Would the Giants go OL in rounds 1 and 2?

I wouldnt see an issue with it.. but I doubt then will.

I learned a few years back.. dont get to attached to who you want and what the team will do.. just accept it.. because guess what.. whether you are mad or not.. It dont change nothing.

all the sweating over what position they draft. I want them to get a great player. I don't care what position it's at. The team is kind of crummy, there are needs almost everywhere -- I don't care whether they draft a tackle or an end or a safety, just get a big-time playmaker who will force the other team to account for him.

If they do that we'll all love the pick.

If they plug the OL with average starters, we'll have a so-so line, and we'll be wishing they had drafted one of the half-dozen hall of famers that enters the NFL in an average year.

In comment 12208721 81_Great_Dane said:

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all the sweating over what position they draft. I want them to get a great player. I don't care what position it's at. The team is kind of crummy, there are needs almost everywhere -- I don't care whether they draft a tackle or an end or a safety, just get a big-time playmaker who will force the other team to account for him. If they do that we'll all love the pick. If they plug the OL with average starters, we'll have a so-so line, and we'll be wishing they had drafted one of the half-dozen hall of famers that enters the NFL in an average year.

If we don't fix our OL and DL, brother, we're in trouble. Hence the handwringing.

I could see it happening, especially given the uncertainty surrounding Schwartz's return from injury.

In comment 12208739 Milton said:

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I could see it happening, especially given the uncertainty surrounding Schwartz's return from injury.

Great minds and all. :)

I could see any number of these combinations:

Collins/Cann
Scherff/Tomlinson
Flowers/Cann
Collins/Clemmings

I'm not mad at any of those combinations. Collins/Marpet is in play, also, but not in Rounds 1-2. 1/3, perhaps....

that have them drafting QB's. Not very likely though. Last year was the year they kind of needed to go O-line round one and two. They picked OBJ and no one seems to be complaining about that anymore. I would not be surprised at all if they went O-line and D-line in rounds one and two in no particular order. I think if they do draft O-line at pick 9 it could start a run on O-line in round one. That would make it less likely BPA is at O-line round two.

But I would think it more likely that no OL get drafted in the first 2 rounds.....

The OL in this draft is not exactly blue chip players........and there seems to be a ton of red chippers.

Is Schwartz really a question mark returning?

I see 4 starters that are given....that a rookie would be viewed a downgrade.

They re-signed last years 5th starter plus signed the best Canadian OL and a tackle who started under McAdoo......plus another year of Mosely who was close last year of playing.

I certainly see one but not 2 early

In comment 12208725 CBSGameFace said:

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In comment 12208721 81_Great_Dane said: Quote: all the sweating over what position they draft. I want them to get a great player. I don't care what position it's at. The team is kind of crummy, there are needs almost everywhere -- I don't care whether they draft a tackle or an end or a safety, just get a big-time playmaker who will force the other team to account for him. If they do that we'll all love the pick. If they plug the OL with average starters, we'll have a so-so line, and we'll be wishing they had drafted one of the half-dozen hall of famers that enters the NFL in an average year. If we don't fix our OL and DL, brother, we're in trouble. Hence the handwringing.

How does picking 2 OL back to back help fix the DL?

Was 1988. Erice Moore in round 1 and Jumbo Elliot in round 2. Elliot ended up becoming the better player. Moore ended up at guard. It's not likely IMO that Reese would go OL with our first 2 picks, but if he goes OL round 1 with Scherff for example, then a guy like Humphries is available in round 2 I could see it. Our line would be set for a while if that were to happen.

In 1988, adding Elliott and Moore helped create a dominant line that helped the Giants win Superbowl 25. OJ Anderson had his resurgence because of the offensive line. Simms had an excellent year until he was hurt. We had decent receivers but the line afforded Simms the time to find Ingram and Baker, they didn't always burn by DB's.

I would not be upset with back to back OL early, but with all the needs this team has, I seriously doubt it.

In comment 12208766 Giantology said:

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In comment 12208725 CBSGameFace said: How does picking 2 OL back to back help fix the DL?

Like 2008 despite losing Strahan and Osi, the defense was solid b/c they weren't on the field as often b/c was the OL controlled the game. Bromley gets his shot along with Ellis here now. Add in Selvie at DE and clearly more has been added to the DL already. Fix the OL mess

.

In comment 12208775 Giants2012 said:

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In comment 12208766 Giantology said: Quote: In comment 12208725 CBSGameFace said: How does picking 2 OL back to back help fix the DL? Like 2008 despite losing Strahan and Osi, the defense was solid b/c they weren't on the field as often b/c was the OL controlled the game. Bromley gets his shot along with Ellis here now. Add in Selvie at DE and clearly more has been added to the DL already. Fix the OL mess

So 2 rookies are going to come in and fix the "mess"? Which players are they replacing in the line up? There's arguably one hole to fill on the OL. We also don't have to pick OL players in the first 2 rounds to add talent and depth to the OL.

Selfie and Ellis are both on 1 year deals. JPP is franchised for one year. Moore still has a lot to prove, Wynn will need development. This team has more needs than just OL.

Autocorrect

there is a big drop of an OL that they absolutely love.

We draft in tiers and this is more of a red chip draft which means that their are more bunches than outliers. Tough to see that OL especially when Reese is on record saying that his prediliction is on playmakers would have 2 clear cut picks in the 1st 2 rounds.

Also you need to look at who they have and other needs.

- On OL, they have Pugh and Richburg who are both short term and longer term solutions. Beatty and Schwartz have some time on their contracts still. Schwartz was injured last year but one of their big signings last year. There is no reason to think that they are looking for an immediate replacement. Beatty is in similar situation. He makes more money but his contract is not that crazy considering the money that was handed out to someone like Jeremy Pernell who is only a year younger. Jerry is a servicable 5th starter. They can spend a premium (1 or 2) pick to upgrade Jerry and maybe another pick in the top 4 who can serve as a backup for 1-2 years and then start.

- On DL, we have potentially 3 starters who are on 1 year deals and another in the last year of his deal. It makes sense to maybe do the same thing and take 2 in the top 4 and really have some nice depth this year.

In comment 12208779 Giantology said:

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In comment 12208775 Giants2012 said: Quote: In comment 12208766 Giantology said: Quote: In comment 12208725 CBSGameFace said: How does picking 2 OL back to back help fix the DL? Like 2008 despite losing Strahan and Osi, the defense was solid b/c they weren't on the field as often b/c was the OL controlled the game. Bromley gets his shot along with Ellis here now. Add in Selvie at DE and clearly more has been added to the DL already. Fix the OL mess So 2 rookies are going to come in and fix the "mess"? Which players are they replacing in the line up? There's arguably one hole to fill on the OL. We also don't have to pick OL players in the first 2 rounds to add talent and depth to the OL. Selfie and Ellis are both on 1 year deals. JPP is franchised for one year. Moore still has a lot to prove, Wynn will need development. This team has more needs than just OL.

One Guard position is already open unless Pugh moves inside and I doubt the rest play every game. As far as Ellis and Selvie, welcome to the 89% rule where you're going to see more 1 year deals with team likely extending those deals during the season.

and yes, i could see them going OL and DL with the first two picks with OL again in Round 3. Of course, there are holes everywhere including safety.

This FO and coaching staff don't view OL as plug and play so much, not enough to draft them 1st and 2nd rounds...

The Owner Has Said Repeatedly That Its An Area Of Major Need. If They Can Grab Scherff At 9 And One Of The Talented OTs Is Still There At 40 Do it.

In comment 12208842 Emlen'sGremlins said:

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The Owner Has Said Repeatedly That Its An Area Of Major Need. If They Can Grab Scherff At 9 And One Of The Talented OTs Is Still There At 40 Do it.

And this talented OT is going to replace the incumbent Beatty? Pugh? Are you going to move Pugh inside? Where does Schwartz play? That's also a lot of responsibility to expect out of two rookies. We have more than 2 picks, and there will be OL available in Rounds 3-7.

Look at the starting OL and the depth behind them and try to convince anyone that only 1 upgrade is needed

NYG has the "luxury" of being really bad from a personnel perspective. They can do whatever they want position wise in the draft and it can be considered a good class. To avoid positions (outside of QB/RB) would be silly.

In comment 12208750 George from PA said:

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Is Schwartz really a question mark returning?

He was "asked" to take a paycut. You don't do that unless you are willing to cut the guy if he doesn't accept. And he doesn't accept a paycut unless he thinks the only alternative is his release. So he takes a paycut that gives him a chance to earn back his "salary" if he is active on game day for the 16 regular season games.
CONCLUSION: Schwartz's return to health in 2015 is iffy.

The Head Coach and GM have both said that if something better comes around then Pugh could be moved anywhere. Schwartz had two serious injuries last year and was atrocious when he did play in the preseason.

In comment 12208922 Emlen'sGremlins said:

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The Head Coach and GM have both said that if something better comes around then Pugh could be moved anywhere. Schwartz had two serious injuries last year and was atrocious when he did play in the preseason.

Still doesn't mean we have to draft OL in rounds 1 and 2.

This time of year is when people make assumptions about what the Giants will do and treat it as fact or take what my essentially be guidelines or past precedents and using them as indicators with little regard to context.

To say that Reese would never do such a thing is foolish. first you don't know what the organization's perception of need is for the OL. Is it just one player needed at LG or RT or are there deeper concerns about the Schwartz 's health or maybe thery are satisfied as Is. Although I doubt that is the case given some of Coughlin's comments.

Secondly how do they view the overall talent level of this draft class vs the level of need. Maybe depending on how the draft plays out they believe the best convergence of value and need might be drafting a OT and a G. Maybe if they believe Scherff can play LT you draft him first to play LG and move him to replace Beatty next year. If you draft another G or OT you have him to step in and fill the void next year left by Scherff's move.

Also you have no idea what kind of pressure Reese and Coughlin's really are under to win now and how that might impact draft day decisions.

I am not trying to argue OL in the first or bust. There are some strong arguments for going WR or DE. It just rigid inflexibility of some that drives me nuts.

But I highly doubt it.

OL will probably be picked in round 2 or 3. Good interior linemen should be available on day representing good value

..

but, they could also get a DE with a strong grade at #40, which would be better value than an OG at the same pick.

Draft the best players.

I wouldn't mind going OL in 1 and 2. If he's there, I wouldn't mind picking OL 2x between 2 and 4.

Take one in the first two rounds and if you see a prospect between rounds 5 and 7 with potential grab him.

and better depth. So, if we take one in 1 and the BPA in 2, or 3 is also an OL we should grab him. We've done really poorly with late round OL's since Diehl.

In comment 12208925 Giantology said:

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In comment 12208922 Emlen'sGremlins said: Quote: The Head Coach and GM have both said that if something better comes around then Pugh could be moved anywhere. Schwartz had two serious injuries last year and was atrocious when he did play in the preseason. Still doesn't mean we have to draft OL in rounds 1 and 2.

I don't even understand how he reached his conclusion about Beatty based on his own statement. He only mentions what they said about Pugh.

Fine by me - in fact, I would be thrilled. Although, I'm liking the idea of Shelton in the 1st as well. We need to stop the run.

Too much value elsewhere in a deep red chip draft and whether you agree or not Giants have 4 of 5 starting spots already accounted for.

They have rated all the players, and ranked on their board. They will go with the highest ranked player in the first few rounds unless the following occurs (IMO):

1) They can't deal with the agent.
2) It's a position (like QB, Kicker) where either they have a franchise player (like Eli), or they can easily get a replacement FA (Kickers).
3) Too many negatives (Drug History, for example).
4) They have multiple players ranked with the same top grade on their board when the decision to pick comes. At that point, there is a quick discussion about who is the best fit.
5) They get an offer they can't refuse (which almost never happens).

So, their draft will depend on who's picked from the list, and who is the highest player left. That could be two offensive linemen on Rounds 1/2, or it could be a WR and a LB, or an Edge Rusher/Running Back.

Without knowing the rankings on the Giants board, and who gets picked in front of them, we will have no idea what will happen. To say the Giants should do "this" or "that" is fine, but that's not the way it works.

Taking chances (hunches on players) is fine in the later rounds, but you have to get the BPA on your draft board in the first few rounds. Your coach is only as good as the talent he gets.

That does not mean the best athlete (though you'd prefer that to be the case), but the best combination of athlete/player you can get. The guy need to be a top level athlete, but he also needs to be a player.

In comment 12209095 JohnF said:

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They have rated all the players, and ranked on their board. They will go with the highest ranked player in the first few rounds unless the following occurs (IMO): 1) They can't deal with the agent. 2) It's a position (like QB, Kicker) where either they have a franchise player (like Eli), or they can easily get a replacement FA (Kickers). 3) Too many negatives (Drug History, for example). 4) They have multiple players ranked with the same top grade on their board when the decision to pick comes. At that point, there is a quick discussion about who is the best fit. 5) They get an offer they can't refuse (which almost never happens). So, their draft will depend on who's picked from the list, and who is the highest player left. That could be two offensive linemen on Rounds 1/2, or it could be a WR and a LB, or an Edge Rusher/Running Back. Without knowing the rankings on the Giants board, and who gets picked in front of them, we will have no idea what will happen. To say the Giants should do "this" or "that" is fine, but that's not the way it works. Taking chances (hunches on players) is fine in the later rounds, but you have to get the BPA on your draft board in the first few rounds. Your coach is only as good as the talent he gets. That does not mean the best athlete (though you'd prefer that to be the case), but the best combination of athlete/player you can get. The guy need to be a top level athlete, but he also needs to be a player.

Good post. I'd add though, that Jerry Reese also likes to get a combination of value and need and has said as much before... and we've picked players at a position of need in Round 1 several times under his watch.

I think it was in the mid - late 80's?

We scouted "Jumbo" Elliot heavily (I think this is the way it went) before the draft. Then we took William Roberts. According to reports - the rest of the league got nervous (they thought there was something there that that the Giants must have knew about) in regards to Elliot and he was there when we drafted in RD 2 - so we took him. After the fact - the newspaper articles were all praising the Giants for pulling a con.


Here is the problem - everybody agrees that the game is won in the trenches but, NOBODY seems to want to draft OL high - because it is NOT SEXY. If Scherff is there- DRAFT HIM JERRY!

Look at the 49'ers OL from 2 years ago. Look at the Cowboys OL last year - arguably the best OL in the NFL. Does anybody think the Cowboys would have finished 12-4 last year without that OL?

I said before on this site - my dream scenario off-season would have been if the Giants signed Iupati and then drafted Scherff. There is our OL (barring injuries) for the next 4-5 years. Okay, we didn't sign Iupati - lets go OL HIGH this year in the draft. Lets bite the bullet and get it overwith. If it means taking an OL in the first 2 rounds - go for it.

IMHO - of course.

It is possible, let's say they decide to add Collins in round 1, and let's say that peat drops and is there for the taking in round 2, I would certainly pull the trigger on that, and why not, think what the addition of both those players would do for our OLIne! it just depends on who else is available at the time we pick, if the value is there, then why not, the need certainly is. It would allow us to drop Beatty after this season if we wanted to, plus I do think Peat will become a better player in time, not right away, then you have cost control for 4 or 5 seasons, which would happen to be the last of Eli's career, too many reasons for it to be a good idea then to just throw out the mere thought of this. But you don't go into the draft thinking ahead like this at all, I hope you do understand that, this is just another senseless theoretical question, nothing more.

William Roberts Was The 84 Draft. You Meant Eric Moore.

- you are right.

the fact that the Giants dont need two #1's to be a great offense. That would take away from Obj and essentially make Randal useless if Cruz comes back or not.

OL in round one and two makes too much sense for this guy. Have to take a project or a guy with an African name who has enormous upside that no one else sees.

Aaron Ross, Kenny Phillips, David Wilson...it's a regular King Solomon's Mines with Jerry Reese.

Like Jason Pierre-Paul.

But would prefer Scherff / Marpet in the 1st and 3rd.To go along with Richburg,than you got something.Than you can probably live with the 2 guys on the outside.That being Will Beatty and his pincushion,and Barney The Dinosaur at Right Tackle.

In comment 12208773 Rjanyg said:

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Was 1988. Erice Moore in round 1 and Jumbo Elliot in round 2. Elliot ended up becoming the better player. Moore ended up at guard. It's not likely IMO that Reese would go OL with our first 2 picks, but if he goes OL round 1 with Scherff for example, then a guy like Humphries is available in round 2 I could see it. Our line would be set for a while if that were to happen. In 1988, adding Elliott and Moore helped create a dominant line that helped the Giants win Superbowl 25. OJ Anderson had his resurgence because of the offensive line. Simms had an excellent year until he was hurt. We had decent receivers but the line afforded Simms the time to find Ingram and Baker, they didn't always burn by DB's. I would not be upset with back to back OL early, but with all the needs this team has, I seriously doubt it.

That was one hell of a draft for the Giants (thank goodness for those first two picks).

1 10 Eric Moore OT 01/21/1965 Indiana
2 36 Jumbo Elliott OT 04/01/1965 Michigan
3 62 Sheldon White DB 03/01/1965 Miami (OH)
4 92 Ricky Shaw LB 07/28/1965 Oklahoma State
5 118 Jon Carter DT 03/12/1965 Pittsburgh
6 145 David Houle OG 01/20/1965 Michigan State
7 175 Michael Perez QB 03/07/1965 San Jose State
7 186 Danta Whitaker TE 03/14/1964 Mississippi Valley State
8 202 Sammy Lilly DB 02/12/1965 Georgia Tech
10 259 Eric Hickerson DB 10/04/1965 Indiana
10 265 Steve Wilkes TE 05/18/1966 Appalachian State
11 286 Greg Harris WR 12/30/1965 Troy State
12 313 David Futrell DE 03/20/1966 Brigham Young
12 323 Brendan McCormack DE 03/17/1966 South Carolina

2 OL in the first 4 rounds, I could see that.

"put all the eggs in one basket" with just one lineman.

Therefore I believe that the Giants will draft two linemen. One, primarily a Guard and one primarily a Tackle.

In comment 12209157 short lease said:

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I think it was in the mid - late 80's? We scouted "Jumbo" Elliot heavily (I think this is the way it went) before the draft. Then we took William Roberts. According to reports - the rest of the league got nervous (they thought there was something there that that the Giants must have knew about) in regards to Elliot and he was there when we drafted in RD 2 - so we took him. After the fact - the newspaper articles were all praising the Giants for pulling a con. Here is the problem - everybody agrees that the game is won in the trenches but, NOBODY seems to want to draft OL high - because it is NOT SEXY. If Scherff is there- DRAFT HIM JERRY! Look at the 49'ers OL from 2 years ago. Look at the Cowboys OL last year - arguably the best OL in the NFL. Does anybody think the Cowboys would have finished 12-4 last year without that OL? I said before on this site - my dream scenario off-season would have been if the Giants signed Iupati and then drafted Scherff. There is our OL (barring injuries) for the next 4-5 years. Okay, we didn't sign Iupati - lets go OL HIGH this year in the draft. Lets bite the bullet and get it overwith. If it means taking an OL in the first 2 rounds - go for it. IMHO - of course.

Thank you, brother. That is exactly what I am saying. Dallas won last year because in 3rd and 5, they could cram the ball down your throat. As close to unstoppable as I've seen in a long time.

SF is another great example. The 49ers invested three first round picks in stalwart offensive linemen (Staley, Iupati, and Davis) and the results have been great. They have had one of the best offensive lines in the NFL, opening up giant holes for their power run offense.

We need to convert 3rd and short and 4th and short. That has been our Achilles Heel for 3 years now. Baas getting blowed up at the POA gives me the chills. We need to get nasty up front.

Collins/Scherff/Flowers/Cann/Humphries/Marpet get us better ASAP. I'm just saying that we have been clamoring for OL help on this board for three years.

Eli needs a running game like he had back in 2007. That starts with the OL. No brainer.

In comment 12209861 CBSGameFace said:

Quote:

In comment 12209157 short lease said: Quote: I think it was in the mid - late 80's? We scouted "Jumbo" Elliot heavily (I think this is the way it went) before the draft. Then we took William Roberts. According to reports - the rest of the league got nervous (they thought there was something there that that the Giants must have knew about) in regards to Elliot and he was there when we drafted in RD 2 - so we took him. After the fact - the newspaper articles were all praising the Giants for pulling a con. Here is the problem - everybody agrees that the game is won in the trenches but, NOBODY seems to want to draft OL high - because it is NOT SEXY. If Scherff is there- DRAFT HIM JERRY! Look at the 49'ers OL from 2 years ago. Look at the Cowboys OL last year - arguably the best OL in the NFL. Does anybody think the Cowboys would have finished 12-4 last year without that OL? I said before on this site - my dream scenario off-season would have been if the Giants signed Iupati and then drafted Scherff. There is our OL (barring injuries) for the next 4-5 years. Okay, we didn't sign Iupati - lets go OL HIGH this year in the draft. Lets bite the bullet and get it overwith. If it means taking an OL in the first 2 rounds - go for it. IMHO - of course. Thank you, brother. That is exactly what I am saying. Dallas won last year because in 3rd and 5, they could cram the ball down your throat. As close to unstoppable as I've seen in a long time. SF is another great example. The 49ers invested three first round picks in stalwart offensive linemen (Staley, Iupati, and Davis) and the results have been great. They have had one of the best offensive lines in the NFL, opening up giant holes for their power run offense. We need to convert 3rd and short and 4th and short. That has been our Achilles Heel for 3 years now. Baas getting blowed up at the POA gives me the chills. We need to get nasty up front. Collins/Scherff/Flowers/Cann/Humphries/Marpet get us better ASAP. I'm just saying that we have been clamoring for OL help on this board for three years. Eli needs a running game like he had back in 2007. That starts with the OL. No brainer.

Your welcome ... BTW - who is Marpet? : ) (I really don't know) ...

look I don't consider my a FOOTBALL genius but, sooner or later the trenches are going to have to be addressed? Lets go OL this year and get it over with.

..is from a D3 school by the name of Hobart. He's from Hastings, NY which is right around the corner from wher I grew up.

He looked great at the Senior Bowl as he stoned Shelton at line a few times which turned some heads as Shelton is the consensus #2 DT in this draft.

Combine #s were pretty solid also as he ran the fastest 40 of all the OL. Two time team captain fits the GMen's latest MO on drafting.

Thin in his base, he needs the benefit of the NFL weight room (who doesn't). Can be beat on the edge and his technique, while good, is inconsistent. Might be a reach in round 3, but if we took Beckum, Barden and Jernigan in the third, this kid might be worth a shot.

Also, he wants to play here in NY. For whatever that is worth..