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If cooper and white are gone by 9..

ANGPASS : 4/4/2015 9:58 am
I want sherff or shelton. Neither are sexy picks, but we don't need sexy right now. OBJ was the sexy pick last year. Now, we need a boring and ugly pick. The last few years, we have not been able to stop the run or establish the run. To me, the WRs are the best players in the draft, but either sherf, who is a nasty player or Shelton, who is a game changing DT would make others better around them.

If we draft Scherf:
Mauler, physical, nasty lineman.
Help out with the run game which leads to more productive PA.
Eli can have more time in the pocket
line is set for the next 3 years

If we draft shelton:
We can put teams in third and long situations more often
match up with dallas and eagles Olines
Also get after the qb.

Either way, we still need big time help in the trenches. The picks are boring but the production of the unit will improve tremendously. I really think we need that more than anything else.

as for the second round, i am sure we could get a good wr or a stud MLB like denzel perriman.
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Again - trying to add a touch of reality to some of the musings  
Bob in Newburgh : 4/5/2015 9:33 am : link
Barring injury - Ellis is a better pro DT in 2015 than Shelton.

Claims that Shelton can get to the QB in the NFL are disingenuous.

You want to waste the #9 on a redundancy in 2015 - take Shelton.

RE: Again - trying to add a touch of reality to some of the musings  
LauderdaleMatty : 4/5/2015 9:48 am : link
In comment 12218253 Bob in Newburgh said:
Quote:
Barring injury - Ellis is a better pro DT in 2015 than Shelton.

Claims that Shelton can get to the QB in the NFL are disingenuous.

You want to waste the #9 on a redundancy in 2015 - take Shelton.


You could probably say the same about White and Cooper vs Randle.

All of this is suppositon. Every year some of the xant miss guys fall off and other guys kot nearly as touted show up.

I do t want Shelton as IMO as he playes the exact postion that
hankins playes. Even a WR whom I think is superfluous at 9 is a better choice.

Most of these players grades most likely So similar it's really down to need and fit. And saying the OL isn't the biggest need when there isn't a single guy on the whole offensive line that will even sniff the probowl in the next few years OL may be the best pick even if some of the other players are rated slightly higher

I keep praying Beasley slides but it's doubtful. the only group more aversge or worse is linebacker and he could be used in a lot of wAys.
The reason we apparently let LinJo walk  
Big Blue '56 : 4/5/2015 9:53 am : link
was that we felt Hankins played the same position with a higher upside..If true, then I would imagine, if Shelton plays the same position as Hankins, then he won't be our pick if he falls to us..
Can Shelton play the 3-Gap?  
Giants2012 : 4/5/2015 9:58 am : link
It's not even being mentioned. Ngata's demonstrated he's one of the few very large DLinemen who doesn't lose power when his first step is forward, otherwise, the Wilfork, Li Joseph, etc's first step at the 0-1 is up. Can Shelton be a 3 Gap player? Not even sure sure Ellis can play the 3-Gap to be honest.
Only know what I read on BBI  
jLefty : 4/5/2015 2:34 pm : link
but while I'm all in for a WR, it seems if we go OT in one we can get a good WR in 40. If it's WR in one there are starter OT's in the 40 hole.
people seem to overlook the lack of pass rush last season  
Jersey55 : 4/6/2015 10:32 am : link
if we can't get one of the premier WRs or if Sherff is gone then we need to take one of the excellent pass rushers who would still be available
Picking a DT at #9 would be an off the grid pick for NYG  
JonC : 4/6/2015 10:46 am : link
NYG puts the DL premium on DE, both in terms of football impact and cap dollars. DT isn't top 5 among their premium positions.

Factor in the historically high bust rate in the top 15 for DTs, and the belief he's better suited to 3-4 NT, and I just don't see them drafting Shelton.

I had these similar exchanges a year ago regarding Donald, and never heard his name once in the back channels. Same this year, nothing on Shelton.
I'm hearing that Shelton is similar to Hankins.  
Big Blue '56 : 4/6/2015 10:51 am : link
If so, my desire to take him was misguided..If the Giants let go of LinJo who was viewed similar to Hankins and they chose not to re-sign him, why would they draft Shelton if he's similar to Hankins?
I think there's some DT changes going on  
JonC : 4/6/2015 10:59 am : link
Hankins is more of the 1-tech quick pass rusher than expected, whereas LJ or Shelton would be your 3-tech and his role is to eat and occupy blockers to free up the LBs, etc.
Signing Ellis at the 3-tech won't preclude them from  
JonC : 4/6/2015 11:03 am : link
potentially adding a better DT, but doing so at #9 would be off the grid for them. Their history indicates they will seek value in their DTs be it drafting one that slips to the 2nd round, or an Ellis that has significant potential but has been unable to unseat some strong competition on the NYJ, and a contract that is value heavy for them.

When I think of a 3 tech, I think of Tommy Kelly(in his prime)  
Big Blue '56 : 4/6/2015 11:06 am : link
with his agility and speed..Not sure LinJo had those skillsets..

I think LinJo was more similar to Hankins than a Kelly, no?
John Randle also springs to mind  
Big Blue '56 : 4/6/2015 11:09 am : link
.
3-tech is your bigger dude  
JonC : 4/6/2015 11:10 am : link
His job is to occupy space and blockers, close gaps, free up LBs, push the pocket back into the QB. That was LJ. He was big and agile for his size, but his size and power were the keys.

Your 1-tech is shading the shoulder of his OL, trying to beat him and split the gap to reach the QB. He's the quicker DT, more athletic, the penetrator.
RE: 3-tech is your bigger dude  
Giants2012 : 4/6/2015 11:11 am : link
In comment 12219233 JonC said:
Quote:
His job is to occupy space and blockers, close gaps, free up LBs, push the pocket back into the QB. That was LJ. He was big and agile for his size, but his size and power were the keys.

Your 1-tech is shading the shoulder of his OL, trying to beat him and split the gap to reach the QB. He's the quicker DT, more athletic, the penetrator.


3-tech is a "bigger dude" than the 1?
Generally, yes  
JonC : 4/6/2015 11:14 am : link
LJ, Canty, Cofield, Keith Hamilton, etc.

doesn't make sense Jon..Just looked up on PFF after your comments  
Big Blue '56 : 4/6/2015 11:14 am : link
and I found this:

Quote:
Probably the most well known of the defensive techniques, the 3-technique lines up shaded to the guard’s outside shoulder, ready to shoot the B-gap on his side of the formation. Various line shifts and defensive schemes have been developed with the express purpose of getting the 3-technique the most beneficial situation possible, which is why guys like Warren Sapp, John Randle, Keith Millard and now Ndamukong Suh have been able to rack-up sack numbers.

The 4-3 Under front, discussed in our article on Hybrid defenses, was designed to isolate the weak side guard 1-on-1 with the 3-technique (or under) tackle. This player’s job is to penetrate the line of scrimmage through his B-gap and disrupt plays in the backfield, whether pass or run. Unlike the first two tackle positions, the 3-technique relies far more on speed and agility than brute strength.
RE: Generally, yes  
Giants2012 : 4/6/2015 11:15 am : link
In comment 12219241 JonC said:
Quote:
LJ, Canty, Cofield, Keith Hamilton, etc.


You mean taller? He's not heavier usually. That 1-tech is the heavy set player whose first step is up rather than the 3-tech which is forward. That's kinda why I'm curious is Ellis was really signed as depth for Hankins with Bromley, Jenkins and Kuhn (until somebody else is drafted) at #3.
Reverse my comments, gents  
JonC : 4/6/2015 11:16 am : link
Monday Morning and trying to type while on a conference call, I was backwards.
Thanks Jon,  
Big Blue '56 : 4/6/2015 11:17 am : link
I thought I lost my mind..:)
RE: 3-tech is your bigger dude  
Giants2012 : 4/6/2015 11:18 am : link
In comment 12219233 JonC said:
Quote:
His job is to occupy space and blockers, close gaps, free up LBs, push the pocket back into the QB. That was LJ. He was big and agile for his size, but his size and power were the keys.

Your 1-tech is shading the shoulder of his OL, trying to beat him and split the gap to reach the QB. He's the quicker DT, more athletic, the penetrator.


LJ was a 1-tech. Not a 3. The 1-tech is usually the slower. You have it backwards.
No worries :)  
Giants2012 : 4/6/2015 11:19 am : link
:)
Medic!  
JonC : 4/6/2015 11:20 am : link
Caffeine!
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