College guys: Scherff, Collins or Peat

at the combine. No think Sy is coming out similarly too.
OLmen - ( New Window )

In comment 12200300 RB^2 said:

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and were drafted very high, does anyone know how Greg Robinson's rookie year with the Rams went?

I think he was playing OK at guard early in the year, but bombed at LT after they moved him there due to injuries, which is not unexpected since he was projected to need a year or 2 to develop before being an NFL LT.

...really believe they will be on the board there? I think there is a chance but not a good one. Certainly below 50% when I analyze the draft.

You sound off on their explosive playmaking ability and elite athleticism then expect them to drop to #9? There are many teams in the top 8 in need of a WR and more just behind us that could move up to get one if they slide past #5.

In my opinion the likely scenario has us looking at an edge rusher(Gregory) who would be a poor fit in our scheme barring changes(which may come) or an OL(Scherff) when we are on the clock. I have Parker, Lael Collins and Shelton slotted a Tier below and dismiss the DB's Waynes and Collins because I don't see them as Top 10 worthy.

Thanks, I see the Iowa largely the same as you. Scherff is a top 10 talent in this draft for me, I'd have no issue drafting him at #9.

I'd love to draft Cooper but it's a pipedream imo. His post season has reinforced his dominance on tape. White could last until #9 and I'd be facing a really tough call if Scherff is there. Not sure what I would do...maybe flip a coin.

In comment 12200372 JonC said:

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Thanks, I see the Iowa largely the same as you. Scherff is a top 10 talent in this draft for me, I'd have no issue drafting him at #9.

agree with you and Torrag

If NYG doesn't grade Peat high enough but they love Scherff, I'd be OK with it given the prospects we could be faced with at #9 (the WRs will probably be gone, the edge rushers don't appear to fit our scheme really well, and Dupree may lack the grade, etc). It's not a great year to be picking top 10. In a best outcome, we all want the blue chip LT if there is one.

between an Oline guy projected as a mauler as opposed to a puller?

Mauler refers to facing your man one on one a simply blowing him off the ball. Consistently dominating the guy in front of you.

A puller is a lineman in motion by design vacating his place on the line to run and attack another position.

The great ones do both at a high level.

for a year or two while he develops or is he mainly a OT prospect like Peat.

I'd love WR/edge rusher at #9, with OL help in the 2nd. And the ideal OL would be a guy that could step in at LG Day 1 and then slide over to LT in 1-2 years when they move on from Beatty.

Why wouldn't you draft him if you don't have an option with a higher grade? The question we can't answer is...which offensive lineman do the Giants carry such a grade on...if any.

My gut tells me they may prefer Peat based on his LT skillset if has the grade. Frankly that worries me as I have doubts about his mental toughness(doesn't dominate) and discipline(why all the bad weight).

In comment 12200386 Torrag said:

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Mauler refers to facing your man one on one a simply blowing him off the ball. Consistently dominating the guy in front of you. A puller is a lineman in motion by design vacating his place on the line to run and attack another position. The great ones do both at a high level.

Makes sense. I figure raw power for mauler & quickness for a puller to execute the blocking route.

If Giants have a top ten grade on Scherrf then id be fine with him at 9. Maybe you pick right tackles or guards that high nowadays? All i can say is ive seen him get beat badly by speedy edge rushers and that doesn't spell left tackle to me. I love his tenacity and run game nastiness though.

but if the NYG has that conviction about him and believes he's worth the grade, relative to WRs or DEs etc, then I'm ok picking a prospect with All Pro potential and plugging him into the line. Cost-controlled for four seasons. I'd prefer Peat as he's a left tackle, but stick with the draft board and pick the best player available (which should fill a need judging the crop).

he's the safest player in the entire draft imo. Dude is going to be a Pro Bowler for a decade. I prefer him at OG/RT, but I think he can play LT down the line.

Scherff 2nd. He's growing on me. Not too far from Collins, one of my favorite players from the draft.

Peat has the highest ceiling but he's 3rd. Way too big of a hit-or-miss pick. His body is an utter mess and if he can fix that he might realize his true potential, but that's a bigtime "if" considering how jiggly soft he is right now.

but I like Collins better than Scherff. I think he can be an excellent LG and RT but also has the ability to possibly move to LT as well. I wouldnt necessarily be disappointed with Scherff, we could absolutely use a lineman like him but I see a higher ceiling with Collins. Everyone is talking about Scherff's aggressiveness and run blocking, but...

"La'el Collins, OL, LSU: It's hard to find a big, athletic blocker with a nasty temperament and polished game, but Collins checks all the boxes. He showed exceptional agility, athleticism and explosiveness during the "Olympic drills" on Friday. Collins clocked 5.12 in the 40-yard dash, which is certainly impressive for a 6-foot-4, 305-pounder with a chiseled frame. In positional drills, Collins flashed exceptional balance, body control and agility. He is surprisingly light on his feet, yet powerful when making contact with defenders at the point of attack. Collins routinely jolted foes with his short punches in blocking drills. Although practice drills aren't a true simulation of game action, the fact that Collins displayed the strength, power and agility of a blue-chip prospect could make him one of the first offensive linemen to come off the board on draft day."
NFL.com Article - ( New Window )

Just read the UK breakdown and he seems to feel the same way. Maybe I'm not in the minority ;)

In comment 12200985 Lionhart28 said:

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but I like Collins better than Scherff. I think he can be an excellent LG and RT but also has the ability to possibly move to LT as well. I wouldnt necessarily be disappointed with Scherff, we could absolutely use a lineman like him but I see a higher ceiling with Collins. Everyone is talking about Scherff's aggressiveness and run blocking, but... "La'el Collins, OL, LSU: It's hard to find a big, athletic blocker with a nasty temperament and polished game, but Collins checks all the boxes. He showed exceptional agility, athleticism and explosiveness during the "Olympic drills" on Friday. Collins clocked 5.12 in the 40-yard dash, which is certainly impressive for a 6-foot-4, 305-pounder with a chiseled frame. In positional drills, Collins flashed exceptional balance, body control and agility. He is surprisingly light on his feet, yet powerful when making contact with defenders at the point of attack. Collins routinely jolted foes with his short punches in blocking drills. Although practice drills aren't a true simulation of game action, the fact that Collins displayed the strength, power and agility of a blue-chip prospect could make him one of the first offensive linemen to come off the board on draft day." NFL.com Article - ( New Window )

From what I've read, you're not that much in the minority, if at all..

I guess I started to feel that way based on all of the talk about Scherff on here.

and his size isn't a positive, he's smallish if the desire if for him to play RT (not unlike Pugh).

I see a lot more power in Collins' game than Pugh's. I think at 6'4" 305-ish, he could easily add 10-15 lbs if that's what the Giants want him to do. I just don't see the pass pro chops in Scherff to trust him at RT.

help a lot in year one though.

Thus, some redundancy if you have both on your roster. Perhaps not a bad problem to have, but NYG normally goes bigger for their tackles under TC (Pugh being smallest by far), and a pair of 6'4 315 lbs is a bit smallish.

but if you have to pick one...

The #1 requirement for the #9 pick is he had better be ready to play meaningful minutes early. The team is in a win in 2015 or else mode (not quoting Mara here as that is not quite what he said) and premium picks will need to contribute. If the pick is a lineman it will be predicated on his ability to play RT or OG early. What would be nice is if it could be a guy who could play LT in a year or two. This would seem to point to Andrus Pete, but the question marks about him persist.

arc june keeps mentioning Clemmings at #9, but he might be the only one. Maybe he is on to something. He certainly has big upside, but is raw. You could argue he is like Tyron Smith when he came out of USC.

Scherrf certainly could play RT or OG right away, but is he worthy of #9? Could he ever play LT? I don't know, but if the Giants think he can, then he is the no brainer selection.

Ultimately, I think the Giants can find someone to play OG or RT in round 2, and round 1 will be spent on an impact player. Either a WR or pass rusher DE/DT/tweener). If the Giants turn in another losing season, there could be wholesale changes to the team. The coach (and by extension his staff) are likely gone, Eli and JPP could test FA, and the Giants would enter a true rebuilding phase. Not a desirable outcome for any franchise. So going into April 30th, you have to ask yourself what do the Giants believe they need to win in 2015. The team philosophy has always been win the division. So with that in mind, let's consider a few things.

1. The Cowboys have the best OL in football, an all-pro TE and WR, and they could add Adrian Peterson.

2. The Eagles run a wide open offense, under the leadership of an offensive genius with a lot of confidence. They will put up points.

3. The Redskins are a mess, but won't stay a mess forever. They are at their best when RGIII is using his mobility to open up running lanes and setting up big play action pass plays.

Interestingly, the trend in the NFC East is big play offenses. Even the Giants have a big play offense. Would not surprise me in the least if the Giants look at 2015 draft and think they need to revamp the defense by adding more players capable of disrupting Philly's spread offense, battling Dallas' monster OL, and disrupting RGIII's timing. If I'm Reese and Ross I try to grab the best pass rusher/trench player available at #9, and I even go as far as grabbing a tweener if I think he can get to the QB on third down. I love WRs and would be very tempted to take anyone one of the top 3 at #9, but the position is deep and talented. (not like last year but still good) Get a defensive weapon in round 1 and watch the record against the division improve by at least two games from last year.

In comment 12200985 Lionhart28 said:

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but I like Collins better than Scherff. I think he can be an excellent LG and RT but also has the ability to possibly move to LT as well. I wouldnt necessarily be disappointed with Scherff, we could absolutely use a lineman like him but I see a higher ceiling with Collins. Everyone is talking about Scherff's aggressiveness and run blocking, but... "La'el Collins, OL, LSU: It's hard to find a big, athletic blocker with a nasty temperament and polished game, but Collins checks all the boxes. He showed exceptional agility, athleticism and explosiveness during the "Olympic drills" on Friday. Collins clocked 5.12 in the 40-yard dash, which is certainly impressive for a 6-foot-4, 305-pounder with a chiseled frame. In positional drills, Collins flashed exceptional balance, body control and agility. He is surprisingly light on his feet, yet powerful when making contact with defenders at the point of attack. Collins routinely jolted foes with his short punches in blocking drills. Although practice drills aren't a true simulation of game action, the fact that Collins displayed the strength, power and agility of a blue-chip prospect could make him one of the first offensive linemen to come off the board on draft day." NFL.com Article - ( New Window )

To me Collins has huge upside and versatility.

In a vacuum as well, an edge rusher makes the most sense to me at #9.

All of this being said, I'd prefer an edge rusher over any of the OL at #9 as well.

In comment 12201041 JonC said:

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In a vacuum as well, an edge rusher makes the most sense to me at #9.

The only issue I keep running up against is which one! Fowler won't be there (he would be nice), Beasley (who I think can be a RDE in the NFL, similar to Buffalo's Jerry Hughes) might be gone as well. I have concerns about the versatility of Ray and Gregory. Bud Dupree looks good in shorts but looks less impressive in pads (I just seem him round around guys). The true DE I am most intrigued by is Owamagbe Odighizuwa, but is he really worthy of the #9 pick. (I think he would have been minus the injury history) I also like Preston Smith, but he is 2nd round at best.

is Beasley (besides Williams). I like Fowler, but I think he's overhyped. Sure he's a jack of all trades, but he doesn't stand out to me. Collins outplayed him when they went head-to-head.

The other guys just don't impress me too much. Dupree screams Giants pick, but I really hope we go in a different direction.

I think it's the question of the draft for NYG, and right now I don't know the answer! Dupree's upside is intriguing, he brings the size and AA to bring upgraded speed and presence on the edge for Spags. OO is probably the best 4-3 DE fit for NYG, but where does his value actually slot him on draft day. Smith and Anderson at #40 are options, haven't heard Orchard's name since the Combines.

I think Beasley would be tough to turn down, but he should be gone. Gregory concerns me as a fit, but I think NYG would pick him and put him at SAM as well.

In comment 12201077 JonC said:

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I think it's the question of the draft for NYG, and right now I don't know the answer! Dupree's upside is intriguing, he brings the size and AA to bring upgraded speed and presence on the edge for Spags. OO is probably the best 4-3 DE fit for NYG, but where does his value actually slot him on draft day. Smith and Anderson at #40 are options, haven't heard Orchard's name since the Combines. I think Beasley would be tough to turn down, but he should be gone. Gregory concerns me as a fit, but I think NYG would pick him and put him at SAM as well.

I could see Gregory if we didn't already have Kennard at SAM. I think Shane Ray might be the better of the two with his hand in the dirt. If Beasley gets passed up by Atlanta or Chicago (I doubt it) then you run to the podium with the pick.

I wouldn't pass on a rusher in favor of Kennard, and I really like the kid.

In comment 12201107 JonC said:

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I wouldn't pass on a rusher in favor of Kennard, and I really like the kid.

Oh I wouldn't either, but the question is where to play him. Kennard is a proven LOLB while Ray or Gregory would be a question at the position. Maybe Kennard could play ROLB, which could be the case under spags.

I suppose there are options either way. But agree, I think Ray slides.

In comment 12200360 mrvax said:

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from 2013 are much better than Pugh. (Eric Fisher, Luke Joeckel Lane Johnson).

May turn out to be true but all that would mean is that all were picked a round or two too high. Pugh most likely played the best as a rookie but was the worst last year. Time will tell

That's a bit of an overstatement. Like many Giants fans I liked what I saw from his rookie year but he has a lot more to prove before we annoint him at any position. Including staying healthy which was a problem he had in college which reared it's head again as a pro.

I think we can say Kennard is a proven start at LOLB, considering he started there and played very well. My only point was that Gregory and Ray are unknowns as LOLBs in a 4-3. So if you draft one, with the idea of playing them at LOLB, you have to hope Kennard can play ROLB if you want to get him on the field in any meaningful way. I think Kennard can play any of the LB spots, with LOLB and MLB probably being his two best.

Proven doesn't mean all pro or anything, just saying the Giants know what they have in Kennard at LOLB and if they draft one of the tweeners and play the guy at LOLB on 1st and 2nd down, then Kennard goes from a known quantity to an unknown commodity.

In comment 12201148 LauderdaleMatty said:

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In comment 12200360 mrvax said: Quote: from 2013 are much better than Pugh. (Eric Fisher, Luke Joeckel Lane Johnson). May turn out to be true but all that would mean is that all were picked a round or two too high. Pugh most likely played the best as a rookie but was the worst last year. Time will tell

Can you clarify what you mean by the worst.

Worst lineman on the Giants was clearly JD Walton. And I think Eric Fisher has been rather unimpressive in KC.

why would you judge a guy(Pugh) who played much of the year with ONE arm, as harshly as you are? If it was the "worst" then it was a huge mitigating factor "worst," don't you think?

Scherff comes out lat year he is picked in the 20's as most likely Peat and Collins are as well. Where is this all pro ability people see. He is not as good a prospect as Martin at at either T or G. The comparison you see most is Reiley Reiff - Big F'n deal

Is he as good a prospect a J. Cooper, Warmack, Fluker, DeCastro - no. Not with the 9th pick

Mayock thought Cooper was a sure a thing at G as there was. Last year when healthy he could not unseat the immortal Ted Larsen

In comment 12201192 stretch234 said:

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Scherff comes out lat year he is picked in the 20's as most likely Peat and Collins are as well. Where is this all pro ability people see. He is not as good a prospect as Martin at at either T or G. The comparison you see most is Reiley Reiff - Big F'n deal Is he as good a prospect a J. Cooper, Warmack, Fluker, DeCastro - no. Not with the 9th pick Mayock thought Cooper was a sure a thing at G as there was. Last year when healthy he could not unseat the immortal Ted Larsen

I think the value at RT and OG in the draft is in round 2-4.

Scherff, Collins then Peat. Scherff is the only one I'd consider at 9.

I'd take Jake Fisher from Oregon over all 3. He may be the most underrated lineman in the draft. He reminds me of Lane Johnson and Kyle Long.

In comment 12201270 sjnyfan said:

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Scherff, Collins then Peat. Scherff is the only one I'd consider at 9. I'd take Jake Fisher from Oregon over all 3. He may be the most underrated lineman in the draft. He reminds me of Lane Johnson and Kyle Long.

Wish Fisher could make it to #40, but I don't think it happens

That's insanely good. Some WR's didn't time that fast. It would've been #1 for OL in the combine by nearly two tenths (Jake Fisher 7.25) and is the 2nd best over the last 10 years Lydon Murtha--2009).

I see Scherff as a OG like many others. It's very important for an interior lineman to time well in the three cone. If that time is true then he just nailed the top half of the draft if not top 10.

I think he goes in the first and if the Eagles cut Mathis I don't see how he gets past Chip, who recruited him heavily to Oregon.

for opinions. If we can't get the two WRs,Lionhart impresses me regarding Collins.Sounds like a good number one.

and his counterpart Donnal. Good read.
Link - ( New Window )

Nice article

Collins. Trade back if yyou feel he'll be available. If not get lineman you want with the pick.

Iunderstand value and "BPA" but if you have a glaring need and there are solid players there its ok to reach. Get what you need.

I hope they take another lineman in rd 2

wich is what any of these OL would be at 9. scherff is purely a G in the NFL.While shcerff had excellent 3's at the combine if you watch the tape you can see if he were to play OT he would be average at best. Collins on the other hand would be an excellent G and probably has the feet and technique to play RT but 9 is still to high. They should both go somewhere between 15-25 but no earlier then that. Peat on the other hand,based on his inconsistency and body type probably shouldn't be a 1st round pick. Based on potential I'm sure someone will take a chance on him in the 1st. Just Hopefully not the Giants!!!