when I was growing up we studied the Declaration of Independence an The Constitution. Our teachers made an effort for us to grasp their significance and how they provide the framework for our freedom. What the fuck do they teach kids in school these days? Anything of value?
Where do all these cockroach fucktards originate and how do they get elected to public office? I don't live an alternate lifestyle but why the fuck does anyone care who does? Leave people alone to live their lives.
Whatever happened to separation of church and state . Shouldn't the governor be focused on bringing jobs to Indiana. America is stuck in the past. Open up the present! !
i watched a view cnn clips about this, if you notice the people that were for this legislation were all over the ages of 45.. mostly grey hairs... give it 20-30 years and it won't matter. that generation will die off with there fucked up values.. hopefully their children will have a little more of an open mind.. if you think about this on a bigger scale, how can the republican party last, if they don't start adopting more modern values.. you can't tell me that's not in the back of their heads..
If you own a company that does business with the public at large, you are not allowed to discriminate whom you can or cannot do business with. This law is using the same logic of the Jim Crow laws that created segregation in the South so many years ago. You cannot use your faith to discriminate period.
that lets businesses turn away Jews and Blacks for religious reasons too?
Look, there is a fairly solid libertarian argument against requiring businesses to be non-discriminatory in hiring and serving customers. But that isnt the law of the land, so to single out LGBTs as ok on the discrimination list is just mean spirited.
the bill does not "allow businesses to reject LGBT." The bill permits someone accused of discrimination to raise an affirmative defense (in other words, it is the accused person's burden to prove) that a governmental entity or statute "substantially burdens" that person's exercise of their religion.
It doesn't stop anyone from filing a complaint and it doesn't stop anyone from bringing suit. It doesn't stop any court from finding illegal discrimination. It merely allows the opportunity to raise and prove the defense.
Now oppose it or not, that is your choice, but at least argue over the actual text. The descriptions of the bill in press reports are at best incomplete and at worst misleading.
LOS ANGELES — Even in a state known for its far-reaching and sometimes outlandish voter initiatives, the one proposed by a Huntington Beach lawyer seems stunning: the “Sodomite Suppression Act,” mandating, among other things, that any person who has sexual relations with someone of the same gender be “put to death by bullets to the head.”
It appears highly unlikely that the lawyer, Matthew G. McLaughlin, can collect the 365,880 signatures of registered voters — 5 percent of the total who voted for governor in the last election — needed to put the initiative on the ballot. Even if he does, it seems even more unlikely that it would ever pass in this state. And even if it did, opponents said, it would almost certainly be thrown out by a judge.
But this episode has thrown a new and unwanted light on California’s historically permissive voter initiative system, created in the early 1900s at the height of the Progressive Era and today the system under which much of California law is enacted. It is voters, and not the Legislature, who have put into place major laws dealing with everything from property taxes to crime to Proposition 8, the 2008 initiative that banned same-sex marriage. That law was later overturned in the courts.
“This just shows how nuts and wrongheaded we are about direct democracy,” said Joe Mathews, a critic of this state’s governance system. “This points out a shameful, problematic thing. You can put anything on the ballot.”
the bill does not "allow businesses to reject LGBT." The bill permits someone accused of discrimination to raise an affirmative defense (in other words, it is the accused person's burden to prove) that a governmental entity or statute "substantially burdens" that person's exercise of their religion.
It doesn't stop anyone from filing a complaint and it doesn't stop anyone from bringing suit. It doesn't stop any court from finding illegal discrimination. It merely allows the opportunity to raise and prove the defense.
Now oppose it or not, that is your choice, but at least argue over the actual text. The descriptions of the bill in press reports are at best incomplete and at worst misleading.
Here is the actual bill text - ( New Window )
You have a point, but the bill does give business owners a case for defense if/when they reject LGBTQ customers. Thus enabling them to discriminate (potentially) legally.
LOS ANGELES — Even in a state known for its far-reaching and sometimes outlandish voter initiatives, the one proposed by a Huntington Beach lawyer seems stunning: the “Sodomite Suppression Act,” mandating, among other things, that any person who has sexual relations with someone of the same gender be “put to death by bullets to the head.”
It appears highly unlikely that the lawyer, Matthew G. McLaughlin, can collect the 365,880 signatures of registered voters — 5 percent of the total who voted for governor in the last election — needed to put the initiative on the ballot. Even if he does, it seems even more unlikely that it would ever pass in this state. And even if it did, opponents said, it would almost certainly be thrown out by a judge.
But this episode has thrown a new and unwanted light on California’s historically permissive voter initiative system, created in the early 1900s at the height of the Progressive Era and today the system under which much of California law is enacted. It is voters, and not the Legislature, who have put into place major laws dealing with everything from property taxes to crime to Proposition 8, the 2008 initiative that banned same-sex marriage. That law was later overturned in the courts.
“This just shows how nuts and wrongheaded we are about direct democracy,” said Joe Mathews, a critic of this state’s governance system. “This points out a shameful, problematic thing. You can put anything on the ballot.”
Link - ( New Window )
It's depressing.
Whatsoever you do to the least of my brothers...... Â
the hypocrisy of the religious right in action. Putting aside the legal issues for a moment, you can hate the sin and not the sinner. Another example of where the christian right tries to hold a monopoly on the term Christian and falls flat on its face.
Bared on the reasoning wouldn't the same businesses then have to deny service to adulterers, fornicators, thiefs, murderers, liars...etc...
I cannot believe anyone would attach their name to something hateful as that.
I know. As someone, who grew up in California, it just boggles my mind.
And while legally they may have to let this play out, there are enough people to quash this despicable nonsense. And hopefully this asshole gets a swift kick from karma.
But let me start off by saying to pass a bill like this is foolish and meant to discriminate , and I definatly agree that it's wrong.
But...
If you and your beliefs do not want to be a target , then you should not make yourself one.
The first time I witnessed a gay couple , I was about 10 years old in upstate NY . My mother asked me to go into the gas station and pay for gas . I went in and while I'm waiting in line , these 2 guys dressed like circus performers , began to jam thier tongues down each other's throats . When they finished they began talking in what would be considered a " gay voice " and waving thier hands around like they had no control over thier wrists.
They obviously wanted to get people's attention. Well they got it . Some other customers noticed me (10 years old in my little league jersey) behind the 2 men and told them to knock it off , there was a kid behind them . One of the gay guys began to act like he was flirting with the man who told them to stop. Saying ohhh baby you want some too ? To which he punched the guy in the face.
Even at 10 years young , I realized this could have been avoided . The man that told them to stop , would have told any couple , gay or straight , to stop because there was a child around. Then they instigated the man by trying to push his buttons . I also thought to myself , does the fact that you like other guys change your voice ? Change the way you dress ? Does it make you loud and obnoxious ? And does your wrist seem to flop all over the place with every statement you make ?
No, you do those things to make a statement , that you belong to a type of group . Almost like wearing your teams colors . Seems a lot like pulling up to Eagles stadium with a car covered in Giants streamers and bumper stickers , getting out of your car with your #80 jersey and yelling Cruuuuuuuuz!!!
Your painting a target on yourself . Does that Giants fan want to be left alone ? To live his life as a Giants fan ? Or is he trying to make a scene ?
Fast forward 20 years later and I'm living in Tampa . There was a Gay rights protest in Downtown . I didn't even hear about it on the news , so I wasnt aware that I should find a different route to get home. So stuck in traffic and watching this protest do circles around a courtyard in downtown , I noticed that 90% of the people were shirtless , the other 10% were lesbians . There were more men wearing makeup than the women that were there , and as the guys passed by some of them blowing kisses at myself and some other male drivers waiting in traffic. So , I couldn't help but to think........things never change.
Don't these people realize , they would get more respect and objective views of there protest if they had just showed up in what they came from work in ?
I for one would have been much more impressed and open to what ever they were protesting for if instead of seeing 2 drag queens shirtless covered in makeup, I saw a guy with his Taco Bell shirt holding hands with a guy in a suit . Instead I just said to myself "ohh boy , here we go "
But that's the point right , to be different , to make a scene . They realize it's not the relationship part that scares people , it's the behavior. So they continue to push it until people react. They don't want to be left alone , they don't want to conform ,to paint a target on themselves ....they want the attention, until it's inconvienent.
It's like having someone poke you with a stick over and over , then thier friends join in and they all think it's cute and laugh about it . But then when you hit one of them cause your sick of it , they cry and act like your the asshole .
Point is , we all have sticks , doesn't mean we have to poke people with them . Pun intended !
But seriously people will let gay people do whatever they want , the second they stop trying to rub everyone's face in it. Until then it will always be a problem.
But let me start off by saying to pass a bill like this is foolish and meant to discriminate , and I definatly agree that it's wrong.
But...
If you and your beliefs do not want to be a target , then you should not make yourself one.
The first time I witnessed a gay couple , I was about 10 years old in upstate NY . My mother asked me to go into the gas station and pay for gas . I went in and while I'm waiting in line , these 2 guys dressed like circus performers , began to jam thier tongues down each other's throats . When they finished they began talking in what would be considered a " gay voice " and waving thier hands around like they had no control over thier wrists.
They obviously wanted to get people's attention. Well they got it . Some other customers noticed me (10 years old in my little league jersey) behind the 2 men and told them to knock it off , there was a kid behind them . One of the gay guys began to act like he was flirting with the man who told them to stop. Saying ohhh baby you want some too ? To which he punched the guy in the face.
Even at 10 years young , I realized this could have been avoided . The man that told them to stop , would have told any couple , gay or straight , to stop because there was a child around. Then they instigated the man by trying to push his buttons . I also thought to myself , does the fact that you like other guys change your voice ? Change the way you dress ? Does it make you loud and obnoxious ? And does your wrist seem to flop all over the place with every statement you make ?
No, you do those things to make a statement , that you belong to a type of group . Almost like wearing your teams colors . Seems a lot like pulling up to Eagles stadium with a car covered in Giants streamers and bumper stickers , getting out of your car with your #80 jersey and yelling Cruuuuuuuuz!!!
Your painting a target on yourself . Does that Giants fan want to be left alone ? To live his life as a Giants fan ? Or is he trying to make a scene ?
Fast forward 20 years later and I'm living in Tampa . There was a Gay rights protest in Downtown . I didn't even hear about it on the news , so I wasnt aware that I should find a different route to get home. So stuck in traffic and watching this protest do circles around a courtyard in downtown , I noticed that 90% of the people were shirtless , the other 10% were lesbians . There were more men wearing makeup than the women that were there , and as the guys passed by some of them blowing kisses at myself and some other male drivers waiting in traffic. So , I couldn't help but to think........things never change.
Don't these people realize , they would get more respect and objective views of there protest if they had just showed up in what they came from work in ?
I for one would have been much more impressed and open to what ever they were protesting for if instead of seeing 2 drag queens shirtless covered in makeup, I saw a guy with his Taco Bell shirt holding hands with a guy in a suit . Instead I just said to myself "ohh boy , here we go "
But that's the point right , to be different , to make a scene . They realize it's not the relationship part that scares people , it's the behavior. So they continue to push it until people react. They don't want to be left alone , they don't want to conform ,to paint a target on themselves ....they want the attention, until it's inconvienent.
It's like having someone poke you with a stick over and over , then thier friends join in and they all think it's cute and laugh about it . But then when you hit one of them cause your sick of it , they cry and act like your the asshole .
Point is , we all have sticks , doesn't mean we have to poke people with them . Pun intended !
But seriously people will let gay people do whatever they want , the second they stop trying to rub everyone's face in it. Until then it will always be a problem.
Hey...I'm not a racist...but I'm a racist. Same shitty argument rationalized and masked in a shitty manner.
And you went down hill from the start:
Quote:
"If you and your beliefs do not want to be a target , then you should not make yourself one."
Yes, being gay is a belief. So a gay couple walking into a restaurant with their adopted kids is them showing their beliefs and thus making them into a target.
Seriously, If I were you, I would stop while I'm way way behind.
No idea why they need to single out any specific Â
group. If you want to be an prejudiced asshole, can't you just be generic and say "management reserves the right to not serve customers for any reason" and then live out your homophobic, racist, ageist, anti-semetic, sexist, whatever-ist insecurities and douchiness under one giant cloak of hate?
or is that wrong?
RE: No idea why they need to single out any specific Â
group. If you want to be an prejudiced asshole, can't you just be generic and say "management reserves the right to not serve customers for any reason" and then live out your homophobic, racist, ageist, anti-semetic, sexist, whatever-ist insecurities and douchiness under one giant cloak of hate?
or is that wrong?
Hey...but only those gays do eccentric things to draw attention to their beliefs...hence they make themselves into targets. At least that's what I learned recently.
A gay couple walking there adopted child into a resturant does NOT make a scene . Well , because who is to know if they are just brothers or sisters walking in with one of there kids .
If me and my brother walk into Applebee's with his son , should people assume we are gay ? I guarentee they won't . Because I'm not parading around with a gay "banner"or drawing attention to myself .
A gay couple walking there adopted child into a resturant does NOT make a scene . Well , because who is to know if they are just brothers or sisters walking in with one of there kids .
If me and my brother walk into Applebee's with his son , should people assume we are gay ? I guarentee they won't . Because I'm not parading around with a gay "banner"or drawing attention to myself .
Your proving my point .
Proving what point? That you're a bigoted scumbag? Done.
A gay couple walking there adopted child into a resturant does NOT make a scene . Well , because who is to know if they are just brothers or sisters walking in with one of there kids .
If me and my brother walk into Applebee's with his son , should people assume we are gay ? I guarentee they won't . Because I'm not parading around with a gay "banner"or drawing attention to myself .
Your proving my point .
So if those two men decided to give each other loving looks and gave each other a normal kiss that any married couples give, that would be ok with you? Or should they just hide the fact that they're couple and make others think that they're just friends or brothers?
Either way, your attempt at trying to mask your homophobic nature is rather weak. So yes, you're proving my point regarding "I'm not a homophobe, but I really am" about you.
I would refrain from posting on this thread and let this one die down. You aren't doing yourself a favor in disproving the impression that you are a homophobe.
doesn't get you banned - just ask Great White Ghost who railed against "dicksucks" in a hate-filled tirade, and still posts.
I don't think he should be banned at all. And his beliefs are his own, no matter how jacked up it is. However, if he voices it in such a cowardly manner, he should expect nothing less than a total ridiculing of his character here. Hence, my advice for him to just stop while he was way way behind.
RE: Rob, racists like PA Giants get a free pass around here too Â
and these shopkeepers who raise this defense all have gay children.
Why? So that they can ostracize them and drive them to depression and potential suicides?
I was thinking more along the lines that this might be the only way for these ignoramuses and/or bigots to realize how wrong they are and that maybe having someone so close to them be "different" will help them come to accept and treat gay people equally.
It's a digression but since you brought up Iran...
The AP headline that just came across my phone says "US is considering letting Iran run hundreds of centrifuges in a fortified, underground bunker...". WTF? Even you have to look a little askance at that, right?
I am not a racist. Show me my racist comments. I have an issue with the idea that simply racism is the biggest issue that black people deal with and believe black on black crime, poverty, drug laws, education, babies having babies are far more the issue then anything else.
And I believe that if these issues were improved there would be less racism. I see it as a cycle. I believe most people to be good and that racism on it's face is simply stupid since we are all the same beings.
intentionally making a spectacle of yourself in public is generally undesirable behavior.
What does Jewish guy acting all Jewy supposed to mean anyway? Are you implying there's a specific way there supposed to act?
Yes...but as TheCatch seems to imply, that's the way of the gay people and their beliefs. They should just not act gay and stuff in public then people won't think that they're gay, which is what we all want, amirite?
Wow , I expected some pushback but I atleast thought Â
There would be some interesting points made . Instead I'm being called a biggot? On what grounds ? Ohh and a racist ? Towards what race ? How do you know I'm not Jewish , black , Chinese , Mexican or white ? What if I'm all of those things ? Am I a man or woman ?
Or do you usually just make assumptions to try and prove a point ?
won't recognize Gay marriage. Supreme Court already ruled on it and these states still want to fight it. WTF - waste of taxpayer money.
Cannot understand a business turning away customers when margins are so close.
Florida, like California, has citizens amendments to to constitution. So something that has become a constitutional amendment by voter initiative is the law of the land. What sounded like a good idea a few years ago becomes not so much today. The state can't fix it because it's in the state constitutional. Why, until earlier this year and a federal judge ruled the amendment unconstitutional for the entire state, they were forced to let it play out in the courts or get taken to court themselves for not upholding the state constitution. Voter initiatives are a double edged sword as societies evolve.
and these shopkeepers who raise this defense all have gay children.
Why? So that they can ostracize them and drive them to depression and potential suicides?
I was thinking more along the lines that this might be the only way for these ignoramuses and/or bigots to realize how wrong they are and that maybe having someone so close to them be "different" will help them come to accept and treat gay people equally.
But many won't. Many will shun their kids or try to "ungay" their kids. Not all parents are even that openminded when it comes to their kids.
The idea that one should be able to discriminate based on sexual orientation is ridiculous. The gay people I call friends are all busy having families, working hard and making a nice life for themselves. No different then any other family I know.
There would be some interesting points made . Instead I'm being called a biggot? On what grounds ? Ohh and a racist ? Towards what race ? How do you know I'm not Jewish , black , Chinese , Mexican or white ? What if I'm all of those things ? Am I a man or woman ?
Or do you usually just make assumptions to try and prove a point ?
Don't give a fuck what race or gender you are. Homophobes come in many different colors and can be men or women. But keep talking. You're doing a great job of stamping the "I'm a bigot" sign on your forehead like a scarlet letter.
That's not how I read it. His beef appears to be with certain behaviors that most people would find tasteless no matter who was doing them. I'm a big believer in equal rights for everyone but you have to hold them to the same standards, too.
That's not how I read it. His beef appears to be with certain behaviors that most people would find tasteless no matter who was doing them. I'm a big believer in equal rights for everyone but you have to hold them to the same standards, too.
How often do you see an episode of Queer as Folk break out at the local 7-11?
That's not how I read it. His beef appears to be with certain behaviors that most people would find tasteless no matter who was doing them. I'm a big believer in equal rights for everyone but you have to hold them to the same standards, too.
He would have done a lot better if he had advocated "No PDA" legislation.
I think the knee jerk "bigot" name-calling is a level above what's warranted here.
There's no GWG-like smoking gun homophobic content in Catch's post whatsoever, so I think asking for further clarification before busting out the pitchforks is a more appropriate response.
I understand this is difficult for certain hotheaded posters from LA but every moment in opportunity to improve oneself.
That's not how I read it. His beef appears to be with certain behaviors that most people would find tasteless no matter who was doing them. I'm a big believer in equal rights for everyone but you have to hold them to the same standards, too.
And you missed this gem, right?
Quote:
Ohhh stop
TheCatch : 1:35 pm : link : reply
A gay couple walking there adopted child into a resturant does NOT make a scene . Well , because who is to know if they are just brothers or sisters walking in with one of there kids .
If me and my brother walk into Applebee's with his son , should people assume we are gay ? I guarentee they won't . Because I'm not parading around with a gay "banner"or drawing attention to myself .
Your proving my point .
I like you, RB...but you're missing the "they should act like the rest of us, then they won't be targets" BS. People can act any way they want as long as it doesn't hurt anyone. To discriminate against others for being different has nothing to do with standards as much as wanting to not have to look at things that make you uncomfortable.
We'll agree to disagree on what TheCatch meant, but I stand by that he's a cowardly homophobe bigot. Ah well.
is that money is green regardless of who spends it. They should have zero other concern about anything else for or against. They're not fuckwits because they're homophobes (or maybe they are but that's not as relevant), they're fuckwits because they're poor businessmen.
won't recognize Gay marriage. Supreme Court already ruled on it and these states still want to fight it. WTF - waste of taxpayer money.
Cannot understand a business turning away customers when margins are so close.
Florida, like California, has citizens amendments to to constitution. So something that has become a constitutional amendment by voter initiative is the law of the land. What sounded like a good idea a few years ago becomes not so much today. The state can't fix it because it's in the state constitutional. Why, until earlier this year and a federal judge ruled the amendment unconstitutional for the entire state, they were forced to let it play out in the courts or get taken to court themselves for not upholding the state constitution. Voter initiatives are a double edged sword as societies evolve.
The process just has to playout.
ctc you are so right on these voter amendments in our beloved state. Really bad idea. The state house cannot amend them like a normal law and we are stuck with the unintended consequences.
I think the knee jerk "bigot" name-calling is a level above what's warranted here.
There's no GWG-like smoking gun homophobic content in Catch's post whatsoever, so I think asking for further clarification before busting out the pitchforks is a more appropriate response.
I understand this is difficult for certain hotheaded posters from LA but every moment in opportunity to improve oneself.
Haha...I'll take that into advisement. But I stand by my own interpretation. You do what you have to do.
I think the knee jerk "bigot" name-calling is a level above what's warranted here.
There's no GWG-like smoking gun homophobic content in Catch's post whatsoever, so I think asking for further clarification before busting out the pitchforks is a more appropriate response.
I understand this is difficult for certain hotheaded posters from LA but every moment in opportunity to improve oneself.
There's no homophobic content in Catch's post?? Funniest fucking thing I've read all day.
That's not how I read it. His beef appears to be with certain behaviors that most people would find tasteless no matter who was doing them. I'm a big believer in equal rights for everyone but you have to hold them to the same standards, too.
How often do you see an episode of Queer as Folk break out at the local 7-11?
Not often but the point remains. Why? Will that be your next photo shop? Don't forget Davidson.
That's not how I read it. His beef appears to be with certain behaviors that most people would find tasteless no matter who was doing them. I'm a big believer in equal rights for everyone but you have to hold them to the same standards, too.
And you missed this gem, right?
Quote:
Ohhh stop
TheCatch : 1:35 pm : link : reply
A gay couple walking there adopted child into a resturant does NOT make a scene . Well , because who is to know if they are just brothers or sisters walking in with one of there kids .
If me and my brother walk into Applebee's with his son , should people assume we are gay ? I guarentee they won't . Because I'm not parading around with a gay "banner"or drawing attention to myself .
Your proving my point .
I like you, RB...but you're missing the "they should act like the rest of us, then they won't be targets" BS. People can act any way they want as long as it doesn't hurt anyone. To discriminate against others for being different has nothing to do with standards as much as wanting to not have to look at things that make you uncomfortable.
We'll agree to disagree on what TheCatch meant, but I stand by that he's a cowardly homophobe bigot. Ah well.
(not disagreeing for the sake of disagreeing)
I disagree. I think you can impose certain behavioral standards on your customers. (And yeah, I know this contradicts my last post). For example, I totally and enthusiastically endorse dress codes for restaurants and would support a "No children allowed" rule at many places if it were feasible.
RB, you can address me directly , instead of trying to be so coy Â
I think the knee jerk "bigot" name-calling is a level above what's warranted here.
There's no GWG-like smoking gun homophobic content in Catch's post whatsoever, so I think asking for further clarification before busting out the pitchforks is a more appropriate response.
I understand this is difficult for certain hotheaded posters from LA but every moment in opportunity to improve oneself.
I'm not saying thecatch had offensive language or not, or he's any -ist or not. But I agree people throw the racist label out around here constantly and freely.
use the word thug, you're a racist. Disagree with them on evidence in a trial, you're a racist.
Some people obviously are and they've proven that and deserve it.
I was reading John Grisham's latest novel Gray Mountain and he uses the word thug multiple times to describe some people (of unknown race but I assume white) hired by the oil companies to protect their demolition activities in the West Virginia mountains.
My first thought was, huh, I wonder if BBI realizes John Grisham is racist.
You know nothing about me and I won't waste the time trying to prove who I am , that's not what this is about.
What is Jewy anyway ? Or blackish ? Your proving my point even further .
There are no preconceived or natural behaviors , only ones that people WANT to act like to associate themselves with a certain group,and THAT is my point .
Also , of course there is no problem with a loving glance or kiss , but does it piss you off when you out with your family and a man and woman start making out in the booth next to you.
Of course it does , and you would probably say something or ask the manager to do something. But if it's a Gay couple , you better not even have an opinion ! They have rights too .
Do they have any more rights than the straight couple ? Why is it not the same ? What's good for one should be good for all.
I still don't consider this gang-up worthy. I think explaining to Catch the error of his ways is a better course of action. He doesn't come accross to me like a closed-minded, unreformable dickbag like GWG.
...ist gets used more as a propaganda tool than a point of debate. It's a speech quencher without trying to look as if you're using force. That's not to say that it isn't, at times appropriately used.
TheCatch let an incident when he was a kid paint his Â
opinions of gay people for the rest of his life. The behaviors he outlined that were so outlandish, and got his trousers in a bunch is men being shirtless, speaking in 'gay voices', and limp wrists. So yeah, I think he's a bigot.
RE: TheCatch let an incident when he was a kid paint his Â
opinions of gay people for the rest of his life. The behaviors he outlined that were so outlandish, and got his trousers in a bunch is men being shirtless, speaking in 'gay voices', and limp wrists. So yeah, I think he's a bigot.
An incident that probably never even happened. Just sayin'...
It doesn't exist. What I just wrote is what I have written 100x. You called me a racist....surely you would be able to say why I am a racist and what it is that I said that was racist.
I believe that racism is so stupid on its face these days, that you have to look at the whole picture.
Eh...before you White Knights come to TheCatch's rescue... Â
To imply that if gay people would just act normally and let people guess whether they were gay or not instead of advertising that they are by carrying around "the gay banner" wherever they go is both insulting to millions of gay people and those, who want them to live their lives without discrimination.
Very few gay people actually conduct themselves in flamboyant manners in gay pride parades. But to use that as some kind of a defense for this bill or any other discriminatory bills shows one's own agenda, which borders on homophobic bigotry.
Everyone is entitled to their own beliefs, but others are also entitled to call out cowardly bigots in a knee jerk manner, especially when they double down and remove any doubt.
RE: RE: TheCatch let an incident when he was a kid paint his Â
opinions of gay people for the rest of his life. The behaviors he outlined that were so outlandish, and got his trousers in a bunch is men being shirtless, speaking in 'gay voices', and limp wrists. So yeah, I think he's a bigot.
An incident that probably never even happened. Just sayin'...
That's possible but then you're saying he's lying, which is assuming a lot.
That's not how I read it. His beef appears to be with certain behaviors that most people would find tasteless no matter who was doing them. I'm a big believer in equal rights for everyone but you have to hold them to the same standards, too.
To imply that if gay people would just act normally and let people guess whether they were gay or not instead of advertising that they are by carrying around "the gay banner" wherever they go is both insulting to millions of gay people and those, who want them to live their lives without discrimination.
Very few gay people actually conduct themselves in flamboyant manners in gay pride parades. But to use that as some kind of a defense for this bill or any other discriminatory bills shows one's own agenda, which borders on homophobic bigotry.
Everyone is entitled to their own beliefs, but others are also entitled to call out cowardly bigots in a knee jerk manner, especially when they double down and remove any doubt.
Yep.
What he began with was, "gay people shouldn't act gay"- which has now turned to simply PDA's...which would be taken care of with a law about PDA's- and nothing to do with gay or straight.
But fuck Applebee's and their gay orgies. Seriously.
20 years ago, things were different. You saw more flamboyant types as a higher % of those you could identify as gay. Now that society has become more advanced, gay people do not need to hide their sexuality as a general rule. It also depends on who you associate with. In a professional setting there is less of difference in behavior then if you worked in the arts or theatre...
To imply that if gay people would just act normally and let people guess whether they were gay or not instead of advertising that they are by carrying around "the gay banner" wherever they go is both insulting to millions of gay people and those, who want them to live their lives without discrimination.
Very few gay people actually conduct themselves in flamboyant manners in gay pride parades. But to use that as some kind of a defense for this bill or any other discriminatory bills shows one's own agenda, which borders on homophobic bigotry.
Everyone is entitled to their own beliefs, but others are also entitled to call out cowardly bigots in a knee jerk manner, especially when they double down and remove any doubt.
Yep.
What he began with was, "gay people shouldn't act gay"- which has now turned to simply PDA's...which would be taken care of with a law about PDA's- and nothing to do with gay or straight.
But fuck Applebee's and their gay orgies. Seriously.
I would so vote like a Chicagoan for a law banning PDA's.
opinions of gay people for the rest of his life. The behaviors he outlined that were so outlandish, and got his trousers in a bunch is men being shirtless, speaking in 'gay voices', and limp wrists. So yeah, I think he's a bigot.
I have no deep rooted issue , I'm speaking about behavior and the result of it . Good or bad . If you read what I wrote , I stated this could have been avoided.
Like when the Giants fan goes to Philly. If someone threw a football at him when he was tailgating or threw a beer at him in the stadium , nobody here would think twice about . We would think he was very brave and a little stupid for behaving that way. It would be headline news if the guy was gay and these things happened.
There is BEING yourself and there's painting a TARGET on yourself.
Two completely different things. I'm certainly not saying you can't be a target , if that's what you want , then that's probably what your going to get.
But when you get the attention , how can you say I just wish everyone would leave me alone.
The first time I witnessed a gay couple , I was about 10 years old in upstate NY . My mother asked me to go into the gas station and pay for gas . I went in and while I'm waiting in line , these 2 guys dressed like circus performers , began to jam thier tongues down each other's throats . When they finished they began talking in what would be considered a " gay voice " and waving thier hands around like they had no control over thier wrists.
They obviously wanted to get people's attention. Well they got it . Some other customers noticed me (10 years old in my little league jersey) behind the 2 men and told them to knock it off , there was a kid behind them . One of the gay guys began to act like he was flirting with the man who told them to stop. Saying ohhh baby you want some too ? To which he punched the guy in the face.
Even at 10 years young , I realized this could have been avoided . The man that told them to stop , would have told any couple , gay or straight , to stop because there was a child around...
How do you know it was the first time you witnessed a gay couple. Maybe you had seen hundreds of gay couples before but they werent making out. Why not reach the same conclusion about hetero couples -- you had never seen one before until you saw a couple going to town on eachother?
Here , maybe this is a better way of explaining what I'm talking about.
Your calling out of work cause you have a fever/ cold/ Flu....do you call your boss and just say I'm feeling like crap today , or do you call with the scratchy I'm half dead voice , trying to sound stuffed up.
Not everyone tries to act like they are dying every time they are sick. But the ones that do are screaming," feel bad for me ". Having a fever has nothing to do with your throat , and your not dying.
Why do people have this preconceived notion that they have to act a certain way in order to make people believe they are something?
You are what you are , but you don't have to behave a certain way to prove it .
Here , maybe this is a better way of explaining what I'm talking about.
Your calling out of work cause you have a fever/ cold/ Flu....do you call your boss and just say I'm feeling like crap today , or do you call with the scratchy I'm half dead voice , trying to sound stuffed up.
Not everyone tries to act like they are dying every time they are sick. But the ones that do are screaming," feel bad for me ". Having a fever has nothing to do with your throat , and your not dying.
Why do people have this preconceived notion that they have to act a certain way in order to make people believe they are something?
You are what you are , but you don't have to behave a certain way to prove it .
Yep. You are what you are, and if what you are is a flamoyant gay guy- what then?
Ohhhhhhh!
I get it. Gay folks that act gay aren't acting that way because they're gay, they're acting that way because they want attention!
Your absolutely right. I should not assume that was the first time. But it was the first time I realized that the behavior ( which I believe is fake ) has consequences .
That probably wraps up MY personal thoughts on the subject . It's a FAKE behavior that can have a negative effect. So just be who you are , stop with the act , being gay does not mean that you have to talk or act a certain way ( a lot don't ) just like when your calling in sick , you don't have to act like your dying or fake cough.
When that ACT makes people uncomfortable or brings negative attention , then people will talk . Hence the " you can't behave that way and expect people to not have an opinion ."
I absolutely support gay rights , I just think there is a smoother road to getting there if 20% of your people don't make a spectacle out of them selves.
My opinions on this matter became stronger a few years ago ,when a lesbian friend of mine ( who acts like herself, not any particular group ) voiced HER opinion to me . Stating that those " attention whores" are making life more difficult for gay people and SHE believes that they are not even truly gay . Because being Gay doesn't change how you behave . That's an attention thing . She said its like people who are into punk rock . She's into it also ( another lesbian stereotype) but she says "you don't see me going around trying to see how high I can spike my blue Mohawk "
She loves her lifestyle the same as she loves her music , but to say those things should make you behave a certain way is foolish. She's the one that gave me the sick voice analogy . If your fake coughing , your probably not that sick.
I want to hang out in stores that adopt this policy. Someone gets to the cash register with a ton of crap Im going to yell out "FA----" and watch the dejected Chasier put all the stuff back
But it is true , and anytime I see someone trying real hard to ACT a certain way , I think of her beliefs and the frustration it causes her. Whatever people do , if it doesn't effect me , I could care less . But I have a bit more conviction on this subject because it does effect my friend.
"act" is to say "I'm out of the closet, and there's nothing you can do about it". And "act" is a very debatable term that you used. It sounds like you're ok with gay people as long as they stay in the closet.
Sure the "act" can be aggressive. But when you're a group of people that has been ostracized from society for centuries, you're going to gloat a little bit when it's finally acceptable to be yourself.
And btw, I sincerely doubt that that random dude behind you when you were 10 would've punched a straight couple in the face because they were kissing in front of you.
Your absolutely right. I should not assume that was the first time. But it was the first time I realized that the behavior ( which I believe is fake ) has consequences .
That probably wraps up MY personal thoughts on the subject . It's a FAKE behavior that can have a negative effect. So just be who you are , stop with the act , being gay does not mean that you have to talk or act a certain way ( a lot don't ) just like when your calling in sick , you don't have to act like your dying or fake cough.
When that ACT makes people uncomfortable or brings negative attention , then people will talk . Hence the " you can't behave that way and expect people to not have an opinion ."
I absolutely support gay rights , I just think there is a smoother road to getting there if 20% of your people don't make a spectacle out of them selves.
My opinions on this matter became stronger a few years ago ,when a lesbian friend of mine ( who acts like herself, not any particular group ) voiced HER opinion to me . Stating that those " attention whores" are making life more difficult for gay people and SHE believes that they are not even truly gay . Because being Gay doesn't change how you behave . That's an attention thing . She said its like people who are into punk rock . She's into it also ( another lesbian stereotype) but she says "you don't see me going around trying to see how high I can spike my blue Mohawk "
She loves her lifestyle the same as she loves her music , but to say those things should make you behave a certain way is foolish. She's the one that gave me the sick voice analogy . If your fake coughing , your probably not that sick.
Eh...so much self serving drivel. "Hey guys, I'm not against gay people...if I was, would I have a great lesbian friend? But they should stay in the fucking closet so they don't make me feel uncomfortable."
RE: One of the vessel's nephews is gay. He's 21 or so. Â
At Christmas this year I asked him how he 'came out' and if it was tough coming out to his family.
His mom and grandmother chimed in, "He didn't have to. We all knew he was gay before he did. We could tell by the time he was 5 or 6."
I wish I had known that he was just trying to get attention instead of just being who he was so that I could have pointed that out to them.
You sure he isn't faking being gay? I heard that some people fake being gay so they can act in an attention whore manner. The discrimination and potential for abuse is just added bonuses in playing a fake gay person.
But a question came up a couple of years ago at a restaurant I worked at. This Server was very openly gay. Like that' all he talked about. At first I just thought "Oh, it's good that he is so unashamed of being gay...guy's got great character". Then the more he talked about it, it just got boring until it was to the point that it was ALL he talked about. How every guest who didn't tip 20%, did so because he was gay. How whenever he got teased it was because his gayness intimidated the teaser.
Then he went to the manager and asked if he could come into work in drag every once in a while. Keep in mind that Brandon was 6'1" with a THICK beard. At first the manager, a lesbian btw, kinda chuckled. Then when she saw he was serious, she said that she didn't think it would be a good idea. When Brandon incredulously asked why not, she said that she didn't think that Robert (the owner) would approve. Plus that the guests wouldn't be too comfortable with it either. Brandon flipped. Said the owner was a homophobe and made a scene. He wasn't fired despite chewing out the manager on the floor for refusing a RIDICULOUS request, and we all knew why.
In Philly, there is a whole neighborhood called "The Gayborhood" and having bartended there with gay co-workers, not one of the places that are not advertised as a gay bar permits this practice.
So, for all of those DESTROYING anyone who tells gays to "act like normal people" how would you respond to my co-worker's situation? And how would you justify the treating a homosexual like Brandon differently than someone like myself?
Where do all these cockroach fucktards originate and how do they get elected to public office? I don't live an alternate lifestyle but why the fuck does anyone care who does? Leave people alone to live their lives.
i watched a view cnn clips about this, if you notice the people that were for this legislation were all over the ages of 45.. mostly grey hairs... give it 20-30 years and it won't matter. that generation will die off with there fucked up values.. hopefully their children will have a little more of an open mind.. if you think about this on a bigger scale, how can the republican party last, if they don't start adopting more modern values.. you can't tell me that's not in the back of their heads..
"Don't worry. As long as you look and act and dress just like us you'll be fine."
Look, there is a fairly solid libertarian argument against requiring businesses to be non-discriminatory in hiring and serving customers. But that isnt the law of the land, so to single out LGBTs as ok on the discrimination list is just mean spirited.
It doesn't stop anyone from filing a complaint and it doesn't stop anyone from bringing suit. It doesn't stop any court from finding illegal discrimination. It merely allows the opportunity to raise and prove the defense.
Now oppose it or not, that is your choice, but at least argue over the actual text. The descriptions of the bill in press reports are at best incomplete and at worst misleading.
Here is the actual bill text - ( New Window )
It appears highly unlikely that the lawyer, Matthew G. McLaughlin, can collect the 365,880 signatures of registered voters — 5 percent of the total who voted for governor in the last election — needed to put the initiative on the ballot. Even if he does, it seems even more unlikely that it would ever pass in this state. And even if it did, opponents said, it would almost certainly be thrown out by a judge.
But this episode has thrown a new and unwanted light on California’s historically permissive voter initiative system, created in the early 1900s at the height of the Progressive Era and today the system under which much of California law is enacted. It is voters, and not the Legislature, who have put into place major laws dealing with everything from property taxes to crime to Proposition 8, the 2008 initiative that banned same-sex marriage. That law was later overturned in the courts.
“This just shows how nuts and wrongheaded we are about direct democracy,” said Joe Mathews, a critic of this state’s governance system. “This points out a shameful, problematic thing. You can put anything on the ballot.”
Link - ( New Window )
It doesn't stop anyone from filing a complaint and it doesn't stop anyone from bringing suit. It doesn't stop any court from finding illegal discrimination. It merely allows the opportunity to raise and prove the defense.
Now oppose it or not, that is your choice, but at least argue over the actual text. The descriptions of the bill in press reports are at best incomplete and at worst misleading.
Here is the actual bill text - ( New Window )
You have a point, but the bill does give business owners a case for defense if/when they reject LGBTQ customers. Thus enabling them to discriminate (potentially) legally.
Why? So that they can ostracize them and drive them to depression and potential suicides?
Cannot understand a business turning away customers when margins are so close.
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LOS ANGELES — Even in a state known for its far-reaching and sometimes outlandish voter initiatives, the one proposed by a Huntington Beach lawyer seems stunning: the “Sodomite Suppression Act,” mandating, among other things, that any person who has sexual relations with someone of the same gender be “put to death by bullets to the head.”
It appears highly unlikely that the lawyer, Matthew G. McLaughlin, can collect the 365,880 signatures of registered voters — 5 percent of the total who voted for governor in the last election — needed to put the initiative on the ballot. Even if he does, it seems even more unlikely that it would ever pass in this state. And even if it did, opponents said, it would almost certainly be thrown out by a judge.
But this episode has thrown a new and unwanted light on California’s historically permissive voter initiative system, created in the early 1900s at the height of the Progressive Era and today the system under which much of California law is enacted. It is voters, and not the Legislature, who have put into place major laws dealing with everything from property taxes to crime to Proposition 8, the 2008 initiative that banned same-sex marriage. That law was later overturned in the courts.
“This just shows how nuts and wrongheaded we are about direct democracy,” said Joe Mathews, a critic of this state’s governance system. “This points out a shameful, problematic thing. You can put anything on the ballot.”
Link - ( New Window )
It's depressing.
Bared on the reasoning wouldn't the same businesses then have to deny service to adulterers, fornicators, thiefs, murderers, liars...etc...
I know. As someone, who grew up in California, it just boggles my mind.
And while legally they may have to let this play out, there are enough people to quash this despicable nonsense. And hopefully this asshole gets a swift kick from karma.
The previous governor, Mitch Daniels, and the State of Illinois pretty much took care of that.
Perhaps that's why Pentz has time to waste on crap like this.
But...
If you and your beliefs do not want to be a target , then you should not make yourself one.
The first time I witnessed a gay couple , I was about 10 years old in upstate NY . My mother asked me to go into the gas station and pay for gas . I went in and while I'm waiting in line , these 2 guys dressed like circus performers , began to jam thier tongues down each other's throats . When they finished they began talking in what would be considered a " gay voice " and waving thier hands around like they had no control over thier wrists.
They obviously wanted to get people's attention. Well they got it . Some other customers noticed me (10 years old in my little league jersey) behind the 2 men and told them to knock it off , there was a kid behind them . One of the gay guys began to act like he was flirting with the man who told them to stop. Saying ohhh baby you want some too ? To which he punched the guy in the face.
Even at 10 years young , I realized this could have been avoided . The man that told them to stop , would have told any couple , gay or straight , to stop because there was a child around. Then they instigated the man by trying to push his buttons . I also thought to myself , does the fact that you like other guys change your voice ? Change the way you dress ? Does it make you loud and obnoxious ? And does your wrist seem to flop all over the place with every statement you make ?
No, you do those things to make a statement , that you belong to a type of group . Almost like wearing your teams colors . Seems a lot like pulling up to Eagles stadium with a car covered in Giants streamers and bumper stickers , getting out of your car with your #80 jersey and yelling Cruuuuuuuuz!!!
Your painting a target on yourself . Does that Giants fan want to be left alone ? To live his life as a Giants fan ? Or is he trying to make a scene ?
Fast forward 20 years later and I'm living in Tampa . There was a Gay rights protest in Downtown . I didn't even hear about it on the news , so I wasnt aware that I should find a different route to get home. So stuck in traffic and watching this protest do circles around a courtyard in downtown , I noticed that 90% of the people were shirtless , the other 10% were lesbians . There were more men wearing makeup than the women that were there , and as the guys passed by some of them blowing kisses at myself and some other male drivers waiting in traffic. So , I couldn't help but to think........things never change.
Don't these people realize , they would get more respect and objective views of there protest if they had just showed up in what they came from work in ?
I for one would have been much more impressed and open to what ever they were protesting for if instead of seeing 2 drag queens shirtless covered in makeup, I saw a guy with his Taco Bell shirt holding hands with a guy in a suit . Instead I just said to myself "ohh boy , here we go "
But that's the point right , to be different , to make a scene . They realize it's not the relationship part that scares people , it's the behavior. So they continue to push it until people react. They don't want to be left alone , they don't want to conform ,to paint a target on themselves ....they want the attention, until it's inconvienent.
It's like having someone poke you with a stick over and over , then thier friends join in and they all think it's cute and laugh about it . But then when you hit one of them cause your sick of it , they cry and act like your the asshole .
Point is , we all have sticks , doesn't mean we have to poke people with them . Pun intended !
But seriously people will let gay people do whatever they want , the second they stop trying to rub everyone's face in it. Until then it will always be a problem.
But...
If you and your beliefs do not want to be a target , then you should not make yourself one.
The first time I witnessed a gay couple , I was about 10 years old in upstate NY . My mother asked me to go into the gas station and pay for gas . I went in and while I'm waiting in line , these 2 guys dressed like circus performers , began to jam thier tongues down each other's throats . When they finished they began talking in what would be considered a " gay voice " and waving thier hands around like they had no control over thier wrists.
They obviously wanted to get people's attention. Well they got it . Some other customers noticed me (10 years old in my little league jersey) behind the 2 men and told them to knock it off , there was a kid behind them . One of the gay guys began to act like he was flirting with the man who told them to stop. Saying ohhh baby you want some too ? To which he punched the guy in the face.
Even at 10 years young , I realized this could have been avoided . The man that told them to stop , would have told any couple , gay or straight , to stop because there was a child around. Then they instigated the man by trying to push his buttons . I also thought to myself , does the fact that you like other guys change your voice ? Change the way you dress ? Does it make you loud and obnoxious ? And does your wrist seem to flop all over the place with every statement you make ?
No, you do those things to make a statement , that you belong to a type of group . Almost like wearing your teams colors . Seems a lot like pulling up to Eagles stadium with a car covered in Giants streamers and bumper stickers , getting out of your car with your #80 jersey and yelling Cruuuuuuuuz!!!
Your painting a target on yourself . Does that Giants fan want to be left alone ? To live his life as a Giants fan ? Or is he trying to make a scene ?
Fast forward 20 years later and I'm living in Tampa . There was a Gay rights protest in Downtown . I didn't even hear about it on the news , so I wasnt aware that I should find a different route to get home. So stuck in traffic and watching this protest do circles around a courtyard in downtown , I noticed that 90% of the people were shirtless , the other 10% were lesbians . There were more men wearing makeup than the women that were there , and as the guys passed by some of them blowing kisses at myself and some other male drivers waiting in traffic. So , I couldn't help but to think........things never change.
Don't these people realize , they would get more respect and objective views of there protest if they had just showed up in what they came from work in ?
I for one would have been much more impressed and open to what ever they were protesting for if instead of seeing 2 drag queens shirtless covered in makeup, I saw a guy with his Taco Bell shirt holding hands with a guy in a suit . Instead I just said to myself "ohh boy , here we go "
But that's the point right , to be different , to make a scene . They realize it's not the relationship part that scares people , it's the behavior. So they continue to push it until people react. They don't want to be left alone , they don't want to conform ,to paint a target on themselves ....they want the attention, until it's inconvienent.
It's like having someone poke you with a stick over and over , then thier friends join in and they all think it's cute and laugh about it . But then when you hit one of them cause your sick of it , they cry and act like your the asshole .
Point is , we all have sticks , doesn't mean we have to poke people with them . Pun intended !
But seriously people will let gay people do whatever they want , the second they stop trying to rub everyone's face in it. Until then it will always be a problem.
Hey...I'm not a racist...but I'm a racist. Same shitty argument rationalized and masked in a shitty manner.
And you went down hill from the start:
Yes, being gay is a belief. So a gay couple walking into a restaurant with their adopted kids is them showing their beliefs and thus making them into a target.
Seriously, If I were you, I would stop while I'm way way behind.
or is that wrong?
or is that wrong?
Hey...but only those gays do eccentric things to draw attention to their beliefs...hence they make themselves into targets. At least that's what I learned recently.
If me and my brother walk into Applebee's with his son , should people assume we are gay ? I guarentee they won't . Because I'm not parading around with a gay "banner"or drawing attention to myself .
Your proving my point .
Once they settle down and start acting like the rest of us there won't be any trouble.
Excellent and well thought out post by The Catch.
If me and my brother walk into Applebee's with his son , should people assume we are gay ? I guarentee they won't . Because I'm not parading around with a gay "banner"or drawing attention to myself .
Your proving my point .
Proving what point? That you're a bigoted scumbag? Done.
If me and my brother walk into Applebee's with his son , should people assume we are gay ? I guarentee they won't . Because I'm not parading around with a gay "banner"or drawing attention to myself .
Your proving my point .
So if those two men decided to give each other loving looks and gave each other a normal kiss that any married couples give, that would be ok with you? Or should they just hide the fact that they're couple and make others think that they're just friends or brothers?
Either way, your attempt at trying to mask your homophobic nature is rather weak. So yes, you're proving my point regarding "I'm not a homophobe, but I really am" about you.
I don't think he should be banned at all. And his beliefs are his own, no matter how jacked up it is. However, if he voices it in such a cowardly manner, he should expect nothing less than a total ridiculing of his character here. Hence, my advice for him to just stop while he was way way behind.
This too.
What does Jewish guy acting all Jewy supposed to mean anyway? Are you implying there's a specific way there supposed to act?
Thought it was obvious.
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and these shopkeepers who raise this defense all have gay children.
Why? So that they can ostracize them and drive them to depression and potential suicides?
I was thinking more along the lines that this might be the only way for these ignoramuses and/or bigots to realize how wrong they are and that maybe having someone so close to them be "different" will help them come to accept and treat gay people equally.
It's a digression but since you brought up Iran...
The AP headline that just came across my phone says "US is considering letting Iran run hundreds of centrifuges in a fortified, underground bunker...". WTF? Even you have to look a little askance at that, right?
And I believe that if these issues were improved there would be less racism. I see it as a cycle. I believe most people to be good and that racism on it's face is simply stupid since we are all the same beings.
What does Jewish guy acting all Jewy supposed to mean anyway? Are you implying there's a specific way there supposed to act?
Yes...but as TheCatch seems to imply, that's the way of the gay people and their beliefs. They should just not act gay and stuff in public then people won't think that they're gay, which is what we all want, amirite?
Or do you usually just make assumptions to try and prove a point ?
Cannot understand a business turning away customers when margins are so close.
Florida, like California, has citizens amendments to to constitution. So something that has become a constitutional amendment by voter initiative is the law of the land. What sounded like a good idea a few years ago becomes not so much today. The state can't fix it because it's in the state constitutional. Why, until earlier this year and a federal judge ruled the amendment unconstitutional for the entire state, they were forced to let it play out in the courts or get taken to court themselves for not upholding the state constitution. Voter initiatives are a double edged sword as societies evolve.
The process just has to playout.
Quote:
In comment 12204375 PaulBlakeTSU said:
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and these shopkeepers who raise this defense all have gay children.
Why? So that they can ostracize them and drive them to depression and potential suicides?
I was thinking more along the lines that this might be the only way for these ignoramuses and/or bigots to realize how wrong they are and that maybe having someone so close to them be "different" will help them come to accept and treat gay people equally.
But many won't. Many will shun their kids or try to "ungay" their kids. Not all parents are even that openminded when it comes to their kids.
Or do you usually just make assumptions to try and prove a point ?
Don't give a fuck what race or gender you are. Homophobes come in many different colors and can be men or women. But keep talking. You're doing a great job of stamping the "I'm a bigot" sign on your forehead like a scarlet letter.
How often do you see an episode of Queer as Folk break out at the local 7-11?
He would have done a lot better if he had advocated "No PDA" legislation.
There's no GWG-like smoking gun homophobic content in Catch's post whatsoever, so I think asking for further clarification before busting out the pitchforks is a more appropriate response.
I understand this is difficult for certain hotheaded posters from LA but every moment in opportunity to improve oneself.
And you missed this gem, right?
TheCatch : 1:35 pm : link : reply
A gay couple walking there adopted child into a resturant does NOT make a scene . Well , because who is to know if they are just brothers or sisters walking in with one of there kids .
If me and my brother walk into Applebee's with his son , should people assume we are gay ? I guarentee they won't . Because I'm not parading around with a gay "banner"or drawing attention to myself .
Your proving my point .
I like you, RB...but you're missing the "they should act like the rest of us, then they won't be targets" BS. People can act any way they want as long as it doesn't hurt anyone. To discriminate against others for being different has nothing to do with standards as much as wanting to not have to look at things that make you uncomfortable.
We'll agree to disagree on what TheCatch meant, but I stand by that he's a cowardly homophobe bigot. Ah well.
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won't recognize Gay marriage. Supreme Court already ruled on it and these states still want to fight it. WTF - waste of taxpayer money.
Cannot understand a business turning away customers when margins are so close.
Florida, like California, has citizens amendments to to constitution. So something that has become a constitutional amendment by voter initiative is the law of the land. What sounded like a good idea a few years ago becomes not so much today. The state can't fix it because it's in the state constitutional. Why, until earlier this year and a federal judge ruled the amendment unconstitutional for the entire state, they were forced to let it play out in the courts or get taken to court themselves for not upholding the state constitution. Voter initiatives are a double edged sword as societies evolve.
The process just has to playout.
ctc you are so right on these voter amendments in our beloved state. Really bad idea. The state house cannot amend them like a normal law and we are stuck with the unintended consequences.
There's no GWG-like smoking gun homophobic content in Catch's post whatsoever, so I think asking for further clarification before busting out the pitchforks is a more appropriate response.
I understand this is difficult for certain hotheaded posters from LA but every moment in opportunity to improve oneself.
Haha...I'll take that into advisement. But I stand by my own interpretation. You do what you have to do.
There's no GWG-like smoking gun homophobic content in Catch's post whatsoever, so I think asking for further clarification before busting out the pitchforks is a more appropriate response.
I understand this is difficult for certain hotheaded posters from LA but every moment in opportunity to improve oneself.
There's no homophobic content in Catch's post?? Funniest fucking thing I've read all day.
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That's not how I read it. His beef appears to be with certain behaviors that most people would find tasteless no matter who was doing them. I'm a big believer in equal rights for everyone but you have to hold them to the same standards, too.
How often do you see an episode of Queer as Folk break out at the local 7-11?
Not often but the point remains. Why? Will that be your next photo shop? Don't forget Davidson.
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That's not how I read it. His beef appears to be with certain behaviors that most people would find tasteless no matter who was doing them. I'm a big believer in equal rights for everyone but you have to hold them to the same standards, too.
And you missed this gem, right?
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Ohhh stop
TheCatch : 1:35 pm : link : reply
A gay couple walking there adopted child into a resturant does NOT make a scene . Well , because who is to know if they are just brothers or sisters walking in with one of there kids .
If me and my brother walk into Applebee's with his son , should people assume we are gay ? I guarentee they won't . Because I'm not parading around with a gay "banner"or drawing attention to myself .
Your proving my point .
I like you, RB...but you're missing the "they should act like the rest of us, then they won't be targets" BS. People can act any way they want as long as it doesn't hurt anyone. To discriminate against others for being different has nothing to do with standards as much as wanting to not have to look at things that make you uncomfortable.
We'll agree to disagree on what TheCatch meant, but I stand by that he's a cowardly homophobe bigot. Ah well.
(not disagreeing for the sake of disagreeing)
I disagree. I think you can impose certain behavioral standards on your customers. (And yeah, I know this contradicts my last post). For example, I totally and enthusiastically endorse dress codes for restaurants and would support a "No children allowed" rule at many places if it were feasible.
There's no GWG-like smoking gun homophobic content in Catch's post whatsoever, so I think asking for further clarification before busting out the pitchforks is a more appropriate response.
I understand this is difficult for certain hotheaded posters from LA but every moment in opportunity to improve oneself.
I'm not saying thecatch had offensive language or not, or he's any -ist or not. But I agree people throw the racist label out around here constantly and freely.
use the word thug, you're a racist. Disagree with them on evidence in a trial, you're a racist.
Some people obviously are and they've proven that and deserve it.
I was reading John Grisham's latest novel Gray Mountain and he uses the word thug multiple times to describe some people (of unknown race but I assume white) hired by the oil companies to protect their demolition activities in the West Virginia mountains.
My first thought was, huh, I wonder if BBI realizes John Grisham is racist.
You know nothing about me and I won't waste the time trying to prove who I am , that's not what this is about.
What is Jewy anyway ? Or blackish ? Your proving my point even further .
There are no preconceived or natural behaviors , only ones that people WANT to act like to associate themselves with a certain group,and THAT is my point .
Also , of course there is no problem with a loving glance or kiss , but does it piss you off when you out with your family and a man and woman start making out in the booth next to you.
Of course it does , and you would probably say something or ask the manager to do something. But if it's a Gay couple , you better not even have an opinion ! They have rights too .
Do they have any more rights than the straight couple ? Why is it not the same ? What's good for one should be good for all.
I still don't consider this gang-up worthy. I think explaining to Catch the error of his ways is a better course of action. He doesn't come accross to me like a closed-minded, unreformable dickbag like GWG.
Ignore and move on.
An incident that probably never even happened. Just sayin'...
I believe that racism is so stupid on its face these days, that you have to look at the whole picture.
Very few gay people actually conduct themselves in flamboyant manners in gay pride parades. But to use that as some kind of a defense for this bill or any other discriminatory bills shows one's own agenda, which borders on homophobic bigotry.
Everyone is entitled to their own beliefs, but others are also entitled to call out cowardly bigots in a knee jerk manner, especially when they double down and remove any doubt.
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opinions of gay people for the rest of his life. The behaviors he outlined that were so outlandish, and got his trousers in a bunch is men being shirtless, speaking in 'gay voices', and limp wrists. So yeah, I think he's a bigot.
An incident that probably never even happened. Just sayin'...
That's possible but then you're saying he's lying, which is assuming a lot.
Exactly
Very few gay people actually conduct themselves in flamboyant manners in gay pride parades. But to use that as some kind of a defense for this bill or any other discriminatory bills shows one's own agenda, which borders on homophobic bigotry.
Everyone is entitled to their own beliefs, but others are also entitled to call out cowardly bigots in a knee jerk manner, especially when they double down and remove any doubt.
Yep.
What he began with was, "gay people shouldn't act gay"- which has now turned to simply PDA's...which would be taken care of with a law about PDA's- and nothing to do with gay or straight.
But fuck Applebee's and their gay orgies. Seriously.
They should be able to act however they want as long as they're not breaking any laws just like any other citizen of the US.
There is not law about broadcasting that you're gay via your behavior (as long as it's within the law).
What Catch is suggesting is that gay people should change their legal behavior so that people won't target them.
It is exactly what gay rights advocates fight for- to be allowed to be themselves without fear of being 'targeted'.
It doesn't matter if you think the way they talk or their 'floppy wrists' are offensive or distasteful.
Telling them to essentially stay in the closet is bullshit.
You can't google images?
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To imply that if gay people would just act normally and let people guess whether they were gay or not instead of advertising that they are by carrying around "the gay banner" wherever they go is both insulting to millions of gay people and those, who want them to live their lives without discrimination.
Very few gay people actually conduct themselves in flamboyant manners in gay pride parades. But to use that as some kind of a defense for this bill or any other discriminatory bills shows one's own agenda, which borders on homophobic bigotry.
Everyone is entitled to their own beliefs, but others are also entitled to call out cowardly bigots in a knee jerk manner, especially when they double down and remove any doubt.
Yep.
What he began with was, "gay people shouldn't act gay"- which has now turned to simply PDA's...which would be taken care of with a law about PDA's- and nothing to do with gay or straight.
But fuck Applebee's and their gay orgies. Seriously.
I would so vote like a Chicagoan for a law banning PDA's.
and suckered me into seeing if there truly were images.
I have no deep rooted issue , I'm speaking about behavior and the result of it . Good or bad . If you read what I wrote , I stated this could have been avoided.
Like when the Giants fan goes to Philly. If someone threw a football at him when he was tailgating or threw a beer at him in the stadium , nobody here would think twice about . We would think he was very brave and a little stupid for behaving that way. It would be headline news if the guy was gay and these things happened.
There is BEING yourself and there's painting a TARGET on yourself.
Two completely different things. I'm certainly not saying you can't be a target , if that's what you want , then that's probably what your going to get.
But when you get the attention , how can you say I just wish everyone would leave me alone.
The first time I witnessed a gay couple , I was about 10 years old in upstate NY . My mother asked me to go into the gas station and pay for gas . I went in and while I'm waiting in line , these 2 guys dressed like circus performers , began to jam thier tongues down each other's throats . When they finished they began talking in what would be considered a " gay voice " and waving thier hands around like they had no control over thier wrists.
They obviously wanted to get people's attention. Well they got it . Some other customers noticed me (10 years old in my little league jersey) behind the 2 men and told them to knock it off , there was a kid behind them . One of the gay guys began to act like he was flirting with the man who told them to stop. Saying ohhh baby you want some too ? To which he punched the guy in the face.
Even at 10 years young , I realized this could have been avoided . The man that told them to stop , would have told any couple , gay or straight , to stop because there was a child around...
How do you know it was the first time you witnessed a gay couple. Maybe you had seen hundreds of gay couples before but they werent making out. Why not reach the same conclusion about hetero couples -- you had never seen one before until you saw a couple going to town on eachother?
Your problem seems to be PDAs. Which are gross.
Here , maybe this is a better way of explaining what I'm talking about.
Your calling out of work cause you have a fever/ cold/ Flu....do you call your boss and just say I'm feeling like crap today , or do you call with the scratchy I'm half dead voice , trying to sound stuffed up.
Not everyone tries to act like they are dying every time they are sick. But the ones that do are screaming," feel bad for me ". Having a fever has nothing to do with your throat , and your not dying.
Why do people have this preconceived notion that they have to act a certain way in order to make people believe they are something?
You are what you are , but you don't have to behave a certain way to prove it .
Here , maybe this is a better way of explaining what I'm talking about.
Your calling out of work cause you have a fever/ cold/ Flu....do you call your boss and just say I'm feeling like crap today , or do you call with the scratchy I'm half dead voice , trying to sound stuffed up.
Not everyone tries to act like they are dying every time they are sick. But the ones that do are screaming," feel bad for me ". Having a fever has nothing to do with your throat , and your not dying.
Why do people have this preconceived notion that they have to act a certain way in order to make people believe they are something?
You are what you are , but you don't have to behave a certain way to prove it .
Yep. You are what you are, and if what you are is a flamoyant gay guy- what then?
Ohhhhhhh!
I get it. Gay folks that act gay aren't acting that way because they're gay, they're acting that way because they want attention!
Got it.
-TheCatch
That probably wraps up MY personal thoughts on the subject . It's a FAKE behavior that can have a negative effect. So just be who you are , stop with the act , being gay does not mean that you have to talk or act a certain way ( a lot don't ) just like when your calling in sick , you don't have to act like your dying or fake cough.
When that ACT makes people uncomfortable or brings negative attention , then people will talk . Hence the " you can't behave that way and expect people to not have an opinion ."
I absolutely support gay rights , I just think there is a smoother road to getting there if 20% of your people don't make a spectacle out of them selves.
My opinions on this matter became stronger a few years ago ,when a lesbian friend of mine ( who acts like herself, not any particular group ) voiced HER opinion to me . Stating that those " attention whores" are making life more difficult for gay people and SHE believes that they are not even truly gay . Because being Gay doesn't change how you behave . That's an attention thing . She said its like people who are into punk rock . She's into it also ( another lesbian stereotype) but she says "you don't see me going around trying to see how high I can spike my blue Mohawk "
She loves her lifestyle the same as she loves her music , but to say those things should make you behave a certain way is foolish. She's the one that gave me the sick voice analogy . If your fake coughing , your probably not that sick.
Every person that doesn't like a specific group of people always has a friend in that group.
That's better than him eating dick in line at a gas station I guess though.
Sure the "act" can be aggressive. But when you're a group of people that has been ostracized from society for centuries, you're going to gloat a little bit when it's finally acceptable to be yourself.
And btw, I sincerely doubt that that random dude behind you when you were 10 would've punched a straight couple in the face because they were kissing in front of you.
His mom and grandmother chimed in, "He didn't have to. We all knew he was gay before he did. We could tell by the time he was 5 or 6."
I wish I had known that he was just trying to get attention instead of just being who he was so that I could have pointed that out to them.
That probably wraps up MY personal thoughts on the subject . It's a FAKE behavior that can have a negative effect. So just be who you are , stop with the act , being gay does not mean that you have to talk or act a certain way ( a lot don't ) just like when your calling in sick , you don't have to act like your dying or fake cough.
When that ACT makes people uncomfortable or brings negative attention , then people will talk . Hence the " you can't behave that way and expect people to not have an opinion ."
I absolutely support gay rights , I just think there is a smoother road to getting there if 20% of your people don't make a spectacle out of them selves.
My opinions on this matter became stronger a few years ago ,when a lesbian friend of mine ( who acts like herself, not any particular group ) voiced HER opinion to me . Stating that those " attention whores" are making life more difficult for gay people and SHE believes that they are not even truly gay . Because being Gay doesn't change how you behave . That's an attention thing . She said its like people who are into punk rock . She's into it also ( another lesbian stereotype) but she says "you don't see me going around trying to see how high I can spike my blue Mohawk "
She loves her lifestyle the same as she loves her music , but to say those things should make you behave a certain way is foolish. She's the one that gave me the sick voice analogy . If your fake coughing , your probably not that sick.
Eh...so much self serving drivel. "Hey guys, I'm not against gay people...if I was, would I have a great lesbian friend? But they should stay in the fucking closet so they don't make me feel uncomfortable."
His mom and grandmother chimed in, "He didn't have to. We all knew he was gay before he did. We could tell by the time he was 5 or 6."
I wish I had known that he was just trying to get attention instead of just being who he was so that I could have pointed that out to them.
You sure he isn't faking being gay? I heard that some people fake being gay so they can act in an attention whore manner. The discrimination and potential for abuse is just added bonuses in playing a fake gay person.
why are we (myself included) feeding him?
Then he went to the manager and asked if he could come into work in drag every once in a while. Keep in mind that Brandon was 6'1" with a THICK beard. At first the manager, a lesbian btw, kinda chuckled. Then when she saw he was serious, she said that she didn't think it would be a good idea. When Brandon incredulously asked why not, she said that she didn't think that Robert (the owner) would approve. Plus that the guests wouldn't be too comfortable with it either. Brandon flipped. Said the owner was a homophobe and made a scene. He wasn't fired despite chewing out the manager on the floor for refusing a RIDICULOUS request, and we all knew why.
In Philly, there is a whole neighborhood called "The Gayborhood" and having bartended there with gay co-workers, not one of the places that are not advertised as a gay bar permits this practice.
So, for all of those DESTROYING anyone who tells gays to "act like normal people" how would you respond to my co-worker's situation? And how would you justify the treating a homosexual like Brandon differently than someone like myself?
Not trying to start anything, I'm just curious as to when it is no longer "being yourself" and actual unacceptable behavior
why are we (myself included) feeding him?
I've been on this site for over 15 years , changed my name when the site got hacked .