not a great one. What has Minnesota or Houston won in the past five years? Give me stud WRs lining up next to each other and force teams to pick their poison.
because another great WR stops defenses from putting 8 and 9 in the box forcing you to cover receivers with safeties which in turn helps your running game. And if one receiver gets hurt.. you still have another great receiver.
This is the one thing I dont get about Giants fans. We look all around the league and see offenses like Green Bay amd Denver that for YEARS have had 3-4 Good to great wide receivers AND still have a good running game.. And those teams are usually in the playoff hunt every year.. We see teams like New England that have a passing attack that gets them to the playoffs every year..
And yet Giants fans are like.. YAY we have ONE proven receiver.. we dont need ANYTHING else.. YAY !!!!!
This is not an either or proposition...The Giants lack interior physicality...the strenght of the this draft is in the 2nd to 3rd round guard talent...that frankly won't be much of a drop off from Shareff....remember Chris Snee wwas picked in the 2nd round...and it's possible that we get such a player in 2015....rather get the best of both worlds and get the impact playmaker in the 1st round...followed by guard in the 2nd or 3rd round...
This is not an either or proposition...The Giants lack interior physicality...the strenght of the this draft is in the 2nd to 3rd round guard talent...that frankly won't be much of a drop off from Shareff....remember Chris Snee wwas picked in the 2nd round...and it's possible that we get such a player in 2015....rather get the best of both worlds and get the impact playmaker in the 1st round...followed by guard in the 2nd or 3rd round...
because another great WR stops defenses from putting 8 and 9 in the box forcing you to cover receivers with safeties which in turn helps your running game. And if one receiver gets hurt.. you still have another great receiver.
This is the one thing I dont get about Giants fans. We look all around the league and see offenses like Green Bay amd Denver that for YEARS have had 3-4 Good to great wide receivers AND still have a good running game.. And those teams are usually in the playoff hunt every year.. We see teams like New England that have a passing attack that gets them to the playoffs every year..
And yet Giants fans are like.. YAY we have ONE proven receiver.. we dont need ANYTHING else.. YAY !!!!!
Are you suggesting that in composite that NE has a better WR corps than the Giants - Green Bay and Denver envy the Giants Superbowl record over the past ten years - Green Bay has had a sporadic running game - neither does Denver have a consistent running game - and NE has had off years for it's running game.
Atlanta has two all-pro receivers and it did bubkas for them last year - There is no formula that says how many good receivers you need to have a good running game - look at Seattle and the 49ers -- they have a poor receiving corps and good running game.
You need a balanced approach and to assemble all of the correct parts to have a playoff bound team. As I see it 2 star WRs is more of a luxury - not that I would turn it down - but the Giants have so many needs and another WR will not necessarily guarantee them a good running game -- while a good front line might do more to make that work
because another great WR stops defenses from putting 8 and 9 in the box forcing you to cover receivers with safeties which in turn helps your running game. And if one receiver gets hurt.. you still have another great receiver.
This is the one thing I dont get about Giants fans. We look all around the league and see offenses like Green Bay amd Denver that for YEARS have had 3-4 Good to great wide receivers AND still have a good running game.. And those teams are usually in the playoff hunt every year.. We see teams like New England that have a passing attack that gets them to the playoffs every year..
And yet Giants fans are like.. YAY we have ONE proven receiver.. we dont need ANYTHING else.. YAY !!!!!
Are you suggesting that in composite that NE has a better WR corps than the Giants - Green Bay and Denver envy the Giants Superbowl record over the past ten years - Green Bay has had a sporadic running game - neither does Denver have a consistent running game - and NE has had off years for it's running game.
Atlanta has two all-pro receivers and it did bubkas for them last year - There is no formula that says how many good receivers you need to have a good running game - look at Seattle and the 49ers -- they have a poor receiving corps and good running game.
You need a balanced approach and to assemble all of the correct parts to have a playoff bound team. As I see it 2 star WRs is more of a luxury - not that I would turn it down - but the Giants have so many needs and another WR will not necessarily guarantee them a good running game -- while a good front line might do more to make that work
GB had the sixth best run game in the NFL by Football Outsiders (adjusted for competition) measure in 2014, third best in 2013.
Denver had the 7th and 10th.
Sporadic doesn't mean what you think it does.
Also, Roddy White looks like an utter shell of what he once was and the Falcons don't have much beyond Julio at this point.
it gets extremely hard to pass inside the five. I want to know we can run the ball for a touch down when the game is on the line and we are inside the five. To many games are lost settling for FGs rather than TDs.
GB had the sixth best run game in the NFL by Football Outsiders (adjusted for competition) measure in 2014, third best in 2013.
Denver had the 7th and 10th.
Sporadic doesn't mean what you think it does.
Also, Roddy White looks like an utter shell of what he once was and the Falcons don't have much beyond Julio at this point.
Perhaps I should tell how I view term sporadic - I am (and was) looking at the past 10 years in making my comments -- and over that length of time particularly Green Bay has been sporadic --- I am not drawing conclusions based on just the last one or two seasons because I believe that looking at personnel issues through the lens of the draft is at a minimum a 4 year viewpoint - but hopefully is a 10 year viewpoint
history suggests a high powered passing game with adequate running game will get job done. Hard to load the box when you have down field threats. Also, not so sure we have fixed the oline so scoring points will be necessary to win games.
I'd rather draft into the inherent strengths of the talent Â
Having two, or three, outstanding wide outs forces the defense to keep safeties deep and only 7 in the box.
7 in the box=instant running game because you'll have five OL, a TE and full back vs 4 DL and 3 linebackers. A hat on a hat and you're off the to the races.
with Williams developing should do it. I don't think Andre gets any respect here. I myself am expecting big things from him this year. Then Jennings and Vahreen to go with the power of 44. Don't think we should take a G at 9, but would address it in round 2 or 3.
The reason is the great running game will set up the passing game and if there is a great running game that means there is good offensive line play as well.
RE: I'd rather draft into the inherent strengths of the talent Â
If that means WR at #9, and OL at #40, so be it. If it means the reverse, so be it. If it means WR and DE, so be it.
Draft the best players.
I could not agree with you more. It's a passing league now but the ability to run will allow for better consistency. There are alot of ways to get there. Take the best player at 9 and build from there. In the 2nd & 3rd rounds you will have several players with the same grades. Balance your roster out that way.
I choose not to choose, that is my choice, because the choice is a stupid choice. The Giants could add a wideout in round 1 and a guard/tackle in round 2 and have both a good running game and a great passing game, the OLine could come together this season and become a very good unit, it depends on how hard guys like Pugh, Beatty, Richburg, and Schwartz work, they have the talent to be a good group, they add a good rookie from this draft, and we know they will, and this line has the chance to be very good, but that will not come easy, it is up to the players and the desire they have to become great players, if that is what they want and work for it, they could become a very good OLine this season, and they have enough good running backs to have a very good running game.
Jennings is a good player, Vereen is player that is really going to help this unit a lot, a very good pass receiver, plus he can be an all around #1 guy for a few games if needed, and Williams is going to make a huge jump in his game this season, I think we may even be puzzled and ask why we brought in Vereen this season. That is how good I think Williams will be this season.
If they were able to land one of the big three receivers also, then this team is going to cause nightmares for other teams this upcoming season. Cooper, White, or Parker would be tremendous additions to this team. So I am hoping for both. The worry for me is all on defense, sure the OLine is still not set, but I think we will learn they are on track this season, they improved last season despite a lot of injuries, and we added more pieces last season, players I expect to improve a lot this season, we are due for a little luck on the injury front. If we do finally get some, I think we are in for a surprise this season. If the defense can at least hold down the other team, they will not be a good defense, that is for sure, but we only need them to be a decent defense, something like the Dallas defense last season is not unrealistic.
Even just a good running game takes pressure off the passing game; and in this O a good running game and OBJ, a good receiver, and ME as the 3rd receiver will put up points almost at will.
I'd be happy. We can use another WR and do some things to help out the running game OR OBJ and a running game would make us a tough offense as well. So either option is fine by me.
only pugh,richburg and beatty (to a lesser extent) are starting nfl calibur OL,IF schwartz could stay healthy then he could be the fourth but his injury history scares me and without know anything about jones at this point and i dont like the prospect of jerry or newhouse being relied upon
they are picking 9 so take la'el collins a future LT,and can play RT or either guard spots in year 1 then in round 3 get one of the many solid OG prospects and patch the OL for many years to come (marpet?)
at times the OL was very good (ie against washington who looked good the week before and they blasted them off the field) and at other times was awful failing to even muster 2 seconds of pass blocking at times thier inconsistancy and fewells terrible "scheme" on defence doomed them to a losing record
fix the OL, control the LOS on offence and make the best of the trio of RB they have now,this will give the giants time of possession and not force eli to make so many big plays to beckham/cruz/randle down the field. this will allow the defence to be fresher which will it turn make for better defence better also add another DE or DE/DT tweener for spags to use in round 2 and round out the rest of the draft with a slot CB,FS,LB and either a WR/TE in the final 4 rounds
Because currently we have NO running game what so ever and adding a running game to the mix will help our passing game probably just as much as another good WR. It would be nice to have the defense not know when a pass play is coming.
Do we want OBJ and draft a WR like Cooper or Parker or White
OR
Do we want an OL like Collins or Scherff to help fix the running game to go with OBJ
The thing is though I want Collins or Scherff because they can also help with the passing game. Better running game and to give Eli more time. When Eli has time he is deadly. When he gets rushed he forces a lot of balls because he is a gunslinger.
So to answer your real question as of today... I take
1. DT Leonard Williams
2. DE Dante Fowler
3. WR Amari Cooper
4. OT La'el Collins
5. OLB/DE Vic Beasley
6. OT Brandon Scherff
7. WR DeVante Parker
8. WR Kevin White
9. SS Landon Collins
10. DE Alvin Dupree
I feel that too many fans underestimate Jones and Newhouse. With these 2 and Jerry we have the chance to be better than average. The job of the OC is to game plan to the strengths of the people that are available. With a lot of quick 3 step drops,play action, and spread formations, the offense should be able to generate mucho points. Draft play maker wide out round 1 DE round 2 and let the coaches do their jobs. We talk about the injury bug of the last 2 years,but no one can predict or change that. The only other team who had as many players on IR last season was Baltimore and they made the playoffs. It can happen for us too.
What part of the dynamics of team offense elude every single one of you? Adding another great WR takes someone out of the box and puts more pressure on the FS and MLB to play pass coverage..which...does what? Everyone....helps the running game.
If, conversely we suddenly had a great running game anyone playing along side OBJ will be much improved because....more attention on doubling OBJ and more attention in the box, leaving a WR one on one more often.
You could at Megatron to this offense and theybstill couldn't rin the ball
But why let reality enter into it. OBJ amd Randle were having monster games. Running game still blew.
It will suck as long as Pugh and Beatty are here. Two finesse tackles. Maybe Richberg helps a lot but another WR doesnt help because most teams front four beat the Giants front 5. LBs and S are barely needed to stop them
You could at Megatron to this offense and theybstill couldn't rin the ball
But why let reality enter into it. OBJ amd Randle were having monster games. Running game still blew.
It will suck as long as Pugh and Beatty are here. Two finesse tackles. Maybe Richberg helps a lot but another WR doesnt help because most teams front four beat the Giants front 5. LBs and S are barely needed to stop them
The problem in 2014 was the interior of the offensive line and not the tackles.
Unless NYG procures one of the two top tackles at #9, the talent drop-off at OL (and the overall crop) means they can look at an OL upgrade and potential starter at #40. Relax.
For those pointing to interior OL as the problem, the point of the draft is to upgrade where you can, and to look beyond the season at hand in terms of potential.
In other words, you don't force a pick at OG at #9 because the interior OL was brutal. #9 is where you consider a LT, a premium talent in a premium spot.
I also feel if Scherff guarantees a great running game while keeping Eli upright......we would all be happy......
but Q: would he be available at 9, if he guarantees a great OL? No.
Isn't this offense predicated on quick tempo and rhythm? I mean it'd be nice to ground & pound when we need to
This is the one thing I dont get about Giants fans. We look all around the league and see offenses like Green Bay amd Denver that for YEARS have had 3-4 Good to great wide receivers AND still have a good running game.. And those teams are usually in the playoff hunt every year.. We see teams like New England that have a passing attack that gets them to the playoffs every year..
And yet Giants fans are like.. YAY we have ONE proven receiver.. we dont need ANYTHING else.. YAY !!!!!
This is the one thing I dont get about Giants fans. We look all around the league and see offenses like Green Bay amd Denver that for YEARS have had 3-4 Good to great wide receivers AND still have a good running game.. And those teams are usually in the playoff hunt every year.. We see teams like New England that have a passing attack that gets them to the playoffs every year..
And yet Giants fans are like.. YAY we have ONE proven receiver.. we dont need ANYTHING else.. YAY !!!!!
Are you suggesting that in composite that NE has a better WR corps than the Giants - Green Bay and Denver envy the Giants Superbowl record over the past ten years - Green Bay has had a sporadic running game - neither does Denver have a consistent running game - and NE has had off years for it's running game.
Atlanta has two all-pro receivers and it did bubkas for them last year - There is no formula that says how many good receivers you need to have a good running game - look at Seattle and the 49ers -- they have a poor receiving corps and good running game.
You need a balanced approach and to assemble all of the correct parts to have a playoff bound team. As I see it 2 star WRs is more of a luxury - not that I would turn it down - but the Giants have so many needs and another WR will not necessarily guarantee them a good running game -- while a good front line might do more to make that work
This way we can run the ball without our RBs getting blown up in the backfield and pass the ball without our QB getting killed.
Quote:
because another great WR stops defenses from putting 8 and 9 in the box forcing you to cover receivers with safeties which in turn helps your running game. And if one receiver gets hurt.. you still have another great receiver.
This is the one thing I dont get about Giants fans. We look all around the league and see offenses like Green Bay amd Denver that for YEARS have had 3-4 Good to great wide receivers AND still have a good running game.. And those teams are usually in the playoff hunt every year.. We see teams like New England that have a passing attack that gets them to the playoffs every year..
And yet Giants fans are like.. YAY we have ONE proven receiver.. we dont need ANYTHING else.. YAY !!!!!
Are you suggesting that in composite that NE has a better WR corps than the Giants - Green Bay and Denver envy the Giants Superbowl record over the past ten years - Green Bay has had a sporadic running game - neither does Denver have a consistent running game - and NE has had off years for it's running game.
Atlanta has two all-pro receivers and it did bubkas for them last year - There is no formula that says how many good receivers you need to have a good running game - look at Seattle and the 49ers -- they have a poor receiving corps and good running game.
You need a balanced approach and to assemble all of the correct parts to have a playoff bound team. As I see it 2 star WRs is more of a luxury - not that I would turn it down - but the Giants have so many needs and another WR will not necessarily guarantee them a good running game -- while a good front line might do more to make that work
GB had the sixth best run game in the NFL by Football Outsiders (adjusted for competition) measure in 2014, third best in 2013.
Denver had the 7th and 10th.
Sporadic doesn't mean what you think it does.
Also, Roddy White looks like an utter shell of what he once was and the Falcons don't have much beyond Julio at this point.
This way we can run the ball without our RBs getting blown up in the backfield and pass the ball without our QB getting killed.
bingo
GB had the sixth best run game in the NFL by Football Outsiders (adjusted for competition) measure in 2014, third best in 2013.
Denver had the 7th and 10th.
Sporadic doesn't mean what you think it does.
Also, Roddy White looks like an utter shell of what he once was and the Falcons don't have much beyond Julio at this point.
Perhaps I should tell how I view term sporadic - I am (and was) looking at the past 10 years in making my comments -- and over that length of time particularly Green Bay has been sporadic --- I am not drawing conclusions based on just the last one or two seasons because I believe that looking at personnel issues through the lens of the draft is at a minimum a 4 year viewpoint - but hopefully is a 10 year viewpoint
Draft the best players.
Having two, or three, outstanding wide outs forces the defense to keep safeties deep and only 7 in the box.
7 in the box=instant running game because you'll have five OL, a TE and full back vs 4 DL and 3 linebackers. A hat on a hat and you're off the to the races.
In 2015 give me a great passing game any day.
Draft the best players.
I could not agree with you more. It's a passing league now but the ability to run will allow for better consistency. There are alot of ways to get there. Take the best player at 9 and build from there. In the 2nd & 3rd rounds you will have several players with the same grades. Balance your roster out that way.
Jennings is a good player, Vereen is player that is really going to help this unit a lot, a very good pass receiver, plus he can be an all around #1 guy for a few games if needed, and Williams is going to make a huge jump in his game this season, I think we may even be puzzled and ask why we brought in Vereen this season. That is how good I think Williams will be this season.
If they were able to land one of the big three receivers also, then this team is going to cause nightmares for other teams this upcoming season. Cooper, White, or Parker would be tremendous additions to this team. So I am hoping for both. The worry for me is all on defense, sure the OLine is still not set, but I think we will learn they are on track this season, they improved last season despite a lot of injuries, and we added more pieces last season, players I expect to improve a lot this season, we are due for a little luck on the injury front. If we do finally get some, I think we are in for a surprise this season. If the defense can at least hold down the other team, they will not be a good defense, that is for sure, but we only need them to be a decent defense, something like the Dallas defense last season is not unrealistic.
And make no mistake, that is exactly what the OP is getting at. It isn't just a random curiosity.
they are picking 9 so take la'el collins a future LT,and can play RT or either guard spots in year 1 then in round 3 get one of the many solid OG prospects and patch the OL for many years to come (marpet?)
at times the OL was very good (ie against washington who looked good the week before and they blasted them off the field) and at other times was awful failing to even muster 2 seconds of pass blocking at times thier inconsistancy and fewells terrible "scheme" on defence doomed them to a losing record
fix the OL, control the LOS on offence and make the best of the trio of RB they have now,this will give the giants time of possession and not force eli to make so many big plays to beckham/cruz/randle down the field. this will allow the defence to be fresher which will it turn make for better defence better also add another DE or DE/DT tweener for spags to use in round 2 and round out the rest of the draft with a slot CB,FS,LB and either a WR/TE in the final 4 rounds
for OUR side.
OR
Do we want an OL like Collins or Scherff to help fix the running game to go with OBJ
The thing is though I want Collins or Scherff because they can also help with the passing game. Better running game and to give Eli more time. When Eli has time he is deadly. When he gets rushed he forces a lot of balls because he is a gunslinger.
So to answer your real question as of today... I take
1. DT Leonard Williams
2. DE Dante Fowler
3. WR Amari Cooper
4. OT La'el Collins
5. OLB/DE Vic Beasley
6. OT Brandon Scherff
7. WR DeVante Parker
8. WR Kevin White
9. SS Landon Collins
10. DE Alvin Dupree
If, conversely we suddenly had a great running game anyone playing along side OBJ will be much improved because....more attention on doubling OBJ and more attention in the box, leaving a WR one on one more often.
Idiotic question, idiotic answers.
But why let reality enter into it. OBJ amd Randle were having monster games. Running game still blew.
It will suck as long as Pugh and Beatty are here. Two finesse tackles. Maybe Richberg helps a lot but another WR doesnt help because most teams front four beat the Giants front 5. LBs and S are barely needed to stop them
But why let reality enter into it. OBJ amd Randle were having monster games. Running game still blew.
It will suck as long as Pugh and Beatty are here. Two finesse tackles. Maybe Richberg helps a lot but another WR doesnt help because most teams front four beat the Giants front 5. LBs and S are barely needed to stop them
The problem in 2014 was the interior of the offensive line and not the tackles.
For those pointing to interior OL as the problem, the point of the draft is to upgrade where you can, and to look beyond the season at hand in terms of potential.
In other words, you don't force a pick at OG at #9 because the interior OL was brutal. #9 is where you consider a LT, a premium talent in a premium spot.