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Concerned that we won't get a chance at Cooper, White

yatqb : 3/26/2015 12:19 pm
or Scherff.

My thinking is that there are eight players who will either go before 9 or whom we might definitely be pleased with at 9: Winston, Mariota, Williams, White, Cooper, Beasley, Fowler, Scherff.

Another player who might be taken before 9 is Shelton, and if Gregory hadn't failed his drug test he'd have been on this list as well.

I'm hoping that someone above us takes one of Shelton, Gregory, Parker, La'el Collins, Peat, Dupree, Ray or Waynes, because I'm not crazy about any of these guys at 9.
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RE: Amtoft  
LI NHB : 3/26/2015 2:37 pm : link
In comment 12204826 JonC said:
Quote:
I see your points, where we differ is I just don't love Pugh or Collins at RT. I want more from the #9 pick, Scherff would deliver the more.


I miss Rich Seubert…*tear*
RE: Amtoft  
Amtoft : 3/26/2015 2:38 pm : link
In comment 12204800 Torrag said:
Quote:
Collins has his fans here. He'd be in the mix for me but ideally in the 12-16 range if we trade down. He has strong fundamentals and footwork, plays with a mean streak and he was successful in the SEC. On the flip side is how he'll project at the next level. His athletic testing barring his 40 was average to below average. To compare for example Scherff ran a 7.07 3-cone vs 7.7 for Collins. His arm length and playing weight are also run of the mill. Most see his future kicking inside to OG. I don't love the Justin Pugh comp as imo Collins is a power player moreso than Pugh.


3 cone is nice.... It shows what kind of hips he has and such. I don't think it is that big of a deal though. 3 cone means more to me for CBs... Then Safeties.. WRs.. RBs.. LBs.. etc down the line. It is very rare for a OL to swing and turn like that. What they need is good slide with their feet which is different. His feet aren't perfect for LT, but I think he could play it. I am almost positive he would be a beast at OG and at RT. He played LT against the conference that is highly regarded as having the absolute best DL and was dominate. Not good, but dominate.
RE: Amtoft  
Amtoft : 3/26/2015 2:42 pm : link
In comment 12204826 JonC said:
Quote:
I see your points, where we differ is I just don't love Pugh or Collins at RT. I want more from the #9 pick, Scherff would deliver the more.


I actually don't like Pugh at RT because he isn't a dominate run blocker. Where do you put Pugh then if you don't like him at RT?
Pugh's best position is LT  
Torrag : 3/26/2015 2:45 pm : link
His power game isn't up to excelling at RT or OG imo. He can play there but it's not a perfect fit.
I know that I've drunk the Kool-AId  
Bill L : 3/26/2015 2:49 pm : link
because if White and Cooper are gone, I'm taking Parker.
RE: Pugh's best position is LT  
Amtoft : 3/26/2015 2:50 pm : link
In comment 12204851 Torrag said:
Quote:
His power game isn't up to excelling at RT or OG imo. He can play there but it's not a perfect fit.


I think his best fit is LG. He has such good movement which is what I like out of my LGs... He pass protection would scare me a little on the Left side, but I could put him there if Beatty goes down... But even then my point was if you move him to LT or LG then who plays RT next year? The OG people want to take in the second round?
Pugh will play where he needs to  
Torrag : 3/26/2015 2:54 pm : link
He's versatile. I still see his best position as LT where he would be Beatty's equal at worst imo. If we draft an OT he can play LG. If we draft a LG he stays at RT. What matters is upgrading the talent and physicality of the group as a whole.
not sure why the word concerned  
hitdog42 : 3/26/2015 2:55 pm : link
is used...
we will get either a very good OL or a very good DE if we don't get the WR...
so we will improve positions where we don't have a pro bowl guy on his rookie contract for the next 3 yrs...
that's not a bad thing...
and there are many good WR for the 2nd round... where many teams are able to find good WRs
I'd put Pugh at LG  
JonC : 3/26/2015 3:01 pm : link
which is why I hesitate drafting Collins for RT, not sold he's an upgrade worthy of #9 overall.
RE: I'd put Pugh at LG  
Amtoft : 3/26/2015 3:18 pm : link
In comment 12204884 JonC said:
Quote:
which is why I hesitate drafting Collins for RT, not sold he's an upgrade worthy of #9 overall.


Ok so you moved Pugh over to LG... Who is your RT? You aren't getting a RT that is projected to start in the second round unless Flowers drops some how. I don't see that happening. Maybe a Donovan Smith or DJ Humphries can come in and play, but more likely if you pass on Scherff and Collins then Pugh is your RT and you draft a LG with the next pick. Pugh or Beatty go down who is the OTs? Collins gives much better versatility along your line while upgrading the RT position... IMO. Collins is a beast and dominate player. Assuming he doesn't bust he will be a 10 year player for us.
I'd pick Scherff or Peat  
JonC : 3/26/2015 3:21 pm : link
.
I just feel like there will be a lot of angry people  
LakeGeorgeGiant : 3/26/2015 3:26 pm : link
around here on draft day. Many are hot for a WR at 9 and while I would be ok with that I only see it happening if Cooper falls. White would surprise me and Parker would shock the hell out of me.
RE: I'd pick Scherff or Peat  
Amtoft : 3/26/2015 3:27 pm : link
In comment 12204915 JonC said:
Quote:
.


Ahhh got yeah.
RE: RE: I'd pick Scherff or Peat  
JonC : 3/26/2015 3:28 pm : link
In comment 12204923 Amtoft said:
Quote:
In comment 12204915 JonC said:


Quote:


.



Ahhh got yeah.
woops  
JonC : 3/26/2015 3:29 pm : link
The more I run mocks, the more it looks like Scherff or Peat at #9. WR targets should be gone, the edge rushers that I could them taking other than Dupree probably gone. Leaves the big moose, which I'm ok with.
RE: I just feel like there will be a lot of angry people  
Amtoft : 3/26/2015 3:30 pm : link
In comment 12204920 LakeGeorgeGiant said:
Quote:
around here on draft day. Many are hot for a WR at 9 and while I would be ok with that I only see it happening if Cooper falls. White would surprise me and Parker would shock the hell out of me.


I agree... Just like they were last year and the year before that. Just like they claimed OBJ to be a bust because he was hurt and now he is the greatest player of all time. Every extreme that can happen... Will happen.
RE: woops  
Amtoft : 3/26/2015 3:33 pm : link
In comment 12204926 JonC said:
Quote:
The more I run mocks, the more it looks like Scherff or Peat at #9. WR targets should be gone, the edge rushers that I could them taking other than Dupree probably gone. Leaves the big moose, which I'm ok with.


I like Collins more, but not by much over Scherff... I would be very happy with him also. Peat scares me. After he declares the next 3 months are the most important in his entire life and didn't put in the work? Players like that scary me. Talent wise he is probably the best LT prospect int he draft, but I am not sure I touch him at pick 9.
Scherff's 3 cone  
Emil : 3/26/2015 3:39 pm : link
made me get on board with selecting him at #9. My top 5 for the first round are in order of preference

1. Beasley (won't be there)
2. Cooper (probably won't be there)
3. Scherrf (good chance)
4. La'el Collins (a reach perhaps)
5. Owamagbe Odighizuwa (his numbers say he is worth it)
Collins over Scherff  
RAIN : 3/26/2015 3:50 pm : link
for me. His kick slide has more balance and he has more shock in his hands. Scherff has the nicer combine numbers.. but balance as we learned with Brewer.. is key. Collins looks more like a tackle to me.

Overall with Parker.. we have the ideal complement to Mr. Beckham Jr. The receiver class.. because it is strong could stand with any. The oline.. not so much.

Agree with the pass-rushers.. lots of talent with lots of warts.
...  
yatqb : 3/26/2015 4:26 pm : link
Torrag, yup, I'm aware that Brown is moving up boards. He's damn good, and even with the addition of Ellis, I think this would be a worthwhile pick.

Bill T, I haven't seen anyone from any of the mocks listing Parker as ahead of either Cooper or White, so I'd be surprised if he went earlier than them.
We won't get a chance to draft Cooper  
illmatic : 3/26/2015 4:29 pm : link
and White will probably be gone too considering the success of last year's top rookie WRs. Scherff will likely be there though. It's a bit high for a guard.
Bill T, I also see him as more of a long strider. But you  
yatqb : 3/26/2015 4:41 pm : link
can't argue with his production, and he reminds me of Dez Bryant in terms of how well he goes up for balls. He certainly wouldn't be a terrible consolation prize.
Peat  
DavidinBMNY : 3/26/2015 5:02 pm : link
I don't want Peat. From what I've been hearing he's not that good. And he didn't ascend this year from last year. He basically was flat.

I think the player the Giants are targeting is someone we're not thinking about.
RE: djm  
gidiefor : Mod : 3/26/2015 5:10 pm : link
In comment 12204679 JonC said:
Quote:
me too.


Me three!!

But I'm sure I'd be excited by whoever they pick - we are going to get a very good football player at 9
Cooper is definately gone before Giants pick  
ZogZerg : 3/26/2015 6:20 pm : link
..
Am I the only one who don't see  
map7711 : 3/26/2015 7:06 pm : link
The Giants picking another WR number 1? There are more pressing needs right now. There are only so many balls to go around. You need OL to be successful. To pick another WR is just overkill. Just my opinion.
I often hear things like  
Mike in Boston : 3/26/2015 7:14 pm : link
"I'd like him at 12, but not at 9". That implies a precision of evaluating both players' future prospects and other teams' GM's likely behavior that is wholly illusory.
i actually hope both WR are gone  
msh : 3/26/2015 8:39 pm : link
so they dont try and be too smart for thier own good i want either a top notch DE or OL at 9 they need to be stronger running the ball and tougher on defence particularly against the run and bringing pressure on QB, where i hope spags will make them better against the run as he did last time he was DC

they have enough weapons already possibly the best trio of WR in the league assuming cruz comes back 100% (and im not worried on that score), they also have donnell and now vereen to throw the ball short to as well thats alot of choices they also have harris to add some speed deep

my preference is an OL la'el collins is my choice i think he has better flexibility and best upside of all the OL available at 9 and prefer him to shreff at this point (i incidentally think shreff goes before 9 anyway) and then add davis or similar in round 2
I think that's the right assumption to make, and if you want one of  
BlueLou : 3/27/2015 1:18 am : link
those two so bad you move up. Or, have a real good review of Parker to see if he doesn't fit the bill as a stud WR worthy at 9 overall. Or plan on picking another player at another position.

If one of those top two WR fall to 9 then, you jump on the opportunity, or see if you have a trade down partner....

I wouldn't be upset if they grabbed Sherff or Dupree or Gregory at 9, or even Melvin Gordon. Not to mention there's a chance Mariotta slips and someone wants to trade up to nab him...
Cooper will be gone  
blueblood : 3/27/2015 1:25 am : link
and possibly White as well. I think the plan is to beef up the OL and DL.. they have to do it..
RE: I'm hoping we take Randy Gregory  
mrvax : 3/27/2015 7:24 am : link
In comment 12204446 WillieYoung said:
Quote:
so that all the people on this Board who thought cutting Will Hill over a failed marijuana test was a good idea will puke.


Willie: Few if any posters on this board that I'm aware of favored cutting Hill "for a failed marijuana test".

There was a lot more to it.
If Cooper or White aren'y there.  
chillinman1183 : 3/27/2015 10:04 am : link
In my opinion it makes the choice even easier for the FO to make. Just like last year with OBJ. I think yhey draft Parker,who I think is a superior player to White. If he doesn't miss those 7 games his #'s would have eclipsed Coopers. 45 catches for 855 in 6 games this year is incredible production. Over 200 yards against Florida state,who have one of the best defenses in CFB. Cooper may run better routes but Parker highpoints and attacks the ball in the air better than anyone in the draft,including White.
He is a big,tall,explosive athelete. He may not be as quick or sudden like a Odelle beckham but he is at his best with the ball in his hands after the catch.
I am not as enamored with Whites 4.35 at the combine as most. You don't see it on a consistent basis.
Parker has the nack for making big plays and would make an excellent green zone target for Manning as well.
Parker averaged over 19 YPC his finl season as opposed to Whites 13.3 or Coopers 13.9.
Had Devante played in all of his games he's probably the first one to come off the board this year.
So while White or Cooper may not be there it could work out for the better. If ccoper's there I think the Giants take him as there's no prior injury history,and he's likely the higher rated of the 2 because of the production this year due to parkers broken foot.
like I've said in several of my previous posts,I think Devante is our pick at 9. I don't believe any of the OL deserve a top 15 selection let alone at 9,and none of the defensive players that may have a comparable grade fit what the Giants do on defense. Not unless they think Beasley can be a 3 down 43 LB. I don't believe he can play end on the NFL on an every down basis, I also believe Fowler gets a little more hype than he actually warrants. The only DE at the top of the draft that would be a consideration is Ray,and I'm not sold on him as a player.
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