if OL in 1st...I am starting to believe it should be Peat

You could make a case for Clemmings based on potential. Personally, I prefer Collins if they go OL in the 1st.

Did not realize he's only 21.

Strange draft IMO. Lot of shuffling opinions regarding these OT.

Collins as well. I do like Peat; however Peat is a T. What happens if Pugh can't make the switch to LG? Most believe Collins can play both LG and RT at a high level. Probably because he already has played both in the best conference in college football.

that a first round OL, even a high first rounder, is a failure if he doesn't become an everyday LT. Blocking responsibilities are more complicated than they were a decade or two ago, and elite guards are no longer just failed tackles. Improved guard play from this squad could turn the running game into an asset this year and prevent teams from playing nickel and dime packages consistently against our passing attack. If Beatty is the LT for the next year or two, getting a plug and play guard like Scherff could provide as much impact as any other draft pick on the offensive side of the ball and, by lengthening drives, impact the defensive side of the ball too.

Far and away the best athlete of the group. Can play any position up and down the line at a high level imo. He's got the size, strength, smarts, toughness, and experience you want to see. Has the highest floor of any of the potential OL picks and a high ceiling. What's not to like.

Accurately virtually every Giants first round pick is starting to think Peat may be the choice too. He says unfortunately because he is not a big fan of Peat. I think we are likely getting a player who will be about the same level as Beatty but at 9.

In comment 12218232 SomeFan said:

Quote:

Accurately virtually every Giants first round pick is starting to think Peat may be the choice too. He says unfortunately because he is not a big fan of Peat. I think we are likely getting a player who will be about the same level as Beatty but at 9.

SF.
If that's true then he won't be the pick. They aren't taking a Beatty level player at 9. There are other options.

is the pick, where does he play in 2015?

First of all, thank you George.

Second, I came away Thinking we can get a "high potential" even into the low 30 slots.

Next, of those 5...Given this one year....If go Rt at Flowers...because he can play now and has the highest floor and ceiling at a starting position.

Collins is next for he is the least disruption to the line in year one...As a LG Pugh does not have to move as well. Then in 2016 Collins goes to Rt and Pugh goes inside or to LT to replace Beatty.

Peat is third to me for although his ceiling is a dream...it involves not playing in 2015 and requires a LG for 2015.

Imho

will be nothing more than an average tackle but I'm no draftnik either. I hope I'm wrong if this is the pick.

I like Collins because of nastiness, power and ability to dominate. We need nastiness on the line.

With Peat, I am a little apprehensive about drafting a player that needs coaching to develop (Peat only started playing football in HS). That has not been a strong suit for the Giants coaching staff, particularly the OL coaches.

Regardless, I would not be upset with Peat, he's a great player, and we need help on the OL. I just like the other two OL guys better.

but mixed on Peat. Some like JonC like him and others like Phil in LA don't. I belive Sy thinks he has the highest ceiling but is kinda raw now and feels Scherff and Collins would be good fits(correct me if I'm wrong Sy)..

Sy also believes that Scherff has the feet to eventually move to OLT..

It appears to me that Scherff or Collins would fit nicely and could play ORT from the get-go with Pugh sliding to LG..

If it's OL at 9 I'd prefer Scherff at this point..

...he has no 'weaknesses'. Top athlete? Check. Smart and technically sound? Check. Tough and strong? Check. Dominated competition consistently? Check. Work ethic? Check.

Why is Peat in such lousy condition? Why didn't he dominate the competition consistently?

Collins is limited athletically. How does that impact his upside?

Flowers pass protection needs a lot of work. Footwork, kickslide, balance...it's all ugly.

Clemmings is raw at everything but is the second best athlete of the group.

question is where does Pugh play next year.

Rest assured the Giants hierarchy knows that answer but will not reveal it until after the draft.

If Pugh is moved to left guard, then you need to draft the player that will be the best right tackle. Many think that is Flowers.

Another point I have not seen mentioned is that Flowers, who is only 20 and younger that Peat, is not using an agent (he and his Dad will do the negotiations).

This month is all about deception from General Managers. Lets face it, agents talk. With Flowers not using an agent, any team (like the Giants) that floats out information about an interest in Flowers is not subject to "agent talk" verification and continues the deception of where a teams Round 1 draft interest really lies.

Although it is from far away and true scouts will know more....I am influenced by the maxed out talent and separately the track record of Iowa OL draftees

Pugh can play either spot. I don't think they feel he 'needs' to move to OG but can if the draft falls in a manner that yields an OT.

That gives the Giants the flexibility of targeting an OT #9(Scherff/Collins/Peat) if the value is there in their eyes. Or waiting until #40 and landing a plug and play OG(Tomlinson/Erving/Cann).

like to know- if Peat is the pick, where does he play in 2015?

So Scherff the prospect that tested the best athletically, posted the best 3-cone(agility) in over a decade for an offensive lineman, cleans 480#(strength) in the weight room, ran an excellent 40(stamina), is maxed out?

Explain that logic to me? Isn't upside connected to athleticism? It is in the minds of NFL scouts and GM's.

As far as the Iowa connection that meme has been debunked. The Iowa program has sent a lot more success stories to the NFL than failures. Every prospect is his own and should be judged as such.

In comment 12218264 YANKEE28 said:

Quote:

like to know- if Peat is the pick, where does he play in 2015?

As a rookie, Beatty played in all 16 games, with four starts. So, for Peat...figure special teams, at least...maybe more if he's pressed into service if something happens to Beatty.

In comment 12218264 YANKEE28 said:

Quote:

like to know- if Peat is the pick, where does he play in 2015?

RT. Pugh goes to guard.

I respectively disagree.

If the Giants draft in the # 9 slot, it will be for an immediate starter

Drafting Peat, also puts out a tremendous distraction of Beatty questions.

There is significant pressure on the Giants ownership and management to get back into the playoffs this year. I can't imagine any player at any position that is taken at #9 not being handed a starting slot.

I never said they would draft him (or should). The question was where would he play if they did.

And it much of what some posters have mentioned here previous:

The more I think about it the more Peat has become my odds on favorite pick by Reese.   I consider the following:

The Giants need a quality backup for Beatty.  OT Marshall Newhouse looks closer to Charlie Brown than he does an answer to an important question.

Peat is only 21 years old and Reese seems to prefer his high picks on the young side.  Plus that youth means he has plenty of upside

Peat is the one top O-line prospect that has the most certainty of being a starting NFL OLT at some point in his career

Peat is a physical specimen with the sort of length Jerry seems to prefer. Even Reese admitted that Pugh's short arms gave him pause and sent him back to look at tape.  

If you consider Scherff and Collins those two are physically too much like Pugh.   

Reese doesn't tend to draft interior linemen high.   Peat is an offensive tackle no ifs, ands or buts.   There is some question and uncertainty toward Scherff and Collins ever being an OLT

Beatty will need to be replaced in 2 years and in those years the team needs another starting caliber OLT because of Beatty's long injury history.    They need to replace Eli.   Imagine if Beatty didn't have a rare season where he started all 16 games last season.   Eli isn't as young and isn't able to absorb the punishment a sub par blind side protector would subject him to.

Peat is projected lower than the Giants pick in most mocks.   One thing with Reese, many of his picks over the past few years were projected by the majority of mock drafts to go lower than the Giants drafted them.   Pugh wasn't expected to go as high as he was.  Same with OBJ.  Same with Wilson.   I suspect this has more to do with the Giants scouting staff being pretty good at keeping their mouths shut.   So the mocksters that count on insider information to build their mock drafts don't know how much the Giants like a particular prospect.   

Peat did have a bad game againts Utah, but then every offensive linemen has a bad game.  You don't judge a player by one bad game.  Consider Hall of Fame offensive tackle Walter Jones.  Remember when Osi beat him up and took his lunch money?   

Some have suggested that Peat is soft (from all I can see that's unfounded) but that didn't scare Reese away from drafting Beatty who had a similar label.

He played in a pro style offense, big plus and is well coached so he should be day one ready and less of a risk than the OTs from the spread offenses (who have struggled quite a bit learning the Pro Game)

He should start at RT opening day and be the staring LT two years down the road or sooner if Beatty's health demands

Finally consider what the scouts have said:

Quote

Andrus Peat*, T, Stanford: 6-7, 313. Third-year junior rotated at LT in 2012 before starting the past two years. "He's the most talented (O-lineman)," one scout said. "His dad was really talented but fat. The dad was probably 6-2." Todd Peat was a squatty guard for the Cardinals and Raiders from 1987-'93. "Ready-made NFL player," another scout said. "Left tackle or right tackle. Little bit like Jake Matthews. He won't be an overly dominating type athlete but just sound. Bigger than Jake. A very good, solid player, no question about it." Arms were 34 3/8, hands were 10 5/8.



I believe there is a lot of sound reasoning here. Peat is not a perfect match to the leaner , better 3 cone testing prospects we have been rumored to like before (Lewan, Solder, Tyron Smith) but he pretty much has everything else including bloodlines. I really like a couple other guys but wouldn't be surprised in the least if he was the pick. I also think he is going to be a heck of a LT in this league and a very good RT to start. He is less of a project than people think.

I do not need the most pro ready player.....but potentially the best pro

If Reese's trends continue, he'll take the most pro ready player. He use to draft high ceiling players but those days are over with. Now he is drafting more pro ready types. If they go OLine in the 1st, it will be Collins.

has the best feet of any of the OL prospects. Of course those feet didn't help him against Nate Orchard or ND. He also had a poor combine, and unlike Scherff and Collins, isn't a guard. The Giants would have to play him at tackle, meaning that Pugh would have to shift to guard. My guess is that Pugh can make the transition, and it might be a good idea to have veterans on either side of Richburg in his first year at center. But there are no guarantees, and Pugh has never played guard in the NFL.

Peat is still an excellent prospect, and as somebody said is only 21. I'd take Collins and Scherff over Peat, but Peat over Flowers.

In comment 12218278 JohnB said:

Quote:

I do not need the most pro ready player.....but potentially the best pro If Reese's trends continue, he'll take the most pro ready player. He use to draft high ceiling players but those days are over with. Now he is drafting more pro ready types. If they go OLine in the 1st, it will be Collins.

There is a point where players who are talented enough can buck the learning curve a bit. I think Peat has enough raw talent and just enough polish that he will do pretty well at RT year 1.Then eventually shift over to LT in a year or 2

this draft is deep in mid first round value at tackle. I don't think the gap in talent between the best and someone else who would be available at around 20 is worth giving up a chance to pick up an extra 1st round pick.

Eric Steinbach, Robert Gallery, Riley Reiff, Marshall Yanda, Kyle Calloway all good NFL players. Bulaga also was a nice prospect but the injuries have really taken their toll on him imo.

Seems like a solid success rate to me.

back, Ernie Accorsi couldn't help but to tell the world that he wanted to drafted Shockey.

Those loose lips costs us, as we had to trade up to get Shockey.

Accorsi also told Sinorice Moss' parents that he missed out on the older brother, but that on draft day the Giants were taking Sinorice.

If nothing else, Reese was there under Accorsi and witnessed those mistakes.

Someone on the inside recently told a Giants beat reporter that the Giants were really high on Flowers. We have also been told by Reese that Pugh could be moved to guard. Take all of these comments with a grain of salt. Anything floated out there is floated for a reason.

In comment 12218283 chris r said:

Quote:

this draft is deep in mid first round value at tackle. I don't think the gap in talent between the best and someone else who would be available at around 20 is worth giving up a chance to pick up an extra 1st round pick.

Ugh, a chance to trade down for an extra 2nd round pick.

Basically I'd rather have a second and Clemmings (for example) than just Peat.

The Giants like linemen that can play multiple positions. That would seem to argue for Collins or Scherff, not Peat.

But really, who knows?

In comment 12218284 raever said:

Quote:

Eric Steinbach, Robert Gallery, Riley Reiff, Marshall Yanda, Kyle Calloway all good NFL players. Bulaga also was a nice prospect but the injuries have really taken their toll on him imo. Seems like a solid success rate to me.

Good post. And all of them, IIRC, were solid contributors just about from Day 1. Scherff has superb athleticism and so should still have projection but can also plug and play, probably at either guard spot. I don't know if he has the highest upside of the OL prospects, but with the athleticism I wouldn't necessarily bet against him. But from what I've read and seen I'd be very happy with him at 9.

With Reese, you can forget the talk of trading down to get another 2nd rounder.

It is VERY unlikely that Reese will trade out of # 9. History tells us that.

If he does make a trade down, it will be 4-5 slots at most. That would garner us another #3.

Reese would need to move down at least 10 slots to get an extra # 2. The chances of that are very close to zero.

It's a red chip draft and nowhere is that clearer than on the OL. Barring that elite LT prospect the next best thing is a versatile player with All Pro potential at RT/OG.

If we go OL #9 who exemplifies that profile the best. To me it's Brandon Scherff.

If the Giants see Andrus Peat who is the best pure LT prospect in that Blue Goose mold they will pick him. I doubt it.

In comment 12218295 YANKEE28 said:

Quote:

With Reese, you can forget the talk of trading down to get another 2nd rounder. It is VERY unlikely that Reese will trade out of # 9. History tells us that. If he does make a trade down, it will be 4-5 slots at most. That would garner us another #3. Reese would need to move down at least 10 slots to get an extra # 2. The chances of that are very close to zero.

History has told us a lot of things about Reese that have been since been proven wrong. The sample size is way to small to conclusively deduce what he will or won't do. People swore he undervalued OL and wouldn't go OL in the first based on history. Same with RB and we got Wilson.

Reese will do what he thinks is best for the team, including trading down. Or at least I would hope so.

It's going to be hard to convince me that say Clemmings or Flowers + a 2nd isn't better for the NYGs than Peat or Scherff.

A mountain of a kid that will; develop into a protector (LT) for Eli possibly even this year...
I'm all in with this choice.

that the odds some team is willing to give up a 2nd in this red chip draft to move up to 9 is about the same as Williams dropping to the 9th slot or the Giants moving up to take Winston.

Only possibility IMO is if Mariota is there but that's an extreme long shot at best.

as far as I can tell, much of the first round(aside from the few expected to go early) seems to contain players of similar talent..If so, what team would give up a 2 to move up a few places, even 4-6 places? A 3 possibly, but a 2?

Sorry, don't see it

If Mariotta is gone who are teams moving up for? I think we'd pick Cooper/Beasley/DFJ/White ourselves if they're available. Maybe someone is in love with Waynes? I'm not but it only takes one GM. It seems very unlikely this scenario unfolds imo.

They will both be solid starters initially and likely grow into very good/ Probowl players later. These two give us the most flexibility, we can put them at either position which means we can build the best line with the players we have. It also means we can have depth in case of injuries.

In comment 12218308 Big Blue '56 said:

Quote:

as far as I can tell, much of the first round(aside from the few expected to go early) seems to contain players of similar talent..If so, what team would give up a 2 to move up a few places, even 4-6 places? A 3 possibly, but a 2? Sorry, don't see it

The chart says that moving from about 19 to 9 should cost you a second. So that's ten slots not 4-6.

Second, there's a cluster of 3-4 rushers that a team may covet and want to move up for. Pittsburgh with their edge rushing mess comes to mind. Also, a team may have Parker ranked a good deal higher than the rest of the WRs as most prognosticators do now.

There's plenty of scenarios for a trade down IMO.

In comment 12218323 chris r said:

Quote:

There's plenty of scenarios for a trade down IMO.

Sorry, chart or no chart, can't see any player, outside of the top 5 or 6, that a team would move up ten places and surrender a 2 for..They could save the 2 and pick the highly regarded Malcom Brown instead of Shelton, for example

has a history of taking VERY young players too.

In comment 12218325 Big Blue '56 said:

Quote:

In comment 12218323 chris r said: Quote: There's plenty of scenarios for a trade down IMO. Sorry, chart or no chart, can't see any player, outside of the top 5 or 6, that a team would move up ten places and surrender a 2 for..They could save the 2 and pick the highly regarded Malcom Brown instead of Shelton, for example

It happens every year so I'm not sure why you think this year is any different. A team like Pittsburgh who drafted a bust OLB and lost another 3-4 backer to retirement could very well be tempted if Ray, Beasley or Dupree are there at 9.

I could see a team like Pittsburgh being interested. It's still unlikely but not impossible imo. I don't see many team/player 'fits' that will result in us acquiring a 2nd Rounder.

worth mentioning on Peat is that at the Combine, he did not lift. He indicated it was because of an "elbow issue".

Now at his Pro Day at Stanford (almost a month after the Combine), he again told scouts that he would not lift.

Perhaps nothing, but certainly a point worth mentioning.

People think it's Peat because he is the only player that is considered to play left tackle . All the others are a Guard or at most a right tackle. To me Peat reminds me of what we already have in Beatty . Another guy who lacks a mean streak that will be an average left tackle in the NFL. If we go O line give me the other 2 prospects even though they probably won't play left tackle.

Not really convinced by the "highest upside" argument for Peat as Scherff has the best athletic measurables other than height and arm length which are adequate and he's only been playing O-line for 4 years in college. In fact I remember reading an interview at one point where he talked about how unbelievably raw he was and how much he learned his first year from Riley Reiff. The guy has an incredible work ethic and the personality to continue to learn and grow. From a game tape standpoint Collins looks the best of the three and he eliminated the most pro ready competition ie Fowler, Preston Smith, and he's got the nasty the Giants are missing.

Scherff might end up being a LT, possible RT, but in a worse case a G that plays LG, and next year if GeoffS is done the lineup is Beatty/Pugh-Scherff/FA/pick-Richburg- Jerry/Scherff/FA/pick-Pugh/FA/pick, aka, several options, with Jones either ready or can be further developed.
Scherff gives options AND a mauler.

1) He is one year older....good for an early start....logically the others have more room and also risk they may grow

2) relative to the others Scherf played with an nfl OL development proven coaching staff...The others ( especially Stanford) may or may not have ( I don't know) so the same logic relative to upside and it's concomitant risk factors may apply

3) Peat did not play as many years of football. ...so upside and risk are logically harder to see.

Ultimately I don't care much...what ever player they pick they pick. Until then it's entertainment...for neither of us knows enough about either player ( hopefully the scouts talk to quite a few more people than we do).

I get it...you like Scherf compared to others from what you know. I did not challenge you.
Or try to hurt your feelings.

Seems logical enough for a lite discussion.

I stand corrected of repeating what I heard about Iowa lineman so thank you for that.

Take care

with drafting a perennial all-pro guard?

If Scherff winds up at tackle, all the better. But having him anchor one side of the center for the next 10 years doesn't sound so bad to me!

....Charmin Soft.

I think he needs to hit weight room.

My hunch is that Peat has had to split duties between student and athlete at Stanford and has gotten away with his natural born ability.

I think a summer with out strength guys will propel to the next level.

If he is lazy....not motivated etc....pass.

now I think it's either Peat or Flowers. I'd take Peat between the two, but would probably take Waynes over either.

People who say we have a shot at Cooper or White at #9 are living in la la land. They won't be available. Neither will Fowler or Beasley, and probably not Scherff.

So pick between Collins, Peat, or Flowers. I'd take them in that order. No interest in Dupree at #9.

In comment 12218424 John K said:

Quote:

with drafting a perennial all-pro guard? If Scherff winds up at tackle, all the better. But having him anchor one side of the center for the next 10 years doesn't sound so bad to me!

I agree. For everyone complaining about taking a guard in he first round, look what Doug Martin did for dallas.

It is about value.

It seems that the draft has several nfl ready guards that can be drafted in the 2nd.

So the 1st pick best value seems to be an OT, DE, top WR or top corner.

History tells you you do not draft a G in the top 10. Why - it has been proven you can find equal players all over the draft. That is not the case with a T, particularly with LT

Jonathan Cooper and chance Warmack were the 2 OG picked in the top 10 the last 15 years - that is it. Scherff is not as good a prospect as those players. He is not as good as Martin. He is not as good as DeCastro. How much better is he than a guy you can get later

Joel bitonio went 19 picks after Martin and was just as good. If they switched teams Bitonio gets all the accolades and less for Martin.

If you go OL at 9 you get a guy with the potential to play LT - you overdraft that. I think you then look at a RT. I would go for Peat then Collins if OL

LT at #9 will carry the value, OG will likely not.

Peat or Scherff at #9 is good, otherwise we're unlikely to go OL at #9.

Because it's not a position NYG views as a premium position. QB, DE, WR, LT, CB are their premium positions.

No DT, OG, or S at #9 is likely at that high pick.

if other BPAs are gone. Seems to me however, that Scherff who can start from day one and who(according to Sy et al) can ultimately play OLT, would be the "killing two birds with one stone" pick, imo..

subject to potentially change, though, with three weeks to go. That was also before Flowers' Pro Day, for example, and we just don't know which NYG will prefer. Peat figures to be in the mix at #9.

I like Scherff but the opinions on where he best projects to the NFL vary so much that it's strange.

I just don't think there's a top 10 worthy left tackle in this draft.

We have an adequate one in Beatty (recall we won two Super Bowls with a lesser player in Diehl).

I think Scherff is a future ALL PRO at left guard and a "probably"
Pro Bowler at right tackle.

If they go for Peat, I'd immediately stick him at right tackle - big, tall, strong and wide; Pugh instantly to left guard. I don't think Peat is as NFL ready as Scherff, but eventually could be another Sebastian Vollmer (not bad).

I like Scherff but the opinions on where he best projects to the NFL vary so much that it's strange.

That's because he projects well to multiple positions.

In Scherff you have a prospect with elite traits that apply to both the OT & OG positions. His footwork, agility and length lend themselves to excelling at OT. His powerful base and strength will serve him well inside at OG.

I think he can play all 4 spots at a very high level. The Giants covet versatility and no offensive lineman in this class supplies it like this young man. His combined floor to ceiling correlation is also the best available. If we are going OL #9 and if Scherff is available he will be the pick imo.

the Giants look for at LT. He's can play both LT/RT and is projected to have elite upside at tackle.

Knowing the Giants if they go OL round 1 it will be Peat . Round 2 it will be Fisher or Erving.

.

In comment 12220577 yatqb said:

Quote:

.

You are right they may not. Which is another reason they may not mess around and just go Peat round 1 unless someone unexpected drops.

lost a lot of enthusiasm for him after the Combine. Maybe he'll grow into a top LT, but those tight hips scare me.

In this year's draft that should be mentioned with anybody actually drafted in the top 10 since 2010 ....

2014 - Jake Matthews
2013 - Luke Joeckel
2012 - Matt Kalil
2011 - Tyrone Smith
2010 - Trent Williams

Only Smith (ALL PRO) has been clearly deserving, so far of being top 10; Williams has been Pro bowl once.

Quote:

For the NFL, Peat is a well-rounded blocker who isn't overly dominant as a run-blocker or pass-protector. He could be better off starting his career at right tackle and seeing if he develops to handle the left side. Teams expect Peat to be a top-25 pick in the 2015 NFL Draft. . . . . The Giants could make sense as a team to potentially draft the Cardinal standout. New York has to improve its offensive line in front of Eli Manning, and Peat could start immediately for the Giants at right tackle.

The NFL comparison they make is Beatty. Which I don't see at all. Peat has an entirely different build. He's more comparable to Lewan, Costanzo and Whitworth.
Link - ( New Window )

a slightly less athletic but more powerful Taylor Lewan.

Tucker compared Peat to Andre Whitworth.

He is absolutely in the conversation at 9 and I'd wager he is the #1 OL on our board.