for display only
Big Blue Interactive The Corner Forum  
Back to the Corner

Archived Thread

2015 NFL Draft Preview - RB

Sy'56 : 3/26/2015 7:22 am
*Below are my published, abbreviated reports via Ourlads Scouting Services, LLC

CURRENT RBs ON THE NYG ROSTER

Shane Vereen – 25 years old – Signed through 2017

Rashad Jennings – 29 years old – Signed through 2017

Andre Williams – 22 Years old – Signed through 2017

Michael Cox – 26 Years old – Signed through 2016

Peyton Hillis – 29 Years old – Signed through 2015

Orleans Darkwa – 23 Years Old – Signed through 2015

Chris Ogbonnaya – 28 Years Old – Signed through 2015

Henry Hynoski – 26 Years Old – Signed through 2016

Nikita Whitlock – 23 Years Old – Signed through 2016


WHERE THEY STAND

From both numbers and roles perspectives, NYG does not have any need for an additional running back on the roster. Vereen is this year’s “big” free agent signing and I think he will perform well in a pass catching role. He has more talent than any other RB on that list and there is plenty of youth to him. Jennings is likely the every down back that will receive the majority of the carries barring injury. He is solid between the tackles. Williams is another inside bruiser with limited ability in space. He won’t ever be a big time pass catcher. He is an easy guy to like but I can’t say he impressed beyond the preseason in his rookie year. He will get his fair share of carries. Cox has been given more than enough opportunity and he hasn’t capitalized, he won’t be around much longer. Hillis is a nice guy to have around in case of injury, as he could fill in a FB if need be. Darkwa, Ogonnaya, and Whitlock are guys that are here for training camp purposes and nothing more. Hynoski is an above average fullback but is still limited in what he can offer.

They are in good but not great standing. The committee approach is probably the safest way to go because of the amount of injuries RBs suffer on a yearly basis. If one of these guys goes down, there is enough depth without a huge drop off in talent to still be okay.

TOP 10 GRADES AND ANALYSIS

1 – Todd Gurley – Georgia – 6’1/222 – 83

Pro Upside Comparison: Adrian Peterson/MIN

Strong Points: Elite blend of size, speed, agility, and power. Thick lower body that creates tremendous drive and power. Fires out of a cannon upon contact with the ball. Has that burst from a dead stop position to top end speed. Breaks tackles consistently and is almost always falling forward to pick up the extra few yards. Can drag tacklers with his strength but also makes them miss with late movement. Agile and quick when changing direction. Runs with great lean and a low pad level. Aware of where and when he plants his feet in relation to where the bodies are around him. Quality blocker and receiver out of the backfield, a true three down back.

Weak Points: Coming off a torn ACL. Played through a lot of minor injuries prior to the knee. Drags plays out with his aggressive style and leaves himself prone to extra hits. Pad level is inconsistent, exposes too much of his body and legs to defenders. Inconsistent receiving mechanics, will body catch the ball.

Summary: Junior entry. Bell cow back that doesn’t need to be taken off the field in any situation. Was suspended and injured in 2014, shortening his quest for the Heisman Trophy. Gurley has the size and movement ability to be a dominant three down back in the NFL. He can pick up the tough yards between the tackles but also break free in to open space and run away from defenders. Very smart running back that is aware of the defense and game situations. If he can return to full strength after tearing his ACL, Gurley can be an elite back in the NFL. All the tools are there.


*Gurley would have been a top 4 player in this draft class if it weren’t for the torn ACL. He fits on the NYG roster if he falls to the 2nd round pick. RB may not be a need but I don’t think this kind of player can be passed on if he is there unless there is another guy there at or very near his grade.

2 – Jay Ajayi – Boise State – 6’0/221 – 82

Pro Upside Comparison – Marshawn Lynch/SEA

Strong Points: Relentless runner that consistently breaks tackles and falls forward. Well put-together frame that carries a dense 222 pounds. Has plenty of lower body wiggle and flexibility. Can make the late movement to miss the meat of a hit and finagle his way in to space. Can see the action in front of and around him at the same time, making quick decisions and reactions. Shows elite balance in traffic, constantly able to change his path with a power presence. Excels between the tackles with his blend of movement ability and strength. Willing and able blocker. Will deliver a pop to the defender and mirror him. Reliable pass catcher on the move, natural to see it in and tuck the ball. Three down ability and skills.

Weak Points: Struggles to reach the edge against fast defenses. Will take too long to make decisions. Tries too often to cut his way out of traffic rather than putting his head down and gaining positive yards. Runs sloppy routes of the backfield. Has had issues with ball security after initial contact with defenders.

Summary: Fourth year junior entry. Has made several All American teams for his dominant performance this season. Finished second in the nation with 28 rushing touchdowns in 2014. Ajayi brings everything to the table that the NFL wants out of a running back. He has size and open field speed to runaway from defenders, but also shows a quick change of direction and smooth agility in traffic. Ajayi can break tackles several ways, consistently gaining extra yards. He is a true three down back that could be starting in the NFL his rookie season if the situation presented itself.


*Even though he has a close grade to the injured Gurley, the urgency to take him if he is there in round 2 isn’t as high. He would add another Jennings/Williams type runner to the backfield. I like this kid a lot though. If you want toughness in your backfield, you want this guy.

3 – Duke Johnson – Miami - 5’9/207 – 82

Pro Upside Comparison: LeSean McCoy/BUF

Strong Points: Complete back with the tools and skill set to play every down. Jitter-bug type quickness in a phone booth. Can be hard for a defender to touch, let alone tackle. Elite burst and acceleration, can go 0-60 in just a few steps. Always has his feet under him, good balance and body control. Can see what’s going on around him in space. Sets defenders up to whiff as they are closing in on him. Easy pass catcher with strong hands. Can make the acrobatic catch. Sees the ball in and can get going right away. Physical blocker that delivers a pop. Takes pride in protecting the quarterback..

Weak Points: Not a big back. Played at over 200 pounds for the first time in 2014. May not have the frame to take a lot of hits in the NFL. Vision in traffic as he approaches the line of scrimmage is delayed. Will try too hard to dance around defenders trying to break off a big run instead of moving north and getting the sure yards. Season ending ankle injury in the 9th game of 2013.

Summary: Junior entry. Former elite high school recruit delivered right away as a freshman on 2012 as a kick returner. His performance as a running back started to take off in 2013 before a season ending ankle injury. Johnson added weight and speed prior to 2014 and it paid huge dividends. He showed that he could handle every down duty with his versatile tools and skill set. He is an elusive ball carrier that can break off the big runs once he gets in to space. Just as important, his ability as a receiver and pass blocker are both NFL-ready from a physical standpoint. If he can continue to add strength while maintaining his ability to move, Johnson can be a back that never needs to come off the field.


*Like I said with Ajayi, Johnson grades out close to the injured Gurley and as much as I like his ability to catch the ball, I’m not sure he can warrant a 2nd round pick. If size concerns bump him down to round 3 however, I bring this kid here in a heartbeat and let him play his way in to the rotation while adding dynamic KR/PR ability.

4 – Melvin Gordon – Wisconsin – 6’1/215 – 81

Pro Upside Comparison – Jamaal Charles/KC

Strong Points: Tight skinned, well developed back that doesn’t need to come off the field in any situation. Top tier vision and instincts. Can see things around him that most backs cannot. Can create something out of nothing. Exceptional when running to the outside. Consistently makes guys miss in space. Will not hesitate to lower his shoulder and force the pile to move north. Can follow blockers through space and sneak through lanes. Has the extra gear in space to runaway from defenders. Can maintain his agility and body control while moving at full speed. High effort blocker that makes an impact. Tries hard and produces when it comes to protecting the quarterback. Easy hands catcher when he had the opportunity.

Weak Points: Will run with a high pad level when approaching the line of scrimmage. Will try to get cute too often rather than getting the sure yards. Lacks the lower body girth that most want out of an every down back. Had a fumbling issue late in 2014.

Summary: Junior entry. Doak Walker Award winner. His 7.79 yards per carry over his career is an all time record. Gordon’s statistical accolades have piled up over his career. His blend of size and speed to go with his instincts and vision have helped mold him in to a top tier talent. He can do everything a team wants out of a running back; rush, receive, and block. In an era where finding true three down backs can be difficult, the demand for Gordon will be high. He is a young kid that loves the game and has shown a tremendous work ethic during offseasons. While his body type and running style may not be ideal, his production and versatile game cannot be overlooked. This is an extremely high ceiling type player.


*This is a back that I would be slightly afraid to draft, but just as afraid to see a division rival draft. I don’t see NFL-type dominance here when it comes to his style of play but his talent cannot be denied. If the toughness is there and he can stay healthy, he has as much upside as any RB in this class.

5 – Tevin Coleman – Indiana – 5’11/206 – 80

Pro Upside Comparison – DeMarco Murray/PHI

Strong Points: Strong between the tackles, fast in the open field. Shows the power and leg drive to push tacklers back, consistently falling forward. Several big runs displaying the ability to run away from defensive backs. Reaches the line of scrimmage quickly, showing the burst to reach top speed with just a few steps. Cutback runner that shows good vision and the explosion to get through the open crease. Quality hands as a receiver with a smooth catching motion. Looks the ball in and tucks it before running upfield.

Weak Points: Upright running style that leaves his legs almost completely exposed. Suffered an ankle injury that forced him to miss three games in 2013. Does not have the late wiggle to miss contact from defenders, takes a lot of hits. Can be a better blocker in blitz pickup.

Summary: Junior entry. Finished as the number two overall rusher in 2014 with 2,036 yards, finishing behind only Heisman hopeful Melvin Gordon. Only the 18th player in history to breach the 2,000 yard mark and he did so with very little help around him. His record setting 2014 season includes a 300+ yard game against Rutgers. Coleman has ideal size and speed for the position. At his best in a north/south type running scheme where he can use his downhill speed and power. Some of the finer, more detailed aspects to the position need to be worked on. His routes out of the backfield, pass blocking technique, and ball security are raw around the edges. However when it comes to talent and big play ability, Coleman has the potential to be a star at the next level.


*Coleman wasn’t getting the attention he deserved throughout the season. He is big and physical but also shows elite ability to explode out of a cannon and run away from defenders. He can likely carry more weight on his frame without losing speed. I wish he ran with a more consistent pad level and would show more concentration and awareness. I wouldn’t be surprised one bit to see him out-shine every other RB in this class.

6 – David Cobb – Minnesota – 5’11/229 – 79

Pro Upside Comparison – Frank Gore/IND

Strong Points: Thick from the bottom up. Carries his weight behind his pads when approaching the action. Has the short area burst and quickness to accelerate through the running lanes with a short shelf life. Decisive and confident in his approach. Quick vision and reaction. Will consistently gain yards after contact, tough ball carrier for a lone defender to bring down. Can make himself low and slippery. Elite balance that can allow him to twist and turn his body on the move without losing much speed.

Weak Points: Lacks the explosive element to his game. Struggles to run away from defenders in the open field. Tight hipped and won’t move with fluidity in space. Doesn’t make defenders miss, will take a lot of contact. Doesn’t have presence or power as a blocker. Limited receiving ability and skills.

Summary: Fourth year senior that was a non-factor until 2013. Led the Gophers in rushing two straight seasons, including his school-record 1,626 yards in 2014. Cobb won’t wow anyone in workouts or on the highlight reel. He doesn’t have the long speed and he doesn’t shake tacklers out of their cleats in space. However Cobb can run between the tackles with quick vision and reaction along with above average power and force. Cobb is quick and efficient in short space. Keep him between the tackles and he can really produce. He isn’t an every down back and he may be limited, but put Cobb in the game when you need tough yards and he will earn them.


*I’ve been higher on Cobb than most of what I see out there. There are things about his game that will turn people off. He isn’t a superb athlete in space and his movement in traffic could be viewed as average. He lacks the “sexy” that a lot of people want out of a RB but plain and simple, I think he’ll be a gamer that can be relied on to get tough yards and keep chains moving. He is smarter and more aware than a lot of backs that have superior physical ability.

7 – David Johnson – 6’1/225 - Northern Iowa – 78

Pro Upside Comparison: Rashad Jennings/NYG

Strong Points: Quick off the snap, can eat up a 10 yard window in a blink. Natural feel with the ball in his hands, runs with good awareness and vision. Shows balance and body control in traffic. Can change direction with ease. Elite ball skills as a receiver. Can reach for the ball away from his body on the move. Has the speed to run away from defenders in space. Aggressive, physical presence as a ball carrier and blocker. Plenty of yards after contact.

Weak Points: Runs with a high pad level. Lacks the lower body thickness to take the amount of hits he will surely encounter with his height and running style. Will take a lot of extra hits. Doesn’t always fall forward, doesn’t drive his legs to move the pile inside.

Summary: Fifth year senior. Rushed for over 1,000 yards three straight seasons and leaves Northern Iowa with almost every school rushing record. He also caught 141 passes. Johnson is an upright runner with good speed and receiving ability. He doesn’t show the quick twitch and reaction between the tackles, but he has a high ceiling considering his tool set and ability to change direction with balance. His future may reside as a third down back and return specialist with the upside to be much more.


*Johnson is one of those guys I wish never got to play at the Senior Bowl because I had him on my radar before then. He performed well there and then all of the sudden everyone was all over him, almost to the point where it’s almost too much. I think he can be a really good third down back if he can learn how to block. An every down guy? Maybe down the road but his top heavy frame isn’t really built for it.

8 – Javorius Allen – USC - 6’0/221 - 77

Pro Upside Comparison: Chris Ivory/NYJ

Strong Points: Complete, every down back. Has the power, size, and running style to perform the role as a shirt yardage back. Can also catch the ball out of the backfield like a receiver and block oncoming pass rushers with consistent success. Strong and well developed lower body. Has the vision in space to create angles and take advantage of potential cutback lanes. Easy runner past the second level, has runaway speed. Equally effective inside and outside. Breaks a lot of tackles and will gain yards after contact on almost every carry. Relentless pursuit of more yards.

Weak Points: Inconsistent pad level when approaching the inside runs. Will leave his lower body susceptible to too much contact, some of which is unnecessary. Vision between the tackles doesn’t match his vision in space. Will be late to see running lanes on the straight ahead runs. Isn’t always as assertive as he should be. Will too often look for the big play rather than sure yards. Balance after cuts is inconsistent.

Summary: Fourth year junior entry. Put together a season and a half of very good, well balanced production. Allen may be one of the top all around backs in this class because his game really doesn’t have a standout weakness. He can run, catch, and block all at a high level. He is a hard nosed runner that will play through the whistle, but also has the finesse and vision of a space back. His frame will allow him to hold up for a lot of touches in the NFL, but even he needs to learn how to economically use his body. If he takes the amount of extra hits with his high pad level in the NFL as he did in college, he will have a hard time staying on the field. With that said, he has the upside to be a productive starter in the league.


*Hard guy not to like. He plays really hard and has a lot of talent, plain and simple. He can be a bruiser between the tackles but he’s one of those backs that can be faster than the guy chasing him. I always have an extra liking for those kind of backs. For where I think you can get him, he may be right up there with Cobb as the best value opportunity at the RB spot.

9 – Mike Davis – South Carolina – 5’9/217 - 76

Pro Upside Comparison – CJ Anderson/DEN

Strong Points: Short and stout with a low pad level. Hard target for the tackler to zero in on. Great quickness prior to contact with defenders. Misses the meat of a tackle and consistently falls forward. Savvy runner. Great vision and cutback ability. Dangerous in traffic and in the open field, can see things before they open up. Can set defenders up and plays a step ahead mentally. Good receiver out of the backfield. Effective in the screen game. Able to hide behind blockers and has the short area burst to accelerate past defenders in a pile. Breaks plenty of tackles several different ways.

Weak Points: Lacks the breakaway speed in the open field. Doesn’t have the extra gear after his initial acceleration. Doesn’t show loose hips to move laterally and miss defenders. Lacks experience as a blocker. Loses track of ball security in the open field.

Summary: Junior entry. Two year starter with proven ability to help both the rushing and passing attacks. Davis is a pure running back that is equally effective inside and outside of the tackles. He is a no-nonsense, very decisive runner that explodes through the hole with aggression and body control. He misses big contact often with his ability to shake and cut prior to meeting the tackler. He breaks tackles and consistently falls forward. He is a versatile offensive weapon that can be counted on to catch the ball and move north right away. A ball carrier with this kind of vision fits in to every system. He is built to handle the physical nature of the NFL. While the athletic upside may be a bit limited, he appears to be one of the most pro ready backs in this class.


*I’m not sure about Davis having the highest of ceilings but part of me is more confident he’ll be a reliable contributor than a lot of the guys above him on this list. He stepped in for Marcus Lattimore at South Carolina and just produced more and more. He may have the most natural hands and vision of all the backs in this class. He is a great mid round value if he drops a bit.

10 – TJ Yeldon – Alabama – 6’1/226 – 75

Pro Upside Comparison: Arian Foster/HOU

Strong Points: Tall, big, and fast. Quick acceleration out of the backfield and good approach to the line. Shows the patience to allow the action to transpire in front of him. Agile hips and quick feet. Good body control. Anticipates running lanes and has good vision. Will run with a good pad level and lean, allowing him to get the most power out of his strong lower half. Has the last second change of direction to miss the meat of a tackle. Good runaway speed. Good pass catcher with soft hands. High effort blocker that will stifle the blitzing linebacker. Excels as an inside and outside runner. Understands game situations and when to pick up necessary yards, runs with altering styles.

Weak Points: Has a fumbling issue. Does not secure the ball high and tight. Will drag plays out and loosen the ball’s attachment from his body. Will get too indecisive with his approach the point of attack. Hangs out behind the line of scrimmage with the ball in his hands for too long. Will create a high target for defenders. Minor durability issues.

Summary: Junior entry. Productive career that showed the versatility to be an every down back in the NFL early on. Has the physical ability to wear a few hats out of the backfield. Runs hard and fast with the quick burst and open field speed. A weapon as a receiver with a lot of production in the screen game in addition to being a good blocker. Yeldon has all the tools to be a star running back in the NFL, but he will need to shore up his ball security, which has been his Achilles heal all three seasons. High upside, versatile back.


*If you asked me where Yeldon would be drafted last year and/or the year before, I would have said 1st round no question. I wouldn’t say his value dropped but this is such a stacked RB class and Yeldon also failed to really take his game to the next level. I still like his game but there are a couple things like a lack of assertiveness and ball security that bothers me. He is uber-talented though.

NEXT 10

11 – Tyler Varga – Yale – 5’11/222
12 – Ameer Abdullah – Nebraska – 5’9/205
13 – Marcus Murphy – Missouri - 5’9/195
14 – Josh Robinson – Mississippi State – 5’9/215
15 – Cameron Artis-Payne – Auburn – 5’10/210
16 – Jeremy Langford – Michigan State – 6’0/205
17 – Gus Johnson – Stephen F. Austin – 5’10/215
18 – Karlos Williams – Florida State – 6’1/230
19 – Thomas Rawls – Central Michigan – 5’10/217
20 – Malcolm Brown – Texas – 5’11/225

NYG APPROACH

I think the NYG backfield is in good shape, especially after the signing of Vereen. I can’t say I was disappointed in that signing but it did leave a sour taste in that it may force NYG to hold off on a RB in this draft. There simply may not be room on the depth chart to warrant a selection with one of their first 5 picks. Like I said, this is probably the best RB class I’ve seen as a whole since I’ve been doing this and I even think some of my grades are on the conservative side. There are a few guys with legit superstar potential and at least another handful of guys that can be every down starters.

I understand the notion is that RBs can always be “found in the later rounds” but nothing leads me to think that is any more true that other positions. Take some time and look at how many teams have spent a 1st or 2nd rounder on the RB position. It’ probably more than you think. And it proposes this question: Are the current NYG RBs actually good enough to warrant passing on a really good value at RB in this draft if the opportunity presented itself? I lean towards no. If RB is the right value when NYG is on the clock in round 2, I may have to bite.






Melvin  
Jon in NYC : 3/26/2015 7:27 am : link
as no. 4 is a joke.
How long until Duke Johnson fanboy  
knicks3031 : 3/26/2015 7:37 am : link
destroys this thread?
Its a nice write-up  
Pep22 : 3/26/2015 7:38 am : link
but to me Melvin is # 1 and Abdullah is a heck of a lot higher than 11
12  
Pep22 : 3/26/2015 7:38 am : link
.
...  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 3/26/2015 8:12 am : link
Hillis was cut.
Fantastic  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 3/26/2015 8:24 am : link
job on this!
RE: ...  
Sy'56 : 3/26/2015 8:42 am : link
In comment 12203906 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
Hillis was cut.


Sorry Eric. I am using Spottrac for current contracts. They had him in there.
RE: Melvin  
Sy'56 : 3/26/2015 8:44 am : link
In comment 12203863 Jon in NYC said:
Quote:
as no. 4 is a joke.


Are you a Big 10 fan? I forget. And no not looking to spark an argument. It's just that the only people that I have debates with regarding Gordon are Big 10 guys.
RE: RE: Melvin  
giants#1 : 3/26/2015 8:51 am : link
In comment 12203953 Sy'56 said:
Quote:
In comment 12203863 Jon in NYC said:


Quote:


as no. 4 is a joke.



Are you a Big 10 fan? I forget. And no not looking to spark an argument. It's just that the only people that I have debates with regarding Gordon are Big 10 guys.


Pretty sure he's a Wisconsin fan!
Sy, your work on these threads each year is magnificient!  
GiantBlue : 3/26/2015 8:51 am : link
Thank you, Thank you! Just like Defenderdawg, you make this site a must-go on a daily basis.

I appreciate our current crop of RB's as they stand and adding Vereen will open up our third down package demonstrably. However, if Duke Johnson is available at 2 or 3, I would sure like to add this weapon.
Fantastic  
AcidTest : 3/26/2015 8:54 am : link
as usual.

But I don't want a RB. Jennings, Williams, Vereen, and a fourth from what we have is enough. We have other needs. Wouldn't use a two on Gurley because of the ACL. I know that puts me in the minority. Great player, as are some of the others you listed, but we have many other needs.
Great write-up. Thanks for doing it.  
cnewk : 3/26/2015 9:16 am : link
I see where you are coming from with Vereen. I think it is a pretty good signing, but it is a position where there seems to be good depth and likely good value in the draft. It would have been better if they could have signed a similar level player at safety where there doesn't seem to be as much in the draft.

Round 1 is obviously out for NYG taking a RB. Round 2 also seems unlikely, especially with the Vereen signing, even though there could be some good value there. Round 3 is the earliest I could really see them drafting a RB. The question is who will drop that far, and is there value available at a position of greater need.
If I had to predict what NYG will do at RB  
Sy'56 : 3/26/2015 9:18 am : link
I don't think they will touch a RB until the UDFA period.
Jay Ajayi has an alarming fumble rate  
Torrag : 3/26/2015 9:36 am : link
11 fumbles with 7 lost over two seasons. It's a coachable failing but one teams need to be aware of. He has 10" hands so you'd expect it is a technique and awareness issue.
RE: Sy, your work on these threads each year is magnificient!  
stillpoe : 3/26/2015 9:42 am : link
In comment 12203971 GiantBlue said:
Quote:
Thank you, Thank you! Just like Defenderdawg, you make this site a must-go on a daily basis.

I appreciate our current crop of RB's as they stand and adding Vereen will open up our third down package demonstrably. However, if Duke Johnson is available at 2 or 3, I would sure like to add this weapon.


If he's there at round 3, I really hope we pick him up. Outside of Gurley, he was my favorite back this past year. I love his balance and short-area burst. He's also tougher than his size would indicate and he can be great in this offense with his ability to catch out of the backfield.
I was happy that they addressed  
Reb8thVA : 3/26/2015 9:57 am : link
what I thought was a big need by signing Vereen. However, I had hoped they would do it through the draft. Nevertheless, I understand why they signed Vereen, they wanted a proven commodity that could step in and impact immediately. I still would have liked to see them have drafted Coleman as a long term solution at RB. Though given the numbers in the backfield now, I agree that it is unlikely they will draft an RB.
A general question about your ratings Sy...  
Reb8thVA : 3/26/2015 9:59 am : link
For the most part, there is maybe a one-two point differential among the top tier backs. Is there really an appreciable difference in your view?
Excellent read. Thanks Sy.  
Big Blue Blogger : 3/26/2015 10:00 am : link
With Jennings, Vereen and Williams on board, the value would have to be incredibly compelling for the Giants to consider RB before Day 3. Once you get to Round 4/5, a good football player is a good football player. As long as he can contribute on specials and climb the depth chart over the next year or two, spending a Day 3 pick on a RB is fine.
RE: A general question about your ratings Sy...  
Sy'56 : 3/26/2015 10:39 am : link
In comment 12204112 Reb8thVA said:
Quote:
For the most part, there is maybe a one-two point differential among the top tier backs. Is there really an appreciable difference in your view?


Yeh as you'll see there are a good amount of total prospects between these guys that are closely graded. Even with that said I really like a lot of these backs the same. Gurley is a step ahead if his knee passes the test.

But from what I've been taught by guys in the business....teams may have 20+ guys with the same grade. You are talking about 1,000+ prospects...a lot of them are going to have the same grade.
Thanks Sy'56  
LakeGeorgeGiant : 3/26/2015 10:50 am : link
Great job, I look forward to hearing more.
My god these are great...  
Capt. Don : 3/26/2015 11:47 am : link
REALLY REALLY appreciate it!
Thanks Sy  
old man : 3/26/2015 11:56 am : link
And I agree with your RB/Giants draft perspective; just too many other needs, and at best, one of the 7th rd picks as a 'just 'cause'.
Thank you!  
TC : 3/26/2015 12:04 pm : link
Another great job!

I was hoping too that the Giants might pick up a RB before the Vereen acquisition, which I like very much.

I have some concerns about Jennings and Williams. My concern about Jennings is whether he can get and stay healthy. But my concern about Williams is his game. I can't figure out what is happening, but while he will often plow through defenders at the POA, at other times he will go down like he was hit by a sniper. He seems to love the spin move, and it looks obvious that some of his abrupt stops come from trying to deploy it, but at other times, he just seems to go limp, almost as if he is shying from contact. Perhaps he's trying to process a next move and it's taking him longer than the NFL game will allow.


Sy  
OC2.0 : 3/26/2015 12:16 pm : link
Nice work as per usual.

I'd love to see Duke Johnson on this roster.
RE: RE: Melvin  
Jon in NYC : 3/26/2015 12:28 pm : link
In comment 12203953 Sy'56 said:
Quote:
In comment 12203863 Jon in NYC said:


Quote:


as no. 4 is a joke.



Are you a Big 10 fan? I forget. And no not looking to spark an argument. It's just that the only people that I have debates with regarding Gordon are Big 10 guys.


I went to Wisconsin. But it isn't a Big 10 thing. He put up his best numbers against SEC teams.
Excellent Sy.  
Victor in CT : 3/26/2015 12:31 pm : link
thanks
Well aware of what he did against SEC  
Sy'56 : 3/26/2015 12:42 pm : link
I've seen all those games.

I don't think I come across as not liking Gordon. He is one of the top 25 players on my board and I do think he is a REALLY high ceiling guy.

I just see things that I don't like each time watch him and I think there is a shot they get exposed in the NFL. He is very boom or bust to me.
Jeremy Langford at 16?  
Amtoft : 3/26/2015 1:46 pm : link
No way he isn't a one of the top 8 rated RBs in this draft. I would bet he will go sooner than anyone is talking about.
Thanks for this Sy  
allstarjim : 3/26/2015 3:15 pm : link
I can't say I agree with you on Ajayi. I think he's not quick enough, but could excel in a one-cut and go scheme. I just believe his lateral agility is not quick enough, although it was not really exposed in college, I think it will at the next level.

VERY surprised you don't have Abdullah much higher. I understand he is slighter of build than the ideal for a 3 down RB, but I think this guy is going to be a hell of a player at the next level, and will be more than a situational talent. I think he's at least capable of making a Sproles' like contribution right away. For me, I like him as the 3rd or 4th best RB in this class. I also remember an anonymous scout saying that he gave the highest grade on character to Abdullah of any player he's scouted, at any position. That's pretty remarkable by itself, but you watch him play and he's just an explosive offensive weapon. Obviously, he's not going to pass block much, but get the ball to him out of the backfield as a receiver, or let him run, and he's going to make big plays.

I also believe he'll be better between the tackles than most people expect, like Jamaal Charles.
Sy, any thoughts on small school standout Zach Zenner  
sjnyfan : 3/26/2015 3:19 pm : link
from South Dakota St.? It's a deep class this year but I think he's going to make a team very happy. One of my favorite players in the draft regardless of position.

I agree 100% on Duke Johnson. Of all the RBs expected to be at 40 come 5/1, he's the only one I'd take there.
RE: Jeremy Langford at 16?  
Sy'56 : 3/26/2015 3:51 pm : link
In comment 12204671 Amtoft said:
Quote:
No way he isn't a one of the top 8 rated RBs in this draft. I would bet he will go sooner than anyone is talking about.


He's another guy that simply has a lot of fans. I just think he is limited. Draftable? yes. But I don't think he'll do more than be OK between the tackles.

He is #21 by the way...right there with the guys at the end of the list.
RE: Thanks for this Sy  
Sy'56 : 3/26/2015 3:52 pm : link
In comment 12204904 allstarjim said:
Quote:
I can't say I agree with you on Ajayi. I think he's not quick enough, but could excel in a one-cut and go scheme. I just believe his lateral agility is not quick enough, although it was not really exposed in college, I think it will at the next level.

VERY surprised you don't have Abdullah much higher. I understand he is slighter of build than the ideal for a 3 down RB, but I think this guy is going to be a hell of a player at the next level, and will be more than a situational talent. I think he's at least capable of making a Sproles' like contribution right away. For me, I like him as the 3rd or 4th best RB in this class. I also remember an anonymous scout saying that he gave the highest grade on character to Abdullah of any player he's scouted, at any position. That's pretty remarkable by itself, but you watch him play and he's just an explosive offensive weapon. Obviously, he's not going to pass block much, but get the ball to him out of the backfield as a receiver, or let him run, and he's going to make big plays.

I also believe he'll be better between the tackles than most people expect, like Jamaal Charles.


Loved Abdullah before I actual scouted/researched him more. I think he can be a Sproles type player in the right scheme but his fumbling issues are among the worst in the country. That has to bother you a little.
RE: Sy, any thoughts on small school standout Zach Zenner  
Sy'56 : 3/26/2015 3:53 pm : link
In comment 12204912 sjnyfan said:
Quote:
from South Dakota St.? It's a deep class this year but I think he's going to make a team very happy. One of my favorite players in the draft regardless of position.

I agree 100% on Duke Johnson. Of all the RBs expected to be at 40 come 5/1, he's the only one I'd take there.


You could sneak Zenner in to that top 20 and I wouldn't call it out. He's right there with those guys and definitely worthy of being drafted.
I don't know about 4th  
Osi Osi Osi OyOyOy : 3/26/2015 5:51 pm : link
but I would definitely rank Gordon behind Gurley even with the ACL questions on the latter.

I love watching Gurley run. I've recently watched Trent Richardson college vids to try and see what I missed on him, and one thing was his fluidity. He wasn't really fluid for a top RB prospect and I think it's a big reason why he has been a bust. Gurley's got amazing fluidity for a guy his size. Just feels like such a safe bet to be a 3down stud outside of the ACL issue. I think if he were completely healthy, I'd also rank Gurley Top 5 overall.
Sy  
Emil : 3/26/2015 6:07 pm : link
Great read, I appreciate the time and research you do. I noticed you had Tyler Varga as your 11th RB and I was wondering if you could offer a few thoughts on him. He is listed as a FB, but like you I regard him as much more than that. To me he is a RB/FB/H-back, and special teams players. Any team that gets him is getting a good all around football player.
Pro Upside Comparison is cool  
Osi Osi Osi OyOyOy : 3/26/2015 9:31 pm : link
but if you could also throw in a "Similar Prospect who Disappointed" Downside Comparison as well, that would be great. Just to balance out the amazing Upside comps.

Great stuff though Sy. Can't wait to read the other positions.
RE: Sy  
Sy'56 : 3/26/2015 9:41 pm : link
In comment 12205093 Emil said:
Quote:
Great read, I appreciate the time and research you do. I noticed you had Tyler Varga as your 11th RB and I was wondering if you could offer a few thoughts on him. He is listed as a FB, but like you I regard him as much more than that. To me he is a RB/FB/H-back, and special teams players. Any team that gets him is getting a good all around football player.


Varga is a Danny Woodhead type player in the NFL. Small and maybe not that fast...but he has such a natural feel for the game when he has the ball. He can see the lanes before they open, knows how to fall forward. Aware of game situations. Question will be if he can catch the ball like Woodhead does.

Give me a Varga in round 6 over almost all those guys in the first 4 rounds...I take that all day. He will be a player.
DUKE JOHNSON IS TIKI  
MiamiHurricaneFan : 3/26/2015 9:58 pm : link
go look at dukes tape his junior year and tell me he doesn't remind you of a more athletic tiki barber

duke is the total package......he will be ROY.
RE: DUKE JOHNSON IS TIKI  
B in ALB : 3/26/2015 11:09 pm : link
In comment 12205564 MiamiHurricaneFan said:
Quote:
go look at dukes tape his junior year and tell me he doesn't remind you of a more athletic tiki barber

duke is the total package......he will be ROY.


OK. Settle down
Compared to Ahmad Bradshaw.  
TC : 3/26/2015 11:53 pm : link
Just don't let him near a casino or a handbag!

Not as quick or elusive as Ahmad, but may have more power, and has good vision.

Might like him as a round 7 pick, or UDFA if the Giants don't take any other RB.

NFL.Com - ( New Window )
Holy Cow! Zowie Batman!  
Hot Rod in Florida : 3/27/2015 12:31 am : link
The first 5 RBs are equated to Peterson, Lynch, McCoy, Charles,and Murray. That's pretty dang impressive company. If true, I would take any one of them in any round I could get them. Even #6 compared to Frank Gore is pretty special.
Sy, don't see how you can list these weak points for Ajayi  
BlueLou : 3/27/2015 2:45 am : link
and rate him above Gordon or Duke Johnson... Albeit one point isn't much.
Quote:
Weak Points: Struggles to reach the edge against fast defenses. Will take too long to make decisions. Tries too often to cut his way out of traffic rather than putting his head down and gaining positive yards. Runs sloppy routes of the backfield. Has had issues with ball security after initial contact with defenders.


So I like your writeups more than I agree with the grades by points...

Maybe you are too in love with the way an RB looks rather than plays? In that case Andre Williams would be all world, no? Rather than (to this point) pedestrian?

Also I don't think the Giants will press the issue, but even with the Vereen signing they can use a studly "3 down back" like the few you have mentioned as specifically such.
Sy  
Mike in NY : 3/27/2015 7:17 am : link
Thoughts on Azusa Pacific RB Terrell Watson?
Blue Lou  
Sy'56 : 3/27/2015 8:45 am : link
Couple things...

The number one thing I want out of a RB is the ability to break tackles. And then I want short area explosion and change of direction. Ajayi is much better at breaking tackles than Gordon and I think he moves just as well in short space.

I really don't see drastic differences grade wise from Ajayi/Gordon/Johnson.....but they are all very different backs from each other. So I really think it will be based on what kind of back a team needs.

And no worries about disagreeing....remember...if we all agreed this wouldn't be worth discussing.
RE: Sy  
Sy'56 : 3/27/2015 8:46 am : link
In comment 12205773 Mike in NY said:
Quote:
Thoughts on Azusa Pacific RB Terrell Watson?


Only exposure I have on him is the NFLPA Bowl...where I wasn't really impressed with his agility and change of direction. Hard downhill runner that can break tackles though...but really just a training camp body.
Good job  
Bones : 3/27/2015 10:48 am : link
And I agree Giants won't draft a RB this year. I think your grades on Gurley and Mike Davis are too low. I agree with your assessment of Abdullah, but I think someone will fall in love with his speed and quickness and draft him in the first round.
Sy,  
TC : 3/27/2015 1:59 pm : link
any interest in the guy I mentioned above, Thomas Rawls, as a 7th round or UDFA pick up?

Couldn't find much to watch except this two-year old clip when he must have been either a freshman or sophomore. He's #38.

I realize he's not a top tier RB, but he does have some of the tools you mentioned. And he's got Ahmad's jump cut. But unfortunately, also seems to have been able to do dumb stuff to get himself in trouble with the law.

Video: Thomas Rawls - ( New Window )
I have consistently liked Coleman  
blueblood : 3/27/2015 2:56 pm : link
his running style is reminiscent of Eric Dickerson to me.
Amazing work  
Danny Kanell : 3/27/2015 6:59 pm : link
Thank you.
My apologies . . . .  
TC : 3/27/2015 8:51 pm : link
to any who tried the link I provided for RB Thomas Rawls.

I evidently grabbed the wrong URL (To an old HS game.) rather than Michigan where I believe he played in 2012.

He was at Central Michigan last year, and I found a video from that season. He wears jersey #34, and they're playing Ball State.

Video: Thomas Rawls vs. Ball State - ( New Window )
Sy  
blapre74 : 3/28/2015 9:00 am : link
very good post and information. If the Giants were confronted with Gurley on round # 2, would you pull the trigger?
Sy,  
CT Charlie : 3/28/2015 11:10 am : link
How did Andre Williams compare with any/all of these guys? In college he could break tackles, move the pile and outrun guys, though we knew he was weak in pass catching.
SY I think the NYG are higher on Williams then you are  
DavidinBMNY : 3/28/2015 4:55 pm : link
Don't get me wrong, I also feel the same way about this RB class being loaded and a ton of guys that would fit. Johnson could have been Vereen at a fraction of the price.

Thing is I think they really like Williams. I think as the roster is constituted they will only grab a RB based on exceptional value because they have their 3 guys.

Also, while I agree on Michael Johnson, I feel Orleans Darwka could be serviceable. I think he has a realistic shot to make the team as a 4th rb.

2nd and 3rd rd is going to be running back mania this year.
14 – Josh Robinson – Mississippi State – 5’9/215  
solarmike : 3/31/2015 10:22 pm : link
Sy,

Thanks for a great post.

I feel that we are set at primary RB's but I just love the film on Josh Robinson. I think a Round 6 pick is worth grabbing him. Might be a lot of fun to watch the young fellow in a NYG uniform. Takes me back to Joe Morris days - short and powerful.

Enjoy,

SolarMike


Josh Robinson || "The Human Bowling Ball" || Mississippi State Highlights - ( New Window )
Back to the Corner