Draft Chat with Colin of Great Blue North Draft Report

Colin,

First off thank you for doing this! What are your thoughts on Byron Jones and Geremy Davis out of UConn and their potential fit for the Giants.

what the likelihood is of there even being another team interested in moving up to the #9 slot. If Mariota is gone before #9, is there any chance another team would still want the Giants' slot and NY trading down?

I'd still like to see the Giants add a more athletic tight end to give Eli another type of threat in the passing game, but I know Coughlin will still expect them to block...

Can Tyler Kroft out of Rutgers be that guy? Do you think he has the tools to become an effective blocker if he could add some weight and muscle?

Regarding pass rushers, it seems Odi and Dupree are the only ones that fit the Giants protypical mold for the 4-3 defense we run.

A couple questions

1. Odds Odi is there at 40?

2. Any interest from the Giants in Dupree (would have to be at 9?)

3. Mid-round 4-3 defensive end pass rushers we should be keeping an eye on.

Thank you!

what is your take on Ereck Flowers and his chances to the Giants at 9? It appears he is rising up draft boards for his potential down the road, and ability to come in and play RT immediately for OL needy teams.

Colin. Thanks for doing this. Much appreciated.

What do you think of Mark Glowinski and Tyeler Davison as day three prospects? Who are your favorite sleeper prospects for the Giants?

Thanks.

A few questions:

Which projected first rounders do you see falling to the Giants in the second round? I have heard guys like Shaq Thompson, Landon Collins, TJ Clemmings all falling out of the first?


What are your thoughts on Robert Myers of Tennessee State? I love what I read about him. And what about my main man, Kwon Alexander? Any chance he falls to Day 3? I'd love to pick him up in the fourth round. I think he has great upside and would be an awesome WLB in the 4-3.

.

Loved what Ive seen of him even despite the knee injury. Would you take him in round 4 or 5? Would he fit the Giants?

1-If Gregory falls to 9 do you see the giants taking him?

2-What are three names you see being on the board @ 9 that you think the giants will strongley consider drafting?

Although comparing guys in the draft to established stars is usually pretty flawed, there are two DE's I've heard people compare to our own Jason Pierre-Paul, namely Danielle Hunter from LSU and Owamagbe Odighizuwa from UCLA. Do you see either of those two having that type of potential as an end with power and pass rushing skills?

which late round cornerbacks do you feel would make the best safety conversion prospects for the Giants?

1. OTs - Sherff - is he a G or RT? Peat - do you buy the soft label? Do you like Sambraillo as a swing OT early in his career?

2. DTs - If they go OT in Rd 1, and DT in Rd 2, who is on your short list for DTs in Rd 2? I think Michael Bennett fits well as a guy who will do well next to our heavier DTs. Your thoughts?

3. Slot CBs - I think Steven Nelson and Senquez Golson would be outstanding Rd 4 targets. Your thoughts on the position in the mid rounds of this draft?

DTs - BBI has the perception that tweeners are more vulnerable to fail with the NYG (i.e. Ray and others at the top of this draft). I think Ray is the kind of guy that would thrive w Spags. You?

Thoughts on Yale's Tyler Varga? Do you see him as a ruining back or fullback in this league?

Banger Safety Cody Prewitt or speedster CB Senquez Golson?

Do you view Shaq Thompson as anything but a WLB? Possibly a SS? I know Mike Mayock sees him as that.


In your opinion, are there any Safeties, assuming Collins is taken, that would be worth taking in the second round?

Afternoon guys: You'd think there was a draft in a couple of weeks or something. Shall try and keep my answers brief although in a draft with so many shades of gray (more than 50) it may hard! I will also try and answer all the questions so bear with me as I still don't type so good!

If Scherff, Collins, Peat and Flowers are all there at #9 in the 1st Round who do you believe the Giants will select, and which is really the best fit for their current O-Line and offensive scheme?

Do you believe Maxx Williams will be there at #40 when the Giants pick in the 2nd Round, and do you believe they would select him?

Could we see Gregory completely free fall in the draft due to his positive drug test at the combine?

the Giants have a real need at safety...

Aside from Collins, are there any you see in rounds 3-5 that could work in our system?

Guys like Jaquiski Tartt, Kurtis Drummond, or Adrian Amos maybe?

Bold Ruler: truth be told Mariota is not going to drop to #9 not with as many as a half dozen teams already talking about the possibility of moving up to #2 to get him. That said, I think it is possible that a number of teams picking in the teens (see Cleveland, Miami, Houston, KC and maybe even SF) would might veey well be interested in moving up to get Parker if the Giants didn't want him there (which may be one of the key $64K questions in this draft for the Giants). You might also see some interest in Waynes.

Kevin in CT: Doubt that Jones will be available in the second round for the Giants although they would have to be interested. Davis is an interesting guy you might even get in FA, but he's a decent athlete who wou;d give you some depth and help on specials. Love the Varga as he is a Canadian; nominally played FB in college but will be a RB in the pros who can run block and catch, although he is still more a compliemntary guy.

Peat's lack of hip flexibility, as well as his strange body type and lack of conditioning, really concern me. Do you see him as the top LT prospect in the class? And how do you view DJ Humphries' upside?

Siryessir: My guess if the Giants were looking for a TE (and my guess is they won't at least early) they'll be looking for someone who is first and foremost a guy who can run and stretch defenses and to be honest I don't see many like that in this draft, but I think Kroft is close; problem is my guess if he is healthy he's off the board before the Giants are prepared to take the position..

Starter material or not?

And of Donovan Smith, Havenstein and the Oklahoma OTs, who do you prefer?

I think the value at #9 will boil down to OT. I've heard NYG thinks very highly of Peat, we know they're interested in Flowers, but haven't heard Scherff's name as yet.

What do you think? Have you heard anything new on the OT prospects?

PEAT PEAT PEAT PEAT! (I kid, I kiiid).

Brandon and the DEs: There actually may be a better chance than people think that Odi is there at #40 because of health concerns; the Giants would be interested no doubt but if injury concerns have scared off other teams then they'd very likely pass too for at least a round. And personally I don't see Bud Dupree as an option at #9; he looks the part and is a very good athlete, but he's played mostly as an OLB where he was never all that physical or instinctive; sort of a point and go guy. In fact, its not a great year at all for 4-3 DEs but a couple of names to consider later on include Shaq Riddick of west Virginia and Ryan Russell of Purdue.

Ryan et al: I have never been an 'OL, OL, OL' guy when it comes to this or any other draft but my sense is that is the position the Giants have targeted for their top pick this year (although my sense also is that they'd take Cooper or White if either were available) and that the two guys who seem to be the most likely are La'el Collins and Flowers.

And just as an aside before I get too deep into it my believe is that if the Giants do in fact use an early pick on an OL, it will almost assuredly not be because they still have what appears to be a gaping hole at one of the OG slots. It also won’t be because they may need a replacement for LT Will Beatty in a year or two. As I have argued on several previous occasions this off-season, the Giants thinking on the OL appears to be evolving. Earlier in the Tom Coughlin era, the Giants’ offence had a max-protect philosophy such that almost always kept a couple of extra blockers (the RB and second TE) in to pass protect. What they were looking for in that scheme hard-working, physical types that didn’t necessarily need to be great athletes, because if they missed a block there was almost always someone behind them to cover. And you could usually find those in free agency or the middle rounds.

However, with the Giants now moving toward a more spread offence that will routinely put out 4, or even 5 receivers, what you need are smart, athletic types with at least some LT pass blocking ability right across the front. And that type of player is much harder to find outside the early rounds of the draft. In fact, one could make the case that the Giants thinking this year may very well be that because there really aren’t many prospects at the impact positions, perhaps with the exception of Cooper and maybe White, with true elite potential, that the time is perfect to add another solid athlete up front.

In that context I am not sure they have Scherff rated quite as highly as the draft-guru community in general in that he is dominating drive blocker but just isn't that good a pass blocker.

Acid: as noted above I am not sure the Giants will take a true OG at any point in this draft but a couple we like are Jarvis Harrison of A&M and WVU's Glowinski who is a very good athlete for 310-pounder. Davison on the other hand might give you soem versatile depth but could also struggle to make the team because of the numbers.

Is he worth a pick at 9?

Thanks.

Anakim: No need to get personal. I think there is a very good chance that Shaq T will be there in the second; he's being hurt by the fact that more than one team sees him as a SS, but there's no way he's worth a pick in the 40s at that position. The other guy in that perspective is Bernardrick McKinney who is a guy who I think Spags could find a role or two for. we are also hearing that DTs Goldman and Phillips have seen their stocks dip into that area.

Fantastic points on the OL and its evolution. Love the insight!

That said, if you could, please comment on the run aspect of the matter. I am of the opinion that the lack of push in the running game has been one of the biggest issues on offense. Last year they were only two teams averaging fewer yards per carry, yet the team was still top 10 in rushing attempts.

The offense may not be build on the run anymore, but it is clearly still a big part of what they do, and their pissing away so many offensive plays with ineffective runs has really hurt this offense the past few years. This is one area I feel they can make a big impact in terms of upgrading the offense.

Please share your thoughts.

Getting push up front in the running game so they can give their backs a chance to work.

Bob Snow et al: Just wanted to make the point it doesn't matter squat whether I think Gregory is worth the 9th pick (and I'd say there is a better than even chance (although not much more than even that he'll be there at #9) what matters what the Giants think of him and that I have no idea, although I see little evidence that they have done much of anything at all to check him out. In fact, haven't seen much evidence that they have paid much attention at all to any of the top defensive prospects. I don't doubt that he'd be worth the 9th pick for a team running a 3-4 but he's very scheme specific. And gambling that he could bulk up to 255-260 and keep that weight on to allow him to play as a 4-3 DE (he is not now and never will be a 4-3 OLB) is well a huge gamble because it appeaers he has really struggled to hold his weight in the 240s to date. .

In comment 12232656 Colin@gbn said:

Quote:

Anakim: No need to get personal. I think there is a very good chance that Shaq T will be there in the second; he's being hurt by the fact that more than one team sees him as a SS, but there's no way he's worth a pick in the 40s at that position. The other guy in that perspective is Bernardrick McKinney who is a guy who I think Spags could find a role or two for. we are also hearing that DTs Goldman and Phillips have seen their stocks dip into that area.

I'd love to get Goldman at #40. Not sure about Phillips. He had back surgery in 2013.

frank; Anakim: Interesting question Frank about the Ole Miss guys; really like them both; think that Prewitt is the better prospect but Golson would be the better fit in that the Giants have a couple of guys in Cooper and Behre they hope will fill the SS role whereas right now they really don't have any CB to play the slot. In fact this not a great year to be looking for safeties and I think the only S worth a #2 at this point might be Randall of ASU who isn't all that big or necessarily instinctive but is a very good athelet with excellent ball skills who will willingly come up and put a hat on people.

Benardrick McKinney seems to falling in some mocks and it seems to be just based on some bad interviews. Would be a guy available to the Giants in the 3rd round?

Are the Giants hiding their interest in Maxx Williams?

I like Golden out of Missouri. While Ray got the hype, Golden did a lot of the dirty work. Could be a poor man Justin Tuck. Do you know whether he is a possibly in round 2 or 3 for the Giants?

Semipro: Interesting question about the CB-S conversion; personally when I have no safeties at all I wouldn't be waiting to late on it and a couple of guys that might work late in the second day would Josh Shaw and Alex Carter.

Which two OL do you see them taking in rounds 1 & 2?

?

Pep22: all good questions; Scherff is one of the real wild cards for the Giants in this draft. If indeed there are looking at OL first and they have a higfh grade on scherff then he might be a no-brainer as, again at least as reflected in the draft-guru community, he is clearly the top-rated OL. However, the Giants don't use the draft-guru community consensus grades but use their own and I ma not convinced that Scherff will necessarily be graded that high as he just isn't all that solid a pass blocker as I noted above. Time will tell though.

You also raise a good question re Ray. No doubt that Spags would find some useful ways to get Ray into opposing team's backfields, but he is another guy who looks to be more a 3-4 guy who plays on;ly in one direction and in that sense is very scheme specific and one can't help but think one could get more from that early a pick. Personally I think Beasley is the more intriguing guy as he has the athleticism to be an effective 4-3 OLB who can be disruptive if unleashed into the backfield, but again your asking a guy to make a conversion to a position he's never played (and that the Giants haven't drafted since before half the guys on the board were born) and that's a huge gamble with the highest pck you have had in over a decade.

how important do you think this pick is for the Giants? Do you think they have to get this right and, if they do, it may determine where they finish this year.

To me, top 10 pick...he has to be a stud whether it be OL, DL or elsewhere? What do you think?

it's going to be Peat or Flowers. I'd probably take Waynes. Don't see much chance of a trade down, unless somebody wants to move up for Waynes, or maybe Parker.

Jon C; Yat et al; Fact is that one never knows for sure who the Giants are looking at until the picks are actually made, however, reading the tea leaves suggests that the tact on April 30th may be pretty similar to last year’s when the Giants wnet into the draft hoping to get one of WRs Watkins, Evans or Beckham with the OL Lewan and Martin. Its hardly an exact science, but historically with the Giants one could follow the money, or at least follow their senior execs out on the pro day (and related) trails, and more often than not they’ll lead you to the pick.

Indeed, perhaps the most telling aspect of the pre-draft process was the fact that at three of the four schools the Giants had senior execs at their respective pro days, the top prospect was an offensive lineman: Andrus Peat at Stanford, La‘el Collins at LSU and Ereck Flowers at Miami. The 4th, of course, was at Alabama where the best prospect was WR Amari Cooper, who one would figure is probably the guy the Giants would love to come away with on the 30th, although at this time it appears that the chances that he lasts until the 9th pick range in the slim to none range. Same for West Virginia WR Kevin White, the only other top prospect the Giants have had in to date for an on-site visit.

A couple of interesting sidelights, though, to the Giants attendance at the pro days of some of the top offensive linemen. First, the Giants do not appear to have sent anyone to the Iowa pro day which featured G/T Brandon Scherff, arguably the only offensive lineman with a top ten grade this year, at least according to the draft-guru community. All that may mean, of course, is that Giants already know all they need to know about Scherff. Its also possible, though, that the Giants don‘t necessarily have that high a grade on Scherff, who is a dominating drive blocker, but inconsistent pass protector (see below). Indeed, like Zach Martin, Scherff is a collegiate LT who is projected to be a better OG at the pro level; however, Martin was projected to OG last year largely because he simply lacked prototype length for an OT, whereas Scherff is being projected to OG largely because he just isn’t that good protecting the pocket. Bottom line, is that like Parker, we just don’t know how the Giants have Scherff rated. If they have him rated as top ten guy like most (although not all) of those in the draft-guru community, then one would think he’d almost be a no-brainer, if as expected he’s still there at #9. If he’s not, then well he’s not!

The other interesting aspect of the Giants OL pro day visits is the fact that none of the three offensive linemen they ostensibly went to see (and as a general rule the Giants don’t send their top execs to see second round or later prospects) are considered to be top ten prospects, again by draft guru community, although that has never necessarily slowed the Giants down in the past as they build their board based on their own grades.

In fact, one is tempted to wonder in that context if there might be some thought in that regard that if the likes of Cooper and White are off the board when the Giants are on the clock at #9 - and they don’t have a comparable grade on Parker - then they trade down several spots to where Collins, Peat or Flowers would be better value (again at least based on the common thinking in the draft-guru community.) The fly in the ointment with such a theory, though, is the Giants are extremely unlikely to have sent Reese, Ross and company out on the road at their busiest time of the year to check out a guy just in case there was a deal to be made.

Just as a follow-up I have never been a big Peat fan in that there is an awful lot of bad tape on him out there. At the same time, there is no question that the guy has as much upside as an OL this year and the Giants clearly have a pretty good grade on him otherwise its unlikely they would not have sent Ross all they across the country to see his pro day. Time will tell

Ha! Just kidding. Now answer Bold Ruler's question or I shall taunt you a second time.

great stuff!

Jeff et al: Absolutely I think Shelton has value at #9 and it would be fun to see him line up next Hankins and dare teams to run up the middle. at the same time, though; the issue as I see it is that in the Giants scheme he still may only be a 2-down player with limited pass rush ability and as such just may not have as much value as some other players on the board at that time. If the Giants did want to add another DT (and I am not sure its a lock that they do) there is going to be a ton of value in the second round at the position.

If he is still available with the 40th pick, what do you think?

No where man (you sound depressed but I guess after 6-10 we all have a right to be depressed). I doubt the Giants cluster pick along the OL this year because I think they are looking for a paricular kind of guy - smart and athletic - in their OL as opposed to just taking guys to just try and plug and play at certain positions. That said a very athletic kid like Ali Marpet might be an intriguing option as he has the special athleticism to to play all 4 OL positions (other than C). Might be a little rich at 40 but who was really expecting the Richburg pick there last year. Bottom line is that the Giants are going to take guys they like!

your input is much appreciated

What are your thoughts on P.J. Williams, CB, Florida State? How far do you think he might fall due to his off-field issues? Do you think the Giants would be interested in taking a chance on him?

can he help a nfl team from day 1

Hey Mike: Great to hear from you; we should make a point if getting together for a pop one of these days! Fact is that any time you have your highest pick in over decade you want to nail it especially with so many good players on the board. Plus I have been saying for a while that the real strength of this draft is the depth in rounds 2-3-4 so the opportunity is there to make some hay. At the same time, its still a draft which means its still a lottery which means everyone is going to hit some picks and everyone is going to miss some and who hits and who misses will be based largely on luck. And since I've been playing this game literally since the 1950s I'll be scouting 2016 whether the Giants hit or miss this year.

How do you think Flowers projects to the pro game right away and long term?

Is he a day 1 starter at Right Tackle or is his pass protection to shaky?

Can he be a long term solution at Left Tackle 2-3 years down the road?

If the Giants get a WR or pass rusher in the 1st, who are the day two targets at offensive line that you think they are interested in and/or fit your new mold of Giants offensive linemen?

Thanks again, you're the man!

I also wonder about a few of the next or third tier guys at certain positions like wide receivers, corner backs, linebackers and running backs. Imo, the giants always value potential at certain positions and unlike the others, I haven't seen a lot of discussion about the lower level prospects at these positions.

Who do you like for the Giants to look at from the draft at these positions?

Klaatu; Bold Ruler ... My apologies for missing that question twice. Hard not like Ryan in that he is a smart, instinctive guy who gives 110% on every okay (think Mark Herzlich on the outside)0, but he's limited athletically and likely isn't going to contribute much outside specials.

What's been the buzz about Randy Gregory? How far is he expected to fall?
p.s.-- and just in case you missed my earlier question, what are your thoughts on Maxx Williams?

time and insight. Great read for us.

Brandon: Truth is on never knows until you get the kid on the field if the Giants did end up with Flowers I suspect they put him in the mix at RT at the outset of camp and hopefully end up with their best 5 guys on the field when the season starts. And while he's not necessarily a great athlete it certainly would not be out of the question that someone like Flowers ultimately ends up at LT down the road. And I sometimes hate to start naming sleepers because there are just so may but a couple or three names to keep in mind: OT Doniel Gambrell of Notre Dame College; Oklahoma State SS Josh Furman (who doesn't get much love from scouts because he played as a 200-pound LB in college; Liberty FS Jacob Hagen; and West Georgia DT Tory Slater

Good to see you all over this like white on rice as usual!

You touched on Devante Parker earlier. Would you take him ahead of the OL prospects?

Latest buzz re Gregory is that he really isn't expected to drop all that much and if he does drop its more likely based on team needs and numbers than the dope stuff. I am actually kind of torn on Williams. He's got great hands and blocks well enough for a spread offense TE, but he's not a great athlete and I am just not sure he brings that much to the table that you'd use a second rounder on him if you already had a guy at the position you were relatively high on as the Giants reportedly are with Donnell.

Hey Al ... Its been way too long. I would be taking Parker over the OL in a heartbeat but I am not making the picks. As I said earlier the $64K question right now is what kind of grade the Giants actually have on Parker who we are hearing is now a top ten guy on many boards across the league. Time will tell!

As always great questions. I am sure we will be talking again sooner rather than later! Take care

I just learned a ton. Thanks Colin and BBI.

fantastic work once again!!! Thank you very much!!!

...thanks so much for all the insights. Very much appreciated.

(My guess is that the Giants are going to cluster draft the offensive line. Then, again, I've been crying for that for 4 years, so my viewpoint is about 100% wrong.)

Thanks for taking the time.

TOuting Parker as being just as good as White and Cooper all along.

theory on the Giant VP visits to the Pro days and makes a lot of sense. Thanks for taking the time.

Can't wait until La'el Collins is a Giant.

job....best pre-draft reading yet. Thanks.

General consensus seems to be:
Scherff is a roadgrader,
Peat a better pass blocker,maybe than a run blocker
Collins can do both well,
Flowers has the best POTENTIAL to be both.
The Giants priority will make the pick:
Get back to a solid run game and dominant OL,or
Stay finesse with a finesse LT that is in a pro style passing O, or
Have a versatile and adequate/good lineman, or
be patient and invest in what may be the best of the group 2=3 years from now, respectively.
Or wait to rd 2 because none float their boat > a D player they covet is there at 9 and has better talent and value.

Here are my final draft thoughts for rd1 as the cluster they will be looking at will be:

Beasley/Gregory - Pass Rush
Parker - WR
Waynes - CB
Flowers - OT
Brown - DT [who may also be considered as pass rush potential]

The other possibility is a trade down. I think if Parker is on the board, teams will be calling. And I think that opens a trade down to 12 or 13.

We only know what we read. Based on that I think the choice will come down to:
Beasley/Gregory/Ray - Pass Rush they may not be there
Parker - WR (Cooper or White not likely to be there)
Waynes - CB
Flowers - OT (Sherff, Collins, Peat are possible)
Brown - DT [Shelton is possible)

My hope would be for the best OL not named Peat unless someone drops.

myself falling more and more into the La'el Collins camp. Hugely successful in the toughest conference in the game. Team captain, hard worker, mean as hell, and fills a big need. Would probably slot into RT day one and move Pugh inside.