DT pick at #9 isn't Brown, it's Eddie Goldman. He has fantastic strength at the POA, excellent short area quickness, can bull rush OL, has the size the Giants like in their DTs, and has some experience at DE. Sy said some people he knows are using the word 'elite' to describe Goldman. I think #9 is too high for Goldman, but would be fine with the pick. Another potential sleeper at #9 is Armstead. I wouldn't take Armstead, and don't think Reese will either, but wouldn't be shocked if he was the pick.
Hankins, Ellis, Bromley,Brown, Hamilton(the PS guy),FA?. Wear down the middle of the O line; come 4th Qtr stunts and blitzes up the middle with JT Dennard, Casillas, or the down low Safety...typical Spags D.
unless there's a prospect there whom they deem to be clearly superior to everyone else still on the board. That seems next to impossible at this point.
With the signing of Ellis, Hankins on the rise and Bromley finished with his redshirt year, and with a bunch of returning guys behind them, DT isn't even a pressing need.
He still has Gregory going #5 overall to washington. I don't see it, he'll fall into the 13-20 range . Brown is rising according to reports but #9 is a stretch imo.
Charles Davis is parrotting what someone else said. He and others make their predictions based on needs going into free agency and pre combine. They try to marry up a player to the team they feel is the best fit for need.
Based purely on the players signed and coming back from injury, I don't see DT or OL at 9. More likely one of the 3 receivers or possibly DE. This draft is deep in talent in later rounds. This year it really is a crap shoot.
these guys mock based on what they see is the need for the team. Which makes sense to a degree. However they have the tendency especially with the Giants to overmock for need.. The Giants need to stop the run.. They mock a run stopper.. They also seem to ignore the Giants 1st round tendencies which is Pass Rush DE.. WR.. CB.. In his moch draft..
Kevin White, Devante Parker, Brandon Scherff, Bud Dupree, even Trae Waynes make more sense than Brown at 9
And is worthy of a top ten grade. Though I don't think this will happen, I suppose there is a logic behind it.
1. Ellis is only signed for one year
2. Bromley is still unproven and maybe he is just a rotational guy
3. Jenkins probably only has a few serviceable years left
4. Kuhn is JAG
5. Malcom Brown could be Jonathan Hankins part II
There are a lot of reasons why it won't happen, but I am curious to hear some other perspectives of why this would work.
Many nfl new age offenses are built on the idea that five very good OL pass protect and more weapons go out. Or they deploy read option so the QB is a running option.
The possible antidotes are a 3 4 look or a 3 4 or just pressure up the middle that requires two double teams by offensive players or a weapon held back to keep the QB clean.
I am not sure that as qbs hold the ball shorter and take 3 step drops ....that pinching from the sides is a coverage sack so pressure up the middle is more disruptive to current offensive philosophies than 7 years ago.
Positions and their importance are always evolving.
I don't know the answer to the question...those would be my thought starters more knowledgeable posters could debate and modify or clarify further
And is worthy of a top ten grade. Though I don't think this will happen, I suppose there is a logic behind it.
1. Ellis is only signed for one year
2. Bromley is still unproven and maybe he is just a rotational guy
3. Jenkins probably only has a few serviceable years left
4. Kuhn is JAG
5. Malcom Brown could be Jonathan Hankins part II
There are a lot of reasons why it won't happen, but I am curious to hear some other perspectives of why this would work.
Remember you are talking top ten players in the COUNTRY.. I dont see Malcolm Brown as that.. and I dont believe he impacts the team and the Giants have a long standing tendency to redshirt DT's their first year... which means he will not help the team right away..
And is worthy of a top ten grade. Though I don't think this will happen, I suppose there is a logic behind it.
1. Ellis is only signed for one year
2. Bromley is still unproven and maybe he is just a rotational guy
3. Jenkins probably only has a few serviceable years left
4. Kuhn is JAG
5. Malcom Brown could be Jonathan Hankins part II
There are a lot of reasons why it won't happen, but I am curious to hear some other perspectives of why this would work.
Remember you are talking top ten players in the COUNTRY.. I dont see Malcolm Brown as that.. and I dont believe he impacts the team and the Giants have a long standing tendency to redshirt DT's their first year... which means he will not help the team right away..
For the record, I would not like to see Malcolm Brown added to the team. Just trying to determine what logic is behind it.
Many nfl new age offenses are built on the idea that five very good OL pass protect and more weapons go out. Or they deploy read option so the QB is a running option.
The possible antidotes are a 3 4 look or a 3 4 or just pressure up the middle that requires two double teams by offensive players or a weapon held back to keep the QB clean.
I am not sure that as qbs hold the ball shorter and take 3 step drops ....that pinching from the sides is a coverage sack so pressure up the middle is more disruptive to current offensive philosophies than 7 years ago.
Positions and their importance are always evolving.
I don't know the answer to the question...those would be my thought starters more knowledgeable posters could debate and modify or clarify further
Good theory on pressure up the middle and I think that has merit, but I wonder if a similar effect can be achieved with stunts.
Many nfl new age offenses are built on the idea that five very good OL pass protect and more weapons go out. Or they deploy read option so the QB is a running option.
The possible antidotes are a 3 4 look or a 3 4 or just pressure up the middle that requires two double teams by offensive players or a weapon held back to keep the QB clean.
I am not sure that as qbs hold the ball shorter and take 3 step drops ....that pinching from the sides is a coverage sack so pressure up the middle is more disruptive to current offensive philosophies than 7 years ago.
Positions and their importance are always evolving.
I don't know the answer to the question...those would be my thought starters more knowledgeable posters could debate and modify or clarify further
Bill2,
I am not sure going by Reese and Ross draft history that DT is a position they value that high in the draft.
I would guess they seem to value QB, WR, CB, DE and OL. I can see the other positions as mid to later 1st round choices in terms of position value.
Sure we would like value and need to balance out, but in terms of positions of value. I get the sense Reese and Ross have the above positions they value higher and others they value later on.
I'd be very, very surprised if we went DT that early. I can see mid to late first round in other years, or later in the draft like we have been for a while, specifically 2nd and 3rd rounders.
I can't see Brown at 9. I would be very surprised if that happened.
simply given the high bust rate for DTs. I think there will be other players whose value and need match up better for the Giants that will be available. He may be a nice player but I don't see the Giants taking either him or Shelton at #9.
And is worthy of a top ten grade. Though I don't think this will happen, I suppose there is a logic behind it.
1. Ellis is only signed for one year
2. Bromley is still unproven and maybe he is just a rotational guy
3. Jenkins probably only has a few serviceable years left
4. Kuhn is JAG
5. Malcom Brown could be Jonathan Hankins part II
There are a lot of reasons why it won't happen, but I am curious to hear some other perspectives of why this would work.
Remember you are talking top ten players in the COUNTRY.. I dont see Malcolm Brown as that.. and I dont believe he impacts the team and the Giants have a long standing tendency to redshirt DT's their first year... which means he will not help the team right away..
I guarantee if JR picks a DT @ 9 he will NOT be "redshirted"
clemmings isn't any more risky than any draftable player. all these guys are tear downs/rebuilds learning organizations technique. blank slate means no bad habits
he's the best LT prospect in the draft (highest ceiling). smart. high character. plays hard. plays mean. moves like a gazelle. built like tyron smith
and he's coachable. that's the #1 thing with an athlete like this. those calling him a risk because he's new to the position don't understand the draft imo. look at JPP - if the athletic requirements are there inexperience is no problem.
The Giants were 30th against the run. To be successful you have to stop the run. Look at the running backs in the division. Hankins is great, Ellis is on a one year contract, Bromley is a 3 technique and inexperienced. Jenkins is at the end of his run and the rest are JAGs. IMHO DT is a priority.
but I think you're more likely to see a 3-technique instead of a plugger. Hankins is the best interior OL we have, the skillset that is lacking is that of a penetrating DT. And I don't see obvious ones early, since Leonard Williams will be gone. Malcom Brown would make a little more sense than Goldman or Shelton in that regard as despite his size that is more his MO than clogging the middle.
You complain about how horrible the run D has been recently, and yet you would poo poo this pick? DT's make your Ends and LB's better. Why not have a young 3 man rotation? I would have no problem with Brown or Shelton at #9. What safety or backer is worthy of that spot?
Will be talking Brown and Shelton at the 6 PM hour. Not sure I want Brown in round 1. Our issues stopping the run were with the zone read and that is on the edges, that is why I want Beasley. Freak athlete on the edge is what will help stop the zone/read.
You complain about how horrible the run D has been recently, and yet you would poo poo this pick? DT's make your Ends and LB's better. Why not have a young 3 man rotation? I would have no problem with Brown or Shelton at #9. What safety or backer is worthy of that spot?
The run defense has been horrible. Ellis was signed as a run stopper. Barring injury, he will start with Hankins. Brown would barely see the field. The Giants like their first-round pick to play as a rookie. I don't see them having signed Ellis if they thought there was much of a chance they'd draft a DT at #9 overall.
If the Jets get Beasley I will throw up in my mouth
I see a lot of people saying so-and-so isn't worth the #9 pick. With Gregory almost certainly dropping out of the top 10, it's highly unlikely any of the following will be there for us: Cooper, Beasley, White, Williams, either QB. Of the rest, who makes the most sense? Ray seems too small. None of the OL seem like sure-fire NFL tackles. Shelton or Parker may make the most sense, but they could be the other 2 names off the board when we're up. Let's say they're gone, who is worth the #9 pick?
This is a passing league. The problem is keeping teams out out of the end zone. Clubs can run against the Patriots, and have for years now, but don't get in the end zone. If a club runs for a ton of yards and ends up with a field goal, that's ok. The game today is stopping the pass and I think that if the Giants go defense in the 1st round, it'll be geared towards defending the pass.
This is a passing league. The problem is keeping teams out out of the end zone. Clubs can run against the Patriots, and have for years now, but don't get in the end zone. If a club runs for a ton of yards and ends up with a field goal, that's ok. The game today is stopping the pass and I think that if the Giants go defense in the 1st round, it'll be geared towards defending the pass.
Even in a passing league.. you still have to stop the run.. If you cannot stop the run teams will consistently be situations like 2nd and 5 or less or 3rd and less than 3.. those situations allow an offense to utilize everything in their arsenal. You have to stop the run even in a passing league.
thread on Malcom Brown 2 months ago as to why he would make a great Giant. I had suggested a trade down of 3-4 slots and then taking him.
A few reasons why:
1. He is a true 3 technique DT- a Giants position of need. Currently we are talking up left tackles that we would move to left guard or right tackle with pick #9. We did that 2 years ago at #19 with Pugh, and the jury is still out on that decision. I like the thought of drafting a guy at # 9 that will play his college position.
2. He is equally strong at playing the run and the pass. Last year, he was second in college football when you add sacks and tackles for losses. Frankly, I see no holes in his game.
3. In 2013, he played alongside DE Cedric Reed, who was All Big 12 and often in the conversation for All American. In 2014, Reed played the whole season, but with a torn meniscus. Teams could concentrate their efforts on containing Malcom Brown with Reed playing on one leg, yet Brown continued to improve in 14, proving to me it was not the advantage of playing alongside Reed in 2013 that overstated his value.
4. Watch the BYU- Texas game. Texas got crushed, but its the 4th quarter and the hardest worker (not quitting) is Malcom Brown playing until the final whistle. His hustle and motor are non stop-not often seen in a D Tackle.
5. Brown is married, 2 kids. Not a rookie you will need to worry about night life in New York.
The signing of Ellis has not changed my thoughts much since my earlier post. I would not be disappointed if Brown was our choice.
IF he's there? Many(most) project him to the second round..
With the signing of Ellis, Hankins on the rise and Bromley finished with his redshirt year, and with a bunch of returning guys behind them, DT isn't even a pressing need.
according to who?
You mean at #40? Sure..he may be there.
Based purely on the players signed and coming back from injury, I don't see DT or OL at 9. More likely one of the 3 receivers or possibly DE. This draft is deep in talent in later rounds. This year it really is a crap shoot.
It was done the fay before the news broke about the failed drug test.
Kevin White, Devante Parker, Brandon Scherff, Bud Dupree, even Trae Waynes make more sense than Brown at 9
1. Ellis is only signed for one year
2. Bromley is still unproven and maybe he is just a rotational guy
3. Jenkins probably only has a few serviceable years left
4. Kuhn is JAG
5. Malcom Brown could be Jonathan Hankins part II
There are a lot of reasons why it won't happen, but I am curious to hear some other perspectives of why this would work.
They need to draft someone who can make an immediate impact to the team. That means drafting an OL, WR or DE.
They need to draft someone who can make an immediate impact to the team. That means drafting an OL, WR or DE.
Agreed
The possible antidotes are a 3 4 look or a 3 4 or just pressure up the middle that requires two double teams by offensive players or a weapon held back to keep the QB clean.
I am not sure that as qbs hold the ball shorter and take 3 step drops ....that pinching from the sides is a coverage sack so pressure up the middle is more disruptive to current offensive philosophies than 7 years ago.
Positions and their importance are always evolving.
I don't know the answer to the question...those would be my thought starters more knowledgeable posters could debate and modify or clarify further
1. Ellis is only signed for one year
2. Bromley is still unproven and maybe he is just a rotational guy
3. Jenkins probably only has a few serviceable years left
4. Kuhn is JAG
5. Malcom Brown could be Jonathan Hankins part II
There are a lot of reasons why it won't happen, but I am curious to hear some other perspectives of why this would work.
Remember you are talking top ten players in the COUNTRY.. I dont see Malcolm Brown as that.. and I dont believe he impacts the team and the Giants have a long standing tendency to redshirt DT's their first year... which means he will not help the team right away..
Quote:
And is worthy of a top ten grade. Though I don't think this will happen, I suppose there is a logic behind it.
1. Ellis is only signed for one year
2. Bromley is still unproven and maybe he is just a rotational guy
3. Jenkins probably only has a few serviceable years left
4. Kuhn is JAG
5. Malcom Brown could be Jonathan Hankins part II
There are a lot of reasons why it won't happen, but I am curious to hear some other perspectives of why this would work.
Remember you are talking top ten players in the COUNTRY.. I dont see Malcolm Brown as that.. and I dont believe he impacts the team and the Giants have a long standing tendency to redshirt DT's their first year... which means he will not help the team right away..
For the record, I would not like to see Malcolm Brown added to the team. Just trying to determine what logic is behind it.
The possible antidotes are a 3 4 look or a 3 4 or just pressure up the middle that requires two double teams by offensive players or a weapon held back to keep the QB clean.
I am not sure that as qbs hold the ball shorter and take 3 step drops ....that pinching from the sides is a coverage sack so pressure up the middle is more disruptive to current offensive philosophies than 7 years ago.
Positions and their importance are always evolving.
I don't know the answer to the question...those would be my thought starters more knowledgeable posters could debate and modify or clarify further
Good theory on pressure up the middle and I think that has merit, but I wonder if a similar effect can be achieved with stunts.
The possible antidotes are a 3 4 look or a 3 4 or just pressure up the middle that requires two double teams by offensive players or a weapon held back to keep the QB clean.
I am not sure that as qbs hold the ball shorter and take 3 step drops ....that pinching from the sides is a coverage sack so pressure up the middle is more disruptive to current offensive philosophies than 7 years ago.
Positions and their importance are always evolving.
I don't know the answer to the question...those would be my thought starters more knowledgeable posters could debate and modify or clarify further
Bill2,
I am not sure going by Reese and Ross draft history that DT is a position they value that high in the draft.
I would guess they seem to value QB, WR, CB, DE and OL. I can see the other positions as mid to later 1st round choices in terms of position value.
Sure we would like value and need to balance out, but in terms of positions of value. I get the sense Reese and Ross have the above positions they value higher and others they value later on.
I'd be very, very surprised if we went DT that early. I can see mid to late first round in other years, or later in the draft like we have been for a while, specifically 2nd and 3rd rounders.
I can't see Brown at 9. I would be very surprised if that happened.
We absolutely do NOT need to gamble.
Quote:
And is worthy of a top ten grade. Though I don't think this will happen, I suppose there is a logic behind it.
1. Ellis is only signed for one year
2. Bromley is still unproven and maybe he is just a rotational guy
3. Jenkins probably only has a few serviceable years left
4. Kuhn is JAG
5. Malcom Brown could be Jonathan Hankins part II
There are a lot of reasons why it won't happen, but I am curious to hear some other perspectives of why this would work.
Remember you are talking top ten players in the COUNTRY.. I dont see Malcolm Brown as that.. and I dont believe he impacts the team and the Giants have a long standing tendency to redshirt DT's their first year... which means he will not help the team right away..
I guarantee if JR picks a DT @ 9 he will NOT be "redshirted"
he's the best LT prospect in the draft (highest ceiling). smart. high character. plays hard. plays mean. moves like a gazelle. built like tyron smith
and he's coachable. that's the #1 thing with an athlete like this. those calling him a risk because he's new to the position don't understand the draft imo. look at JPP - if the athletic requirements are there inexperience is no problem.
2015 draft pick= Sure thing.
Even in a passing league.. you still have to stop the run.. If you cannot stop the run teams will consistently be situations like 2nd and 5 or less or 3rd and less than 3.. those situations allow an offense to utilize everything in their arsenal. You have to stop the run even in a passing league.
A few reasons why:
1. He is a true 3 technique DT- a Giants position of need. Currently we are talking up left tackles that we would move to left guard or right tackle with pick #9. We did that 2 years ago at #19 with Pugh, and the jury is still out on that decision. I like the thought of drafting a guy at # 9 that will play his college position.
2. He is equally strong at playing the run and the pass. Last year, he was second in college football when you add sacks and tackles for losses. Frankly, I see no holes in his game.
3. In 2013, he played alongside DE Cedric Reed, who was All Big 12 and often in the conversation for All American. In 2014, Reed played the whole season, but with a torn meniscus. Teams could concentrate their efforts on containing Malcom Brown with Reed playing on one leg, yet Brown continued to improve in 14, proving to me it was not the advantage of playing alongside Reed in 2013 that overstated his value.
4. Watch the BYU- Texas game. Texas got crushed, but its the 4th quarter and the hardest worker (not quitting) is Malcom Brown playing until the final whistle. His hustle and motor are non stop-not often seen in a D Tackle.
5. Brown is married, 2 kids. Not a rookie you will need to worry about night life in New York.
The signing of Ellis has not changed my thoughts much since my earlier post. I would not be disappointed if Brown was our choice.