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NFT: Have to make a decision about one of my dogs

MookGiants : 3/25/2015 12:25 pm
One of my two dogs is 14, he'll be 15 on July 2nd. I've had him since he was a puppy at about 10 weeks old. He's had heart issues for the past few years and has been on 3 different medicines every day to treat it. In the last 3 months it has gotten significantly worse, he coughs/chokes all night and a lot of the day. He still gets around and can walk, has trouble going up and down stairs but manages to do it still. It's so loud when he coughs/chokes that you could be in the basement and hear him upstairs. I feel terrible for him, but I also selfishly dont want to let him go. But this is no way for him to live, whenever he's laying down which is a lot of the day he just coughs and chokes a lot.

Last month I took him to the vet about it and they added another medicine, but it hasn't helped at all. The medicine is expensive but I don't care about that, I'll pay whatever i have to if it actually helps him. This doesn't seem to be helping him at all.

My vet says there's nothing else he can do. No more medicine to try for it.

I'm debating taking him to another vet to see what they say.

He still has his energetic moments, loves to go for his walks, but I can definitely see he's having a hard time.

It's killing me. I don't know what to do. I really dont want him to suffer and it seems like he is starting to now and i'm helpless at this point unless another vet finds a solution.

What would you guys do?
So sorry Mook  
Danny Kanell : 3/25/2015 12:30 pm : link
I went through it. You'll know, that's really all I can say. No one knows your dog better than you. Go with your gut. If you're really torn, it's probably worth getting another vet look, if nothing more than for your own peace of mind that you're making the right decision.

Again, sorry.
Only you can answer that.  
robbieballs2003 : 3/25/2015 12:30 pm : link
There is no right answer. Putting a dog down is one of the most heartbreaking things a person can do. At least that is my opinion. Keeping a dog alive can be just as bad too. Good luck.

A few years ago we had to put our dog down. He had bladder cancer and we were treating it. It got really bad but we could have performed surgery. However, when the vet took an x-ray of his chest we saw his heart was so enlarged that he most likely wouldn't have made it through the surgery. The vet's opinion was to not even put him through it. He was having trouble breathing and gaging too. We put him down. What a tough day (week, year, etc.) that was.
Lost my boxer at 9 this July......  
yupbjac27 : 3/25/2015 12:33 pm : link
such a tough thing to see your dog get old. I think that dogs trust you and know that you are doing whats best for them so that takes some of the pain out of it. For us, Cali died unexpectedly and without us around but did so in my parents pool yard where she loved running around. For a month or so I got really mad we weren't their for her to say goodbye but she knows we loved her and she went out in a really cool way (laying on the grass, in the sun, in her favorite place to be).

I guess my advice is dogs know you love them and they trust you to do whats in their best interest. So dont have any fear around doing the wrong thing or hurting your dogs feelings, unwavering love and trust for you is how they start and how they end. Sorry for you having to go through this.
Oh man Mook  
BigBlueShock : 3/25/2015 12:34 pm : link
I'm sorry my friend. Just so happens I am going through the exact same thing. My almost 8 year old Rottie is my best friend. Best dog I've ever had. He recently started losing weight and now he won't eat. We went on vacation last week and left him with the sitter. She mentioned that he wasn't eating much when we spoke to her but when we got home, he was skin and bones. A normally fun and energetic dog now just lays around and looks so sad. We've done every test in the world and he's had several overnight stays at the vet. They can't figure out what's wrong. Have him on a very expensive diet now, which worked for awhile, but now he's gone down hill again. My wife and I have no human children, so he is our boy. We are tore up over this. We may have to make the decision by the end of the week.

I hope everything works out for you Mook. I certainly feel your pain.
I'm sorry to hear about your dog, Mook...  
RC02XX : 3/25/2015 12:35 pm : link
it's heartbreaking when a family member (and these are definitely family members) suffers like how you describe. Sometimes it's the most courageous thing to let him go to end the suffering. And while you say that your dog has his energetic moments, the times of suffering seem to be more frequent. As his owner/friend/companion, you ultimately have to make the difficult decision, but know that no matter what decision you make, your dog had a great life with a loving owner.

My wife in the past year had to put both of her cats down that she's had for more than 10 years. It was devastating for her and for my daughter. But in the end, she knew she made the most loving and humane decisions for our cats.

Stay strong, buddy.
So sorry Mook...  
aimrocky : 3/25/2015 12:35 pm : link
I can't offer any real advice, because this is such a personal decision. Whatever you decide on, don't second guess it.

Putting down my 5 year old American Bulldog was one of the hardest decision I've had to make, and immediately second guessed myself because the doctors could never find hard evidence why he wasn't eating anymore and could only speculate he had cancer. I had to tell myself that whatever he had likely couldn't be cured and this was the best decision for him.
Very  
AcidTest : 3/25/2015 12:36 pm : link
sorry. I've gone through that with two pets, a dog and a cat. At some point you're going to have to decide whether his remaining quality of life outweighs his pain. It sounds like you may have already made that decision, but want to wait a little longer just to be sure. It's an agonizing decision to have to make, especially since you've had your dog for so long. Pets are family members. Good luck. Prayers to your dog. Woof. Woof.
Had the same decision 30 years  
section125 : 3/25/2015 12:36 pm : link
ago and put my dog down as it was time. It is the reason I never got another dog despite the pleas from the kids. Just could not handle having to go through that again.

Good luck. It sounds like you know what needs to be done, but just can't.
I know this sounds so cliche but  
Peter in Atl : 3/25/2015 12:38 pm : link
You'll know when it is time.
Mook  
DanMetroMan : 3/25/2015 12:41 pm : link
I'm really sorry to hear this. This past weekend I went through something similar with my 15 year old cat. He's aging, has a thyroid problem etc and stopped eating this weekend. The vet believes it's simply an infection and that he will get better but bringing him there you assume the worst (last 2 cats we had that got sick ended up having to be put to sleep so...). My only advice would be yeah, take him/her to another vet. What is the downside? At least you will get some piece of mind. Hope your doggy improves.
I think  
MookGiants : 3/25/2015 12:45 pm : link
I'm going to take him to another vet but need to prepare myself if I dont get good answers there to let him go. I have another 7 year old dog that will miss him like crazy too but I can't just let him go like this. He hasn't had any problems eating yet at least but his heart and kidneys are definitely in rough shape.

Going to get another vet to see him hopefully by end of week and then ill know what my decision needs to be.
...  
Route 9 in LEH : 3/25/2015 12:48 pm : link
Sorry to hear about this but do what you feel is right. My aunt had found a shih Tzu around 20 years ago and she loved it. The dog got sick in late November of 01 and my aunt spent money to keep the dog going but she died anyway. I don't know the amount, but it was a lot when the bills piled up. Again, sorry to hear about this and hope for the best for you.
hate to say it  
djm : 3/25/2015 12:50 pm : link
but there is no decision. I've been there more than once and it's never easy but you have to do what's right.
I hate shit like this.  
GiantFilthy : 3/25/2015 12:51 pm : link
Dogs are so much better than people. As a last resort I would go for a second opinion at another vet. Chances are they will just confirm what the first said, but there is always the hope that they will have any idea or med recommendation that the first vet didn't.

Sorry, dude.
ask yourself this question  
bc4life : 3/25/2015 12:57 pm : link
Are you keeping the dog alive more for him or you? And, part of the answer is asking - how enjoyable is the dog's life?

.  
arcarsenal : 3/25/2015 12:58 pm : link
Really sorry, man. I got my Golden just about 10 years ago to the exact day and he was just a few weeks old when we got him. I love that dog more than anything and my biggest fear is knowing that he's getting older and that I don't have forever with him. I'm just thankful for every healthy day he has.

If it were me, I would just do my best to determine if the good outweighed the bad. If he's spending most of his days coughing and choking it's got to be a tough way to live. And I know those good moments he has are what make you so hesitant.. how could they not?

I think you'll know what's best for him. You've cared for him his whole life and no one knows him better than you do. My heart goes out to you.. I can't even imagine how difficult it has to be.
my sympathies, Mook  
Greg from LI : 3/25/2015 1:03 pm : link
I'm starting to dread that moment even though it's probably a ways off yet. Our older dog is coming up on 11, and while she's in good health overall she has started to show signs of joint pain. When she has to use stairs, she does so very slowly and gingerly. She's also not eating all that much anymore, and has lost some weight. The vet said it's nothing really wrong, just part of her aging. I fervently wish that, when her time comes, she just slips away in her sleep so we don't have to make that decision.
yeah it sucks  
djm : 3/25/2015 1:16 pm : link
I look forward to when I can get another dog but at the same time I don't miss the short life spans.

Most vets won't blow smoke up your ass about your pet. It won't hurt to get a second opinion but prepare for the worst. Sounds like you already have.

I was a train wreck when I had to put down my Rotty about 7 years ago. I dreaded the day for a year.....and probably waited too long. It's not easy.
Try another vet for a second opinion  
Torrag : 3/25/2015 1:17 pm : link
They may have some ideas. The re-assess.
my dog  
djm : 3/25/2015 1:19 pm : link
went blind and develop this huge tumor on her belly...and she already had bad knees and some arthritis...she loved people so much that she just trucked through the pain and suffering but she wasn't comfortable at all during that last year...plus she was nearly 100% blind.

I'll never forget the firs time I noticed her vision was going --I threw some article of food at her, and she would normally just snatch that shit right out of the air with lightning quick reflexes but this day she didn't. The food sailed over her head....I was like WTF...it was seemingly all down hill from there. Still miss her.
The dog I had prior to our current one had the same (heart) problems  
steve in ky : 3/25/2015 1:28 pm : link
As hard as it was I couldn't bear to watch him suffer once to the point similar to what you are describing. IMHO it is just no way for a dog to live and chose to have him put to sleep rather than him having to endure it any longer. It was really hard to do because I chose to stay with him and comfort him while he was injected and drifted off. Not sure I would recommend everyone do that part, it was rough.

Sorry you are going though this. Dogs are great, I only wished they lived longer lives.
yeah  
djm : 3/25/2015 1:31 pm : link
they asked me if I wanted to stay with the dog as it drifted off and I said no. Glad I did.

I stayed with her for a few minutes in an empty room before they took her away...then I literally ran out of the vet's office.
Sorry to hear Mook  
pjcas18 : 3/25/2015 1:32 pm : link
no advice other than don't beat yourself up about deciding that it's time to let the dog go (if it is).

I can't imagine making the call, but I know if my dog is in pain and unlikely to improve I hope I have the strength to make that call.
I just put down my dog a month ago.  
BeerFridge : 3/25/2015 1:33 pm : link
We waffled like this in the months prior and then it became clear it was time. Sad to say, but you'll know when that time comes.
I know it's time now  
MookGiants : 3/25/2015 1:37 pm : link
I'm just hoping like hell the 2nd vet can give me some hope but I doubt that will come, but I need to do it for peace of mind.

This really sucks.
I understand Mook  
oke49 : 3/25/2015 1:38 pm : link
we just had to put down our two kitties, ages 19 and 17. My wife was the realistic one. The older one had end-stage diabetes and could barely move but I did not want to let go. A wonderful companion, a member of the family, my wife finally took him to the vet about 6 months later than it should've been done and put him out of his misery.

The younger one, also a little lover boy all of his life, was mostly himself until the end. Developed cancer behind his eye and you could see he was in pain. I took him to the vet and held him while he died.

So funny, I see these things daily in my practice and I handle them with concerned intelligence and dispatch but I fell apart when it came to our two cats.

We buried their ashes in our backyard. They may be the only two cats in history to have Kaddish said over them.
I drove up from NYC - spent like 600 bucks on a rental car  
yupbjac27 : 3/25/2015 2:18 pm : link
as it was a Friday. The vet stayed late in the office so I could say goodbye. It was the best and the worst thing I've ever done in my life. Allowed me to say goodbye but def not something I've been able to get out of my head.

If you feel like a 2nd opinion is the way to go, go for it
Sorry to hear Mook.  
ctc in ftmyers : 3/25/2015 2:31 pm : link
It's never easy. I have put a lot of pets down in my life. You'll know when it's time.
.  
Danny Kanell : 3/25/2015 2:31 pm : link
Quote:
It was really hard to do because I chose to stay with him and comfort him while he was injected and drifted off. Not sure I would recommend everyone do that part, it was rough.


It was one of the hardest things i've ever had to witness but I do recommend it. I wanted my Molly to only look at me while it was happening in case she was scared (She was always scared at the vet). I definitely recommend to anyone going through it for the first time to be in the room.
I will  
MookGiants : 3/25/2015 2:32 pm : link
100% be in the room when his time comes. He has always been scared going to the vet and while he's a decent sized dog he bsically bear hugs me whenever we go when we're waiting for the vet to come into the room. In his last moments im not leaving him by himself. No how no way
I agree - when that time comes I'll definitely be there  
Greg from LI : 3/25/2015 2:35 pm : link
My dog too has always been freaked out by the vet. There's no way I'd let her pass away alone and afraid.
BigBlueShock  
oghwga : 3/25/2015 2:38 pm : link
Not sure if your vet already did this but our dog stopped eating a few months back and was just miserable. vet said to try and give him hamburger, treats, all sorts of BS. Finally after I harangued him they gave him an anti-nausea chemotherapy pill (it was tiny, I put it in some peanut butter and rubbed it on his teeth so he had to swallow it)

and he had his appetite back within hours, and once he was able to eat, he bounced back in a day or two and we stopped giving him the pills because he was humping everything in sight. I don't know why the vet didn't offer this $20 fix on the first visit. maybe your vet is as bad as mine.

Sorry to miller, and mook, sorry about your dog.
RE: .  
steve in ky : 3/25/2015 2:39 pm : link
In comment 12203031 Danny Kanell said:
Quote:


Quote:


It was really hard to do because I chose to stay with him and comfort him while he was injected and drifted off. Not sure I would recommend everyone do that part, it was rough.



It was one of the hardest things i've ever had to witness but I do recommend it. I wanted my Molly to only look at me while it was happening in case she was scared (She was always scared at the vet). I definitely recommend to anyone going through it for the first time to be in the room.


Exactly why I chose to be there with him so I could comfort him right to the end. I didn't want him to have extra anxiety in his last moments.

My only point is it likely isn't for everyone because it was very hard emotionally and not everyone may not wish to go through that and have that be their last memory.

I don't think there is a right or wrong way for what to do and each person should choose what is best for themselves and their pet.
RE: RE: .  
Danny Kanell : 3/25/2015 2:44 pm : link
In comment 12203046 steve in ky said:
Quote:
In comment 12203031 Danny Kanell said:


Quote:




Quote:


It was really hard to do because I chose to stay with him and comfort him while he was injected and drifted off. Not sure I would recommend everyone do that part, it was rough.



It was one of the hardest things i've ever had to witness but I do recommend it. I wanted my Molly to only look at me while it was happening in case she was scared (She was always scared at the vet). I definitely recommend to anyone going through it for the first time to be in the room.



Exactly why I chose to be there with him so I could comfort him right to the end. I didn't want him to have extra anxiety in his last moments.

My only point is it likely isn't for everyone because it was very hard emotionally and not everyone may not wish to go through that and have that be their last memory.

I don't think there is a right or wrong way for what to do and each person should choose what is best for themselves and their pet.


Steve, absolutely. There's definitely no right or wrong answer. Sorry if it came across as argumentative. Definitely not the intent. Just wanted to give my thoughts.
No you were fine and I didn't take it that way  
steve in ky : 3/25/2015 2:50 pm : link
I just wanted to warn those what to expect but wasn't trying to discourage anyone from being there at the last moments. I'll do it again when faced with the same choice, but it was very hard, more so than I even expected it to be. I remember my dad telling me how hard it was when he took our family dog years ago. I never truly appreciated how much so until I did it myself.
RE: my sympathies, Mook  
figgy2989 : 3/25/2015 3:11 pm : link
In comment 12202713 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
I'm starting to dread that moment even though it's probably a ways off yet. Our older dog is coming up on 11, and while she's in good health overall she has started to show signs of joint pain. When she has to use stairs, she does so very slowly and gingerly. She's also not eating all that much anymore, and has lost some weight. The vet said it's nothing really wrong, just part of her aging. I fervently wish that, when her time comes, she just slips away in her sleep so we don't have to make that decision.


Greg...this is what my hope is as well. My golden is my best friend. She has been there with me through the good times and bad. I really do dread the day that is eventually going to come.

Sorry to hear about this Mook...hopefully you go to the other vet and they offer some sort of alternative.
Sorry to hear it, Mook  
JonC : 3/25/2015 3:12 pm : link
For me, I wouldn't be able to watch him suffer. You'll know what to do.
Sorry Mook. It's a tough situation. My two cents:  
Marty in Albany : 3/25/2015 4:50 pm : link
I think the deciding factors might be whether your dog suffering and/or in pain.
Mook  
dep026 : 3/25/2015 4:57 pm : link
I put one of my dogs down just 2 weeks ago. She lost all movement in her legs and couldnt walk. Which affected her peeing and bowel movements. she ate, she slept, and looked pain free other than the bathroom problems and moving part.

However, we decided that it was just time because it seemed like she wasnt herself and enjoying it. It was so tough. WHen I took her to the vet, she even mentioned it was time.

Like everyone else has said, you will know when its time. But my advice is that if you do go through and put your dog down, it is not the wrong decision even if it seems to be. I am sorry you have to go through this and wish you the best man.
Mook  
Percy : 3/25/2015 5:21 pm : link
Awful situation. Had to put two down, one lots of years and the other fewer years ago. It is not fair to let the dog suffer when there's no shot at getting better. Have to do what's best for the dog and be there for it. You'll know when that is. Very sorry for you.
Has anyone  
MookGiants : 3/25/2015 7:47 pm : link
ever tried petwellbeing.com? I just ordered something called Young at Heart for Dog heart disease. I generally don't believe in these all natural things but im desperate at this point to find something that helps him before I give up. I am not going to let him suffer but I want to exhaust every avenue possible before I let him go. It's some type of drop that I put over his food. The reviews on the site are good but they could be bullshit for all I know. I just have nothing to lose at this point The reviews say that they have helped other dogs with severe coughing/choking aspect. We'll see.
link - ( New Window )
dogs, like people, don't live forever  
RasputinPrime : 3/25/2015 8:01 pm : link
and the inevitable isn't something we embrace. Some people would rather squeeze every moment out of life before surrendering and I'd like to think that a well-loved dog might feel the same.

you already know what you want to do. Just don't talk yourself out of it.
This is just my view  
SomeFan : 3/25/2015 8:09 pm : link
We have a 14 year old dog too. Once the dog becomes lethargic and there is no other reasonable treatment, we plan to make the tough choice.
Tough one Mook  
gidiefor : Mod : 3/25/2015 8:21 pm : link
I just had to make this choice myself - with a 14 year old dog - same type of history.

I agree with Peter, you'll know in your heart when it's the right time. I do think it's unfair to the dog to let it suffer -- but if she's still enjoying life then the situation is tougher -- the moment you know that the dog's quality of life is going to cause her to suffer unnecessarily - and she really can;t understand what's going on - then that's the moment
he's coughing  
MookGiants : 3/25/2015 8:34 pm : link
a ton, which to me means he is suffering. But also when I get home he still goes crazy and barks up a storm in excitement to see me. He still eats fine. Always cleans his bowl out. He just doesn't have the constant energy like he used to and the coughing has gotten so bad it's so violent and just kills me to hear him like that.

Going to another vet for a 2nd opinion and going to try that all natural stuff for at least a week and then make a decision. My dad came over to see him tonight, my dad was the one who got him for me when I was in 6th grade.
It really comes down to trying to find a way to fight the coughing..  
arcarsenal : 3/25/2015 8:41 pm : link
If there's any possible way to calm it down a little bit or alleviate it, hopefully you can find it. If there's really just nothing you can do and you've explored every avenue, you've just got to trust your heart and decide whether it's outweighing the good or not. That's really what it comes down to.

Good luck, buddy.
How long can he walk?  
montanagiant : 3/26/2015 12:49 am : link
We had to put down our 13 year old dog due to a chest tumor that caused issues with her shoulder joint. The tumor had spread to both shoulders this last year and she had serious trouble getting up and down stairs. She had a good appetite still and played for short spurts but we were lucky if she could walk 2 blocks without being exhausted. We could tell she was not having a good quality of life and while i put it off for over a year telling myself that she was still doing well, ultimately i finally realize i was doing for myself, not her.

It is a very hard thing to do but it may be for the best for them, because they hang around for us, not themselves
sorry to see this Mook, that's just a brutal place to be  
WeatherMan : 3/26/2015 1:02 am : link
I've had to let two go, was in the room right there with both, it's heartbreaking but when time has come it's the right thing to do. All the best to you both man.
we went through the same thing  
timintey : 3/26/2015 6:44 am : link
With our golden last year, so I feel your pain. Like others said, I'd seek that second opinion and prepare for the same response. You then have to evaluate if he's suffering. One of the hardest decisions you'll make will be to let him go. Hang in there.
is one of his meds and ACE Inhibitor  
Berrylish : 3/26/2015 7:05 am : link
???
I don't much to offer you since I do not have a dog  
EricJ : 3/26/2015 7:16 am : link
I am sorry that you are faced with this decision. Maybe consider making that tough decision when one of these two occur....

1. He coughs non-stop without a break for a couple of days.
2. He stops eating.
The only part of dog ownership that REALLY sucks.  
Section331 : 3/26/2015 8:48 am : link
I had to put my greyhound down a few months back, and I still miss him every day. However, I think you answered your own question. If he is in distress, you really owe it to him to put him out of his suffering. It's not an easy decision to make, and it completely sucks to have to make it, but that is what we pet owners sign up for.
RE: is one of his meds and ACE Inhibitor  
MookGiants : 3/26/2015 11:32 am : link
In comment 12203851 Berrylish said:
Quote:
???


Yes, he's on enalapril
I am going through this now, but its liver failure/disease  
PatersonPlank : 3/26/2015 11:38 am : link
He is lethargic, losing weight, and is not eating or drinking much. I know he is not feeling that well, but he's not in pain, not vomiting or sick, and alert. He just lies around, goes outside to he bathroom a lot (because his liver isn't working). We are alss feeding him great food, such as mac/cheese, steak, etc. We had him on special food for other ailments but whats the point now. I have fallen on the side of if he is not in pain, and not really sickly (like vomiting) then I will leave him alone. He is like a frail old man on hospice. When he goes he goes. If he gets very sick or in pain then I will change my mind.
mook  
Berrylish : 3/26/2015 11:47 am : link
in humans the common side effect of an ACE inhibitor is a persistent non-productive cough. The patient usually gets switched to another class like an ARB.
ARBS:
candesartan (Atacand),
eprosartan (Teveten),
irbesartan (Avapro),
telmisartan (Micardis),
valsartan (Diovan),
losartan (Cozaar), and
olmesartan (Benicar).

The cough resolves in humans. I don't know how this applies across species. Just a thought. Other options would be calcium channel blockers or beta blockers. But again... i didn't study veterinary medicine.
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