So with LSU's prod day in the books and with the Giants in very high profile attendance I thought this article on Big Blue View was quite interesting. It takes a look at Collins vs Dante Fowler, the consensus top pass rusher in the draft. Looks like Collins got the best of this match-up and appears to be rising up draft boards quite a bit. Looks like he has gone from a top 20 selection to a strongly possibility in the top 10.
I'm no OL play analyst, but I know plenty of BBI contributors have some experience. Would be interested in hearing some more expert opinions. Clearly the Giants have interest, which tells me they see him as a tackle and possible a LT in a year or two.
La'el Collins vs. Dante Fowler: Collins was the clear winner - (
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I would be fine with Collins, but not thrilled. Peat I want nothing to do with.
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If Collins is the pick, where do you think he starts on the line year 1?
I'd place my money on RT, with Pugh moving to LG.
Left Guard
the defender that Collins is assigned to block is rarely involved in the tackle/pass rush. He is good at taking his man out of the play.
My biggest gripe with Scherff is that the man he is supposed to block is far too often involved in the tackle/pass rush.
I said something similar in an earlier thread, he literally erases the guy he's blocking form the play.
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If Collins is the pick, where do you think he starts on the line year 1?
Left Guard
Sy, thanks for all of your comments. Looking forward to your OL write-up.
When you say he would play LG in year one, do you eventually see him as a LT in this league (as some have said recently) or is he a RT.
Personally, I think the Giants would like to keep Pugh at RT. Us fans often forget he's never played LG, and it's only his frame and T-rex arms (tongue in cheek) that project him to LG on BBI.
Collins grades out the best when it comes to performance. He doesn't look the best but his assignment doesn't make plays, plain and simple. I've spent a lot of time on these three and Collins is the best football player at the moment. I think he is the safest prospect of the three. He can do more than what Zack Martin did for the Cowboys,
Wow. If he's better than Martin was at this time last year, he'd be worth a #9. Sy, that makes me feel a lot better if they do go Oline with the first pick.
Personally, I think the Giants would like to keep Pugh at RT. Us fans often forget he's never played LG, and it's only his frame and T-rex arms (tongue in cheek) that project him to LG on BBI.
Emil, I can't count how many times posters said, "just kick Pugh over to guard and...".
I usually point to the fact that he has NEVER played Guard except for a few snaps at the Senior Bowl. You cannot tell if he can even play the position let alone assume you can simply slide him over.
Pugh is probably the guy who will eventually replace Beatty as he gets stronger, IMO.
Can Lael be a true left tackle in the NFL or is he more of a guard? For me personally, it doesn’t matter. I draft him and put him on the line and at some point in his career I work him as a left tackle. For the purposes of this draft, I’m sure he can play left tackle in a pinch and I know for sure he can be a dominating guard or right tackle right away. Lael strikes me as the type of player who loves a challenge and he will make himself a Pro Bowl left tackle because of his pride and personal commitment. He is also smart and knows that left tackles make the money and I think Lael’s pride will want him to be a top left tackle in the NFL. It might take a little time because his techniques (when pass blocking) are not the best. He hold his hands too low and his lateral agility is not top notch, but with a little better technique, because of his overall athleticism, Lael can accomplish being one of the best left tackles in the NFL. I would also see if he can make snaps and work him out at the center position. If he can or has proven in the past to have played the center position, that just helps his case as one of the top and dominating offensive lineman in this draft.
Drew Boylhart
JAN/2015
Boston College
LSU
Syracuse
Am I missing any?
Of course, it could all be coincidence.
Can Lael be a true left tackle in the NFL or is he more of a guard? For me personally, it doesn’t matter. I draft him and put him on the line and at some point in his career I work him as a left tackle. For the purposes of this draft, I’m sure he can play left tackle in a pinch and I know for sure he can be a dominating guard or right tackle right away. Lael strikes me as the type of player who loves a challenge and he will make himself a Pro Bowl left tackle because of his pride and personal commitment. He is also smart and knows that left tackles make the money and I think Lael’s pride will want him to be a top left tackle in the NFL. It might take a little time because his techniques (when pass blocking) are not the best. He hold his hands too low and his lateral agility is not top notch, but with a little better technique, because of his overall athleticism, Lael can accomplish being one of the best left tackles in the NFL. I would also see if he can make snaps and work him out at the center position. If he can or has proven in the past to have played the center position, that just helps his case as one of the top and dominating offensive lineman in this draft.
Drew Boylhart
JAN/2015
Hmmm, a backup center too. His value just keeps rising.
It's going to be a zoo here on BBI as #9 pick approaches (+ the trade down contingent)
You don't know what the right move is so quit acting like you do. The draft hasn't even started yet dude,so how do you know what the right move is!? Let me answer that. You don't!
Golly...I don't know how to trade down, either. Can you please explain how it's done?
That's the bad news.
The good news?
This fat, slow and un-athletic player with the bad footwork rarely gets beat.
I'd take him at 9, and then come around at 40 and take the best guard on the board.
Then DL and LB in third and fourth rounds.
And then I don't care what the Giants do.
Scherff is a road grader. I think at the Guard position he will be a Stud, another Zack Martin.
Collins has great feet and is very versatile, this kid can play LT or RT and even at guard.
Flowers looks good overall, can be a solid RT imo. Reminds me a lot of Kareem Mckenzie..
If Scherff is gone, Collins and Flowers can be good trade down options. That's assuming the Giants decide to go with an offensive linemen in the 1st rd.
M.S. says his footwork is sloppy and prdave says Collins has great feet.
I'm curious to know how you made your assessments. Do you watch live games, tape or combine results? I'm not saying anyone is right or wrong. I'm just curious as to how two knowledgeable football fans came away with diametrically opposed positions on Collins?
I am inclined to agree with you as what I saw of him live projects well to McAdoo's system. He gets to the second level quickly and is downright scary when he does. He is only 305 lbs but has the frame to pack on another 15 lbs. easy. And playing in the SEC don't hurt.
I am high on him in a tradeback scenario, but not at 9. Gotta start stacking picks like those damn Patriots (9) and Seahawks (11). Wow. What a coincidence that the Pats and Hawks who always seem to have a plethora of picks were in the SB.
Interesting.
This
...live games and some Youtube viewing.
But mostly live games.
Well, that's your opinion and you're entitled to it, but, again, that's not the point.
Forget the OL for a moment and plug in, say, DeVante Parker or Bud Dupree. You see the same things written about them: Oh yeah, I like him, but not at #9. I'd trade down and get him later on. As if Reese can snap his fingers and magically engineer a trade-down...a trade-down that guarantees the player he really likes will still be available to him. Sheesh.
I see your point, and Reese agrees with you. To me, that indicates the grades/value aren't big enough to argue over. Trading down is a red herring until you're actually on the clock, and good luck actually making the trade down unless a QB or WR slips to #9.
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I mean he's quick enough to handle the quicker and agile DE's, you can see it when you look at some of his gameplay as well as how he did in the combine. He's just very athletic. Can he improve on his footwork, sure he can most of them could. I'm sure that will improve once they start working with Nfl coaches..
I am inclined to agree with you as what I saw of him live projects well to McAdoo's system. He gets to the second level quickly and is downright scary when he does. He is only 305 lbs but has the frame to pack on another 15 lbs. easy. And playing in the SEC don't hurt.
I am high on him in a tradeback scenario, but not at 9. Gotta start stacking picks like those damn Patriots (9) and Seahawks (11). Wow. What a coincidence that the Pats and Hawks who always seem to have a plethora of picks were in the SB.
Interesting.
Collins was 320 at his pro day.
The "I would trade down" thing should be cause for automatic banishment.
We'd all love to trade down, grab some extra picks, then select the player we wanted all along....
It's the equivalent of saying "I would love to winner the lottery today"....Yet, year after year, people come and post the same garbage over and over.
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In comment 12209908 prdave73 said:
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I mean he's quick enough to handle the quicker and agile DE's, you can see it when you look at some of his gameplay as well as how he did in the combine. He's just very athletic. Can he improve on his footwork, sure he can most of them could. I'm sure that will improve once they start working with Nfl coaches..
I am inclined to agree with you as what I saw of him live projects well to McAdoo's system. He gets to the second level quickly and is downright scary when he does. He is only 305 lbs but has the frame to pack on another 15 lbs. easy. And playing in the SEC don't hurt.
I am high on him in a tradeback scenario, but not at 9. Gotta start stacking picks like those damn Patriots (9) and Seahawks (11). Wow. What a coincidence that the Pats and Hawks who always seem to have a plethora of picks were in the SB.
Interesting.
Collins was 320 at his pro day.
Woot!! There it is......
It's very close between the two top OL now but his elite agility and power base makes Scherff the better pro prospect imo. Very few to no college players are finished products when they hit reach the NFL. Scherff has the higher ceiling while still having a high floor.
It's very close between the two top OL now but his elite agility and power base makes Scherff the better pro prospect imo. Very few to no college players are finished products when they hit reach the NFL. Scherff has the higher ceiling while still having a high floor.
Agree that Scherff would seem to be the type from a measurable and agility standpoint the Giants would prefer.