Where are the regular people? Is this them?
Grieving women carried her coffin high on their shoulders in scenes many said they had never witnessed before in the Afghan capital.
Men are traditionally pallbearers in Kabul, where days earlier a mob of male attackers beat and kicked 27-year-old Farkhunda before tossing her off a bridge, setting her body on fire and throwing it in the river. [...]
Twenty-six people have been arrested in connection with the brutal killing [...]
Farkhunda's parents said the killing was instigated by a local mullah of the Shah-e-Do Shamshera Mosque in the city's center, who had been angered by Farkhunda's accusations that he was distributing false tawiz.
Tawiz are pieces of paper containing verses of the Quran which are sometimes worn as pendants to ward off evil and bring the wearer good luck.
TOLOnews reported that "in order to save his job and life," the mullah reportedly began shouting accusations that Farkhunda had burned the Quran.
Witnesses said a crowd gathered and hauled Farkhunda into the street.
"We were asking the people to stop beating her and let us ask what religion she belongs to," one witness told TOLOnews. "But the people didn't listen to us and kept beating her." [...]
Thirteen police officials have been suspended in connection with the attack [...]
"We're very interested particularly to see what happens in terms of the investigation of the police behavior [...]
... that the police did not intervene adequately and properly to save her when there was an opportunity to do so."
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Mix one part uneducated masses, one part religious fervor, one part misogyny to the extreme (where females are seen as property), and one part corruption (on the part of the religious leaders, etc.)...you've got a recipe for heinous acts like this.
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Thus all the political leaders are religious leaders and the ancient hatreds of the religion rule the region.
Time for the Islamic culture to separate church from state.
Until that happens this type of thing never changes.
People take to the streets to protest for positive change and have for centuries. Other people take to the streets to protest on behalf of causes most of us find abhorrent and have for centuries. If anything, the relative apathy of most of us regarding "taking it to the streets" is abnormal.
Thus all the political leaders are religious leaders and the ancient hatreds of the religion rule the region.
Time for the Islamic culture to separate church from state.
Until that happens this type of thing never changes.
But that's not exactly true. They had largely secular quasi-socialist states in Iraq, Syria and Egypt for decades. They had largely secular monarchies in Iran and Afghanistan for decades. Yes that secularism did not penetrate the whole of society, but it certainly looked like the trend until maybe 1978 or 1979.
Hopefully a positive leader emerges in that region. Someone who the people respect for his beliefs, but someone who also knows where to draw the line.
found it
Greg from LI : 2:07 pm : link : reply
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MARCH 10, 2015 ... 4 months later ...
Justice Dost Muhammad also expressed reservations over the police performance saying, “Police could not fix responsibility even after arresting 90 accused. Had an SP been murdered, the police would have had all 90 arrested men confess the murder. The Christian couple was burnt alive in the presence of police but it did not take action.”
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People who work every day, and are worried about paying bills, providing for their family, don't have time for shit like this
People who work every day, and are worried about paying bills, providing for their family, don't have time for shit like this
That's a comforting thought and in many instances certainly seems true, but some of the most economically prosperous areas have descended into chaos pretty rapidly. Baghdad, Kabul, certainly Beirut. And that's not to speak of those from the West (born into Islam or converted to it) or from the Gulf States who have embraced violence, though their motivations certainly differ from the denizens of the Grand Bazaar who turned on the Shah and helped bring the theocracy into power.
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and jobs.
People who work every day, and are worried about paying bills, providing for their family, don't have time for shit like this
That's a comforting thought and in many instances certainly seems true, but some of the most economically prosperous areas have descended into chaos pretty rapidly. Baghdad, Kabul, certainly Beirut. And that's not to speak of those from the West (born into Islam or converted to it) or from the Gulf States who have embraced violence, though their motivations certainly differ from the denizens of the Grand Bazaar who turned on the Shah and helped bring the theocracy into power.
It's certainly stunning to think of what Beirut was circa 1975 and what it became thereafter.
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and jobs.
People who work every day, and are worried about paying bills, providing for their family, don't have time for shit like this
That's a comforting thought and in many instances certainly seems true, but some of the most economically prosperous areas have descended into chaos pretty rapidly. Baghdad, Kabul, certainly Beirut. And that's not to speak of those from the West (born into Islam or converted to it) or from the Gulf States who have embraced violence, though their motivations certainly differ from the denizens of the Grand Bazaar who turned on the Shah and helped bring the theocracy into power.
First the economy and then the separation of church and state. The separation can't happen in a bad economy.
We punish our religious extremists....In the civilized world, you bomb an abortion clinic because you're on the "right side" of the bible, we will hunt you down and you're going to jail.
This is all a pipe dream. It'll never happen, but if I were playing Sims, I'd bet this is the winning formula. ;)
The Ukraine in the mid-30's begs to differ. And half of the man-made genocides of the last century or so.
People who work every day, and are worried about paying bills, providing for their family, don't have time for shit like this
Hmmm...I could swear I've heard that before.
Thus all the political leaders are religious leaders and the ancient hatreds of the religion rule the region.
Time for the Islamic culture to separate church from state.
Until that happens this type of thing never changes.
Read *Muhammad: Prophet and Statesman* for an account of why this distinction is quite alien to Islam in a way that it isn't for some other faiths.
The first thing my professor (a practicing Muslim scholar) said to us in class is that if your idea of religion is "render unto Ceasar what is owed to him and unto God what is owed to Him", you won't understand the fundamental vision of Islam, which unifies the two.
You know that more people were killed in the secular wars and purges of the 20th century, under atheist ideologies, than probably in all of the wars of religion in the previous 1000 years, right?
IMHO, Religion is an excuse for people do do dumb things, but they'd do it anyway for other reasons. People are just dumb.
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human race can move farther away from its dependence on religion, the sooner we will see this stuff disappear..
You know that more people were killed in the secular wars and purges of the 20th century, under atheist ideologies, than probably in all of the wars of religion in the previous 1000 years, right?
And the reality is "in all of the wars of religion in the previous 1000 years" amounts to well less than 10% of all the wars ever fought. i.e. It's a myth religion caused more wars than anything else. If you took a second to think where you heard that you'd know it was true.
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In comment 12199398 Gordo said:
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human race can move farther away from its dependence on religion, the sooner we will see this stuff disappear..
You know that more people were killed in the secular wars and purges of the 20th century, under atheist ideologies, than probably in all of the wars of religion in the previous 1000 years, right?
And the reality is "in all of the wars of religion in the previous 1000 years" amounts to well less than 10% of all the wars ever fought. i.e. It's a myth religion caused more wars than anything else. If you took a second to think where you heard that you'd know it was true.
We probably agree on this. I put out a vague statement, and was willing to overstate it to make a point. Ignore "of religion" if you want.