The Mannings and the Phillip River Trade

wanted to play for the Giants. It had nothing to do with SD. He had a big market team with a hard on for him and him and his family made a financial decision. If the Titans were picking 4th that year he would have went to SD with a smile on his face.

The chargers have been a good team since Phillip Rivers has been there. Cant always use SB as an argument.

I don't remember it that way. Maybe you're thinking of what they were thinking in San Diego

Wanted to play for the Giants because they had the best structure in place of the teams within striking distance of the #1 pick. Archie and Eli did not want Eli's career to turn into Archie's, surrounded by crap so no matter how well Eli did the team was going nowhere

In comment 12233932 Old Dirty Beckham said:

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wanted to play for the Giants. It had nothing to do with SD. He had a big market team with a hard on for him and him and his family made a financial decision. If the Titans were picking 4th that year he would have went to SD with a smile on his face. The chargers have been a good team since Phillip Rivers has been there. Cant always use SB as an argument.

Actually, Eli is on record as saying that it wasn't so much that he wanted to play for the Giants as much as it was he didn't want to play for San Diego. He was fortunate there was a team that wanted him badly enough to trade for him.

that San Diego robbed us blind, even among a lot of Giants fans. I certainly had my doubts. Worked out beautifully though.

In retrospect, it's amazing how people overreacted to the actual details of the transaction. A first rounder the following year was the only major resource the Giants gave up. By no means were they "giving up the farm."

I think it was one of those ESPN/NFL Network specials regarding the 2004 draft that was on a few weeks ago.

is on record as saying he didn't have a preference where to play - it just wasn't going to be SD - and that decision was driven by his Dad.

The Giants were a likely landing spot, but so was PITT.

It wasn't just about the #1 next year. It is the fact that we had an option to trade down to #7 where we would have had a good shot at Ben Roethlisberger who, at worst, was ranked comparably by many to Eli Manning

and at one point he asked Archie to come in just to try to take the heat off. It only made him look worse. I love Eli, and I'm glad he wound up here, but that week leading up to the draft was embarrassing. He absolutely came across as a cowardly spoiled brat whose dad and agent were fighting his battles for him. Water under the bridge at this point - he's proven to be a stand-up guy in every other circumstance.

In comment 12233961 Mike in NY said:

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It wasn't just about the #1 next year. It is the fact that we had an option to trade down to #7 where we would have had a good shot at Ben Roethlisberger who, at worst, was ranked comparably by many to Eli Manning

Good point, Mike. It was definitely a huge gamble on the Giants part.

is a very good NFL QB who has played hurt and had playoff success. It's not like the Chargers were fleeced in that trade, either.

This ended up working out for both sides within a reasonable tolerance range, IMO. A lot the bad blood can be attributed to some silly and childish posturing by the Chargers organization, which only serves to confirm Archie's misgivings about them.

"Keep Eli away from the Chargers" based on the state of the organization in 2004.

That's really all there was to it.

...after they announced the terms of the trade. I would say that the OP is correct about the conventional wisdom.

Anyway, check out this NFL films piece circa 2006, with Don Banks saying that AJ Smith "stole the giants blind."
Link - ( New Window )

was giving up on brees.

In comment 12233949 bceagle05 said:

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that San Diego robbed us blind, even among a lot of Giants fans. I certainly had my doubts. Worked out beautifully though. In retrospect, it's amazing how people overreacted to the actual details of the transaction. A first rounder the following year was the only major resource the Giants gave up. By no means were they "giving up the farm."

If Merriman had not gotten hurt, whether the Chargers got the better of the trade would still be up for debate. He was about a sack-per-game guy through 3 seasons. He was better than Ware (same draft) before he got hurt. And while technically they took Kaeding with the Giants pick, SD had back-to-back #3s and took Kaeding then Hardwick, so there is some reason to believe that the guy they would not have taken but for the trade was Hardwick. Hardwick was a probowler after year 3, then spent several seasons hurt, and then came back towards the end of his career and was SD's best OL. Plus they got Oben for our #5, and he was serviceable.

I dont think you can reduce a trade to "we won two super bowls and they didnt". We might have won zero, or 3 with Rivers + Merriman + Hardwick. SD might have won it all if guys stayed healthy, and we'd be talking about the trade that netted SD three pro bowlers (three pro bowlers).

if he got his strength naturally rather than through the use of roids.

use their leverage to make the same move. Drafted players have more power and leverage than they realize.

is A.J. Smith. The Chargers ownership can be faulted for allowing Smith to run the circus.

A.J. Smith used the situation as a way to leverage a deal. I don't believe A.J Smith had any interest in Eli, but he was going to get something from the Giants who very much wanted him. He continuted the spectacle after the draft by rattling the cages of the ignorant wing of the Chargers fan base.

In the end, A.J. Smith left without a trophy and Ernie Accorsi came out the bigger man.

In comment 12234083 BamaBlue said:

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is A.J. Smith. The Chargers ownership can be faulted for allowing Smith to run the circus. A.J. Smith used the situation as a way to leverage a deal. I don't believe A.J Smith had any interest in Eli, but he was going to get something from the Giants who very much wanted him. He continuted the spectacle after the draft by rattling the cages of the ignorant wing of the Chargers fan base. In the end, A.J. Smith left without a trophy and Ernie Accorsi came out the bigger man.

This sums it up, perfectly.

As usual, the Giants took the higher road, and came out on top.

In comment 12234079 Go Terps said:

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use their leverage to make the same move. Drafted players have more power and leverage than they realize.

I was gonna post the same exact thought. Think of how short NFL careers are versus how long teams can keep guys via restricted FA, franchise tags, etc. Your career may come and go without ever having any say in where you play.

The moment Eli took a knee in Arizona, Feb 3rd 08.

Ernie Accorsi made that trade b/c he believed Eli was the type of QB who can stare down the biggest moments. He did so that day...

Then he carried his completely average team to another one 4 years later.

There is nothing to discuss.

Fans hate when collegiate players try and dictate the draft. Doesn't bother me it's their right to try and use whatever leverage they have.

They don't get paid if they don't sign the contract and play. Unless you're suggesting they sign their rookie deals and then immediately hold out. That wouldn't go over too well.

then they obviously have a lot more but how often do they come along? There was Elway, Bo Jackson, Deion and that's basically it over the past 30+ years.

In comment 12233932 Old Dirty Beckham said:

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wanted to play for the Giants. It had nothing to do with SD. He had a big market team with a hard on for him and him and his family made a financial decision. If the Titans were picking 4th that year he would have went to SD with a smile on his face. The chargers have been a good team since Phillip Rivers has been there. Cant always use SB as an argument.

That's silly. Of course the Chargers had something to do with it. And the fact that they've been "a good team since Phillip Rivers" has no bearing on Eli/Archie's decision. Yes, the Giants being in the mix was a tremendous factor, but it's foolish to say the fact that the Chargers would've been home had "nothing to do with it."

and 2 of the best organizations in the league, the Giants and the Steelers, were both drafting high and looking for a new franchise QB...that's why Archie and Eli played it the way they did

Accorsi's book gave a great recap...I'm so glad he held firm on keeping Osi out of the deal

He came from a well-off family. A lot of players come from much less stable families and can't afford a protracted holdout unless, as RB mentioned, they have another sport they can play.

In comment 12234107 djm said:

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Fans hate when collegiate players try and dictate the draft. Doesn't bother me it's their right to try and use whatever leverage they have.

You're right, and I have no idea why fans take management's side on this. The draft is demeaning, and rookie wage scales a pretty ludicrous -- it's veterans and the league conspiring to take money out of the pockets of guys who dont get to vote on the CBA.

NHL players become free agents if they dont sign within 3 or 4 years of being drafted (draft is for 17-18 year old kids). When guys exercise this right, often college kids, you should see the bloody murder that fans cry on message boards. It's really crazy.

it's LA, from reports I've heard on NFL radio. He doesn't want to relocate to LA if the Chargers move the franchise. This reportedly is the reason he won't agree to a new contract.

In order words, Rivers problem is STABILITY or lack of it.

In comment 12234217 clatterbuck said:

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it's LA, from reports I've heard on NFL radio. He doesn't want to relocate to LA if the Chargers move the franchise. This reportedly is the reason he won't agree to a new contract.

Why would re-locating 2 hours north in the same state be a problem, but relocating to a different part of the country not be a problem?

In comment 12234245 Mr. Bungle said:

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In comment 12234217 clatterbuck said: Quote: it's LA, from reports I've heard on NFL radio. He doesn't want to relocate to LA if the Chargers move the franchise. This reportedly is the reason he won't agree to a new contract. Why would re-locating 2 hours north in the same state be a problem, but relocating to a different part of the country not be a problem?

Isn't it obvious? Rivers doesn't want to play for San Diego. LOL!

eli wanted the trade was that he and peyton didnt want to have to play each other post season and the chances of them both making it to the superbowl in the same year where slim

this is also the reason why petyon signed for denver over san fran when indy cut him it prob cost peyton a ring as with the team he would have had around him in san fran would have been a stronger one than the denver one he did make it with,particularly better on defence

Giants fans have the wrong reasons for the trade? Mr. Bungle nailed it.

Not to beat a dead horse, there were alot of people back then, myself included, who thought the Giants stole Eli in the trade and I think we were proven correct over the years. If you remember, San Diego also wanted Osi and didn't get him. Look at the haul that the Rams got from the Redskins in teh Griffin trade. In the year that Eli was drafted, the Bills gave up their #1 and next years #1 for JP Losman.

The Giants held onto ther #2 in a great draft year and drafted Snee. They gave up their 1 and a #3 that year. They had use of Eli for an entire year giving him valuable experience and the following year gave up a #1 and a %5 Forgetting how SD screwed up the picks, in my opinion, if someone thinks the Giants overpaid for Eli or that SD robbed them blind, they have alot to learn about football.

In comment 12234368 Chris in Philly said:

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Giants fans have the wrong reasons for the trade? Mr. Bungle nailed it.

Not bad for a guy with a tractor in his balls

Rothlesberger or Rivers could have won our two Super Bowls, then we made a bad trade. If you think only Eli coulda taken us to the promised land twice, you think it was a great trade. It's as simple as that.

is that nobody in the media EVER criticizes San Diego for letting Drew Brees go for absolutely nothing. Also Brees won the Saints first Superbowl and resurrected a franchise that had been awful for some time. Rivers still hasn't won a superbowl and likely never will. Rivers also had a very talented roster with the best RB in football in Tomlinson and best receiving TE in Gates.

Didn't breez have a horrible shoulder injury and his career was in doubt at the time?

Speaking of, NFL put up a video on their Youtube page for the Manning Day Trade.
Link - ( New Window )

best part, Rothlisberger saying "I don't want to go to San Diego either".

In comment 12234115 RB^2 said:

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They don't get paid if they don't sign the contract and play. Unless you're suggesting they sign their rookie deals and then immediately hold out. That wouldn't go over too well.

I'm not suggesting anything. I'm saying the players have a right to do whatever the hell they want to do. Whether it be a bluff of not signing or not signing at all, it's their right. Who the hell are we to say they can't do it? It's not like they are breaking any laws or sacred rules.

In comment 12235599 djm said:

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In comment 12234115 RB^2 said: Quote: They don't get paid if they don't sign the contract and play. Unless you're suggesting they sign their rookie deals and then immediately hold out. That wouldn't go over too well. I'm not suggesting anything. I'm saying the players have a right to do whatever the hell they want to do. Whether it be a bluff of not signing or not signing at all, it's their right. Who the hell are we to say they can't do it? It's not like they are breaking any laws or sacred rules.

Not really sure what you're arguing. I'm also not sure what you think a drafted player can accomplish by doing "whatever the hell" he wants.

who cares what the reasons were as to why Eli didn't want to play for the Chargers? Be it that he wanted NYG or hated the frickin chinese food in SD, Eli had his reasons. Maybe he hated the Chargers org but it doesn't matter. Eli didn't want to play there and did what he had to do to change things. IT's not illegal as a matter of fact we all do it. Everyone has the right to exercise whatever leeway they may have when offering their services.

We love to judge athletes but what makes them any different from us? Put yourself in the athlete's shoes...go back to age 13 and this athlete works morning, noon and night to get that collegiate scholarship or get accepted to the right college. He/she kicks more ass in College and puts himself in position to be highly coveted in the draft. Why shouldn't that player be able to at least flex a little muscle at where he goes? Wouldn't you want to? If you can impact where you go, you succeed. IF you're a guy like Jonny Football who fucks up throughout college you don't gain the same power before hand and the BRowns draft you. That's the breaks. If you're Eli and you craft a nearly perfect collegiate resume you at least have some power in your corner and can at least try to shake the earth a bit. That's how it should be.

In comment 12235616 RB^2 said:

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In comment 12235599 djm said: Quote: In comment 12234115 RB^2 said: Quote: They don't get paid if they don't sign the contract and play. Unless you're suggesting they sign their rookie deals and then immediately hold out. That wouldn't go over too well. I'm not suggesting anything. I'm saying the players have a right to do whatever the hell they want to do. Whether it be a bluff of not signing or not signing at all, it's their right. Who the hell are we to say they can't do it? It's not like they are breaking any laws or sacred rules. Not really sure what you're arguing. I'm also not sure what you think a drafted player can accomplish by doing "whatever the hell" he wants.

Dude forget it...i'm saying players can try and dictate where they are drafted. If it blows up in their face so be it. If it works like it did for Elway, Eli and a few others so be it. It's not illegal or immoral.

In comment 12235651 djm said:

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In comment 12235616 RB^2 said: Quote: In comment 12235599 djm said: Quote: In comment 12234115 RB^2 said: Quote: They don't get paid if they don't sign the contract and play. Unless you're suggesting they sign their rookie deals and then immediately hold out. That wouldn't go over too well. I'm not suggesting anything. I'm saying the players have a right to do whatever the hell they want to do. Whether it be a bluff of not signing or not signing at all, it's their right. Who the hell are we to say they can't do it? It's not like they are breaking any laws or sacred rules. Not really sure what you're arguing. I'm also not sure what you think a drafted player can accomplish by doing "whatever the hell" he wants. Dude forget it...i'm saying players can try and dictate where they are drafted. If it blows up in their face so be it. If it works like it did for Elway, Eli and a few others so be it. It's not illegal or immoral.

I have nothing against players using whatever leverage they have to influence their career prospects. I just don't think drafted players have that much leverage save for a few unique exceptions (Elway, Eli).

if I said drafted in my posts I meant before being drafted.

If anything post draft the player is fucked. I'd flex muscle before hand for that exact reason.

if I said drafted in my posts I meant before being drafted.

If anything post draft the player is fucked. I'd flex muscle before hand for that exact reason.

Sorry if I was confusing. I do that...

I should be in timeout now.