Brandon Scherrf pro day 7.07 3 cone.

And as much as we need to fortify the line, I hope we wait until round 2 to go Oline. I would rather have Beasley in round 1 and go guard in round 2.

Scherff will probably be the pick though.

Scherff is the best athlete among the top OL prospects. When people say he doesn't have the feet/movement to play LT, it's simply not true.

If he has worries about LT, it's more about consistency of technique, length, and ability to stick to his man.

My biggest concern is simple...his assignment makes tackles and/or assists on running plays way too often. He has the reputation as a mauler because he has a few highlights of punishing guys through the ground....but if you watch play after play and game after game...the bruiser mentality is more about his initial contact with the defender, then struggles to stick to him. Especially the guys that have NFL futures.

We're in attendance?

to play above average or better at three positions on the line and to play a solid LT. To me he'd be fine at 9. He really does remind me of Martin and I think he'd have a noticeable impact on OL play by the middle of the year.

Out of curiosity, because I honestly don't remember, what was your thoughts on Martin last year? Did you see more in him than you do in Scherff this year?

If you want the Giants to draft a physical player to establish a power running game Scherrf is the guy. Watch the attached video. He finishes his blocks as well as any collegiate player that I have seen.
Link - ( New Window )

In comment 12203620 BigBlueShock said:

Quote:

Out of curiosity, because I honestly don't remember, what was your thoughts on Martin last year? Did you see more in him than you do in Scherff this year?

Ironically....I have Scherff graded at the same exact point where I had Martin. You can say they are somewhat similar in that they played LT in college but may project better to inside in the NFL, but thats where the similarities end. They are different players.

Martin was more technically sound. Rarely would you see him make a technique based mistake. Scherff is the better athlete but he needs to clean things up.

So really...Martin is a safer prospect but I think Scherff can be the better pro over time.

If Jerry and the gang feel the value...No issues here.

Jerry likes his lineman to have quick feet and little power.

In comment 12203631 Lithium said:

Quote:

Jerry likes his lineman to have quick feet and little power.

And cue the 3/15 drop in.

If that's how they go, I'm on board.

I also saw a handful of jersey on a couple of plays

I am not suggesting that the Giants draft Scherrf, but in doing some research I have found only positives about him. As a matter of fact in watching some games I thought that he displayed excellent technique, strength, and movement skills. He can pull to either side, gets to the second level with ease, finishes his blocks. He was also a stone wall in pass protection. I never saw him bull rushed and he slides very well. In all of the games I watched he was always singled against the opposing player and never had help.

Quote:

02/17/2015 - 2015 DRAFT SCOUT PRE-COMBINE TOP 64 DRAFT PROSPECTS: 6/1. Brandon Scherff, OT, Iowa, 6-5, 320, 4.93, 1...The only thing scouts agree about on Scherff is that he is the most NFL-ready offensive lineman in the draft. The debate is whether he should use his broad-shoulders and toughness at guard, where he played as a freshman, or show his excellent technique at tackle, where he lined up on the left side the rest of his college career and was named consensus All-American and earned the Outland Trophy last season as the best college lineman. Those who believe he belongs inside are probably concerned that he doesn't have quick footwork required against the NFL's outside pass rushers, an issue not helped a broken fibula and dislocated ankle as a sophomore.

Walter Football;

Quote:

At the next level, Scherff could be one of the top guards in the league. Moving to the inside would hide his issues with speed rushers as well as his lack of length and short arms; all while making him a better pass-blocker. Scherff is an absolute beast in the ground game. He is extremely powerful and consistently blasts defensive linemen out of their gap. He can ride them around the field and rag-doll defenders. Scherff showed so much power that he would occasionally drive blockers with one arm. Scherff also is quick to fire to the second level and hit blocks, pull or lead blocks downfield. He is a devastating run-blocker who is a force in the trenches for the ground game. His raw power is extremely impressive, and he sustains his blocks through the whistle with a bullying attitude.

Link - ( New Window )

Here is what I do not understand. If he supposedly has this elite athleticism and ability to move, why does the collective NFL view him as a guard

He can do all he wants in shorts. Watching games, Martin was a better LT prospect and he was. Peat looked better and Collins looked better

Scherrf looks more like a guard than a tackle. I believe that the scouting consensus is that Scherff projects to be an all pro at guard. He is a safe pick there without risk, but there are some questions about his ability to play at a pro bowl level at tackle.

Scherrf compares very favorably to Martin and is far superior athletically.

In comment 12203640 Headhunter said:

Quote:

I also saw a handful of jersey on a couple of plays

Don't forgot slamming on players when they are on the ground . That's a flag also . But I like his nasty .

would give us the most immediate improvement to our team. We need a guy like him. Put him and Schwartz at the Guard spots and see how much our running game improves, and how much better the play of Pugh and Beatty gets.

The WRs are a luxury pick, and may actually be the right pick for the long term, but Scherff is the best fit for us in the short term unless a guy like Beasley is there and Spags has very creative plans for how to use him to improve the defense.

over a long term benefit?

.

In comment 12203687 drkenneth said:

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.

Doc, what dod you mean?

In comment 12203685 Headhunter said:

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over a long term benefit?

Well, Scherff would be a long term asset for us as well; he's likely a Snee-comparable OG. The WR we select will only be that kind of long term asset to us if we don't re-sign RR and/or Cruz doesn't come back whole. Otherwise we have nowhere to play him.

This is the make or break year. If they don't make the playoffs, then the whole team (maybe the whole organization) will get blown up.

They need to plug the biggest hole with an instant starter. That's Scherrf at LG. Next year, they can figure out if he can play tackle and if Pugh can play guard.

The only other hole that's as big is FS and it doesn't look like there is a FS ranked near #9. If there is a trade down, that opens up different possibilities.

who projects as a long term all pro is worth your teams first pick. Whether it is at tackle or guard. IMO.

determine if changes are made. They could finish 9-7 or even 10-6 and due to a tie breaker miss out. Would you make changes 9-7 and no playoff?

would prefer a playmaker on offense or defense over a Guard.. However if he is the BPA.. thats what they will pick

but they are guards drafted to be guards at 40. Taking a tackle who will play guard at 9 is a waste of passing on a game changer if he's there

Put him a T or G, I really don't care. With him and Pugh we have a lot of options and can figure it out in preseason. We can get a WR in Rd 2 or Rd 3, it is a deep draft for them too. Besides we already have OBJ, Cruz, Randle, JJ, etc.

...that he is still available with the 9th pick.

that is an amazing three-cone time, on the same level as or quicker than some of the following WR prospects:

Mario Manningham: 7.34
Randall Cobb: 7.08
Jerrell Jernigan: 7.07
Golden Tate: 7.12

And way faster than some of the recent highly regarded OL:

Joel Bitonio: 7.37
Taylor Lewan: 7.39
Zach Martin: 7.65
Jake Matthews: 7.34


And this one blows me away - a faster three cone that this burner? The guy who used to catch birds/rabbits by hand?

David Wilson: 7.09

stick him at LG and forget about it..

In comment 12203703 Headhunter said:

Quote:

but they are guards drafted to be guards at 40. Taking a tackle who will play guard at 9 is a waste of passing on a game changer if he's there

Thank you. And I still don't trust another "can't miss" o-lineman from Iowa

In comment 12203720 HomerJones45 said:

Quote:

In comment 12203703 Headhunter said: Quote: but they are guards drafted to be guards at 40. Taking a tackle who will play guard at 9 is a waste of passing on a game changer if he's there Thank you. And I still don't trust another "can't miss" o-lineman from Iowa

Im of the mindset that you dont take a guard @ Nine.. but that all depends on who is on the board..

deciding if I would prefer Scherrf or a receiver (Cooper or White) if the opportunity falls to us...
I really think this kid is an animal and brings some bad ass mentality that we've been missing from the OL. I want someone to punish the DL and give our running backs a chance!
At the same time, if Cruz misses the start of the season, or doesn't come back as the same player, it would be sweet to have a Beckham/Cooper/White tandem.
I'm torn, but I guess in a good way.

he might not make it to our pick. Wouldn't be surprised to see him not make it to us.

This is why I find it a little ridiculous when in January people say that one player or another doesn't have a chance to be there when we pick, or that another player would be drafted too high. Lots of information coming in still informing selection.

could Scherf be our future LT?

In comment 12203724 J Dot1 said:

Quote:

I really think this kid is an animal and brings some bad ass mentality that we've been missing from the OL. I want someone to punish the DL and give our running backs a chance!

That's the thing, it's not just simply about the position he plays, it's what he brings to the identity of the OL and the offense as a whole. Tom Coughlin is fond of saying that football is a tough sport played by tough guys. Scherff--and I think La'el Collins, too--can bring some much needed toughness.
p.s.-- Cooper will be long gone and I think White is boom or bust.

Is Scherrf that much better than Tomlinson or Cann who can be had in round 2? Erving should also be available. I do think Reese will add an OL in the first 2 rounds but I would prefer the 2nd.

I'm hoping for a front 7 addition with our first pick. The last 3 first round picks have been on offense. We need to add top notch talent to our defense.

I would be happy with either. Note in the highlights above not a lot of pass protection included. All run blocking, which is outstanding. Peat doesn't seem to have a lot of film on youtube, but what is there shows the type of LT the Giants have wanted for 30 years. Sherf is the kind of player the fans want, but the Giants never take. If it is between the two, we are taking Peat in my opinion.

.
animal - ( New Window )

at all..

In comment 12203724 J Dot1 said:

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deciding if I would prefer Scherrf or a receiver (Cooper or White) if the opportunity falls to us... I really think this kid is an animal and brings some bad ass mentality that we've been missing from the OL. I want someone to punish the DL and give our running backs a chance! At the same time, if Cruz misses the start of the season, or doesn't come back as the same player, it would be sweet to have a Beckham/Cooper/White tandem. I'm torn, but I guess in a good way.

Im not.. take the highest rated player.. if thats a WR.. take him.. get a guard in round 2.. People need to wake up and realize that you get starting players on the OL in round 2...

I'm taking Scherff. If they're both gone, I'm trying like crazy to trade down.

In comment 12203615 Sy'56 said:

Quote:

Scherff is the best athlete among the top OL prospects. When people say he doesn't have the feet/movement to play LT, it's simply not true. If he has worries about LT, it's more about consistency of technique, length, and ability to stick to his man. My biggest concern is simple...his assignment makes tackles and/or assists on running plays way too often. He has the reputation as a mauler because he has a few highlights of punishing guys through the ground....but if you watch play after play and game after game...the bruiser mentality is more about his initial contact with the defender, then struggles to stick to him. Especially the guys that have NFL futures.

Ok Sy, you have sold me Scherrf. I was leaning against him at #9 because of all the talk that he couldn't play LT at some point. If he has LT ability then he makes a ton of sense at #9.

In comment 12203767 Phil in LA said:

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I'm taking Scherff. If they're both gone, I'm trying like crazy to trade down.

I'll add if Cooper, White and Beasley are gone.. Take Scherff.. if they are all gone... pray we dont take Cedric Jones part 2...

In comment 12203753 Rjanyg said:

Quote:

Is Scherrf that much better than Tomlinson or Cann who can be had in round 2? Erving should also be available.

If he's not that much better than them, he won't go that much earlier. You get what you pay for. And I don't know of any draftniks who don't have Erving going in the first round.

....Scherrf!

a 1 year wonder at 9... at 15 maybe, but then I'd probably prefer Collins or Flowers and take Phillip Dorsett some time later.

In comment 12203753 Rjanyg said:

Quote:

Is Scherrf that much better than Tomlinson or Cann who can be had in round 2?

From what I have read.. Yes.. He is considered by most to be the best OL in the draft..

Most people seem to rank Scherrf in the top 15 players in the draft.. Cann and Tomlinson rank around 45-55

you draft a stud olineman like Scherff and focus fortifying the Oline, and you won't need any top WR prospect from the draft. Having a great Oline will make everything better..

In comment 12203760 J Dot1 said:

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. animal - ( New Window )

I don't usually care about these youtube things because they are just PR crap. To get the real idea you need to watch all his games, etc. However boy does he look athletic in this video. I understand its a highlight reel, and doesn't contain any bad plays, but I love the way he gets out in front of the RB.

If he did that at the combine it would mean much more than at his pro day. The guy who runs 4.5 at the combine runs 4.4+ at his pro day. Sure if they complete the combine workout then want to improve times I'm fine with that but show me what you've got on the big stage not the back stage.

In our offense. He can definitely pull and get to the second level quick and with power. Our running game could really take off this year! Would love the pick our oline needs more nasty.

In comment 12203693 Ivan15 said:

Quote:

This is the make or break year. If they don't make the playoffs, then the whole team (maybe the whole organization) will get blown up. They need to plug the biggest hole with an instant starter. That's Scherrf at LG. Next year, they can figure out if he can play tackle and if Pugh can play guard.

I doubt very much that anything is getting blown up. Making the playoffs is a goal, but what will actually indicate that the Giants are on the right path is just how competitive they are.

Making it to 9-7 this year will be considered to be a significant accomplishment and will set the tone for the future. Barring another team-wide injury bug, I can see 8-8 or 9-7, with some losses being hard-fought contests against good teams.

If they continue to roll over when playing good teams, then things won't look too good. By taking a lesser player at 9 because of need, you virtually assure this sort of performance into the future.

Of the OL.

Is he as good a prospect as J. Cooper, C. Warmack, D. Decastro, Z. Martin

All these guys were thought to be as good or better prospects. Cooper was the highest drafted G in the last 15 years and does not play.

You draft an interior guy at 9 he needs to top 3 or 4 at his position. A good player is not enough - because you can find that all over

Cooper
Fowler/Beasley
Scherff

With Leonard Williams, two QB's, Kevin White and Danny Shelton there is your Top 9. Gregory rounded out the Top 10 but the knucklehead will drop now.

1) cooper
2) Scherff

3) get the hell out of the #9 spot. And I'm
No to White also.

He appears to be Robert gallery 2.0. I would def pass on him and take a lineman round 2

We don't need a wr in the first rd. I would love Eli to have 8 seconds to scan the field like Romo.

In comment 12203917 charlito said:

Quote:

I would love Eli to have 8 seconds to scan the field like Romo.

That would not be what the offensive coordinator wants, however.

He would like Eli to have a clean pocket and the ability to step up and deliver the ball.

In comment 12203921 Torrag said:

Quote:

He would like Eli to have a clean pocket and the ability to step up and deliver the ball.

I agree, but I don't think they were lacking for that as much as it's made out to be on here. Richburg and Schwartz on the interior of the line goes a long way toward addressing that.

so we'll disagree completely. The pocket was a mess especially up the middle. Walton and Jerry were either turnstiles or collapsed. Eli was hurried, harassed and hit consistently. It's a good thing Macs scheme gets the ball out or Eli would have been killed.

but I'll be a bit surprised if they pick him at #9, it would be very unlike the regime to go OL that high unless they feel he could play LT.

But he would be my choice at 9 unquestionably. If you ask me if I'd rather have a play maker the answer is yes, and that's exactly why I pick Scherrf at 9. He is a play maker. On this team that struggles to make plays due to the serious problems on our o-line Scherrf would go a long way in helping us to make plenty of plays! Heck, he may even give us a running game again. Imagine that. It's been so long since we had a running game I think some of us have forgotten how nice that would be.

But again, it would be just our luck that he'll be gone before we pick.

Did you assess players back in 2004? I ask because whenever I hear tons of good things about an O-linemen I think about Rob Gallery. Just wondering if you see any comparables between Gallery and Sherff.

In comment 12203908 Tuckrule said:

Quote:

He appears to be Robert gallery 2.0. I would def pass on him and take a lineman round 2

Didn't see this before I posted. I am not saying I don't want him because to me he looks really good. But I am also starting to get the Gallery vibe.

I keep coming back to the same unnerving thought
Ivan15 : 3/25/2015 9:55 pm : link : reply
This is the make or break year. If they don't make the playoffs, then the whole team (maybe the whole organization) will get blown up.


This is another one of those 8-8, +/-1, seasons....
I expect this offense to score......I don't expect this defense to be much better than last year, because over the last 3 seasons we have lost playerss, who have been replaced with guys, who are not as good as those, when they were at their peak......Spags will be under a lot of pressure to turn this around, and while it took Spags 3 games to get this defense on track, the first time, I think this time, it will take a whole season and then some, to get on track....

The Giants did not make big free agent moves, I think, because next year is when they can go after impact players, and if we can have a good draft to build on, 2016 looks like the season the Giants are aiming for....and I think 2016 will be TC's last hurrah...

Every prospect is evaluated on his own merits. You can compare him to Zack Martin or Robert Gallery or Tony the Tiger.

Iowa has as much success sending offensive linemen to the NFL as any NCAA program. You want to draft them because they are well prepared both technically and physically. Only BBI could turn this into a negative.

Gallery was a very good OG but was mis-evaluated as an OT. Reiff and Bulaga were both drafted #23. Reiff has played well and Bulaga has been serviceable. Eric Steinbach was taken #33 overall and had a very good career. Marshall Yanda has been a productive 3rd round pick for the Ravens. Kyle Calloway was been a 7th round find for the Bills.

They need a tough, mean spirited lineman for once, who could stabilize an area of need. Then they can watch him leave after his rookie contract expires.

In comment 12204007 Lithium said:

Quote:

They need a tough, mean spirited lineman for once, who could stabilize an area of need. Then they can watch him leave after his rookie contract expires.

Can someone ban the troll?

He hasn't quite crossed the ban line yet. Patience it is coming.

In comment 12203656 stretch234 said:

Quote:

(1) Here is what I do not understand. If he supposedly has this elite athleticism and ability to move, why does the collective NFL view him as a guard He can do all he wants in shorts. Watching games, Martin was a better LT prospect and he was. Peat looked better and Collins looked better (2) Is he as good a prospect as J. Cooper, C. Warmack, D. Decastro, Z. Martin All these guys were thought to be as good or better prospects. Cooper was the highest drafted G in the last 15 years and does not play. You draft an interior guy at 9 he needs to top 3 or 4 at his position. A good player is not enough - because you can find that all over

Two good posts my stretch234 IMO

1. Why is he not viewed as a tackle first? For all we know, the real experts do view him as a tackle. If not, what is he? A real athletic Guard who can pull better than others? I would think at his size and ability to move he would be viewed as a tackle. Meanwhile, Lael Collins looked pretty good yet kinda surprised he weighed in at only 305lbs.

2. Tough call as DeCastro was injured and Martin was really solid as a rookie surrounded by good talent. Meanwhile, Warmack was supposedly all-world yet isn't exactly dominating at the POA while Cooper can't even get on the field. Is it the Iowa uniform which reminds some of us Gallery?

Can't miss on this #9 pick and the team is more desperate for OL than WR. Meanwhile, back at the safety position (yikes, so many holes).

if you did you would know that Eli attempted 601 passes and was sacked 14 times. So he was sacked 1 out of every 40 times he dropped back, So you are saying that he got hit hit often attempting to pass? If so getting hit and passing and only 14 interceptions is pretty awesome. Now if Eli was getting killed as often as you say, there were a lot of roughing the passer calls that were not made. But why let facts get in the way of a good story

Tony Boselli with the 2nd pick in the 95 draft for the Jaguars, and Snee in the second round as well. So he believes in taking TOP OL early. Reese and Mara may see it differently. Peat has the measurables and brains but does he have the desire to use them.

good questions.

If you watched the games you should know Eli was under duress consistently last season. What else needs to be said. There is legitimate contact with QB's that doesn't result in flags all the time. His pocket wasn't clean, he was regularly moved 'off his spot' and forced to reset, wasn't allowed to 'step up' and deliver the ball...all a function of our awful play from guard to guard on the interior. We converted a measley 43% on 3rd downs. This doesn't address their failure in the running game and short yardage where they were even worse.

In comment 12203934 Torrag said:

Quote:

so we'll disagree completely. The pocket was a mess especially up the middle. Walton and Jerry were either turnstiles or collapsed. Eli was hurried, harassed and hit consistently. It's a good thing Macs scheme gets the ball out or Eli would have been killed.

Walton isn't here anymore. Unless you're projecting that Richburg is going to be just as bad. And the reason Jerry was playing is because Schwartz was injured and not playing.

I'll feel better when I know Jerry or Jones aren't starting and Schwartz proves he can stay on the field for a change. Fair enough?

I also remember him standing back there looking at his 2nd and 3rd options on a lot of throws. The pass blocking was not the issue

Moreover, the team doesn't even know what Jones is.

He could be anything from a camp washout to a surprise find.

Pass blocking was bad and was covered up by Macs scheme.

It's been putrid for years now. I'm sure he can inject some life and power at the point of attack. Lord knows John Jerry can't do it.

fair enough and it's how it should be, agreeing to disagree

The point is we still don't have a starting LG and the Giants were concerned enough about Schwartz injury they forced him into a pay for play contract re-structure. I'll feel more comfortable if we draft #9 or #40. Until then I don't consider this unit upgraded.

should read.

Jordan Raanan & #8207;@JordanRaanan 2m2 minutes ago
Coughlin on offensive line: 'we're trying to improve ... Ways to go' #Giants

(gee, maybe he does).

...and optimistic Schwartz will be healthy. I don't understand some of 'the spin' recently on Jerry here on BBI. When has this guy ever been an effective player. I see the inconsistent label and frankly noone can suck all the time. He's still awful. More needs to be done obviously.

He played really well in some games, and dreadfully in others. I believe they'll find a starting OG or RT in this draft's first three rounds, a player good enough to keep Jerry planted on the bench or waived.

I do know he had a knee injury in OTA's last year. I would assume we will get a better idea this summer

year until circumstances forced him into the lineup.

His skillset is that of a backup. He's okay at one thing and has glaring flaws at another.

Just as you can infer that they're concerned about Schwartz, they were also convinced enough last season that he represented a significant upgrade and deserved a pretty healthy contract.

There are some positions in this draft deep enough to feel confident you can acquire a starter in Round 3. WR and RB certainly. DT is quite deep for a change imo. I don't see the depth of talent along the OL in this class to be comfortable waiting that long. It's thin at that top of the 3rd area. You're looking at Ali Marpet projected in that range with not much more available and no guarantee he'll be there. The smart decision is to solidify what is probably the biggest need on this team by pick #40 imo.

Roger that, but I wouldn't reach too big at #40 (eg, Marpet). Cann or one of those monsters works.

I really wonder what NYG thinks of Peat and Scherff at #9 ... one of them at #9, DL at #40, WR at #74 works for me.

the NFL compiles stats which are available on-line.

Giants were tied for 9th in number of passes attempted

Giants were 10th in both sacks (as in 10th fewest) and 10th in QB hits allowed (as in 10th fewest).

There seems to be little correlation between hits and sacks. Brady was hit 9 more times than Eli and yet was sacked 4 fewer times. Luck was hit over 100 times and yet sacked only 29 (Luck is a frigging moose). Romo was sacked over half the time he was hit. He was sacked 30 times despite throwing far fewer passes and having a beast running game.

One thing is for certain: the BBI meme about Eli being under constant seige is false.

Let's put another BBI meme to rest also. Our running problems were to the right side, not the left. We were middle of the pack getting first downs with 2 yards or less to go running left. We were near the bottom in the same stat running right. The Pugh-Jerry combination struggled. Make of that what you will.
If you are interested - ( New Window )

to draft someone with hamstring probs.

Those 'stats' are useless without context. Which in this case is time to release. Under Macs system Eli got the ball out as quickly as anyone in the league. Given the pressure he faced maybe quicker than anyone else. It also doesn't account for the QB's ability to 'slip' pressure, avoid hits and maneuver around the pocket under duress. A skill at which Eli is extremely under rated imo.

Stats are useful but nothing tells the story like your own two eyes. So much for debunking BBI memes.

In comment 12203836 Simms11 said:

Quote:

In our offense. He can definitely pull and get to the second level quick and with power. Our running game could really take off this year! Would love the pick our oline needs more nasty.

Funny, don't know why but that rant by the coach, of Coastal Carolina I think, about having dogs not cats came to mind with your "more nasty" comment.

They were crap run blocking but they sure weren't what you'd call good at either imo. The group needs more talent and more toughness. is that really debatable? Does it matter how bad they were at one of the other? Both can stand significant improvement.

In comment 12203877 Torrag said:

Quote:

Cooper Fowler/Beasley Scherff With Leonard Williams, two QB's, Kevin White and Danny Shelton there is your Top 9. Gregory rounded out the Top 10 but the knucklehead will drop now.

Hard to disagree. Would replace Gregory with Dupree; I think someone will pick him before 9.


So imo if you look at the next group, Scherff could very well end up being the player left with the highest grade.

Other than OL next group - Gregory(weight & dope), Parker(has a foot), Collins(coverage ability?), Ray?, or Goldman / Brown?

First the running game was non-existent. Second, we didn't get many sacks because of Eli's experience and also the quick passes and 3-step drops. Now the problem is that the defenses know this and just cover short, so no one is open and we can't move the ball. We're left with going deep, and the D knows they can get their with only their front 4. This means 7 in pass coverage. This is why we can't move the ball against any defense in the top half of the league. If we could run, or pass protect for the 5 and 7 foot drops (so longer passes), we could do better. Like in 2011 our running game sucked, but we could protect Eli know matter what pass patterns were called.

We need to upgrade the line, its not just about sacks its about the functioning of the offense. If the defense knows we can't run or throw deep because their front 4 is dominating, it makes it very easy on the defense to just cover the short slants and outs.

in total Net Yardage.How?

The first couple games Eli got hit a decent amount and in the middle of the season (particularly the Eagle game) he got crushed. There were stretches in between (HOU for example) where the line was excellent vs. solid competition. They still need a talent infusion, but I don't agree with anyone who thinks they need an overall. Beatty and Pugh have shown they can be solid players. Richburg hopefully develops and Schwartz hopefull stays healthy. 1 elite player and durable anchor player (like Scherff) could go a long way towards rounding out the unit.

if they continue to ignore what everybody else posts.

6-10 and the Coach has been wanting the organization to address the OL for years. Why? B/c it's not the issue? My gosh people lol

It is not about them not addressing the OL. It is about committing the 9th pick in the draft for a position that has been drafted that high 1 time in the last 15 years.

A position in which players are found all throughout the draft.

This For a player who is not as good a prospect as last years top G picked later and a guy compared to R. Reiff or Bulaga. I can find that plenty of places other than 9

Botonio last year played every bit as well as Martin and was drafted 19 picks later

There is nothing wrong if they got an OG in the 2nd rd

I addressed your posts a bit earlier. Scroll up and you will see I agree.

In comment 12204294 Giants2012 said:

Quote:

if they continue to ignore what everybody else posts. 6-10 and the Coach has been wanting the organization to address the OL for years. Why? B/c it's not the issue? My gosh people lol

Actually, the coach was pleading for defensive help. I agree. It's the "O-line Uber Alles" people that aren't listening.

In comment 12204242 Torrag said:

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Those 'stats' are useless without context. Which in this case is time to release. Under Macs system Eli got the ball out as quickly as anyone in the league. Given the pressure he faced maybe quicker than anyone else. It also doesn't account for the QB's ability to 'slip' pressure, avoid hits and maneuver around the pocket under duress. A skill at which Eli is extremely under rated imo. Stats are useful but nothing tells the story like your own two eyes. So much for debunking BBI memes.

As though there was nothing like confirmation bias in your viewing or your viewing habits broad enough to pay close attention to other teams. All you have presented is underlying assumptions on your part concerning getting the ball out quickly and Manning's ability to maneuver.

To your substantive points, such as they are, one would expect that teams that get the ball out quickly would be hit and sacked less and the same for teams with manuevering qb's. Such is not the case. Wilson and Kaepernik were both sacked and hit more than Manning. Brady, the king of the quick pass, was hit more albeit sacked 4 less times, and Rodgers, from the mother of this offense, was hit 9 less times but sacked more.

Assumptions and confirmation bias only support a meme, not fact. Headhunter is correct.

In comment 12204341 stretch234 said:

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It is not about them not addressing the OL. It is about committing the 9th pick in the draft for a position that has been drafted that high 1 time in the last 15 years. A position in which players are found all throughout the draft. This For a player who is not as good a prospect as last years top G picked later and a guy compared to R. Reiff or Bulaga. I can find that plenty of places other than 9 Botonio last year played every bit as well as Martin and was drafted 19 picks later There is nothing wrong if they got an OG in the 2nd rd

I agree with everything you've said here re: OGs in the draft. When Cooper was taken that high, I was quite frankly shocked because for me, the gold standard for OGs was Alan Faneca out of LSU. He was head and shoulders the best OG in the draft that year and one of the best the league ever saw and he went 24th to Pittsburgh. When Cooper went 7th and Warmack 10th, it went against draft history and trends completely.

To further your case, the Cards got Cooper at 7 and Titans got Warmack at 10. Larry Warford from Kentucky went 65th, and I'd take him over either of those two any day. Both teams reached badly, granted it was a pretty poor draft but if re-done guys like Jon Hankins, LeVeon Bell, Warford, Keenan Allen would have gone far higher and a bust like Cooper and reach like Warmack would have gone where they should have, between 24-70.

We got Chris Snee, who we took at 34 and he anchored the right side of this OL for almost 10 years. If you view Scherff as an OG only you pass on him at 9, period.

That's where I disagree on Scherff, I think he has elite LT ability in the NFL. He can step in at RT immediately and slide Pugh inside to RG with Schwartz to LG and suddenly we have a pretty good OL. So I agree with your premise, but I think Scherff compares VERY favorably to someone who went 9th overall in 2011 and some had questions about his NFL position. He is now the best LT in the NFL and was a great value at 9 overall.

That man is of course Tyron Smith, who also went 9th and has very similar Ht/Wt and AA numbers to Scherff. If you think Scherff will play LT eventually and have that ability you nab him there. Smith went higher than a lot of folks projected him to, but the Cowboys were convinced he'd be the LT of the future with his size, power and athleticism and they were right. Anyone thinking Scherff can't man LT is just not watching close enough. The big knock as we saw with T-Rex will be arm length and no doubt Smith's reach and hand size set him apart but look at their numbers side by side, go watch some tape of Scherff and you'll see a stubby armed Tyron Smith who is a little bit better of an athlete. I put their pro day and combine numbers side by side, one is a Pro Bowl fixture at LT and one supposedly can't handle those duties and has to move OG. I disagree strongly and think Scherff should be the guy at 9 and he likely starts at RT day one and is the heir apparent to Beatty at LT.

In comment 12204394 HomerJones45 said:

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In comment 12204294 Giants2012 said: Quote: if they continue to ignore what everybody else posts. 6-10 and the Coach has been wanting the organization to address the OL for years. Why? B/c it's not the issue? My gosh people lol Actually, the coach was pleading for defensive help. I agree. It's the "O-line Uber Alles" people that aren't listening.

Actually it was the entire LOS considering he said how about "running the football and stopping the run" if you want to be more specific. Perhaps you could find a link to the audio for your Uber Allies

Let's not paint the picture that poor old tom c is stuck in his dark office powerless while big bad bully jerry reese just sets him up for failure.

I hope you're on target on Scherff.

What do you think of Peat?

but your last post was the biggest steaming pile I've read on BBI in some time...and that's saying a lot.

I guess my fear is that they are drafting Eric Moore all over again - a T in college who could not play T in the NFL and was an OK guard

In comment 12204498 Ten Ton Hammer said:

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Let's not paint the picture that poor old tom c is stuck in his dark office powerless while big bad bully jerry reese just sets him up for failure.

Thank you. People act like Tom just shows up with his whistle on Sundays.

I'm squarely in the "our OL Sucks" camp with the 9th pick you want a can't miss guy with great game tape and measurables.None of the guards in this draft fit that bill. Second round,...sure.

I think he has an especially keen eye for scouting receivers. His teams historically have excellent production from the position. He was the Giants receivers coach going back to Big Bills tenure.

What I wonder about is how much picks like Barden and Jernigan were approved by TC, or did he defer to the scouts and a consensus, perhaps.

My point being, those two didn't really fit the type of demonstrated talent that sees the football field on Sundays, and yet were picked anyway.

There is more projection due to level of comp and therefore more inherent risk. I guess we'll never know who 'banged the table' for these guys in the War Room. We do know these things start with the scouts.

In comment 12204547 JonC said:

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I hope you're on target on Scherff. What do you think of Peat?

Eh, he's tall, athletic, good feet. We have one of those already. I really think what this OL needs is an identity and some nastiness. I think Pugh is tough enough, Richburg certainly seems to be cut from the Snee/Seubert not taking any crap mold but Schwartz and Beatty? Ehh..I think if you add Scherff and plug him in at RT and Pugh slides inside you've upgraded at two spots and gotten yourself a LT replacement for when Beatty decides he's tired of playing well.

Peat is one of those triangle guys, he's got all the numbers you look for but he's not going to grab anyone by the neck (i realize that's highly illegal) and add any fuel to our OL. Snee was a brawler, so was Seubert, O'Hara and McKenzie, and Diehl for that matter for as quiet as he seemed. Peat fits the OL mold for Reese if you use Beatty and Brewer as the measuring sticks for OT. Great tape, good in shorts, tall, long arms, etc...I just don't like soft OL and Peat strikes me that way a bit. Not soft but just not with that extra nasty we really need.

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In comment 12204498 Ten Ton Hammer said:

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Let's not paint the picture that poor old tom c is stuck in his dark office powerless while big bad bully jerry reese just sets him up for failure.

You think if Coughlin had his way the LOS would look like this? Not to mention, you still think Reese makes the picks? Hello?

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keep trying Hammer

but that would go directly against how the Giants have said they do business.

I couldn't agree more Joey in VA. Well said

In comment 12204827 Ten Ton Hammer said:

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but that would go directly against how the Giants have said they do business.

I've been saying that forever TTH. Can't just blame Ross. Reese is the BOSS.

great discussion on this thread. Very informative and interesting and what makes BBI the best out here.

In comment 12204827 Ten Ton Hammer said:

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but that would go directly against how the Giants have said they do business.

Wrong again

Despite all the evidence, testimonies, videos, audio, "Finding Giants" etc you still don't know how the Giants draft? Really?

It would be educational to many.

If you don't know it by now, you don't pay attention to this team.

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In comment 12204548 Torrag said:

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but your last post was the biggest steaming pile I've read on BBI in some time...and that's saying a lot.

Yuk yuk, yuk you are such a wit.

BUT, In watching some clips today of the top tier OL guys, my opinion is shifting a bit. I'm sold on Scherff as a tough guy, probably can play RT, likely LT but at what level?

Peat actually looks like he can add some weight in his upper body, he's a bit Boothe-ish down below but that makes him pretty hard to unseat in pass protection. He's got some pop downfield which may be intriguing. I need to watch more to really form a solid opinion but he's winning me over.

The one guy who surprised me is La'el Collins from LSU. He looks on the smallish side for a LT but he has the ability to lock on to a defender pretty well, no one seems to get away once he gets his hands on them.

as far as Collins vs. Scherff, what do you think?

I'd be very happy with either of these 2 at #9, I don't think Collins gets enough love as a Top 10 prospect. A guy who is at his best at G/RT, but could play LT down the line.

What I really like about Scherff (and Collins) is how they both have a good balance of power and finesse to their games. They're both nasty and physical but also have really nimble feet. The Giants love guys like that who can get to the second level and pull.

than Scherff. Just a hunch.

Like I said in a previous post, Scherff is a bigger, stronger, nastier and more athletic version of Chris Snee and he can play tackle. He was a 290 lb QB in high school who played 5 sports. His Pro Day results corroborate what type of athlete he is.
Has anyone given any consideration to the possibility that Reese continually stating that he would select a playmaker before an offensive lineman (while Coughlin is calling for reinforcements to both lines with John Mara listening in) might just be a smoke screen so that the WRs will be taken before #9 and Reese will be able to draft Scherff? In this draft, the Giants can get a WR who could contribute this year in the 3rd or 4th round. They don't have to (and shouldn't) go WR in Rd 1 in back to back years. If the offensive line isn't fixed, it won't make any difference who they are throwing to. Draft Scherff and the line is fixed. Then move on to the defense and a WR.
The projection then might look like this:
1. Brandon Scherff OT Iowa
2. Preston Smith DE Mississippi State
3. Damarious Randall FS Arizona State
4. Chris Conley WR Georgia
5. Jake Ryan LB Michigan
6. Erick Dargan SS Oregon
7. Damian Swann CB Georgia
7. Damian Wilson LB Minnesota