NFT: Knicks Chat: Melo recruiting Gasol?

In comment 12200524 Enzo said:

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In comment 12200366 DanMetroMan said: Quote: Marc Gasol would need to leave over 30 million dollar on the table to leave a town he "grew up" for a team with the worst record in the NBA, the least future talent in the NBA (on the current roster) etc. It's not happening. is it a lock that Memphis offers him the full 5 year max?

I don't see any reason to believe they won't outside of "working with Gasol" to take a little less to have more to spend on other players. They can offer 30 million more + no state tax. The money won't be even close unless Memphis chooses to let it be so.

don't see any reason Monroe would stop you from taking Towns. If anything Towns is probably "best case" scenario with a Monroe outside of a guy like Cauley Stein (no way am I saying taking him top 3).

so who they draft will be on the team before they start talking to players...

with all the contacts of his accumulated years in the league was supposed to be the recruiter. However, on topic, M Gasol should age well, but I'll take Monroe, as noted above.

In comment 12200558 RetroJint said:

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with all the contacts of his accumulated years in the league was supposed to be the recruiter. However, on topic, M Gasol should age well, but I'll take Monroe, as noted above.

Phil is important but Melo is the one who recruits...

Think about it, If Melo is in the room in 2010 recruiting Lebron with Walsh, isnt that a more impactful recruiting pitch rather than just Walsh and D'antoni...

You need a star player to recruit other star players, players are not going to leave their current team to go to another team without another player already in place....

Nowadays star players are looking to team up so if you have one already in place your ahead of the game...

..

but Miami has everything - great ownership, front office guru with a bunch of rings, South Beach, no state income tax, etc. Can't beat that.

1) I don't think Melo is a great recruiting tool (tough to play since ISO ball is his style, does very little else, not a winner).

2) By Green, do you mean Jeff Green? Why not Tobias Harris as opposed to a tweener forward w a previous/major health issue?

3) Monroe/Jackson would be the best FA duo in my opinion. Towns, Monroe, Melo, Hardaway/Schved, Jackson would be the best cased (reasonable) scenario.

In comment 12200645 bceagle05 said:

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but Miami has everything - great ownership, front office guru with a bunch of rings, South Beach, no state income tax, etc. Can't beat that.

dont get me rong presenting a good management plan to a player is big but ultimately the player is worried about who he is playing with...

If their are no players on the team it doesnt matter how good ownership is no one is going to go there...

In comment 12200658 Pep22 said:

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1) I don't think Melo is a great recruiting tool (tough to play since ISO ball is his style, does very little else, not a winner).

You do know that Lebron wanted Melo to be apart of the big 3...when they first talked Melo was the 3rd guy but Melo instead listening to his Agent at the time and his family took the longer extension rather then taking the shorter one...in turn Lebron recruited Bosh...

The stars in this league do not view Melo like you do...

and he is not a winner? this just makes me laugh....why is he not a winner? becuase he hasnt won a championship?

The guy went to the playoffs every single year in the west, who was the best guy he played with? he carried those teams...

He has won on every level..won in high school, actually beat Lebron when no one was beating Lebron in high school...

Won in College and carried a Syracuse team as freshamn to a national championship...

But yes Melo is not a winner

That one is probably a pipe dream. NyGiants16 I agree having Melo makes us marginally better off than 2010. But these past two years have been such a dumpster fire here I just find it hard to believe that any max guy with other solid options would choose this shit show.

In comment 12200685 Stu11 said:

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That one is probably a pipe dream. NyGiants16 I agree having Melo makes us marginally better off than 2010. But these past two years have been such a dumpster fire here I just find it hard to believe that any max guy with other solid options would choose this shit show.

I agree it puts a damper on things but you may get the players thinking if i team up with Melo we can turn this thing around...

Again will it work? who the hell knows but i do think they are in better shape with melo now then in 2010 going into free agency even with the shit record..

suggest Lebron is the unusual superstar that doesn't care about shots/scoring if he doesn't have to. I think his "wanting to play with Melo" is unusual vs. other "superstars" but I could be wrong.

a winner because he's more interested in getting his shots/stats than things like playing D, running the court, being CONSISTENTLY fit, passing, putting team first (i.e. this latest charade this year when playing in the All Star game trumped what any responsible player would choose.

Syracuse was 12 years ago. High School was....high school, are we really citing high school wins?

In comment 12200712 Pep22 said:

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a winner because he's more interested in getting his shots/stats than things like playing D, running the court, being CONSISTENTLY fit, passing, putting team first (i.e. this latest charade this year when playing in the All Star game trumped what any responsible player would choose. Syracuse was 12 years ago. High School was....high school, are we really citing high school wins?

So him carrying denver to the playoffs in the West doesnt count?

In comment 12200706 DanMetroMan said:

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suggest Lebron is the unusual superstar that doesn't care about shots/scoring if he doesn't have to. I think his "wanting to play with Melo" is unusual vs. other "superstars" but I could be wrong.

Chris Paul wanted to play with Melo

Amar'e Stoudemire wanted to play with Melo

This no one wants to play with Melo baffles me...

if he's not insistent on dominating the ball at all times. I'm hopeful that's the path he takes. I'm a little skeptical of stars wanting to play with him, but he's the least of the Knicks' problems when recruiting FAs. The scarcity of talent on the roster and Jimmy Dolan are the main issues.

In comment 12200431 Stu11 said:

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I learned from that debacle. We will be lucky to lure a decent free agent or two, and definitely not a marquee max type guy without warts. The guy I really point to is Greg Monroe. He's young and wants out of Detroit. Thats the type of guy we land. Not a free agent who would be leaving a 55-60 win contender to join this 15 years and running shit show. Hopefully we get a top 3 pick pair them with Melo land a decent UFA and do some good dumpster diving and start to build something that some elite player wants to join next off season.

I agree Stu the Knicks should focus on Monroe as he is younger and on the rise.

"Eli is not a leader" analysis. The same amount of thought seems to go into it, too.

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is Melo's proof that he's a winner? Wow, low standards.

that he carried those teams by himself...

You say all he does is ISo and take all the shots...ok so who is he supposed to pass to? who was the POint Guard on his team that was going to set up the offense?

When he played with a competent PG he made it to the West Finals...

You realize the teams he lost to in the playoffs were the Spurs and Lakers...the only time his team was favored and lost in the west was when they played Utah and George Karl had to leave the team...

So by your standards is Barkley a winner? Ewing? Reggie Miller? Chris Webber? Steve Nash? Tim Hardaway? Bernard King? Dominique Wilkins? John Stockton? Karl Malone?

By your standards who are winners? is it only the players that won championships?

Ewing? Reggie Miller? Chris Webber? Steve Nash? Tim Hardaway? John Stockton? Karl Malone?

All these guys had repeated playoff success (i.e. many series won). Carmelo has won 2 playoff series in his whole career.

I am not a big fan at all, I used to be back in the Reed/Fazier/DeBusschere/Barnett/Bradley/Russel/Stallworth/Riordan days. I also was a big fan in the Ewing Era. I gave up, the last of it was the Marbury days, I still keep an eye on them, and I actually watched them when they had the kid Jeremy Lin here playing has ass off, I purchased the package and watched them that season, then they didn't resign him and I said fuck them again. So I am not a great Knicks fan, I admit it, since I did leave the diehard fan base.

But when they added Phil Jackson to the mix, I started to keep an eye out once again. Looking at the team right now I am starting to try to hope once again. If they are able to land either Okafor or Towns for the 2015/1016 season, plus add another very good piece on top of that in this off season, add some of the important role players, then add another piece in the 2016/2017 off season, then add another piece in the 2017/2018 off season, at that point I think that with Jackson having the team for 3 1/2 years, and having had 4 off seasons to add the pieces needed to make this team a championship caliber team, the team could be ready to challenge and also finally have the base to build off of to keep them relevant for a good 10 year run, now they will be replacing Melo, but he has a max contract, and they should be able to add the right player/players needed at that point to keep things rolling.

Maybe I am all wrong, and I want to hear what people think of if they are also hoping for this but think that this is not going to work for whatever reason/reasons, I sure would love to hear your input.

he didn't singlehandedly carry them. He could've gotten better PG play but those Denver teams had talent.

IMO Nuggets Melo was grossly overrated. He was never even remotely close to being a Top 5 player in the league. He was a borderline Top 10 player during his best years in Denver.

Knicks Melo has been better. The 3pt shot has helped his game. But the problem with Melo is that I think '13/'14 will go down as his peak seasons. He was a Top 7/8ish player during that 2-year span. I thought he was the 4th best player in the world in '13.

Now in his 30s and coming off of an injury-plagued season, I just can't see him ever being a Top 8 player in the league again. Too many young guys have passed him up this year.

I think he can still be a valuable piece to a successful machine like older Pierce was to the Celtics. But the Knicks have a long way to go to create a team like that.

In comment 12200859 Pep22 said:

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Ewing? Reggie Miller? Chris Webber? Steve Nash? Tim Hardaway? John Stockton? Karl Malone? All these guys had repeated playoff success (i.e. many series won). Carmelo has won 2 playoff series in his whole career.

Name me the great player Melo played with? he was by himself with those teams and carried them...but you just keep ignoring that fact...

When he actually had a good player next to him in Billups he sacrificed Shots and points for the betterment of the team and they went to the West Finals...


Ok here is a better comparison..was KG a winner BEFORE he went to Boston?

In comment 12200893 Osi Osi Osi OyOyOy said:

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he didn't singlehandedly carry them. He could've gotten better PG play but those Denver teams had talent.

What talent did they have?

Kenyon Martin who was always injured?

Marcus Camby?

Iverson and Billups were the 2 most talented players he played with and went to the West Finals with Billups..

I just think the argument that Melo is not a winner is stupid but i guess that is just me...

Let's take this in a slightly different direction. Is Melo the type to sacrifice his numbers for the good of the team? Will he put team 1st (I am referring to this year's debacle where playing in a damn As game trumped getting a jump on rehab? Is he consistently in top physical condition? Does he defend? Does he make others better? Is he a leader?

Andre Miller (a more than solid, smart vet PG)
Nene/Camby/K-Mart (an awesome frontcourt)
later he got JR who was a scorer off the bench
He played with a still-in-his-prime Iverson
He played with a still-in-his-prime Billups

Not all in the same year obviously, but he definitely had talent around him. Nothing spectacular, but he only averaged like 47 wins a year with that cast nothing amazing.

Melo was def the MVP of the team but this wasn't Cleveland LeBron or Orlando T-Mac or Minny Garnett. That Nene/Camby/K-Mart frontcourt was really impressive.

and his lack of D and PG skills really limit the way he can impact a game.

But I think Melo definitely makes others around him better. His presence on the floor alone opens things up so much for the offense. Did you forget the '13 season when the Knicks O was elite due to Melo? Sure Tyson/Felton PnRs were a huge part of that offense, and Kidd's BBIQ just elevated the whole team on both sides of the ball. But Melo made that offense go.

If Melo just had a Teague-level PG in '13 instead of Ray friggn' Felton, Knicks might've gotten a ring.


I think it's an absolute joke that the Knicks have yet to surround Melo with a great creator off the dribble at the PG position. Calderon is smart, but he is a limited player due tot his athleticism. Melo's lack of playmaking skills mean tha the Knicks desperately need a PG. And yet they haven't given Melo a single good PG outside of a 20-game run from Lin.

Melo never had that guy on Denver to take the pressure off until he had Iverson or Billups...

Nene/Camby/Kmart was a very good frontline if they could ever stay healthy...

Martin missed a total of 169 in 6 years with Melo

Camby missed 57 in th3 4 years with Melo and Martin

Nene Missed 131 in those years with Camby Melo and Martin

So they missed a ton of games together...

I watched a lot of Denver when Melo was there...they were the team i watched a lot since the Knicks sucked so bad and i wanted to root for someone in the playoffs...

Those teams were fun to watch they played up tempo, not ISO ball like PEP thinks all Melo does, the one thing that killed them was Health...

I thought Iverson and Melo could make it work but they never had the guy who could push them off the ball and feed them...they never had that guy to set up the offense..

With Billups Melo adapted his game and played within the offense he didnt take over he let Billups run the offense and get people involved.

In comment 12200954 Osi Osi Osi OyOyOy said:

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I think it's an absolute joke that the Knicks have yet to surround Melo with a great creator off the dribble at the PG position. Calderon is smart, but he is a limited player due tot his athleticism. Melo's lack of playmaking skills mean tha the Knicks desperately need a PG. And yet they haven't given Melo a single good PG outside of a 20-game run from Lin.

Couldn't agree with you more with this statement..everyone wants to blame Melo for the offensive troubles but how about you look at his teammates..

People complain about ISO but who is he supposed to pass to? he is it the guy that has to take over..

In comment 12200383 Deej said:

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In comment 12200363 Greg from LI said: Quote: to join a dumpster fire? Never happen. So this is weird. If I do a Google image search for dumpster fire, about 90% of the first 100 hits are the same image. Never seen anything like it before, but apparently this is THE dumpster fire: Link - ( New Window )

I say if we "flame out" this offseason we should officially petition the Knicks to change their logo to this. Honestly I associate this image much more with a "Knick" than early dutch settlers or the early New York aristocracy.

Nothing would make me happier than to see Andrea with this flaming dumpster on his chest. Let's make it happen! Power to the people!

This google image discovery might be the highlight of this season for me.

I don't think Melo can mesh well with a Rondo like PG. Melo likes/needs to dribble/dominate the ball too much to allow others to handle it with that much regularity. I think he needs a catch and shoot PG like Brandon Knight.

In comment 12201007 Pep22 said:

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I don't think Melo can mesh well with a Rondo like PG. Melo likes/needs to dribble/dominate the ball too much to allow others to handle it with that much regularity. I think he needs a catch and shoot PG like Brandon Knight.

have you ever watched Melo play when he has a competent PG? he is very good off the ball...

Olympic Melo is great off the ball...he is a very good to great mid range shooter...he would be great with a rondo type as his PG...

on Rondo. Don't want him under any circumstance.

In comment 12201033 MookGiants said:

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on Rondo. Don't want him under any circumstance.

I think its Rondo TYPE not Rondo in particular...i think he means a pass first point guard in general...

In comment 12200859 Pep22 said:

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Ewing? Reggie Miller? Chris Webber? Steve Nash? Tim Hardaway? John Stockton? Karl Malone? All these guys had repeated playoff success (i.e. many series won).

With really damn good rosters around them.

on the Olympic team. Would be interesting to see if he play a style that would lend itself to cohesiveness if not playing with Lebron (who lets face it, makes the game easier for others).

if he had a good PG to set him up. Olympic Melo is so fun to watch. I really want to see Olympic Melo get a chance to play in the NBA. He needs a legit PG for that.

In comment 12201057 Pep22 said:

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on the Olympic team. Would be interesting to see if he play a style that would lend itself to cohesiveness if not playing with Lebron (who lets face it, makes the game easier for others).

The thing with Melo is we have only seen him play with same tier guys on the Olympic team and All Star games..we have not seen it for 82 games and playoffs...

Olympics he plays very unselfishly but again that is different than the NBA...

Truth is we do not know how Melo will play if the Knicks get another top guy...

I will say this if they do somehow land Gasol and Okafor, The Triangle will be a big help if they do not land a top PG because it will bring ball movement to the offense rather than post Melo up and wait for double like with Woodson....

We saw in LA when they had Kobe Bynum and Pao...they didnt have a pass first PG to run the offense and it worked great...

Same thing here IF they get Gasol and Okafor...

Well said.

That Phil gives Bynum a chance,if healthy of course..

- STAT for 20+ games before his injury?
- past his prime Allen Iverson?
- past his prime Chauncey Billups?
- Nene Hilario?
- Ty Lawson's first 100 games in the NBA?

Can we be surprised by the lack of postseason success with those teammates? I'll never be comfortable saying Melo can't do something when I haven't seem him with actual prime level talent. The sad thing is due to the injury/age, we might not see it anyway.

Look back to Phil's Bulls and Lakers teams - when did he ever have a 1 who played anything like Rondo? He didn't. They all could shoot, though, which Rondo can't do. John Paxon in the Bulls' championship years was a 40+ percent three point shooter. BJ Armstrong, same thing. Derek Fisher, same thing.

Were still in their prime and killing it when they played with Melo.

a big man, I can see them signing Brook Lopez.

In comment 12201434 Osi Osi Osi OyOyOy said:

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Were still in their prime and killing it when they played with Melo.

Iverson had been in the league 12 years when he was traded to Denver. Still in his prime? Eh, even if you think he was, he only played in Denver for 1 complete season. The others were partial seasons.

leaves the Grizz for the Knicks. I'd love it, but it ain't happening. Same with Aldridge.

There's no way he was in his prime 12 years in once he got to Denver.