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Would the Giants go OL in rounds 1 and 2?

CBSGameFace : 3/29/2015 12:22 am
Coach Mason put up an interesting thread in reference to the Giants lack of interest in the OL free agents.

If we go Collins/Tomlinson, would you lose your collective minds or do you want Eli to have the necessary protection he needs in his final years here?

I think that with Spags back in the fold and Eli in McAdoo's system for another year, we need to blow people off the LOS for 3rd/4th and short conversions. I don't what our stats are for those downs and distances, but I'd bet you we are in the lower 25%, league wide.

Convert those downs and distances or get more on first down so we are not in 2nd and 8,9,10 all the damn time.

I'd be thrilled with that. Then go after June 1st cuts.
If the BPA on their board was such  
blueblood : 3/29/2015 12:31 am : link
I wouldnt see an issue with it.. but I doubt then will.

I learned a few years back.. dont get to attached to who you want and what the team will do.. just accept it.. because guess what.. whether you are mad or not.. It dont change nothing.
I truly don't understand  
81_Great_Dane : 3/29/2015 1:26 am : link
all the sweating over what position they draft. I want them to get a great player. I don't care what position it's at. The team is kind of crummy, there are needs almost everywhere -- I don't care whether they draft a tackle or an end or a safety, just get a big-time playmaker who will force the other team to account for him.

If they do that we'll all love the pick.

If they plug the OL with average starters, we'll have a so-so line, and we'll be wishing they had drafted one of the half-dozen hall of famers that enters the NFL in an average year.
RE: I truly don't understand  
CBSGameFace : 3/29/2015 1:44 am : link
In comment 12208721 81_Great_Dane said:
Quote:
all the sweating over what position they draft. I want them to get a great player. I don't care what position it's at. The team is kind of crummy, there are needs almost everywhere -- I don't care whether they draft a tackle or an end or a safety, just get a big-time playmaker who will force the other team to account for him.

If they do that we'll all love the pick.

If they plug the OL with average starters, we'll have a so-so line, and we'll be wishing they had drafted one of the half-dozen hall of famers that enters the NFL in an average year.


If we don't fix our OL and DL, brother, we're in trouble. Hence the handwringing.
I was thinking of posting a thread about this....  
Milton : 3/29/2015 3:24 am : link
I could see it happening, especially given the uncertainty surrounding Schwartz's return from injury.
RE: I was thinking of posting a thread about this....  
CBSGameFace : 3/29/2015 3:53 am : link
In comment 12208739 Milton said:
Quote:
I could see it happening, especially given the uncertainty surrounding Schwartz's return from injury.


Great minds and all. :)

I could see any number of these combinations:

Collins/Cann
Scherff/Tomlinson
Flowers/Cann
Collins/Clemmings

I'm not mad at any of those combinations. Collins/Marpet is in play, also, but not in Rounds 1-2. 1/3, perhaps....
Anything is possible at this point, you could create trade scenarios  
wgenesis123 : 3/29/2015 5:21 am : link
that have them drafting QB's. Not very likely though. Last year was the year they kind of needed to go O-line round one and two. They picked OBJ and no one seems to be complaining about that anymore. I would not be surprised at all if they went O-line and D-line in rounds one and two in no particular order. I think if they do draft O-line at pick 9 it could start a run on O-line in round one. That would make it less likely BPA is at O-line round two.
if both are the BPA...I am totally fine with selecting OL in 1st & 2nd  
George from PA : 3/29/2015 5:22 am : link
But I would think it more likely that no OL get drafted in the first 2 rounds.....

The OL in this draft is not exactly blue chip players........and there seems to be a ton of red chippers.

Is Schwartz really a question mark returning?

I see 4 starters that are given....that a rookie would be viewed a downgrade.

They re-signed last years 5th starter plus signed the best Canadian OL and a tackle who started under McAdoo......plus another year of Mosely who was close last year of playing.

I certainly see one but not 2 early
RE: RE: I truly don't understand  
Giantology : 3/29/2015 7:36 am : link
In comment 12208725 CBSGameFace said:
Quote:
In comment 12208721 81_Great_Dane said:


Quote:


all the sweating over what position they draft. I want them to get a great player. I don't care what position it's at. The team is kind of crummy, there are needs almost everywhere -- I don't care whether they draft a tackle or an end or a safety, just get a big-time playmaker who will force the other team to account for him.

If they do that we'll all love the pick.

If they plug the OL with average starters, we'll have a so-so line, and we'll be wishing they had drafted one of the half-dozen hall of famers that enters the NFL in an average year.



If we don't fix our OL and DL, brother, we're in trouble. Hence the handwringing.


How does picking 2 OL back to back help fix the DL?
The last time the giants selected 2 OL back to back in first 2 rounds  
Rjanyg : 3/29/2015 7:50 am : link
Was 1988. Erice Moore in round 1 and Jumbo Elliot in round 2. Elliot ended up becoming the better player. Moore ended up at guard. It's not likely IMO that Reese would go OL with our first 2 picks, but if he goes OL round 1 with Scherff for example, then a guy like Humphries is available in round 2 I could see it. Our line would be set for a while if that were to happen.

In 1988, adding Elliott and Moore helped create a dominant line that helped the Giants win Superbowl 25. OJ Anderson had his resurgence because of the offensive line. Simms had an excellent year until he was hurt. We had decent receivers but the line afforded Simms the time to find Ingram and Baker, they didn't always burn by DB's.

I would not be upset with back to back OL early, but with all the needs this team has, I seriously doubt it.
RE: RE: RE: I truly don't understand  
Giants2012 : 3/29/2015 7:54 am : link
In comment 12208766 Giantology said:
Quote:
In comment 12208725 CBSGameFace said:





How does picking 2 OL back to back help fix the DL?


Like 2008 despite losing Strahan and Osi, the defense was solid b/c they weren't on the field as often b/c was the OL controlled the game. Bromley gets his shot along with Ellis here now. Add in Selvie at DE and clearly more has been added to the DL already. Fix the OL mess
Doubt it  
jeff57 : 3/29/2015 7:57 am : link
.
RE: RE: RE: RE: I truly don't understand  
Giantology : 3/29/2015 8:02 am : link
In comment 12208775 Giants2012 said:
Quote:
In comment 12208766 Giantology said:


Quote:


In comment 12208725 CBSGameFace said:





How does picking 2 OL back to back help fix the DL?



Like 2008 despite losing Strahan and Osi, the defense was solid b/c they weren't on the field as often b/c was the OL controlled the game. Bromley gets his shot along with Ellis here now. Add in Selvie at DE and clearly more has been added to the DL already. Fix the OL mess


So 2 rookies are going to come in and fix the "mess"? Which players are they replacing in the line up? There's arguably one hole to fill on the OL. We also don't have to pick OL players in the first 2 rounds to add talent and depth to the OL.

Selfie and Ellis are both on 1 year deals. JPP is franchised for one year. Moore still has a lot to prove, Wynn will need development. This team has more needs than just OL.
Selvie*  
Giantology : 3/29/2015 8:03 am : link
Autocorrect
2 in the 1st 4 I can see but not two in the 1st 2 unless  
SLIMC : 3/29/2015 8:16 am : link
there is a big drop of an OL that they absolutely love.

We draft in tiers and this is more of a red chip draft which means that their are more bunches than outliers. Tough to see that OL especially when Reese is on record saying that his prediliction is on playmakers would have 2 clear cut picks in the 1st 2 rounds.

Also you need to look at who they have and other needs.

- On OL, they have Pugh and Richburg who are both short term and longer term solutions. Beatty and Schwartz have some time on their contracts still. Schwartz was injured last year but one of their big signings last year. There is no reason to think that they are looking for an immediate replacement. Beatty is in similar situation. He makes more money but his contract is not that crazy considering the money that was handed out to someone like Jeremy Pernell who is only a year younger. Jerry is a servicable 5th starter. They can spend a premium (1 or 2) pick to upgrade Jerry and maybe another pick in the top 4 who can serve as a backup for 1-2 years and then start.

- On DL, we have potentially 3 starters who are on 1 year deals and another in the last year of his deal. It makes sense to maybe do the same thing and take 2 in the top 4 and really have some nice depth this year.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: I truly don't understand  
Giants2012 : 3/29/2015 8:43 am : link
In comment 12208779 Giantology said:
Quote:
In comment 12208775 Giants2012 said:


Quote:


In comment 12208766 Giantology said:


Quote:


In comment 12208725 CBSGameFace said:





How does picking 2 OL back to back help fix the DL?



Like 2008 despite losing Strahan and Osi, the defense was solid b/c they weren't on the field as often b/c was the OL controlled the game. Bromley gets his shot along with Ellis here now. Add in Selvie at DE and clearly more has been added to the DL already. Fix the OL mess



So 2 rookies are going to come in and fix the "mess"? Which players are they replacing in the line up? There's arguably one hole to fill on the OL. We also don't have to pick OL players in the first 2 rounds to add talent and depth to the OL.

Selfie and Ellis are both on 1 year deals. JPP is franchised for one year. Moore still has a lot to prove, Wynn will need development. This team has more needs than just OL.


One Guard position is already open unless Pugh moves inside and I doubt the rest play every game. As far as Ellis and Selvie, welcome to the 89% rule where you're going to see more 1 year deals with team likely extending those deals during the season.
.....  
Giants2012 : 3/29/2015 8:46 am : link
and yes, i could see them going OL and DL with the first two picks with OL again in Round 3. Of course, there are holes everywhere including safety.
Highly unlikely.  
BlueLou : 3/29/2015 9:10 am : link
This FO and coaching staff don't view OL as plug and play so much, not enough to draft them 1st and 2nd rounds...
The Giants SHOULD go OLine in Rounds 1 and 2.  
Emlen'sGremlins : 3/29/2015 9:26 am : link
The Owner Has Said Repeatedly That Its An Area Of Major Need. If They Can Grab Scherff At 9 And One Of The Talented OTs Is Still There At 40 Do it.
RE: The Giants SHOULD go OLine in Rounds 1 and 2.  
Giantology : 3/29/2015 9:35 am : link
In comment 12208842 Emlen'sGremlins said:
Quote:
The Owner Has Said Repeatedly That Its An Area Of Major Need. If They Can Grab Scherff At 9 And One Of The Talented OTs Is Still There At 40 Do it.


And this talented OT is going to replace the incumbent Beatty? Pugh? Are you going to move Pugh inside? Where does Schwartz play? That's also a lot of responsibility to expect out of two rookies. We have more than 2 picks, and there will be OL available in Rounds 3-7.
To say it's not possible is foolish  
Sy'56 : 3/29/2015 10:18 am : link
Look at the starting OL and the depth behind them and try to convince anyone that only 1 upgrade is needed

NYG has the "luxury" of being really bad from a personnel perspective. They can do whatever they want position wise in the draft and it can be considered a good class. To avoid positions (outside of QB/RB) would be silly.
RE: if both are the BPA...I am totally fine with selecting OL in 1st & 2nd  
Milton : 3/29/2015 10:24 am : link
In comment 12208750 George from PA said:
Quote:
Is Schwartz really a question mark returning?
He was "asked" to take a paycut. You don't do that unless you are willing to cut the guy if he doesn't accept. And he doesn't accept a paycut unless he thinks the only alternative is his release. So he takes a paycut that gives him a chance to earn back his "salary" if he is active on game day for the 16 regular season games.
CONCLUSION: Schwartz's return to health in 2015 is iffy.
Beatty is not a very strong "incumbent".  
Emlen'sGremlins : 3/29/2015 10:31 am : link
The Head Coach and GM have both said that if something better comes around then Pugh could be moved anywhere. Schwartz had two serious injuries last year and was atrocious when he did play in the preseason.
RE: Beatty is not a very strong  
Giantology : 3/29/2015 10:34 am : link
In comment 12208922 Emlen'sGremlins said:
Quote:
The Head Coach and GM have both said that if something better comes around then Pugh could be moved anywhere. Schwartz had two serious injuries last year and was atrocious when he did play in the preseason.


Still doesn't mean we have to draft OL in rounds 1 and 2.
One of the things that really annoys me  
Reb8thVA : 3/29/2015 10:43 am : link
This time of year is when people make assumptions about what the Giants will do and treat it as fact or take what my essentially be guidelines or past precedents and using them as indicators with little regard to context.

To say that Reese would never do such a thing is foolish. first you don't know what the organization's perception of need is for the OL. Is it just one player needed at LG or RT or are there deeper concerns about the Schwartz 's health or maybe thery are satisfied as Is. Although I doubt that is the case given some of Coughlin's comments.

Secondly how do they view the overall talent level of this draft class vs the level of need. Maybe depending on how the draft plays out they believe the best convergence of value and need might be drafting a OT and a G. Maybe if they believe Scherff can play LT you draft him first to play LG and move him to replace Beatty next year. If you draft another G or OT you have him to step in and fill the void next year left by Scherff's move.

Also you have no idea what kind of pressure Reese and Coughlin's really are under to win now and how that might impact draft day decisions.

I am not trying to argue OL in the first or bust. There are some strong arguments for going WR or DE. It just rigid inflexibility of some that drives me nuts.
Stranger things have happened  
djm : 3/29/2015 11:09 am : link
But I highly doubt it.

OL will probably be picked in round 2 or 3. Good interior linemen should be available on day representing good value
Day 2  
djm : 3/29/2015 11:10 am : link
..
It could happen  
JonC : 3/29/2015 11:11 am : link
but, they could also get a DE with a strong grade at #40, which would be better value than an OG at the same pick.

Draft the best players.
If Cooper's gone  
Phil in LA : 3/29/2015 11:18 am : link
I wouldn't mind going OL in 1 and 2. If he's there, I wouldn't mind picking OL 2x between 2 and 4.
We need another starter along the O-line...not two starters  
Torrag : 3/29/2015 11:42 am : link
Take one in the first two rounds and if you see a prospect between rounds 5 and 7 with potential grab him.
We need another starter  
Phil in LA : 3/29/2015 12:18 pm : link
and better depth. So, if we take one in 1 and the BPA in 2, or 3 is also an OL we should grab him. We've done really poorly with late round OL's since Diehl.
RE: RE: Beatty is not a very strong  
Mason : 3/29/2015 12:43 pm : link
In comment 12208925 Giantology said:
Quote:
In comment 12208922 Emlen'sGremlins said:


Quote:


The Head Coach and GM have both said that if something better comes around then Pugh could be moved anywhere. Schwartz had two serious injuries last year and was atrocious when he did play in the preseason.



Still doesn't mean we have to draft OL in rounds 1 and 2.


I don't even understand how he reached his conclusion about Beatty based on his own statement. He only mentions what they said about Pugh.
.....  
Micko : 3/29/2015 12:45 pm : link
Fine by me - in fact, I would be thrilled. Although, I'm liking the idea of Shelton in the 1st as well. We need to stop the run.
Would be stunned if we went OL 1 and 2  
Coach Mason : 3/29/2015 12:46 pm : link
Too much value elsewhere in a deep red chip draft and whether you agree or not Giants have 4 of 5 starting spots already accounted for.
The Giant FO has said this time after time  
JohnF : 3/29/2015 1:11 pm : link
They have rated all the players, and ranked on their board. They will go with the highest ranked player in the first few rounds unless the following occurs (IMO):

1) They can't deal with the agent.
2) It's a position (like QB, Kicker) where either they have a franchise player (like Eli), or they can easily get a replacement FA (Kickers).
3) Too many negatives (Drug History, for example).
4) They have multiple players ranked with the same top grade on their board when the decision to pick comes. At that point, there is a quick discussion about who is the best fit.
5) They get an offer they can't refuse (which almost never happens).

So, their draft will depend on who's picked from the list, and who is the highest player left. That could be two offensive linemen on Rounds 1/2, or it could be a WR and a LB, or an Edge Rusher/Running Back.

Without knowing the rankings on the Giants board, and who gets picked in front of them, we will have no idea what will happen. To say the Giants should do "this" or "that" is fine, but that's not the way it works.

Taking chances (hunches on players) is fine in the later rounds, but you have to get the BPA on your draft board in the first few rounds. Your coach is only as good as the talent he gets.

That does not mean the best athlete (though you'd prefer that to be the case), but the best combination of athlete/player you can get. The guy need to be a top level athlete, but he also needs to be a player.
RE: The Giant FO has said this time after time  
Giantology : 3/29/2015 1:14 pm : link
In comment 12209095 JohnF said:
Quote:
They have rated all the players, and ranked on their board. They will go with the highest ranked player in the first few rounds unless the following occurs (IMO):

1) They can't deal with the agent.
2) It's a position (like QB, Kicker) where either they have a franchise player (like Eli), or they can easily get a replacement FA (Kickers).
3) Too many negatives (Drug History, for example).
4) They have multiple players ranked with the same top grade on their board when the decision to pick comes. At that point, there is a quick discussion about who is the best fit.
5) They get an offer they can't refuse (which almost never happens).

So, their draft will depend on who's picked from the list, and who is the highest player left. That could be two offensive linemen on Rounds 1/2, or it could be a WR and a LB, or an Edge Rusher/Running Back.

Without knowing the rankings on the Giants board, and who gets picked in front of them, we will have no idea what will happen. To say the Giants should do "this" or "that" is fine, but that's not the way it works.

Taking chances (hunches on players) is fine in the later rounds, but you have to get the BPA on your draft board in the first few rounds. Your coach is only as good as the talent he gets.

That does not mean the best athlete (though you'd prefer that to be the case), but the best combination of athlete/player you can get. The guy need to be a top level athlete, but he also needs to be a player.


Good post. I'd add though, that Jerry Reese also likes to get a combination of value and need and has said as much before... and we've picked players at a position of need in Round 1 several times under his watch.
OP - we did it before.  
short lease : 3/29/2015 2:22 pm : link
I think it was in the mid - late 80's?

We scouted "Jumbo" Elliot heavily (I think this is the way it went) before the draft. Then we took William Roberts. According to reports - the rest of the league got nervous (they thought there was something there that that the Giants must have knew about) in regards to Elliot and he was there when we drafted in RD 2 - so we took him. After the fact - the newspaper articles were all praising the Giants for pulling a con.


Here is the problem - everybody agrees that the game is won in the trenches but, NOBODY seems to want to draft OL high - because it is NOT SEXY. If Scherff is there- DRAFT HIM JERRY!

Look at the 49'ers OL from 2 years ago. Look at the Cowboys OL last year - arguably the best OL in the NFL. Does anybody think the Cowboys would have finished 12-4 last year without that OL?

I said before on this site - my dream scenario off-season would have been if the Giants signed Iupati and then drafted Scherff. There is our OL (barring injuries) for the next 4-5 years. Okay, we didn't sign Iupati - lets go OL HIGH this year in the draft. Lets bite the bullet and get it overwith. If it means taking an OL in the first 2 rounds - go for it.

IMHO - of course.
YES  
PaulN : 3/29/2015 2:27 pm : link
It is possible, let's say they decide to add Collins in round 1, and let's say that peat drops and is there for the taking in round 2, I would certainly pull the trigger on that, and why not, think what the addition of both those players would do for our OLIne! it just depends on who else is available at the time we pick, if the value is there, then why not, the need certainly is. It would allow us to drop Beatty after this season if we wanted to, plus I do think Peat will become a better player in time, not right away, then you have cost control for 4 or 5 seasons, which would happen to be the last of Eli's career, too many reasons for it to be a good idea then to just throw out the mere thought of this. But you don't go into the draft thinking ahead like this at all, I hope you do understand that, this is just another senseless theoretical question, nothing more.
short lease  
Emlen'sGremlins : 3/29/2015 3:29 pm : link
William Roberts Was The 84 Draft. You Meant Eric Moore.
Sorry, Emlin - I was going by memory -  
short lease : 3/29/2015 3:55 pm : link
- you are right.
Especially when you think about  
#10* : 3/29/2015 4:11 pm : link
the fact that the Giants dont need two #1's to be a great offense. That would take away from Obj and essentially make Randal useless if Cruz comes back or not.
The idea of taking  
Salty Meats : 3/29/2015 5:20 pm : link
OL in round one and two makes too much sense for this guy. Have to take a project or a guy with an African name who has enormous upside that no one else sees.
African names like...  
Klaatu : 3/29/2015 6:03 pm : link
Aaron Ross, Kenny Phillips, David Wilson...it's a regular King Solomon's Mines with Jerry Reese.
African names from former French colonies preferred,  
BlueLou : 3/29/2015 7:59 pm : link
Like Jason Pierre-Paul.
Would be ok with Collins / Tomlinson  
ghost718 : 3/29/2015 8:53 pm : link
But would prefer Scherff / Marpet in the 1st and 3rd.To go along with Richburg,than you got something.Than you can probably live with the 2 guys on the outside.That being Will Beatty and his pincushion,and Barney The Dinosaur at Right Tackle.
RE: The last time the giants selected 2 OL back to back in first 2 rounds  
baadbill : 3/29/2015 8:55 pm : link
In comment 12208773 Rjanyg said:
Quote:
Was 1988. Erice Moore in round 1 and Jumbo Elliot in round 2. Elliot ended up becoming the better player. Moore ended up at guard. It's not likely IMO that Reese would go OL with our first 2 picks, but if he goes OL round 1 with Scherff for example, then a guy like Humphries is available in round 2 I could see it. Our line would be set for a while if that were to happen.

In 1988, adding Elliott and Moore helped create a dominant line that helped the Giants win Superbowl 25. OJ Anderson had his resurgence because of the offensive line. Simms had an excellent year until he was hurt. We had decent receivers but the line afforded Simms the time to find Ingram and Baker, they didn't always burn by DB's.

I would not be upset with back to back OL early, but with all the needs this team has, I seriously doubt it.


That was one hell of a draft for the Giants (thank goodness for those first two picks).

1 10 Eric Moore OT 01/21/1965 Indiana
2 36 Jumbo Elliott OT 04/01/1965 Michigan
3 62 Sheldon White DB 03/01/1965 Miami (OH)
4 92 Ricky Shaw LB 07/28/1965 Oklahoma State
5 118 Jon Carter DT 03/12/1965 Pittsburgh
6 145 David Houle OG 01/20/1965 Michigan State
7 175 Michael Perez QB 03/07/1965 San Jose State
7 186 Danta Whitaker TE 03/14/1964 Mississippi Valley State
8 202 Sammy Lilly DB 02/12/1965 Georgia Tech
10 259 Eric Hickerson DB 10/04/1965 Indiana
10 265 Steve Wilkes TE 05/18/1966 Appalachian State
11 286 Greg Harris WR 12/30/1965 Troy State
12 313 David Futrell DE 03/20/1966 Brigham Young
12 323 Brendan McCormack DE 03/17/1966 South Carolina
simply not the Giants' MO  
Osi Osi Osi OyOyOy : 3/29/2015 8:56 pm : link


2 OL in the first 4 rounds, I could see that.
Maybe not 1 and 2, but as with Cruz, Reese does not want to  
Marty in Albany : 3/29/2015 8:58 pm : link
"put all the eggs in one basket" with just one lineman.

Therefore I believe that the Giants will draft two linemen. One, primarily a Guard and one primarily a Tackle.
RE: OP - we did it before.  
CBSGameFace : 3/30/2015 12:01 am : link
In comment 12209157 short lease said:
Quote:
I think it was in the mid - late 80's?

We scouted "Jumbo" Elliot heavily (I think this is the way it went) before the draft. Then we took William Roberts. According to reports - the rest of the league got nervous (they thought there was something there that that the Giants must have knew about) in regards to Elliot and he was there when we drafted in RD 2 - so we took him. After the fact - the newspaper articles were all praising the Giants for pulling a con.


Here is the problem - everybody agrees that the game is won in the trenches but, NOBODY seems to want to draft OL high - because it is NOT SEXY. If Scherff is there- DRAFT HIM JERRY!

Look at the 49'ers OL from 2 years ago. Look at the Cowboys OL last year - arguably the best OL in the NFL. Does anybody think the Cowboys would have finished 12-4 last year without that OL?

I said before on this site - my dream scenario off-season would have been if the Giants signed Iupati and then drafted Scherff. There is our OL (barring injuries) for the next 4-5 years. Okay, we didn't sign Iupati - lets go OL HIGH this year in the draft. Lets bite the bullet and get it overwith. If it means taking an OL in the first 2 rounds - go for it.

IMHO - of course.


Thank you, brother. That is exactly what I am saying. Dallas won last year because in 3rd and 5, they could cram the ball down your throat. As close to unstoppable as I've seen in a long time.

SF is another great example. The 49ers invested three first round picks in stalwart offensive linemen (Staley, Iupati, and Davis) and the results have been great. They have had one of the best offensive lines in the NFL, opening up giant holes for their power run offense.

We need to convert 3rd and short and 4th and short. That has been our Achilles Heel for 3 years now. Baas getting blowed up at the POA gives me the chills. We need to get nasty up front.

Collins/Scherff/Flowers/Cann/Humphries/Marpet get us better ASAP. I'm just saying that we have been clamoring for OL help on this board for three years.

Eli needs a running game like he had back in 2007. That starts with the OL. No brainer.
RE: RE: OP - we did it before.  
short lease : 3/30/2015 4:08 am : link
In comment 12209861 CBSGameFace said:
Quote:
In comment 12209157 short lease said:


Quote:


I think it was in the mid - late 80's?

We scouted "Jumbo" Elliot heavily (I think this is the way it went) before the draft. Then we took William Roberts. According to reports - the rest of the league got nervous (they thought there was something there that that the Giants must have knew about) in regards to Elliot and he was there when we drafted in RD 2 - so we took him. After the fact - the newspaper articles were all praising the Giants for pulling a con.


Here is the problem - everybody agrees that the game is won in the trenches but, NOBODY seems to want to draft OL high - because it is NOT SEXY. If Scherff is there- DRAFT HIM JERRY!

Look at the 49'ers OL from 2 years ago. Look at the Cowboys OL last year - arguably the best OL in the NFL. Does anybody think the Cowboys would have finished 12-4 last year without that OL?

I said before on this site - my dream scenario off-season would have been if the Giants signed Iupati and then drafted Scherff. There is our OL (barring injuries) for the next 4-5 years. Okay, we didn't sign Iupati - lets go OL HIGH this year in the draft. Lets bite the bullet and get it overwith. If it means taking an OL in the first 2 rounds - go for it.

IMHO - of course.



Thank you, brother. That is exactly what I am saying. Dallas won last year because in 3rd and 5, they could cram the ball down your throat. As close to unstoppable as I've seen in a long time.

SF is another great example. The 49ers invested three first round picks in stalwart offensive linemen (Staley, Iupati, and Davis) and the results have been great. They have had one of the best offensive lines in the NFL, opening up giant holes for their power run offense.

We need to convert 3rd and short and 4th and short. That has been our Achilles Heel for 3 years now. Baas getting blowed up at the POA gives me the chills. We need to get nasty up front.

Collins/Scherff/Flowers/Cann/Humphries/Marpet get us better ASAP. I'm just saying that we have been clamoring for OL help on this board for three years.

Eli needs a running game like he had back in 2007. That starts with the OL. No brainer.


Your welcome ... BTW - who is Marpet? : ) (I really don't know) ...

look I don't consider my a FOOTBALL genius but, sooner or later the trenches are going to have to be addressed? Lets go OL this year and get it over with.
Ali Marpet..  
CBSGameFace : 3/30/2015 4:29 am : link
..is from a D3 school by the name of Hobart. He's from Hastings, NY which is right around the corner from wher I grew up.

He looked great at the Senior Bowl as he stoned Shelton at line a few times which turned some heads as Shelton is the consensus #2 DT in this draft.

Combine #s were pretty solid also as he ran the fastest 40 of all the OL. Two time team captain fits the GMen's latest MO on drafting.

Thin in his base, he needs the benefit of the NFL weight room (who doesn't). Can be beat on the edge and his technique, while good, is inconsistent. Might be a reach in round 3, but if we took Beckum, Barden and Jernigan in the third, this kid might be worth a shot.

Also, he wants to play here in NY. For whatever that is worth..
Maybe  
Mike in Boston : 3/30/2015 6:22 am : link
I won't lose too much sleep either way. I remember getting very upset a few decades ago when a weak Giants team, whose only position of strength was LB, drafted a tweener (although I don't think the word was in use then) college DE to play LB with the #2 overall pick. (For those of you too young to remember that was LT) Since then, I have decided I'll root for whoever they pick.

Even if they do pick OL with their first two picks, it would be unlikely they get two stars. A top 10 overall pick, historically, has something like a 25% chance of being a star and about a 35% chance on top of that of being a solid starter. Yes, the draft really is that much of a crap shoot.
Anyone remember Accorsi  
mrvax : 3/30/2015 8:09 am : link
saying something about the Oline years ago that you could just grab some JAGS and throw them up there and be fine?

That wasn't the wording but it meant the same.
RE: Anyone remember Accorsi  
Victor in CT : 3/30/2015 8:58 am : link
In comment 12209943 mrvax said:
Quote:
saying something about the Oline years ago that you could just grab some JAGS and throw them up there and be fine?

That wasn't the wording but it meant the same.


Was that before or after he had to run out and overpay Lomas Brown, Glenn Parker and Dusty Ziegler and pray they had anything left in the tank? They pretty much all had 1 good year and went bust
I'd be very happy.  
nicky43 : 3/30/2015 9:18 am : link
Jerry has let this o-line get so bad in need that he no longer has the luxury of going BPA if he wants to field a competitive team. We've been begging for them to fix the o-line for three years now. Jerry does not have any choice now.

Beatty is inconsistent
Jerry sucks
Schwartz injured twice last year and wasn't that great when he did play.
Richburgh is supposed to be a good center but still an unknown
Pugh - Good but not great.
Only 3rd or 4th string guys behind them.

It's really going to suck if we have to have another season without a running game and where Eli has to rush to get rid of the ball on every play.



um we just drafted Richburg and Pugh  
Osi Osi Osi OyOyOy : 3/30/2015 9:23 am : link
in the Top 50 in back to back drafts. This "Reese doesn't care about the OL!" shit is so stupid. Clearly he does value OL as the Pugh and Richburg selections prove.

Our OL isn't as weak as our front 7. If we're going strictly by "need", we would draft pass rushers and linebackers before we go OL.
RE: The idea of taking  
Ten Ton Hammer : 3/30/2015 9:28 am : link
In comment 12209352 Salty Meats said:
Quote:
OL in round one and two makes too much sense for this guy. Have to take a project or a guy with an African name who has enormous upside that no one else sees.


Anyone want to bother e-mailing this to Bold so we can get rid of this guy once and for all?
I say no way in hell.  
Andy in Halifax : 3/30/2015 9:30 am : link
We already a significant investment in the line 2nd (Beatty), 2nd (Richberg), 1st (Pugh) and a big UFA contract (Schwartz). I just don't think they'd invest another #1 and #2 to that unit.

I think Jerry is itchin' to pick a position he deems to be a playmaker @ #9. Passrusher, receiver, corner... something like that.
RE: If the BPA on their board was such  
shabu : 3/30/2015 10:24 am : link
In comment 12208717 blueblood said:
Quote:
I wouldnt see an issue with it.. but I doubt then will.

I learned a few years back.. dont get to attached to who you want and what the team will do.. just accept it.. because guess what.. whether you are mad or not.. It dont change nothing.


I seriously think it is a Myth that the Giants draft on BPA only. They have been clearly drafting need in recent years.

2009 Hakeem Nicks ( burress gone )
2010 Jason Pierre-Paul ( Strahan gone and Osi aging )
2011 19 Prince Amukamara
2012 32 David Wilson ( Ahmad Bradshaw gone )
2013 19 Justin Pugh ( no need for comment )
2014 12 Odell Beckham, Jr. Wide receiver ( Nicks gone )
Need is a component in nearly every pick for every team.  
BeerFridge : 3/30/2015 10:32 am : link
The key thing is whether you reach to meet the need. There are usually a few players with similar grades and then need breaks the tie.

I don't think any of those picks are reaches, maybe Pugh?

As for the OP, I would love the Giants to bolster the line, OL/DL with multiple picks this year. Lack of dominating the LOS is the main difference between this Giants team and the one that hoisted the Lombardi trophy at the end of the season.
Reese has said they don't draft purely BPA, so I don't know why BBI  
PatersonPlank : 3/30/2015 10:36 am : link
keeps saying it. They have "tiers" or groupings of players. When it comes tho their pick they look at who is left in the current tier being around that spot. From those remaining guys they pick the best fit/need for the team based on the current roster and the players left in the draft. There have been exceptions where a guy from the higher tier was still there and they have taken them, Prince is one, but for the most part they know who is roughly going where. Since they have determined all the guys in the tier are close enough per the Giants scouting dept., at that point the do a combination of BPA and need.
It wouldn't anger me  
giantgiantfan : 3/30/2015 11:25 am : link
as long as they panned out. Think about it, we likely get the top rated lineman in the draft in Round 1 and a solid guard in round 2. That should mean this offense is set, baring injury to Eli and he who catches with one hand.

For this to happen I think guys like Beasley, Cooper, and White are off the board when we pick in Rd. 1.
im 100% for it  
NYG4246 : 3/30/2015 5:19 pm : link
ive said it on here before. Fix the Line. Fix the Giants.
It`s happened before..  
hotrod48 : 3/30/2015 6:31 pm : link
1988 Giants selected Eric Moore round 1, Jumbo Elliot round 2. That was on hell of a draft. Go for what ever we need to win. To win we need to run the ball. Last year proved that we did not have enough talent up front. Go get them and draft S in 3 and 4.
Hmmm  
raever : 3/30/2015 6:41 pm : link
Quote:
We need another starter
Phil in LA : 3/29/2015 12:18 pm : link : reply
and better depth. So, if we take one in 1 and the BPA in 2, or 3 is also an OL we should grab him. We've done really poorly with late round OL's since Diehl.


So because we've drafted poorly in the later rounds we should over spend critical draft resources at a position even though we have critical needs in other areas? Here's a better idea. Expect the scouting department to do their jobs instead of drafting scared. The 'better depth' you allude to should be attainable in the mid rounds(4-5) if our FO gets their act together. As it shows signs of doing with the Kennard and Williams picks from last year.
two of those  
msh : 3/30/2015 7:04 pm : link
were deffo bpa available prince and beckham
but its very true they go BPA at a position of need
versus pure BPA as they claim

i would be fine with going OL rounds 1 and 2 but you would need to get 2 probowl caliber players if you go that way to justify the neglect to DE or have a 3rd round DE you felt could start year 1

thats why i would want la'el collins in round 1,a DE in round 2 arik armstead or carl davis maybe and an OG in round 3 (marpet?) the best of both worlds they fix the OL completely this year plus get spags some help at DE look for safety in round 4 and round out the draft with a WR,TE and LB (in order they consider best)
Look, Best Player Available regardless of round  
SGMen : 3/30/2015 8:27 pm : link
In this draft, we definitely could use some "luck" and get two draft picks that start as rookies. That would be great.

Two OL's that start - not likely! I am thankful we signed Canadian B. Jones for OG and OC duties cause I have a feeling he makes the team and does really well. Remember, he played college ball and has two years of CFL experience so he isn't totally raw like a rookie.

Beatty-Jones-Richburg-Schwartz-Pugh would be nice especially if all are healthy and Jones really comes on and surprises like Seubert did. We'd be blessed.
SG  
raever : 3/30/2015 10:34 pm : link
Hoping a CFL player surprises is your 'plan' to upgrade our O-Line? Not good enough imo, not good enough by half.
I think Jones will be given a chance to compete  
Coach Mason : 3/31/2015 6:39 am : link
For a starting spot. But I'd be surprised if the Giants don't take an OL by 40. However I think it will be only one in the top 3-4 rounds. We will likely take the obligatory DE and S too.

In fact even with how fluid the draft is I think the top 4 rounds will end up DE, OL, S, WR/TE in no particular order. We don't really have the luxury to cluster draft.
Not to likely  
chillinman1183 : 3/31/2015 7:53 am : link
No matter how much I watch scherff or Collins I just can't see them as top 10 picks. they are the 2 best prospects IMO so obviously the others are out.
I dn't see the Giants drafting any OL before 40 where the value starts to marry up with need.
Maybe I'm wrong but I hope not,and whoever they draft I will become an instant fan. Some more than others obviously. When I hear if the Giants draft this person I will throw my remote. How dumb and childish is that. I may be hoping for a different player but always reserve judgment until I actually see what they're capable of on the field in the NFL.
IMO they need 1 guy to hopefully push Jerry out of the starting lineup and depth. If Jerry does lose his job wich is best case scenario then that takes care of the depth problem at G. Hopefully at somepoint they find an upgrade over Newhouse as I'd hate to see him play any extended time at either T position. But contrary to popular belief there are 7 rounds,8 selections overall,and there will be a lot of good football players available.
S is a position on here that commonly gets overlooked. I dare say that it's more important at this point to find some competition at S than it is OL,as they could live with Schwartz and Jerry if they both stay healthy. That's a big if with Schwartz so it is important to atleast invest in depth at the very least. They can not however count on 2 2nd and 3rd year 5th round picks to be the salution at S,especially Cooper Taylor as he's shown to be injury prone.
So no,I think it's highly unlikely they draft OL in the 1st and 2nd rounds. Ofcourse I think it's highly unlikely they go OL before 40.
We can speculate all we want as to what direction they will go with there picks but we really don't know!?!
What I do know is that there isn't an OL in this draft worthy of a top 10 selection and I hope the Giants go in a different direction. If they don't I'll reserve judgment and hope I'm wrong!!!
go o-line rounds 1-7  
HomerJones45 : 3/31/2015 7:57 am : link
So maybe, just maybe BBI will finally shut up about the online.

And stop with Dallas. They got their qb beat up and broken up.
STop with they did it in 1988  
chillinman1183 : 3/31/2015 8:16 am : link
I hate to break it to you but it's not the 80's anymore and it is a passing league first and foremost. So that logic just doesn't fit in 2015...
chillin you're long posts are hard on the eyes  
raever : 3/31/2015 8:27 am : link
I agree that events from two decades ago by a regime so far removed from the present are irrelevant. The current roster status at OL/DL/S/WR/TE/CB preclude the luxury of cluster drafting in the early rounds.
So in a passing league it's good to  
LauderdaleMatty : 3/31/2015 8:27 am : link
Have one of the worst OLs in the league?

I want Beasley or Fowler more than any OL. But pretending you can win w WRs is just not happening. Atlanta and Det are great examples of teams that have a lot of WR talent and it's gotten them nowhere.

Also for those who say it's always BPA. Bullshit. Out Of 300 players in almost every round you will have players very closely ranked when it's time to pick Suppose a top tier WR falls into the third round and the Giants picked White. They aren't grabbing another WR.

Also Reese has made it clear that he values WRs DL and CBs more than other positons. So his philosphy is to pass on a LB. He passes on Sean Lee who despite injuries has been great for Joseph. Neither was a bad pick. BPA is subjective. You can find 20 different opinions when comparing players by the GMs. Just like there's different opinions Here

LauderdaleMatty :  
chillinman1183 : 3/31/2015 8:48 am : link
I hate to tell ya dude but as far as keeping Eli upright the Giants were 12th best in the league last year,so your argument doesn't support the facts!!
By the way,did I say ignore the OL completely? here I thought I mentioned the Giants could use an upgrade over Jerry and depth all over the OL.
Here's another one that thinks the draft is only one round!! Haha...
OL in rounds 1 and 2?  
Jersey55 : 3/31/2015 4:54 pm : link
I think if either of the top WR playmakers are there for us in round 1 we'll take one and go for an O lineman in round 2, Reese loves his playmakers and after last season watching OBJ show us what a big talent can do he will want a redo...
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