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| A senior military official involved in the investigation described “very smooth, very cool” conversation between the pilots during the early part of the flight from Barcelona to Düsseldorf. Then the audio indicated that one of the pilots left the cockpit and could not re-enter. “The guy outside is knocking lightly on the door and there is no answer,” the investigator said. “And then he hits the door stronger and no answer. There is never an answer.” He said, “You can hear he is trying to smash the door down.” |
Don't the pilots carry a key to the door?
Do we have the names of the pilots yet? Time to investigate the pilots.
That's by design to prevent terrorists from breaking in,
On international carriers apparently that is not the mandated practice. That's fucking crazy.
This could have been completely avoided if in fact the pilot acted alone.
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has no provision for the pilot becoming incapacitated?
That's by design to prevent terrorists from breaking in,
which works perfectly unless one of the pilots is in fact a terrorist.
or has a heart attack.
I wonder if we'll ever find out what really happened.
I'm still a bit surprised there is no security measure in place to get back in the cockpit from the outside - especially since they don't replace the pilot with a FA.
I'm still a bit surprised there is no security measure in place to get back in the cockpit from the outside - especially since they don't replace the pilot with a FA.
If the co-pilot (or pilot) could get back in without the door being unlocked from the inside, then all terrorists would have to do is wait for one of them to come out to go to the bathroom to grab him and gain access to the cockpit
roughly 500 kts.
Then, it would finally make sense to call it the "cockpit".
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Also, I would have to imagine that the pilot in the lav would almost instantly recognized the plane on descent. Once the copilot turns the knob or pushes the side stick forward the pilot would recognize the descent.
I'm still a bit surprised there is no security measure in place to get back in the cockpit from the outside - especially since they don't replace the pilot with a FA.
If the co-pilot (or pilot) could get back in without the door being unlocked from the inside, then all terrorists would have to do is wait for one of them to come out to go to the bathroom to grab him and gain access to the cockpit
There are three settings in the cockpit to secure the door allowing the door to be completely accessible, accessible from the outside via code or completely inaccessible. I don't know what the SOP is in Europe but I believe it's supposed to be accessible from the outside in the US. Meaning that the pilot would need to intentionally set the door to closed.
In the US the pilot is replaced by the FA and I've seen them barricade the door with the cart and two more FAs until the pilot returns to the cockpit.
Umm, no, not if the pilot in the flight deck held a gun to or
otherwise took out the FA. The US FAA practice is somewhat
prophylactic, but hardly 100% secure.
Umm, no, not if the pilot in the flight deck held a gun to or
otherwise took out the FA. The US FAA practice is somewhat
prophylactic, but hardly 100% secure.
Come on. The sop is to set the door to accessible from the outside. So now we're worrying about pilots changing the door setting and pulling a gun on FA? Wow.
Oddly enough pilots go thru security too. Even though it irks me when they cut me off in line.
Unfortunately there is little security for either a medical catastrophe or suicidal madness.
Autopilot can, on many systems, be overridden with manual input.
If, for example, the pilot were slumped over with his weight leaning on the controls, it's possible that pressure overrode the autopilot and caused a gradual descent like what happened.
Not saying that's what happened, but it's plausible.
That sure as hell doesn't sound very convenient to me.
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to have a sudden heart attack, while the co pilot went to relieve himself or herself.
That sure as hell doesn't sound very convenient to me.
Thats what I meant
I think it points to a heart attack or something along those lines.
This sounds like more of a suicide.
I find it odd the names of the pilots have not been released?
anyone have them?
I find it odd the names of the pilots have not been released?
anyone have them?
Interesting football thread.
They said this on CNN last night
This was almost certainly intentional.
However, is it possible that under duress he would have mistakenly selected "locked" instead of "open" (in the hopes of getting help quicker)?
Again, not likely because the plane then entered into a controlled decsent that HAD to be activated by the copilot by turning the knob or pushing the side stick forward.
Overwhelming evidence - at this point - leads us to believe this was deliberate. Mass murder indeed.
'a rather quiet young man'....yikes - ( New Window )
The idea of videos in the cockpit has been floated for years, and frankly is a naive idea peddled by so-called experts. The vast majority of pilots are not in favor of this, as videos add little value, provide opportunities for misuse, and there is already massive amounts of data collected. US Aviation is very safe and very regulated already.
Everything we say and do at work is already recorded on the CVR. Everything we do in the airplane is recorded by the FDR. We're randomly tested for drugs and alcohol, often in front of passengers. We have to take our shoes off and get wanded at security. Every year and soon to be every 6 months we have to put our career on the line and go through an extensive medical check. Every year we put our job on the line with a proficiency check - written tests, orals, and a simulator checkride. We're randomly checked by company instructors and FAA inspectors in the jumpseat several times a year. If something even minor happens, our lives are on display for the public to see, and often smeared by the media. (Think MH370). If a company goes out of business, we start over again at another company. There's no credit for experience. It's all seniority.
There's a point where pilots will eventually say enough is enough and you'll see an even worse shortage of experienced aviators. That will force airlines to go into desperation mode and hire any warm bodies they can to fill flight decks. This is not good for safety.
I've also seen some flight crews "barricade" the cockpit door with the beverage/food cart when one of the pilots exits the cockpit. But I haven't seen that often.
What are the standard practices in those regards? And why don't international airlines follow what seem to be pretty basic deterrants? Tia.
In what Robin classified as a "voluntary" move, the 28-year-old German co-pilot then manually accelerated the descent, having pressed "the buttons of the flight monitoring system," per the BBC. The pilot's entreaties to be let in go unanswered, and the co-pilot's breathing can be heard; he doesn't utter a single word. Though the plane had a keypad that could be used to gain entry outside the cockpit door, the New York Times reports by way of an Airbus video that someone in the cockpit can move a "toggle to a position marked 'locked'"; doing so renders the keypad useless for five minutes.
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Wow. Yeah, you're totally right. Didn't really think about it that way. Makes total sense. Thanks DC.
According to the morning news this is SOP in the US but not Europe. Looks like it should be.
Technology and economics have long passed that by
If your pissed at the airline then sabotage them. But taking innocent lives to dramatize your exit is got to be the most chicken shit thing to do ever. I
Having to subdue a FA would take balls something this guy never had.
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The media can really out do themselves on their level of stupidity sometimes.
Yeah
Pilot interventions
(Smiles)
ABC News - ( New Window )
A total coward.
Flightradar24:
We have analysed the raw data from the transponder of #4U9525 and found some more dat
We have analysed the raw data from the transponder of #4U9525 and found some more data apart from the regular position/altitude data.
These are the decoded ModeS (Downlink Format 20) frames which contain replies to interrogating radar requests (Upling Format 20).
[...]
Between 09:30:52 and 09:30:55 we can see that the autopilot was manually changed from 38,000 feet to 100 feet and 9 seconds later the aircraft started to descend, probably with the "open descent" autopilot setting.
The reason why the selected altitude is 96ft is that least significant bit for altitude setting equals 16 ft, and we suspect that you can’t set autopilot to 0000 altitude, so the minimum would be 100ft down rounded to 96ft in binary representation in BDS40h register.
Any comments or thoughts about this?
Playback: http://www.flightradar24.com/data/fl...u9525/#5d42675
This data has also been handled over to BEA 2 days ago.
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He was a stewarder with lufthanza before he became co-pilot
He was a stewarder with lufthanza before he became co-pilot
Rich - Why are you asking us ? Did you see him at the secret meetings or not ?
He was a stewarder with lufthanza before he became co-pilot
Go the fuck away...
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He said you're gay - pay attention!
begs the questions:
depressive, bi-polar, personality disorder or what?
did he also have mania?
and what -medications- was he on, if any, that may have effected his judgement?, in addition,
was he diagnosed correctly, is the DMS in order for depression when there are other corresponding diagnoses?
are they putting the cart of depression before the horse of [other, more negative, disorders that sometimes overlap]?
however, it is often the case that depression can correspond with bi-polar and / or serious and scary personality disorders.
one might need a serious dose of anti-psychotic medication, and to be told that 'airline pilot is not a career choice.'
however, it is much 'nicer' to just say 'mood disorder' and give the one med and a pat on the back.
which it is.
However:
1. If the understanding (of the place that depression can have visa-vis more serious or dangerous mental illness) is incorrect, then even the patient is not getting the help he needs to become healthy.
2. there are also some public institutions that interface with mental health and it's understanding. These have responsibilities that go far beyond the private (patient/doctor) relationship:
Institutions such as Air Control in this case, courts of all types, law enforcement, and so forth.
If these institutions are being fed, (or simply by dint of culture, operating on) any false assumptions or backwards understandings, even in what seem like details, in the current DSM or simply in the culture of the mental health industry, then those institutions will be less able to do the job of protecting the people, as they in turn, will be blinded when taking decisions.
• 8:01 a.m.: The medical leave notes issued by a doctor for Lubitz included the day of the crash, the Dusseldorf public prosecutor's office said.
• 8:01 a.m.: The prosecutor's office did not say if the medical leave note related to a physical or a mental health issue but said Lubitz appeared to have been under treatment by a doctor for some time.
• 8:01 a.m.: The fact that Lubitz appears to have ripped up recent medical leave notes "leads to the preliminary conclusion that the deceased kept his illness secret from his employer and his professional environment."
• 8:01 a.m.: Investigators found no goodbye letter, and no evidence of political or religious motivation, the prosecutor's office said.
"It seems clear that he deliberately ignored the doctor's directive," a spokesperson said.
The revelation came after teams emerged late Thursday from Lubitz's parents' home in Montabaur — some 40 miles northwest of Frankfurt — carrying blue bags, a big cardboard box and what looked like a large computer. Another person who came out was shielded from reporters by police, the Associated Press reported.
Investigators also searched the apartment that Lubitz kept in an upscale three-story building in an affluent neighborhood in Dusseldorf.
A friend of Lubitz said: "His nickname was 'Tomato Andi' - a reference to his past employment as a flight steward," adding that he worked for nearly a year for Lufthansa as a cabin attendant before being accepted for flight training.
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Dusseldorf. It confirmed the suspicion that the co-pilot who brought the misfortune machine from German Wings crash was mentally ill. In addition, Andreas L. was sick on the day of the crash. A suicide note was not found.
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When Mr Lubitz finished training in 2009, he was diagnosed with a serious depressive episode and went on to receive treatment for a year and a half, the German news site Bild reports.
Internal documents quoted by Bild and German broadcaster ARD say a note on Mr Lubitz's aviation authority file recommended regular psychological assessment.
Did he have "regular psychological assessment"? Were the results available to/sent to the airline?
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German news media painted a picture of a man with a history of depression who had received psychological treatment, and who may have been set off by a falling out with his girlfriend. [...]
Lufthansa CEO Carsten Spohr said there was a "several-month" gap in Lubitz's training six years ago, but would not elaborate. Following the disruption, he said, Lubitz "not only passed all medical tests but also his flight training, all flying tests and checks."
The U.S. Federal Aviation Administration had issued Lubitz a third-class medical certificate. In order to obtain such a certificate, a pilot must be cleared of psychological problems including psychosis, bipolar disorder and personality disorder "that is severe enough to have repeatedly manifested itself by overt acts."
The certificate also means that he wasn't found to be suffering from another mental health condition that "makes the person unable to safely perform the duties or exercise the privileges" of a pilot's license.
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• 11:49 a.m.: Germanwings says it didn't receive a sick note for the day of the flight.
• 10:57 a.m.: A letter found in a waste bin in Andreas Lubitz's apartment indicated he "was declared by a medical doctor unfit to work," Dusseldorf prosecutor Christoph Kumpa said.
Dusseldorf University Hospital confirmed Lubitz was a patient there and his last visit was two weeks before the crash. They denied that the treatment was related to depression, but they have handed over all of his medical records to German investigators.
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so, it's not like the airline or governing agency did not know about this, as NY Times implies 'hid evidence' re: the doctors letter.
it is obviously that the system itself did not work at all visa vis assessing the mental health of an airline pilot.
the question is why.
The party responsible is decreased.
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is going to be astronomical...
The party responsible is decreased.
deceased
so, it's not like the airline or governing agency did not know about this, as NY Times implies 'hid evidence' re: the doctors letter.
it is obviously that the system itself did not work at all visa vis assessing the mental health of an airline pilot.
the question is why.
Good question. Why don't the Drs. report directly to Lufthansa? Hippa(does europe have hippa)? Sounds like after the physical the patient must present the FFD of NFFD slip to the airline.
[Previous story, posted at 2:58 p.m. ET]
Germanwings co-pilot Andreas Lubitz was hiding an illness from his employers and had been declared "unfit to work" by a doctor, according to German authorities investigating what could have prompted the seemingly competent and stable pilot to steer his jetliner into a French mountain.
Investigators found a letter saying that Lubitz, 27, wasn't fit to do his job in the waste bin of his Dusseldorf, Germany, apartment, city prosecutor Christoph Kumpa said Friday. The note, Kumpa said, had been "slashed."
ust what was ailing Lubitz hasn't been revealed. A Dusseldorf clinic said he'd gone there twice, most recently two weeks ago, "concerning a diagnosis." But the University Clinic said it had not treated Lubitz for depression, as some media reports have indicated.
German investigators said they still have interviews and other work to do before they'll be able to reveal just what they found in the records in Lubitz's apartment in a quiet, suburban neighborhood.
They found no goodbye note or confession, authorities said.
But the fact that investigators found "ripped, recent medical leave notes, including for the day of the offense, leads to the preliminary conclusion that the deceased kept his illness secret from his employer and his professional environment," prosecutors said.
Airline staff are encouraged to report strange behaviour on the part of their colleagues, but a former pilot told the BBC that peer pressure could act as a brake on this process. "All the safety nets we are all so proud of here have not worked in this case," Carsten Spohr, Lufthansa's chief, admitted on Thursday.
But Mr Spohr also said: "No matter your safety regulations, no matter how high you set the bar, and we have incredibly high standards, there is no way to rule out such an event. This is an awful one-off event."
Pilot suicides are incredibly rare. A 2014 study by the Federal Aviation Authority identified eight such instances in the US between 2003 and 2012, accounting for 0.29% of all fatal aviation aircraft accidents. All the pilots involved had been medically screened and none had demonstrated mental disorder, depression or suicidal thoughts.
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which it is.
However:
1. If the understanding (of the place that depression can have visa-vis more serious or dangerous mental illness) is incorrect, then even the patient is not getting the help he needs to become healthy.
2. there are also some public institutions that interface with mental health and it's understanding. These have responsibilities that go far beyond the private (patient/doctor) relationship:
Institutions such as Air Control in this case, courts of all types, law enforcement, and so forth.
If these institutions are being fed, (or simply by dint of culture, operating on) any false assumptions or backwards understandings, even in what seem like details, in the current DSM or simply in the culture of the mental health industry, then those institutions will be less able to do the job of protecting the people, as they in turn, will be blinded when taking decisions.
Snippet from the BBc ...
The fact that Lubitz appears to have been signed off as sick raises the question of whether there was - or should have been - contact between his doctors and the airline. Medical practitioners take an oath to maintain patient confidentiality, but some US states have expanded doctors' duty of care to the community at large. This allows them to warn third parties if they think it is necessary.
They also indicate he has a history related to whatever this treatment is.
If I were a wagering man, I'd say she dumped him and he mentally tried to stay afloat but eventually fell apart, and chose to pull the plug.
Lubitz had been excused from work by his treating neuropsychologist for a period that included the day of the crash [...]
BERLIN—Andreas Lubitz, the Germanwings co-pilot who crashed an airliner into a French mountainside, was being treated for depression, a fact he concealed from his employer, according to a person familiar with the investigation.
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Internal documents quoted by Bild and German broadcaster ARD say a note on Mr Lubitz's aviation authority file recommended regular psychological assessment. ''
The Germanwings tragedy highlights a broader industry dilemma: reliance on pilots themselves to disclose serious physical or psychological ailments to their employer—and what can happen when secrecy urges or privacy considerations trump full disclosure, safety and medial experts say.
Despite mandatory, regular medical exams—supplemented by company-specific safeguards intended to periodically check on aviators’ skills and psychological state—airlines ultimately depend on employees to honestly assess and report when they shouldn’t be flying.
In return, Germanwings, a unit of Deutsche Lufthansa AG, and many other airlines around the globe promise to avoid punishing pilots who comply with that guiding principle.
While Mr. Lubitz had sought to conceal his depression, there was no evidence that the fear of losing his medical classification as being fit to fly—due for renewal in July—triggered his actions, though “this would be a plausible explanation,” the person said.
This person said there was no evidence that Mr. Lubitz was under mind-altering medication that could have clouded his judgment in the cockpit.
“When someone makes the same decision five or six times all leading toward one specific end you have to assume they are acting intentionally,” the person said, alluding to Mr. Lubitz’s lack of reaction when urged by the pilot to open the locked cockpit door.
A spokesman for Lufthansa said Friday that: “All we know was that he had a clean background.” He said earlier that Lufthansa would now consider whether it needs to change its screening procedures.
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Internal documents quoted by Bild and German broadcaster ARD say a note on Mr Lubitz's aviation authority file recommended regular psychological assessment. ''
Wow ... cue the lawsuits.
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''When Mr Lubitz finished training in 2009, he was diagnosed with a serious depressive episode and went on to receive treatment for a year and a half, the German news site Bild reports.
Internal documents quoted by Bild and German broadcaster ARD say a note on Mr Lubitz's aviation authority file recommended regular psychological assessment. ''
Wow ... cue the lawsuits.
Who can they sue - the German Gov't for issuing the license? His estate?
Not sure if you understood me - I agree with everything you revealed/said.
After this - privacy rights be damned (and I mean that). If you want to be a pilot on a major commercial airlines (where every flight one is responsible for 100+ lives) - every single medical/psychological should be directly submitted to the airlines. PERIOD.
Now ... if you are delivering supplies to remote parts of Alaska - smoke all the Pot you want, drink all the alcohol you want. take all the anti-depressants you want .... and THEN GO DRIVE INTO A SIDE OF THE MOUNTAIN (by yourself).
say what you want about weather or not we have a meritocracy here, in the USA, personally I think it is a mixed bag.
but, when it comes to piloting, captaining vessels,and the like, we dont fuck around as much as say, Korea (see news last year) and, apparently, Germany, Italy (news the year before)
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Not sure if you understood me - I agree with everything you revealed/said.
After this - privacy rights be damned (and I mean that). If you want to be a pilot on a major commercial airlines (where every flight one is responsible for 100+ lives) - every single medical/psychological should be directly submitted to the airlines. PERIOD.
Now ... if you are delivering supplies to remote parts of Alaska - smoke all the Pot you want, drink all the alcohol you want. take all the anti-depressants you want .... and THEN GO DRIVE INTO A SIDE OF THE MOUNTAIN (by yourself).
Smoking pot, booze, prescribed meds. Odd grouping.
Why would he go for treatment if it'd be reported? Just skip it altogether.
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'I'm planning a heinous act that will be remembered forever': Killer pilot's ex-girlfriend says he shared chilling prophecy before Alps crash and woke up from nightmares shouting 'we're going down'
Andreas Lubitz told former girlfriend he was planning an act so horrifying his name would be remembered forever
He was a master of hiding his darkest thoughts and frightened his former lover so much she decided to leave him
Startling revelations add weight to claims the pilot concealed medical condition that should have stopped him flying
Comes after it emerged Lubitz should have been off sick on day he deliberately crashed plane into mountainside
Torn-up sick notes have been found in 27-year-old's flat which showed he had hidden extent of illness from airline
Killer pilot Andreas Lubitz told his ex-girlfriend he was planning an act so heinous his name would be remembered for ever, it was sensationally claimed last night.
Lubitz was a tormented, erratic man who was a master of hiding his darkest thoughts and would wake up from nightmares screaming ‘we’re going down’, his former partner said.
She revealed to a German newspaper how Lubitz ominously told her last year: ‘One day I will do something that will change the whole system, and then all will know my name and remember it.’
When she heard about the crash of Germanwings Flight 4U9525 on Tuesday, she remembered Lubitz’s menacing prophecy. ‘I never knew what he meant, but now it makes sense,’ she told Bild.
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They also indicate he has a history related to whatever this treatment is.
If I were a wagering man, I'd say she dumped him and he mentally tried to stay afloat but eventually fell apart, and chose to pull the plug.
This was my thought when they first declared it suicide/murder. Outside of terrorism the only time I've seen people at their absolute most distraught is after a break up OR drug withdraw.
A member of the Montabaur flight school where Andreas Lubitz took lessons confirmed to BBC News the co-pilot had flown a glider over the region.
Mr Lubitz was on holiday at the time, several years ago, Dieter Wagner said.
A French newspaper reports that the co-pilot holidayed at a local flying club with his parents from the age of nine.
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is going to be astronomical...
The party responsible is decreased.
Um, have you considered the people suing the airline for employing someone who may not have been fit for flying duty?
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In comment 12207227 idiotsavant said:
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''When Mr Lubitz finished training in 2009, he was diagnosed with a serious depressive episode and went on to receive treatment for a year and a half, the German news site Bild reports.
Internal documents quoted by Bild and German broadcaster ARD say a note on Mr Lubitz's aviation authority file recommended regular psychological assessment. ''
Wow ... cue the lawsuits.
Who can they sue - the German Gov't for issuing the license? His estate?
The freaking airiilne!
The Germanwings co-pilot thought to have deliberately crashed his Airbus in the French Alps, killing 150 people, predicted "one day everyone will know my name", his ex-girlfriend says.
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Not sure if you understood me - I agree with everything you revealed/said.
After this - privacy rights be damned (and I mean that). If you want to be a pilot on a major commercial airlines (where every flight one is responsible for 100+ lives) - every single medical/psychological should be directly submitted to the airlines. PERIOD.
Let me try and inform you a little, beyond what you read in the Mirror, CNN, Fox, etc. Every year (6 months if over 40) pilots have to go to an FAA designated Aviation Medical Examiner (AME) for a physical. There are 3 classes - I, II, and III. Airline Pilots hold Class I medical certificates - the most stringent.
Before each exam, we fill out an extensive form. Among other things, we indicate what we've been previously diagnosed with, as well as listing all medications taken and we have to list every visit to a medical professional in the past 3 years. Additionally, we have to disclose serious driving infractions and other legal trouble (drugs, DUI, etc). We then self-certify that our statements are TRUE. False statements can land a pilot in hot water and may result in certificate action by the FAA or worse. The form is checked against the NDR and other databases such as the VA to ensure accuracy. There have been pilots in the past who have gotten in trouble for not disclosing that they were receiving disability benefits, or had gotten a DUI, etc.
There is also a component of a psychological examination, where the AME is assessing the mental condition of the airman through conversation and some questions.
This is a terrible tragedy, orchestrated by what seems to be a very troubled and deranged person. The media has done nothing but fear monger into the public that pilots shouldn't be trusted and should be viewed as suspicious. There was even a CNN article about how should we protect ourselves against pilots...
Every aviator I know and work with, including myself, values nothing more than the people and equipment we've been entrusted with. I take tremendous pride in ensuring that not only am I mentally and physically fit to operate each flight, but to ensure that I am technically proficient. Perhaps more selfishly, I personally would like to get home after each trip to hug my wife and son. When I was a new pilot, one of my first Captains told me "Take care of your own ass, and everyone else's will follow!"
We devote our lives to this profession, having spent thousands of dollars to become certified, spending many nights away from home, and putting our careers on the line several times a year through medical and proficiency checking. We don't shy away from the responsibility. It is very frustrating when I read comments like "These planes fly themselves" or "we should go to remote controlled airliners." Aviation is a great example of how humans can work together to make a system (nearly) flawless. The safety record speaks for itself.
Keep in mind, there is risk in everything we do as humans. We've done an amazing job of mitigating risk in the airline industry and developing technologies to make flying safe, dependable, and even reliable. We're a victim of our own success in that we take this form of transportation for granted, thanks in no small part to the uninformed talking heads of the media, and those who bash the profession for reasons unknown.
If you are the slightest bit apprehensive, I suggest next time you fly, ask to stop up in the cockpit and see what's going on. If I'm up there, I'll be glad to do my part to de-mystify it for you and show you some of the tools we have at our disposal to make sure you get where you're going safely, comfortably, and maybe even on time.
it sounds nice, but, de-facto, the German system clearly did NOT work, so.
if he was psychotic (obviously) and really needed a strong anti-psychotic medication, in a large dose
but was only on anti-depressants, this would explain it.
currently, the emphasis in the DSM might be more on 'mood' and 'getting the individual up and running'
whereas, with the strong anti-psychotic, the individual might stay in bad all day, that actually being the most rational and appropriate response to his previously ill-based life. it IS sad to be crazy...so...
if the current status of the DSM makes 'depression' (which, in the mind of some psychotics, is sometimes, what they call normal life, i.e. the absence of grandiosity or mania) the big target, as opposed to psychosis, things like this are more likely to happen from time to time.
thank god. someone is using some common sense.
see; italy/korea and so forth.
however, the problem with the DSM and societal blindness may be hurting us in other areas. at one point we had a thread about a pathological narcisist who shot up a bunch of people in california, at (a mall or street corner) , many other incidences, many similar discussions.
A source in the police investigation team told the newspaper: 'This is clear from personal notes stored and collected by the pilot.'
'Severe burnout syndrome' is a state of emotional, mental and physical ‎exhaustion and is often linked to those in jobs with high stress levels.
It's symptoms include alienation and negativity towards their work environment and colleagues and it is also known to cause suicidal tendencies and anger issues.
The startling revelation adds weight to claims the pilot concealed a medical condition that should have stopped him flying.
His former lover Maria, who claimed to have dated Lubitz for five months after the pair met while flying across Europe together, said he 'never really' spoke of illness but she was aware he was receiving psychiatric treatment.
She said they spent 'several nights' in hotels together and described him as a 'nice and open-minded' man.
However, she claimed there was a difference between his professional and his private ego, with him being 'soft' and needing love when the couple were alone but becoming 'someone else' when they talked about work.
She told Bild: 'We spoke a lot about work and then he became another person. He became agitated about the circumstances in which he had to work, too little money, anxiety about his contract and too much pressure.'
His personal problems and erratic behaviour became so severe that the flight attendant decided to call the relationship off after fearing his increasingly volatile temper.
'During conversations he'd suddenly throw a tantrum and scream at me,' she said. 'I was afraid. He even once locked me in the bathroom for a long time.'
Despite parting from Lubitz, Maria said previous conversations with him suddenly 'made sense' when she heard about the crash.
She said: ‘When I heard about the crash, there was just a tape playing in my head of what he said, “One day I will do something that will change the system and everyone will then know my name and remember me”.
‘I did not know what he meant by that at the time, but now it’s clear.’
She added: 'The torn up sick notes make sense now to me and were a clear sign that he did not want to admit that his big dream of flying as a captain was over.'
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Feel free to complain for all of us.
Here's a look on why regional pay is so low: Basically you have several regional airlines competing for a certain amount of flying put out by major carrier partners. Usually these contracts are signed for x number of aircraft for x number of years. Regionals know that guys who are flight instructing, or flying freight want to move to the airlines to start building jet time and eventually upgrade to Captain so they can move on to the major airlines. It costs a lot to train the pilots, and since year 1 is a pilot's probationary year, pay is often low. (Year 1 pay is comparatively lower than year 2 and on at every airline across the board.)
The problem with the regionals, is that the bargaining power of the pilots is limited. For example, Airline A has a contract to fly for Delta. Towards the end of that contract, Delta sends out an RFP for other airlines. Airline B pays its employees substantially less and can do the job for cheaper. Airline A management threatens its pilots saying unless we cut our costs airline B will get the flying and you'll all be out of the job and will have to start over. (Or they say, if you take pay cuts, we'll get more flying allocated to us)
So fearful of starting over, Airline A accepts concessions to keep their jobs (or acquire new flying). Wash rinse repeat.
In the airline pilot circles this is known as the "Race to the Bottom" or the "Whipsaw".
Now Captain pay at regionals is respectable but not great, usually lower end in the mid 60s up to around low 100s for more senior guys at companies' with a better contract. So as you can imagine, generally once the guys reach these levels, they're less inclined to want to "rock the boat".
Airlines know most guys come to the regionals as a stepping stone, and that pilots want rapid movement to the Captain's seat, which happens through growth. That's why they'll generally accept lower wages. It's a sick cycle and no one has the cojones to break it, because there's always someone out there willing to do it for less.
I'm of the opinion that the legacy airlines should reduce the amount of outsourcing they are doing, especially on the longer routes. Bringing that flying back in house is a win-win for everyone. More major jobs at better pay, mainline aircraft serving more cities, and better passenger convenience. But your flights from Philly to State College or Chicago to Kalamazoo probably couldn't sustain a 737 sized aircraft. Regionals have a niche - it should be smaller markets.
''Die Welt, a German newspaper, cited an unidentified senior investigator who said that Lubitz suffered from a severe "psychosomatic illness" and that German police seized prescription drugs that treat the condition. Lubitz suffered from a "severe subjective burnout syndrome" and from severe depression, the source told Die Welt.
The New York Times also reported that antidepressants were found during the search of his apartment. CNN has not been able to confirm the reports.''
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Most pilots in the UK start at a flight training school, says a spokesman for the Civil Aviation Authority, the UK regulator. But these schools do not screen out candidates for psychological reasons. They are purely looking at someone's ability to fly.
Once the pilot gets a job with an airline they will have a medical before they can fly passengers. Captain Mike Vivian, a former head of Flight Operations at the CAA, said this is "very intensive".
This process does involve an element of psychological screening. Candidates are asked about their background, including their interests and family relationships, as well as whether they had suffered depression or had suicidal feelings, Vivian suggests.
But the screening processes appears to rely on the candidate's answers and the examiner's judgement of their answers. "There is an element of trust in it. We have to trust," says Vivian.
[...]
Most of the medical relates to the pilot's physiology - height, weight, blood and urine. The mental health aspect is small and general in tone. Just six lines out of a three and a half page guidance document set out what the "psychiatric" aspect should cover:
"During assessment of the applicant's history, the doctor should make a general enquiry about mental health which may include mood, sleep and alcohol use. The doctor should observe the applicant during the process of the examination and assess the mental state of the applicant under the broad headings of appearance/ speech/ mood/ thinking/ perception/ cognition/ insight. The doctor should also be looking out for any signs of alcohol or drug misuse."
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That's been debated throughout the industry heavily lately. I'm still forming my opinion but I can give you some of my thoughts.
I learned to fly in the late 1990s and early 2000s. I, like those before me, came up flying "steam gauge" Cessnas, Pipers, Mooneys, King Airs, etc. GPS in aircraft was still pretty new, and most of the training involved learning to maneuver and navigate the airplane by reference to the instruments, and visual cues. Autopilots in the small General Aviation (GA) aircraft were still pretty rare also, so everything was hand flown. In fact, many of us have an inherent "distrust" of automation sometimes. (Although in reality, many automation systems make our job a bit easier since we can now focus on other tasks).
In the mid-2000s, many small GA aircraft began being outfitted with "glass cockpits" meaning flat panel multifunctional displays that had tons of information, GPS, and autopilots. I think today, those who begin training, especially at large "pilot factory" places learn pretty exclusively on these aircraft. A large component of that training is learning how to manage all the information, whereas before it seemed most of the training was how to manage the aircraft's energy and flight path (while keeping the NAV needles centered). Whereas the older generation of pilots were skeptical of automation, the opinion around is that many new pilots rely on the automations.
Before, we used to need to know how to navigate to and from beacons, intercept courses, determine locations of intersection fixes, fly non precision approaches, etc. Today, those concepts are taught but not to the extend they were in the past. Those practices were very beneficial in building a pilot's "situational awareness".
With newer aircraft, you pretty much hit Direct in the GPS and follow the magenta line. Aircraft have flight directors, and autopilots linked to nav systems.
We also see a lot of foreign pilots train in the US because it is cost prohibitive in their native lands. They come here, train for a few hundred hours, then go back and fly as copilots in heavy jet transports. Many don't toil as flight instructors or have the "opportunity" to fly barely airworthy aircraft to build time. That experience is really invaluable.
So to answer your question, there are great and not-so-great pilots who've come out of both schools of training.
I think those who learned in a time where flying the airplane first was the goal may have easier times managing things in an emergency, and are more leery of automation, whereas those who were trained exclusively in very automated aircraft have come to rely on it. There's not much data that I know of, but many a pilot has the opinion that these new-generation pilots may be great systems and automation experts but may struggle when the automation doesn't do what they expect it to do.
I suggest you watch a YouTube video called "Children of Magenta".
Children of Magenta - Automation Dependency - ( New Window )
Also, several US airlines have personality and psychological screening as part of their application and interview process.
Another source of screening are the references and performance histories of each pilot candidate. Thorough background checks are conducted prior to employment to look at criminal history, training history, and employment history.
Can someone slip through the cracks? Probably; it's not a perfect system, and someone could have something happen in their lives after they've passed the screening. That's where other mitigations (such as 2 people in the cockpit at all times) need to be implemented. It's all part of risk management.
(Knock on wood) this is a rare and freak occurrence. Every pilot I know takes this very personally. We spend a lifetime of hard work building trust in our passengers, and an event like this makes everyone question a system that for all intents and purposes, works.
Hope that answered your question.
The source said the girlfriend told investigators the couple were working through the issues together and "were optimistic" they could solve the problems. She was just as surprised as everyone else by what he did, the source says.
According to the source, the girlfriend told investigators she knew Lubitz had been to see two doctors.
The source says those doctors -- an eye doctor and neuropsychologist -- deemed him unfit to work recently. Both doctors came to the same conclusion that he had psychological issues, the source said.
The source had earlier told CNN that Lubitz had complained about vision problems and had gone to see an eye doctor. The eye doctor, the source said, had diagnosed a psychosomatic disorder and had given him an "unfit for work" note.
One of the working theories investigators are looking at is whether Lubitz was afraid his medical condition would cause him to lose his pilot's license, the source added.
"Obviously flying was a big part of his life," the source said, but he made clear that investigators see this as only one possible motive.
Another source, a law enforcement official briefed on the investigation, told CNN earlier Tuesday that authorities believe the primary motive for Lubitz to bring down the plane was that he feared he would not be allowed to fly because of his medical problems.
The European government official briefed on the investigation reiterated that German media tabloid reports that the girlfriend is pregnant or had major personal problems are all speculation and rumor.
The girlfriend and the co-pilot had not, as was widely reported by some media, broken up the day before the crash, the source said.
Updated 8:14 AM ET, Tue March 31, 2015 - ( New Window )
Mistakenly under the belief that he was losing his eyesight and would lose his job as a result, Andreas Lubitz also spent time visiting websites related to suicide, a Dusseldorf police source said.
The killer pilot had reportedly been living 'on the edge' because he feared his deteriorating vision, possibly due to a detached retina, would cost him his pilot's licence. But investigators now believe his condition was simply a nervous, psychosomatic disorder and not physical at all.
The details emerged as German prosecutors revealed Lubitz had previously received psychotherapy 'with a note about suicidal tendencies' several years ago, before he became a pilot.
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3018160/Killer-pilot-Andreas-Lubitz-treated-suicidal-tendencies-years-Alps-crash-trawling-gay-porn-websites-doomed-flight-prosecutors-reveal.html#ixzz3VxwMa8uf
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The airline said they handed those files over to investigators.
In the statement, Lufthansa confirmed that Andreas Lubitz had taken a break "for several months" during his training and when he returned in 2009, he submitted forms "about a 'previous episode of severe depression
In spite of that admission, he went on to receive "the medical certificate confirming his fitness to fly" and he went on to complete his training and earn a spot as a co-pilot for Germanwings, a subsidiary of Lufthansa.
Mar 31, 2015, 1:22 PM ET - ( New Window )
Taken on a cell phone, the video "was so chaotic that it was hard to identify people, but the sounds of the screaming passengers made it perfectly clear that they were aware of what was about to happen to them," according to the French magazine Paris Match, which obtained the video along with the German newspaper Bild.
"One can hear cries of 'My God' in several languages. Metallic banging can also be heard more than three times, perhaps of the pilot trying to open the cockpit door with a heavy object. Towards the end, after a heavy shake, stronger than the others, the screaming intensifies. Then nothing," Paris Match reports.
The two publications described the video but did not post the video itself.
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It is becoming increasingly clear to investigators that Lubitz was "very afraid" he would lose his license to fly because of his medical issues, the source said.
As a result, Lubitz kept going from one doctor to the next seeking help, he said.
The 27-year-old was having trouble sleeping, and one of the doctors he saw recently was a sleep specialist, the source said.
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Analysis of search terms from the browser history on a device seized during a raid on his home suggested the co-pilot of doomed Flight 4U9525 sought information about medical treatments as well as "types and implementation methods of a suicide," Attorney-General Ralf Herrenbrück from the Dusseldorf prosecutor's office told reporters.
"On at least one day the concerned person spent several minutes with search words about cockpit doors and their security measures," he added.
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I would amend that to if the German/EU authorities knew of his medical history, then he should never have received his license.
If he has a valid license and met the annual or bi-annual medical requirements, what would keep him out of the cockpit? I don't think the EU is as litigious as the US, but if he was accepted by the governing authorities doesn't that open the individual company to discrimination suits if they unilaterally dismiss him?
Unless and until these physicals are done at government facilities governing the issuance of these licenses, there is little to nothing an individual company can do except to go by the findings of accepted doctors.
It is a loophole (a big one) that this guy was able to exploit. At least at a government run facility, the findings would be almost instantaneous and a direct report to Lufthansa could have been issued.
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Well that's interesting I guess, but this wasnt a suicide. It was mass murder.
Well that's interesting I guess, but this wasnt a suicide. It was mass murder.
It was both, if it really matters.
The BEA said the preliminary reading of the data recorder shows that the pilot used the automatic pilot to put the plane into a descent and then repeatedly during the descent adjusted the automatic pilot to speed up the plane. The agency says it will continue studying the black box for more complete details of what happened.
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That view is consistent with French officials' claims Wednesday insisting that two publications, German daily Bild and French Paris Match, were wrong to report that cell phone video showed the harrowing final seconds from on board the flight.
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Identification of the victims will continue with analysis of the DNA found and debris will carry on being removed.
Meanwhile reports said the European Commission took issue with Germany's aviation authority before the crash.
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An EU commission spokesman said that, based on the EASA findings, it had “told Germany to get its aviation industry in conformity” with the rules.
“Germany’s responses are currently being evaluated,” he added.
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The 27-year-old was consulting at least five doctors, Der Spiegel reported, including psychiatric specialists and a neurologist.
“For a young man he consulted an astonishing number of doctors,” an investigator told the magazine, which has seen a report on Lubitz’s treatment.
Five separate practices have so far handed their information on the co-pilot to investigators and more may yet come forward.
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