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Slow Saturday: Could Giants have big bounce-back in 2015?

Coach Mason : 3/28/2015 12:17 pm

Let's first talk O:

With half season learning curve in year 1 of MacAdoo's system, an offensive line young and in-flux, and battling health issues all year, our offense finished 11th and Eli posted the 2nd best numbers of his entire 10 year career.

This is not even considering that this offense as a unit lacks the collective overall talent that many of it's predecessors had in the TC/Eli era. Contrary to the lack of big moves thus far, I think the future is bright here in year 2 of MacAdoo's system.

On defense, health and system played a huge detrimental role as well. Spagnuolo comes back a second time to hopefully replicate what he did the first time which was replacing the previous coordinator's system with one that utilizes the personnel more appropriately.

He will likely feature an attacking in your face style defense which better complements our players skillsets and dictates the pace rather than the read-and-react of Fewell.

A better system and/or coaching raises ALL 11 players level of play incrementally.

That could make Spagnuolo the key signing this off-season more than any individual player.

Perhaps another reason for lack of big changes this FA is the Giants sat back and re-evaluated the season performance then right or wrong, determined much of the issues weren't as personnel related as they were health and system related.

We had the most missed games by players in the entire league. Fewell defense was not a good fit and did not know how to adjust and MacAdoo's system took half a season to grasp especially for the OL.

Barring a flurry of late activity in FA, Giants are going to battle with a pretty similar team to last year. We will see if Reese's faith in the roster was well-placed.

On the Reese front, no GM is perfect and Jerry's imperfections aren't as bad when you compare him to the rest of the field.

BBI'ers are looking for a scapegoat for our recent bad performances and rightfully so. Hopefully, the new, for lack of a better term more 'player-friendly' systems on both offense and defense will ultimately allow us to see the full potential this collective group has moving forward.

Can you share in my optimism, fellow Giant brethren?
coach  
blapre74 : 3/28/2015 12:24 pm : link
yes! I'm optimistic. Adding Vereen the running back, and the kickrunner, via FA will be great! They signed two pretty good, quick lbs. they will draft a pass rusher and a safety to get Spags some attacking defensive players, along with a de or lb to rush the passer. The future is bright.
yes  
area junc : 3/28/2015 12:29 pm : link
Year 2 in McAdoo's system

Spags replacing Fewell *huge*

Special teams w/a big upgrade on paper with harris, thomas and casillas

we quietly improved in all 3 phases and we haven't hit the draft yet.
Spags is the wildcard  
chris r : 3/28/2015 12:30 pm : link
he's been a failure since he's left us.
Big bounce-back seems a bit much...  
Jimmy Googs : 3/28/2015 12:33 pm : link
playing more consistent and finishing games would be a step forward.

Defense - going to struggle with likely continued poor LB and Safety play. Who is there to make 3rd down plays and get this team off the field?

Offense - look forward to hopefully seeing Beckham, Cruz, Jennings and Vereen on field to give Eli plenty of options. Throw in a more experienced Donnell to move the chains a bit as well if he stops fumbling.

Specials - be nice to more positive than negative here but who knows.
RE: Big bounce-back seems a bit much...  
Montreal Man : 3/28/2015 12:59 pm : link
In comment 12207879 Jimmy Googs said:
Quote:
playing more consistent and finishing games would be a step forward.

Defense - going to struggle with likely continued poor LB and Safety play. Who is there to make 3rd down plays and get this team off the field?

Offense - look forward to hopefully seeing Beckham, Cruz, Jennings and Vereen on field to give Eli plenty of options. Throw in a more experienced Donnell to move the chains a bit as well if he stops fumbling.

Specials - be nice to more positive than negative here but who knows.


Jimmy, I agree, but think about what you said. Playing more consistently and finishing games suggests that we will have a winning season. Doing that is what it takes. We were wildly inconsistent last season and showed great flashes of offensive strength. With Spags, I'm assuming the defense will hold the type of games we lost when we couldn't sustain the lead Eli got us late in the game. I think just playing consistently and finishing games will give us a HUGE bounce back. Along with the additions of our FA's and I hope a good draft will be part of that. To me, things are looking way up.
why not  
CGiants07 : 3/28/2015 1:12 pm : link
we play the right afc division for a run
Can I share in your optimism?  
Still a Sam Huff fan : 3/28/2015 1:17 pm : link
No. I exceed your optimism. There is one major, major issue to be discussed. We are all tired of hearing about our injury plagued last few years. But tired or not, it is the key. Hey, you can't argue the quality of a team if they aren't wearing uniforms. We don't know what team we had last year. They weren't playing.

My optimism is based upon the low odds of us getting hit yet again with those season ending dreaded reports. It has to get better OR we have a serious problem with player preparation and conditioning.
RE: Can I share in your optimism?  
Percy : 3/28/2015 1:19 pm : link
In comment 12207953 Still a Sam Huff fan said:
Quote:
No. I exceed your optimism. There is one major, major issue to be discussed. We are all tired of hearing about our injury plagued last few years. But tired or not, it is the key. Hey, you can't argue the quality of a team if they aren't wearing uniforms. We don't know what team we had last year. They weren't playing.

My optimism is based upon the low odds of us getting hit yet again with those season ending dreaded reports. It has to get better OR we have a serious problem with player preparation and conditioning.


Could not have said it better -- and agree.
Coach, sounds reasonable.  
Blackbeard : 3/28/2015 1:34 pm : link
Thanks for a well written, readable discourse.
The half-full glass looks so much better.
If we stay healthy  
Torrag : 3/28/2015 1:40 pm : link
That includes getting guys back that were injured. We'll need some young guys to contribute. If we get those two things we can have a big swing to a wining record imo.
Not worried about the offense.  
SanFranNowNCGiantsFan : 3/28/2015 1:42 pm : link
VERY worried about the defense.

So, the Giants being the Giants, the defense will surprise us & perform well while the offense regresses.
RE: why not  
Steve L : 3/28/2015 1:45 pm : link
In comment 12207931 CGiants07 said:
Quote:
we play the right afc division for a run


Not sure about that. New England is always tough, Buffalo is consistant QB play away from being a very dangerous team and Miami has improved as well. The Jets are what they are.

If we play as inconsistent as we did last year, and as poorly on D, we easily could go 1-3 against the AFC East.
Anything could happen, but  
Red Dog : 3/28/2015 1:46 pm : link
they still have big holes to fill at Safety and on the OL, and then an awful lot of things have to go right and the injury bug has to stay in check.

So a big bounce back is possible, but not likely.

RE: Not worried about the offense.  
okiegiant : 3/28/2015 1:47 pm : link
In comment 12208007 SanFranNowNCGiantsFan said:
Quote:
VERY worried about the defense.

So, the Giants being the Giants, the defense will surprise us & perform well while the offense regresses.


I agree with being worried about the defense...if they could just improve a bit...just average(compared to simply awful)the Giants should improve. I'm hoping for a good draft and a little health.
Agree....  
Doomster : 3/28/2015 2:10 pm : link
The offense will carry this team.....

OBj, will not get single coverage this year....

Can Cruz come back?

Will Donnell improve?

Can Jennings stay healthy?

Can Eli be accurate with Vereen?

Will Randle finally get it?

Will they get that 5th OLman, and will the line get their act together quickly(players playing 3, possibly 4 new positions)?

As for the defense, all you can hope for, is that they get better as the season progresses.....right now, they just don't have the players....
Bounce Back in 2015?  
M.S. : 3/28/2015 2:25 pm : link

Nope.

Why?

Because when a team is near the very, very bottom at the point of attack on BOTH sides of the ball, that problem cannot be fixed in one or two years.

I think one side or the other can be "fixed" in a year -- both not both.

Truth  
Dragon : 3/28/2015 2:38 pm : link
The Giants could win from 3-8 games most likely since last year with what was a much better offense and defense they only won six games but none against any good teams. This year the defense and offense will almost assuredly take time to adjust just like last year. They have even more questions than they did last year and many new personnel to bring into these systems.

The biggest point is that as of this moment they have not brought in one player that makes anyone say what a great move. Sure if this was a winning team and they just added some depth that would be great but this team needed very good players on offense and defense so far none have arrived.
Steve: the point being made is that  
WillieYoung : 3/28/2015 2:59 pm : link
The AFC east is the division we played in both Superbowl years.
wishful thinking is sweet  
Josh in MD : 3/28/2015 3:07 pm : link
Last season, 28 teams out of 32 had players chosen to the Pro-Bowl. The Broncos had 9, the Cowboys 6, five teams had 5. Only 4 teams in the NFL had zero. The Giants were one of those 4, although OBJ was subsequently added as a replacement. The main problem with this teams the poor talent.
for me the glass is always half-full.  
ed90631 : 3/28/2015 3:09 pm : link
to determine if its half-full of piss or champagne will require a little tasting.

Here's to opening day.
Will 2015 be the season that The Giants master the Screen Pass?  
Blackbeard : 3/28/2015 3:30 pm : link
Or will we have to be content with just winning the Super Bowl?
Read the thread title folks. COULD they bounce back? Absolutely.  
Marty in Albany : 3/28/2015 3:49 pm : link
WILL they bounce back? Who knows?

Wait and see. That's why they play the games.
yes  
spike : 3/28/2015 4:21 pm : link
esp with the rest of NFC East potentially in decline.

DAL and PHI arent going to be as good next season

also good things happen when the Gmen play the AFC East
No chance with this OL  
arniefez : 3/28/2015 4:22 pm : link
none.
No.  
SHO'NUFF : 3/28/2015 4:34 pm : link
1. Same special teams coach
2. Same o-line coach
3. Same strength/conditioning team
I'll take 8-8.  
RDJR : 3/28/2015 4:56 pm : link
Both lines still lack talent which will result in mediocrity. However, the draft and rookie free agency could brighten my outlook.
Somewhat surprised at how few share the optimism  
Coach Mason : 3/28/2015 4:59 pm : link
But I can't blame you.

But I think the sound systems both offensively and defensively will play huge roles. Both broken 'systems' have been adressed. And I see some players here ready for much bigger contributions now that the proverbial shackles have been removed.

What bothers me is still retaining Quinn. The murmurs on BBI that he some sort of connections to ownership wouldn't surprise me in the least. To deflect blame off him we got a few quality Special teamers in Harris and Casillas. Hopefully the unit can just be adequate. One of the worst things Quinn has failed at is Punt blocking. You almost never see the gunners even close to impeded from a free run at the punt returner. That doesn't bode well for Harris.
Coach  
RDJR : 3/28/2015 5:15 pm : link
Agree the D should be better with Spags, however, we lack talent at important spots. Counting on JPP to return to his pre back injury self is wishful thinking. We don't have a good safety on the roster and our LB corps is average at best.

Offensively we have Eli, Odell and hope for Victor. Our RBs do not scare anybody and Eli better figure out how to throw a short ball or Vereen will be a waste. The OL, well, we know the deal there.

I've heard all I need to hear about injuries. Jennings injury hurt us big time last year (BB56 deserves credit for warning us at the time) but remember we were 0-6 before the injuries really started piling up. 7-9, 6-10, like I said, I'd take 8-8 and no blow outs.

If that means TC is out, so be it. Nothing lasts forever.
Im hoping for a winning season  
blueblood : 3/28/2015 5:24 pm : link
in all honesty.. They need to get back to WINNING..
love having spags back  
OBJ_AllDay : 3/28/2015 5:53 pm : link
In 2008, every 3rd down and long he would absolutely bring the house, force the check down read and someone would be there to stop it 5 yards short of the first down. it was a thing of beauty. I look forward to creative ways to generate pressure
To me the offense will be exceptional  
yatqb : 3/28/2015 8:48 pm : link
if Schwartz comes back healthy, we draft a top offensive lineman to complete the OL, and if Richburg can handle the C position without letting DTs collapse the pocket. That's a lot of ifs, but I think they are reasonable wishes. And although Cruz coming back healthy would be a big plus, even without that I think we'll score a lot as long as we can establish a running game.

Defense is another question entirely. Here we've really got to make some progress. We need Beason to be healthy (a huge question mark), and we need to add talent both up the middle of the DL and on the edges. I think that we've added two LBs who will help us defend the seam and short middle zones, as well as help us to deal with the option better. But we have no Safeties, and a CB group that is much thinner than last year.

Then there's our competition. I just don't think as currently constituted that we can stop Dallas from running the ball down our throats and also beating our secondary in the passing game. To me they are our biggest competition. Chip Kelly's teams have also always found ways to win, and they will be tough as well.

So I guess I'm cautiously optimistic, but am hoping for a really great draft and a few more FA additions to firm up the roster so that I could become more confident that we'll have a winning season.

with a QB, HC, DE in place.....stabilize OL  
George from PA : 3/28/2015 9:44 pm : link
We can win any game .....
We're due  
djm : 3/28/2015 9:58 pm : link
.
Yes we will bounce back  
Stupendamatic : 3/29/2015 12:28 am : link
Staying healthy is key. On defense we cannot afford to lose Beason to IR or a season of nagging injuries.
If many have conceded  
Coach Mason : 3/29/2015 11:53 am : link
that Fewell was not a good DC for this team, how can you with 100% conviction say this defense is totally devoid of talent?

We have seen repeated examples of teams with a new coach/system turning their fortunes dramatically.

Lewis to Spagnoulo round 1
Marinelli last year as Dallas' DC
(Across the pond in Hockey)Torterella to AV
LeBeau's 1st year (I think) in Pittsburgh

The personell in many of these cases was not overhauled with wholesale changes yet their was substantial turnaround each time.

Going from a bad DC/system to a good DC/system raises the level of play of ALL 11 players.

This doesn't guarantee a huge turnaround if Spags somehow flops but I don't see that happening.

I believe that Spagnuolo will be a big step up simply by
being flexible enough to not force fit players into his vision of the defense but rather constructing a defense that is much more appropriate to his players strengths.

Definition of a Good Coach  
CJ in AZ : 3/29/2015 5:24 pm : link
Coach Mason : 11:53 am : link : reply

I believe that Spagnuolo will be a big step up simply by
being flexible enough to not force fit players into his vision of the defense but rather constructing a defense that is much more appropriate to his players strengths.


That is also my definition of a good coach: finding ways to maximize the talents and minimize the weaknesses of the players you have by using the strategy and tactics that "fit" those players. [See photo of Bill Belichik, who seemingly changes players and modifies his "system" every year]. Thanks, Coach M.
I am not sure  
AnishPatel : 3/29/2015 5:59 pm : link
about a bounce back year. I think 9-7 is very optimist. I am expecting 8-8 right now.

The team in general has too many question marks, starting from the offense to the defense. I need to see how the team shapes up, but right now I wouldn't expect much than a .500 team.

If people can stay healthy as step 1. Step 2, if they can then produce, then i think we can get to that optimist 9-7 record.
it's amazing that bad teams  
djm : 3/30/2015 11:51 am : link
go from bad to good in the span of one year because according to many on this thread when a team is bad, they can't get good anytime soon.

Teams go from bad to good. It happens all the time. Get on board.

the Giants could have been 500 last year  
djm : 3/30/2015 11:57 am : link
I know every bad team could say the same thing, and it's true for those other teams too. Most teams are one or two plays away from winning a game that they ended up losing. The Giants were no different in 2014. They were worse in 2013 because the despite the 7-9 record they pretty much got destroyed in every loss save for week 1 at Dallas and that game was a mess anyway.

Not much separates the 10 win teams from from the 6-7 win teams. The Giants just need a little more talent at some weak spots which may happen from within and they need a shred of luck. Some of you act like this team and other teams like NY are miles and miles away. You're wrong. I'm not saying that the Giants will win 11 games in 2015 but I am not saying they will lose 8 games either. There's way too much unknown that can go right or wrong in the NFL to sit here and proclaim anything right now. Other than a few elites and a few train wrecks the NFL is a fluid dynamic. The Giants know how to develop young talent. I trust them.
RE: the Giants could have been 500 last year  
Coach Mason : 3/30/2015 3:26 pm : link
In comment 12210272 djm said:
Quote:
I know every bad team could say the same thing, and it's true for those other teams too. Most teams are one or two plays away from winning a game that they ended up losing. The Giants were no different in 2014. They were worse in 2013 because the despite the 7-9 record they pretty much got destroyed in every loss save for week 1 at Dallas and that game was a mess anyway.

Not much separates the 10 win teams from from the 6-7 win teams. The Giants just need a little more talent at some weak spots which may happen from within and they need a shred of luck. Some of you act like this team and other teams like NY are miles and miles away. You're wrong. I'm not saying that the Giants will win 11 games in 2015 but I am not saying they will lose 8 games either. There's way too much unknown that can go right or wrong in the NFL to sit here and proclaim anything right now. Other than a few elites and a few train wrecks the NFL is a fluid dynamic. The Giants know how to develop young talent. I trust them.


True we were in a few close games too. We should win a couple more of those simply on incremental better play in year 2 of MacAdoos system and a non-Perry Fewell scheme.
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