Tucker and Cosell discuss DE's

Ross Tucker and Greg Cosell discuss DE's

Another phenomenal job by Mighty Giants over at Big Blue Huddle in transcribing:

This is just exterior rushers, they will do interior defenders next week

Ross started out by suggesting that outside of QB, pass rusher's are perhaps the most important players on the team

Greg thinks it’s a pretty good pass rushing class and that 4 could go in the top 12-15 picks.  He is basing that assessment on just film study, and not off the field issues.  He thinks it’s a particularly good group this year, unlike last year.

Donte Fowler was the guy who the more tape he watched the more he stood out to him.  Thinks he could develop into a Justin Houston type player.  Thinks he could play 3-4 or 4-3.  Thinks he has a lot of explosive traits to work with for a man that size (6’ 2” or 3” 260).  Watching him move at the combine really opened his eyes as well.  After watching 5 or 6 games (the usual number of games he watches on each prospect) the more he liked him.
Ross asked Greg is there a clear number 2 or do they bunch up after that and Greg mentioned Randy Gregory and said he thinks he is a really talented kid.  Greg was really impressed by his flexibility and compared him to Clowney.  He said Clowney is the bigger man but that Gregory was the more flexible athlete.  Went on to say he has really good balance and body control and good movement flexibility (which is needed to rush the QB).   Ross agreed that those “gumby like” players are tough to block and Ross has no idea how some of those guys do it.   Ross then mentioned how people are concerned about Gregory’s weight.   Ross mentioned how he has talked to retired DE Jason Taylor and how Taylor told him he played at between 232 and 245 and often felt his best at 235.    Ross says he sometimes laughs at fan’s concerns about weight as fans don’t know the real weights behind what is listed.  Here was a potential Hall of Fame DE that played his best at 235 pounds (even though he was listed at 250+).  If you got good hands and can lock people out it’s not as much of a concern as people think it should be.  Greg agreed with Ross on this point.

Greg then addressed Shane Ray and Vic Beasley.  Greg described Ray as a Kamikaze player that plays with an unbelievable amount of competitiveness and a bit of nasty.  You can tell watching him that he doesn’t like getting beat and comes back stronger.  Ray is a quick twitch guy with natural explosive traits.   He looked bigger than his listed weight when you watched him on tape.  Greg thinks Ray could line up at DE.  Ray was often moved inside to rush against guards and he killed guards.  Ray has an explosive first step and he uses his hands well and he loves how he plays.  Ross chimed in about some of Ray’s bad numbers at his Pro Day.  Ross said he doesn’t know Ray’s ceiling but that at a minimum he could be a 6 – 9 sack guy and a lot of teams would take that.  Greg added that teams would have to factor in his extreme competitiveness.   Ross agreed and they both talked about Ray having the sort of motor and competitiveness you can’t develop.   Ross said guys don’t develop toughness or competitiveness or a motor, they either have it or they don’t.  Says guys don’t develop a work ethic after they get paid millions of guaranteed dollars.  Greg added that he has talked to many long time scouts who say you can make guys stronger but you can’t make them more athletic.  

Ross then went to Beasley who he has heard mentioned as possibly going to Jacksonville at three.  Greg said with Beasley you are hoping he could become Von Miller.  Greg said he is a quickness, speed, explosion pass rusher. Even though he came in at 245 he is a smaller guy.   His lower body looks like a RB and if you watch him on tape, that’s what he looks like a running back rushing the QB.  He is another guy that can bad the edge that has great hip and body flexibility.  He gets moved sometimes in the run game or if he is stopped on his pass rush. Greg feels he is not as strong as he needs to become but you can make guys stronger but you can’t teach the body flexibility.  With Vic you are dealing with high level flexibility and movement pass rusher.

Ross then tells Greg he heard a negative about Beasley but not Gregory, Fowler or Ray.  Greg countered by saying with Gregory there were too many times where Greg felt he was a beat late off the snap which could negate his speed/quickness advantage.  With Ray he didn’t see negatives on tape but mentioned his testing numbers and his 245 weight and wondered that since he mostly played DE he can do that in the NFL at 245.   Greg then came back to Beasley’s weakness and how he would hold up to the run in the NFL and would be start his career as a situational pass rusher.

Ross and Greg talked about how much tape to watch and Greg says his evaluation stops when he sees the same thing from a player over and over again against different types of opponents.  Greg loves to see good players going head to head like Flowers against Gregory where Flowers couldn’t block him.  Ross chimed in how he can’t see Flowers at LT and he is not sure what people that do are seeing.  

They then discussed Bud Dupree who Ross has heard might go in the top 15 picks.  Greg says he sees Dupree a little differently than others.  He doesn’t think Dupree is a natural or pure pass rusher but that he is incredibly athletic.  He compared Dupree to Jamie Collins  Ross goes back that he is a versatile guy that can do it all.   Greg doesn’t rule out that he could become a good pass rusher but he doesn’t think Dupree has the flexibility that marks the great pass rushers and seems to lack the explosiveness of a pass rusher.  Greg says Dupree won’t go in the top 10 or 12 if people see him the way he does.  

Ross then goes on to say that all the guys mentioned so far all seem to be rated as top picks and then there seems to be a drop off before you get to the next edge rusher.  In this group Ross mentions Eli Harold and Owamagbe Odighizuwa.  Ross asked out of the second tier guys if any of them stood out to Greg.  Greg said Owamagbe Odighizuwa is the most fascinating prospect in the draft to him.  He says Owamagbe Odighizuwa isn’t a top 10 -15 guy but that the athleticism is there.  He is not quite Ziggy Ansah but when you watch him you see a really good athlete with explosive movement traits.  He needs a lot of coaching and refinement but his hands were active and they were fast and heavy which is a positive for a defensive lineman.  You saw him flash speed to power transitions against guys who are going to become NFL tackles.   He mentioned how he got under Jake Fisher’s pads and moved him a couple of times.  Greg says he doesn’t know where he will be drafted because it will be based on what you hope he will become but he thought Owamagbe Odighizuwa was the most intriguing prospect of the next group.  

Ross then asked if there were any sleepers.  Greg mentionedHau'oli Kikaha who he thinks is a really natural pass rusher in terms of hand usage, bend and closing to the QB.  He is not a super twitchy athlete you are not going to watch him and go wow like you would a Vic Beasley but he plays with fanatical effort and determination.  He thinks he is ultimately a 3-4 outside LB.