for display only
Big Blue Interactive The Corner Forum  
Back to the Corner

Archived Thread

Disturbing HBO special on parents of young athletes

Montreal Man : 3/31/2015 1:35 pm
It's from the HBO series, "State of Play" and the episode is called "Trophy Kids." It's playing a lot this week.

It follows about four or five kids and their parents through a period of their lives. A lot of it will piss you off, at least it did me -- fathers yelling at their kids, another withholding praise until his daughter has accomplished certain goals, a crazy father hounding his son at his high school basketball games.

There's a panel discussion after with Todd Martinovich, who seems to have recovered from his drug use, although he looks skeletal. But he's very incisive and informative about his own experiences and offers intelligent comments about the entire issue.

One telling moment from him comes at the end, when the footballl father has handed his son terrible criticism. The kid walks out of the car and sits on a curb. The moderator, Peter Berg, asks Martinovich what he would tell the kid if he were there. A pause, and Marinovich said, "A hug."

Very emotional moment. I recommend the show highly.
Thanks MM  
RB^2 : 3/31/2015 1:47 pm : link
Will check it out. I'm a big believer that kids can handle a lot more pressure and stress and hence can achieve more than is commonly assumed but a lot of this just seems self-serving (and often truly mean-spirited) for the parents at great cost to their kids.
Good find - this should be nuts  
Giants2012 : 3/31/2015 1:53 pm : link
Parents are crazy now. Anybody who has coached or had kids in sports have seen it first hand. Not to mention, these AAU scams and "specializing" in one sport.

Sucks for kids  
Mark from Jersey : 3/31/2015 1:54 pm : link
So much pressure. Kids can't be kids anymore.
Mainly,  
Doomster : 3/31/2015 1:56 pm : link
parents living out their own dreams through their kids....can't blame themselves, so they take it out on the kid.....

Everyone is different.....some parents have gifted kids....and each child has their own unique calling and the way to achieve it....some thrive on being pushed to the limit.....many don't......

For some it's their only chance for making it big in the world, and maybe, initially that's the motivation for parents.....but eventually, they may get caught up in the hysteria of the "goal", and forget about the consequences of either not achieving it, or achieving it at what cost?
the specialization is something that really seems awful  
Greg from LI : 3/31/2015 2:02 pm : link
Forcing a child to only play one sport year-round starting when they're in middle school? No wonder so many kids get burned out.
RE: Good find - this should be nuts  
BillT : 3/31/2015 2:06 pm : link
In comment 12211874 Giants2012 said:
Quote:
Parents are crazy now. Anybody who has coached or had kids in sports have seen it first hand. Not to mention, these AAU scams and "specializing" in one sport.


Ran into the "specializing" with my niece. she's a good athlete but wouldn't try out for her HS field hockey team because it was full of girls who had specialized in field hockey. Specialized in HS field hockey?!?! Are you kidding?
BillT  
RB^2 : 3/31/2015 2:10 pm : link
A lot of that is driven by the goal of obtaining an athletic scholarship to a university so the phenomenon exists pretty extensively in the more "obscure" sports as well.
RE: BillT  
Greg from LI : 3/31/2015 2:15 pm : link
In comment 12211895 RB^2 said:
Quote:
A lot of that is driven by the goal of obtaining an athletic scholarship to a university so the phenomenon exists pretty extensively in the more "obscure" sports as well.


And so much of that is naive (or stupid) parents being sold a bill of goods by the people who run camps and traveling teams. Spend a shitload of money on our services and your kid can get a scholarship! Only problem is that most of these kids won't have the innate talent to pull a scholarship, so they might have well just lit their money on fire.
Yeah  
BillT : 3/31/2015 2:18 pm : link
Glad I missed all of that. Loved playing whatever was in season. And I wasn't getting a scholarship no matter what I did. (Unless they had church league scholarships!)
I have to admit guilt here...  
That’s Gold, Jerry : 3/31/2015 2:19 pm : link
when my oldest son was playing minor hockey here in Ottawa I was what we call "a bad hockey dad" early on. I would yell at referees in particular and got caught up in some of the politics of minor hockey that go on.

I was very bad but, fortunately, got better as my son got older. Things never got horribly bad but could have gone that way and certainly I have witnessed things where parents from one team get into fights with parents from the other team. Matter of fact, there was a story on our local news just the other day about two incidents. One was with regard to a local guy who goes to rinks simply for the purpose of yelling at coaches, referees and players. They have tried to have him banned from local arenas but because it is a public arena they can't do it. The other involved a junior hockey team's playoffs where the home team's parents were yelling, cursing and throwing things at the visiting team. Police had to be called and so forth.

Never got that bad for me but certainly it can get bad for a lot of folks. Not pleasant to admit it but, fortunately, I have learned my lesson. When I go to watch my step-grandson's games, I keep my big mouth shut.
RE: the specialization is something that really seems awful  
RC02XX : 3/31/2015 2:21 pm : link
In comment 12211886 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
Forcing a child to only play one sport year-round starting when they're in middle school? No wonder so many kids get burned out.


Remember when I talked about lacrosse here in Maryland? That's what I've been seeing.

But what impact is this having on the kids beyond the physical aspects? Are these parents creating mirrored versions of themselves in their children, who will keep the cycle going with their own kids in the future?
dealing with insane parents is why my dad quit coaching  
Greg from LI : 3/31/2015 2:24 pm : link
He was always my Little League coach, and when my sister started playing softball, he coached her teams too. There were always a few problem parents when I played, but only a handful. In the time between me and my sister, though (we're eight years apart), it got much, much worse. You had loons losing their mind about losses, or why there were no signals, or why my dad let so-and-so pitch when she's no good because it's costing the team games!

This was for eight-year old girls softball. That was the breaking point for dad.
I've heard that about lacrosse, Ronnie  
Greg from LI : 3/31/2015 2:26 pm : link
I'm not a big lacrosse fan but I follow the Virginia lax team a bit. From reading the lacrosse board at the UVA site I frequent, apparently it's customary now in lacrosse to commit to a D-I program as a FRESHMAN. The big programs start recruiting these kids while they're still in middle school. It's nuts. How the hell can you ask a kid to make a major life decision like that at age 14?
The specialization...  
FatMan in Charlotte : 3/31/2015 2:27 pm : link
isn't just driven by the parents though.

For a lot of the sports in my area, especially baseball and lacrosse, if you don't get on a travel team or a fulltime team then you are on the outside looking in for playing at the high school level.

Now, that isn't to say that if some kid with a lot of talent shows up and goes out for the team without having that history, that he won't make it, but it does apply to the vast majority kids in the middle.
The influence of the travel teams is a problem. Many parents get  
Victor in CT : 3/31/2015 2:37 pm : link
sucked in and spend ridiculous money to say that their kid played on a travel team, only the kid doesn't play. And the coaching isn't all that great. Many (Bobby Vs is one) teach every kid the same method and style without regard to individual build, skill, body type. I managed Babe Ruth for the last 3 years. You have to deal with the "my son trained with so and so so he should play" bullshit constantly. My advice would be play locally if you have a local program, the kid's love playing against the guys they have grown up playing against. And play to your level. It's better to play on a "B" team than sit on a so called "A" team.
I saw this special a year or so ago when it came out  
Stu11 : 3/31/2015 2:41 pm : link
it was chilling, especially the scene in the car with the football dad. That guy is a lunatic and he fully deserves right now to have nothing to do with his son thankfully that's the case. You could see it when the kid was on the field, he was petrified to do anything wrong the game was pure torture for him and that is the worst thing you can do for your child. As I've mentioned on here a lot I have refereed high school ball for years and that moronic basketball dad on the show I've seen his type in the stands for years. officiating the game from his seat. If you gave that guy a whistle and put him on the court in the middle of an intense high school game he'd be running out of the gym crying like a baby within 5 minutes.

Any way I got to coaching my daughter's 9-10 year old basketball team this season. I usually don't have the time working full time, going to grad classes and reffing. Well the coach obviously had not the faintest clue of how to even teach basic skills or positioning. So I offered to help and as the season wore on he was more comfortable letting me take over. I was mainly just trying to teach them positioning and defense. Wasn't running plays or anything as they couldn't grasp it. I got really into it never yelling at the girls or refs(I work with them) and lo and behold we got hot and made the championship when I thought we'd have a hard time winning 2 games. Well my daughter is ok nothing great, but she loves the game so I try and teach her what I can but she doesn't always get it. in the last game she was having a tough time guarding her girl and got beat and she was sort of zoning out on the court. I started to have my temperature rise and motioned her over during a free throw really feeling like I was about to give it to her good in front of everyone. Well thank good she was far enough away for me to give me time to look at myself and catch my breath and realize what I was about to do and what an idiot I was about to be. I took a breath put my arm around her and calmly explained what she need to do gave her a kiss on the head and sent her back out. Any parent who handles it any other way especially when they are that young is a pure jackass who shouldn't be aloud in the gym.
there is an AAU Basketball program  
Peter from NH (formerly CT) : 3/31/2015 2:45 pm : link
and a travel lacrosse program here in NH and in Southern Maine (2 different ones) where the coaches guarantee that the kid will get a college scholarship. $5 K a year and never ending weekends. A local kid was selected to play - the coach told her parents she was a "special athlete" and the kid was not better than the third best player on an average to below average middle school team. These are girls programs.

A lot of people are desperate to find scholarship money or simply a college hook to get in.
FMIC is right  
Bake54 : 3/31/2015 2:50 pm : link
if the kid is not doing baseball related activities 10 months out of the year, then the overwhelming majority of kids won't be good enough at the HS level.

Here's the schedule

March, April, May
school ball

May, June, July
AAU/Legion ball

August
off/private lessons

Sept,Oct
fall ball

November
off/private lessons

Dec, Jan, Feb
indoor training/weightlifting/private lessons
I wasn't blessed with boys  
mrvax : 3/31/2015 2:55 pm : link
but one of my girls was into softball when she was 12&13. I did the assistant coach thing for 2 years.

I did bear in mind the pressure some parents place on thier kids. I would teach my daughter and the other girls how to improve but stressed to each one that the most important thing about sports is to have fun.

Surprisingly, quite a few parents agreed with me. We had one good winning year followed by a shitty season. (It all depends on having a few bigger girls play or not on the team.)
I'm worried about what we've gotten my older son into  
lawguy9801 : 3/31/2015 3:02 pm : link
He just turned 8 and is in 2nd grade. He is on a developmental travel soccer team that practices twice a week, plus one or two games each weekend. There was a bit of a lull over the winter, but that schedule is pretty much ready to resume. He is also on our town lacrosse team, which is about to go to two practices a week plus a weekend game. And then, in mid-late May, after town lacrosse ends, club lacrosse starts, with 2-3 practices a week and four weekend tournaments between late May and July. So, basically, beginning after Easter, he'll have some sort of practice 4 out of 5 days during the week, and games both weekend days (sometimes multiple on the same day), through pretty much the rest of the school year.

I'm worried we've way "overbooked" him. This our first time going through all this, so we're learning as well. We have to see how he reacts to everything, but if he needs to skip practices now and then to take a break, then I'm all for it. On the other hand, if he didn't do anything and was home, he'd be begging to play video games, fighting with his brother and/or otherwise making his mom crazy, so maybe he needs to be tired out a bit. :)
RE: RE: Good find - this should be nuts  
Bramton1 : 3/31/2015 3:03 pm : link
In comment 12211891 BillT said:
Quote:
In comment 12211874 Giants2012 said:


Quote:


Parents are crazy now. Anybody who has coached or had kids in sports have seen it first hand. Not to mention, these AAU scams and "specializing" in one sport.




Ran into the "specializing" with my niece. she's a good athlete but wouldn't try out for her HS field hockey team because it was full of girls who had specialized in field hockey. Specialized in HS field hockey?!?! Are you kidding?


If you think you intend to play field hockey in college, I would think playing year round in high school wouldn't be crazy. Now middle school? Probably? Elementary school (I have a friend who's third grade son plays on an AAU baseball team)? Definitely.
RE: FMIC is right  
Giants2012 : 3/31/2015 3:04 pm : link
In comment 12211949 Bake54 said:
Quote:
if the kid is not doing baseball related activities 10 months out of the year, then the overwhelming majority of kids won't be good enough at the HS level.


Maybe the training is the difference between the mediocre dedicated player and the mediocre non-dedicated player yet, from my vantage point, the better player is simply the better player. Some have gifts with the bat, their arm, the glove the feel of fielding or going back on a ball, etc. Some have it and those gift supersede the medicine player who trains year round.
Mediocre not medicine  
Giants2012 : 3/31/2015 3:05 pm : link
Spell check (roll eyes)

Good topic though
Yep Mr. Vax I've coached my daughter's softball team with the same  
Stu11 : 3/31/2015 3:06 pm : link
guys for 4 years now and its a blast. The parents are great and we took our lumps some years, and last year mid-season the girls really got it and took off and we won the championship and it was one of the funnest things i was ever part of. I don't know why a lot of parents just can't enjoy the excitement and just settle for being proud of their kids.
guess what ?  
mdc1 : 3/31/2015 3:06 pm : link
You can shut it down and make your kid focus on academics, you do have a choice and so does your child in terms of priorities.

If you don't do it, the government is waiting to tell you what to do...doubt that you want that.
While I'm all for perseverance and sticking it out when it gets rough,  
RC02XX : 3/31/2015 3:10 pm : link
I'm also in the mindset that if my kids aren't enjoying the sports that they're playing, then they don't have to play.

Now when it comes to academics, I be like...

This should be true..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 3/31/2015 3:20 pm : link
Quote:
Maybe the training is the difference between the mediocre dedicated player and the mediocre non-dedicated player yet, from my vantage point, the better player is simply the better player.


But it often comes down to politics. My son is a decent player. Certainly will be good enough to play HS lacrosse, but the travel team coach will be the HS coach. If he has to choose between two kids of relatively the same talent level and one has played travel lacrosse and helped fund the coach's organization, I've seen time and again where it happens that the kid who has been playing gets picked.

This isn't really a new phenomenon with politics though. I was a really good youth baseball player, but was cut during JV tryouts my freshman year because the coach was the football coach and he took kids from the football team.

That summer, I pitched a perfect game in Babe ruth and the coach told me to come out for the team the following year. I told him I went out last year and was cut and he said, "We'll make sure that doesn't happen again". I went on to play Varsity for three years and played in college, too.
RE: I'm worried about what we've gotten my older son into  
BeerFridge : 3/31/2015 3:33 pm : link
In comment 12211963 lawguy9801 said:
Quote:
He just turned 8 and is in 2nd grade. He is on a developmental travel soccer team that practices twice a week, plus one or two games each weekend. There was a bit of a lull over the winter, but that schedule is pretty much ready to resume. He is also on our town lacrosse team, which is about to go to two practices a week plus a weekend game. And then, in mid-late May, after town lacrosse ends, club lacrosse starts, with 2-3 practices a week and four weekend tournaments between late May and July. So, basically, beginning after Easter, he'll have some sort of practice 4 out of 5 days during the week, and games both weekend days (sometimes multiple on the same day), through pretty much the rest of the school year.

I'm worried we've way "overbooked" him. This our first time going through all this, so we're learning as well. We have to see how he reacts to everything, but if he needs to skip practices now and then to take a break, then I'm all for it. On the other hand, if he didn't do anything and was home, he'd be begging to play video games, fighting with his brother and/or otherwise making his mom crazy, so maybe he needs to be tired out a bit. :)



I think you'd probably see signs of burnout. My daughter does a very competitive signing choir. They practice three nights a week for 2.5 hrs and then perform on weekends including tours around the country. She loves it so much that she's always excited and happy to go to rehearsal. And she knows that she has to keep up her schoolwork outside of that or that is over. If it wasn't her favorite thing to do, we wouldn't make the family commitment to drag her all over the place to rehearsal and performances, etc. But she loves it so much that we never wonder if we are giving her too much to do.

If she didn't want to and didn't have fun, I would scale her back for sure. I expect you'll see your son have the same reaction if he's not really enjoying it and it feels like a job to him.

The main cost for her is that I think she's a kid who excels with loads going on and time management challenges. And when there's nothing to do she is a bit lost. She eventually figures it out but there's that adjustment period when she shifts gears.
Even without parents that yell and scream  
SomeFan : 3/31/2015 4:47 pm : link
there are too many helicopter parents (I think they are called that) who go to every game, every practice, every event regardless of import. I know many like that in my town. My cousin's husband is like that; it is a bit annoying to say the least. It used to be that parents would go to the games but only on occasion.

Also, I don't believe the constant play is needed to be a good baseball player or lacrosse player. The exclusion from high school playing if you're not on a club team seems like it is politically, rather than ability, driven.
RE: Even without parents that yell and scream  
Randy in CT : 3/31/2015 4:51 pm : link
In comment 12212127 SomeFan said:
Quote:
there are too many helicopter parents (I think they are called that) who go to every game, every practice, every event regardless of import. I know many like that in my town. My cousin's husband is like that; it is a bit annoying to say the least. It used to be that parents would go to the games but only on occasion.

Also, I don't believe the constant play is needed to be a good baseball player or lacrosse player. The exclusion from high school playing if you're not on a club team seems like it is politically, rather than ability, driven.
So, your suggestion is that parents should go to less events? Even if their input is positive?

This discussion is about parents who are over-the-top, mostly with negative input. You see how that it is completely different than being supportive, yes?
RE: The influence of the travel teams is a problem. Many parents get  
ct.fatboy1080 : 3/31/2015 5:23 pm : link
In comment 12211931 Victor in CT said:
Quote:
sucked in and spend ridiculous money to say that their kid played on a travel team, only the kid doesn't play. And the coaching isn't all that great. Many (Bobby Vs is one) teach every kid the same method and style without regard to individual build, skill, body type. I managed Babe Ruth for the last 3 years. You have to deal with the "my son trained with so and so so he should play" bullshit constantly. My advice would be play locally if you have a local program, the kid's love playing against the guys they have grown up playing against. And play to your level. It's better to play on a "B" team than sit on a so called "A" team.


Don't know where in ct you are, you have good points. Where we live in north central ct there really are no competitive leagues left.As the FMIC said if your not doing travel probably not going to see much of the field in high school. I think the whole system has moved,.. little league is dying here. my son is a couple months short of 15. we have been doing travel for 5 years..luckily we found a good organization with good realistic parents/kids. he plays very competitively, but very few think they are headed for D1 or worse MLB.
RE: FMIC is right  
ct.fatboy1080 : 3/31/2015 5:29 pm : link
In comment 12211949 Bake54 said:
Quote:
if the kid is not doing baseball related activities 10 months out of the year, then the overwhelming majority of kids won't be good enough at the HS level.

Here's the schedule

March, April, May
school ball

May, June, July
AAU/Legion ball

August
off/private lessons

Sept,Oct
fall ball

November
off/private lessons

Dec, Jan, Feb
indoor training/weightlifting/private lessons


even Legion Ball in my area suffers to "club" teams. we really have no other choice.
In my LI town and across LI from what I hear  
lawguy9801 : 3/31/2015 5:59 pm : link
between lacrosse and travel baseball, Little League is dying a slow death. A shame.
I don't know if it is positive  
SomeFan : 3/31/2015 6:30 pm : link
to be constantly watching
Both of my boys played travel lacrosse from 7th grade on  
oghwga : 3/31/2015 6:34 pm : link
We traveled up to 5 hours on some weekends. I had no illusions of them playing in college, but we always had a great group of families and I got to hang out with my kids and their friends and families all summer and part of the fall every year. Hanging in a hotel with an open bar for 3 days with all of your buddies and their kids is not always a bad thing.

Always a good time but I did see plenty of lunatics.
Generally, if they are constantly watching  
SomeFan : 3/31/2015 6:39 pm : link
I bet they are constantly critiquing. In any case, I think kids need to do some things on their own and on their own terms without the parent being right at hand and watching 24/7.
RE: I don't know if it is positive  
Watson : 3/31/2015 6:41 pm : link
In comment 12212230 SomeFan said:
Quote:
to be constantly watching


I think it depends on the kid. I could see where some kids might be nervous if you watch the practices. My son loved it when I stayed to watch and was disappointed if I missed a game. I don't think one is right or wrong, just take your cue from your child.
Yes  
SomeFan : 3/31/2015 6:50 pm : link
that makes complete sense. It does depend on the kid and the parent being aware of its impact; I doubt some would change even if it were negative.
Thanks MM  
Maximus, Esq. : 3/31/2015 7:28 pm : link
Will check it out tonight
I feel like this is not just sports though.  
AnishPatel : 3/31/2015 7:50 pm : link
On tv, I could have sworn they had one for very smart kids and how they progress such as spelling Bees and such. I think they had one for parents whose kids play intruments and want their kids to excel in that area.

RE: I feel like this is not just sports though.  
Watson : 3/31/2015 9:12 pm : link
In comment 12212276 AnishPatel said:
Quote:
On tv, I could have sworn they had one for very smart kids and how they progress such as spelling Bees and such. I think they had one for parents whose kids play intruments and want their kids to excel in that area.


I agree. Imo the "Bad Sports" parent is part of a larger problem. Things getting to competitive way to early. Parents wanting the best for their children and losing sight of what's the appropriate way to be encouraging & supportive. With sports it's in a public area and therefore more noticeable.

That said, my son played numerous sports & was on various traveling teams, it was what he wanted to do. I only recall one father having an issue. He wasn't a bad guy; just to emotionally involved. The coach handled it really well. The Dad worked on it. I suspect it improved his entire relationship with his son.
The parents were difficult  
RetroJint : 3/31/2015 9:22 pm : link
20 years ago. They are impossible now. A kid can play 2 sports in school. As long as the kid is having fun burnout should not be a factor. I do not think that a school coach should also be an AAU or summer coach. Overall, training methods have improved. But over-training can be a factor. It is a balancing act. But with parents shelling out major dollars, too many of them think the price guarantees their kid a meaningful role on a competitive team. It doesn't work that way. Sports comprise an unforgiving competitive hierarchy. There are winners; inevitably there must be losers. But these remain games. As coaches, we must be fair. Teach appropriate values beginning with the primacy of team. Cuts, discipline, getting on the wrong side of a connected, wealthy parent-if you cannot deal with it, get out.

Saddest situation I encountered: Dad was a great player & his son cannot play. Not for lack of effort, bad attitude-stuff like that. He just can't play. I would get him as a prayer shot.
My next-door neighbor's an ex minor league baseball player ...  
Manny in CA : 3/31/2015 10:27 pm : link
His son is 13, they've had a batting cage in the back yard since the boy was 8. Not a problem, except the attitude that his coaches display (not his dad, who is actually other-wise, a good father).

When the cage first went up, I gave the boy a thumbs-up and an approving nod. One of the ass-hole adults tried to "lecture" me about gawking and asked me if I was learning anything.

The boy's dad is not home very much, (I think mom & dad are "kind-of"separated). The team is over often practicing; their "coaches" can always be heard humiliating the kids.

Does it work ? - yes, they won the California Club Baseball title last year. What price, victory ?




Teen volleyball player takes her dispute to another kind of court  
RC02XX : 4/2/2015 2:25 pm : link
Quote:
When Audrey Dimitrew won a spot on a club volleyball team in Chantilly, Va., the 16-year-old hoped to impress varsity coaches and possibly college coaches.

But when her coach benched her and the league told her she couldn’t join another team, the action shifted from one court to another — she and her family sued.

Audrey said she could miss a pivotal season this spring and thinks that a large, controlling league has lost sight of its primary mission: encouraging kids to play sports. The league has said that Audrey is disgruntled with her playing time and that transferring her to another team would create a flood of similar requests.

“It would be really heartbreaking not to play,” Audrey said. “I would be losing a big part of my life.”

The lawsuit is one of a number filed across the country in recent years as families have increasingly turned to the courts to intervene in youth sports disputes. Parents upset that their children have been cut, benched, yelled at by coaches or even fouled too hard are asking judges to referee.

Some experts see such lawsuits as part of a shift in youth sports in recent decades away from sandlot play and intramural teams to professionalized leagues and tryout teams partly aimed at snagging scholarships for players and giving them a leg up in college admissions.

Link - ( New Window )
remember watching my 10 year old nephew at  
bc4life : 4/3/2015 6:44 am : link
wrestling meets. remember a parent or having kids at that age suck weight in order to wrestle. parents are sometimes the worst part of youth sports.
Back to the Corner