3 excellent 'closer looks' at top Giant targets at DE

Beasley may bust because he's not suited for a 4-3. etc, etc.

Agree to disagree. The league doesn't go around suspending guys for failing to reach their potential. Right or wrong they suspend you for failing drug tests. His failure at the Combine when he knew he had to be clean speaks directly to his inability to control his addiction. Why would that change now? And why the hell would a team risk it's most important pick in a decade on that guy? Answer? They won't.

I'll change my stance on drafting players with marijuana problems with the highest pick we've had in over a decade.

In comment 12217513 Torrag said:

Quote:

I'll change my stance on drafting players with marijuana problems with the highest pick we've had in over a decade.

Actually, I still wouldn't..The grass means zip to me..That he used it before the biggest "test" or "audition" of his life is extremely telling..What will he do when his pockets are dripping with money?

In comment 12217512 Torrag said:

Quote:

Agree to disagree. The league doesn't go around suspending guys for failing to reach their potential. Right or wrong they suspend you for failing drug tests. His failure at the Combine when he knew he had to be clean speaks directly to his inability to control his addiction. Why would that change now? And why the hell would a team risk it's most important pick in a decade on that guy? Answer? They won't.

Its not an opinion. Its a fact that weed is a risk just like on the field risk factors. It should be weighted like any other risk in evaluating a players likelihood of reaching their potential.

That's right, 30th against the run! Do you guys think that's OK? Shelton with Hankins next to him would stop that post haste. Shelton also played an unbelievable amount of snaps for his team and continuously put pressure on the QB. As Casey used to say, "you could look it up"

that brings great shame on the Giants organization like if they were drafting a psychopath. If Gregory busts because of weed its not different than Dupree busting because he never refines his game.

In comment 12217513 Torrag said:

Quote:

I'll change my stance on drafting players with marijuana problems with the highest pick we've had in over a decade.

I don't blame you for this stance. It is certainly a credible one. I like how he owned up to his past in the Kim Jones article and believe the kid when he says it's behind him.

Don't know if the Giants will see it the same way but he seems to be a 'good' kid and there are character issues that make me hesitate much more than what he has.

With Spags back in the fold the premium will be put back on pass-rush and he is the best pure pass rush 4-3 DE (with versatility) in this draft. Is he worht the 'risk' at 9, I say yes.

He very rarely gave ground when double teamed and played the run with no concerns. He has Michael Strahan strength. I never knew that you crave smoking pot? I smoked and never had a physical or psychological craving and I never met anyone that did

They all carry on the field risks. Gregory the same as anyone else. Is his frame too slight to carry more weight effectively? Can he be an effective run stopper? Can he be effective as a 4-3 DE in our scheme? Etc etc etc. You hope with talent, discipline and work ethic and will power the player you select will reach his 'on field' potential.

Off the field character risks such as drugs negatively impact your evaluation of the players ability to fulfill that potential. They are a greater risk precisely because they haven't shown the necessary discipline and willpower to abstain. Strength of character is a factor in evaluations for exactly this reason. If it was only about physical ability everyone would be a star.

I'd bet more that 50% of the NFL use something to gain and keep their weight. If you think smoking weed is a sign of weak character and taking steroids or HGH's isn't, what can I tell you. If they dont take steroids or hgh.s they pump themselves full of pain killers and greenies.

The NFL PED testing is a complex issue and I don't have enough facts to argue it with you. i don't know what they test for or when and how. I know they do testing.

I also know potential draftees know they will be tested for marijuana. So if you fail that test you have willpower and self discipline problems or you're too stupid to draft anyway.

You have your opinion and Coach has his. I agree with Coach. If you look at everything out there on this kid on the field. All the tape, combine, his measurables, you come away thinking man he will have a big impact on our defense. He's no doubt a supreme DE prospect, as good as they are going to come.

You maybe right that the Giants don't take him, but I think it would be a shame if this organization hamstrung itself on questions about weed use, instead of primarily looking at what these guys can do on the field. As Coach said, he's a good kid and I linked some videos in the thread that speak to it. If the Giants pick him, it will be a great draft pick and no one will condemn the Giants for taking the risk.

If his drug issues effect his career and a Josh Gordon or Will Hill type situation arises plenty of people will blame the Giants for picking him. Myself included. Mr. Mara might ask JR for an explanation don't you think?

Drafting #9 there are many excellent football players to choose from. There is no need to take on the added risk Gregory is burdened with imo.

it's the right football move, will or should the Giants do it? That is another debate

I think we sometimes read to much into things like this. There are obvious bad character kids and then there are knuckleheads that don't think because they are young (look at Jameis Winston!) not stupid. I think Gregory is in the latter category. Just my opinion.

Admittedly, I really like the talent and the kid and I am desperate for the Giants to fill that glaring need at DE (kiwi gone) with who I believe is the best in the draft at that position just as we did last year with Beckham, when Nicks was let go. Last year, I swear, I saw Beckham and he definitely passed the eye test to me and I was like I wouldn't mind if we draft him when his stock started to rise. With Gregory's stock seemingly falling, I definitely and adamantly hope the Giants pick him, if he's there at 9.
Link - ( New Window )

there is a difference between being young and walking off with a bag of crab legs from the grocery and failing 3 drug tests. The last of which you knew was coming and the impact it has on your future. His interviews where he talks about having woken up 'needing to smoke' speak volumes in his case imo.

LOL!!

give yourself an enema you're so full of shit

You ned to learn when to pick your battles on thjis site as I've learned rather quickly. Some peoples opinions are skewed and so far off base from what the Giants look for in a player it's not even worth arguing. Not worth arguing just take satisfaction when the Giants don't select Gregory and he slips to the middle teens,early 20's in the first round or even further.
As I stated above,the Giants like smart players and Gregory doesn't come close to fitting that criteria.
Smoking weed alone isn't the issue. It's still illegal in most states and is banned by the NFL. Gregory knows this and still smoked before the combine. It takes 30 days at most for pot to come out of your system,even if his levels were high as he ststed.
While he may be clean now you don't just stop craving something you are addicted to and love doing over night. He may say that's the case and he wouldn't be the first addict to think that way,but there's an underlying issue there that needs to be dealt with and it's not just going to go away. Trust me when I say we haven't heard the last of Gregorys addiction.
You don't quit because somebody else wants you to. It sounds to me like he's obstaining right now because he wants to be drafted high to get that money,but once he gets paid what's to stop him then. Obviously random drug testing isn't enough,or atleast hasn't been in the past.
The Giants should stay far away from this kid. There's a lot of good football players in this draft and he's not worth the risk IMO.
I'm not a fan of the OL in this draft having the value at 9 overall,but I'd rather see them go in that direction before drafting this dude.

And I think it is a smart strategy to show restraint on those types of players especially high in the draft.

With that said, Gregory has owned up to his past mistakes and sounds to be a player who is ready for the next stage of his life. He is just too good a talent, as he could easily go top 5 without the question marks.

I would be ecstatic if the Giants tabbed him at 9, as it would mean he would be cleared by the front office who have immensely more access to information on him than I do.

Cosell and Boylehart love the kid with Cosell more or less saying he is potentially a better player than Clowney. You may think that is ridiculous praise but when you watch the film it's hard not too see the immense talent. Lastly he has been making plenty of 'tackle reads' at the snap reading offensive movement first instead of charging straight up field all the time. If they played a more aggressive style of D , Gregory could have easily had 12-15 sacks.

This kid didn't dog it on the field like Clowney did in College. This kid comes to play every down. Players who dog it and don't seem to care, scare me a heck of alot more than what I know about Gregory.

He got caught then lied about how long it's been since he has smoked. If he had stopped in December as he claims he would have tested clean. Not buying it. Pass.

not owned up to it and basically lied. I'd bet he gets caught again and wouldn't be surprised if it was before camp.

He's very skinny, much thinner than Moore was. Looks to have a big enough frame to carry more upper body strength which he would need in the NFL.

I just would have to pass. They cannot afford to lose games to a suspension.

Owning up to something you've done and dealing with the underlying issue to make sure it doesn't happen again are two totally different things.
Not to mention he really didn't have a choice in the matter,he had to own it. He couldn't sit down in his meeting and deny It as he knew they would find out soon enough and didn't want to hurt his stock any worse then it was already going to. To be perfectly honest with you he didn't own it because if he had really been obstaining like he said there would not have been a dirty U.A. at the combine. If your levels are as high as they can get it only takes 30 days to get out of your system,so he's definitely lieing!! He has what 10% body fat at most and weed is stored in fat cells,so it's likely to metabolize out of his system even faster the that.
No way the Giants take a chance on this kid,nor should they!!

if they pass up Gregory if he is sitting there at 9 because he very well could be the highest rated player on their board at that point... If they haven't removed him from their board already.

who probably wasn't going to be the pick prior to positive test, is only 245. He may put another 25 pounds on but that may very well change his speed and level of athleticism.

Strahan inclined about 400 pounds - no way Gregory is close to that.

I hope the Giants go OL.

Gregory would be a great pick at 9 for our Giants. However, our Giants are a team that are very big on "image". How would it look if they drafted Gregory at #9 after cutting a very talented Will Hill 2 years ago for the same reason?

NOT GOING TO HAPPEN

The Giants are a family and like to keep things squeaky clean (meaning Mara and Tisch will not tolerate any player who violates NFL code!).

they're revealing their ignorance.

they're revealing there(exceptional) ignorance,as there claiming to have a clue when it's quite obvious they know nothing about addiction or being an addict!!!

Everyone is different, but I remember a bunch of people saying those of us who worried about Johnny Manziel were old farts and behind the times.

Parts from the Kim Jones article:

Obviously this is new news -- that I failed the test at the combine -- but the fact that I've smoked in the past isn't a mystery," Gregory said. "I've had conversations with (NFL) coaches. I believe we all have an understanding of why I did it. But I feel like I'm improving. I know I am."

Gregory said he has taken regular drug tests, administered by the new support team around him -- including agent Deryk Gilmore of Priority Sports -- and that his levels continue to decline. (A second source, who was informed of the test results, confirmed that info

"I don't want my career to be defined by the fact that I had failed a drug test or anything of that sort," Gregory said. "I want people to remember me as that top-10, top-five (draft pick) that had a 10-year career, a number of championships. I want to be known as that guy. I don't want to be known as a bust or that guy who came in (to the league) with a drug habit."

Gregory said life without marijuana is "clearer" and added, "People also get to see how I really am instead of me walking around like a zombie or something."

He also understands that some people will be skeptical.

"I want people to really understand that I know I made a mistake, for one," Gregory said. "That I knew what I had coming up (the combine), and I still made that mistake. That was dumb.

"I want people to understand I'm not some dumb jock pothead. I'm not," he added. "I'm intelligent. I love the people who help me, I love my family, I love my support group. I love football. I love winning. And I don't want to be labeled as some bust that couldn't make it because he smoked. And I won't be labeled as that.

"So I just want people to understand that. This may be a setback. You may look at me a certain way, but at the end, I'm still going to be on top. I'm still going to do well."

How this affects Gregory's draft stock cannot be known yet. Gregory said he receives great support from his family (parents Ken and Mary Gregory and his brother, who is in seventh grade, live in Michigan) as well as Gilmore and the agent's surrounding cast.

Gregory has been training both his body and mind for the road ahead. A stomach ailment caused his weight to drop to 235 pounds before the combine; since then, he's added eight pounds. He said he ran the 40-yard dash in 4.53 seconds during his training session Wednesday morning at Goldin Athletics Training Association in the Atlanta area.

"I'm sure there are some guys who can do it, who are successful and still can smoke," Gregory said. "But I don't think I'm one of those guys. In order for me to be successful, I put it down."

Gregory seems to appreciate that it will take action, not words, to prove he can stay away from the drug. He said he knows "everyone's going to judge me. But they're entitled to their opinion."

In the coming days and weeks, Gregory will make pre-draft visits to multiple teams. He wants to show that he has the athleticism to play defensive end in a 4-3 scheme or outside linebacker in a 3-4.

"I'm trying to set myself apart from all the other edge rushers in the class," he said. "I want a team to draft me and feel like this is a guy we can put anywhere on the field and he's going to help us."

First, there surely will be a new round of questions about his drug use. Gregory was pleased to learn Wednesday afternoon that former Jets and Chiefs coach Herm Edwards has agreed to mentor him. And in Gilmore, his agent, Gregory has a committed advocate. Gilmore plans to share with every NFL team a "detailed plan" that he believes will help to ensure Gregory continues on the right path.

"I've seen him make great strides," Gilmore said. "This is a good kid, a good family. ... This is a (societal) issue, not just an athlete issue. Am I trying to make allowances for anything? No. All I can tell you is, I've seen this man improve leaps and bounds."

Gregory calls playing professional football "a dream." But before he even enters the NFL, his career may be at a crossroads.

"(Marijuana) could end my career," he said. "This incident right now is a step toward ending my career. The last thing I want to do is fail another drug test and be out of the league.

"I want it on the record. I want people to understand I know I messed up. I'm owning up to it. I realize it. But at the same time, I'm taking the right steps to get better and to fix it."

so they are definitely not going to look at it like..

oh ts just a little weed..

be stunned if Gregory is the pick.

I would say to those people that they are probably behind in the times,as they sound like they don't know much about alcoholism or addiction. It's very prevalent in todays society more then ever before and it's nothing to just sweep under the rug.
Gregory is in his early 20's though,and now would be the time to change as it only gets harder and harder the older you get.
Speaking from experience there is no way I'd take a chance on this kid with the 9th pick in the draft. He needs to develop a track record of clean,sober living and good decision making!!

smoking weed is alcoholism or drug addiction only on BBI

Not eating can be an addiction. Internet games can be an addiction. Cheeseburgers can be an addiction. It does not have to cause physical withdrawal symptoms. Shopping can be an addiction. Gambling.

I once did a job for Coca Cola. The average soft drink consumer in America has the equivalent of one 12 oz can twice a week.

The top 5% of people who consume coca cola or Pepsi consume 8 cans a day.

There was a time pre Internet when phone sex sites made a fortune for the Baby Bells. They did a study and found that the top 8% of user callers to phone sex operators averaged 17 hours a day.

Any myopia that acts like a tunnel when you wake up and all you see on the other end of the tunnel you view life is the only thing you can focus on....you are not in balance enough to have good judgement and steady discipline to sacrifice today for a payoff tomorrow.

but you know all this. You have been around and seen the world.


But as it relates to Gregory...He is too light and good college tackles took him out of games.


And ...the sudden weight loss before the combine of a guy who has 10% body fat and the "walking around like a zombie" comment sure don't contradict addictive minds.

Hell posting on BBI is addicting. It's Saturday night and we are doing it.

if he is the Giants pick. I will say whoever gets him will have a player who can be great and leave at that for now

and if the Giants select him...then we root for him. all good.

/sarcasm off

This is scary stuff to an organization about to commit millions of dollars and an incredibly valuable asset to the franchise...

"I don't wake up every day saying, I'd really love to go smoke," he said. "It's not a struggle for me every day (now), it really isn't. In the past, hell yeah, it's been a struggle. It really has been. Now, I'm focused on my dream."

Let's put 'the past' into context here. 'The past' was six weeks ago. This revelation didn't occur before the Combine when he knew he would be drug tested. Only after when his future is at risk. Then eureka suddenly he's a changed man. Now he has 'a plan' to defeat his addiction. That's great for the young man and I wish him well. I'm not investing the #9 pick in him. No way.

Would be a great fit here but the weed issues can't
be ignored and after the Will Hill debacle I can't
see them taking him.
This seems to be a complicated make or break draft year .
Sheldon would also be a great addition and go a long
ways in shoring up the run Defense .
I love Beasly but I don't think he fits our defense .
I can't see us passing on a Guy like Collins or Sherff
only if Cooper or White slide the debate would be tough .
Its been quite some time since we picked this high
and most feel the Blue Goose tackle is not there
this year . I would consider trading down if Cooper
falls and say Cleveland wants him . Having 3 picks
in the top 40 woulld potentially land 3 starters .

In comment 12217915 Eric from BBI said:

Quote:

Everyone is different, but I remember a bunch of people saying those of us who worried about Johnny Manziel were old farts and behind the times.

1. He displayed laziness with regard to his craft. Gregory hasn't.

2. Manziel is a QB and so everything personality related is much more important for him than any other position.

The comparison is with the other supremely gifted players who were dumb enough to get busted for weed. Again Sapp, Moss, Calvin Johnson come to mind.

On the other side of the ledger (and not as gifted) there's Will Hill. Who else? Who else has had a weed issues that has prevented them from fulfilling their potential? I honestly can't think of one. Josh Gordon has a lot more problems than just weed. Is there anyone else?

...suspensions. As Giants fans we are familiar with the particulars in the case of Will Hill as he played for our team.

Unless you've been there and overcome it then your opinion really doesn't matter because you aren't speaking from experience and probably don't know what you're talking about.
I myself have been there and I know just how hard it is to overcome after years of substance abuse. Been clean and sober now for 3 years
Unless you've had someone close to you that has gone through it,then you may have an (idea) but still really don't know how it is.
I've known people who've smoked for years and one in particular that smoked for 30 years,every day and couldn't function without it. Until this dude smoked he was ugly and completely flat. As soon as he smoked it was like night and day. So those who say you can't be addicted to smoking weed,you're just flat out wrong!!
I myself smoked weed growing up as a teenager,from the age of 13 to 18 or 19. I can tell you it is addicting both physically and mentally. It also changes your personality greatly until you smoke,and it takes more than 6 weeks to change this kind of learned behavior.
I'm not saying he can't and wont change,infact I hope he does. I'm saying that he needs to develop a track record of sobriety and better decision making. There's not enough time between now and the draft to accomplish that and that's why I believe he's not the selection at 9,nor should he be at this point...

Thank you. Truth. All the best to you.

No problem bud. some one needed to say it!
and thank you,you too...

Gregory scares me. DE at 235 lbs? A player who has trouble keeping weight on? He is the 3/4/LB IMHO much more than Beasley. Beasley is a 4/3 LB who can play the LT role coming off the edge, but has the athleticism to cover as a WLB. Gregory looks like Aundray Bruce to me.

I cannot imagine the Giants having Gregory on their board until round 3. But I have not spoken with Jerry Reese for a couple of weeks now, so who knows?

On Gregory than we do and I trust their judgment. We'll see.

unless they pick a DE like Odi from UCLA, a prospect that appears to be a significant reach at that pick.

I think Peat and Scherff will carry a higher grade than most of the tweener LBs.