i caught just the tail end of a conversation on MLB network the other day with Tom Verducci(sp) Chris Russo, Harold Reynolds and John Smoltz
They discussed how offense is significantly down. Comebacks after the 6th inning almost do not happen. verducci had a stat to back up the lack of comebacks and compared it to the early 1900s. They are comparing the offense in baseball now to what it was in the dead ball period. They cited reasons like all the relief specialists we have and how every reliever is now throwing 95+ facing just a handful of hitters until the next specialist comes in. Smoltz said managers are not concerned with burning out the arms in the pen because unlike in years past, now you lose a guy throwing 95 there are guys in your farm system throwing 95+ which never happened before. Verducci said last year in AAA 50 something relievers clocked in at 100 which is an astounding number. careers are shorter, more tommy john than ever before as the emphasis has gone from controlling and perfecting a few pitches to "how fast can you throw this ball 60 feet 6 inches."
They had a couple of interesting ideas. I cannot recall who said what but here are their collective thoughts
1. Lower the mound
2. A relief pitcher must face a min of 2 hitters
3. on a 25 man roster limit the number of pitchers a team can carry which would eliminate a lot of pitching changes
4. Instead of moving the fences in(citi field) move them back and create larger ballparks which will make for more exciting plays. Emphasis back on defense and fundamental.
5. Eliminate the shift. 2 guys on each side of 2nd base
Interesting to ponder. I have to agree that baseball has become really difficult to watch past the 6th when managers treat their pen like a kid in a candy store. After 1 out another pitching change means another commercial.
thought it was interesting and worthy of a discussion.
The shift is an aesthetic abomination more than anything else.
Pitching, defense, base running, timely hitting... To me that's baseball.
I dont want to tinker with the baseball rule book too much like changing the shift rule or relievers facing 2 batters
Pitching, defense, base running, timely hitting... To me that's baseball.
I like pitching duels, but there's a difference between watching two staff aces duel it out for seven innings of 1-1 ball and watching a couple average pitchers and a slew of relievers combine for an interminable game of missed opportunities and poor situational hitting.
If you want to "solve" both problems, limit the number of pitchers you can carry on a roster. It'll force managers into more decisions and likely result in fewer pitching changes.
No one mentions steroids though? Guys came in before and through hard, although there are more now and more TJ surgeries.
More kids play all year...seeing that in lots of kids sports.
But if guys like Tex, Ortiz, etc keep pulling the fucking ball - well, then they get what they deserve...
But if guys like Tex, Ortiz, etc keep pulling the fucking ball - well, then they get what they deserve...
This X one million.
I agree 100 million percent and that is what the game will become with guys throwing so hard and the shift becoming the norm. You watch a yankee game and it seems like 1/3 of our lineup is facing a shift. I dont want to see tex try and slap a ball down the left field line. If that is going to be the case. Lets get a bunch of juan pierres and call it a day
There's a balance to be struck. Mid-2000s bashball was too far to one side, and the new dead ball era is too far to the other side.
But if guys like Tex, Ortiz, etc keep pulling the fucking ball - well, then they get what they deserve...
My man, well put.
One thing I would say is that it wouldn't surprise me if the MLB tampered with baseballs again. There's about a 99.7% chance that the MLB tampered with baseballs around '94 and kept them like that for the next decade plus as power stats exploded. No doubt in my mind that juiced baseballs played a bigger role in the stupid power numbers than juiced players. One of the reasons why Selig absolutely disgusted me as a Commish.
Maybe they played around with the balls a few years back to diminish the power game?
The low-strike and deeper bullpens have both been mentioned, I think they both play a big role.
2000: .790 OPS vs. SP --- .766 OPS vs. RP
2015: .726 OPS vs. SP --- .636 OPS vs. RP
Hitters can't touch relief pitchers for the most part these days. There's a huge difference between how they perform vs. starters and relievers. Whereas at the peak of the roids era in '00, the difference wasn't nearly as large.
But if guys like Tex, Ortiz, etc keep pulling the fucking ball - well, then they get what they deserve...
It actually looks like more guys are managing to hit the other way and beat the shift so far this season. Russell Martin did so against the Yanks last week, and Brian McCann even hit a hard grounder through the open left side against Toronto over the weekend
But if guys like Tex, Ortiz, etc keep pulling the fucking ball - well, then they get what they deserve...
Agree. Be a hitter. Guys like Texiera and Ortiz should be able to crush an outer half strike to the gap in left center for a double instead of pulling it for a feeble tapper to the 2nd baseman.
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You know what will eliminate the shift? Guys learning how to hit to all fields. At least SOME of the time. Or you know, once every 10 at-bats, maybe?
But if guys like Tex, Ortiz, etc keep pulling the fucking ball - well, then they get what they deserve...
It actually looks like more guys are managing to hit the other way and beat the shift so far this season. Russell Martin did so against the Yanks last week, and Brian McCann even hit a hard grounder through the open left side against Toronto over the weekend
A couple of examples does not a trend make...
2 on each side of the infield and watch how much better the game is. Watching a 2nd baseman catch a line drive in short right field is horrible
No, the power hitters are neutering themselves. They are ML hitters, for fuck's sake - they can take an outside pitch and drill a line drive into the gap in LF. Little leaguers can do it, I would think they can...
Because it's so simple to completely reinvent your swing as a veteran major leaguer, right? Piece of cake.
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the shift would be meaningless. If they were power hitters they would be hitting long fly balls and line drives. Step into that outside pitch and use the power alleys.
Because it's so simple to completely reinvent your swing as a veteran major leaguer, right? Piece of cake.
Greg, if you read my 3:10 post, I said that there is a transition going on. And yes, a great hitter will adjust. But most aren't. And some, like Texiera, are clearly on the downside of their careers. The next wave of players will be schooled to drive the ball to all fields, not to try and jack homers at every at bat. The game goes in cycles.
Tex is an interesting case though. He wasn't always a dead pull hitter in his earlier stops. I think he got homer happy with that short porch at the new Stadium to his detriment. He was consistently .280 to .310 prior to joining the Yankees.
The shift is an aesthetic abomination more than anything else.
++1
More than anything else, this would make a huge difference. The low strike calls have to go.
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watching O'Day get calls on pitches that were shin high illustrated the problem. Raise the strike zone, not only will it limit the number of K's but by forcing pitchers to throw higher it will make for more and probably louder contact.
The shift is an aesthetic abomination more than anything else.
++1
More than anything else, this would make a huge difference. The low strike calls have to go.
Go back to the "bubble" Chest protector with the Umpire standing up behind the catcher. Changes the field of vision, brings back the higher strike.
It's up to the hitters to adjust now.
Those poor, poor hitters; the strike zone is no longer the size of a pea, the steroids were outlawed and fielders are positioning themselves where they keep hitting the ball.
Waaaaah!
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the shift would be meaningless. If they were power hitters they would be hitting long fly balls and line drives. Step into that outside pitch and use the power alleys.
Because it's so simple to completely reinvent your swing as a veteran major leaguer, right? Piece of cake.
Training yourself to hit outside pitches the other way isn't some massive swing revamp. Teixeira used to do it all the time, until he came here and decided he wanted to either hit everything into the seats or directly to the 2nd baseman.
It's up to the hitters to adjust now.
Those poor, poor hitters; the strike zone is no longer the size of a pea, the steroids were outlawed and fielders are positioning themselves where they keep hitting the ball.
Waaaaah!
So we wait ten years until a new generation of hitters has grown up slapping the ball to all fields and in the meantime we wonder why WS ratings are in the tank and the average age of a national audience for a baseball game is similar to retirement age.
Agreed
Football as it was played in the 1980's though, or earlier, is impossible to contemplate because of head injuries. And football's rule changes have made it more popular, not less.
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Because hitters kept hitting the ball in the same spot over and over - and over again. So, defenses got smarter, adjusted and put fielders where ball was going.
It's up to the hitters to adjust now.
Those poor, poor hitters; the strike zone is no longer the size of a pea, the steroids were outlawed and fielders are positioning themselves where they keep hitting the ball.
Waaaaah!
So we wait ten years until a new generation of hitters has grown up slapping the ball.
For crying out, these are professional, ML hitters - they can do more than "slap" the ball the other way.
Contrary to what some think, Tex, Ortiz and company are a bit more adept than bunting the ball down the 3rd base line.
I have an idea - so the poor hitters don't have to suffer the indignity of hitting weak grounders to 2B on outside pitches, let's ban the outside corner strike! That way, pitchers will be forced to throw in middle plate in, and guys can hit HR to the short porches (since they are so prevalent in many stadiums).
It's up to the hitters to adjust now.
Those poor, poor hitters; the strike zone is no longer the size of a pea, the steroids were outlawed and fielders are positioning themselves where they keep hitting the ball.
Waaaaah!
technology and spray charts and all that crap a computer can spew out has created the shift. Prior to that the only thing we saw was an extra infielder
So, if I'm understanding your theory correctly, they CAN do so but they won't....out of what, spite? A desire to fail?
If it's so damned easy, why haven't these simple adjustments been made by a whole lot of major league hitters?
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It should be up to players and managers to adjust. Incessant tweaking of the rules is what turned football into what it is today...a completely different sport than it used to be.
Football as it was played in the 1980's though, or earlier, is impossible to contemplate because of head injuries. And football's rule changes have made it more popular, not less.
This leads to a bigger question... Why is more scoring popular? I don't think watching roided out guys try to yank home runs out of band boxes to be better than a 2-1 game. What is more popular in society often tends to be the easier, less thoughtful (i.e. shittier) product.
I'd also submit that none of the changes in football have anything to do with safety and head injuries, and everything to do with increasing offense. Over recent years the NFL rule changes have only encourage more opportunities for unimpeded receivers to take vicious hits over the middle.
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For crying out, these are professional, ML hitters - they can do more than "slap" the ball the other way.
So, if I'm understanding your theory correctly, they CAN do so but they won't....out of what, spite? A desire to fail?
If it's so damned easy, why haven't these simple adjustments been made by a whole lot of major league hitters?
Greg, it's only a specific type of hitter that is being affected:
Slow (mostly), older (some), left-handed, extreme pull hitters.
That's it. No one else is being affected. How many right-handed hitters are being shifted against to this level?
As teams get analytical and the statistical data keeps telling their defenses to play certain side of the field when Player X is at the plate, the player has two choices now. Either keep hitting there and hope for the best, or make an adjustment.
But to ask MLB to bail this specific type hitter out by banning the shift I cannot go for.
Actually I don't think they are. Specifically Teix is still being pitched away. Would you risk missing middle-in to Teix, Beltran, Ortiz...
I know it seems to make sense to pitch inside, but the pitcher is hoping that the batter will try to pull and roll over on it and produce a weak grounder to the shift side.....
When this information leaked some years later, MLB franchise owners threw players under the bus and have now watched the number of series injuries skyrocket at a time where analytics are dominating the way the game is played.
Not an excellent chapter in the history of baseball.
Rules in baseball are like laws. Go back far enough and you'll eventually cycle 360 degrees.
There is very little purity and "purists" should be in favour of keeping the spirit of the game alive. Rules that fly in the face of this "game" should be looked at. Avoid reactive changes (i'm looking at you NFL) but don't be afraid to curtail abuses as they occur.