Those seem to be the questions...right? By now the initial dust has settled on Gregory's pot smoking news. At first I paid no attention to the news as I figured even if Gregory was still on the board at pick #9, he wouldn't factor into the Giants plans anyway as he is more of a 3-4 OLB. Then I started watching some tape (one in particular which I linked below) and came away with a different impression than what I had been given by most talking heads.
1. He played with his hand in the dirt quite a bit. What jumped out to me was that this guy is far more than a line him up on the edge and turn him lose. He is disciplined, plays with good leverage, reads the play, and is rarely out of position. In the video below, the guy reviewing film makes the point that 73% of the time, Gregory was being asked to read the tackle, prior to rushing. Basically, he wasn't just keying on the QB, he was playing the run or read option first.
2. He has a high motor. Routinely chases plays, runs RBs down, and doesn't stop moving his feet. Watch him chase down Mich St's Langford at the 13:00 mark.
3. He is very strong. Physically dominant at the point of attack. Good run defender.
4. He isn't just finesse moves. Watch him bull rush Ereck Flowers at the 8:40 mark. I tihnk most would agree that Ereck Flowers is one hard man to bull rush.
5. He may be 240, but he uses his 6'6" frame to his advantage. He is very good with his arms and hands, and knows how to use leverage. He gets extremely low for a 6'5" guy.
6. He has the ability to put on more weight if needed. My biggest knock on him has been his weight, but as pointed out to me by other BBIers weeks ago, he's 22 and could add 15 lbs. My apologies to those guys, since I didn't listen to you then.
7. As the video states, it's hard to find a hole in his game. He has it all, length, strength, power, finesse, high motor, football IQ. True IQ might be in question.
So the question to the BBI brain trust is: Is Randy Gregory a franchise changing defensive player? Some think he is. To me the skill is there, the motor is there, the on the field results are there, and the upside is there. The question remains an off the field question.
I thought the Giants were right to part ways with Will Hill. I am no fan of marijuana use (or any drug use for that matter) and I will never be on the side of legalization. That being said, my issue with Will Hill was more one of trust. The Giants gave him a second chance by bringing him in and then a 3rd chance after his initial suspension. He betrayed their trust by violating the policy...again. The Giants had no choice, and I completely agree with the way they handled it. I'm all for giving second chances. It's Easter, everyone can have a shot at redemption. But a player needs to appreciate the chance a multi-million dollar organization takes on him. Hill didn't respect that, so out the door he goes.
Gregory doesn't come into the league with a clean slate. He's basically asking for a team to give him a second chance. A hard thing to do when that comes attached to millions of dollars. Based on the tape, if I'm Reese I strong (STRONGLY) consider giving Gregory that chance if he is there at #9. Sure, it could blow up in my face, but if it doesn't...it could make Big Blue a feared defense again. Furthermore, I don't plan on picking in the top 10 again, any time soon. At least that's what I'm thinking.
My personal feelings aginst drug use are strong, but I will say I have far less an issue with what Gregory did than what Jameis Winston is accused of doing. I give Winston the benefit of the doubt because nothing has been "proven" yet, but I still wouldn't draft him, especially not in this current environment. I'd be more comfortable taking my chances on a pot smoker, hopefully a reformed pot smoker.
Just thinking out-loud after going over some very impressive tape and solid breakdown of Gregory. Completely agree with those who think this idea is crazy, as the risk is there, but I think this guy is the goods. He's not just an athlete, he's a football player. I also think he will be there at #9 as Fowler, Beasley, and Ray go before him.
Let's just say, I wouldn't throw the remote.
DE Randy Gregory Film Breakdown - (
New Window )
chris r : 6:40 pm : link : reply
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Link - ( New Window )
assuming he clears their background check
GiantNatty : 6:45 pm : link : reply
i would love the pick...
what troubled me....
Reb8thVA : 6:45 pm : link : reply
And drafted I don't have all the information, is that he seemed to be making excuses for his behavior rather than owning up to his error and being accountable. That is a trait that might manifest itself in other areas. Also it shows poor discipline and bad judgment. TC did not just fall off the turnip truck. If he is there and the Giants select him I am sure they did their due diligence in investigating him.
they usually like clean players
George from PA : 6:46 pm : link : reply
Gregory is not clean
Granted
Reb8thVA : 6:46 pm : link : reply
Not drafted
But I'd absolutely be a big fan of selecting him based on what he's done on the field. The more I watch him, the less I worry about his size. I like Beasley a hair better overall because of his burst, but Gregory looks like far more of a Giants-type prospect than Beasley.
If the Giants interview him and they feel good about him, I'd be all for it.
This is a guy that by his own admission was one drug test fail from being kicked out of Nebraska. Then there was the combine. He fails the test. Everyone knows when the combine is and he still fails. He says he hadn't smoked since the end of his season. Either he's telling the truth and he smoked out with Snoop Dogg and Willie Nelson or he lied which is just as big if not bigger of a problem.
Now on the field:
I see a guy that from one year to the next did not get better year over year. I had high hopes going into the season and I saw less of a product which to me is a problem. Yes he has good straight line speed and long arms but the weight is concerning. If he gets free, watch out but once a blocker locks on, run or pass, he's done. Watch the Wisconsin game where Melvin Gordon ran wild. Watch the Minnesota game where they ran right at him for the game winning TD. He's too square up top without much shoulder torque. He's also very narrow up top which makes me question if he can put on good weight while maintaining speed/athleticsm. When asked why he hasn't put on weight he said it was a stomach flu. For how long? Or was it the weed? Meanwhile Beasley managed to put on 20+ pounds while showing the same ability.
He reminds me too much of Dion Jordan. Similar size, speed, length and buzz which led to him being the #3 overall pick. They said it's top potential unrealized. 26 games later with only 1 start, Dolphins fans are still waiting and all they have to show for it are 3 sacks. Is that what we want with are first top 10 pick in over a decade??? Pass, move on and don't look back. We CANNOT afford to take a huge risk on this pick, especially one who's bust potential is as high as he his POTENTIALLY right now.
Hunter is a better run defender although his pass rush needs work. However he's relentless with similar speed and I think will put on good weight. He reportedly takes well to coaching.
Riddick (6'6", 244) is a FCS transfer who had one more year of eligibility while he attended grad school. He was a FCS All American and in one year in the Big 12 he was the defensive newcomer of the year with more TFL's than Gregory despite playing out of position as a 3-4 DE. He essentially has the same workout numbers as Gregory but did so with more weight, good weight he's added since the end of the season and another person who I believe has the ability to put on more. Clean background too.
Most importantly, we won't have to waste a 1st rd pick to get either.
Could be yes to both...but the risk on this guy is high for a top ten pick we can't afford to get wrong.
So unless someone with better expertise on the subject can say otherwise, I'm gonna assume he's lying. The irony of him is that his play on the field demonstrates maturity and coachability, whereas his lying and failed drug tests represent the opposite.
My guess is that he will fail more drug tests down the road, but the Giants will be making the decision based on much closer inspection; so hopefully they see it differently than I do and it's not just wishful thinking on their part.
Some people think failing multiple marijuana tests doesn't eliminate him from being chosen with the #9 pick.
Some people think his failing marijuana tests make him too risky a choice for the #9 pick.
Good discussion with passionate argument on both sides.
To Gregory or Not To Gregory - ( New Window )
Some people think failing multiple marijuana tests doesn't eliminate him from being chosen with the #9 pick.
Some people think his failing marijuana tests make him too risky a choice for the #9 pick.
Good discussion with passionate argument on both sides. To Gregory or Not To Gregory - ( New Window )
Thanks Torag, I remember the thread, it was a very extensive and good discussion.
My real question for the group is mostly do you think his skillset is legit or not? Is he a franchise pass rusher. The tape says yes, the injury history and MJ issues says maybe not. Hard not to believe my eyes on this one.
Thanks coach, I find it interesting that despite his positive tests, very few doubt his ability.
Could you elaborate on what you see in him?
The sad thing is the pot smoker isn't going to give up an "escape drug" if he is denied weed, he is going to turn to booze as his go-to drug. And that's much worse for his health.
p.s.-- If the league really wanted to do something about all the incidences of violence against women, they would test for alcohol and not marijuana!
Quote:
In this draft. Spiderman agility length and freaky strong for his weight. This kid is the goods. The MJ stuff is the biggest question. he can easily add 20-20lbs to his frame.Top 5 pick easy if not for the MJ. I think it's between Peat, Cooper and Gregory for our pick at 9.
Thanks coach, I find it interesting that despite his positive tests, very few doubt his ability.
Could you elaborate on what you see in him?
I see the most technique advanced pass rusher In this draft. I also am impressed by his hand usage and strength at POA despite the weight. His frame can handle a few more pounds likely without losing too much quickness.
Love his natural football instinct and ability. I see a guy that has a much stronger feel for the game than Dupree.
Also see very fluid hips for a long, lean player. I think this kid is the best 4-3 DE in the draft and it's not really close.Also versatile enough to play a little OLB and not be exposed.
It doesn't matter whether the NFL policy on pot is worthwhile or moronic. All that matters is that it is the policy.
Top 3-4 prospect that drops a few spots due to MJ. Worked out well for Sapp and Moss. He can clean up his act and is willing to be mentored.
You can never trust a drug addict - ( New Window )
But I am not Reese, either...
Giants will do their homework on the pot stuff. If they feel he can kick the habit with proper guidance , they may not pass on his talent.
If the Giants trade down to around #20, he may be in play.
You want a 4-3 DE? The kid with the funny name from UCLA is the solution. He's a real 4-3 DE who can step in and start from day 1.
Gregory has excellent quickness. He's good with his hands too. However, in the NFL he will see a premier and much stronger athlete every week. And right now, he doesn't measure up. Teams will pound his skinny ass into the ground every game. For any 4-3 team, he's a part time player. You don't draft that type high in round 1.
The guy in the video also claimed Rutgers sent 3 guys his way? That's complete BS. I watched it all again this morning. NEB moved him around all game. On a few plays when RU was inside their own 10 and 20 they did max protect and had extra guys blocking on both sides.
Often in that game RU TE Tyler Kroft handled Gregory on his own with no problems. The FB Burton rocked him on a few plays.
The RU LT Lumpkin also handled him with no problem all game. Lumpkin is a very player. A legit NFL prospect at LT. At times he mauled Gregory including putting him on his back on a TD run to his side. In the NFL he will see better players every week.
He got some QB pressure when standing up on delayed blitz and when lining up inside over the G. He had one sack in the game when he was unblocked and untouched.
The other game I saw with Gregory was the bowl game vs USC. It was more of the same.
The Giants will take a close look at how Gregory matched up with NFL caliber OL. They can look at his 2013 games too when he lined up vs Schreff and other NFL types.
I believe they'll see a guy who is NOT the solution they want at DE. Right now he is either a situational pass rusher or a 3-4 LB.
Forget about round 1 with this guy. They won't consider it. I'd bet on him being there in round 2. Do you think they want a situational pass rusher with off the field problems at that price? I don't see it.
One more thing, Cosell saying Gregory is more explosive than Clowney is a really strange comment. They are 2 completely different athletes. Clowney has 30lbs on him. And even at the bigger size he posted better 10,20, 40 splits and more explosive jumps. The smaller Gregory may have some lateral quickness on Clowney but he sure isn't more explosive.
He pulled one snap from the RU game and said they sent 3 guys his way all game.
I just watched it. That's statement was not true.
When they were backed up they went max protect on a few occasions.
What the guy in this tape is suggesting is the coaches at Nebraska are idiots for not getting this player in the best pass rushing matchups. He is wrong. That is exactly what they did in every game.
In 2013 vs Iowa, do you think they left him lined up over Schreff all game? No they didn't. They moved him all over to get matchups.
I continue to think that the DE/LB types in this draft are being overrated and have an incredibly high risk of being a bust. That applies to all the 1st round prospects in that positional class. The top-end talent in this draft is just so weak (Jameis is a slam dunk 1st player off the board????) that I am now thinking if Reese emerges with a solid starter from this 1st round, he will actually have done pretty well. In fact, I'm happy about the rumors the Giants are focussing on the top tier of OL. No Orlando Paces in that group, but they seem like a pretty talented group of players with a reasonable risk/reward ratio. Unlike all these DE types, all of whom have obvious issues.
2002: you have an exceptionally talented college tweener named Dwight Freeney who adds about 20 lbs to his weight pre-combine and demonstrates to NFL scouts that he can maintain his top-flight speed and quickness at that weight at the combine. Result: he is selected at the 11th spot by the Colts and goes on to have an outstanding career. Emphasis: 11th.
2015: You have a drug-test-failing tweener with talent like Gregory who has not shown now nor at the combine that he can maintin his speed & quickness at a weight that is in the conversation at #9. And Gregory was a legit top 10 selection prior to the drug test.
F**** this draft. It blows.
The stuff about RU blocking was not true so the guy's credibility takes a big hit there.
He also said the guy is a strong run defender and can anchor? That's more BS.
And then he implied Nebraska coaches were not putting him in the best situation to get sacks and we should not compare it with the other pass rushers in the draft. That's more BS but apparently you're buying based on the 10 snap tape.
Good for you.
I like the UCLA player better. He's got the long arms they like and he's good vs the run. He's my surprise pick for the Giants in round 1.
KWALL2 : 3:16 pm : link : reply
on any player and give you a BS conclusion you'll buy
Often in that game RU TE Tyler Kroft handled Gregory on his own with no problems. The FB Burton rocked him on a few plays.
The RU LT Lumpkin also handled him with no problem all game. Lumpkin is a very player. A legit NFL prospect at LT. At times he mauled Gregory including putting him on his back on a TD run to his side. In the NFL he will see better players every week.Often in that game RU TE Tyler Kroft handled Gregory on his own with no problems. The FB Burton rocked him on a few plays.
The RU LT Lumpkin also handled him with no problem all game. Lumpkin is a very player. A legit NFL prospect at LT. At times he mauled Gregory including putting him on his back on a TD run to his side. In the NFL he will see better players every week.
The reason I watched it again was the comment of Rutgers blocking him with 3 guys.
That did not happen.
He had one sack. It was a missed blocking assignment. He was over LT. Lumpkin blocked down. He ran untouched to Nova for a sack. He had one QB pressure when lined up over LG and again from LB on delayed blitz. He had one nice inside move on Lumpkin with some nice hand use. However, on that play QB threw it fast so he had no chance to get near him.
People are overrating his pass rushing skills. It isn't enough to keep him on the field as a 4-3 DE. My guess is he'll be drafted in round 2 or 3 by a 3-4 team.
Wonder where Odi resides on the NYG draft board ...
The Giants can get an offensive lineman at 40 who can start next year. Maybe even at 73. That position is very deep. If Gregory is there at 9 and the brass is satisfied with how his interview went, he will, in all likelihood be the pick on the basis of what he can do for the defense and probably the franchise.
Here's a best game/worst game kind of comparo:
http://draftbreakdown.com/video/randy-gregory-vs-wisconsin-2014/
http://draftbreakdown.com/video/randy-gregory-vs-miami-2014/