NFT: GermanWings plane crash gets... Stranger

was very surprised how definitive the prosecutor was, and he said it multiple times. No way here in the US would a prosecutor barely 48 hours outside the crash and 12 hours from finding out about the recordings be that definitive. He left no doubt, which obviously appears to be the case. Said on numerous occasions that the co-pilot's breathing pattern appeared normal throughout the whole process, but he didn't say a word. Not one word as the pilot is literally pounding on the door and the flight is heading into the side of a mountain for 10 minutes. Thats about all the proof you need.

Nothing worse then feeling helpless.

It's all considered Sensitive Security Info by TSA. We're not supposed to disclose this info. I'm surprised and shocked at the amount of info being divulged on the news channels with regards to cockpit entry procedures. Right now CNN is showing how access the door lock!

No medical emergency

Quote:

Marseilles prosecutor Brice Robin indicated that was indeed the case, saying it appears that co-pilot Andreas Lubitz, who was at the controls, intended to "destroy this plane." Lubitz began the descent manually and "intentionally" reports the AP, and was conscious until impact. The Guardian reports that the revelations came by way of the cockpit voice recorder's last 30 minutes. The initial 20 minutes capture normal conversation, says Robin; at that point, the pilot leaves to make a "natural call." In what Robin classified as a "voluntary" move, the 28-year-old German co-pilot then manually accelerated the descent, having pressed "the buttons of the flight monitoring system," per the BBC. The pilot's entreaties to be let in go unanswered, and the co-pilot's breathing can be heard; he doesn't utter a single word. Though the plane had a keypad that could be used to gain entry outside the cockpit door, the New York Times reports by way of an Airbus video that someone in the cockpit can move a "toggle to a position marked 'locked'"; doing so renders the keypad useless for five minutes.

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In comment 12203966 DC Gmen Fan said:

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It's all considered Sensitive Security Info by TSA. We're not supposed to disclose this info. I'm surprised and shocked at the amount of info being divulged on the news channels with regards to cockpit entry procedures. Right now CNN is showing how access the door lock!

Wow. Yeah, you're totally right. Didn't really think about it that way. Makes total sense. Thanks DC.

it is SOP that a flight attendant goes into the cockpit until they return

In comment 12203977 Headhunter said:

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it is SOP that a flight attendant goes into the cockpit until they return

According to the morning news this is SOP in the US but not Europe. Looks like it should be.

I beleive the third was the "navigator" or something.

Technology and economics have long passed that by

707, 727, 747 Classics, the DC-10, L-1011, DC-8 were the last jets that had F/Es. There are no more F/Es in the US Passenger Fleet.

a FA comes in if a pilot steps away.

If you're going to kill yourself, don't take 149 innocent people with you.

I would conclude that if this nut wanted to suicide along with 149 other people, a flight attendant in the pilot's seat would likely not have prevented it.

If you want to die flying rent a Cessna and crash your own sorry ass.
If your pissed at the airline then sabotage them. But taking innocent lives to dramatize your exit is got to be the most chicken shit thing to do ever. I

In comment 12204165 Ten Ton Hammer said:

Quote:

I would conclude that if this nut wanted to suicide along with 149 other people, a flight attendant in the pilot's seat would likely not have prevented it.

Having to subdue a FA would take balls something this guy never had.

reminds me of that Malaysia airline flight 370 that disappeared into Indian Ocean, that was most likely due to pilot interventions.

recent AP article - very sad.


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In comment 12203966 DC Gmen Fan said:

Quote:

It's all considered Sensitive Security Info by TSA. We're not supposed to disclose this info. I'm surprised and shocked at the amount of info being divulged on the news channels with regards to cockpit entry procedures. Right now CNN is showing how access the door lock!

The media can really out do themselves on their level of stupidity sometimes.

Will probably have this as their "breaking news" for weeks now...again.

That crazy bastard flew them all into the mountainside on purpose. Nuts!

In comment 12204181 spike said:

Quote:

reminds me of that Malaysia airline flight 370 that disappeared into Indian Ocean, that was most likely due to pilot interventions.

Yeah
Pilot interventions
(Smiles)

are now reporting he previously battled depression.

.

the Pilot had to know that he had to gain access to the cockpit... I'm sure he didn't just stand there and bang on the door (sorry CNN). I know these doors are secure, but I cant' believe there would be no way to force entry... Very strange situation.

what a helpless feeling for that Captain and the people on the plane

as opposed to taking 150 people with you. He didn't want to just kill himself or he would have done that.

Two people must be in the cockpit at all times on Canadian airlines, effective immediately.
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behind him. If he was so depressed & wanted to end his life, jump from there. Don't crash a plane & take 150 innocent souls with you.

A total coward.

• 5:32 p.m. ET: Transponder data shows that the autopilot on Germanwings Flight 9525 was reprogrammed by someone in the cockpit to change the plane's altitude from 38,000 feet to 100 feet, according to Flightradar24, a website that tracks aviation data.

Flightradar24:
We have analysed the raw data from the transponder of #4U9525 and found some more dat
We have analysed the raw data from the transponder of #4U9525 and found some more data apart from the regular position/altitude data.
These are the decoded ModeS (Downlink Format 20) frames which contain replies to interrogating radar requests (Upling Format 20).

[...]

Between 09:30:52 and 09:30:55 we can see that the autopilot was manually changed from 38,000 feet to 100 feet and 9 seconds later the aircraft started to descend, probably with the "open descent" autopilot setting.
The reason why the selected altitude is 96ft is that least significant bit for altitude setting equals 16 ft, and we suspect that you can’t set autopilot to 0000 altitude, so the minimum would be 100ft down rounded to 96ft in binary representation in BDS40h register.
Any comments or thoughts about this?

Playback: http://www.flightradar24.com/data/fl...u9525/#5d42675

This data has also been handled over to BEA 2 days ago.


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I just got back from work and heard a report on radio he may have been protesting how gay pilots are treated. Don't know if this is possible motive

He was a stewarder with lufthanza before he became co-pilot

In comment 12205192 Rich Houston-NYG-WR-1971 said:

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I just got back from work and heard a report on radio he may have been protesting how gay pilots are treated. Don't know if this is possible motive He was a stewarder with lufthanza before he became co-pilot

Rich - Why are you asking us ? Did you see him at the secret meetings or not ?

In comment 12205192 Rich Houston-NYG-WR-1971 said:

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I just got back from work and heard a report on radio he may have been protesting how gay pilots are treated. Don't know if this is possible motive He was a stewarder with lufthanza before he became co-pilot

Go the fuck away...

???

Mass-killer co-pilot who deliberately crashed Germanwings plane had to STOP training because he was suffering depression and 'burn-out'. German police make 'significant discovery' at his flat
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In comment 12205237 Rich Houston-NYG-WR-1971 said:

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???

He said you're gay - pay attention!

that he not post on anything but Football threads?

Rich don't follow no stinkin' rules, he is bigger than BBI

receiving training.

begs the questions:

depressive, bi-polar, personality disorder or what?

did he also have mania?

and what -medications- was he on, if any, that may have effected his judgement?, in addition,

was he diagnosed correctly, is the DMS in order for depression when there are other corresponding diagnoses?

are they putting the cart of depression before the horse of [other, more negative, disorders that sometimes overlap]?

'just depression' is easier to medicate.

however, it is often the case that depression can correspond with bi-polar and / or serious and scary personality disorders.

one might need a serious dose of anti-psychotic medication, and to be told that 'airline pilot is not a career choice.'

however, it is much 'nicer' to just say 'mood disorder' and give the one med and a pat on the back.

you say that 'that is private between a patient and his doctor'

which it is.

However:

1. If the understanding (of the place that depression can have visa-vis more serious or dangerous mental illness) is incorrect, then even the patient is not getting the help he needs to become healthy.

2. there are also some public institutions that interface with mental health and it's understanding. These have responsibilities that go far beyond the private (patient/doctor) relationship:

Institutions such as Air Control in this case, courts of all types, law enforcement, and so forth.

If these institutions are being fed, (or simply by dint of culture, operating on) any false assumptions or backwards understandings, even in what seem like details, in the current DSM or simply in the culture of the mental health industry, then those institutions will be less able to do the job of protecting the people, as they in turn, will be blinded when taking decisions.

• 8:45 a.m.: Medical notes were found in a waste bin in Germanwings Flight 9525 co-pilot Andreas Lubitz's apartment in Dusseldorf, Germany, said Dusseldorf prosecutor Christoph Kumpa.

• 8:01 a.m.: The medical leave notes issued by a doctor for Lubitz included the day of the crash, the Dusseldorf public prosecutor's office said.

• 8:01 a.m.: The prosecutor's office did not say if the medical leave note related to a physical or a mental health issue but said Lubitz appeared to have been under treatment by a doctor for some time.

• 8:01 a.m.: The fact that Lubitz appears to have ripped up recent medical leave notes "leads to the preliminary conclusion that the deceased kept his illness secret from his employer and his professional environment."

• 8:01 a.m.: Investigators found no goodbye letter, and no evidence of political or religious motivation, the prosecutor's office said.

The prosecutor did not elaborate on what type of illness they believe Lubitz was hiding, but reports in the German press suggested the young man could have suffered a "serious depressive episode" during his training.

Herrenbrueck's office later told NBC News that investigators had found a sick leave certificate valid for "several days" including Tuesday — the day of the crash. They also found the certificate's carbon copy, which is supposed to be presented to employers.

"It seems clear that he deliberately ignored the doctor's directive," a spokesperson said.

The revelation came after teams emerged late Thursday from Lubitz's parents' home in Montabaur — some 40 miles northwest of Frankfurt — carrying blue bags, a big cardboard box and what looked like a large computer. Another person who came out was shielded from reporters by police, the Associated Press reported.

Investigators also searched the apartment that Lubitz kept in an upscale three-story building in an affluent neighborhood in Dusseldorf.

Meanwhile Bild, the German newspaper, reported that "Lubitz had a serious relationship crisis with his girlfriend before the disaster and the resulting heartbreak is thought to have led to this," said Bild. "Investigators are currently pursuing this line of enquiry with vigour."

A friend of Lubitz said: "His nickname was 'Tomato Andi' - a reference to his past employment as a flight steward," adding that he worked for nearly a year for Lufthansa as a cabin attendant before being accepted for flight training.


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translated ...
Dusseldorf. It confirmed the suspicion that the co-pilot who brought the misfortune machine from German Wings crash was mentally ill. In addition, Andreas L. was sick on the day of the crash. A suicide note was not found.

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• 9:23 a.m.: Lufthansa, together with other German airlines, has announced the immediate introduction of new rules for the cockpit. It will now be a requirement for there to be two authorized people in the cockpit at all times.

'Heavily depressive'
When Mr Lubitz finished training in 2009, he was diagnosed with a serious depressive episode and went on to receive treatment for a year and a half, the German news site Bild reports.

Internal documents quoted by Bild and German broadcaster ARD say a note on Mr Lubitz's aviation authority file recommended regular psychological assessment.

Did he have "regular psychological assessment"? Were the results available to/sent to the airline?

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A German aviation official told The Associated Press that Lubitz's file at the country's Federal Aviation Office contained an "SIC" note, meaning that he needed "specific regular medical examination." Such a note could refer to either a physical or mental condition, but the official — who spoke only on condition of anonymity because he was not authorized to release the information, said the note does not specify which. [...]

German news media painted a picture of a man with a history of depression who had received psychological treatment, and who may have been set off by a falling out with his girlfriend. [...]

Lufthansa CEO Carsten Spohr said there was a "several-month" gap in Lubitz's training six years ago, but would not elaborate. Following the disruption, he said, Lubitz "not only passed all medical tests but also his flight training, all flying tests and checks."

The U.S. Federal Aviation Administration had issued Lubitz a third-class medical certificate. In order to obtain such a certificate, a pilot must be cleared of psychological problems including psychosis, bipolar disorder and personality disorder "that is severe enough to have repeatedly manifested itself by overt acts."

The certificate also means that he wasn't found to be suffering from another mental health condition that "makes the person unable to safely perform the duties or exercise the privileges" of a pilot's license.


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(CNN)Latest developments:

• 11:49 a.m.: Germanwings says it didn't receive a sick note for the day of the flight.

• 10:57 a.m.: A letter found in a waste bin in Andreas Lubitz's apartment indicated he "was declared by a medical doctor unfit to work," Dusseldorf prosecutor Christoph Kumpa said.