So here we are watching the offseason unfold. Every day I watch the constant pessimism from Giants fans regarding how bad the 2015 roster is; and with vindication! The 2014 Giants finished 6-10, and I can tell you I had them finishing at least at .500 last season...
However, after reading what seems like thousands of threads of how much the 2015 New York Giants have more holes than a swiss cheese sandwich, I decided to compare the current roster as constructed to our Super Bowl winning team in 2011.
I realize most of you are educated football viewers and need not be reminded of a championship winning team a mere 4 seasons ago, however I think at this time of year its fun to just compare how much "better" that 2011 team was on paper...
Lets take a look:
(Please keep in mind the screenshot of the 2011 roster was taken from Pro-Football-Reference, and has some position inaccuracies, however has the general roster correct)
2011 STARTERS:
Now lets take a look at that vs the current (pre-draft/preseason) 2015 Roster:
QB: Eli Manning
RB: Rashad Jennings
WR: Odell Beckham Jr.
WR: Victor Cruz
WR: Rueben Randle
TE: Larry Donnell
LT: Will Beatty
LG: Geoff Schwartz
C: Weston Richburg
RG: Jon Jerry
RT: Justin Pugh
DE: George Selvie
DE: Jason Pierre Paul
DT: Jonathan Hankins
DT: Kenrick Ellis
LB: Jameel McClain
LB: Jon Beason
LB: Devon Kennard
CB: Prince Amukamara
CB: Dominique Rogers-Cromartie
S: Cooper Taylor
S: Nate Berhe
After comparing these two rosters of potential "starters", I think its safe to say that the talent level between the two rosters isn't absurd. Most fans will clamor at a few big names on the 2011 roster, but I would be the first to say that certain players on that team were not in their respective primes. I would even go as far to say that the 2011 team, depth included (which is not listed here) is substantially weaker than what is currently constructed with the 2015 Giants.
The big hole IMO is still safety. There is no depth, or a proven commodity there which obviously was a big factor in 2011. My gut tells me that between the draft and cuts that will occur in a couple months will certainly net the Giants talent that can get them by at that position.
This may not be the most detailed football post I have made, however I find it astounding how so many fans have incredibly short memories. I can honestly say that I feel better about this roster and coaching staff this upcoming season than I did the year we WON IT ALL!
So with that said..have at it!
Talent wise that remain healthy with Eli and Coughlin will gives ys a chance......but we must regain that winning mojo.
Instead of finding ways to win......we find ways to lose.
I hope Spags changes the attitude on defense which is our current priority,
I know we keep talking about the OL and Eli playing on his back......but that was not the problem. We know the OL needs another starter but even with what we had we were rank 10th on sacks against. Another year in system with OL gelling together......hopefully Cruz joining OBJ and Randle with Vereen........lead by a multi Super Bowl MVP......this offense can be dynamic
Pascoe vs. Hynoski vs. Hedgecock is debatable. MH was done by 2011, but he was still at the top of the depth chart.
Point is, you're looking at the 2011 team after the effects of injuries.
You run that season 100 times, the likely easy majority of outcomes leaves you with a team that finishes below .500 (and yes, thank god that one real outcome miraculously did not and they won an incredibly improbable title). Not anything close to a playoff contender.
Every year someone goes from 4-12 to 12-4. And the talent difference between the very best team in the NFL and the very worst really isn't all that great. Maybe the Giants can do something similar...maybe not. We're all football fans with opinions, but why not present yours as such instead of as fact.
Not just you here do this. But try to remember it's your opinion that you have to share. It isn't fact.
Go Giants!
You could run however many seasons (of a reasonable sample size) with a team exactly like that you want and you're not going to come out with positive results for them in most of them.
If that's the team we're now hoping for as best case or we're trying to cling to as a comp to, the results aren't likely going to be pretty this year either. That run, with the defense having a crazy hot streak after Eli (+ three WRs) kept them barely afloat for the first 14 games in a by far career best season, was pretty much a miracle and incredibly improbable.
2015 isn't 2011. No one can expect a late-season run like that. OTOH I'm hoping we'll be better than that team from the start.
I'm certainly not ready to say in March "nowhere near a playoff team" and I appologize if I missunderstood you.
You could run however many seasons (of a reasonable sample size) with a team exactly like that you want and you're not going to come out with positive results for them in most of them.
If that's the team we're now hoping for as best case or we're trying to cling to as a comp to, the results aren't likely going to be pretty this year either. That run, with the defense having a crazy hot streak after Eli (+ three WRs) kept them barely afloat for the first 14 games in a by far career best season, was pretty much a miracle and incredibly improbable.
Yep
Snee DD and McKenzie who were all pretty much in their prime were studs. Uninjured Baas was at least solid.
This OL cam not run block until proven otherwise and is a total unknown at this point.
A lot more question marks too. Now they may be filled and answered but way to premature to assume this team even gets to 500 right now
Not after a suspect 7-9 then a 6-10 season
There's still the draft, however, as currently constructed, this is an 8-8 team IMO.
So I think it's inaccurate to say they weren't a legitimately good team. They had two extended stretches - almost two months each - of playing like a viable title contender. But after losing Thomas and Goff (plus Amukamara, who could have helped a lot, for most of the year), they were a very fragile team - especially on defense. And most of the offensive line was playing on borrowed time - especially after Beatty went down.
Our OL now probably has more upside potential.
Our CBs are better on paper going in. We're much deeper at LB.
Lotsa water under the bridge since 2011. I don't think we have a similar team or will have a similar season.
But I still hope we have a good one. Memorable in its own right.
Go Giants!
But I'm sure you tell the story better than I can..
On defense, I think the 2011 team has a sizable advantage. Tuck vs Selvie is a huge difference. Combine this with Osi not even being listed, and the 2011 DL was a lot better. Hopefully we still get some valuable additions here, so there is hope. Safety is another huge difference. I'm not sure that any of our current safeties would have even made the 2011 team, certainly none would have started.
This years CBs appear better, but this is before injury. And the deficiency was really just with Ross. I think the LBs this year are better than 2011. But it's hard to know what we really have at LB, or what we'll have after injuries.
You can always be hopeful that we will be adding some players and hoping other players improve from what we have seen from them. But, at this stage I think it's hard to argue 2011 and 2015 are similar in talent.
The 2011 Giants won six straight winner-take-all games against opponents that ranged from decent (Jets, Cowboys, Falcons) to very, very good (Packers, Niners, Patriots). The streak was improbable enough in its own right. Considering the previous six weeks, it was basically inconceivable.
If you compare this year's team to the 6-10 team from last year, you see a very similar team. Again, I'd say 7-9 once you net out all the changes so far.
2014 Eli? Decent team, but not a contender.
2013 Eli? Say good night, Gracie.