- "The Giants, who snagged Beckham with the 12th pick last year, might be looking for another LSU star. A large group of Giants personnel were in attendance on Friday, including general manager Jerry Reese. The Giants have the ninth overall pick." Link - ( New Window )
he A) makes it to us and B) we take him. He IMO would be our best OL by far. I think he will easily slide into RT, but could even play some LT. He is the best OL in the draft IMO.
he A) makes it to us and B) we take him. He IMO would be our best OL by far. I think he will easily slide into RT, but could even play some LT. He is the best OL in the draft IMO.
I think he'll be there at 9. The question is whether they'll think he's the BPA.
Most consider him a RT. They normally don't go top 10. The draft up top is weak on Olineman. We would be better off going pass rusher at 9. Then going for either Marpet or Cann at 40.
Id also love to take a chance on Cedric Ogbuehi at 40. Yes he is coming off an injury, but a lot of people considered him top 10 before the injury.
My ideal draft is dropping back a couple spots, picking up Collins..
Preston and Devin Smith in the second round. Marpet in the third. Safety in the fourth. Zach Zenner at 5. Kicker in the sixth. Pot luck/BPA at both 7s.
He'll fit our ol like a glove - giving the push we need to make space for our running backs and having quick tackle feet to help pick up blitzers on that side.
means that la'el collins is likely not the guy they are targeting at 9 now,could change depending how the draft shakes out but they tend to stay clear of thier real pick offically prior to the draft and go on what thier scouts tell them or at least they have in recent years
they have in recent drafts used visits to scope out alternatives to the guy they are planning on picking
and to shroud who they are looking at
- "The Giants, who snagged Beckham with the 12th pick last year, might be looking for another LSU star. A large group of Giants personnel were in attendance on Friday, including general manager Jerry Reese. The Giants have the ninth overall pick." Link - ( New Window )
hmmm, as opposed to sending only Ross (gaaakkk) to watch Peat last week. Maybe this is misdirection, but I sure hope a Peat decision is not in Ross's lap alone.
Also, to Eric's comment that Collins (the La'el kind) is the same size as Pugh, which is not so great to start with, in the pic don't Collins' legs look a bit spindly for such a big man?
Yes but no. This is going to sound idiotic, but Collins looks bigger, I don't know if its overall bulk, arm length or what but he looks bigger than Pugh.
Collins lacks some polish, he can look like a world beater one play and unsteady and clunky the next. On passing plays he sets up well and gets into his stance quickly, but he looks like he's thinking sometimes and will tend to lunge and miss on plays that require zone blocking. He looks like he struggles in space at times and other times he looks fluid on the move. My guess is it's a mental thing, if a play breaks down or doesn't go as drawn he looks lost at times.
Against Wisconsin he looks lost half the time, plays OK but for a #9 pick he looks like he needs more technique work. On some passing plays he locks on and dominates, on others he seems to bend at the waist and reach and lose his balance, he is on the ground too often for my taste but that's something that can be fixed with coaching. He certainly appears to have long arms capable of keeping pass rushers at bay but he doesn't always keep his feet under him and plays too narrow which kills his balance at times. Again, fixable with coaching.
The thing I like best about Collins so far is that he locks on so well in pass protection and on running plays that he erases his man and does a great job with positional blocking. He's not going to blow anyone off the LOS, but he gets in position quickly and locks on well enough to be a good zone blocking OL. If McAdoo boots Coughlin's running plays and sticks to zone plays that the WCO uses he'll be more valuable than if we stick with that mish mash running attack we used last year.
He is quick out of his stance and has has a smooth kickslide. He is on balance and ready to 'punch' or 'catch' as needed.
Apparently the Giants heavily scouted Peat's Pro Day(JR attended) and now we know they met with Collins. I wonder of they are simply dotting their 'I's' in preparation for taking the best offensive lineman left at #40 if things break that way.
"He's not going to blow anyone off the LOS, but he gets in position quickly and locks on well enough to be a good zone blocking OL."
Wonder if that goes to my comment re. legs looking spindly, that maybe he does not have so much power/bulk in his bottom half
He's definitely middle heavy, with narrowing legs at the bottom. He's Peat's opposite body wise, Peat is like a tree stump with an enormous lower body. He's steadier in pass pro for sure and rarely off balance.
He is quick out of his stance and has has a smooth kickslide. He is on balance and ready to 'punch' or 'catch' as needed.
Apparently the Giants heavily scouted Peat's Pro Day(JR attended) and now we know they met with Collins. I wonder of they are simply dotting their 'I's' in preparation for taking the best offensive lineman left at #40 if things break that way.
Agreed, that's Scherff's biggest weakness but he has the power to redirect if he gets caught flat footed. This group is really rock paper scissors, no one sure fire OT stands out above the rest so it appears whatever JR and company value is what will make the pick. Is it play now, play multiple spots, ceiling, floor? It's going to be an agonizing wait and then someone will fall and we'll go Cooper or Waynes and all this will be for naught.
Cooper would be great, I can't see how he falls to 9 though. I think Scherff is the safest OL pick because he can kick inside or play RT if he's not LT material. I think Martin's success last year can push us towards Scherff, but I think the Pugh pick may nudge Reese and Ross to higher AA/ceiling. Thank God I'm not making the pick, as much as I bag on them for the state of this roster, what a pressure packed moment at that pick.
Didn't know he was up 15 pounds...like you said...could be good/bad depending on specifics.
Joey, that is indeed the weird thing about weights and even 40 times...sometimes the real-world measurables seem different on the playing field. Some people play bigger/smaller or faster/slower...
There are so many variables to the OL here.
I'm with Joey...as I've said before...this line needs an attitude player...someone who will grab an opponent by the throat and elevate the entire unit's toughness. That's why Scherff intrigues me. Plus he has the size, plus he has the versatility to play guard or tackle...plus his 3-cone score intrigues me.
But there are a lot variables here... do the Giants want to become a more true WCO "finesse" offense with better pass protectors so they don't have to leave extra guys in to pass protect? (Collin has talked about this). If so, they may go with less toughness and better athletes. Where do they really want Pugh (or does it really matter to them)?
Or does Reese factor into the equation that the entire coaching staff may be fired after the end of the season and therefore not worry about scheme?
another consideration RE: scheme - zone or power? We did both last year, but more zone. Zone usually goes w/a West Coast Offense. (less FB).
......yet the schwartz pickup was a pure power player
If we continue to move towards more zone run game, Scherff at RT makes a lot of sense. (He played LT at Iowa in a pure zone scheme). we seem to have collected more zone/finesse blockers with pugh, beatty and even richburg, who is known more for his mobility than power.
RE: The only thing I like better about Collins vs Scherff is his kickslide
What I thought was a bit disconcerting was that Pugh said after the season that they were shifting between schemes DURING the season. Pick something and go with it.
look at our offense the first 3 weeks. where the f#ck did that go???? i think when jennings went down we had to scrap everything because we couldn't run outside anymore. i know williams gets a lot of positive talk but i thought he was pretty bad. 1-dimensional.
Most consider him a RT. They normally don't go top 10. The draft up top is weak on Olineman. We would be better off going pass rusher at 9. Then going for either Marpet or Cann at 40.
Id also love to take a chance on Cedric Ogbuehi at 40. Yes he is coming off an injury, but a lot of people considered him top 10 before the injury.
It is foolhardy to risk a 1st or 2nd rd pick on a player who isn't healthy! IMO.
What I thought was a bit disconcerting was that Pugh said after the season that they were shifting between schemes DURING the season. Pick something and go with it.
is why i say collins as they dont seam to know themselves who they want where and collins has the best flexibility of all the OL at the top of the draft. he could play game 1 at RT at either of the OG spots and possibly be a LT if he bulked up a bit so would provide them an option if they decide to move on from beatty
if they arent going OL at 9 i hope they have a DE in mind as OL and DE are needs 1a and 1b on this team followed by safety and nickle/slot corner they dont need a RB,dont need a WR or DT could use a LB to groom for the future in the later rounds
drug problems allowed manningham to fall to the giants in round 2 in the past so maybe gregorys failed test gives them a shot at him in round 2 now?
What I thought was a bit disconcerting was that Pugh said after the season that they were shifting between schemes DURING the season. Pick something and go with it.
Williams said the same thing and it showed up on the field a lot. Coughlin needs to hand McAdoo the keys and GTFO of the way. Let him implement the entire running game, no need for holdover anything.
Link - ( New Window )
I think he'll be there at 9. The question is whether they'll think he's the BPA.
Id also love to take a chance on Cedric Ogbuehi at 40. Yes he is coming off an injury, but a lot of people considered him top 10 before the injury.
Preston and Devin Smith in the second round. Marpet in the third. Safety in the fourth. Zach Zenner at 5. Kicker in the sixth. Pot luck/BPA at both 7s.
Danielle Hunter fits the DE mold we prefer, long and athletic. He could be 'in play' at #40.
No on really excites me at 9 unless White or a Cooper is still there. I doubt that though.
they have in recent drafts used visits to scope out alternatives to the guy they are planning on picking
and to shroud who they are looking at
So, short arms?
Surprised I have seen no one even mention that yesterday Collins was 15 pounds heavier than at the Combine. That is quite a change in one month.
That could be a good or bad thing.
hmmm, as opposed to sending only Ross (gaaakkk) to watch Peat last week. Maybe this is misdirection, but I sure hope a Peat decision is not in Ross's lap alone.
Also, to Eric's comment that Collins (the La'el kind) is the same size as Pugh, which is not so great to start with, in the pic don't Collins' legs look a bit spindly for such a big man?
Yankees, are you the same poster as Yankees78, but you retired 78?
Yes but no. This is going to sound idiotic, but Collins looks bigger, I don't know if its overall bulk, arm length or what but he looks bigger than Pugh.
Collins lacks some polish, he can look like a world beater one play and unsteady and clunky the next. On passing plays he sets up well and gets into his stance quickly, but he looks like he's thinking sometimes and will tend to lunge and miss on plays that require zone blocking. He looks like he struggles in space at times and other times he looks fluid on the move. My guess is it's a mental thing, if a play breaks down or doesn't go as drawn he looks lost at times.
Against Wisconsin he looks lost half the time, plays OK but for a #9 pick he looks like he needs more technique work. On some passing plays he locks on and dominates, on others he seems to bend at the waist and reach and lose his balance, he is on the ground too often for my taste but that's something that can be fixed with coaching. He certainly appears to have long arms capable of keeping pass rushers at bay but he doesn't always keep his feet under him and plays too narrow which kills his balance at times. Again, fixable with coaching.
The thing I like best about Collins so far is that he locks on so well in pass protection and on running plays that he erases his man and does a great job with positional blocking. He's not going to blow anyone off the LOS, but he gets in position quickly and locks on well enough to be a good zone blocking OL. If McAdoo boots Coughlin's running plays and sticks to zone plays that the WCO uses he'll be more valuable than if we stick with that mish mash running attack we used last year.
I hope it's a matter of time before Wells takes over as OL coach, Flaherty drives me nuts.
Wonder if that goes to my comment re. legs looking spindly, that maybe he does not have so much power/bulk in his bottom half
Apparently the Giants heavily scouted Peat's Pro Day(JR attended) and now we know they met with Collins. I wonder of they are simply dotting their 'I's' in preparation for taking the best offensive lineman left at #40 if things break that way.
Wonder if that goes to my comment re. legs looking spindly, that maybe he does not have so much power/bulk in his bottom half
He's definitely middle heavy, with narrowing legs at the bottom. He's Peat's opposite body wise, Peat is like a tree stump with an enormous lower body. He's steadier in pass pro for sure and rarely off balance.
Pugh is a technician w/very little explosion to his game
Apparently the Giants heavily scouted Peat's Pro Day(JR attended) and now we know they met with Collins. I wonder of they are simply dotting their 'I's' in preparation for taking the best offensive lineman left at #40 if things break that way.
Agreed, that's Scherff's biggest weakness but he has the power to redirect if he gets caught flat footed. This group is really rock paper scissors, no one sure fire OT stands out above the rest so it appears whatever JR and company value is what will make the pick. Is it play now, play multiple spots, ceiling, floor? It's going to be an agonizing wait and then someone will fall and we'll go Cooper or Waynes and all this will be for naught.
Didn't know he was up 15 pounds...like you said...could be good/bad depending on specifics.
Joey, that is indeed the weird thing about weights and even 40 times...sometimes the real-world measurables seem different on the playing field. Some people play bigger/smaller or faster/slower...
There are so many variables to the OL here.
I'm with Joey...as I've said before...this line needs an attitude player...someone who will grab an opponent by the throat and elevate the entire unit's toughness. That's why Scherff intrigues me. Plus he has the size, plus he has the versatility to play guard or tackle...plus his 3-cone score intrigues me.
But there are a lot variables here... do the Giants want to become a more true WCO "finesse" offense with better pass protectors so they don't have to leave extra guys in to pass protect? (Collin has talked about this). If so, they may go with less toughness and better athletes. Where do they really want Pugh (or does it really matter to them)?
Or does Reese factor into the equation that the entire coaching staff may be fired after the end of the season and therefore not worry about scheme?
another consideration RE: scheme - zone or power? We did both last year, but more zone. Zone usually goes w/a West Coast Offense. (less FB).
......yet the schwartz pickup was a pure power player
If we continue to move towards more zone run game, Scherff at RT makes a lot of sense. (He played LT at Iowa in a pure zone scheme). we seem to have collected more zone/finesse blockers with pugh, beatty and even richburg, who is known more for his mobility than power.
Apparently the Giants heavily scouted Peat's Pro Day(JR attended)
The report was that Marc Ross attended Stanford Pro Day not Reese
Marc Ross at Stanford Pro Day - ( New Window )
Id also love to take a chance on Cedric Ogbuehi at 40. Yes he is coming off an injury, but a lot of people considered him top 10 before the injury.
It is foolhardy to risk a 1st or 2nd rd pick on a player who isn't healthy! IMO.
Eric I believe the reason for this is that it is something similar to what Green Bay does..
Green Bay Blocking Scheme - ( New Window )
if they arent going OL at 9 i hope they have a DE in mind as OL and DE are needs 1a and 1b on this team followed by safety and nickle/slot corner they dont need a RB,dont need a WR or DT could use a LB to groom for the future in the later rounds
drug problems allowed manningham to fall to the giants in round 2 in the past so maybe gregorys failed test gives them a shot at him in round 2 now?
Williams said the same thing and it showed up on the field a lot. Coughlin needs to hand McAdoo the keys and GTFO of the way. Let him implement the entire running game, no need for holdover anything.