for display only
Big Blue Interactive The Corner Forum  
Back to the Corner

Archived Thread

Concerned that we won't get a chance at Cooper, White

yatqb : 3/26/2015 12:19 pm
or Scherff.

My thinking is that there are eight players who will either go before 9 or whom we might definitely be pleased with at 9: Winston, Mariota, Williams, White, Cooper, Beasley, Fowler, Scherff.

Another player who might be taken before 9 is Shelton, and if Gregory hadn't failed his drug test he'd have been on this list as well.

I'm hoping that someone above us takes one of Shelton, Gregory, Parker, La'el Collins, Peat, Dupree, Ray or Waynes, because I'm not crazy about any of these guys at 9.
Pages: 1 2 <<Prev | Show All |
The Giants will take  
blueblood : 3/26/2015 1:42 pm : link
the highest rated player.. unless they get a good offer to move down.. which could happen if Mariotta is still on the board..
I hope the Giants  
djm : 3/26/2015 1:47 pm : link
love one or two of the pass-rushers and they take him at 9.

djm  
JonC : 3/26/2015 1:50 pm : link
me too.
djm...JonC  
Torrag : 3/26/2015 1:54 pm : link
Me too but I'm not sure who that could be at this point. I think we agree Beasley and Fowler will be gone. The darkhorse for me was Gregory but that's not happening now. Ray and Dupree don't carry a #9 grade for me. If the Giants pick one of them I'm on board but inside I'd be worried...
no argument  
JonC : 3/26/2015 1:59 pm : link
though I would like to see Dupree graded high on their board. Pass rusher doesn't appear a great option at #9.
I do think that DE does need to be addressed early.  
LI NHB : 3/26/2015 2:07 pm : link
Damontre hasn't had the impact that you expect out of a 3rd round pick (yet) and JPP isn't 100% certain to be retained after this year. Need to bolster the ranks with youth to go along with the veteran FA signings.

I want Fowler badly. Slip to 9 pleassssse.
I am shocked  
Amtoft : 3/26/2015 2:10 pm : link
that people who know anything about La'el Collins and not see a stud. I just don't get how people can think he isn't worth the 9th pick in the draft. I mean I have difference of opinions with people, but what do people seem to see that I don't that brings down his value. The kid is amazing and I would ecstatic to get him. Without QBs I have him as the forth player in this draft
RE: LI many here have Cooper as the clear cut #1 WR  
Amtoft : 3/26/2015 2:10 pm : link
In comment 12204574 Torrag said:
Quote:
He is to me. White is a top ten prospect but Cooper is the #2 player overall imo.


+1
we may be picking 8th  
stoneman : 3/26/2015 2:12 pm : link
if ATL gets their draft pick forfeited.
Amtoft  
JonC : 3/26/2015 2:14 pm : link
I'm not sure Collins will be viewed as a definitive upgrade from Pugh. He's a bit undersized for what they typically go for at tackle, and with Pugh onboard you've got two somewhat undersized technicians who may well not be well suited to tackle.

I think we can get a better player at #9, and better OG value at #40, for example.
RE: we may be picking 8th  
Amtoft : 3/26/2015 2:17 pm : link
In comment 12204746 stoneman said:
Quote:
if ATL gets their draft pick forfeited.


ATL is not going to lose their #1 pick for piping in crowd noise. At worst I would expect a 2nd rounder, but more likely a 3rd or 4th
if they want OL at #9  
JonC : 3/26/2015 2:17 pm : link
I'd rather it be Scherff if he can play T, or Peat. Draft the talent and value.
RE: I am shocked  
X : 3/26/2015 2:22 pm : link
In comment 12204735 Amtoft said:
Quote:
that people who know anything about La'el Collins and not see a stud. I just don't get how people can think he isn't worth the 9th pick in the draft. I mean I have difference of opinions with people, but what do people seem to see that I don't that brings down his value. The kid is amazing and I would ecstatic to get him. Without QBs I have him as the forth player in this draft


I'm no draft guru but love Collins from watching a lot of SEC games. I would be very happy with him.
Amtoft  
Torrag : 3/26/2015 2:29 pm : link
Collins has his fans here. He'd be in the mix for me but ideally in the 12-16 range if we trade down. He has strong fundamentals and footwork, plays with a mean streak and he was successful in the SEC. On the flip side is how he'll project at the next level. His athletic testing barring his 40 was average to below average. To compare for example Scherff ran a 7.07 3-cone vs 7.7 for Collins. His arm length and playing weight are also run of the mill. Most see his future kicking inside to OG. I don't love the Justin Pugh comp as imo Collins is a power player moreso than Pugh.
agree he plays with more power than Pugh  
JonC : 3/26/2015 2:31 pm : link
but my point was moreso that I see him and Pugh as best suited to OG, or better suited there than RT. Imo. A trade down would mitigate some of my hesitation with Collins, but I still think we'd need a legit RT.
RE: Amtoft  
Amtoft : 3/26/2015 2:31 pm : link
In comment 12204759 JonC said:
Quote:
I'm not sure Collins will be viewed as a definitive upgrade from Pugh. He's a bit undersized for what they typically go for at tackle, and with Pugh onboard you've got two somewhat undersized technicians who may well not be well suited to tackle.

I think we can get a better player at #9, and better OG value at #40, for example.


Hmmm... That is interesting because Collins and Pugh are not really alike. Besides the same height Collins has over an inch longer arms. He is also way more powerful in run blocking than Push by far. He would be a hugh upgrade at RT IMO where you can move Pugh inside. I am not even sure Collins can't play LT. If you go watch some of him he is a dominate player playing against the best DL in college football. Can you put Collins at LG day one and he is a beast yes you can. Can you put him at RT day one and he is just as much a beast yes you can. You can't say that about many OTs in this draft. Scherff and Collins are the best OL by far. Just because they would dominate at OG doesn't mean they aren't good OTs. Getting an OG later in the draft means you got an OG not an OT. After those 2 then Peat and Clemmings probably have the most potential to play LT although I have them below Collins in that regard as well. Flowers is probably the next best RT/OG prospect and then you have a few OGs like Tre Jackson and Lake Tomlinson both of who really are pure OGs. Don't get me wrong I really like Tre Jackson, but Collins and Scherff aren't just OGs. There is a big difference in that.


our O-line certainly needs an infusion of toughness  
Torrag : 3/26/2015 2:32 pm : link
We don't get after the defense like we used to. Hopefully we get it in this draft.
Amtoft  
JonC : 3/26/2015 2:36 pm : link
I see your points, where we differ is I just don't love Pugh or Collins at RT. I want more from the #9 pick, Scherff would deliver the more.
RE: Amtoft  
LI NHB : 3/26/2015 2:37 pm : link
In comment 12204826 JonC said:
Quote:
I see your points, where we differ is I just don't love Pugh or Collins at RT. I want more from the #9 pick, Scherff would deliver the more.


I miss Rich Seubert…*tear*
RE: Amtoft  
Amtoft : 3/26/2015 2:38 pm : link
In comment 12204800 Torrag said:
Quote:
Collins has his fans here. He'd be in the mix for me but ideally in the 12-16 range if we trade down. He has strong fundamentals and footwork, plays with a mean streak and he was successful in the SEC. On the flip side is how he'll project at the next level. His athletic testing barring his 40 was average to below average. To compare for example Scherff ran a 7.07 3-cone vs 7.7 for Collins. His arm length and playing weight are also run of the mill. Most see his future kicking inside to OG. I don't love the Justin Pugh comp as imo Collins is a power player moreso than Pugh.


3 cone is nice.... It shows what kind of hips he has and such. I don't think it is that big of a deal though. 3 cone means more to me for CBs... Then Safeties.. WRs.. RBs.. LBs.. etc down the line. It is very rare for a OL to swing and turn like that. What they need is good slide with their feet which is different. His feet aren't perfect for LT, but I think he could play it. I am almost positive he would be a beast at OG and at RT. He played LT against the conference that is highly regarded as having the absolute best DL and was dominate. Not good, but dominate.
RE: Amtoft  
Amtoft : 3/26/2015 2:42 pm : link
In comment 12204826 JonC said:
Quote:
I see your points, where we differ is I just don't love Pugh or Collins at RT. I want more from the #9 pick, Scherff would deliver the more.


I actually don't like Pugh at RT because he isn't a dominate run blocker. Where do you put Pugh then if you don't like him at RT?
Pugh's best position is LT  
Torrag : 3/26/2015 2:45 pm : link
His power game isn't up to excelling at RT or OG imo. He can play there but it's not a perfect fit.
I know that I've drunk the Kool-AId  
Bill L : 3/26/2015 2:49 pm : link
because if White and Cooper are gone, I'm taking Parker.
RE: Pugh's best position is LT  
Amtoft : 3/26/2015 2:50 pm : link
In comment 12204851 Torrag said:
Quote:
His power game isn't up to excelling at RT or OG imo. He can play there but it's not a perfect fit.


I think his best fit is LG. He has such good movement which is what I like out of my LGs... He pass protection would scare me a little on the Left side, but I could put him there if Beatty goes down... But even then my point was if you move him to LT or LG then who plays RT next year? The OG people want to take in the second round?
Pugh will play where he needs to  
Torrag : 3/26/2015 2:54 pm : link
He's versatile. I still see his best position as LT where he would be Beatty's equal at worst imo. If we draft an OT he can play LG. If we draft a LG he stays at RT. What matters is upgrading the talent and physicality of the group as a whole.
not sure why the word concerned  
hitdog42 : 3/26/2015 2:55 pm : link
is used...
we will get either a very good OL or a very good DE if we don't get the WR...
so we will improve positions where we don't have a pro bowl guy on his rookie contract for the next 3 yrs...
that's not a bad thing...
and there are many good WR for the 2nd round... where many teams are able to find good WRs
I'd put Pugh at LG  
JonC : 3/26/2015 3:01 pm : link
which is why I hesitate drafting Collins for RT, not sold he's an upgrade worthy of #9 overall.
RE: I'd put Pugh at LG  
Amtoft : 3/26/2015 3:18 pm : link
In comment 12204884 JonC said:
Quote:
which is why I hesitate drafting Collins for RT, not sold he's an upgrade worthy of #9 overall.


Ok so you moved Pugh over to LG... Who is your RT? You aren't getting a RT that is projected to start in the second round unless Flowers drops some how. I don't see that happening. Maybe a Donovan Smith or DJ Humphries can come in and play, but more likely if you pass on Scherff and Collins then Pugh is your RT and you draft a LG with the next pick. Pugh or Beatty go down who is the OTs? Collins gives much better versatility along your line while upgrading the RT position... IMO. Collins is a beast and dominate player. Assuming he doesn't bust he will be a 10 year player for us.
I'd pick Scherff or Peat  
JonC : 3/26/2015 3:21 pm : link
.
I just feel like there will be a lot of angry people  
LakeGeorgeGiant : 3/26/2015 3:26 pm : link
around here on draft day. Many are hot for a WR at 9 and while I would be ok with that I only see it happening if Cooper falls. White would surprise me and Parker would shock the hell out of me.
RE: I'd pick Scherff or Peat  
Amtoft : 3/26/2015 3:27 pm : link
In comment 12204915 JonC said:
Quote:
.


Ahhh got yeah.
RE: RE: I'd pick Scherff or Peat  
JonC : 3/26/2015 3:28 pm : link
In comment 12204923 Amtoft said:
Quote:
In comment 12204915 JonC said:


Quote:


.



Ahhh got yeah.
woops  
JonC : 3/26/2015 3:29 pm : link
The more I run mocks, the more it looks like Scherff or Peat at #9. WR targets should be gone, the edge rushers that I could them taking other than Dupree probably gone. Leaves the big moose, which I'm ok with.
RE: I just feel like there will be a lot of angry people  
Amtoft : 3/26/2015 3:30 pm : link
In comment 12204920 LakeGeorgeGiant said:
Quote:
around here on draft day. Many are hot for a WR at 9 and while I would be ok with that I only see it happening if Cooper falls. White would surprise me and Parker would shock the hell out of me.


I agree... Just like they were last year and the year before that. Just like they claimed OBJ to be a bust because he was hurt and now he is the greatest player of all time. Every extreme that can happen... Will happen.
RE: woops  
Amtoft : 3/26/2015 3:33 pm : link
In comment 12204926 JonC said:
Quote:
The more I run mocks, the more it looks like Scherff or Peat at #9. WR targets should be gone, the edge rushers that I could them taking other than Dupree probably gone. Leaves the big moose, which I'm ok with.


I like Collins more, but not by much over Scherff... I would be very happy with him also. Peat scares me. After he declares the next 3 months are the most important in his entire life and didn't put in the work? Players like that scary me. Talent wise he is probably the best LT prospect int he draft, but I am not sure I touch him at pick 9.
Scherff's 3 cone  
Emil : 3/26/2015 3:39 pm : link
made me get on board with selecting him at #9. My top 5 for the first round are in order of preference

1. Beasley (won't be there)
2. Cooper (probably won't be there)
3. Scherrf (good chance)
4. La'el Collins (a reach perhaps)
5. Owamagbe Odighizuwa (his numbers say he is worth it)
Collins over Scherff  
RAIN : 3/26/2015 3:50 pm : link
for me. His kick slide has more balance and he has more shock in his hands. Scherff has the nicer combine numbers.. but balance as we learned with Brewer.. is key. Collins looks more like a tackle to me.

Overall with Parker.. we have the ideal complement to Mr. Beckham Jr. The receiver class.. because it is strong could stand with any. The oline.. not so much.

Agree with the pass-rushers.. lots of talent with lots of warts.
...  
yatqb : 3/26/2015 4:26 pm : link
Torrag, yup, I'm aware that Brown is moving up boards. He's damn good, and even with the addition of Ellis, I think this would be a worthwhile pick.

Bill T, I haven't seen anyone from any of the mocks listing Parker as ahead of either Cooper or White, so I'd be surprised if he went earlier than them.
We won't get a chance to draft Cooper  
illmatic : 3/26/2015 4:29 pm : link
and White will probably be gone too considering the success of last year's top rookie WRs. Scherff will likely be there though. It's a bit high for a guard.
Bill T, I also see him as more of a long strider. But you  
yatqb : 3/26/2015 4:41 pm : link
can't argue with his production, and he reminds me of Dez Bryant in terms of how well he goes up for balls. He certainly wouldn't be a terrible consolation prize.
Peat  
DavidinBMNY : 3/26/2015 5:02 pm : link
I don't want Peat. From what I've been hearing he's not that good. And he didn't ascend this year from last year. He basically was flat.

I think the player the Giants are targeting is someone we're not thinking about.
RE: djm  
gidiefor : Mod : 3/26/2015 5:10 pm : link
In comment 12204679 JonC said:
Quote:
me too.


Me three!!

But I'm sure I'd be excited by whoever they pick - we are going to get a very good football player at 9
Cooper is definately gone before Giants pick  
ZogZerg : 3/26/2015 6:20 pm : link
..
Am I the only one who don't see  
map7711 : 3/26/2015 7:06 pm : link
The Giants picking another WR number 1? There are more pressing needs right now. There are only so many balls to go around. You need OL to be successful. To pick another WR is just overkill. Just my opinion.
I often hear things like  
Mike in Boston : 3/26/2015 7:14 pm : link
"I'd like him at 12, but not at 9". That implies a precision of evaluating both players' future prospects and other teams' GM's likely behavior that is wholly illusory.
i actually hope both WR are gone  
msh : 3/26/2015 8:39 pm : link
so they dont try and be too smart for thier own good i want either a top notch DE or OL at 9 they need to be stronger running the ball and tougher on defence particularly against the run and bringing pressure on QB, where i hope spags will make them better against the run as he did last time he was DC

they have enough weapons already possibly the best trio of WR in the league assuming cruz comes back 100% (and im not worried on that score), they also have donnell and now vereen to throw the ball short to as well thats alot of choices they also have harris to add some speed deep

my preference is an OL la'el collins is my choice i think he has better flexibility and best upside of all the OL available at 9 and prefer him to shreff at this point (i incidentally think shreff goes before 9 anyway) and then add davis or similar in round 2
I think that's the right assumption to make, and if you want one of  
BlueLou : 3/27/2015 1:18 am : link
those two so bad you move up. Or, have a real good review of Parker to see if he doesn't fit the bill as a stud WR worthy at 9 overall. Or plan on picking another player at another position.

If one of those top two WR fall to 9 then, you jump on the opportunity, or see if you have a trade down partner....

I wouldn't be upset if they grabbed Sherff or Dupree or Gregory at 9, or even Melvin Gordon. Not to mention there's a chance Mariotta slips and someone wants to trade up to nab him...
Cooper will be gone  
blueblood : 3/27/2015 1:25 am : link
and possibly White as well. I think the plan is to beef up the OL and DL.. they have to do it..
RE: I'm hoping we take Randy Gregory  
mrvax : 3/27/2015 7:24 am : link
In comment 12204446 WillieYoung said:
Quote:
so that all the people on this Board who thought cutting Will Hill over a failed marijuana test was a good idea will puke.


Willie: Few if any posters on this board that I'm aware of favored cutting Hill "for a failed marijuana test".

There was a lot more to it.
If Cooper or White aren'y there.  
chillinman1183 : 3/27/2015 10:04 am : link
In my opinion it makes the choice even easier for the FO to make. Just like last year with OBJ. I think yhey draft Parker,who I think is a superior player to White. If he doesn't miss those 7 games his #'s would have eclipsed Coopers. 45 catches for 855 in 6 games this year is incredible production. Over 200 yards against Florida state,who have one of the best defenses in CFB. Cooper may run better routes but Parker highpoints and attacks the ball in the air better than anyone in the draft,including White.
He is a big,tall,explosive athelete. He may not be as quick or sudden like a Odelle beckham but he is at his best with the ball in his hands after the catch.
I am not as enamored with Whites 4.35 at the combine as most. You don't see it on a consistent basis.
Parker has the nack for making big plays and would make an excellent green zone target for Manning as well.
Parker averaged over 19 YPC his finl season as opposed to Whites 13.3 or Coopers 13.9.
Had Devante played in all of his games he's probably the first one to come off the board this year.
So while White or Cooper may not be there it could work out for the better. If ccoper's there I think the Giants take him as there's no prior injury history,and he's likely the higher rated of the 2 because of the production this year due to parkers broken foot.
like I've said in several of my previous posts,I think Devante is our pick at 9. I don't believe any of the OL deserve a top 15 selection let alone at 9,and none of the defensive players that may have a comparable grade fit what the Giants do on defense. Not unless they think Beasley can be a 3 down 43 LB. I don't believe he can play end on the NFL on an every down basis, I also believe Fowler gets a little more hype than he actually warrants. The only DE at the top of the draft that would be a consideration is Ray,and I'm not sold on him as a player.
Pages: 1 2 <<Prev | Show All |
Back to the Corner