Because the Giants' makeshift OL, decimated by injury, was better at pass protection than Dallas' vaunted "best OL in the league."
Very true. However, Eli was able to scramble out of a lot of situations and thankfully he didn't play in Gilbride's offense last year. The Giants Oline was not able to sustain blocks. They were about useless as far as blocking for the running game.
This year will be a much easier transition, knowing that we have been through so much of it already. It’s definitely a different starting point. I feel good about it. I feel that I have a good understanding of it, but there is still room to grow and that is why I try to keep it as fresh in my mind as possible. Looking at old game-plan sheets and calling plays in my head – throwing routes with receivers trying to call out plays to myself, so you don’t let it slip away. It was new last year and it wasn’t something I have been doing for 10 years, so you want to keep it fresh and go through your reminders and all your checks. So when we come back I haven’t taken a step backwards and have to re-learn things. It is still all there. There will be new stuff and we will be taking it to another level.”
Because the Giants' makeshift OL, decimated by injury, was better at pass protection than Dallas' vaunted "best OL in the league."
I don't know what Dallas' OL has to do with ours. But how was our line good at pass protection? I'm aware Eli wasn't sacked a ridiculous amount of times but I do recall him getting smacked around quite a bit after the ball was thrown. I also recall our RB's getting stoned at the line of scrimmage. Thats all I'm alluding to.
A consistent run Game especially short yardage ,
losing 2-3 yards on 1st down and not converting 3rd
and short . We have to Upgrade the Guard position
1st or 2nd round . I don't think there is anything
left free agent wise .
In 10 and 7/16ths seasons Eli has been sacked 280 times or 26.8 times per year on average. Last year 28 times. Yet if you read BBI we lost 10 games last year because Eli was constantly getting pummeled. Sometimes I wonder if people on this site even watch the games.
RE: RE: RE: Primed to get the snot beat out of him Â
Because the Giants' makeshift OL, decimated by injury, was better at pass protection than Dallas' vaunted "best OL in the league."
I don't know what Dallas' OL has to do with ours. But how was our line good at pass protection? I'm aware Eli wasn't sacked a ridiculous amount of times but I do recall him getting smacked around quite a bit after the ball was thrown. I also recall our RB's getting stoned at the line of scrimmage. Thats all I'm alluding to.
Yeah because Eli is more mobile that Tony Romo.
Look the Giants Oline was just plain awful in run blocking but pretty decent in pass pro. Every QB gets smacked.
why don't you find proof of your assertion that the Giants ranked in the bottom half of the league in pass protection. Since you are the one making the claim, I feel the burden of proof is on you
players to death but Eli can make this team great, or bad. With him healthy in year 2 of McAdoo's system, with Beckham and Cruz back, he's in position to have a big year.
I thought he touched on the biggest improvement the Offense made: Vereen. Our hurry-up wasn't nearly as good as we're accustomed and that's one of the best parts of Eli's game. We couldn't score at the end of halves and games, when the outcome was in the balance.
Vereen is a huge help in that key situation.
I think the OL got back to at least respectability... Â
why don't you find proof of your assertion that the Giants ranked in the bottom half of the league in pass protection. Since you are the one making the claim, I feel the burden of proof is on you
Don't worry Curtis. I've already proven that you just made that shit up.
Our pass protection was not as bad as some would have you believe Â
2013, but was also significantly aided by Eli getting the ball out very quickly and still wasn't much better than mediocre -- PFF, grain of salt and all, had them as 13th in pass pro (Dallas was fourth best).
Also, to quote FootballOutsiders on sacks:
Quote:
The sack is almost like a litmus test for where a fan is in their understanding of the game. Usually you start out thinking it's all about the offensive line and protection, but the sack is actually very dependent on the quarterback. To put it another way, sack avoidance is a great quarterback skill.
Quote:
Mobility is one of the most overrated attributes for a quarterback when it comes to avoiding sacks. The signal callers with excellent footwork in the pocket, capable of quickly identifying a target and releasing are the best at avoiding sacks. It doesn't matter that they couldn't break five seconds in a 40-yard dash. History has shown most of the highly sacked quarterbacks were mobile guys unwilling to give up on the play.
RE: The Giants pass blocking last season was significantly improved from Â
2013, but was also significantly aided by Eli getting the ball out very quickly and still wasn't much better than mediocre -- PFF, grain of salt and all, had them as 13th in pass pro (Dallas was fourth best).
Also, to quote FootballOutsiders on sacks:
Quote:
The sack is almost like a litmus test for where a fan is in their understanding of the game. Usually you start out thinking it's all about the offensive line and protection, but the sack is actually very dependent on the quarterback. To put it another way, sack avoidance is a great quarterback skill.
Quote:
Mobility is one of the most overrated attributes for a quarterback when it comes to avoiding sacks. The signal callers with excellent footwork in the pocket, capable of quickly identifying a target and releasing are the best at avoiding sacks. It doesn't matter that they couldn't break five seconds in a 40-yard dash. History has shown most of the highly sacked quarterbacks were mobile guys unwilling to give up on the play.
could see that the Giants OL wasn't better at anything than the Dallas OL except losing. Anyone who watched the two Giants vs. Dallas games and thought Eli had better pass protection than Romo is blinder and deader than Ray Charles.
could see that the Giants OL wasn't better at anything than the Dallas OL except losing. Anyone who watched the two Giants vs. Dallas games and thought Eli had better pass protection than Romo is blinder and deader than Ray Charles.
Giants gave up less sacks than Dallas. Not stating they're better - just disapproving your rhetoric.
Again, the problem is that they struggled with their run blocking.
has PFF indicated even as an asterisk, what a tremendous beating Romo took last year despite their vaunted OL? I'm talking about hits after release in addition to sacks..
could see that the Giants OL wasn't better at anything than the Dallas OL except losing. Anyone who watched the two Giants vs. Dallas games and thought Eli had better pass protection than Romo is blinder and deader than Ray Charles.
Giants gave up less sacks than Dallas. Not stating they're better - just disapproving your rhetoric.
Again, the problem is that they struggled with their run blocking.
They were 9th in the league in terms of sacks per game allowed at 1.9.
Also 9th in sack percentage.
All vast improvements from 2013.
They were 22nd in run blocking - IMO, the major issue facing this offense moving forward.
C'mon B, don't shatter the illusion. These guys seem to enjoy the myth of horrible pass protection ...Eli can't throw lying on his back ... Eli's going to get killed, etc. Should we improve the O-line? Absolutely. Do I want to see some help there from the draft? Absolutely. And I especially would like to see improvement in the run blocking. But with changes to the O-line that we already know are coming, and the addition of Vereen, I'm not obsessing over the O-line.
RE: RE: there were only 8 teams ahead of the Giants Â
They were 9th in the league in terms of sacks per game allowed at 1.9.
Also 9th in sack percentage.
All vast improvements from 2013.
They were 22nd in run blocking - IMO, the major issue facing this offense moving forward.
C'mon B, don't shatter the illusion. These guys seem to enjoy the myth of horrible pass protection ...Eli can't throw lying on his back ... Eli's going to get killed, etc. Should we improve the O-line? Absolutely. Do I want to see some help there from the draft? Absolutely. And I especially would like to see improvement in the run blocking. But with changes to the O-line that we already know are coming, and the addition of Vereen, I'm not obsessing over the O-line.
There's a ridiculously pervasive thought perpetuated by the BBI Mouthbreathers Society that the OLine was worse than it actually was. They certainly weren't great - but to hear some people just spout out what they believe to be "fact" with little to no understanding of offensive line play or what actually happened over 16 games becomes almost an addiction with people. It's very odd.
I agree with your thoughts on addressing the oline - no doubt they need some help and some depth. But the Chicken Little act believed by so many here is played out at this point.
could see that the Giants OL wasn't better at anything than the Dallas OL except losing. Anyone who watched the two Giants vs. Dallas games and thought Eli had better pass protection than Romo is blinder and deader than Ray Charles.
But wait, I thought that was because of our "horrible" defensive line and Coordinator. Btw the way, the sack totals for the two dallas games are 4 to 2 in favor of the cowboys. Our horrible offensive line which averaged a bit less than two sacks allowed per game actually gave up a little bit more than average against the cowboys. Interesting
but that's 4 sacks to 2 in the Giants favor. That poor pass blocking offensive line only allowed two sacks in two games. It gave Eli Manning enough time to pass for 596 yards, six touchdowns and only one interception in those two games.
And before you guys go there, the first game against Dallas occurred in week seven before the Beckham show really got started. Odell stats in the first game was 4 catches for 34 yards. While he did account for two touchdowns, Eli somehow managed to get 210 yards to the other receivers despite the "poor" pass blocking line. Also remember that both Cruz and Jennings were injured that week.
Eli truly seems excited for the up coming year....... Â
Sucked last year even before the Cruz injury and except for the three wins in the last five games against very bad teams they would have won maybe 3-4 games. The defense sucked also but everyone only now calls the defense a big problem how strange. If you are not worried about every player on this team except maybe one then God help you. I would love for all of our players to just go out and play good ball and quit talking like stars. You won six games right now you should be so humble that the world should not even know that you exist.
see being discussed. How much will McAdoo performance improve this year? I mean, it wasn't just Eli's first year in the system, it was McAdoo's first year as an Offensive Coordinator. There had to be some trial and error mistakes made that we don't know about that hopefully will be better this year.
I'm not just talking about play-calling but also designing plays, teaching the plays, uses of personnel and formations, exploiting mismatches and covering weaknesses, avoiding tenancies, etc...
You're disproving nothing. There is nothing more meaningless than NFL ranking stats. They have no context and no correlation to how games play out. The Giants couldn't run the ball and they couldn't pass protect for more than a few seconds. The OL was worse than 2013 the difference was the OC didn't insist on having his QB hold the ball waiting for complicated route trees to play out. If he did Eli would have led the league in INT's again because his line can't run or pass block.
and how much of a homer to you have to be to compare the 2014 Giants OL to the Cowboys 2014 OL. The Cowboys had 2 first team All Pro's and 1 second team All Pro. Not the meaningless Pro Bowl. 3 All Pro's. The Giants had John Jerry, JD Walton, Pugh & Richburg all way below average. How is this even a discussion?
you made this statement..."the Giants OL wasn't better at anything than the Dallas OL except losing."
When in actuality they were better at PassPro according to the numbers.
Know how many PA's Manning had last year? 601
How about Romo? 435
That's a difference of 166 PA's or over 10 a game.
Yet the Giants protected their QB better than Dallas despite more opportunities for the defense to sack the QB. Again, the Cowboys gave up more sacks than the Giants despite 166 less Passing Attempts over the course of 16 games.
and how much of a homer to you have to be to compare the 2014 Giants OL to the Cowboys 2014 OL. The Cowboys had 2 first team All Pro's and 1 second team All Pro. Not the meaningless Pro Bowl. 3 All Pro's. The Giants had John Jerry, JD Walton, Pugh & Richburg all way below average. How is this even a discussion?
It's a discussion becasue All Pros and Pro Bowls are about the individual - not the unit.
You made a blanket statement that has been proven wrong - admit it and move on.
You believe the Giants OL was better at pass protecting than the Dallas OL in 2014. Please confirm so I can add you to scroll past list on any football thread.
that shows Eli's average time to throw the ball compared to other QB's in the league. I bet it was horrible.
That would be hard to measure because a lot of plays were designed to get the ball out quickly. That would cause defenders to hold up and consider reversing direction.
If you could only measure play where Eli dropped back X number of steps...
i've forgotten more than you'll ever know about football - so stop it. Most know me here and my credentials - you obviously have no clue. The last thing i aim to do on BBI at this point is argue with the mouthbreathers. Carry on.
I'm of the opinion that while sack numbers were decent that doesn't tell the story. The ball got out very fast which shielded the lines inability to sustain blocks. Eli was consistently moved off his 'spot' in the pocket. The interior line from Guard to Guard especially the right side was unable to maintain the 'bubble' of the pocket. It's a testament to Eli's pocket awareness/improvisation and Macs quick hit offense the passing stats they produced.
As far as run blocking they were dysfunctional. Stacked and stymied all season. Short yardage was an embarrassment. 3.6 YPC was among the worst in the league.
why don't you find proof of your assertion that the Giants ranked in the bottom half of the league in pass protection. Since you are the one making the claim, I feel the burden of proof is on you
Don't worry Curtis. I've already proven that you just made that shit up.
Well good lookin out B. :) Haha, I have to admit I'm surprised.
Romo holds onto the ball much longer, trying to escapre, and make plays. Therefore he gets sacked more. Same with Rodgers.
Eli gets the ball out quickly and sometimes forces throws to avoid sacks. So while he may not get sacked a lot, it doesnt mean he isnt getting pressured/hit. Unfortunately it leads to a higher number of INTs.
So Rodgers/Romo hold the ball and get sacked but they dont throw INTs.
Eli's pass protection was not very good last year. I credit McAdoo for setting up an offense for getting the ball away quickly.
my apologies - shouldn't have sounded so abrupt. My fault.
And of course the fact that the ball got out quicker was a factor - as was the inability of the oline to run block effectively - causing the offense to pass more.
We're just asserting that the PP was better than average and the RB was pretty poor.
Because the Giants' makeshift OL, decimated by injury, was better at pass protection than Dallas' vaunted "best OL in the league."
Because the Giants' makeshift OL, decimated by injury, was better at pass protection than Dallas' vaunted "best OL in the league."
Very true. However, Eli was able to scramble out of a lot of situations and thankfully he didn't play in Gilbride's offense last year. The Giants Oline was not able to sustain blocks. They were about useless as far as blocking for the running game.
Quote:
.
Because the Giants' makeshift OL, decimated by injury, was better at pass protection than Dallas' vaunted "best OL in the league."
I don't know what Dallas' OL has to do with ours. But how was our line good at pass protection? I'm aware Eli wasn't sacked a ridiculous amount of times but I do recall him getting smacked around quite a bit after the ball was thrown. I also recall our RB's getting stoned at the line of scrimmage. Thats all I'm alluding to.
losing 2-3 yards on 1st down and not converting 3rd
and short . We have to Upgrade the Guard position
1st or 2nd round . I don't think there is anything
left free agent wise .
Quote:
In comment 12211985 Curtis in VA said:
Quote:
.
Because the Giants' makeshift OL, decimated by injury, was better at pass protection than Dallas' vaunted "best OL in the league."
I don't know what Dallas' OL has to do with ours. But how was our line good at pass protection? I'm aware Eli wasn't sacked a ridiculous amount of times but I do recall him getting smacked around quite a bit after the ball was thrown. I also recall our RB's getting stoned at the line of scrimmage. Thats all I'm alluding to.
Yeah because Eli is more mobile that Tony Romo.
Look the Giants Oline was just plain awful in run blocking but pretty decent in pass pro. Every QB gets smacked.
However, I will say the OL benefited from the style of offense (quick passes, WR screens, dump offs, etc). But they did get better.
The running game......pretty much stacked up all year.
A healthy Schwartz and a road grating guard could really turn things around in a hurry...........
Eli Manning Talks About Upcoming Season
Eli Manning Talks About Upcoming Season - ( New Window )
Curtis, what are you using as your measuring stat?
I would have put them middle of the pack, just by the eyeball test. Middle of the pack is a big improvement over the debacle in 2013.
They were 9th in the league in terms of sacks per game allowed at 1.9.
Also 9th in sack percentage.
All vast improvements from 2013.
They were 22nd in run blocking - IMO, the major issue facing this offense moving forward.
I thought he touched on the biggest improvement the Offense made: Vereen. Our hurry-up wasn't nearly as good as we're accustomed and that's one of the best parts of Eli's game. We couldn't score at the end of halves and games, when the outcome was in the balance.
Vereen is a huge help in that key situation.
This year, they need to make the jump and I agree, that jump has to be in the run game.
I also think Eli and this offense is going to be better because of familiarity, but I also think you'll see more wrinkles put in second year.
It seemed last year, even as we got to the beginning of camp, the installation of the offense was a very slow process.
Don't worry Curtis. I've already proven that you just made that shit up.
According to PFF--so take it for what it's worth--the Giants line ranked 13th in pass protection and 30th in run blocking.
That seems to support the numbers and what we saw last season.
Link - ( New Window )
Also, to quote FootballOutsiders on sacks:
Also, to quote FootballOutsiders on sacks:
Quote:
The sack is almost like a litmus test for where a fan is in their understanding of the game. Usually you start out thinking it's all about the offensive line and protection, but the sack is actually very dependent on the quarterback. To put it another way, sack avoidance is a great quarterback skill.
Quote:
Mobility is one of the most overrated attributes for a quarterback when it comes to avoiding sacks. The signal callers with excellent footwork in the pocket, capable of quickly identifying a target and releasing are the best at avoiding sacks. It doesn't matter that they couldn't break five seconds in a 40-yard dash. History has shown most of the highly sacked quarterbacks were mobile guys unwilling to give up on the play.
And throwing off that back foot!!! ha!!!!!!
Giants gave up less sacks than Dallas. Not stating they're better - just disapproving your rhetoric.
Again, the problem is that they struggled with their run blocking.
Just askin'
Quote:
could see that the Giants OL wasn't better at anything than the Dallas OL except losing. Anyone who watched the two Giants vs. Dallas games and thought Eli had better pass protection than Romo is blinder and deader than Ray Charles.
Giants gave up less sacks than Dallas. Not stating they're better - just disapproving your rhetoric.
Again, the problem is that they struggled with their run blocking.
Agreed
They were 9th in the league in terms of sacks per game allowed at 1.9.
Also 9th in sack percentage.
All vast improvements from 2013.
They were 22nd in run blocking - IMO, the major issue facing this offense moving forward.
C'mon B, don't shatter the illusion. These guys seem to enjoy the myth of horrible pass protection ...Eli can't throw lying on his back ... Eli's going to get killed, etc. Should we improve the O-line? Absolutely. Do I want to see some help there from the draft? Absolutely. And I especially would like to see improvement in the run blocking. But with changes to the O-line that we already know are coming, and the addition of Vereen, I'm not obsessing over the O-line.
Quote:
for least sacks allowed.
They were 9th in the league in terms of sacks per game allowed at 1.9.
Also 9th in sack percentage.
All vast improvements from 2013.
They were 22nd in run blocking - IMO, the major issue facing this offense moving forward.
C'mon B, don't shatter the illusion. These guys seem to enjoy the myth of horrible pass protection ...Eli can't throw lying on his back ... Eli's going to get killed, etc. Should we improve the O-line? Absolutely. Do I want to see some help there from the draft? Absolutely. And I especially would like to see improvement in the run blocking. But with changes to the O-line that we already know are coming, and the addition of Vereen, I'm not obsessing over the O-line.
There's a ridiculously pervasive thought perpetuated by the BBI Mouthbreathers Society that the OLine was worse than it actually was. They certainly weren't great - but to hear some people just spout out what they believe to be "fact" with little to no understanding of offensive line play or what actually happened over 16 games becomes almost an addiction with people. It's very odd.
I agree with your thoughts on addressing the oline - no doubt they need some help and some depth. But the Chicken Little act believed by so many here is played out at this point.
But wait, I thought that was because of our "horrible" defensive line and Coordinator. Btw the way, the sack totals for the two dallas games are 4 to 2 in favor of the cowboys. Our horrible offensive line which averaged a bit less than two sacks allowed per game actually gave up a little bit more than average against the cowboys. Interesting
And before you guys go there, the first game against Dallas occurred in week seven before the Beckham show really got started. Odell stats in the first game was 4 catches for 34 yards. While he did account for two touchdowns, Eli somehow managed to get 210 yards to the other receivers despite the "poor" pass blocking line. Also remember that both Cruz and Jennings were injured that week.
I'm not just talking about play-calling but also designing plays, teaching the plays, uses of personnel and formations, exploiting mismatches and covering weaknesses, avoiding tenancies, etc...
When in actuality they were better at PassPro according to the numbers.
Know how many PA's Manning had last year? 601
How about Romo? 435
That's a difference of 166 PA's or over 10 a game.
Yet the Giants protected their QB better than Dallas despite more opportunities for the defense to sack the QB. Again, the Cowboys gave up more sacks than the Giants despite 166 less Passing Attempts over the course of 16 games.
Those numbers are pretty difficult to ignore.
It's a discussion becasue All Pros and Pro Bowls are about the individual - not the unit.
You made a blanket statement that has been proven wrong - admit it and move on.
That would be hard to measure because a lot of plays were designed to get the ball out quickly. That would cause defenders to hold up and consider reversing direction.
If you could only measure play where Eli dropped back X number of steps...
As far as run blocking they were dysfunctional. Stacked and stymied all season. Short yardage was an embarrassment. 3.6 YPC was among the worst in the league.
-The OL or bust crowd
Quote:
why don't you find proof of your assertion that the Giants ranked in the bottom half of the league in pass protection. Since you are the one making the claim, I feel the burden of proof is on you
Don't worry Curtis. I've already proven that you just made that shit up.
Well good lookin out B. :) Haha, I have to admit I'm surprised.
Eli gets the ball out quickly and sometimes forces throws to avoid sacks. So while he may not get sacked a lot, it doesnt mean he isnt getting pressured/hit. Unfortunately it leads to a higher number of INTs.
So Rodgers/Romo hold the ball and get sacked but they dont throw INTs.
Eli's pass protection was not very good last year. I credit McAdoo for setting up an offense for getting the ball away quickly.
And of course the fact that the ball got out quicker was a factor - as was the inability of the oline to run block effectively - causing the offense to pass more.
We're just asserting that the PP was better than average and the RB was pretty poor.