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La'el Collins OT LSU Says Watch the Tape

Emil : 3/29/2015 11:29 am
So with LSU's prod day in the books and with the Giants in very high profile attendance I thought this article on Big Blue View was quite interesting. It takes a look at Collins vs Dante Fowler, the consensus top pass rusher in the draft. Looks like Collins got the best of this match-up and appears to be rising up draft boards quite a bit. Looks like he has gone from a top 20 selection to a strongly possibility in the top 10.

I'm no OL play analyst, but I know plenty of BBI contributors have some experience. Would be interested in hearing some more expert opinions. Clearly the Giants have interest, which tells me they see him as a tackle and possible a LT in a year or two.
La'el Collins vs. Dante Fowler: Collins was the clear winner - ( New Window )
When it comes to  
Sy'56 : 3/29/2015 11:36 am : link
Collins vs. Scherff vs. Peat

Collins grades out the best when it comes to performance. He doesn't look the best but his assignment doesn't make plays, plain and simple. I've spent a lot of time on these three and Collins is the best football player at the moment. I think he is the safest prospect of the three. He can do more than what Zack Martin did for the Cowboys,
Sy  
jayg5 : 3/29/2015 11:46 am : link
If Collins is the pick, where do you think he starts on the line year 1?
both Collins and Scherff have high floors as offensive linemen imo  
Torrag : 3/29/2015 11:47 am : link
with Scherff having better athleticism and upside imo. Both players are ranked within a few slots of each other on the overall draft board. The Giants will do well with either if we go that route. Peat on the other hand worries me. Carrying a lot of bad weight and plays a passive game imo. Easily the highest risk/bust potential of the three.
RE: When it comes to  
Dave in Buffalo : 3/29/2015 11:57 am : link
Sy'56 said:
Quote:
but his assignment doesn't make plays


Sy, what does this mean?
Id assume the player  
jayg5 : 3/29/2015 11:58 am : link
Collins is assigned to doesn't make plays.
RE: Sy  
Sy'56 : 3/29/2015 12:00 pm : link
In comment 12208998 jayg5 said:
Quote:
If Collins is the pick, where do you think he starts on the line year 1?


Left Guard
Dave in Buffalo  
Sy'56 : 3/29/2015 12:02 pm : link
What I meant...

the defender that Collins is assigned to block is rarely involved in the tackle/pass rush. He is good at taking his man out of the play.

My biggest gripe with Scherff is that the man he is supposed to block is far too often involved in the tackle/pass rush.
Sy...  
Strip-Sack : 3/29/2015 12:07 pm : link
What's your concern with Peat...is it his winded combine and baby fat issues or other things you see on tape like lack of aggressiveness?

Thanks for all your insight btw, very much appreciated!
Sy  
blapre74 : 3/29/2015 12:09 pm : link
You know your stuff, IMHO, and I look for your expert commentary when the Gmen draft in ea of the 7 rounds. I hope it's not Peat. Kiper gave him the kiss of death already :)
Sounds like a line from the movie "Draft Day"  
CromartiesKid21 : 3/29/2015 12:12 pm : link
Quote:
La'el Collins OT LSU Says Watch the Tape

RE: Sy...  
Sy'56 : 3/29/2015 12:13 pm : link
In comment 12209020 Strip-Sack said:
Quote:
What's your concern with Peat...is it his winded combine and baby fat issues or other things you see on tape like lack of aggressiveness?

Thanks for all your insight btw, very much appreciated!


My main issue with Peat is the physical conditioning and his lack of ability to sustain his level of play throughout a game. I think the issues are tied together.

The work ethic related to his strength and conditioning is information that is likely only available to scouts because of the interaction ti support staff. If he has margin for improvement there, I think you are looking at a guy that can play LT at a high level.
Watched the first half  
Carl in CT : 3/29/2015 12:21 pm : link
So nothing special so turned it off.
RE: RE: Sy...  
Strip-Sack : 3/29/2015 12:24 pm : link
In comment 12209028 Sy'56 said:
Quote:
In comment 12209020 Strip-Sack said:


Quote:


What's your concern with Peat...is it his winded combine and baby fat issues or other things you see on tape like lack of aggressiveness?

Thanks for all your insight btw, very much appreciated!



My main issue with Peat is the physical conditioning and his lack of ability to sustain his level of play throughout a game. I think the issues are tied together.

The work ethic related to his strength and conditioning is information that is likely only available to scouts because of the interaction ti support staff. If he has margin for improvement there, I think you are looking at a guy that can play LT at a high level.


Thanks Sy!
Collins  
AcidTest : 3/29/2015 12:27 pm : link
Scherff
Peat

in that order for me, but Peat has the best feet of the three, and therefore the best chance of all of them to become a franchise LT.

If the Giants draft any of them, it will be interesting if Pugh then moves to guard. This will be the first year for Richburg at center. With Schwartz coming back at RG, they may want another veteran to his left. Beatty also deserves a better LG. The rookie then starts at RG.
Been my pick for months if we go O Line  
BlueHurricane : 3/29/2015 12:30 pm : link
Still hoping Cooper falls to us. If not I want Collins
With the likelihood that Cooper and White  
Jay on the Island : 3/29/2015 12:49 pm : link
will both be gone by 9 I just think the best use of the 9th pick is on either Peat or Collins. Peat has the highest upside but Collins seems like the safer pick. It's a tough decision to make.
I like Scherff a lot  
UberAlias : 3/29/2015 12:51 pm : link
If Fowler and Cooper are gone, he's the guy I'm rooting for and it's not a vote for need. And I'm not concerned about OG vs. OT either. He'd be a huge upgrade on our Oline regardless of where they put him.

I would be fine with Collins, but not thrilled. Peat I want nothing to do with.
RE: RE: Sy  
jeff57 : 3/29/2015 12:51 pm : link
In comment 12209015 Sy'56 said:
Quote:
In comment 12208998 jayg5 said:


Quote:


If Collins is the pick, where do you think he starts on the line year 1?


I'd place my money on RT, with Pugh moving to LG.


Left Guard
RE: Dave in Buffalo  
Joey in VA : 3/29/2015 12:54 pm : link
In comment 12209018 Sy'56 said:
Quote:
What I meant...

the defender that Collins is assigned to block is rarely involved in the tackle/pass rush. He is good at taking his man out of the play.

My biggest gripe with Scherff is that the man he is supposed to block is far too often involved in the tackle/pass rush.


I said something similar in an earlier thread, he literally erases the guy he's blocking form the play.
dante fowler might be a tad over rated  
idiotsavant : 3/29/2015 1:10 pm : link
.
What's the issue with Collins at RT?  
PatersonPlank : 3/29/2015 1:40 pm : link
.
Question With Collins  
Samiam : 3/29/2015 1:53 pm : link
I think the question is can he play LT eventually. I don't think Reese would take an interior lineman or even a RT with the 9th pick unless we're talking all pro. A LT is a different story. If long term Collins can replace Beatty but short term fill a critical need on the OL either as a guard or RT, he very well could be the pick. I have no idea about his longer term prospects. If the Giants do trade down, he becomes more of a possibility
RE: RE: Sy  
Emil : 3/29/2015 1:54 pm : link
In comment 12209015 Sy'56 said:
Quote:
In comment 12208998 jayg5 said:


Quote:


If Collins is the pick, where do you think he starts on the line year 1?



Left Guard


Sy, thanks for all of your comments. Looking forward to your OL write-up.

When you say he would play LG in year one, do you eventually see him as a LT in this league (as some have said recently) or is he a RT.

Personally, I think the Giants would like to keep Pugh at RT. Us fans often forget he's never played LG, and it's only his frame and T-rex arms (tongue in cheek) that project him to LG on BBI.
RE: When it comes to  
mrvax : 3/29/2015 1:56 pm : link
In comment 12208986 Sy'56 said:
Quote:
Collins vs. Scherff vs. Peat

Collins grades out the best when it comes to performance. He doesn't look the best but his assignment doesn't make plays, plain and simple. I've spent a lot of time on these three and Collins is the best football player at the moment. I think he is the safest prospect of the three. He can do more than what Zack Martin did for the Cowboys,


Wow. If he's better than Martin was at this time last year, he'd be worth a #9. Sy, that makes me feel a lot better if they do go Oline with the first pick.
RE: RE: RE: Sy  
mrvax : 3/29/2015 1:59 pm : link
In comment 12209121 Emil said:
Quote:

Personally, I think the Giants would like to keep Pugh at RT. Us fans often forget he's never played LG, and it's only his frame and T-rex arms (tongue in cheek) that project him to LG on BBI.


Emil, I can't count how many times posters said, "just kick Pugh over to guard and...".

I usually point to the fact that he has NEVER played Guard except for a few snaps at the Senior Bowl. You cannot tell if he can even play the position let alone assume you can simply slide him over.

Pugh is probably the guy who will eventually replace Beatty as he gets stronger, IMO.
Sounds like another guy who could play Tackle or Guard  
PatersonPlank : 3/29/2015 2:03 pm : link
Is he a better RT prospect than Scherff?
I'd love to get another guy who could play T or G ( like Pugh)  
PatersonPlank : 3/29/2015 2:06 pm : link
That would gives us a number of combinations in the effort to find the best overall line, and give us depth in case of injury. I'm all for drafting with Collins or Scherff.
Boylhart thinks he is the goods  
TMS : 3/29/2015 2:08 pm : link
whether at tackle or guardBOTTOM LINE
Can Lael be a true left tackle in the NFL or is he more of a guard? For me personally, it doesn’t matter. I draft him and put him on the line and at some point in his career I work him as a left tackle. For the purposes of this draft, I’m sure he can play left tackle in a pinch and I know for sure he can be a dominating guard or right tackle right away. Lael strikes me as the type of player who loves a challenge and he will make himself a Pro Bowl left tackle because of his pride and personal commitment. He is also smart and knows that left tackles make the money and I think Lael’s pride will want him to be a top left tackle in the NFL. It might take a little time because his techniques (when pass blocking) are not the best. He hold his hands too low and his lateral agility is not top notch, but with a little better technique, because of his overall athleticism, Lael can accomplish being one of the best left tackles in the NFL. I would also see if he can make snaps and work him out at the center position. If he can or has proven in the past to have played the center position, that just helps his case as one of the top and dominating offensive lineman in this draft.

Drew Boylhart
JAN/2015
If the GIants draft Collins  
Emil : 3/29/2015 2:10 pm : link
I think we can safely say their top 3 college programs are:

Boston College
LSU
Syracuse

Am I missing any?

Of course, it could all be coincidence.
RE: Boylhart thinks he is the goods  
Emil : 3/29/2015 2:15 pm : link
In comment 12209141 TMS said:
Quote:
whether at tackle or guardBOTTOM LINE
Can Lael be a true left tackle in the NFL or is he more of a guard? For me personally, it doesn’t matter. I draft him and put him on the line and at some point in his career I work him as a left tackle. For the purposes of this draft, I’m sure he can play left tackle in a pinch and I know for sure he can be a dominating guard or right tackle right away. Lael strikes me as the type of player who loves a challenge and he will make himself a Pro Bowl left tackle because of his pride and personal commitment. He is also smart and knows that left tackles make the money and I think Lael’s pride will want him to be a top left tackle in the NFL. It might take a little time because his techniques (when pass blocking) are not the best. He hold his hands too low and his lateral agility is not top notch, but with a little better technique, because of his overall athleticism, Lael can accomplish being one of the best left tackles in the NFL. I would also see if he can make snaps and work him out at the center position. If he can or has proven in the past to have played the center position, that just helps his case as one of the top and dominating offensive lineman in this draft.

Drew Boylhart
JAN/2015


Hmmm, a backup center too. His value just keeps rising.
I respect Sy  
PaulN : 3/29/2015 2:20 pm : link
And although I am not the analyst he is, everything I am watching on film and listening to the so called draft guru's, I would agree with what Sy is saying, and if the Giants did make him the pick, I would not be disappointed at all, if you put him at guard or at right tackle, he would do a great job for us, and he could be better then Martin, he is bigger and has great feet, that is huge alone.
^  
ColHowPepper : 3/29/2015 2:25 pm : link
Collins, Scherff, Peat, Gregory (ha), Cooper, White, Fowler, LW, then you have the two QBs at the top of the draft, Giants are a lock to get someone about whom to be very excited, and didn't even include Beasely, with Scherff and Peat now viewed by some as lesser desirables among that group. I do like Collins myself, I like his confidence--"watch the tape"

It's going to be a zoo here on BBI as #9 pick approaches (+ the trade down contingent)
Collins, Scherf or Peat  
Salty Meats : 3/29/2015 5:07 pm : link
but we all know the Moron will take Fowler who has bust written all over him. If we don't go OL this guy will just never get it and I hope he gets the pink slip after another 7 and 9 season. The real move is to trade down but Reese doesn't know how to.
Salty Meats  
chillinman1183 : 3/29/2015 5:22 pm : link
To bad you couldn't run the FO,we'd be playoff bound every year. Not to mention the dynasty we'd become,winning championship after championship. Hahaha...
You don't know what the right move is so quit acting like you do. The draft hasn't even started yet dude,so how do you know what the right move is!? Let me answer that. You don't!
RE: Collins, Scherf or Peat  
Klaatu : 3/29/2015 5:59 pm : link
In comment 12209311 Salty Meats said:
Quote:
but we all know the Moron will take Fowler who has bust written all over him. If we don't go OL this guy will just never get it and I hope he gets the pink slip after another 7 and 9 season. The real move is to trade down but Reese doesn't know how to.


Golly...I don't know how to trade down, either. Can you please explain how it's done?
imo Collins is a Top 5 prospect  
Osi Osi Osi OyOyOy : 3/29/2015 5:59 pm : link
would love him at 9. People need to understand that the difference between G/RT and LT is much smaller in today's game than it was a few years ago. Collins looks like an absolutely elite NFL Guard in my eyes.
I just don't see Collins as that special.  
yatqb : 3/29/2015 8:00 pm : link
His AA is very ordinary. Strong as hell and aggressive, but not the most mobile guy in the world. I like Scherff a lot more.
during the combine drills  
Osi Osi Osi OyOyOy : 3/29/2015 8:03 pm : link
he was the most graceful moving OLineman of anyone projected to go early. He didn't have the 3Cone of Scherff but he moves extremely well imo.
My Problem with Collins...  
M.S. : 3/29/2015 8:25 pm : link
...is that he looks fat, slow and un-athletic with lazy footwork.

That's the bad news.

The good news?

This fat, slow and un-athletic player with the bad footwork rarely gets beat.

I'd take him at 9, and then come around at 40 and take the best guard on the board.

Then DL and LB in third and fourth rounds.

And then I don't care what the Giants do.
I like Collins a lot yet  
Giants2012 : 3/29/2015 8:34 pm : link
thought he was heavier in weight.

I like in this order,  
prdave73 : 3/30/2015 1:12 am : link
Scherff, Collins, Flowers.

Scherff is a road grader. I think at the Guard position he will be a Stud, another Zack Martin.

Collins has great feet and is very versatile, this kid can play LT or RT and even at guard.

Flowers looks good overall, can be a solid RT imo. Reminds me a lot of Kareem Mckenzie..

If Scherff is gone, Collins and Flowers can be good trade down options. That's assuming the Giants decide to go with an offensive linemen in the 1st rd.
M.S. and prdave....  
CBSGameFace : 3/30/2015 1:19 am : link
You both mentioned his footwork, but you are at polar opposites when describing it.

M.S. says his footwork is sloppy and prdave says Collins has great feet.

I'm curious to know how you made your assessments. Do you watch live games, tape or combine results? I'm not saying anyone is right or wrong. I'm just curious as to how two knowledgeable football fans came away with diametrically opposed positions on Collins?
When i say he has great feet,  
prdave73 : 3/30/2015 3:17 am : link
I mean he's quick enough to handle the quicker and agile DE's, you can see it when you look at some of his gameplay as well as how he did in the combine. He's just very athletic. Can he improve on his footwork, sure he can most of them could. I'm sure that will improve once they start working with Nfl coaches..
RE: When i say he has great feet,  
CBSGameFace : 3/30/2015 4:39 am : link
In comment 12209908 prdave73 said:
Quote:
I mean he's quick enough to handle the quicker and agile DE's, you can see it when you look at some of his gameplay as well as how he did in the combine. He's just very athletic. Can he improve on his footwork, sure he can most of them could. I'm sure that will improve once they start working with Nfl coaches..


I am inclined to agree with you as what I saw of him live projects well to McAdoo's system. He gets to the second level quickly and is downright scary when he does. He is only 305 lbs but has the frame to pack on another 15 lbs. easy. And playing in the SEC don't hurt.

I am high on him in a tradeback scenario, but not at 9. Gotta start stacking picks like those damn Patriots (9) and Seahawks (11). Wow. What a coincidence that the Pats and Hawks who always seem to have a plethora of picks were in the SB.

Interesting.
I don't understand why Collins would be a bad pick at #9...  
Klaatu : 3/30/2015 9:02 am : link
But a good pick at, say, #15? If he's your guy, you should take him when you can.
yat  
JonC : 3/30/2015 9:07 am : link
That's what I see with Collins, the ordinary AA, which is why I think tackle projections are iffy with him. That and he lacks the size NYG tends to look for at tackle (Pugh notwithstanding).
RE: I don't understand why Collins would be a bad pick at #9...  
Big Blue '56 : 3/30/2015 9:08 am : link
In comment 12210011 Klaatu said:
Quote:
But a good pick at, say, #15? If he's your guy, you should take him when you can.


This
Klaatu  
JonC : 3/30/2015 9:08 am : link
Look at a draft board. If he's #15, in theory you have a handful of better players available to you at #9. It's a slight reach to pick him, which is something Reese has consistently shown he's willing to do, btw.
But what if the other options  
Big Blue '56 : 3/30/2015 9:11 am : link
are gone and it's between Collins and Scherff?

What other options?  
JonC : 3/30/2015 9:12 am : link
OL? I'm not drafting a position.
No, I mean other BPA options  
Big Blue '56 : 3/30/2015 9:14 am : link
for Reese like Cooper, Beasley, White etc. and on the Giants board/tier it's between Collins and Scherff?
No one knows where the Giants have him or anyone else ranked.  
Klaatu : 3/30/2015 9:15 am : link
The point is that if he's the guy they really covet (and I'm not arguing that he is), they should take him when they have the chance, not risk losing him by trading down.
I'd pick Peat first, Scherff second  
JonC : 3/30/2015 9:15 am : link
I think #9 will be too high for Collins.
CBSGameFace...  
M.S. : 3/30/2015 9:48 am : link

...live games and some Youtube viewing.

But mostly live games.
RE: I'd pick Peat first, Scherff second  
Klaatu : 3/30/2015 9:48 am : link
In comment 12210030 JonC said:
Quote:
I think #9 will be too high for Collins.


Well, that's your opinion and you're entitled to it, but, again, that's not the point.

Forget the OL for a moment and plug in, say, DeVante Parker or Bud Dupree. You see the same things written about them: Oh yeah, I like him, but not at #9. I'd trade down and get him later on. As if Reese can snap his fingers and magically engineer a trade-down...a trade-down that guarantees the player he really likes will still be available to him. Sheesh.
K  
JonC : 3/30/2015 9:51 am : link
That response was for BB56.

I see your point, and Reese agrees with you. To me, that indicates the grades/value aren't big enough to argue over. Trading down is a red herring until you're actually on the clock, and good luck actually making the trade down unless a QB or WR slips to #9.
RE: RE: When i say he has great feet,  
drkenneth : 3/30/2015 10:12 am : link
In comment 12209913 CBSGameFace said:
Quote:
In comment 12209908 prdave73 said:


Quote:


I mean he's quick enough to handle the quicker and agile DE's, you can see it when you look at some of his gameplay as well as how he did in the combine. He's just very athletic. Can he improve on his footwork, sure he can most of them could. I'm sure that will improve once they start working with Nfl coaches..



I am inclined to agree with you as what I saw of him live projects well to McAdoo's system. He gets to the second level quickly and is downright scary when he does. He is only 305 lbs but has the frame to pack on another 15 lbs. easy. And playing in the SEC don't hurt.

I am high on him in a tradeback scenario, but not at 9. Gotta start stacking picks like those damn Patriots (9) and Seahawks (11). Wow. What a coincidence that the Pats and Hawks who always seem to have a plethora of picks were in the SB.

Interesting.


Collins was 320 at his pro day.
No worries, Jon.  
Klaatu : 3/30/2015 10:20 am : link
I'm just tired of hearing about how the Giants should trade down. I blame that fanspeak thing.
The battle against short perspective never ends  
JonC : 3/30/2015 10:28 am : link
There's things I type daily here regarding the draft that I was typing in 1995 on BBI ...
In my opinion, if Collins is the guy Reese wants you take him  
PatersonPlank : 3/30/2015 10:32 am : link
regardless if the pundits think he is #8, #9, or #15. He's in the area, and he certainly won't be there at #40. Besides these rankings are all guesses anyway. The difference between #9 and #15 is probably zero.
RE: No worries, Jon.  
drkenneth : 3/30/2015 10:36 am : link
In comment 12210109 Klaatu said:
Quote:
I'm just tired of hearing about how the Giants should trade down. I blame that fanspeak thing.


The "I would trade down" thing should be cause for automatic banishment.

We'd all love to trade down, grab some extra picks, then select the player we wanted all along....

It's the equivalent of saying "I would love to winner the lottery today"....Yet, year after year, people come and post the same garbage over and over.
Question for Sy  
DonnieD89 : 3/30/2015 10:36 am : link
If you have Collins ahead of Martin from last year, are you comparing their grades at G or at OLine in general? How does Collins compare to last year's Robinson, Matthews and Lewan, if you are comparing Collin's ability at LT? Thanks for your ongoing input. It is greatly appreciated.
RE: RE: RE: When i say he has great feet,  
CBSGameFace : 3/30/2015 1:04 pm : link
In comment 12210098 drkenneth said:
Quote:
In comment 12209913 CBSGameFace said:


Quote:


In comment 12209908 prdave73 said:


Quote:


I mean he's quick enough to handle the quicker and agile DE's, you can see it when you look at some of his gameplay as well as how he did in the combine. He's just very athletic. Can he improve on his footwork, sure he can most of them could. I'm sure that will improve once they start working with Nfl coaches..



I am inclined to agree with you as what I saw of him live projects well to McAdoo's system. He gets to the second level quickly and is downright scary when he does. He is only 305 lbs but has the frame to pack on another 15 lbs. easy. And playing in the SEC don't hurt.

I am high on him in a tradeback scenario, but not at 9. Gotta start stacking picks like those damn Patriots (9) and Seahawks (11). Wow. What a coincidence that the Pats and Hawks who always seem to have a plethora of picks were in the SB.

Interesting.



Collins was 320 at his pro day.


Woot!! There it is......
Scherff edges out Collins  
Torrag : 3/30/2015 1:17 pm : link
Peat a distant third.

It's very close between the two top OL now but his elite agility and power base makes Scherff the better pro prospect imo. Very few to no college players are finished products when they hit reach the NFL. Scherff has the higher ceiling while still having a high floor.
RE: Scherff edges out Collins  
Coach Mason : 3/30/2015 1:35 pm : link
In comment 12210421 Torrag said:
Quote:
Peat a distant third.

It's very close between the two top OL now but his elite agility and power base makes Scherff the better pro prospect imo. Very few to no college players are finished products when they hit reach the NFL. Scherff has the higher ceiling while still having a high floor.


Agree that Scherff would seem to be the type from a measurable and agility standpoint the Giants would prefer.
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