This draft is very deep at wide receiver.

There is another deep and talented class.

With that said, if Cooper or White are available you have to take them.

you won't find a GM that will pass on a premier talent at a premier position because a guy in round 3 may work out, if he's even there at all.

because there is a growing concern with:

1- avoiding physical contact because lawsuits are bad; and,
2- increasing offense because fantasy sports and gambling are good.

You can almost take it to the bank that every draft will be very deep at wide receiver for the foreseeable.

Among those you mention, I particularly like Devin Smith. Evaluations pretty uniformly say he has blazing speed. (Which he doesn't) Catches long balls well. (Which he does) And has problems with shorter routes to the degree that it's questionable whether he'll be productive in that area. (But I see a WR who looks pretty damned good there as well.)

Can play inside with shifty cuts or outside going vertical...good starting prospect and fits Macs scheme nicely.

To grab a wideout who can come down with the ball in traffic opposite OBJ - especially in the red zone.

Is gonna be a starter level guy quite likely 3 rd round or later.

i like tony lippett too (michigan state). kind of a poor man's plaxico burress
guy always seemed to come up huge when they needed him. clutch player
could replace Randle on the outside if Randle moves on

I just want someone who runs precise routes and has great hands.

There is a big difference between a top ten slot difference maker and another WR.

A difference maker forces safety help

Takes a safety out of the box

forces the number one Cb to defend him...and very few secondaries can defend two difference makers

Is a threat in the green zone

By pushing back the safeties it makes blitzing dangerous to try and defending the run hard to do.

Gives the QB more options faster after the snap thereby lessening the strain on the OL

Now similarly, a OG is not an OG if they can:

Stonewall their man in the playoffs

Enable many different kinds of line play for runners

Squash pressure on the QB...all the time

There was a time when if it was late in the game and it was anything short of 3rd and 5 everyone facing Pittsburgh and everyone in the stands knew it was going to be the Bus and he was coming behind Faneca. It Was. It worked.

That's a round one top ten slot OG

Similarly an OL who is able to play LT at a high level and can start in year one.

There should not be many 9 slots we get to take in a decade...

Lastly, I think the talent in this draft is often and at all positions in the Giants scheme...below last year.

All three elite WR in 2015 would be behind OBJ. Ditto every single OL is behind Martin.

We are stuck at mediocre...stuck. and so depth is not going to win more than a game ...if we are lucky on injuries.

I fear our top pick has to relatively clearly lead to 1-2 wins ...or we will see 7-9...and gyrate between 6-10 and 9-7 for a long time. and I say that because the number of FA each year will be a lot for us given the failure of 5 of 7 drafts and career injuries to 1-3 first three round players.

We have depth at WR...we need to many other positions. Imho, if we don't draft a top three WR ( don't know enough about Parker)...id build elsewhere. imho

Easy to say now the WRs are worse than Beckham but Cooper is a much more highly valued prospect than Beckham was at this time in his career.

Once they play in the pros we all know much more but Cooper would probably still be #1 WR if he was in last year's class. White I think you might be right but he'd be close to Beckham and Parker still has a legit top 20 shot. I think people forget ODB was regularly considered late teens, early twenties last year.

I see the big three WRs as broadly comparable to last years.

Makes sense. Thanks. And all due Respect EA.

had 6-7 very good WR prospects with 3 in the top 15. Followed up by a carbon-draft in 2015 WRs.

A really good WR is very valuable and if you have the chance, you take him. Getting one in FA (think Wallace) is very expensive.

I can see the Giants taking any of the top 3, Cruz is totally unknown and past history in NY with WR injuries doesn't make me feel all warm and fuzzy.

Randle could be on his last year too. He may want 7-9M per if his stats are good in 2015.

In comment 12201614 robbieballs2003 said:

Quote:

There is another deep and talented class. With that said, if Cooper or White are available you have to take them.

Why? If Beasley is there? Fowler? I'd take either over both. If they are gone ok but it's too early to insist a postion.

but rather he understands WR could present the best value if one of them slips to #9. The top edge rushers are tweeners in a 4-3, NYG needs to mitigate the risk at that pick.

We have too many serious holes to fill. Our needs at other positions are so great that we MUST pass up any temptation to take a talented WR in the first three rounds. Lets fix the holes first and to hell with BPA! BPA is not a good strategy when you have so many other serious needs and play in a strong division.

Besides, what good is another WR when you can't get your offense on the field and can't give your QB 3 seconds to unload the ball?

In comment 12202066 nicky43 said:

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Besides, what good is another WR when you can't get your offense on the field and can't give your QB 3 seconds to unload the ball?

I'm confused. Eli can't have 3 seconds to throw, but he threw it 600 times last season for 4400 yards and 30 touchdowns. Which is it?

Also, what happens to this offense if Beckham gets hurt? How can you say WR isn't a need when Cruz is still rediscovering how to run on his legs.

and understanding how to utilize premium draft picks wisely is getting really annoying around here.

It's really mind-numbing. It's starting to affect my life...lol

The same people who want Cruz to start the season on PUP then state that WR is a "luxury" or not a "need".

If we can get a WR at #9, and a RT at #40, I'd dance a diddy.

In comment 12202092 JonC said:

Quote:

and understanding how to utilize premium draft picks wisely is getting really annoying around here.

Jon: a very high percentage of posters are not thinking this through clearly. We all know we need a better Oline and pass rushers. The value is just not there at #9 unless a non-tweener drops. None of the Oline guys are worth a #9.

Do the Giants just say "fuck it" and take the best Online or defender just because of a desperate need? Can't a need pick wait until round 2 and you you take your shot at best play maker at #9? That how we ending up with Beckham last year.

Thankfully the Giants staff isn't thinking the same way as average fans.

lessens the need for a WR at the very top of the draft imo. 3rd or 4th round in a very deep class can provide a quality starting player. Conversely if you covet an elite pass rusher or OL you better get him by pick #40 imo. This roster needs balance and the defense is in desperate need of playmakers.

We have a stable of talented weapons that can impact in the passing game. Backs as well as receivers. OBJ/Randle/Vereen/Jennings/Donnell/Harris/Parker. Note that I didn't include VC in that group(despite good reports on his progress and medical data in favor of his effective return). The cupboard is far from bare. That said if WR is clearly the best impact talent when we are on the clock I would pick one. Cooper especially for me is a prospect we can't pass on.

will be the ones demanding firings and screaming about incompetence god-forbid the starting WRs need to be Randle, Ogletree, and Parker again.

In comment 12202087 Ten Ton Hammer said:

Quote:

In comment 12202066 nicky43 said: Quote: I'm confused. Eli can't have 3 seconds to throw, but he threw it 600 times last season for 4400 yards and 30 touchdowns. Which is it? Also, what happens to this offense if Beckham gets hurt? How can you say WR isn't a need when Cruz is still rediscovering how to run on his legs.

Oh yea, I forgot, we had such a great season last year that we get to pick 9th this year. Obviously the 4400 yards for 30 TDs wasn't enough. But if that's enough for you than why do we need another WR? And if you want to blame it on Defense than surely we need to fill some defensive holes before adding another WR.

And what happens when Schwartz goes down again and if Pugh gets injured or Beatty gets injured? And I even hate to think we have to start Beatty again.

I understand how some can over value the WR position but I don't understand ignoring how pathetically horrible our o-line is and not just at giving Eli time to throw the ball. I'm sick of seeing our RBs getting tackled at the same time Eli is handing them the ball! We have good RBs but yet we can't run the ball.

I don't disagree and I'm on the record as wanting a pass rusher at #9, but if Cooper slips to #9 it would appear to be a no-brainer given the dearth of strong fits among the pass rusher options.

'We all know we need a better Oline and pass rushers. The value is just not there at #9'. Perhaps the sheer volume of posters disagreeing with this idea is an indication it isn't as cut and dried as you would like to believe.

Beasley is a value pick #9 imo. His freakish athleticism and production as a pass rusher don't come along very often. Bruce Irvin and Von Miller have successfully capitalized on their talent why can't Beasley?

Brandon Scherff represents value imo. His athletic testing carrying a fit 320# is impressive. He's been well schooled by some of the best O-Line coaching in college and is widely considered a plug-n-play prospect. His power game addresses an area we are clearly deficient in. Zack Martin transformed a decent cowboys line into a dominant unit. Can't Scherff have a similar impact for us?

JonC mentioned annoying...the single most annoying thing on BBI is people stating their opinions as facts. You don't have to be a WR/DE/CB/QB to be an impact player. You just have to be really good.

If a WR carries a 90 grade and your top OL carries an 85, who are you picking at #9?

WTF does this even mean? The Beatty hate around here ranks amongst the dumbest things posted on the site. And that's saying a lot.

That's how terrible the offensive line was for him.

The offensive line wasn't what we're used to seeing, but it's time to stop the drama. The sky isn't falling. They need to get better at run-blocking.

And as great as the offense looked at times, they are one injury to Beckham away from being dreadful. The most injured team in football for back to back years can't roll the dice that he's just going to be healthy all year, especially the number of times he touches the ball.

And yeah, they do need defensive help. That doesn't mean burning a #9 overall pick on a 3-4 defensive outside linebacker makes sense or is best for the team.

But he isn't a pure 4-3 DE. And for Scherff- The GM flat out said he wouldn't take a G at #9 if a "playmaker" (WR/LT/DE/CB) were available.

Are you going to argue that?

In comment 12202135 Torrag said:

Quote:

lessens the need for a WR at the very top of the draft imo. 3rd or 4th round in a very deep class can provide a quality starting player. Conversely if you covet an elite pass rusher or OL you better get him by pick #40 imo. This roster needs balance and the defense is in desperate need of playmakers. We have a stable of talented weapons that can impact in the passing game. Backs as well as receivers. OBJ/Randle/Vereen/Jennings/Donnell/Harris/Parker. Note that I didn't include VC in that group(despite good reports on his progress and medical data in favor of his effective return). The cupboard is far from bare. That said if WR is clearly the best impact talent when we are on the clock I would pick one. Cooper especially for me is a prospect we can't pass on.

Absolutely right, we do need balance. We need balance as far as a good offense and a good defense and we have plenty of holes on defense now. We also need balance on offense to have both a running game and a passing game. We can't run the ball with our current o-line and there in lies the problem that is also hurting our passing game. In my regular fan opinion, when you have such a glaring need as we have at o-line to give us just a chance at having a running game that would also improve our passing game then I say to fuck with BPA. And didn't we just pick up a nice pass catching RB.

Some say the o-line talent in this draft is not good enough for the ninth pick. So then trade down if you have to but FIX the problem this team has been suffering for three years now! Also, the o-line talent left by the 2nd round likely will be of lesser talent than what we could get in the first round and we can't afford to gamble with the o-line now. The situation is too critical!

I understand the logic behind BPA but I don't agree you have to use it all the time and to me, the time when you don't use it is when you have a serious glaring need that MUST be filled. And not being able to present a running game to me is a very serious need. We all saw how not being able to run the ball became so obvious that it started to negatively impact our passing game. I think there was one game last year when three quarters into the game we still had negative rushing yards. We just can't keep trying to run the ball for minus 3 yards.

In comment 12202190 JonC said:

Quote:

If a WR carries a 90 grade and your top OL carries an 85, who are you picking at #9?

My last post answers this but I would pick the OL guy THIS YEAR because our need at that position is too critical now. Sometimes you just can't afford to go BPA.

paired with the "I'd trade down."

That's the howl of the BBI mouth breather in the wild.

will be Spags. PF's blitzes were just awful. Poorly designed and executed. Spags alone is likely to improve the defense.

But as Sy'56 said, the drop from Scherff, Peat and Collins to the guys available for OG at #40 is negligible. Should Cooper or White be available a #9 (maybe Gregory or Beasley), then there is plenty of OL help at #40.

In comment 12202203 drkenneth said:

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WTF does this even mean? The Beatty hate around here ranks amongst the dumbest things posted on the site. And that's saying a lot.

I don't hate Beatty. I think he's a fine backup player for depth. Our o-line was so bad last year that I'll admit Beatty was one of our strongest guys out there in 2014. He sucked completely in 2013. He's too inconsistent for me to be comfortable with him as our starter. That is why I hate to even think that we will have no choice but to start him in all games next year. And what's worse, so far from the moves we have made or haven't made this off season, he just may be one of the strongest guys on the line this year. If you feel good about that than you probably think our o-line isn't bad at all.

mantra. Its as if Reese can trade down with himself at the drop of a hat.

WE are picking #9 which means we have a shot at a true difference maker on the field. Personally, I don't care what position its for (outside of QB of course) I just want a stud somewhere on the field that the opposition has to factor in on every single snap.

To me, and based on my very limited scouting skills (AKA most of BBI), WR if Cooper/White are available will be, bar far, provide the most value and in turn help us win the most games.

I'd be all for DE if we weren't taking a guy we'd likely take off the field every 3rd or 4th snap. Unless we are confident we have a 4 down starter at DE the Giants, IMO, should pass.

Guard I just don't see us taking unless both WR's and our top rated DE's are gone. So its possible, but unlikely.

DT I can see, probably more so than Guard, but even then the bust potential here outweighs all other positions we'd be in the mix for.

In comment 12202237 nicky43 said:

Quote:

In comment 12202190 JonC said: Quote: If a WR carries a 90 grade and your top OL carries an 85, who are you picking at #9? My last post answers this but I would pick the OL guy THIS YEAR because our need at that position is too critical now. Sometimes you just can't afford to go BPA.

You advocate OL no matter what over a blue chip WR. Ok, it doesn't much more short-sighted than that.

In comment 12202092 JonC said:

Quote:

and understanding how to utilize premium draft picks wisely is getting really annoying around here.

Don't let them break you! haha.

I'm sorry. But you just don't get it.

who pull the "I would trade down" bullshit.

In comment 12202240 drkenneth said:

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paired with the "I'd trade down." That's the howl of the BBI mouth breather in the wild.

Let me clarify. I don't believe in trading down if the need is that great. I say take him at 9 if you can get him when you need him that bad. The comment was "then trade down if you have to" which was intended only to satisfy the most stubborn GMs that are locked into a strategy that they think they have to pick the best value.

There isn't a "trade down button" in the war room.

For you to trade down, there has to be a player worth trading up for. If this team has so many holes (as some on BBI think), then why would you trade down, leaving the better player to someone else at #9?

Get it?

In comment 12202265 drkenneth said:

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I'm sorry. But you just don't get it.

Why should you be sorry about an opinion you have? I'm not sorry that you think Beatty is a consistent starting caliber player or that you probably think our o-line is in fine shape. I'm also not sorry that you don't see things the way I do.

The board would be pretty boring if we all saw everything the same way.

In comment 12202275 nicky43 said:

Quote:

In comment 12202240 drkenneth said: Quote: Let me clarify. I don't believe in trading down if the need is that great. I say take him at 9 if you can get him when you need him that bad. The comment was "then trade down if you have to" which was intended only to satisfy the most stubborn GMs that are locked into a strategy that they think they have to pick the best value.

Well that really clarified "I'd trade down."

if you read my posts on this for me it's about value and the team as a whole not just a position. If the best player is a WR take him. Not all prospects are created equal. Personally I expect Cooper to be long gone. Beasley is probably gone.

I have White/Scherff in the same tier with very similar grades. I would take Scherff as imo he has greater impact on our overall team performance. My reasoning is balance. He helps the defense by improving the running game. He helps Eli twofold. Establishing a running game and improving interior pocket stability. I'm not drafting a lesser talent just taking a different approach.

I also wouldn't 'ignore' the WR position. The depth there in this draft is part of an overall draft strategy to upgrade as many critical positions as possible. You can't immediately upgrade the OL or DE after pick #40 this year imo. This isn't true of WR. Tyler Lockett/Phillip Dorsett/Rashad Green/Justin Hardy all have starting potential and imo one will be there in Round 3.

IMO having a flexible draft strategy based on improving your 'team' rather than just your roster is a smart approach.

In comment 12202282 nicky43 said:

Quote:

In comment 12202265 drkenneth said: Quote: I'm not sorry that you think Beatty is a consistent starting caliber player or that you probably think our o-line is in fine shape. I'm also not sorry that you don't see things the way I do. The board would be pretty boring if we all saw everything the same way.

Didn't PFF have Beatty one of the best LTs last year? Beatty is not the problem - guard is a problem

Makes sense to me. I'd love to see Scherff at LG or RT.

I'm just not sure Reese values him as the #9 pick. I'm all for an OL at #9. I just wouldn't reach, nor do I think we have to take an OL at #9.

In comment 12202260 JonC said:

Quote:

In comment 12202237 nicky43 said: Quote: In comment 12202190 JonC said: Quote: If a WR carries a 90 grade and your top OL carries an 85, who are you picking at #9? My last post answers this but I would pick the OL guy THIS YEAR because our need at that position is too critical now. Sometimes you just can't afford to go BPA. You advocate OL no matter what over a blue chip WR. Ok, it doesn't much more short-sighted than that.

No. That wasn't what I said. You gave me a choice between a WR or an OL guy. I took the OL guy. Now if the choice was between a WR or a DE I might have taken the DE. What I'm advocating for is filling critical needs!

As I said, sometimes BPA is not the best strategy and you can just put me in the camp that is a strong believer that there are times when BPA isn't always the best move. THAT is what I'm saying.

2015 or bust, fill perceived critical needs and don't worry about getting the best players. Got it.

In comment 12202294 section125 said:

Quote:

In comment 12202282 nicky43 said: Quote: In comment 12202265 drkenneth said: Quote: I'm not sorry that you think Beatty is a consistent starting caliber player or that you probably think our o-line is in fine shape. I'm also not sorry that you don't see things the way I do. The board would be pretty boring if we all saw everything the same way. Didn't PFF have Beatty one of the best LTs last year? Beatty is not the problem - guard is a problem

That may be so and I also admitted that Beatty ended up being one of our strongest o-line guys last year. Strong link in a very weak chain. And I also agree that LG is a stronger need than replacing Beatty. But I'm also saying that Beatty is inconsistent and that scares me and I'd love to see a better LT on the team. But I recognize our needs at Guard are too strong and that we will have no choice but to start Beatty this year. I get that. I just don't like it.

And there aren't a lot of Ogden's out there?

It's one thing to not be crazy about Beatty. It's another to think he's easily replaceable.

He's not.

the bigger the BPA factor becomes.

JonC said it best. The overriding factor for NYG is not position, it's maximizing value from a premium pick.

Getting a shot at a true blue chip player (especially a cost-controlled one!) is so rare in the NFL (especially one like NYG), you just can't pass on the opportunity.

Trading down is an option of course if:
a) the pick doesn't justify anyone left on your board,
b) there's a willing trade partner, and
c) you receive adequate compensation.

c) can offset a) but you have to make sure it does and you still need b) to begin with.

Boom goes the dynamite.

In comment 12202320 nicky43 said:

Quote:

In comment 12202294 section125 said: Quote: In comment 12202282 nicky43 said: Quote: In comment 12202265 drkenneth said: Quote: I'm not sorry that you think Beatty is a consistent starting caliber player or that you probably think our o-line is in fine shape. I'm also not sorry that you don't see things the way I do. The board would be pretty boring if we all saw everything the same way. Didn't PFF have Beatty one of the best LTs last year? Beatty is not the problem - guard is a problem That may be so and I also admitted that Beatty ended up being one of our strongest o-line guys last year. Strong link in a very weak chain. And I also agree that LG is a stronger need than replacing Beatty. But I'm also saying that Beatty is inconsistent and that scares me and I'd love to see a better LT on the team. But I recognize our needs at Guard are too strong and that we will have no choice but to start Beatty this year. I get that. I just don't like it.

Actually the better LT is already on the team in Justin Pugh, but Beatty doesn't seem to fit RT for a switch. But no team has great players at all 5 OL positions. He's not inconsistent. He had a terrible 2013, but so did the entire line. Beatty's price was not even that high for a LT. An adequate LG will be a huge upgrade for the entire line. For an O-line the sum of its parts is greater than the individual players themselves.

Cost control is something else BBI doesn't seem to grasp.

The "playmakers" Reese speaks about (WR/DE/LT/CB/QB)...Are very expensive to get in free agency. If you can get one of these guys (which you can in the top 10), you do it.

If we spent big $$$ in FA on one of these positions, BBI would bitch and moan about the cost.

Well done.

In comment 12202331 drkenneth said:

Quote:

And there aren't a lot of Ogden's out there? It's one thing to not be crazy about Beatty. It's another to think he's easily replaceable. He's not.

I agree and never said he would be easy to replace. So, lets say we get a good guard in the draft. What then becomes the weakest link in the line to you?

For me, it's a toss up between Schwartz or Beatty, both of which seem to have both health and consistency problems. And that's assuming Richbugh turns out to be a good Center and that Pugh's play last year was only due to injury. There is no starting caliber guys behind these players.

We have a lot of unknowns on our o-line right now. It's critical and it's been that way for three years.

Thanks. I appreciate the comment.
Cost control is key in a capped league and this is something that Reese appears to get, which I appreciate as a fan.
Here's one way to look at it: Take the OBJ/Martin debate from last year. Both great players, both were difference-makers for their respective teams. If both of them hit the open market today, who would cost more?
I think we'd all agree that given WR and G contracts in recent years, OBJ would probably be considerably more expensive.
What about another hypothetical WR and G pair, where the WR is 80% as good as OBJ and the G is 80% as good as Martin? The WR still costs much more.
The 80% example, while theoretical, is still a useful construct because those kinds of players are available in far greater numbers in the FA market.
This is replacement cost - the cost of purchasing production (all or part) that you passed on in the draft. In a capped league, this is a crucial consideration.

I'm not sure what the point of discussing the weakest link of the OL. Believe it or not, some of it is luck. Guys get hurt, that's just the way it works.

Reese will add a starter at OL in the draft. He can't control how they play, and whether or not the stay healthy. As noted OL play is more about playing as a unit.

The OL depth argument is silly as well. "We have no starters behind the starters"....That's why backups are backups. Depth in today's NFL isn't a real thing. Guys get hurt...That's not on Reese. Injuries forced guys like John Jerry to start and Richburg to G.

Shit happens. You can't have 10 Pro Bowl OL.

People talk about it like it's equivalent to getting robbed on a city street,but if you get the right player no one will care.People will look back at the draft on Wikipedia or Pro Football Reference and have no issues.It's only during April and May do we have to take hear about maximum value and "Not at 9".

What offensive lineman is ever going to be rated as highly as the top wide receivers in the draft.If you can't bend a little bit you're always gonna be taking the WR.Your talking about some of the better athletes in the game vs an offensive lineman...

Will we be better off with
a) Cooper/WhiteParker in round 1 and the best safety or offensive guard in round 2 or will be better off with
b)Collins/Sherff/Dupree/Beasley/etc in round 1 and Agholor/Smith in round 2 or
c) should we take an ol/edge rusher in round 1, the other in round 2 and a wideout like Hardy or Lockett in round 3?

I'd go with (b) or (c).

This just in , Giants trade Beckham for Martin ....stating the team has holes in thier line that need to be filled, they made a mistake last year and should have addressed the oline ...You happy ?




The comparison is there , only major difference , there is not a single o lineman that compares to Martin in this years class . You take cooper if he's there , Period .

In comment 12202331 drkenneth said:

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And there aren't a lot of Ogden's out there? It's one thing to not be crazy about Beatty. It's another to think he's easily replaceable. He's not.

This above.

In comment 12202943 TheCatch said:

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This just in , Giants trade Beckham for Martin ....stating the team has holes in thier line that need to be filled, they made a mistake last year and should have addressed the oline ...You happy ? The comparison is there , only major difference , there is not a single o lineman that compares to Martin in this years class . You take cooper if he's there , Period .

As if you really know that, LOL! There's plenty of talk that Scherff is better than What Martin was consideted to be 1 year ago. And no one knew Beckham was gonna be a generational WR talent, either...

WR is a need as well as position that impacts to a greater extent than a LG. They're going to be double teaming Beckham and he needs someone to take the pressure off him.If Cruz isn't ready WR is a necessity and if Parker is as good as everyone says, go WR.We can Get a O line guy in two who can start.

It's crazy how most Giants fans know so little about there team,the game of football,and how it's played.
First of all,saying you can't afford to take the BPA available is just retarded. They should (ALWAYS)take the BPA in the 1st round. This year it will most likely be one of the 3 top receivers,Probably Devante Parker.
All of you mouth breathers clamoring for OL in round 1 fail to take into account the Teams problem as a whole over the past 2 seasons. In 2013 as mara stated,the offense was broken,wich subsequently led to Gilbrides forced retirement. The OL was blocking for Andre Brown,Peyton Hillis and Brandon Jacobs. 2 hasbeens and a never was.
Last year Jennings was pretty good behind that OL for the first month of the season. I believe he was 2nd in the league in rushing after the Texans game,wich he ran for a carrer best 176 yards. After he was injured Andre Williams struggled adjusting to the NFL. He showed good improvement throughout the season though. See the Tennessee and St. Louis games.
Do I think upgrading the G position is a priority? Yes,but there's no need to be desperate and reach for a guy like scherff or Collins at 9. neither belong in the top 15 let alone at 9. While scherff has some versatility his best position will be G in the NFL. He'd make an (average) T at best. Scherff has the better 3's of the 2 but Collins has the most upside in my opinion. I think he could be a good RT but his best chance to start and succeed in year one should be at G as well.
The running game is an attitude and a mentatlity,wich comes from playing togeather and developing consistency. Ofcourse there has to be talent there. The Giants do have some talent there already,now if they can all stay healthy and develop some continuity there should be vast improvement.
they could use an upgrade over Jerry for sure. That doesn't have to come at the expense of spending a top 10 pick on a G. If the Giants choose to go in that direction, then one should be there at 40 who. An upgrade at G could probably be had at 74 as well if they did go after another position. What I'm trying to say is that it's a talent rich draft at several positions and there's many directions the Giants could go with there picks and not be wrong.
Hopefully they come away with some competition and depth for the OL,as competition breeds success.

...again.

Like I said,IGNORANT!!! Ignorance is bliss as they say. right!?! Haha...

seek help or maybe a job. Both are therapeutic.

Obviously you have no useful information to add,So why are you even here!? Just to lurk around and breathe heavy from your mouth.
Spending time and taking care of my special needs daughter who has cystic fibrosis is therapeutic as well. Fuckin retard. What a waste of space!! :)
Here's another one who has no clue about a team he supposively roots for.

At the beginning of the season we started with Det and AZ, and our running game sucked. Then we hit a string of lousy defenses and we could run. So yes, at the break after playing Was, Phi, Dallas, Atl, and Houston, we had decent stats. However once we started playing good teams again it all stopped. To win, and be competitive in the playoffs, we need to be able to function against even good defenses. If not we are destined for 8-8 or 7-9 (again).

Let's say Doug Free is the best offensive lineman available at 9 and Dez Bryant is there as well.

You're telling me you take Doug Free every time because we need an OL? That seems like a horrible way to draft and destines your team for mediocrity.

You need superstars to win the Superbowl. Top 10 picks are a great way to get them and you better not waste it to fill a short term need.

Which is funny by the way because you are always being so moody so chillin in your name doesn't really fit.

Here is the deal. Just because you think Scherff or Collins is a reach at 9 doesn't mean you are right. Since that is the case it basically makes your whole rant about not taking the BPA at pick 9 null and void. I have Collins and Scherff both rated above White. That is what you call an opinion. That is my opinion while yours is Collins and Scherff are at least the 10th or lower rated players in this draft. That fact that I think you are stupid for thinking that doesn't mean I should be like you stupid mouth breather you are IGNORANT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ummm !!!! there that should be enough. It means we disagree on ranking of players. What and who we rank though doesn't matter. It is how Jerry Reese has them ranked.

So to sum it up.... You don't have some power of future knowledge to know who the better player will be in the future. You don't have any knowledge of the Giants draft board. You are stating an opinion on an opinion fan site. That doesn't make what you say fact... And that is a fact or wait... FACT!!!!!!!!!!!!

right you're stating your opinion and I'm stating mine. It still doesn't change the (FACT) that most of the Giants fans on here don't take into consideration the big picture as to why the OL has struggled so much over the past couple seasons. (See my post above). And that's the biggest reason for all the panic on here about drafting OL first. It has been more than just one player,more than just the OL. That's a fact!!! Most people on here can't see that and fail to look at the problem as a whole so aren't able to see the big picture. I'm not moody either just passionate about my team,and when I have a conviction about something I stick with it.
So if you were actually paying attention to anything I've said,it's not how you have scherff rated,it's about sound reasoning and well thought out explinations from most of the posters on here. It's my opinion and if I want to challenge what someone else says because my reasoning is more sound,then that's my prerogative!! :)
By the way,just because someone makes a comment on here,it may not be aimed directly at you. Unless they're actually calling you out.

In comment 12204561 chillinman1183 said:

Quote:

right you're stating your opinion and I'm stating mine. It still doesn't change the (FACT) that most of the Giants fans on here don't take into consideration the big picture as to why the OL has struggled so much over the past couple seasons. (See my post above). And that's the biggest reason for all the panic on here about drafting OL first. It has been more than just one player,more than just the OL. That's a fact!!! Most people on here can't see that and fail to look at the problem as a whole so aren't able to see the big picture. I'm not moody either just passionate about my team,and when I have a conviction about something I stick with it. So if you were actually paying attention to anything I've said,it's not how you have scherff rated,it's about sound reasoning and well thought out explinations from most of the posters on here. It's my opinion and if I want to challenge what someone else says because my reasoning is more sound,then that's my prerogative!! :) By the way,just because someone makes a comment on here,it may not be aimed directly at you. Unless they're actually calling you out.

First of all thank you for the lesson on how to use this forum. Yes I didn't think it was directed at me. Mine was directed at you for over reacted and freaking out. No this is not a fact "It still doesn't change the (FACT) that most of the Giants fans on here don't take into consideration the big picture as to why the OL has struggled so much over the past couple seasons" I don't know if you know what the word fact means. What you said hasn't been proven and best would be speculation.

What you fail to release in your explanation addressed to me is this... It isn't what the issue is with the 5 starting OL. It isn't what has happened or injuries or such. What matters is the 11 players on the field for that given play. Right now you have OBJ, Rueben, Cruz, Jennings, Eli, Donnell, Beatty, Richburg, Schwartz, Pugh, and who? You see we are missing a starting OG or a starting OT. If you went into the season without another player then we would have a big weakness in the offense because 4 ok OL aren't going to make up for the one bad one. We need a top player at OG or OT. Really an OT is preferred IMO. See what I did there. I wasn't so arrogant to stay and state what I feel as an opinion as a fact. Facts are absolutes. Everything you spout is an opinion not facts. If you have Scherff or Collins rated just as high as White then all things being equal you take the missing piece to our starting 11. Now if Cooper is there and he is rated much higher than the other too then of course you take Cooper, but what you fail to realize in all your rants is this....

With all things being equal I want the higher rated OL over the same rated WR. That doesn't mean anything other than if Collins who I have rated as the best OL is on the board and Leonard Williams, Dante Fowler, and Cooper are all gone then I draft Collins. That is my opinion on the Giants board. You don't always draft BPA because if Winston falls to us then we don't draft him. Before you say oh then we trade down like a parrot... You still don't take him unless he is SOOOO much rated higher than the next guy.

All I'll say is this because I really am done with this discussion. I said my piece. I wouldn't trade down If Winston was there at 9. So Parrot something else you probably read somewhere.
As far as facts go,it's a fact that a lot of fans on here are just what I said they are,mouthbreathers that don't have an intelligent thought in there collective heads. I said a lot,not all. I've read some very informative and thoughtful posts on here,they're just few and far between!!

In comment 12204907 chillinman1183 said:

Quote:

All I'll say is this because I really am done with this discussion. I said my piece. I wouldn't trade down If Winston was there at 9. So Parrot something else you probably read somewhere. As far as facts go,it's a fact that a lot of fans on here are just what I said they are,mouthbreathers that don't have an intelligent thought in there collective heads. I said a lot,not all. I've read some very informative and thoughtful posts on here,they're just few and far between!!

I think you are bringing up the percentage of mouth breathers is all I am saying. Since you don't know the statistics of how many posters know what they are talking about and how many don't then it isn't a fact. Again you are using your perception as a fact. A fact is a known thing. The fact you keep saying things like that makes me feel you are in the same category as the people you are talking about. Also Mr. "Chillin" if you feel that way why would you communicate on this site? I mean wouldn't that show lack of intelligence to continue to try and communicate with people you feel are so dumb?

Have a nice day!

As a group that is unreal.