Concerned that we won't get a chance at Cooper, White

also a strong chance NYG doesn't go DT at #9, they favor DT value later on unless it's a no-brainer prospect like a Suh or Ngata.

It's not a great year to be picking in the top ten, but we should get a very good player and probably at a position of need.

so that all the people on this Board who thought cutting Will Hill over a failed marijuana test was a good idea will puke.

Jon. I think this a nice year to be at 9. Considering our needs.

There is plenty of talent yet it's just not the 2014 draft class. Would be nice to be a draft as deep as last year but it's just not. Perhaps the key to this draft will be the 2nd Round pick.

In comment 12204446 WillieYoung said:

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so that all the people on this Board who thought cutting Will Hill over a failed marijuana test was a good idea will puke.

Well, getting caught once is one thing, but...

I'm amazed you continue to miss the point on Hill, perhaps I shouldn't be.

OC, there's essentially one blue chip prospect in the draft in Leonard Williams. Beyond that, it's very good red chippers including the OL.

by a team who overvalues them more than you've seen in any of the mocks?

I'm thinking Jax taking Tyson Alualu #10 in 2010, Buf taking Stephon Gilmore #10 in 2012 (yeah, I realize we pick at #9, so that's somewhat irrelevant), Cleveland taking Barkevious Mingo #6 in 2013 and Minnesota taking Anthony Barr at #9 last year.

Guess my point is that, traditionally, there will be at least one surprise pick in the top ten, so that gets you that much closer to one of the 'sure thing' picks you've been hoping for at #9.

would that ever suck, not being able 2 draft another WR. Lmao

White or Scherff are the more likely selection imo. If none of the above are available I'd seriously try and trade down a few slots. Targeting the best left of Collins(OL)/Clemmings/Ray/Parker.

will be gone. I will be surprised if Scherff is gone but its possible. I wonder if someone falls in love with him and jumps over the Giants to grab him but trading up to 8 for a guard seems unlikely.

I'd wager NYG winds up with Scherff or Peat in the majority of the results, unless Dupree or another edge rusher rises fast late.

In comment 12204446 WillieYoung said:

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so that all the people on this Board who thought cutting Will Hill over a failed marijuana test was a good idea will puke.

I don't care if he was smoking pot. The part that bamboozles me is he didn't have enough discipline to refrain from it, knowing he was heading into a test that was of crucial import to his football future.

To me that makes him a grade A dumbass

is falling in love with a player. I'm tempering my enthusiasm here, and assuming Cooper and White are both not available by the time pick #9 rolls around.

Quote:

I'm hoping we take Randy Gregory WillieYoung : 12:24 pm : link : reply so that all the people on this Board who thought cutting Will Hill over a failed marijuana test was a good idea will puke.

Are there still posters this fucking dense that can't understand why hill was cut?

or a dud like Hill who repeatedly does so, earning suspensions.

be stunned if Cooper is still available at #9, and surprised if White is available.

The players you listed are those I expect to be gone when we pick at #9, with the possible exception of Scherff. I could see him being available, and Shelton being gone.

I'd be happy with Scherff, Shelton, La'el Collins, or a player you didn't mention, Eddie Goldman. I also can't rule out Reese taking Arik Armstead. I don't think he will, and don't want him to, but it's possible.

Wish Mariota would fall to us. "Hello Jerry this is the Browns GM..."

In comment 12204488 FatMan in Charlotte said:

Quote:

Quote: I'm hoping we take Randy Gregory WillieYoung : 12:24 pm : link : reply so that all the people on this Board who thought cutting Will Hill over a failed marijuana test was a good idea will puke. Are there still posters this fucking dense that can't understand why hill was cut?

Its BBI FMiC. Ten years from now it will still be brought up.

The first two while in the Nebraska program and then at the Combine. Where is the discipline when you know what's at stake? That is the issue not whether or not cannabis should be banned by the NFL. He'll be red flagged by the Giants...count on it.

both of the Collins kids.

JonC, I agree about DT; very unlikely that we'll take one at 9, and if we did I suspect it would be Malcom Brown, a guy I think is a sure thing 3-technique, as opposed to Shelton.

But I'd sure love to grab Scherff, Cooper or White. I think that all three will be terrific.

I don't know if he'll get to the top ten but perhaps is we move down some he'll be in the mix. He'd be a nice fit next to Hank as a penetrating 3-tech.

and I am also thinking someone will make a move that will upset a lot of team boards, and 1 of the non-QBs on your list falls to us.
Or Cleveland or NO is hot for our spot and we slide to 12 or 13 and pick up a 43 or 44 to go with our 40(or repackage to move up to 30-35).

As for DT, unless all their targets at gone #9, I think DT may figure into the mix at #40.

But, after adding Bromley and Ellis to the active gameday rotation, another DT has a fight for playing time. That and DT is one of those positions where the regime tends to fill the ranks via value additions. Eg, early 2nd rounders or value UFAs. Diamonds in the rough, as it were. High bust rate early in the draft for DTs, very difficult position for players to excel at and do so over a long haul.

with Peat

Parker could have a as good a or better grade as White. No way to know until the draft but he's a legit choice there.

without Peat.

is going to be a significantly better pro than White?

I don't see them as 1a and 1b like it appears most in the forum do these days.

select Peat, where do you think they'll plug him in this year? Everyone assumes Pugh to OG but is he ideally built for that or would Peat be the better option? Can Peat be an effective RT this year or would they be better off putting him at Guard as Pugh has the experience?

He is to me. White is a top ten prospect but Cooper is the #2 player overall imo.

In comment 12204574 Torrag said:

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He is to me. White is a top ten prospect but Cooper is the #2 player overall imo.

Likewise.

Hypothetically, if a guy like Beasley or Fowler are there (unlikely) and Cooper is as well, do you still select Cooper?

but only one year of demonstrating it. But, he's the type of talent a team like the Raiders historically can't resist. I could see them picking White before Cooper.

On grade and my draft philosophy I'd take Cooper.

I'd really want Beasley though. He could be a Jevon Kearse type pass rusher if utilized correctly...which I think Spags would do. I love defense and our organizations history there. It's really hurt the Giants defensive pride these last couple of go rounds.

the highest rated player.. unless they get a good offer to move down.. which could happen if Mariotta is still on the board..

love one or two of the pass-rushers and they take him at 9.

me too.

Me too but I'm not sure who that could be at this point. I think we agree Beasley and Fowler will be gone. The darkhorse for me was Gregory but that's not happening now. Ray and Dupree don't carry a #9 grade for me. If the Giants pick one of them I'm on board but inside I'd be worried...

though I would like to see Dupree graded high on their board. Pass rusher doesn't appear a great option at #9.

Damontre hasn't had the impact that you expect out of a 3rd round pick (yet) and JPP isn't 100% certain to be retained after this year. Need to bolster the ranks with youth to go along with the veteran FA signings.

I want Fowler badly. Slip to 9 pleassssse.

that people who know anything about La'el Collins and not see a stud. I just don't get how people can think he isn't worth the 9th pick in the draft. I mean I have difference of opinions with people, but what do people seem to see that I don't that brings down his value. The kid is amazing and I would ecstatic to get him. Without QBs I have him as the forth player in this draft

In comment 12204574 Torrag said:

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He is to me. White is a top ten prospect but Cooper is the #2 player overall imo.

+1

if ATL gets their draft pick forfeited.

I'm not sure Collins will be viewed as a definitive upgrade from Pugh. He's a bit undersized for what they typically go for at tackle, and with Pugh onboard you've got two somewhat undersized technicians who may well not be well suited to tackle.

I think we can get a better player at #9, and better OG value at #40, for example.

In comment 12204746 stoneman said:

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if ATL gets their draft pick forfeited.

ATL is not going to lose their #1 pick for piping in crowd noise. At worst I would expect a 2nd rounder, but more likely a 3rd or 4th

I'd rather it be Scherff if he can play T, or Peat. Draft the talent and value.

In comment 12204735 Amtoft said:

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that people who know anything about La'el Collins and not see a stud. I just don't get how people can think he isn't worth the 9th pick in the draft. I mean I have difference of opinions with people, but what do people seem to see that I don't that brings down his value. The kid is amazing and I would ecstatic to get him. Without QBs I have him as the forth player in this draft

I'm no draft guru but love Collins from watching a lot of SEC games. I would be very happy with him.

Collins has his fans here. He'd be in the mix for me but ideally in the 12-16 range if we trade down. He has strong fundamentals and footwork, plays with a mean streak and he was successful in the SEC. On the flip side is how he'll project at the next level. His athletic testing barring his 40 was average to below average. To compare for example Scherff ran a 7.07 3-cone vs 7.7 for Collins. His arm length and playing weight are also run of the mill. Most see his future kicking inside to OG. I don't love the Justin Pugh comp as imo Collins is a power player moreso than Pugh.

but my point was moreso that I see him and Pugh as best suited to OG, or better suited there than RT. Imo. A trade down would mitigate some of my hesitation with Collins, but I still think we'd need a legit RT.

In comment 12204759 JonC said:

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I'm not sure Collins will be viewed as a definitive upgrade from Pugh. He's a bit undersized for what they typically go for at tackle, and with Pugh onboard you've got two somewhat undersized technicians who may well not be well suited to tackle. I think we can get a better player at #9, and better OG value at #40, for example.

Hmmm... That is interesting because Collins and Pugh are not really alike. Besides the same height Collins has over an inch longer arms. He is also way more powerful in run blocking than Push by far. He would be a hugh upgrade at RT IMO where you can move Pugh inside. I am not even sure Collins can't play LT. If you go watch some of him he is a dominate player playing against the best DL in college football. Can you put Collins at LG day one and he is a beast yes you can. Can you put him at RT day one and he is just as much a beast yes you can. You can't say that about many OTs in this draft. Scherff and Collins are the best OL by far. Just because they would dominate at OG doesn't mean they aren't good OTs. Getting an OG later in the draft means you got an OG not an OT. After those 2 then Peat and Clemmings probably have the most potential to play LT although I have them below Collins in that regard as well. Flowers is probably the next best RT/OG prospect and then you have a few OGs like Tre Jackson and Lake Tomlinson both of who really are pure OGs. Don't get me wrong I really like Tre Jackson, but Collins and Scherff aren't just OGs. There is a big difference in that.

We don't get after the defense like we used to. Hopefully we get it in this draft.

I see your points, where we differ is I just don't love Pugh or Collins at RT. I want more from the #9 pick, Scherff would deliver the more.

In comment 12204826 JonC said:

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I see your points, where we differ is I just don't love Pugh or Collins at RT. I want more from the #9 pick, Scherff would deliver the more.

I miss Rich Seubert…*tear*

In comment 12204800 Torrag said:

Quote:

Collins has his fans here. He'd be in the mix for me but ideally in the 12-16 range if we trade down. He has strong fundamentals and footwork, plays with a mean streak and he was successful in the SEC. On the flip side is how he'll project at the next level. His athletic testing barring his 40 was average to below average. To compare for example Scherff ran a 7.07 3-cone vs 7.7 for Collins. His arm length and playing weight are also run of the mill. Most see his future kicking inside to OG. I don't love the Justin Pugh comp as imo Collins is a power player moreso than Pugh.

3 cone is nice.... It shows what kind of hips he has and such. I don't think it is that big of a deal though. 3 cone means more to me for CBs... Then Safeties.. WRs.. RBs.. LBs.. etc down the line. It is very rare for a OL to swing and turn like that. What they need is good slide with their feet which is different. His feet aren't perfect for LT, but I think he could play it. I am almost positive he would be a beast at OG and at RT. He played LT against the conference that is highly regarded as having the absolute best DL and was dominate. Not good, but dominate.

In comment 12204826 JonC said:

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I see your points, where we differ is I just don't love Pugh or Collins at RT. I want more from the #9 pick, Scherff would deliver the more.

I actually don't like Pugh at RT because he isn't a dominate run blocker. Where do you put Pugh then if you don't like him at RT?

His power game isn't up to excelling at RT or OG imo. He can play there but it's not a perfect fit.

because if White and Cooper are gone, I'm taking Parker.

In comment 12204851 Torrag said:

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His power game isn't up to excelling at RT or OG imo. He can play there but it's not a perfect fit.

I think his best fit is LG. He has such good movement which is what I like out of my LGs... He pass protection would scare me a little on the Left side, but I could put him there if Beatty goes down... But even then my point was if you move him to LT or LG then who plays RT next year? The OG people want to take in the second round?

He's versatile. I still see his best position as LT where he would be Beatty's equal at worst imo. If we draft an OT he can play LG. If we draft a LG he stays at RT. What matters is upgrading the talent and physicality of the group as a whole.

is used...
we will get either a very good OL or a very good DE if we don't get the WR...
so we will improve positions where we don't have a pro bowl guy on his rookie contract for the next 3 yrs...
that's not a bad thing...
and there are many good WR for the 2nd round... where many teams are able to find good WRs

which is why I hesitate drafting Collins for RT, not sold he's an upgrade worthy of #9 overall.

In comment 12204884 JonC said:

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which is why I hesitate drafting Collins for RT, not sold he's an upgrade worthy of #9 overall.

Ok so you moved Pugh over to LG... Who is your RT? You aren't getting a RT that is projected to start in the second round unless Flowers drops some how. I don't see that happening. Maybe a Donovan Smith or DJ Humphries can come in and play, but more likely if you pass on Scherff and Collins then Pugh is your RT and you draft a LG with the next pick. Pugh or Beatty go down who is the OTs? Collins gives much better versatility along your line while upgrading the RT position... IMO. Collins is a beast and dominate player. Assuming he doesn't bust he will be a 10 year player for us.

.

around here on draft day. Many are hot for a WR at 9 and while I would be ok with that I only see it happening if Cooper falls. White would surprise me and Parker would shock the hell out of me.

In comment 12204915 JonC said:

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.

Ahhh got yeah.

In comment 12204923 Amtoft said:

Quote:

In comment 12204915 JonC said: Quote: . Ahhh got yeah.

The more I run mocks, the more it looks like Scherff or Peat at #9. WR targets should be gone, the edge rushers that I could them taking other than Dupree probably gone. Leaves the big moose, which I'm ok with.

In comment 12204920 LakeGeorgeGiant said:

Quote:

around here on draft day. Many are hot for a WR at 9 and while I would be ok with that I only see it happening if Cooper falls. White would surprise me and Parker would shock the hell out of me.

I agree... Just like they were last year and the year before that. Just like they claimed OBJ to be a bust because he was hurt and now he is the greatest player of all time. Every extreme that can happen... Will happen.

In comment 12204926 JonC said:

Quote:

The more I run mocks, the more it looks like Scherff or Peat at #9. WR targets should be gone, the edge rushers that I could them taking other than Dupree probably gone. Leaves the big moose, which I'm ok with.

I like Collins more, but not by much over Scherff... I would be very happy with him also. Peat scares me. After he declares the next 3 months are the most important in his entire life and didn't put in the work? Players like that scary me. Talent wise he is probably the best LT prospect int he draft, but I am not sure I touch him at pick 9.

made me get on board with selecting him at #9. My top 5 for the first round are in order of preference

1. Beasley (won't be there)
2. Cooper (probably won't be there)
3. Scherrf (good chance)
4. La'el Collins (a reach perhaps)
5. Owamagbe Odighizuwa (his numbers say he is worth it)

for me. His kick slide has more balance and he has more shock in his hands. Scherff has the nicer combine numbers.. but balance as we learned with Brewer.. is key. Collins looks more like a tackle to me.

Overall with Parker.. we have the ideal complement to Mr. Beckham Jr. The receiver class.. because it is strong could stand with any. The oline.. not so much.

Agree with the pass-rushers.. lots of talent with lots of warts.

Torrag, yup, I'm aware that Brown is moving up boards. He's damn good, and even with the addition of Ellis, I think this would be a worthwhile pick.

Bill T, I haven't seen anyone from any of the mocks listing Parker as ahead of either Cooper or White, so I'd be surprised if he went earlier than them.

and White will probably be gone too considering the success of last year's top rookie WRs. Scherff will likely be there though. It's a bit high for a guard.

can't argue with his production, and he reminds me of Dez Bryant in terms of how well he goes up for balls. He certainly wouldn't be a terrible consolation prize.

I don't want Peat. From what I've been hearing he's not that good. And he didn't ascend this year from last year. He basically was flat.

I think the player the Giants are targeting is someone we're not thinking about.

In comment 12204679 JonC said:

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me too.

Me three!!

But I'm sure I'd be excited by whoever they pick - we are going to get a very good football player at 9

..

The Giants picking another WR number 1? There are more pressing needs right now. There are only so many balls to go around. You need OL to be successful. To pick another WR is just overkill. Just my opinion.

"I'd like him at 12, but not at 9". That implies a precision of evaluating both players' future prospects and other teams' GM's likely behavior that is wholly illusory.

so they dont try and be too smart for thier own good i want either a top notch DE or OL at 9 they need to be stronger running the ball and tougher on defence particularly against the run and bringing pressure on QB, where i hope spags will make them better against the run as he did last time he was DC

they have enough weapons already possibly the best trio of WR in the league assuming cruz comes back 100% (and im not worried on that score), they also have donnell and now vereen to throw the ball short to as well thats alot of choices they also have harris to add some speed deep

my preference is an OL la'el collins is my choice i think he has better flexibility and best upside of all the OL available at 9 and prefer him to shreff at this point (i incidentally think shreff goes before 9 anyway) and then add davis or similar in round 2

those two so bad you move up. Or, have a real good review of Parker to see if he doesn't fit the bill as a stud WR worthy at 9 overall. Or plan on picking another player at another position.

If one of those top two WR fall to 9 then, you jump on the opportunity, or see if you have a trade down partner....

I wouldn't be upset if they grabbed Sherff or Dupree or Gregory at 9, or even Melvin Gordon. Not to mention there's a chance Mariotta slips and someone wants to trade up to nab him...

and possibly White as well. I think the plan is to beef up the OL and DL.. they have to do it..

In comment 12204446 WillieYoung said:

Quote:

so that all the people on this Board who thought cutting Will Hill over a failed marijuana test was a good idea will puke.

Willie: Few if any posters on this board that I'm aware of favored cutting Hill "for a failed marijuana test".

There was a lot more to it.

In my opinion it makes the choice even easier for the FO to make. Just like last year with OBJ. I think yhey draft Parker,who I think is a superior player to White. If he doesn't miss those 7 games his #'s would have eclipsed Coopers. 45 catches for 855 in 6 games this year is incredible production. Over 200 yards against Florida state,who have one of the best defenses in CFB. Cooper may run better routes but Parker highpoints and attacks the ball in the air better than anyone in the draft,including White.
He is a big,tall,explosive athelete. He may not be as quick or sudden like a Odelle beckham but he is at his best with the ball in his hands after the catch.
I am not as enamored with Whites 4.35 at the combine as most. You don't see it on a consistent basis.
Parker has the nack for making big plays and would make an excellent green zone target for Manning as well.
Parker averaged over 19 YPC his finl season as opposed to Whites 13.3 or Coopers 13.9.
Had Devante played in all of his games he's probably the first one to come off the board this year.
So while White or Cooper may not be there it could work out for the better. If ccoper's there I think the Giants take him as there's no prior injury history,and he's likely the higher rated of the 2 because of the production this year due to parkers broken foot.
like I've said in several of my previous posts,I think Devante is our pick at 9. I don't believe any of the OL deserve a top 15 selection let alone at 9,and none of the defensive players that may have a comparable grade fit what the Giants do on defense. Not unless they think Beasley can be a 3 down 43 LB. I don't believe he can play end on the NFL on an every down basis, I also believe Fowler gets a little more hype than he actually warrants. The only DE at the top of the draft that would be a consideration is Ray,and I'm not sold on him as a player.