As opposed to Safety where according to multiple reports we either came close or matched some of the parameters of the 28.5 million dollar guaranteed contract that McCourty got, we barely heard rumblings for any of the top OL available guys. Very little pursuit ,no serious interest in Orlando Franklin, Clint Boling, Derek Newton.
Maybe a couple snippets hear and there about someone we MAY be interested in but no further.
Trying to read the tea leaves here which is common around this point of the offseason , what can we infer from this?
1. Giants are satisfied and have strong expectations for 4 of the 5 spots on the line. Right or wrong, let's take a closer look as to what they possibly see:
In the last few years or so, they have invested 2-2nd round picks (Beatty/Richburg), 1- 1st round pick (Pugh) and paid for one of the top OGs on the market just last year (Schwartz).
On a side note, Reese may have rode the Diehl-Snee-Ohara-Seubert-McKenzie line a little too long but he has certainly spent premium resources in the last few years to fix the OL and ownership recognizes this.
Health, youth and learning curve seemed to be the issue last year more than anything else. Lastly, Giants worst starter in 2014 Walton will be replaced by a 2nd year Richburg at his more natural position of C now.
Versatility breakdown:
2 guys who can play RT- Schwartz and Pugh
4 guys who can play OG- Schwartz, Pugh, Richburg,Jerry (albeit maybe not at a high level)
2 guys who can play OC- Richburg,Jones (hopefully)
1 , maybe 2 guys who can play LT- Beatty (who can only play LT, and a bit injury prone), Pugh (don't know the Giants current view on him at LT but I'd say it would be emergency only)
Note: Newhouse is a Charles Brown level signing and for emergency purposes only so I have not included him in the breakdown above.
With all that stated, I would say the biggest need here is a guy who can play RT year 1 but also possess quality LT versatility for down the road (or injury to Beatty) and then move Pugh inside next year.
2.The last spot can be filled in the draft with a cost-controlled 'plug-and-play' OL as the draft is extremely deep in red-chip prospects.
If the Giants have anywhere near similar grades on the bevy of OL prospects, it is a near slam dunk they can get a plug and play guy up to round 2 and possibly even round 3.
However, If I was guessing with all the interest we are hearing about with many of our top execs at the top OL's pro-days,
it is likely we go round 1 and Collins (who has been talked about a little less than Scherff and Peat) is most definitely in the mix. We have a strong LSU connection and Lunda Wells actually took over the position drills to work out Collins.
Teams apparently are also telling him they believe he can play LEFT tackle (see link below). Of course this could change should a guy in a higher tier like perhaps Amari Cooper,Kevin White, or Beasley were to make it to 9.
But the Giants right or wrong, have historically preferred their mid to high round 1 OL to have LT versatility. LT's are the hardest to find in FA, cost the most and the top ones are almost always gobbled up top half of round 1 each and every year. With Scherff's sick 7.07 3-cone (a drill the Giants do consider important) , what were hearing about Collins now, in addition to Peat who may be the best pure Left tackle of the bunch, there might be 3 guys that they believe could play either LT or RT at a high level.
My take:
While my personal preference maybe to go OL at 40 with one of Parker,White or Cooper at 9, I think the Giants are likely taking the OL at 9 unless someone unexpected drops and no later than 40.
Collins in the mix - (
New Window )
Depending on who falls I don't know how much I will like it. I see the logic in it but I just don't see this group of OL as strong as some previous years.
I bring up these guys alot as they are good examples and guys we were clearly interested in but there is no Lewan, Tyron Smith or Solder in this group.
That long wiry-strong and amazingly nimble LT versatile type OL we normally love. Maybe one of Peat,Scherff or Collins will ultimately prove me wrong but to go for one of these guys at 9 I really want to see elite LT ability.
Gman, again right or wrong, the Giants invested 4mill/year in him and generally give a guy a few years before giving up on them.
Schwartz in limited time did look pretty good. I'm taking the optimist's view but if healthy he should be a pretty player on the line for us.
Maybe.
None are starter quality. There is still a gaping hole for 5th starter. The closest to a potential quality starter would be Jones who is a total unknown coming from the CFL and is facing a big adjustment next year.
The moment Schwartz returned to the field, the staff sat Pugh and Schwartz started at RT. Now, it can be said Pugh was banged up and Schwartz to RT was necessity, but I believe it was design.
Schwartz can play RT, and he provides a Kareem like presence in the run game at that position. Eli, has proven over the years, whether Kareem or Diehl, the ability to handle pressure from his right.
My opinion, Pugh to OG, Schwartz to RT and they go BPA defense or WR at 9.
They'll get a solid OG in 2-3 to compete for the other OG spot.
Quote:
And FA isn't over yet. Doesn't seem like a lack of interest to me. The ones they have signed seem like backups but that's ok. I still think there is another FA OL starter coming like a Wisniewski ot a Blalock.
None are starter quality. There is still a gaping hole for 5th starter. The closest to a potential quality starter would be Jones who is a total unknown coming from the CFL and is facing a big adjustment next year.
Isn't that just what I said?
or
Beatty-Pugh-Richburg-Schwartz-Draft pick/FA....
I have not ruled out a free agent yet, because of two things.....there might still be a high cap Olman that may still be cut, that could fill the role, and there is still a possibility, that one of the WR's might be there at #9, or dare I say a qb that someone might want, and offer a OLman and a pick.....
Reese has tried to fix the OL in the last two years, but it is still debateable if he has.....
Beatty is average at best....he still is beat by speed rushers and makes mental mistakes, which should not happen....
Schwartz may have been one of the better OLmen available in FAcy, but he was nothing spectacular.....and showed absolutely nothing at LG, questioning why he was put there in the first place.....At RG, we have to hope he plays way better.....
We are all assuming Richburg will be lights out at center....he has to be better than Walton, but how much better?
Pugh, can he play LG if we land a RT? Or if we get a LG, can he play RT? WE over rated him as a rookie, mainly because the rest of the line sucked.....he was counted on last season, and he came up short, either due to injury(he did not play well right from the start, in the first preseason game), or maybe he was not first round material.....
I have high hopes that we get that 5th OLman....that we avoid the injury bug....that Donnell somehow becomes a better blocker, or possibly Robinson.....that Cruz, comes along slowly(PUP'd if necessary) to form.....another season with this offense, and Eli has a RB that he can throw to on 3rd down.....it's funny though, that Eli can thread the needle 50 yards down the field, but is not as accurate to RB's, 5-10 yards away....
I'm expecting big things from this offense....not so much the defense......If the offense clicks, the playoffs are not out of the question.....if it doesn't, then it's another TC 8-8, +/-1 season, non playoff season again......
I do hope that they realize this and that putting a real NFL line around Eli is the biggest step to another title.
With a top ten pick you have to go BPA because if you are actually running the franchise correctly you should not have another crack at a top ten guy for many seasons.
That said I would be happy if they get a big time o lineman with the pick. A foundation guy to build around.
What? Wisniewski and Blalock aren't legit starters in this league? They've both been fooling a lot of people for a long time if that's true.
What we do KNOW is the head coach isn't satisfied. TC said as much in his interview this week. This from Pat at Inside Football...
'Contemplating writing a letter to Giants management about the current state of the offensive line?
No need. Head coach Tom Coughlin shares the sentiments that a majority of fans hold bout that unit.
“We are trying to improve.'… We do have a ways to go,” he said.'
What we do KNOW is the head coach isn't satisfied. TC said as much in his interview this week. This from Pat at Inside Football...
'Contemplating writing a letter to Giants management about the current state of the offensive line?
No need. Head coach Tom Coughlin shares the sentiments that a majority of fans hold bout that unit.
“We are trying to improve.'… We do have a ways to go,” he said.'
Exactly. And why I think another FA OL is still likely.
What we do KNOW is the head coach isn't satisfied. TC said as much in his interview this week. This from Pat at Inside Football...
'Contemplating writing a letter to Giants management about the current state of the offensive line?
No need. Head coach Tom Coughlin shares the sentiments that a majority of fans hold bout that unit.
“We are trying to improve.'… We do have a ways to go,” he said.'
Torrag, you are correct that there could be other factors involved. However guess the big point is, without a FA starter brought in there is one spot on the line wide-open. And with all the interest we've shown in the pro-days, Mara's and TC's comments, very likely it's going to be round 1 or 2.
The lack of FA signings for OL didn't change anything except for perhaps the percpetions of a few who felt otherwise.
2 guys who can play RT- Schwartz and Pugh
4 guys who can play OG- Schwartz, Pugh, Richburg,Jerry (albeit maybe not at a high level)
2 guys who can play OC- Richburg,Jones (hopefully)
1 , maybe 2 guys who can play LT- Beatty (who can only play LT, and a bit injury prone), Pugh (don't know the Giants current view on him at LT but I'd say it would be emergency only)
Note: Newhouse is a Charles Brown level signing and for emergency purposes only so I have not included him in the breakdown above.
Out of that list, you really only have two guys that you know for sure can play: Pugh and Beatty.
You know Schwartz can play, but can he play a full season?
You think Richburg can play center in the NFL; but you don't know for sure.
Jones, and everyone else on the offensive line depth chart, might be able to play at the NFL level; but you don't know for sure. By the time you find out, it is too late.
You plan for the worst and hope for the best. With this roster of offensive linemen, you better hope injuries don't hit the o-line.
I remember way back when Glenn Parker was with the Giants. One of the things he said, and I never forgot it, was rookies don't know all of the little tricks of the trade. They don't know how to do arm-bars, they don't know how to hold and get away with it, there are blitzes and stunts that they have never seen, etc. They are rookies. NFL veterans do know those little things, which is probably why they are still playing in the NFL.
You need veteran depth to go along with the young guys that need time to develop. I don't see that with the Giants offensive line or approach to building an offensive line. I see that approach with the defensive line, but not the offensive line.
No, that's just what you keep telling everyone.
there may not me a bigger Reese detractor than I on this site but he was very smart this offseason The FA crop was thin and overpaying would not solve this OLs issues. I want Beasley in Rd but I cant imagine them passing on Peat or Scherff of their top playmakers are gone. Regardless they will take at least one OL in The first 3 rounds and trot out that guy was their top rated player at that point
...our O-line did a fairly decent (not great) job of pass protection and was just about dead last in run blocking.
IMO, it is pass blocking that requires time and coordination -- more so than in the run blocking game.
Run blocking requires the type of physical and athletic linemen that this team just doesn't possess.
That tells me we could well go O-line at #9... or no later than #40.
To the point of the thread, Schwartz may be the free agent that is the add on. he was out pretty much the whole year so it's almost like a new player. Also, because Charles Brown sucked doesn't mean Newhouse will suck. In fact, I suspect that McAdoo would have had something to say about the signing since he saw him play year before last. Last, I know I read that Jerry graded out better than popular opinion based on last years performance. Maybe they decided that for the money, Jerry is much better value than the available free agents. Which one of these free agents, all of whom were expensive, were that good anyway. Plus, there are lots of good Ols in this years draft.
I personally would love if the GMEN could blow guys off the line. That's the most appealing thing to me about Scherf. But they need to go BPA @ 9. If it's Scherf so be it. They can get an OL at 40.
We are desperate for young, talented, TOUGH OL. We can get that in this draft -- at #9 and again at #40 or #74. We need depth and youth and toughness on the OL. Until we have that, we will not be competitive.
I do think the Giants will add another FA for depth, and possibly look to double-dip at oline in the draft, but I have no idea where those 2 picks will be. It would not surprise me to see the first olineman come in round 5. It should not surprise anyone who has repeated the Giants BPA mantra.
I would be ecstatic if that is what actually happened! JPP's situation makes a DE early a requirement. We all hope Wynn and Moore turn out to be studs but, JPP hasn't been one of the most durable players regardless of him signing a new contract or not. Depth behind Hankins and Bromley (I expect him to step-up this year) doesn't leave me with a warm fuzzy feeling at DT. And it would be wise to select a FS RD#3 or 4 at the latest.
There is reason to be optimistic with the unproven OL prospects currently on the roster. Bamiro is huge and looked good on college tape as a RT, Herman was a road grader in college and Jones looks like he could be an eventual starter. JMHO.
No it doesn't. But your post tells me that you and many others will be flipping out if reese doesn't take the OL in round 1.
Quote:
....The Pick At 9. Scherrf Or Collins.
No it doesn't. But your post tells me that you and many others will be flipping out if reese doesn't take the OL in round 1.
I kind of hope they don't for that exact reason
Speaking of flipping out. Need a hug?
there may not me a bigger Reese detractor than I on this site but he was very smart this offseason The FA crop was thin and overpaying would not solve this OLs issues. I want Beasley in Rd but I cant imagine them passing on Peat or Scherff of their top playmakers are gone. Regardless they will take at least one OL in The first 3 rounds and trot out that guy was their top rated player at that point
Agree 100%.
Beatty - Schwartz - Richburg - Jerry - Pugh
or:
Beatty - Pugh - Richburg - Schwartz - Newhouse
or (less likely, I think):
Beatty - Pugh - Richburg - Jerry - Schwartz
Ideally, Jerry and Newhouse will be depth. I'm not counting on it though.
So, what does the absence of a splashier OL signing tell us? Only that, for the money, none of the alternatives represented a sufficient upgrade over the prospect of Jerry at RG or Newhouse at RT. In other words, the Giants regarded the rest of the FA class as either crap or overpriced, or both.
4 of the 5 starters are accounted for but then a pretty big drop off in terms of expectations after that. When Jerry was brought in last year Reese said he was a depth signing. I don't think that has changed.
Giants have went into the draft before with a big immediate or short term future need and filled it in the first couple rounds a few times before.
Safety the value isn't there but OL will likely be relatively close to BPA at 9 (depending who falls) and very likely at 40.