before the opening of a season (see Yelich). It wont happen though.
Yeah but Yelich was many years from FA. He had major incentive to take his 50 million. That's why Lagares and deGrom should either be done "soon" ie next 12 months or likely won't happen at all.
Yeah I get that but my point was he hasn't gotten paid for 2015 yet so you can still give him a nice bump in salary for this season. Like I said, I know its a long shot. Out of everyone in this "young core" Duda is the number one player I am afraid of losing and he will likely get a MONSTER contract in three years if he keeps hitting with power. I don't see that sort of power anywhere in the system replacing him either. Oh well. Wishful thinking on my part.
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and deGrom
maybe try and buy two years of FA, and settle on 1.
Most of the time when you do that it's to give the player some financial security and the team cost certainty (and most extensions like this are team friendly to an extent relatively speaking).
so the player is tradeable and usually not some financial albatross in the event they don't pan out.
As I noted below there is almost no chance Duda would take a "team friendly" extension at this point. He's already making 4.2 million, good year he'll likely get close to double that next year. So you are looking at offering him what to keep him from testing FA when he's so close? In a league where a 35+ Nelson Cruz gets 57 million and Pablo Sandoval gets 95, the Mets would have to pay him close to market value for it to make a lot of sense for Duda. I can't see the Mets doing that. Lagares on the other hand is Mets controlled through 2019.
Almost no chance isn't no chance and Duda is not Panda or Cruz. He's a borderline platoon player, who has a few good seasons and only one really good season.
And I'd hope the Mets FO doesn't take that approach, "he's probably not going to sign an extension so let's not try"
Duda 253 30 92 .253/.349/.481 .830 OPS
One played half his games in CitiField
I'm not saying Lucas Duda is a lock to boost his OPS 29 points but it's 100% reasonable, even likely given the ballpark changes
Duda 253 30 92 .253/.349/.481 .830 OPS
One played half his games in CitiField
I'm not saying Lucas Duda is a lock to boost his OPS 29 points but it's 100% reasonable, even likely given the ballpark changes
Cruz is a 3.7 WAR player, Duda 3.2
But even if you say Duda = Cruz.
Cruz has a 14M per year 4 year deal.
Let's say you ask Duda to rip up this year, and next year and give him a 5 year 45 - 50M deal.
That's generational money. I think the Mets can get that done. It's essentially 3 years 33M - 38M, risk free - guaranteed money.
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I'm not really sure why Duda "isn't Cruz"? Nelson Cruz last season 271 40 108, .271/.333/.525, .859 OPS and got 57 million going into his age 35 season
Duda 253 30 92 .253/.349/.481 .830 OPS
One played half his games in CitiField
I'm not saying Lucas Duda is a lock to boost his OPS 29 points but it's 100% reasonable, even likely given the ballpark changes
Cruz is a 3.7 WAR player, Duda 3.2
But even if you say Duda = Cruz.
Cruz has a 14M per year 4 year deal.
Let's say you ask Duda to rip up this year, and next year and give him a 5 year 45 - 50M deal.
That's generational money. I think the Mets can get that done. It's essentially 3 years 33M - 38M, risk free - guaranteed money.
Yeah but 5 years buys up more than the 1 year extension being suggested. Would Duda take 2 extra years tacked on to what he currently has? Sure. But next year when he's making 7-8 million and is 1 year from FA suddenly that doesn't look very appealing.
after this year Duda will have earned 7M in his career.
He's an injury away from that being it and poor play the next two seasons away from that being league min or slightly above the rest of the way. I'm sure there are as many Chris Shelton's out there who wish they were extended after their flash in the pan success vs those guys who improved materially post-30.
Let's not pretend Duda has some great pedigree. He's had one really good year.
That's the allure of signing a deal even, team friendly for someone like Duda just a couple years from FA.
What's best case? At 32 what contract does he sign as a FA?
What Cruz just signed? 4 years 58M?
Life of a minor leaguer - ( New Window )
I think Duda is going to emerge as one of the best power bats in baseball this year. His approach and clean swing is not a fluke.
that's what I'm saying. HH or ZG said this is the time when teams lock up players or buy up years of arb/FA, and I suggested Duda, DeGrom, and Lagares are players I'd be talking to.
DMM said Duda wouldn't consider it because he's too close to FA. I don't disagree, but said there are still compelling reasons to try.
And if you're the Mets trying to sell an extension to a player with one year and 2 arbitration seasons from FA you want them to focus on the bad or negative side, not the upside, right?
LOL. If I'm the Mets I wanted Duda scared, sign him, and then have him blossom.
Harvey 2019
Wheeler 2020
deGrom 2021
Syndergaard 2022?
Matz 2023?
March, 25, 2015
MAR 25
11:51
AM ET
By Adam Rubin | ESPNNewYork.com
TAMPA, Fla. -- Zack Wheeler underwent Tommy John surgery on Wednesday morning at the Hospital for Special Surgery in Manhattan. The team described the surgery, which was performed by team doctor David Altchek, as "successful."
Altchek reconstructed Wheeler's fully torn ulnar collateral ligament and repaired a partially torn flexor-pronator tendon.
"He is expected to make a full recovery," the Mets said in a statement.
Audio on Buster Olney's podcast.
system who blew out his arm.
Audio on Buster Olney's podcast.
Harvey is seemingly a cocky, attention enjoying SOB but I don't think one thing has anything to do with the other. He's a rockstar regardless of when he starts. Let's be honest here, Matt Harvey pitching opening day is only a story to Mets fans. It's not like some national story, "Which game is Harvey starting?" If he pitches like Matt Harvey is star will grow regardless of opening day. Who even remembers opening day after the fact?
Audio on Buster Olney's podcast.
It's actually the opposite. Mets did hate Harvey the star, but both sides have learned how to work together. Having him start opening day at home - it's all about Opening Day. Having him start game two, it's all about Harvey.
Secondly, why announce it so early? And have everyone spend all week talking about Harvey? So if the team wanted to shun Harvey the star, the would put less attention on him and more on the team by not starting him game two.
Martino's tweet
Andy Martino @MartinoNYDN
Didn't see every pitch on gun, but Bobby Parnell in minor league game lots of 88mph, some 90.
Why would him previously hitting 92 tell you how close he is? If anything it would be a "bad" sign that he's "mostly" 88 in todays appearance.
I just also think people believe Parnell is some fireballer. He was outstanding in 2013 because of his knuckle curve. His fastball sat around 95 mph. He hasn't been that 100 mph guy in a long time.
I wouldn't get too absorbed with Parnell's velocity yet. Most people it takes a little bit to come back. And back field is not MLB stadium.
I just also think people believe Parnell is some fireballer. He was outstanding in 2013 because of his knuckle curve. His fastball sat around 95 mph. He hasn't been that 100 mph guy in a long time.
Parnell isn't a major league pitcher at 90-91.
They said he was 88-92, which means he's "missing" at minimum 3 MPH. That doesn't just jump up in 2 weeks time. That's a ST fallacy.
Just said exactly this. Unbelievable.
He did. On the minor league side.
He did. On the minor league side. And it's too soon to question how quickly he can help the Mets? Why is that?
I thought it was slow guns in his follow up start that he said he was sluggish? That he was still throwing 99 in his second start?
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And I just said he was at 95 in 2013. I've never seen somebody so concerned with microcopic samples in my life.
They said he was 88-92, which means he's "missing" at minimum 3 MPH. That doesn't just jump up in 2 weeks time. That's a ST fallacy.
To who?? Spring training pitchers in general or Tommy John guys coming back in there first throwing session ever?? Two completely different things.
"It's not a bad sign," Huchingson said. "That's for sure."
Below, 29, appeared in 43 games (three starts) with the Detroit Tigers and Miami Marlins from 2011 through 2013. Lefty batters have hit .295 against him at the major-league level, whereas righty batters have hit .265.
Still, pitching coach Dan Warthen -- who has seen Below pitch only once so far -- described the action on the veteran southpaw's pitches as "heavy." That means Below induces groundballs and keeps the ball in the ballpark.
"I asked the catchers, because I'm only watching from the side, and it looked like the ball was 'heavy,'" Warthen said. "The catchers said, 'Yeah, it's kind of deceptive.' He gets his hand behind his head. The ball comes out clean. He has enough velocity -- average velocity -- with movement, but the ball comes out heavy."
Below, 29, appeared in 43 games (three starts) with the Detroit Tigers and Miami Marlins from 2011 through 2013. Lefty batters have hit .295
Maybe for some. But Bobby Parnell would be awful sub-90. Not even sure it's debatable. He's a 2 pitch guy with plus velocity. He's a hitting tee sub 90. I don't even think ZGiants believe Parnell would be good sub 90.
"I hope to return in May, but let my body and arm tell me when I'm ready to come back."
Originally it was 2-3 weeks after opening day. Hopefully it was just the leg issue that set him back.
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to be a good pitcher.
Maybe for some. But Bobby Parnell would be awful sub-90. Not even sure it's debatable. He's a 2 pitch guy with plus velocity. He's a hitting tee sub 90. I don't even think ZGiants believe Parnell would be good sub 90.
Sub 90? Definitely not. Not even sure why that would be suggested if he's already hit 92 in his first session.
Yes. Dan originally said June as a target for Parnell and said if he made it back inside a month of opening day he wouldn't post here for a month. Obviously I'm not going to hold him to that. Lol
It's odd how good Montero's control was in AAA and how poor it was in MLB. You expect a higher walkrate in MLB but Montero's was like light and day. Smells like small sample size to me. I'd like to see him get a 6-7 start stretch in MLB and see what he can do, especially if out stopgap options aren't performing at a high level.
It's odd how good Montero's control was in AAA and how poor it was in MLB. You expect a higher walkrate in MLB but Montero's was like light and day. Smells like small sample size to me. I'd like to see him get a 6-7 start stretch in MLB and see what he can do, especially if out stopgap options aren't performing at a high level.
The Mets were reportedly "angry" or "upset" with Montero's approach last year at the MLB level. Surprised how timid he was. Not sure why it was that surprising but that was what was reported.
He had 6 total hits before today...
Just think Duda and Murphy haven't even really contributed yet either. TDA only for like a week. That's what I keep saying. 3-4 players can go cold and it won't matter. Highly unlikely 8 guys all go cold at once. We should have continued offense all year from all different directions.
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For about a week and a half now.
He had 6 total hits before today...
Yup and what does that make his batting average(including today) over the last week and half considering he's getting 1-2 atbats a day?
But then I thought I read the players "saved" TC's job.
No more details other than that.
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implied in his book that part of the reason he considered firing Collins was the Mets weren't drawing enough walks. I found that interesting for 2 reasons. 1. I'm not really sure how much impact a manager can have on players walking besides yelling at them to take more pitches 2. Everyone and their mother "hated" Hudgens approach yet his seemed more in line with "walking more". I assumed the hitting coach in general is responsible for monitoring this.
But then I thought I read the players "saved" TC's job.
No more details other than that.
Yeah so I'm guessing the players took the blame. Just seems strange to blame the manager. Not really sure what Collins could have done differently. Especially when he had guys who didn't walk much in Lagares, TDA, Chris Young, Murphy, Eric Young Jr. How often do you see MLB veteran players suddenly walking a lot more?
Anthony DiComo @AnthonyDiComo
Thoughts of Parnell being ready late April seem gone at this point. Sometime in May, Im hoping," he said. "But I dont put that in stone.
Sandy's quote was something like "Oh, so we're not taking pitches anymore. And that's ok"
Like he expected Collins to take certain guys aside and say - take a f-ing pitch or sit on the bench.
When that's your team philosophy and you have guys who won't do it, it makes the approach meaningless.
Theo has talked about that factoring in to trading Nomar.
Sandy's quote was something like "Oh, so we're not taking pitches anymore. And that's ok"
Like he expected Collins to take certain guys aside and say - take a f-ing pitch or sit on the bench.
When that's your team philosophy and you have guys who won't do it, it makes the approach meaningless.
Theo has talked about that factoring in to trading Nomar.
But everyone kept saying Hudgens made them too passive. Truth is "patient approach" is a disaster being forced upon guys who are 27-28-29 years old. They got where they are doing 1 thing, changing to "patient" from "not patient" almost never happens. Daniel Murphy is a very good MLB hitter, every off-season he would talk about becoming more patient, his career OBP .333, last year .332. Can a young player like Juan Lagares be more selective? Sure. But you look at the 2014 roster and show me who "should have walked more if Collins yelled at them".
Yup. And monitor Alvarez, Rice, and Leathersich in AAA until somebody emerges hopefully. I've seriously been impressed by Gilmartin lately. And he's been facing a ton of righties too.
In terms of guys with late inning upside it's basically Mazzoni but he's had a bad spring. Thornton and Bradford have "filler" ability but aren't anything of note. Montero is probably your best bet.
what I do believe is it isn't just about walking (which is part of it), but it's also about forcing the opposing pitcher to throw a lot of pitches.
And most GM's won't force a guy to be patient, they try and attract players who are patient at the plate and take pitches.
I don't see anyone asking Vlad Guerrero to take more pitches.
what I do believe is it isn't just about walking (which is part of it), but it's also about forcing the opposing pitcher to throw a lot of pitches.
And most GM's won't force a guy to be patient, they try and attract players who are patient at the plate and take pitches.
I don't see anyone asking Vlad Guerrero to take more pitches.
There are good players who aren't very patient but most bad players tend to be impatient and the 2014 Mets were full of bad players and most of the "good" players are not very patient. Lagares, Murphy, TDA (has been in the minors overly so in the bigs yet) EYJ, Chris Young etc. I don't recall anyone on here complaining the flaws with the 2014 Mets offense was "lack of patience".
Sandy's quote was something like "Oh, so we're not taking pitches anymore. And that's ok"
Like he expected Collins to take certain guys aside and say - take a f-ing pitch or sit on the bench.
Managers job is to lead. Don't have to walk 100 times, but if the team philosphy is to do X, and the players are not trying to do X - yes, manager takes the fall. If it's two hitting coaches in a row not getting through to the players, then maybe the importance isn't being relayed enough by the manager. Who may not buy into the philosophy so much himself...
Though, the next manager/hitting coach will sure look like a genious in 'getting through to the players'. Moving from the Murphy's, Granderson's, Legares's, MdD/Kirk's. To the Nimmos' Conforto's, Reynolds, and Plaweckis get promoted. All guys who are huge buy in's to the organizations philosophy...
so I defer to Sandy. If he says the team was not doing what he expected them to do I believe him.
When he says the players saved TC's job without any more details I take that to maybe mean they did throw the hitting coach under the bus or something like that, but it's speculative since that's the only comment I saw.
I'm not opining about what players should do, how you can change anyone, or what the approach even means.
I'm just interpreting the publicly released statements.
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Collins for physically not taking pitches, but I think he was suggesting he was ineffective as a manager.
Sandy's quote was something like "Oh, so we're not taking pitches anymore. And that's ok"
Like he expected Collins to take certain guys aside and say - take a f-ing pitch or sit on the bench.
Managers job is to lead. Don't have to walk 100 times, but if the team philosphy is to do X, and the players are not trying to do X - yes, manager takes the fall. If it's two hitting coaches in a row not getting through to the players, then maybe the importance isn't being relayed enough by the manager. Who may not buy into the philosophy so much himself...
Though, the next manager/hitting coach will sure look like a genious in 'getting through to the players'. Moving from the Murphy's, Granderson's, Legares's, MdD/Kirk's. To the Nimmos' Conforto's, Reynolds, and Plaweckis get promoted. All guys who are huge buy in's to the organizations philosophy...
Yeah. Like I said, you need the horses to have a working philosophy. The Yankees were so patient... because they added patient/really good hitters. They didn't add turds and suddenly the turds "bought in".
so I defer to Sandy. If he says the team was not doing what he expected them to do I believe him.
When he says the players saved TC's job without any more details I take that to maybe mean they did throw the hitting coach under the bus or something like that, but it's speculative since that's the only comment I saw.
I'm not opining about what players should do, how you can change anyone, or what the approach even means.
I'm just interpreting the publicly released statements.
PJ,
In fairness if an offense sucks... that YOU built... unless you are firing yourself... I mean who added Chris Young, Granderson, started Tejada at SS, Lagares (not knocking Lagares just stating he's not patient or hasn't been)? Sure looks like looking for something to blame.
Comment From working.
What young outfielder would you want as part of your core? Springer, Pederson, Betts?
12:07
Dave Cameron: Betts
If Boras isnt Bryants agent, do you think hed be on the Opening Day roster because an extension would be far more likely?
12:23
Dave Cameron: No. That extra year is valuable no matter who the agent is.
As an Os fan, I am basically resigned to them dumping Matusz for a C-grade prospect, then watching him pull an Arrieta for the other team. Im being overly pessimistic, right? He probably wont become a good starter, right?
12:25
Dave Cameron: I dont see Matusz ever getting RHBs out, which keeps him in the bullpen.
But I believe Wright and Murphy are the two Mets with the fewest pitches per plate appearance.
Really open to debate. I'd be more than willing to give them a Mazzoni though.
Key stat not measured there is swinging at the hitters pitch, and taking a strike that the batter can't do anything positive with. I assume that's what Sandy was annoyed at with the lineup last year.
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Who fits the bill?
Really open to debate. I'd be more than willing to give them a Mazzoni though.
How much $$ do the Orioles eat?
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Mets 3rd best in not swinging at pitches out of the zone 28.8% of the time they swung out of the zone, 19th in swinging at pitches in the zone, 10th in first pitch strikes
Key stat not measured there is swinging at the hitters pitch, and taking a strike that the batter can't do anything positive with. I assume that's what Sandy was annoyed at with the lineup last year.
The offense would have sucked regardless of the manager or hitting coach. That's my point. David Wright was hurt, Chris Young looks finished, Granderson sucked, TDA was awful first half, Tejada sucks, you really think some other manager changes any of those facts from last year?
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In comment 12203184 Eric on Li said:
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Who fits the bill?
Really open to debate. I'd be more than willing to give them a Mazzoni though.
How much $$ do the Orioles eat?
If the Orioles are eating salary it's likely for a bump up in prospect quality, no?
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In comment 12203184 Eric on Li said:
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Who fits the bill?
Really open to debate. I'd be more than willing to give them a Mazzoni though.
How much $$ do the Orioles eat?
I don't think the Orioles are eating much if they are taking back a C prospect. Maybe 1 million max? I feel like it's going to be 2 aballers (maybe not from the Mets) for Matusz. A Whalen and Lawley type of deal (just throwing out random names).
NYM Offseason review - ( New Window )
The best part of that whole review was reading who are "notable losses" were. lol.
Parnell doesn't throw a sinker. Your words, Parnell or Rubins?
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Parnell's velocity only sat at 87-91 mph, but he said he was trying not to overthrow. He also noted he primarily threw sinkers, which utilize less velocity than four-seam fastballs.
Parnell doesn't throw a sinker. Your words, Parnell or Rubins?
I guess he does now.
Link - ( New Window )
Lagares is arbitration eligible after the season which is why you lock him up now or no later than the off-season. The goal is to buy out arbitration years and hopefully 1-2 of FA. 6 year deal worth 30-35 seems smart for both sides.
I can guarantee it 110% that he threw a whopping zero sinkers.
I can guarantee it 110% that he threw a whopping zero sinkers.
Kind of an odd thing to say. He's been off for two years. He couldn't have learned to grip a baseball a little different? Its impossible?
I find it unlikely he gambles on himself when he's not a FA until after 2019. 30 or so million (likely with the usual 2 team options at inflated money tacked on) sets him for life vs. playing out 2015, 2016, 2017, 2018 and 2019. I'd at least approach him.
Its the entire approach that has me excited. He isn't swinging at anything out of the strike zone, he's fouling off tough pitches, and beating up on strikes. It could all be a mirage but he looks like a different player.
Why though? Nobody's arguing with you or against you. lol. Trying to ban yourself? It wouldn't be the first time he's unleashed a new pitch out of nowhere. He never threw a curveball in his life before 2012. Was strictly Fastball/Slider.
Well thats weird. He's seems as lost as most of us half the time. lol. jk. I used to have a great connection with the Marlins but he no longer works in the front office. I wouldn't give up his name but I had no problem telling people I did. I also came within a cunts hair of a pretty high up job with the Mets myself when I first got my MBA. Came down between me and two other candidates but alas... It wasn't meant to be. lol.
" Former closer Bobby Parnell's first game action since Tommy John surgery ... he mostly threw two-seamers (sinkers), which take a few mph off."
(I didn't add the sinkers park, second paragraph down linked below).
Link - ( New Window )
" Former closer Bobby Parnell's first game action since Tommy John surgery ... he mostly threw two-seamers (sinkers), which take a few mph off."
(I didn't add the sinkers park, second paragraph down linked below). Link - ( New Window )
So he manually changed it from 2 seamers to sinkers on purpose?? lol The mystery grows!
it's awesome seeing some of these names on this tweet (Smith, Rosario, Conforto) - eh Mazzilli - whatever.
RT @TimHeiman: B-Mets launch five home runs in 12-4 win over Marlins AA; Rosario, Mazzilli, Conforto, Smith, Cruzado all go deep.
lol. Its just funny. Who would be THAT adamant about the impossibility of Parnell ever throwing a sinker outside of maybe Warthen. Haha.
That is funny. And Ive seen the name many times and never saw it like that until just now. Haha.
Link - ( New Window )
Thing to remember is despite being "older" for the level for much of his career he's ROCKETED through the system so while he looked timid with iffy command last year in the bigs, I think the guy deserves a little slack. Even with his struggles he still struck out 42 in 44 innings in the MLB last year.
I think we likely all agree it's unlikely the guy is ever a Matt Harvey or 2014 deGrom but I also think it's highly possible his upside is at least "healthy" Jon Niese-ish. I've always rooted for Dillon Gee because he's a good story, late pick, has overcome injuries etc but let's be honest here Dillon Gee is a filler talent. I'm happy we have a Gee to fall back on but odds are the Mets would be losing close to "nothing" if Gee were gone and they went with Montero with Thor and Matz at AAA.
100% agree. I have no ill will toward Gee, but I think we can do better than him.
Shecky,
The thing is there is probably a close to 0% chance Gee is back with the Mets next year at close to 7 million so his value is really 2015 vs. Montero with Matz/Thor as insurance. I'm going with the longer term option.
[quote] he is a late pick, he has overcome injuries and most important to me, he has been a class act about the trade rumors and moving to the bullpen. Not one bit of anger or frustration from him. He took it like a great teammate. Having said that, if Dillon Gee is not on, he will get lit up, he relies on location and finesse. Montero is a solid potential number 4 thatNetwork can get lefties out with a beautiful change up. The upsides of the both of them are not comparable. Give the ball to Montero [/quote
well said.. except for the Network thing.. but otherwise spot on.
That said, I've made it very clear over and over again I'm pissed off we haven't shed salary, starting with Colon. So I would strongly prefer an asset Gee can return over Gee the asset, dollar for dollar, for our teams needs
Lol. What he do to piss off Collins, again...
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today I believe. He's at least traveling with the team.
Lol. What he do to piss off Collins, again...
batted .450 and played great D.
Montero on the other hand has been surpassed by other exciting prospects in peoples minds, but my god, he was hitting 97 on the gun yesterday with pin point control. No walks, one run allowed against the Yankees A lineup. I wouldn't be surprised at all if Montero had a "DeGrom type" breakout if given a chance.
I disagree. Gee was worth 1.8 fWAR in 2013 and 0.4 fWar last year. Steamer and Zips both project him for about half a win this year. We know what Gee is, and it's not a "good" MLB pitcher. He's a spot starter/long man on a good team, at best, not a guy you are going to give 30+ starts to.
If Montero looks good, and he's a guy that we have a long term interest in, why waste any starts on Gee? I think Montero is better than Gee right now and every win is going to count this year.
Well if he gets banged around we will ALL call for him to be replaced. I mean I'm a Mets fan not a Dillon Gee fan. I want to win games, not human interest stories.
You can take the best stretch of starts for a lot of pitchers and they'd look great. I'm more interested in what we can expect going forward based on his entire body of work. Also, it's not like he was striking out a ton of guys during that run or is known as a prolific ground ball pitcher, I think a lot of that run was good fortune.
Anyway, I'm not trying to be too harsh on Gee. Having him at #5 isn't a disaster. But, if our rotation is going to be a strength this year, and I think it'll have to be to make a playoff run, having 3/5 of the rotation be Niese, 41 year old Colon, and Dillon Gee, might make that difficult. IMO, it's hard objectively say that our rotation is elite at the moment. We're relying more on projections with Thor and Matz rather than the guys who are breaking camp.
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Little doubt Montero is the better long term piece. And zero argument he is by far the greater bang for the buck. Just saying Gee is a good, major league pitcher. In a big game he won't get rattled. I can think of many more worse problems than being "stuck" with him.
I disagree. Gee was worth 1.8 fWAR in 2013 and 0.4 fWar last year. Steamer and Zips both project him for about half a win this year. We know what Gee is, and it's not a "good" MLB pitcher. He's a spot starter/long man on a good team, at best, not a guy you are going to give 30+ starts to.
If Montero looks good, and he's a guy that we have a long term interest in, why waste any starts on Gee? I think Montero is better than Gee right now and every win is going to count this year.
I'd be interested to know the win shares for back of the rotation starters in general. Are they expected to be worth 3-4 wins?
HH,
Are you being serious here? Because Gee is classy you won't be calling for him to be replaced? One of the strangest arguments/statements I've seen in my years here.
To me the rotation went from "excellent" with Wheeler to "Cookie Cutter Solid". At least at the moment.
1.) Harvey-Undoubtedly an ace
2.) deGrom- Undoubtedly a solid number 2
3.) Neise - If healthy a solid 3
4.) Colon- Prototypical innings eater 4 /15 game winner- 200 innings
5.) Gee-Perfect 5.
I think the hope is that towards the half way point the rotation starts to back to excellent again.
Basically a league average player is worth 2 WAR (except relievers). WAR isn't a rate stat aka, you can be awesome but not play a full slate and be worth less than a guy who was worse but over a full-season.
What? Talk about changing the argument. You said
and I said
and somehow you are disagreeing with this statement? Wow.
That is utter BS. You make a statement and then "move on". Which fans don't care about results? If Niese has a 6.00 era through 20 starts but you like him you wouldn't want him replaced? If Flores has 30 errors in 50 games but you like him you wouldn't call for him to be replaced? I'm seriously blown away by this claim beyond anything I've ever seen on here.
I could be wrong here, but a team is targeting a 1.1 WAR or greater from a 5th starter.
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A league average SP should be worth roughly 2.0 WAR over a full season.
I could be wrong here, but a team is targeting a 1.1 WAR or greater from a 5th starter.
Yeah 1.1 WAR from a 5th starter is considered the "break even" point.
Headhunter : 9:46 am : link : reply
is rip into Gee if he starts and gets banged around.
This is what I wrote and you went off like you always seem to do in putting words in peoples mouths. This is all I said, period, end of story
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A league average SP should be worth roughly 2.0 WAR over a full season.
I could be wrong here, but a team is targeting a 1.1 WAR or greater from a 5th starter.
I was just going to say this. League average isn't standard from a number 5 starter.
Headhunter : 9:46 am : link : reply
is rip into Gee if he starts and gets banged around.
This is what I wrote and you went off like you always seem to do in putting words in peoples mouths. This is all I said, period, end of story
But I responded by saying we would call to have him replaced which you disagreed with. Calling to have someone replaced isn't "ripping them" on some personal level. If players don't play well fans want them replaced. Guys with a long track record of success or some personal connection with the fans get a longer leash but poor performance for most adult fans (not using adult in a mocking way, just that children are different) = wanting a replacement.
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In comment 12204089 DanMetroMan said:
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A league average SP should be worth roughly 2.0 WAR over a full season.
I could be wrong here, but a team is targeting a 1.1 WAR or greater from a 5th starter.
Yeah 1.1 WAR from a 5th starter is considered the "break even" point.
In about 100 career starts Gee is about a five and a half win player. So about a 1.8 WAR/33 start pitcher. Not horrible. Not great.
But does that really happen that often on here? Outside of Tejada I can't recall anyone ever getting that treatment from even the craziest of fans on here. Maybe Chris Young too but he was absolutely horrendous.
Lol. Felt like it took my five minutes just to read this post.
Can't forget BBIs two current favorites: Collins, and Fred.
So if Curtis Granderson is Jason Bay bad you won't say he sucks/is done? It's not some personal attack on a player to say as a player they suck if they do. I'm sure their own teammates feel that way. What are you supposed to say if a player does poorly for a long period of time? "I am disappointed that Bay hasn't performed. Wish he would do better. Well what can you do?"
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that I've read attacks on Met players who failed in key spots or became whipping boys like Tejada, Young, Castillo, Perez, Bay.
Can't forget BBIs two current favorites: Collins, and Fred.
I've yet to read a SINGLE positive comment regarding Jeff Wilpon in my years following the Mets. Not one. Though I will say Adam Rubin seemingly likes him somewhat.
This isn't meant to argue that Dillon Gee is an awesome pitcher - he's not. In all likelihood he is a below-average major league starter. But if you add another 0.5 or 0.6 to Gee's projected WAR, he clocks in at 1.1 or 1.2, and while that's still below average, it's at least meaningfully above replacement level.
side question - is there an innings cap on Montero for this season? If so, would it make sense to start him in the bullpen and see how Gee does? If he sucks for 2-3 starts, you get Montero into the rotation and then he possibly has more innings left in him. Or if Gee pitches well you let him continue until a deal comes along.
I've heard the exactly the same from people who deal with Jeff very regularly.
Totally unrelated but interesting piece in Grantland which shows that Bartolo Colon GAINED the second most velocity the second time through the order, and ZacK Wheeler lost the second most. May be elbow related, maybe not. Just interesting.
This isn't meant to argue that Dillon Gee is an awesome pitcher - he's not. In all likelihood he is a below-average major league starter. But if you add another 0.5 or 0.6 to Gee's projected WAR, he clocks in at 1.1 or 1.2, and while that's still below average, it's at least meaningfully above replacement level.
Audible,
It's been adjusted by fangraphs. The Mets pen went from 29th to 25th, rotation up to 10th.
This isn't meant to argue that Dillon Gee is an awesome pitcher - he's not. In all likelihood he is a below-average major league starter. But if you add another 0.5 or 0.6 to Gee's projected WAR, he clocks in at 1.1 or 1.2, and while that's still below average, it's at least meaningfully above replacement level.
Fair post, but can we really say for sure that fWar has the wrong of it? If our hitters are going to get slack for lack of HRs in Citi Field, then shouldn't we ask more from our pitchers for games pitched there?
Harvey was worth 6.5 fWar his best year and deGrom was worth 3.5 fWar in limited action last year, so it's not like you can't run up a good fWar as a pitcher in Citi Field if you are legit good.
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met Fred on 3 occasions, briefly had a legit conversation outside of CitiField on a non-game day and he was really legit nice where he could have been dismissive. Every single Jeff Wilpon story is a negative one. I wish the Mets had different owners but specifically because soon Jeff will fully be in charge and that is terrifying to me.
I've heard the exactly the same from people who deal with Jeff very regularly.
Fred actually stopped in his tracks and spoke to me for a good 4-5 minutes, which actually surprised me. I was even sort of starstruck so I didn't know what to say but he seemed like he was happy to have fans. Gammons used to talk about how much people disliked Jeff however.
Totally unrelated but interesting piece in Grantland which shows that Bartolo Colon GAINED the second most velocity the second time through the order, and ZacK Wheeler lost the second most. May be elbow related, maybe not. Just interesting.
Could be savvy veteran pitchers learn a lot of the years. Changing speed and location can be as effective as movement. That's pitching. Something Mr. Syndergaard is learning.
I'd guess more likely Colon throws X hard by choice (not that he secretly could throw 95) but that if he really wanted to open games with the 1.25 MPH he "gains" second time through he could. Seems like a strategic junkballer move to me.
Name Velo Change (mph) Name Velo Change (mph)
Johnny Cueto +1.47 Jarred Cosart -1.50
Bartolo Colon +1.25 Zack Wheeler -1.31
Hisashi Iwakuma +1.05 John Lackey -1.23
Masahiro Tanaka +0.98 Mike Minor -1.16
Jeff Locke +0.84 James Shields -1.15
Hiroki Kuroda +0.75 Jered Weaver -1.11
Justin Verlander +0.66 Phil Hughes -0.91
Trevor Bauer +0.62 Tyler Skaggs -0.91
Wade Miley +0.50 Ryan Vogelsong -0.90
Homer Bailey +0.46 Jake Arrieta -0.85
The Mets overall pitching staff went from 30th in baseball to 18th, and the rotation just went from 25th to 10th, pen 29th to 25th
deGrom from 3.0 to 3.5
Colon from 2.1 to 2.8
Wheeler from 1.8 to 2.5
Niese from 1.6 to 2.3
Gee from -0.1 to 0.4
Metnut,
Your comment is still valid though. Those giving the Mets bats a bump for the new wall don't take the Mets pitchers taking a potential hit as well. The thing is you can't really accurately project how a stadium will play year to year (especially with a new wall).
I would guess
A. He will communicate (poorly) non-stop with the media
B. Wreck the culture of the organization and the perception from fans
C. Fire many managers and be involved with many personal decisions (a very bad Danny Snyder type)
D. Sell the team b/c he's not a business person
Jeffrey will make the dark days of the Jets look sane. The family foundation is built on real estate and money which wasn't even theirs. Com'on, the market tripled since the collapse and this family hasn't even touched their principle as they refinanced debt to the tune of $1.2 billion over the past few years. At least the Sterling Website (just 3 months ago) upgraded their photo of Kaz Matsui, Reyes and Willie Randolph. Talk about out of touch. Stay tuned
Matt Bowman starts tonight for #Mets at #Nats
You had to get that one last dig earlier how the Mets bullpen adjusted from29th to 25th lol
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clarify, fangraphs has adjusted for this issue (back dating as well) so the current numbers are accurate ie Harvey now has a 6.5 2013 fWAR after adjustment. So the projections are "accurate".
You had to get that one last dig earlier how the Mets bullpen adjusted from29th to 25th lol
Well it's relevant when the starters got significant bumps but the overall staff was "only" 18th.
Your comment is still valid though. Those giving the Mets bats a bump for the new wall don't take the Mets pitchers taking a potential hit as well. The thing is you can't really accurately project how a stadium will play year to year (especially with a new wall).
Yeah, it's an interesting item to discuss.
It's important (and Dan, I know you know this) to note that the park factors used for batters and pitchers are separate. We don't use FIP (or a FIP-equivalent for batters) to model offensive WAR for position players, we use wOBA - and so we want to use a wOBA park factor on offense and a FIP park factor for pitchers.
Metnut, I had a longer reply and then deleted it. The problem - and apparently this has been corrected - was that the pitcher fWAR was using a park factor that unfairly penalized Mets pitchers. If the correct park factor is used for offense, you get a net negative effect at the team level - if the park factor error for pitchers was in the neighborhood of 0.5 WAR / 200 IP, over the course of an entire season that's a nearly four-win negative skew for the Mets' team projection.
Dan, did you see any announcement from FanGraphs when they made that adjustment? They're usually reasonably clear about methodology, unlike some sites for other sports (*cough*Football Outsiders*cough*), but I like to see how the sausage gets made.
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Metnut,
Your comment is still valid though. Those giving the Mets bats a bump for the new wall don't take the Mets pitchers taking a potential hit as well. The thing is you can't really accurately project how a stadium will play year to year (especially with a new wall).
Yeah, it's an interesting item to discuss.
It's important (and Dan, I know you know this) to note that the park factors used for batters and pitchers are separate. We don't use FIP (or a FIP-equivalent for batters) to model offensive WAR for position players, we use wOBA - and so we want to use a wOBA park factor on offense and a FIP park factor for pitchers.
Metnut, I had a longer reply and then deleted it. The problem - and apparently this has been corrected - was that the pitcher fWAR was using a park factor that unfairly penalized Mets pitchers. If the correct park factor is used for offense, you get a net negative effect at the team level - if the park factor error for pitchers was in the neighborhood of 0.5 WAR / 200 IP, over the course of an entire season that's a nearly four-win negative skew for the Mets' team projection.
Dan, did you see any announcement from FanGraphs when they made that adjustment? They're usually reasonably clear about methodology, unlike some sites for other sports (*cough*Football Outsiders*cough*), but I like to see how the sausage gets made.
Audible
1. I really meant as a casual discussion "I think Granderson will hit 10 more homers" but nobody is saying "but Colon may give up 4 more homers" etc.
2. Basically Noah Baron had this lengthy 2 part piece that identified the issue and then they corrected it. Not really sure when it happened but here is his piece
http://www.fangraphs.com/community/trying-to-improve-fwar-part-1/
As for Montero, I'm out now but I don't think he'll have an innings cap this year. Maybe a slight one, but nothing crazy.
2. Basically Noah Baron had this lengthy 2 part piece that identified the issue and then they corrected it. Not really sure when it happened but here is his piece
http://www.fangraphs.com/community/trying-to-improve-fwar-part-1/
(1) Yeah, gotcha.
(2) I meant to link that specific piece in my reply to Metnut, and then forgot :)
Fangraphs Community Research really is one of the best parts of the site. August Fagerstrom got hired in large part on the basis of his community posts, and he's probably my favorite addition to the site in some time (with apologies to Kiley). He has a SABR award in his future.
And since I mentioned the SABR awards and I'm already off-track relative to the thread topic, I'm going to link the piece that got Jeff Sullivan his 2014 SABR award, because Jeff Sullivan is a national treasure.
Alex Gordon Barely Had a Chance - ( New Window )
Parnell said he was throwing 2 seamers, not sinkers.
Wish I saw that before I drafted him in fantasy baseball last night.
Meh, a limit that high (175 or so) I don't think is worth changing a guys role. They have Torres for multiple innings and they have Thor and Matz at AAA. I don't think innings management is such a big deal. I'm not looking to stir this up again but I'm not counting on Parnell for much. Not saying he won't help but I wouldn't rely on it.
Parnell said he was throwing 2 seamers, not sinkers.
So who won the bet?
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to clarify yesterdays sinker/2 seamer stuff
Parnell said he was throwing 2 seamers, not sinkers.
So who won the bet?
I'm too tired to rile up ZGiants again but Shecky would win this one.
""I went into this outing trying not to overthrow," Parnell said. "I knew the gun wasn't going to be anything outstanding. So I backed off. I wanted to work on my two-seamer because it wasn't there last game, and make sure I stayed back on the rubber and stuff like that. It was more of a 'go out there and knock the rust off' type of thing, rather than overthrow.""
Us Mets fans love to argue. If we were all younger playing in the sandlot there would be lots of fights, but a lot of fun too.
And just as an FYI..a lot of people (pitchers even) use two-seamer and sinker interchangeably
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if I felt he was better suited to it than Gee. I wouldn't have a long leash with Gee, but ideally he pitches solidly as a starter and builds up some trade value while Montero helps the BP until Parnell's return (also saving some innings on Montero's arm).
Meh, a limit that high (175 or so) I don't think is worth changing a guys role. They have Torres for multiple innings and they have Thor and Matz at AAA. I don't think innings management is such a big deal. I'm not looking to stir this up again but I'm not counting on Parnell for much. Not saying he won't help but I wouldn't rely on it.
I agree about Parnell Dan - that's part of the reason why I think Montero can impact the team more in the BP than the starting rotation. When I watch him pitch he looks a like K-Rod to me, and maybe it's too superficial but he has the stature of a reliever more than a traditional innings eater.
Believe me, I have no major allegiance to Gee deserving the nod over him necessarily. Just don't think Gee will be a boost to the BP and think that's a much bigger ? right now than the 5th starter.
Us Mets fans love to argue. If we were all younger playing in the sandlot there would be lots of fights, but a lot of fun too.
And just as an FYI..a lot of people (pitchers even) use two-seamer and sinker interchangeably
Which is why even by BBI spring training baseball "arguments" it was silly.
The Reds have done unusually well with shorter SP's. Cueto, Volquez, Leake, now trying this Cuban kid.
That's completely fair. Only counter argument is that there's even more upside not too far down the road with both Matz & Sydnergaard. Maybe they decide to give Montero the 5th spot and there's a trade possibility out there to deal Gee for someone in the BP? What's up with Rex Brothers?
Robert Brender @robertbrender 22m 22 minutes ago
Black told me, "today was a big spirit lift." He's planning to throw a bullpen in two days. #Mets
Mike Vorkunov 5m
Collins says there are still multiple job openings on the bench even if Murphy is ready for Opening Day
Mike Vorkunov 5m
Collins says there are still multiple job openings on the bench even if Murphy is ready for Opening Day
He's got a spot reserved for Flores on his first GIDP.
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Howell & Matusz would also be good pickups...where did you see that they needed $ back on Matusz?
Howell & Matusz would also be good pickups...where did you see that they needed $ back on Matusz?
According to Thomas Harding the Rockies beat guy from mlb.com said the Rockies had "no interest" in Gee for Brothers and that their reported interest in Gee was highly overstated. He even responded to this topic when I asked him via twitter but I don't know how to find out tweets.
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Howell & Matusz would also be good pickups...where did you see that they needed $ back on Matusz?
Money back meaning salary picked up.
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down, but if so maybe they reconsider? I haven't seen how he's done in spring training, but I think I'd do that deal.
Howell & Matusz would also be good pickups...where did you see that they needed $ back on Matusz?
According to Thomas Harding the Rockies beat guy from mlb.com said the Rockies had "no interest" in Gee for Brothers and that their reported interest in Gee was highly overstated. He even responded to this topic when I asked him via twitter but I don't know how to find out tweets.
nm I misunderstood your post and thought you meant the Mets turned it down. The Rockies not having interest is the last thing I'd remembered on the subject.
As far as Matusz/Howell go, I'd take either and assuming it was an inconsequential C-level prospect I can't imagine our budget is so tight that we'd need either team to eat $. I mean, neither one of those guys is getting paid a fortune and it seems highly likely we'll save money eventually when a whichever veteran pitcher gets dealt eventually to open up a spot in the rotation.
As far as Matusz/Howell go, I'd take either and assuming it was an inconsequential C-level prospect I can't imagine our budget is so tight that we'd need either team to eat $. I mean, neither one of those guys is getting paid a fortune and it seems highly likely we'll save money eventually when a whichever veteran pitcher gets dealt eventually to open up a spot in the rotation.
I feel like those 2 are the more realistic/better gambles. Logan would be one of the highest paid players on the Mets... would you really want him sucking up that much salary hoping for a bounce back? Brothers seemingly would cost a decent amount (Rodriguez as well). Matusz or Howell seem like the most "realistic" or this other kid I've never heard of.
Matusz on the other hand seems like an odd man out situation. O's are trying to keep Verrett and their other Rule V pick. They're a somewhat budget conscious organization. I think it's likely they deal him, the question is just cost.
No great surprise, but a #Mets source acknowledges Sandy Alderson is talking to multiple teams about acquiring lefty relief help.
Though if the bats stay hot it may not matter. This season can't start fast enough.
It was Sabathia. ;) He did rope a single off Price though.
2.) Herrera
3.) Reynolds
4.) Plawecki
5.) MDD
6.) Puello
7.) Muno
8.) Allen
Wow.
He actually changed his swing before last season. Worked on it all offseason before 2014. It obviously worked.
Nice game.
Weren't you bashing me about Reynolds a few weeks ago? jk. ;)
We are going to be good for a looooong time. Anybody still think we should have traded Thor for Alexei Ramirez?? Ah. Wont this season start already!
In a Triple-A appearance Wednesday as he works back from Tommy John surgery, Parnell sat at 87-91 mph with his fastball.
Still, Warthen said: "It's where it should be."
Warthen suggested Parnell's velocity will be more normal in a week to 10 days, when he gets more games under his belt and builds up arm strength. The coach added that pitchers typically pick up a couple of miles per hour on their fastball from adrenaline once they get into a major league stadium and with regular-season games at stake.
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I'll be the first to admit it. I was always the furthest thing from a Reynolds fan personally. Couldn't ignore last season, and he has blown away this spring. Very impressive.
Have fun. I've never been to a ST game. Be cool to see some of the guys who will be in the minors.
87 and a wild card! On the low end. ;)
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Monday and Im not even remotely excited. So over spring training. lol.
Have fun. I've never been to a ST game. Be cool to see some of the guys who will be in the minors.
That sucks PJ. Come down here and go to one sometime. Its great. Super relaxed. Can talk to the pitchers in the bullpen. Walk around. Lay out. Its a different kind of experience. lol.
If it was in the offseason, I can't deny it is possible. Sure your not confusing him with Tovar???
Z - if you like spring games, see if you can catch a practice or a minor league spring game. Spring is great, but those will turn you back into an 8 year old all over again. And if you're a true nut, catch a GCL game. More fans at a tee ball game than those. No exaggeration... Those are all true fan experiences.
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In comment 12205502 ZGiants98 said:
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Monday and Im not even remotely excited. So over spring training. lol.
Have fun. I've never been to a ST game. Be cool to see some of the guys who will be in the minors.
That sucks PJ. Come down here and go to one sometime. Its great. Super relaxed. Can talk to the pitchers in the bullpen. Walk around. Lay out. Its a different kind of experience. lol.
Yeah, I keep saying one of these years I will. My father lives north of Orlando and he goes occasionally to a game (Braves?) or Astros when they were in kissimmee - if they were playing the Yankees. He's a Yankees fan.
It just never worked out yet with the kids and school vacations.
absolutely
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for mentioning Reynolds as some depth at SS a few times over the offseason. All good though. ;)
If it was in the offseason, I can't deny it is possible. Sure your not confusing him with Tovar???
Z - if you like spring games, see if you can catch a practice or a minor league spring game. Spring is great, but those will turn you back into an 8 year old all over again. And if you're a true nut, catch a GCL game. More fans at a tee ball game than those. No exaggeration... Those are all true fan experiences.
Hey Sheck! Thanks. Ive been to a couple. I made it up to Savannah once. Ive also gone to couple St. Lucie games. Ive been meaning to make it to a Cyclone game one of the next times Im up in NY as well.
Just my two cents.
Moronic. I love Matt Harvey but that is absolutely ridiculous.
hope it isn't Puello
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also get a PTNL. Really like the move pending the PTNL's identity.
hope it isn't Puello
Don't think it would really matter as it would imply the Padres would have claimed him anyway. I'm just praying it's not Milton Ramos.
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also get a PTNL. Really like the move pending the PTNL's identity.
hope it isn't Puello
Me too, but at least we would've gotten a real MLB player for him. Beats losing him for nothing.