an Eli extension would probably run in the neighborhood of $20M/year, having him play out 2015 with a cap hit of $19.75M, and franchise him (assuming he stays healthy and productive) in 2016 for (likely) $23.7M is not a terrible outcome for the team.
The cost is pretty close to what an extension would cost, and although they can't push any of that cap hit into later years, they benefit from the fact that none of that money is guaranteed. They don't have much control of him past 2016, but they avoid the risk of locking-in a value now for a player who turns 36 in January of 2017.
That's actually a pretty strong hand to take into negotiations with Condon.
I lock up Eli right now. I disagree with the statement in the article that Eli has proven to be an inconsistent player. In my opinion he is actually remarkably consistent.
Giants won the division his first year as a starter and did not have losing seasons until these past two. His worst year that offense unit was a damn joke and while it would be foolish to absolve him from all the blame for 2013, it is difficult for me to place even a large amount of that shit show on his shoulders.
Took Eli until week 2 to look comfortable in this new system. I have no doubt he will play well this year. If he lights up the NFL it would serve the Giants right to have him hold them up and be the highest paid QB in the league.
one further comment. The idea for a prove it to us year for Eli is absurd. Guy is the best QB in team history. He has led this franchise for a decade in what would be one of its golden ages. He has also been a model citizen and never says crap to the media. Think he had some opinions on the "team" they put around him in '13? Who took the poundings week in week out without a peep?
He has nothing to prove. I suppose you could argue he is in decline, but I do not see it. What is declining? His foot speed?
The cap is going up but so are salaries. With no reason to clear up major cap space for a big FA signing this year, why not extend both this offseason and keep the cap hits the same? With JPP you can extend him and even fully guarantee the first year at 14.8 million, same as the tag. Why wait a year when backups like Pernell Mcphee are getting 40 million? If JPP plays out the tag and has a big year he will be asking for Suh money next offseason. I just think it makes more sense to get the deals done now.
But it's the right thing to do when we havent made the playoffs in 3 seasons. Let Eli prove his worth. If we have another 6-10 season expect everyone to be fired from the GM, the coach, and the QB. Love Eli but we can't afford to pay a non elite QB 20 mil a season.
He's going to be around for a long time, I think. When the contract gets done is a mere formality.
JPP. That's different. He could chose to sign elsewhere or the Giants could choose to move on.
Tend to agree, certainly with JPP. I think this may well be his last year with the Giants.
As far as Eli is concerned, he'd have to be truly awful in 2015, or suffer a really bad injury, for him not to get one final substantial contract with the Giants. I nonetheless support their decision not to extend him. He's 34. Athletes can deteriorate gradually, or very quickly. They want to wait before committing that kind of money? Fine. But I bet he does well enough this year to get another deal with the Giants.
As somebody said, though, everybody is on notice, including Coughlin, and maybe even Reese. Didn't Mara say after the Jacksonville loss that he wanted to fire everyone?
before he retires. But since mid 2012 pretty much everything about the Giants has been awful. The Giants owners seem incapable of moving the team forward.
an Eli extension would probably run in the neighborhood of $20M/year, having him play out 2015 with a cap hit of $19.75M, and franchise him (assuming he stays healthy and productive) in 2016 for (likely) $23.7M is not a terrible outcome for the team.
The cost is pretty close to what an extension would cost, and although they can't push any of that cap hit into later years, they benefit from the fact that none of that money is guaranteed. They don't have much control of him past 2016, but they avoid the risk of locking-in a value now for a player who turns 36 in January of 2017.
That's actually a pretty strong hand to take into negotiations with Condon.
Well said. They could franchise him next year. The cap hit is all in that year IIRC, but there is no further commitment.
RE: It will be awful if Eli plays for another team Â
before he retires. But since mid 2012 pretty much everything about the Giants has been awful. The Giants owners seem incapable of moving the team forward.
Yup. They might as well sell the team now, while it's still worth something.
To see another season In this offense before paying out 20m a year for 5 years with much of it guaranteed. For 1.5 years Eli was a brutal making 20m (partly due to supporting cast and partly due to bad play). Last year he was very good- and we still won just 6 games..... If he isn't better then last year and we can't even scrap together a 500 season them it's not worth the long commitment with a bad roster.
Hopefully that's not the case but the Giants are prudent to play it out of Eli and condon are not going to budge on their demands-
You may be right, but what if Eli doesn't play well?
After his 30 TD, 4400 yard performance last year I'm not worried but that's his choice. Either way I think he gets signed long term. For how much is the question.
who have to prove something to Eli. Can they build a starting OL that doesn't include the likes of Walton and Jerry? Can they salvage the last few years of his career after pissing away the last two? Maybe #10's not in any big hurry to sign a long-term deal.
could you franchise one and transition tag another Â
The only seasons Eli looked bad were his rookie year, and only part of that, and those years when he had a lousy OL and no running game.
JPP is another story. I would sacrifice him to keep Eli, if that was necessary.
As I said in the other thread, there is no guarantee that a new regime Â
is on board with Eli, JPP, Prince or any other long term big contract. Ala Colts, all major contracts could be jettison for a new regime rebuild. Makes no sense to hamstring them with decisions and possible consequences they had no input into making. Eli could have a similar season and a new coach/gm may still want to move on with their own fingerprints on the organization.
aside from very early on, he makes very few mistakes and is a winner at the position and a true leader.
You guys can cut bait if you like and think we'll be better off but I'd suggest watching full seasons of Dave Brown, Danny Kannel and Kent Graham and get back to me? Better chance of acquiring a similar QB to them than a repeating Super Bowl winner.
The bad thing to me is tat if JPP plays better in 2015 I'm asking myself is this the real JPP? Or, is he motivated only by a desire to make as much money as possible for his next contract.
For Eli, I have to believe the Giants think that if necessary, they could start Nassib if Eli doesn't re-sign for some reason. What we see with 2015 Eli is going to be...well, Eli. I believe he will always give 100%.
It's still very possible and IMO likely that the 2 players are re-signed quietly during the season once the Giants have seen enough to form a conviction. If we don't see a signing by season's end, that player is probably gone.
Randy, you are confusing fans opinions with football decisions Â
I saw Joe Cool take the Chiefs to the playoffs just a few years removed from winning the MVP in SF. Last game Favre played as a Packer was in a NFC championship overtime lost to the Giants. And Eli's brother first missed game of his career was the end of his time in Indy.
Each of those 3 QBs left teams and took their new teams to the playoffs and even a SB. But their time with their old teams were done and it wasn't necessarily because they couldn't perform anymore. It was just their was up in those spots.
aside from very early on, he makes very few mistakes and is a winner at the position and a true leader.
You guys can cut bait if you like and think we'll be better off but I'd suggest watching full seasons of Dave Brown, Danny Kannel and Kent Graham and get back to me? Better chance of acquiring a similar QB to them than a repeating Super Bowl winner.
Exactly! I have said this before, I am amazed at how many fans that don't seem to truly appreciate just how hard it is for organizations to replace a franchise QB.
Whenever the day comes where Eli is no longer a Giant he will be sorely missed and not easily replaced.
“I would love Eli to retire from football a New York Giant,” Tisch said Monday at the NFL meetings. “It’s my personal feelings, and as one of the co-owners, my professional feelings. It would make me very happy. I think it would be very special for the Giants organization, for Eli and for the Manning family. I think that’s certainly a personal goal.”......
“I don’t like forcing issues,” Tisch said. “There is no deadline at this point in time, no gun to anybody’s head.”.....
“Eli is not focused on his contract,” Tisch said. “He is so laid back. It will all work out.”
far from being the classy organization I've always felt they were if they've basically told Eli Manning he needs to have a "prove it" year in order to stay in the organization going forward.
"Moronic" is the term that best seems to describe that, in my opinion.
far from being the classy organization I've always felt they were if they've basically told Eli Manning he needs to have a "prove it" year in order to stay in the organization going forward.
"Moronic" is the term that best seems to describe that, in my opinion.
Football is a business. And before they fork over what could be essentially 1/10 of a BILLION dollars (figuring a 100 million dollar deal).. they want to make sure of their investment.. and thats exactly what they should do.
I understand the Giants wanting to keep all options open Â
but I also think it's a very slim chance he doesn't re-sign with NY and such a thing would require an injury situation similar to Peyton's or some other unusual situation. There really isn't any reason to expect a decline in play, he's coming off one of his best seasons in 11 years. Highest completion percentage of his career 2nd (63.1%), 2nd most yards (4,410) and TDs (31). Threw for twice as many TDs as INTs for only the 3rd time in 11 seasons. And this was only his first year in the new system. With Beckham, a returning Cruz, the ongoing development of Randle and Donnell, not to mention the addition of one of the best 3rd down backs in the league in Vereen I don't see Eli slowing down. Not reworking an extension now is strictly an age thing and is IMO the equivalent of meteorite insurance.
With JPP though they are absolutely hedging their bets. We all know what he looked like in 2011, a true star in the making. He's failed to build on that season or return to that level, largely due to injuries. He rebounded enough this year to warrant the tag. And while he was a consistent stalwart against the run his sack numbers were very inconsistent. He only recorded 3.5 through the first 12 weeks of the season but added 9 over the final month of the season against poor teams (minus Philly) who were already out of playoff contention. That's a huge red flag.
Eli may not retire a Giant, it's exceedingly rare to see a player spend his entire playing career with one team. But I'm almost certain he'll get another contract with NY, even if he doesn't play it out here. JPP, I have no idea. Either way I hope he makes it an easy decision. Either the back holds up and he returns to form or it's obvious that he's never regaining his earlier ability. Hopefully it's an easy decision where it's either clear they have a centerpiece you build around or a guy who was robbed of reaching his true potential due to the back issues. Then you either commit to him and pay him or you start thinking of what you can do with the newfound 13-18 mill in cap room they'll have from parting ways.
It wasn't all his fault, but Eli was terrible in 2013.
Eli was terrible in 2013 because he had no TE. I've made this comment repeatedly. The biggest mistake made by Reese was allowing Martellus Bennett to walk. And I don't accept the excuse that the salary cap left Reese no choice. He could have found a way. Not having Bennnet hurt the running game, left Eli with no target able to create separation, and left Eli vulnerable to a pass rush on the right side of the line.
needs for Eli to prove himself. He's a well known commodity. I'd love for Eli to play with NY for the rest of his career, but at what price? The 19 to 20 mil a year has been expensive, and comes at the cost of allocating dollars to other players. Another factor here, is with Big Ben getting basically 20 mil for the next 5 years, it's a negotiating point for Eli's sake.
No tight end, but bigger factors were the turnstiles on the offensive line. In 2013 Eli so often had no time to throw, and to his fault, that pressured him into making many bad throws.
You cannot talk about Eli's performance in 2013 without weighing in that horrendous OLine. = No running game and no time to throw. Add to that, he tried to make things happen out of desperation.
Calling him terrible that year is like blaming cars for falling into the river because the bridge collapsed.
Listen, if they want Manning back next year, money isn't going to be an issue unles he simply wants more than he's worth. they will be able to afford whatever they want next year. If they don't pay him it's because they don't want him. If they want him they will be able to pay him. Same thing with JPP.
Best let them both play out the year and keep our options open, especially if we are even considering hiring a new coach, which we never know when TC may call it quits.There may be some other DE available next year where that money may be better spent, and JPP may do what he did last year again, which really doesn't rate top dollar. the Giants have shown if you play like dogballs all year and then inflate your stats against pooftah teams when we are out of the running we are not gonna pay .It's a wise policy I might add.
JPP wants to get paid? Do something when it's still relevant. If you want to be paid like a difference maker, then make a difference, I say.
but I also think it's a very slim chance he doesn't re-sign with NY and such a thing would require an injury situation similar to Peyton's or some other unusual situation. There really isn't any reason to expect a decline in play, he's coming off one of his best seasons in 11 years. Highest completion percentage of his career 2nd (63.1%), 2nd most yards (4,410) and TDs (31). Threw for twice as many TDs as INTs for only the 3rd time in 11 seasons. And this was only his first year in the new system. With Beckham, a returning Cruz, the ongoing development of Randle and Donnell, not to mention the addition of one of the best 3rd down backs in the league in Vereen I don't see Eli slowing down. Not reworking an extension now is strictly an age thing and is IMO the equivalent of meteorite insurance.
With JPP though they are absolutely hedging their bets. We all know what he looked like in 2011, a true star in the making. He's failed to build on that season or return to that level, largely due to injuries. He rebounded enough this year to warrant the tag. And while he was a consistent stalwart against the run his sack numbers were very inconsistent. He only recorded 3.5 through the first 12 weeks of the season but added 9 over the final month of the season against poor teams (minus Philly) who were already out of playoff contention. That's a huge red flag.
Eli may not retire a Giant, it's exceedingly rare to see a player spend his entire playing career with one team. But I'm almost certain he'll get another contract with NY, even if he doesn't play it out here. JPP, I have no idea. Either way I hope he makes it an easy decision. Either the back holds up and he returns to form or it's obvious that he's never regaining his earlier ability. Hopefully it's an easy decision where it's either clear they have a centerpiece you build around or a guy who was robbed of reaching his true potential due to the back issues. Then you either commit to him and pay him or you start thinking of what you can do with the newfound 13-18 mill in cap room they'll have from parting ways.
I saw Joe Cool take the Chiefs to the playoffs just a few years removed from winning the MVP in SF. Last game Favre played as a Packer was in a NFC championship overtime lost to the Giants. And Eli's brother first missed game of his career was the end of his time in Indy.
Each of those 3 QBs left teams and took their new teams to the playoffs and even a SB. But their time with their old teams were done and it wasn't necessarily because they couldn't perform anymore. It was just their was up in those spots.
Steve young and Andrew Luck had a lot to do with that. I wouldn't put Nassib in their league.
This is not rolling the dice. There is no need to rush into an extension with Eli. I do not see any way there is not a contract done within the year.
JPP was given the tag as a means to really buy time. There are still 5 months to the start of the season. The Giants know you do not let 26 year old top level DE, with zero off field isues, walk. A 5 year contract expires when he is 30.
I do not know where this notion of him needing motivation is. The guy hustles around the field as much as JJ Watt does
This continued notion of looking at only sack numbers is ridiculous. He was a dominant player in those games without getting sacks
IMO that's a good thing.
The cost is pretty close to what an extension would cost, and although they can't push any of that cap hit into later years, they benefit from the fact that none of that money is guaranteed. They don't have much control of him past 2016, but they avoid the risk of locking-in a value now for a player who turns 36 in January of 2017.
That's actually a pretty strong hand to take into negotiations with Condon.
Giants won the division his first year as a starter and did not have losing seasons until these past two. His worst year that offense unit was a damn joke and while it would be foolish to absolve him from all the blame for 2013, it is difficult for me to place even a large amount of that shit show on his shoulders.
Took Eli until week 2 to look comfortable in this new system. I have no doubt he will play well this year. If he lights up the NFL it would serve the Giants right to have him hold them up and be the highest paid QB in the league.
JPP, now that would be an inconsistent player.
He has nothing to prove. I suppose you could argue he is in decline, but I do not see it. What is declining? His foot speed?
JPP. That's different. He could chose to sign elsewhere or the Giants could choose to move on.
Possibly.. however the player also has to want the deal.
JPP. That's different. He could chose to sign elsewhere or the Giants could choose to move on.
Tend to agree, certainly with JPP. I think this may well be his last year with the Giants.
As far as Eli is concerned, he'd have to be truly awful in 2015, or suffer a really bad injury, for him not to get one final substantial contract with the Giants. I nonetheless support their decision not to extend him. He's 34. Athletes can deteriorate gradually, or very quickly. They want to wait before committing that kind of money? Fine. But I bet he does well enough this year to get another deal with the Giants.
As somebody said, though, everybody is on notice, including Coughlin, and maybe even Reese. Didn't Mara say after the Jacksonville loss that he wanted to fire everyone?
Get Eli an OL and a consistent running game..
The cost is pretty close to what an extension would cost, and although they can't push any of that cap hit into later years, they benefit from the fact that none of that money is guaranteed. They don't have much control of him past 2016, but they avoid the risk of locking-in a value now for a player who turns 36 in January of 2017.
That's actually a pretty strong hand to take into negotiations with Condon.
Well said. They could franchise him next year. The cap hit is all in that year IIRC, but there is no further commitment.
Yup. They might as well sell the team now, while it's still worth something.
Hopefully that's not the case but the Giants are prudent to play it out of Eli and condon are not going to budge on their demands-
After his 30 TD, 4400 yard performance last year I'm not worried but that's his choice. Either way I think he gets signed long term. For how much is the question.
JPP is another story. I would sacrifice him to keep Eli, if that was necessary.
You guys can cut bait if you like and think we'll be better off but I'd suggest watching full seasons of Dave Brown, Danny Kannel and Kent Graham and get back to me? Better chance of acquiring a similar QB to them than a repeating Super Bowl winner.
For Eli, I have to believe the Giants think that if necessary, they could start Nassib if Eli doesn't re-sign for some reason. What we see with 2015 Eli is going to be...well, Eli. I believe he will always give 100%.
It's still very possible and IMO likely that the 2 players are re-signed quietly during the season once the Giants have seen enough to form a conviction. If we don't see a signing by season's end, that player is probably gone.
Each of those 3 QBs left teams and took their new teams to the playoffs and even a SB. But their time with their old teams were done and it wasn't necessarily because they couldn't perform anymore. It was just their was up in those spots.
You guys can cut bait if you like and think we'll be better off but I'd suggest watching full seasons of Dave Brown, Danny Kannel and Kent Graham and get back to me? Better chance of acquiring a similar QB to them than a repeating Super Bowl winner.
Exactly! I have said this before, I am amazed at how many fans that don't seem to truly appreciate just how hard it is for organizations to replace a franchise QB.
Whenever the day comes where Eli is no longer a Giant he will be sorely missed and not easily replaced.
Really man?? Did you seriously ask this question.. This is every player on the planet..
“I don’t like forcing issues,” Tisch said. “There is no deadline at this point in time, no gun to anybody’s head.”.....
“Eli is not focused on his contract,” Tisch said. “He is so laid back. It will all work out.”
Link - ( New Window )
"Moronic" is the term that best seems to describe that, in my opinion.
1964 is calling . . .
"Moronic" is the term that best seems to describe that, in my opinion.
Football is a business. And before they fork over what could be essentially 1/10 of a BILLION dollars (figuring a 100 million dollar deal).. they want to make sure of their investment.. and thats exactly what they should do.
With JPP though they are absolutely hedging their bets. We all know what he looked like in 2011, a true star in the making. He's failed to build on that season or return to that level, largely due to injuries. He rebounded enough this year to warrant the tag. And while he was a consistent stalwart against the run his sack numbers were very inconsistent. He only recorded 3.5 through the first 12 weeks of the season but added 9 over the final month of the season against poor teams (minus Philly) who were already out of playoff contention. That's a huge red flag.
Eli may not retire a Giant, it's exceedingly rare to see a player spend his entire playing career with one team. But I'm almost certain he'll get another contract with NY, even if he doesn't play it out here. JPP, I have no idea. Either way I hope he makes it an easy decision. Either the back holds up and he returns to form or it's obvious that he's never regaining his earlier ability. Hopefully it's an easy decision where it's either clear they have a centerpiece you build around or a guy who was robbed of reaching his true potential due to the back issues. Then you either commit to him and pay him or you start thinking of what you can do with the newfound 13-18 mill in cap room they'll have from parting ways.
Eli was terrible in 2013 because he had no TE. I've made this comment repeatedly. The biggest mistake made by Reese was allowing Martellus Bennett to walk. And I don't accept the excuse that the salary cap left Reese no choice. He could have found a way. Not having Bennnet hurt the running game, left Eli with no target able to create separation, and left Eli vulnerable to a pass rush on the right side of the line.
No tight end, but bigger factors were the turnstiles on the offensive line. In 2013 Eli so often had no time to throw, and to his fault, that pressured him into making many bad throws.
Calling him terrible that year is like blaming cars for falling into the river because the bridge collapsed.
Best let them both play out the year and keep our options open, especially if we are even considering hiring a new coach, which we never know when TC may call it quits.There may be some other DE available next year where that money may be better spent, and JPP may do what he did last year again, which really doesn't rate top dollar. the Giants have shown if you play like dogballs all year and then inflate your stats against pooftah teams when we are out of the running we are not gonna pay .It's a wise policy I might add.
JPP wants to get paid? Do something when it's still relevant. If you want to be paid like a difference maker, then make a difference, I say.
...let them both have career years, lead the Giants to a deep playoff run and then we'll all jump off the bridge when we get there.
Or, they both have so-so seasons and the Giants will determine who to sign and at some reasonable number.
This is surely the right thing to do.
It also makes me think the Giants may go DE in Round 1 or 2.
With JPP though they are absolutely hedging their bets. We all know what he looked like in 2011, a true star in the making. He's failed to build on that season or return to that level, largely due to injuries. He rebounded enough this year to warrant the tag. And while he was a consistent stalwart against the run his sack numbers were very inconsistent. He only recorded 3.5 through the first 12 weeks of the season but added 9 over the final month of the season against poor teams (minus Philly) who were already out of playoff contention. That's a huge red flag.
Eli may not retire a Giant, it's exceedingly rare to see a player spend his entire playing career with one team. But I'm almost certain he'll get another contract with NY, even if he doesn't play it out here. JPP, I have no idea. Either way I hope he makes it an easy decision. Either the back holds up and he returns to form or it's obvious that he's never regaining his earlier ability. Hopefully it's an easy decision where it's either clear they have a centerpiece you build around or a guy who was robbed of reaching his true potential due to the back issues. Then you either commit to him and pay him or you start thinking of what you can do with the newfound 13-18 mill in cap room they'll have from parting ways.
Agree 100%.
1964 is calling . . .
I suspect a lot of people don't know who Jerry Golsteyn and Joe Pisarcik are!
Each of those 3 QBs left teams and took their new teams to the playoffs and even a SB. But their time with their old teams were done and it wasn't necessarily because they couldn't perform anymore. It was just their was up in those spots.
Steve young and Andrew Luck had a lot to do with that. I wouldn't put Nassib in their league.
If we could what would he be worth in this years draft? Maybe a first and a second?
Would any of you see that as a good idea?
Agreed, the Simms debacle was gut wrenching for us fans...
JPP was given the tag as a means to really buy time. There are still 5 months to the start of the season. The Giants know you do not let 26 year old top level DE, with zero off field isues, walk. A 5 year contract expires when he is 30.
I do not know where this notion of him needing motivation is. The guy hustles around the field as much as JJ Watt does
This continued notion of looking at only sack numbers is ridiculous. He was a dominant player in those games without getting sacks