Conspiracy theory ? - Puzzled by Giants moves.

the different threads and catch up a bit.

In comment 12201460 Randy in CT said:

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the different threads and catch up a bit.

Hey randy.

I thought i did, i did not see any real reasoning coming from the Giants on this that makes sense... other than the obvious from TC, how he wants Eli focused and not thinking contract.

There are a few starting OL left out there that could be solid starters at LG and the safety field was extremely thin and there's even one possible FA safety left, too. The Eli extension is not that bothersome to me. I think it will get done.

Affected our plan this offseason. However, if they really wanted to get this done they wouldn't have waited until the last possible second. I think they should have gotten this done up to a year ago.

This stupid mentality of them wanting to see him in the new offense cannot be right. It would have been a perfect time to sign him at a discount. I'm guessing this may have more to do with Eli's side than anything else. But that is just speculation.

In comment 12201473 robbieballs2003 said:

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Affected our plan this offseason. However, if they really wanted to get this done they wouldn't have waited until the last possible second. I think they should have gotten this done up to a year ago. This stupid mentality of them wanting to see him in the new offense cannot be right. It would have been a perfect time to sign him at a discount. I'm guessing this may have more to do with Eli's side than anything else. But that is just speculation.

Hey Robbie. That is what I am getting at, is Eli like hard fast going for the HUGE ass cash grab. I mean, how could they be so far apart.

You'd like to think he'd offer a small % discount rather than press to once again be the highest paid QB in the league if those are his demands. Guess we'll find out as this all unfolds.

Is here for certain for another 2 years, after the 2 years are up, which will cost the Giants about 20 mil in 2015, and by my estimates about 23 mil in 2016 under the franchise tag, that is 43 mil for 2 years, where is the problem with that, it is high, but it is short, after the 2016 season, it is possible that at 35 years of age, Eli may be willing to sign a much more cap friendly contract, any long term deal now is at the same rate for more years, why in the world would the Giants do that! It keeps the GIANTS in control, and that is important at this point of Eli's career, one bad injury can change everything, look at Peyton now. I do not think that Eli's contract is at all an issue.

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I am very surprised that we are so thin at safety after many FAs came off the board.

They competed hard for the highest priced one, but McCourty just used them to set the price for his return to New England. After that, it was a matter of not paying plus player prices for unspecial safeties.

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I am very surprised that we have not gone after a strong starting OL in FA yet.

Right or wrong, it appears the Giants strategy is to add a starting OL via the draft.

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I am very surprised that we made little to no attempt at keeping Rolle.

They didn't want him back. It's time for new leadership on defense. The old leadership resulted in WR's running free all over the secondary because they weren't all on the same page.

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I am very surprised that Eli is not only not signed to an extension, that it looks like the Giants will let him play out 2015.

When he does sign a new deal (and he will) it will be for $20+M/year, so why not get one last year out of him making "only" $17M?

The Giants weren't hamstrung in free agency because of Eli's cap hit, they were hamstrung by a seller's market that saw teams with boatloads of cap room splashing around in a very shallow pool of free agent talent.

think the Giants would keep Rolle considering that this price wouldn't fall to far from his 9 million dollar number he got last season, but when I saw that he got 3 mill something, I was surprised the G Men didn't make a bid to keep him aboard. This could be a smart move. We shall see. Eli business I think will take care of itself. He is not a top 5 QB. He is worth what Big Ben got and no more, unless he gets to the SB in 15. I don't rule that possibility out but I would have to wager that the Giants are more likely to fall just short of the playoffs and his price would either stay the same or it might be a little lower. Starting OL in FA, never expected it.

In comment 12201501 Glover said:

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Eli business I think will take care of itself. He is not a top 5 QB. He is worth what Big Ben got and no more, unless he gets to the SB in 15.

That's the thing: in terms of dollars the only way it backfires on the Giants is if Eli wins another Super Bowl next year and that's a "downside" the Giants will gladly accept.

In comment 12201501 Glover said:

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think the Giants would keep Rolle considering that this price wouldn't fall to far from his 9 million dollar number he got last season, but when I saw that he got 3 mill something, I was surprised the G Men didn't make a bid to keep him aboard. This could be a smart move. We shall see. Eli business I think will take care of itself. He is not a top 5 QB. He is worth what Big Ben got and no more, unless he gets to the SB in 15. I don't rule that possibility out but I would have to wager that the Giants are more likely to fall just short of the playoffs and his price would either stay the same or it might be a little lower. Starting OL in FA, never expected it.

According to Rolle the Giants FO reached out to him right be fore he signed to deal trying to sign him back.

A) Reese is trying to get Coughlin fired?

B) Reese is trying to get himself fired?

C) Mara is trying to get Reese and Coughlin fired

D) The NFL is conspiring against the Giants and making all the best free agents sign with other teams?

E) None of the above, other_______

F) All of the above

conspiracy theory, as in, Tom Quinn is a mole in the pay of Dan Snyder. In the immortal words of Crocodile Dundee about his knife (pronounced noyf) "That's a conspiracy theory!"

THIS IS A CONSPIRACY THEORY!

what a conspiracy theory is. Quinn is not mole or in the pay of Dan Snyder.

But remember the safety free agents worth investing in were few and far. I've read the Giants did make a very competitive offer to Devin McCourty who returned to the Patriots.

It's not like they aren't trying. I too hope Eli's next Giants contract (I'm 99.9% sure he'll get one during the season or before) will be a good deal for the team too. Eli=big chunk of cap pie.

In comment 12201557 Marty in Albany said:

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what a conspiracy theory is. Quinn is not mole or in the pay of Dan Snyder.

Sometimes I wonder...

would've only mattered if we wanted to get a top tier FA, we obviously didn't. We have a ton of options after this season now. From extend and go to start over and any where in between.

I have no expectations going into this season other than slightly improved offense and defense.

In comment 12201494 Milton said:

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Quote: I am very surprised that we are so thin at safety after many FAs came off the board. They competed hard for the highest priced one, but McCourty just used them to set the price for his return to New England. After that, it was a matter of not paying plus player prices for unspecial safeties. Quote: I am very surprised that we have not gone after a strong starting OL in FA yet. Right or wrong, it appears the Giants strategy is to add a starting OL via the draft. Quote: I am very surprised that we made little to no attempt at keeping Rolle. They didn't want him back. It's time for new leadership on defense. The old leadership resulted in WR's running free all over the secondary because they weren't all on the same page. Quote: I am very surprised that Eli is not only not signed to an extension, that it looks like the Giants will let him play out 2015. When he does sign a new deal (and he will) it will be for $20+M/year, so why not get one last year out of him making "only" $17M? The Giants weren't hamstrung in free agency because of Eli's cap hit, they were hamstrung by a seller's market that saw teams with boatloads of cap room splashing around in a very shallow pool of free agent talent.

Hey milton.

If I take all these points to be benign, I agree... and I certainly hope u r correct sir.

I just want Eli here forever with no issues and I do not like this potential posturing.

I hadn't thought of that aspect before, but it's an interesting point. The fact they offered McCourty that big deal suggests they could have signed a big-name free agent if they wanted to though.

What has happened to BBI?

off-season, even when they had a log of cap space.

No conspiracy. Just another bad effort by a front office that looked good for a couple of years, but since then has just ruled over a team that has had less and less talent on the roster every year.

In fact, they started taking the team apart in 2010, the year before the last championship, Jerry released Seubert (BBI Giant of the year?) and O'Hara because, I don't know, they were around thirty years old and O'Hara had missed a lot of games due to injury and maybe he would have had to pay them a little more money.

So he breaks up a tight, integrated unit that in 2010 had allowed 16 sacks and supported a running game that gained 2200 yards at 4.8/carry. The new, improved line in 2011 allowed 30 sacks and propelled a rushing game that gained I think a league low of 1600 yards at 3.6/carry.

Five years later and the line is still a major concern. Very simple cause and effect. Just extend this to all the other units of the team any you see a poor GM and staff systematically weaken the talent on the roster until we have a losing team. Rolle may or may not have played really poorly last season but the fact is we now have two holes at safety and whomever we get to replace Rolle is not going to be as good as Rolle even last year.

So at safety Reese has just opened another hole instead of filling one. Two holes if you include Will Hill.

I write as such a pessimist only because I want to see the team win. I lived through a seventeen year stretch of winless seasons. It sucks. My definition of winning means putting up more Wins. I doesn't include having the most Eagle scouts on your team or not paying a single player a dollar more than he is worth.

O'Hara wasn't even up to snuff when the Dolphins checked in on him late in 2011.

I'm all for criticizing Reese when he deserves it and for his likely role in what the team has become, but getting after him for letting two guys go that ended up retiring without playing another snap because they pretty much had to is nonsensical.

is NYG has chosen to be fiscally responsible.

Fans see McCourty and want him signed, no matter what. The team makes a bold offer and falls short. They stuck to the $ value assigned to the player, they chose to not overpay. This is the smart UFA approach. Last season they spent like a drunken sailor with mediocre results.

In a cap league, a team with a significant number of holes is being cautious with handing out UFA dollars. There's a reasonably good chance this roster as is needs more than just this offseason to infuse talent. It doesn't mean the team can't make noise in 2015, but it means a patient, longer term perspective is required.

In comment 12202200 Reese's Pieces said:

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off-season, even when they had a log of cap space. No conspiracy. Just another bad effort by a front office that looked good for a couple of years, but since then has just ruled over a team that has had less and less talent on the roster every year. In fact, they started taking the team apart in 2010, the year before the last championship, Jerry released Seubert (BBI Giant of the year?) and O'Hara because, I don't know, they were around thirty years old and O'Hara had missed a lot of games due to injury and maybe he would have had to pay them a little more money. So he breaks up a tight, integrated unit that in 2010 had allowed 16 sacks and supported a running game that gained 2200 yards at 4.8/carry. The new, improved line in 2011 allowed 30 sacks and propelled a rushing game that gained I think a league low of 1600 yards at 3.6/carry. Five years later and the line is still a major concern. Very simple cause and effect. Just extend this to all the other units of the team any you see a poor GM and staff systematically weaken the talent on the roster until we have a losing team. Rolle may or may not have played really poorly last season but the fact is we now have two holes at safety and whomever we get to replace Rolle is not going to be as good as Rolle even last year. So at safety Reese has just opened another hole instead of filling one. Two holes if you include Will Hill. I write as such a pessimist only because I want to see the team win. I lived through a seventeen year stretch of winless seasons. It sucks. My definition of winning means putting up more Wins. I doesn't include having the most Eagle scouts on your team or not paying a single player a dollar more than he is worth.

LOL. If the glass isn't full, it's the end of the world. Hell, you're not a pessimist, you're a defeatist.

season. O'Hara played in 78 of 80 games between 2005 and 2009. In 2010 he was injured and only played in six games, but was probably ready to return. The two-time Pro Bowl starter was never give the chance to see. Both were shocked when they were cut. And the stats speak for themselves.

I'm OK with the cuts if Reese in the next two or three years through the draft and free agency comes up with a talented new line through the draft and free-agency.

A defeatist. Maybe. That's what Hitler used to call anyone who suggested to him that the war wasn't going so well anymore.

There are some players on the roster who could break out. Some holes in the defense can be covered up by one dominant player, like JPP in 2011. I'm just disappointed that we've gone this far into free agency without signing a major Free agent.

Meanwhile Dallas gets the woman beater Hardy and has the best paper pass rush in our division.

Do you really think this team, given the loyalty shown to players such as Snee and Baas more recently, would throwaway two valued OL if they could still perform?

or deals like JPP and Eli where they weren't extended, just tells me that the Giants have put virtually everyone on notice. IT's win or else.

Eli will get done no matter what but I don't think it's a stretch to say that Reese and Mara didn't want to commit to anyone long term because this team may get blown the fuck up in another year--Eli being the exception...probably.

If this team goes 7-9 and Eli did have a bad year....then what? We would all be shocked and unhappy but at the same time, relieved that NY isn't on the hook for 5 years and 100 million....I don't even want to think of that scenario but it's a possibility.

to completely lose faith and believe the front office is run by barely functional adults.

and I won't lie I am always gonna lean a bit to the optimistic side, but some people around here are frickin ridiculous. Negative doesn't come close.

In comment 12202433 Reese's Pieces said:

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season. A defeatist. Maybe. That's what Hitler used to call anyone who suggested to him that the war wasn't going so well anymore.

Well, that's the most novel use of a Nazi reference that I've seen. A real "say what?" moment.

for the first time in thirty years and I have Hitler carved into my brain. If this were a novel it would be criticized by everyone as too preposterous for the author to be taken seriously.

For you who keep insisting that Seubert and the voted Pro Bowl center O'Hara had nothing left, remember the stats.

2010: 16 sacks allowed -- 2011: 28 sacks allowed
2011: 4.8 yards per rushing attempt -- 2011: 3.6 yards

As I recall, when Eric put up his select-one poll on how many games the Giants would win in 2014, two-thirds of voters picked 10 games or more.

So I'm really out of sync with the mainstream here.

When Seubert was voted Giant of the year by BBI, did Eric and Rich's supporters expect him to be cut?

I forgot to list the stats for one other season:

2014: Sacks allowed - 30, Rushing yardage - 3.6 yards per carry.

Not much progress in 5 years.

OK, I'm gone with my unwanted doubts about the future of this team. No one will be happier than myself if the Giants make the playoffs this season.

Seubert and O'Hara to be released. - ( New Window )

In comment 12202200 Reese's Pieces said:

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I lived through a seventeen year stretch of winless seasons.

Were you rooting for Columbia?

Between 1964 and 1980 the Giants went 17 years without making the post-season. But they did have two seasons with more wins than losses, reaching in 1970 the heights of nine victories.