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What does Giant lack of interest for OL in FA tell us?

Coach Mason : 3/28/2015 11:24 am
As opposed to Safety where according to multiple reports we either came close or matched some of the parameters of the 28.5 million dollar guaranteed contract that McCourty got, we barely heard rumblings for any of the top OL available guys. Very little pursuit ,no serious interest in Orlando Franklin, Clint Boling, Derek Newton.

Maybe a couple snippets hear and there about someone we MAY be interested in but no further.

Trying to read the tea leaves here which is common around this point of the offseason , what can we infer from this?


1. Giants are satisfied and have strong expectations for 4 of the 5 spots on the line. Right or wrong, let's take a closer look as to what they possibly see:

In the last few years or so, they have invested 2-2nd round picks (Beatty/Richburg), 1- 1st round pick (Pugh) and paid for one of the top OGs on the market just last year (Schwartz).

On a side note, Reese may have rode the Diehl-Snee-Ohara-Seubert-McKenzie line a little too long but he has certainly spent premium resources in the last few years to fix the OL and ownership recognizes this.

Health, youth and learning curve seemed to be the issue last year more than anything else. Lastly, Giants worst starter in 2014 Walton will be replaced by a 2nd year Richburg at his more natural position of C now.

Versatility breakdown:
2 guys who can play RT- Schwartz and Pugh
4 guys who can play OG- Schwartz, Pugh, Richburg,Jerry (albeit maybe not at a high level)
2 guys who can play OC- Richburg,Jones (hopefully)
1 , maybe 2 guys who can play LT- Beatty (who can only play LT, and a bit injury prone), Pugh (don't know the Giants current view on him at LT but I'd say it would be emergency only)

Note: Newhouse is a Charles Brown level signing and for emergency purposes only so I have not included him in the breakdown above.

With all that stated, I would say the biggest need here is a guy who can play RT year 1 but also possess quality LT versatility for down the road (or injury to Beatty) and then move Pugh inside next year.


2.The last spot can be filled in the draft with a cost-controlled 'plug-and-play' OL as the draft is extremely deep in red-chip prospects.

If the Giants have anywhere near similar grades on the bevy of OL prospects, it is a near slam dunk they can get a plug and play guy up to round 2 and possibly even round 3.

However, If I was guessing with all the interest we are hearing about with many of our top execs at the top OL's pro-days,
it is likely we go round 1 and Collins (who has been talked about a little less than Scherff and Peat) is most definitely in the mix. We have a strong LSU connection and Lunda Wells actually took over the position drills to work out Collins.
Teams apparently are also telling him they believe he can play LEFT tackle (see link below). Of course this could change should a guy in a higher tier like perhaps Amari Cooper,Kevin White, or Beasley were to make it to 9.

But the Giants right or wrong, have historically preferred their mid to high round 1 OL to have LT versatility. LT's are the hardest to find in FA, cost the most and the top ones are almost always gobbled up top half of round 1 each and every year. With Scherff's sick 7.07 3-cone (a drill the Giants do consider important) , what were hearing about Collins now, in addition to Peat who may be the best pure Left tackle of the bunch, there might be 3 guys that they believe could play either LT or RT at a high level.


My take:

While my personal preference maybe to go OL at 40 with one of Parker,White or Cooper at 9, I think the Giants are likely taking the OL at 9 unless someone unexpected drops and no later than 40.

Collins in the mix - ( New Window )
tells  
NYGTBlair : 3/28/2015 11:26 am : link
me that they are not going to overpay for mediocre talent. Props to them.
It tells us that O-Line is....  
Emlen'sGremlins : 3/28/2015 11:29 am : link
....The Pick At 9. Scherrf Or Collins.
The only problem I see with a lot of people  
Gman11 : 3/28/2015 11:39 am : link
analyzing the OL is they refer to Schwartz as being a good player. The guy is a journeyman. He was on 4 different teams in 4 years and the only reason it isn't 5 out of 5 is who would want an injured journeyman. He only started 16 games once in his career. The year before the Giants picked him up he only started 7 games for KC, none for the Vikings the year before. This guy coming back from injury is no savior for the offensive line.
It tells  
Bones : 3/28/2015 11:39 am : link
Me that they will draft a OL in the first or second round. I believe they will trade with Cleveland (pick number 12) and receive an extra 4th rounder (Cleveland will get the best WR left at pick 9) we will then take either OL Collins to play LG, then move to T later, or Bud Dupree from KY. If we go with Dupree, we'll probably draft Tre Jackson from Fla ST in round 2, and sign an Ernie Sims type stop gap G to protect ourselves in case Jackson struggles. I don't believe we will move Pugh to G.
RE: It tells us that O-Line is....  
Coach Mason : 3/28/2015 11:40 am : link
In comment 12207792 Emlen'sGremlins said:
Quote:
....The Pick At 9. Scherrf Or Collins.


Depending on who falls I don't know how much I will like it. I see the logic in it but I just don't see this group of OL as strong as some previous years.

I bring up these guys alot as they are good examples and guys we were clearly interested in but there is no Lewan, Tyron Smith or Solder in this group.

That long wiry-strong and amazingly nimble LT versatile type OL we normally love. Maybe one of Peat,Scherff or Collins will ultimately prove me wrong but to go for one of these guys at 9 I really want to see elite LT ability.

Haven't they signed 4 FA OL  
BillT : 3/28/2015 11:41 am : link
And FA isn't over yet. Doesn't seem like a lack of interest to me. The ones they have signed seem like backups but that's ok. I still think there is another FA OL starter coming like a Wisniewski ot a Blalock.
RE: The only problem I see with a lot of people  
Coach Mason : 3/28/2015 11:42 am : link
In comment 12207801 Gman11 said:
Quote:
analyzing the OL is they refer to Schwartz as being a good player. The guy is a journeyman. He was on 4 different teams in 4 years and the only reason it isn't 5 out of 5 is who would want an injured journeyman. He only started 16 games once in his career. The year before the Giants picked him up he only started 7 games for KC, none for the Vikings the year before. This guy coming back from injury is no savior for the offensive line.


Gman, again right or wrong, the Giants invested 4mill/year in him and generally give a guy a few years before giving up on them.

Schwartz in limited time did look pretty good. I'm taking the optimist's view but if healthy he should be a pretty player on the line for us.
Tells me they like the Jones kid more than most of BBI  
BlueLou : 3/28/2015 11:42 am : link
thinks.






Maybe.
RE: Haven't they signed 4 FA OL  
Coach Mason : 3/28/2015 11:45 am : link
In comment 12207805 BillT said:
Quote:
And FA isn't over yet. Doesn't seem like a lack of interest to me. The ones they have signed seem like backups but that's ok. I still think there is another FA OL starter coming like a Wisniewski ot a Blalock.


None are starter quality. There is still a gaping hole for 5th starter. The closest to a potential quality starter would be Jones who is a total unknown coming from the CFL and is facing a big adjustment next year.
Coach  
mako J : 3/28/2015 11:46 am : link
I think you bring up a great point that I believe is a factor, but no one is mentioning.

The moment Schwartz returned to the field, the staff sat Pugh and Schwartz started at RT. Now, it can be said Pugh was banged up and Schwartz to RT was necessity, but I believe it was design.

Schwartz can play RT, and he provides a Kareem like presence in the run game at that position. Eli, has proven over the years, whether Kareem or Diehl, the ability to handle pressure from his right.

My opinion, Pugh to OG, Schwartz to RT and they go BPA defense or WR at 9.

They'll get a solid OG in 2-3 to compete for the other OG spot.
Sounds like they weren't impressed  
LakeGeorgeGiant : 3/28/2015 11:47 am : link
with this FA class in general and didn't want to overpay.
RE: RE: Haven't they signed 4 FA OL  
BillT : 3/28/2015 11:48 am : link
In comment 12207810 Coach Mason said:
Quote:
In comment 12207805 BillT said:


Quote:


And FA isn't over yet. Doesn't seem like a lack of interest to me. The ones they have signed seem like backups but that's ok. I still think there is another FA OL starter coming like a Wisniewski ot a Blalock.



None are starter quality. There is still a gaping hole for 5th starter. The closest to a potential quality starter would be Jones who is a total unknown coming from the CFL and is facing a big adjustment next year.


Isn't that just what I said?
Also  
LakeGeorgeGiant : 3/28/2015 11:50 am : link
while I would have liked to see them pursue Franklin or Boling I never understood why so many were beating the drum so heavy for Derek Newton, that guy just doesn't impress me.
Bill there is a reason the guys who are left out there  
Coach Mason : 3/28/2015 11:57 am : link
are still on the market.
I agree.....  
Doomster : 3/28/2015 11:57 am : link
It will be Beatty-Draft pick/FA-Richburg-Schwartz-Pugh,

or

Beatty-Pugh-Richburg-Schwartz-Draft pick/FA....

I have not ruled out a free agent yet, because of two things.....there might still be a high cap Olman that may still be cut, that could fill the role, and there is still a possibility, that one of the WR's might be there at #9, or dare I say a qb that someone might want, and offer a OLman and a pick.....

Reese has tried to fix the OL in the last two years, but it is still debateable if he has.....

Beatty is average at best....he still is beat by speed rushers and makes mental mistakes, which should not happen....

Schwartz may have been one of the better OLmen available in FAcy, but he was nothing spectacular.....and showed absolutely nothing at LG, questioning why he was put there in the first place.....At RG, we have to hope he plays way better.....

We are all assuming Richburg will be lights out at center....he has to be better than Walton, but how much better?

Pugh, can he play LG if we land a RT? Or if we get a LG, can he play RT? WE over rated him as a rookie, mainly because the rest of the line sucked.....he was counted on last season, and he came up short, either due to injury(he did not play well right from the start, in the first preseason game), or maybe he was not first round material.....

I have high hopes that we get that 5th OLman....that we avoid the injury bug....that Donnell somehow becomes a better blocker, or possibly Robinson.....that Cruz, comes along slowly(PUP'd if necessary) to form.....another season with this offense, and Eli has a RB that he can throw to on 3rd down.....it's funny though, that Eli can thread the needle 50 yards down the field, but is not as accurate to RB's, 5-10 yards away....

I'm expecting big things from this offense....not so much the defense......If the offense clicks, the playoffs are not out of the question.....if it doesn't, then it's another TC 8-8, +/-1 season, non playoff season again......
So much is riding on  
rocco8112 : 3/28/2015 12:01 pm : link
Richburg and Pugh. Both better turn out to be foundation type starters or the Giants are screwed.
I do hope that they realize this and that putting a real NFL line around Eli is the biggest step to another title.

With a top ten pick you have to go BPA because if you are actually running the franchise correctly you should not have another crack at a top ten guy for many seasons.

That said I would be happy if they get a big time o lineman with the pick. A foundation guy to build around.
RE: Bill there is a reason the guys who are left out there  
BillT : 3/28/2015 12:09 pm : link
In comment 12207827 Coach Mason said:
Quote:
are still on the market.


What? Wisniewski and Blalock aren't legit starters in this league? They've both been fooling a lot of people for a long time if that's true.
Tells us nothing  
Torrag : 3/28/2015 12:13 pm : link
Read the tea leaves if you care to but there is nothing you can credibly infer from free agent activity or the lack thereof imo. Could be they don't like talent on the market...could be they didn't like the prices when they inquired of agents.

What we do KNOW is the head coach isn't satisfied. TC said as much in his interview this week. This from Pat at Inside Football...

'Contemplating writing a letter to Giants management about the current state of the offensive line?

No need. Head coach Tom Coughlin shares the sentiments that a majority of fans hold bout that unit.

“We are trying to improve.'… We do have a ways to go,” he said.'
RE: Tells us nothing  
BillT : 3/28/2015 12:16 pm : link
In comment 12207846 Torrag said:
Quote:
Read the tea leaves if you care to but there is nothing you can credibly infer from free agent activity or the lack thereof imo. Could be they don't like talent on the market...could be they didn't like the prices when they inquired of agents.

What we do KNOW is the head coach isn't satisfied. TC said as much in his interview this week. This from Pat at Inside Football...

'Contemplating writing a letter to Giants management about the current state of the offensive line?

No need. Head coach Tom Coughlin shares the sentiments that a majority of fans hold bout that unit.

“We are trying to improve.'… We do have a ways to go,” he said.'


Exactly. And why I think another FA OL is still likely.
Tells me..  
Chris in Philly : 3/28/2015 12:18 pm : link
the FA class sucks.
RE: Tells us nothing  
Coach Mason : 3/28/2015 12:23 pm : link
In comment 12207846 Torrag said:
Quote:
Read the tea leaves if you care to but there is nothing you can credibly infer from free agent activity or the lack thereof imo. Could be they don't like talent on the market...could be they didn't like the prices when they inquired of agents.

What we do KNOW is the head coach isn't satisfied. TC said as much in his interview this week. This from Pat at Inside Football...

'Contemplating writing a letter to Giants management about the current state of the offensive line?

No need. Head coach Tom Coughlin shares the sentiments that a majority of fans hold bout that unit.

“We are trying to improve.'… We do have a ways to go,” he said.'


Torrag, you are correct that there could be other factors involved. However guess the big point is, without a FA starter brought in there is one spot on the line wide-open. And with all the interest we've shown in the pro-days, Mara's and TC's comments, very likely it's going to be round 1 or 2.
Good post  
TMS : 3/28/2015 12:34 pm : link
well defended and logical. A day one RT could turn our OL completely around this year. Those were JRs marching orders last year. Fix the offense.
Coach I hope it is and agree it's a smart move if it happens  
Torrag : 3/28/2015 12:37 pm : link
It doesn't necessarily need in depth analysis of free agent activity to reach that conclusion though. Just look at the roster and read Coughlin's interview this week.
Everything you needed to know about the OL  
Giants2012 : 3/28/2015 12:40 pm : link
occurred at the end of the 2013 season. They had Lewan and Martin rated right behind OBJ, they then went Richburg and CLEARLY spoke the LOS at the end of the season.

The lack of FA signings for OL didn't change anything except for perhaps the percpetions of a few who felt otherwise.
No Depth  
jbeintherockies : 3/28/2015 12:47 pm : link
Quote:
Versatility breakdown:
2 guys who can play RT- Schwartz and Pugh
4 guys who can play OG- Schwartz, Pugh, Richburg,Jerry (albeit maybe not at a high level)
2 guys who can play OC- Richburg,Jones (hopefully)
1 , maybe 2 guys who can play LT- Beatty (who can only play LT, and a bit injury prone), Pugh (don't know the Giants current view on him at LT but I'd say it would be emergency only)

Note: Newhouse is a Charles Brown level signing and for emergency purposes only so I have not included him in the breakdown above.

Out of that list, you really only have two guys that you know for sure can play: Pugh and Beatty.

You know Schwartz can play, but can he play a full season?

You think Richburg can play center in the NFL; but you don't know for sure.

Jones, and everyone else on the offensive line depth chart, might be able to play at the NFL level; but you don't know for sure. By the time you find out, it is too late.

You plan for the worst and hope for the best. With this roster of offensive linemen, you better hope injuries don't hit the o-line.

I remember way back when Glenn Parker was with the Giants. One of the things he said, and I never forgot it, was rookies don't know all of the little tricks of the trade. They don't know how to do arm-bars, they don't know how to hold and get away with it, there are blitzes and stunts that they have never seen, etc. They are rookies. NFL veterans do know those little things, which is probably why they are still playing in the NFL.

You need veteran depth to go along with the young guys that need time to develop. I don't see that with the Giants offensive line or approach to building an offensive line. I see that approach with the defensive line, but not the offensive line.
RE: It tells us that O-Line is....  
Giantology : 3/28/2015 12:47 pm : link
In comment 12207792 Emlen'sGremlins said:
Quote:
....The Pick At 9. Scherrf Or Collins.


No, that's just what you keep telling everyone.
Tells us  
JonC : 3/28/2015 12:48 pm : link
they didn't really want a pricey UFA, and they're loading up the scouting on the draft OL crop (Snee and others lending a hand).
it tells me  
CGiants07 : 3/28/2015 1:10 pm : link
we didn't have much cap room so we aren't overpaying when same quality player will cost much less after the draft. Says nothing about there thoughts on the draft as they go best player on there board
At this time there isn't one player  
LauderdaleMatty : 3/28/2015 1:29 pm : link
On the OL that is even remotely a top tier player in the bunch. That being said
there may not me a bigger Reese detractor than I on this site but he was very smart this offseason The FA crop was thin and overpaying would not solve this OLs issues. I want Beasley in Rd but I cant imagine them passing on Peat or Scherff of their top playmakers are gone. Regardless they will take at least one OL in The first 3 rounds and trot out that guy was their top rated player at that point

Coach Mason...  
M.S. : 3/28/2015 2:30 pm : link

...our O-line did a fairly decent (not great) job of pass protection and was just about dead last in run blocking.

IMO, it is pass blocking that requires time and coordination -- more so than in the run blocking game.

Run blocking requires the type of physical and athletic linemen that this team just doesn't possess.

That tells me we could well go O-line at #9... or no later than #40.
I think they want to build the OL  
Reb8thVA : 3/28/2015 2:45 pm : link
With a young core group thought the draft that will be together for a long time, Pugh, Richburg, and maybe Scherff
I'm hoping we address the defense with the first 3 picks  
WillieYoung : 3/28/2015 2:51 pm : link
We gave up over 25 points in 9 games last year and lost 8 of them.
When Mara said this was a mediocre Free Agency class  
Headhunter : 3/28/2015 2:52 pm : link
he must of been talking specifically about the Olineman. Doesn't mean they will reach for an Olineman.
Tells me  
tomjgiant : 3/28/2015 3:19 pm : link
they know that that there is going to be one there at 9 who will be worthy of the selection.
Remember Sean Locklear?  
Samiam : 3/28/2015 3:35 pm : link
The Giants brought him in - the very definition of journeyman. He played real well for the Giants until he got hurt and career ended. But, for the time that he played, I think filling in for Diehl, the line played well. If you pick up the right free agent, and it doesn't have to cost alot, get some games under your belt as a unit, which means staying healthy, this Ol can be productive. Also, the offense is way different now that it was in 2007 and 2011 when the OL was real good. With the McAdoo offense, the OL does not have to hold the blocks nearly as long as they did with the Gilbride offense. Plus, I think the signing of Vereen might mean that the team will look to throw the ball to him in short yardage with the offense spread out.

To the point of the thread, Schwartz may be the free agent that is the add on. he was out pretty much the whole year so it's almost like a new player. Also, because Charles Brown sucked doesn't mean Newhouse will suck. In fact, I suspect that McAdoo would have had something to say about the signing since he saw him play year before last. Last, I know I read that Jerry graded out better than popular opinion based on last years performance. Maybe they decided that for the money, Jerry is much better value than the available free agents. Which one of these free agents, all of whom were expensive, were that good anyway. Plus, there are lots of good Ols in this years draft.
Jerry is inconsistent  
DavidinBMNY : 3/28/2015 3:42 pm : link
That may not have been his fault, but he had some bad games.

I personally would love if the GMEN could blow guys off the line. That's the most appealing thing to me about Scherf. But they need to go BPA @ 9. If it's Scherf so be it. They can get an OL at 40.
Coach Mason  
Nomad Crow on the Madison : 3/28/2015 3:45 pm : link
You don't get elite LT at #9. You need to have a top 5 pick to get that player. Remember Jonathan Ogden? We had the fifth pick, and he went 4th. We get Cedric "One-Eye" Jones!

We are desperate for young, talented, TOUGH OL. We can get that in this draft -- at #9 and again at #40 or #74. We need depth and youth and toughness on the OL. Until we have that, we will not be competitive.
I think  
PaulN : 3/28/2015 4:09 pm : link
We will see 2 OLinemen picked in the first 4 rounds, that is my opinion on why they did nothing, you can not pay every lineman big money, cost is controlled if you can start rookies and second year players to develop. I would look for the Giants to grab a lineman in rounds 1 or 2, then again in rounds 3 or 4. I think they will add a safety and pass rusher also at the top 4 picks of this draft.
The wildcards  
PaulN : 3/28/2015 4:12 pm : link
Are the 3 big receivers, they are 3 elite receivers and that could change things for the Giants, I hear good things about Cruz, but that may be smoke. The other things is a trade down, to get another pick in the top 4 rounds would be huge, if they can add a player they like and add a pick, that would be a really good bonus.
I agree  
I wanna be Torbor, sucka : 3/28/2015 4:26 pm : link
that it says they did not love the FA crop. But I don't think it means you will see an o-lineman in rounds 1-2. You cannot rely on the guy you want being there, or that a rookie can step in right away.

I do think the Giants will add another FA for depth, and possibly look to double-dip at oline in the draft, but I have no idea where those 2 picks will be. It would not surprise me to see the first olineman come in round 5. It should not surprise anyone who has repeated the Giants BPA mantra.
RE: I'm hoping we address the defense with the first 3 picks  
dguy901 : 3/28/2015 5:05 pm : link
In comment 12208106 WillieYoung said:
Quote:
We gave up over 25 points in 9 games last year and lost 8 of them.

I would be ecstatic if that is what actually happened! JPP's situation makes a DE early a requirement. We all hope Wynn and Moore turn out to be studs but, JPP hasn't been one of the most durable players regardless of him signing a new contract or not. Depth behind Hankins and Bromley (I expect him to step-up this year) doesn't leave me with a warm fuzzy feeling at DT. And it would be wise to select a FS RD#3 or 4 at the latest.
There is reason to be optimistic with the unproven OL prospects currently on the roster. Bamiro is huge and looked good on college tape as a RT, Herman was a road grader in college and Jones looks like he could be an eventual starter. JMHO.
RE: It tells us that O-Line is....  
djm : 3/28/2015 6:02 pm : link
In comment 12207792 Emlen'sGremlins said:
Quote:
....The Pick At 9. Scherrf Or Collins.


No it doesn't. But your post tells me that you and many others will be flipping out if reese doesn't take the OL in round 1.
RE: RE: It tells us that O-Line is....  
eli4life : 3/28/2015 6:13 pm : link
In comment 12208268 djm said:
Quote:
In comment 12207792 Emlen'sGremlins said:


Quote:


....The Pick At 9. Scherrf Or Collins.



No it doesn't. But your post tells me that you and many others will be flipping out if reese doesn't take the OL in round 1.


I kind of hope they don't for that exact reason
flippin out when Reese (DOESN'T) draft a OL @ 9  
chillinman1183 : 3/28/2015 6:47 pm : link
I can't wait!! :) Just to spite some of the Idiots on here that think they know the game of football,but really don't have a clue.
RE: flippin out when Reese (DOESN'T) draft a OL @ 9  
Giants2012 : 3/28/2015 8:11 pm : link
In comment 12208309 chillinman1183 said:
Quote:
I can't wait!! :) Just to spite some of the Idiots on here that think they know the game of football,but really don't have a clue.


Speaking of flipping out. Need a hug?
If the Giants trade down it will  
Kevin(formerly Tiki4Six) : 3/28/2015 8:22 pm : link
Be for way more than 4th rd pick ...
Tells Us  
Percy : 1:04 am : link
There are 5-6 OL guys available in the draft at 9/40 who almost certainly can start for the Giants next year. Isn't that enough of a reason?
RE: At this time there isn't one player  
mrvax : 9:10 am : link
In comment 12207980 LauderdaleMatty said:
Quote:
On the OL that is even remotely a top tier player in the bunch. That being said
there may not me a bigger Reese detractor than I on this site but he was very smart this offseason The FA crop was thin and overpaying would not solve this OLs issues. I want Beasley in Rd but I cant imagine them passing on Peat or Scherff of their top playmakers are gone. Regardless they will take at least one OL in The first 3 rounds and trot out that guy was their top rated player at that point


Agree 100%.
I don't believe NYG are penciling in an unidentified rookie to start.  
It might turn out that way. For now, though, the starting OL is either:
Beatty - Schwartz - Richburg - Jerry - Pugh
or:
Beatty - Pugh - Richburg - Schwartz - Newhouse
or (less likely, I think):
Beatty - Pugh - Richburg - Jerry - Schwartz

Ideally, Jerry and Newhouse will be depth. I'm not counting on it though.

So, what does the absence of a splashier OL signing tell us? Only that, for the money, none of the alternatives represented a sufficient upgrade over the prospect of Jerry at RG or Newhouse at RT. In other words, the Giants regarded the rest of the FA class as either crap or overpriced, or both.
BBB  
Coach Mason : 12:36 pm : link
With the Mara and Coughlin comments , I would be pretty surprised if we are not aiming for a plug and play starter in the draft. And that likely means 9 or 40.

4 of the 5 starters are accounted for but then a pretty big drop off in terms of expectations after that. When Jerry was brought in last year Reese said he was a depth signing. I don't think that has changed.

Giants have went into the draft before with a big immediate or short term future need and filled it in the first couple rounds a few times before.

Safety the value isn't there but OL will likely be relatively close to BPA at 9 (depending who falls) and very likely at 40.
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