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(CNN)Some supervisors at the Tulsa County Sheriff's Office were told to forge Robert Bates' training records, and three who refused were reassigned to less desirable duties, the Tulsa World reported. Bates' training has come under scrutiny since the 73-year-old volunteer deputy killed Eric Harris on April 2. Bates claims he meant to use his Taser, but accidentally fired his handgun instead. Dylan Goforth, one of the two Tulsa World reporters on the story, said the paper starting hearing "almost immediately" from different sources that Bates' training records had been falsified. |
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Additionally, Sheriff Stanley Glanz told a Tulsa radio station this week that Bates had been certified to use three weapons, including a revolver he fired at Harris. However, Glanz said the Sheriff’s Office has not been able to find the paperwork on those certifications. The sheriff’s deputy that certified Bates has moved on to work for the Secret Service, Glanz said during the radio interview. “We can’t find the records that she supposedly turned in,” Glanz said. “So we are going to talk to her to find out if for sure he’s been qualified with those (weapons).” |
It just seems a recipe for disaster, both for him and the public.
Is this common practice in NJ/NY?
2nd amendment wouldn't have anything to do with someone if he was on duty. Seems like a liability issue.
That said I don't know what his capacity was at the time of the incident.
It's not about his right's. It's a liability issue. Right now the guy is going to have a bunch of legal issues to say the least. But because he was working/volunteering for Tulsa, they now face liability issues as well. It just sounds stupid to put a volunteer out on the streets armed. They can't possibly be as well trained as a average cop.
1) How did that old fucker catch up to the suspect who was running?
2) Where were the real cops ?
Attorneys representing the Harris family said there are stark differences between the two devices.
One held up a small black .357 revolver, followed by a mostly bright yellow Taser that was noticeably larger than the gun.
"There's no way an officer can get this confused with this," said one of the attorneys from the law firm of Smolen, Smolen & Roytman.
Taser's X26 model comes in different designs. Some are mostly yellow, while others are mostly black with a yellow panel in the middle. But all appear to be larger than Smith & Wesson .357 five-shot revolvers.
Bates was carrying a revolver, not a pistol that might have a faint resemblence and feel of a taser. I'm not what you would call a gun guy, but the difference it seems to me should have been stark and immediate ... meaning before the trigger was pulled.
The difference in weapons - ( New Window )
Attorneys representing the Harris family said there are stark differences between the two devices.
One held up a small black .357 revolver, followed by a mostly bright yellow Taser that was noticeably larger than the gun.
"There's no way an officer can get this confused with this," said one of the attorneys from the law firm of Smolen, Smolen & Roytman.
Taser's X26 model comes in different designs. Some are mostly yellow, while others are mostly black with a yellow panel in the middle. But all appear to be larger than Smith & Wesson .357 five-shot revolvers.
Bates was carrying a revolver, not a pistol that might have a faint resemblence and feel of a taser. I'm not what you would call a gun guy, but the difference it seems to me should have been stark and immediate ... meaning before the trigger was pulled. The difference in weapons - ( New Window )
To piggyback on this a bit, what bothers me is that you not only have a 'volunteer' running down potentially armed criminals through the streets of the city (I can only imagine the outcry if he 'accidentally' shot a kid) but how can you allow a person who doesn't know the difference between the armaments on himself to be armed?
This pic is a sample of S&W .357 magnum 5 shot revolvers. The link will show the rest.
S&W .357 magnum 5 shot - ( New Window )
But this guy is just a stupid mother f'ng fool who has no business carrying a weapon regardless of his age. His age actually disguised how stupid he is, and now someone is dead.
If you told me a 73 yer old who was a career police officer I might agree. But some 73 year old who spent his life as an insurance executive with no on the street background? No way.
From the reports ...
It was a "Violent Crimes Task Force" and
During a briefing hours before the shooting, Bates said he was informed that Harris was “a bad son of a b----” who had gang affiliations. Deputies in attendance were told Harris was known to carry a gun and to consider him armed and dangerous.
Why in world was he there?
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There are plenty of guys that age with faculties and talents to handle this work.
If you told me a 73 yer old who was a career police officer I might agree. But some 73 year old who spent his life as an insurance executive with no on the street background? No way.
From the reports ...
It was a "Violent Crimes Task Force" and
During a briefing hours before the shooting, Bates said he was informed that Harris was “a bad son of a b----” who had gang affiliations. Deputies in attendance were told Harris was known to carry a gun and to consider him armed and dangerous.
Why in world was he there?
Because he was a cop groupie with the money to indulge his fascination. He "paid to play", purchasing at least five vehicles and a special fingerprinting machine for the task force he was assigned to.
This is incredibly cut and dry to me: a citizen used money to curry favor with the police. Someone is now dead because a clearly unqualified person was pretty much posing as a cop. If they want to use auxiliary officers let them write tickets and act as security at town events, don't let them carry guns and put them on a violent crime task force, it's a recipe for disaster. Why someone had to die to figure that out is beyond me.
The witness list is attached to a second-degree manslaughter charge filed Tuesday against Robert Bates, a reserve deputy who said he mistook his gun for a Taser when he shot Eric Harris, who was on the ground and unarmed.
In the video, Harris can be heard saying, “I’m losing my breath,” to which a deputy replies, “F- — your breath.”
The deputy who made that statement to Harris after he had been shot is Joseph Byars. Deputy Michael Huckeby is shown in the video kneeling on Harris’ head as a deputy yells at Harris, “You shouldn’t have ran,” and “Shut the f- — up.”
Because the deputies’ faces are obscured in the video, it is difficult to tell who made those statements.
After Harris was shot, he repeatedly told the deputies he had been shot — yelling, “He shot me!” — and blood could be seen trickling down his outstretched right arm.
I added the emphasis
read more - ( New Window )
Look at the first post. Seems like maybe someone did want to go down the forge route and got push back.
He got scared or was ramped up on adrenaline in a He or me situation and chose to fire.
this is one of those cases where you try to reach a $ settlement early.
and this could possibly turn into a criminal investigation beyond the shooting (e.g., falsifying government records).
WTF were they thinking?
Link - ( New Window )
this is one of those cases where you try to reach a $ settlement early.
and this could possibly turn into a criminal investigation beyond the shooting (e.g., falsifying government records).
WTF were they thinking?
Thanks for the trucks Fake Deputy Bates!!!
He got scared or was ramped up on adrenaline in a He or me situation and chose to fire.
Absolutely agree. He was absolutely unprepared and lacked the training to be in a situation like that. Even amped up on adrenaline I don't know how this happens. I've held that exact model .357 in my hands plenty over the years and I'll never understand how he thought he was holding a taser.
In a statement that the 73-year-old reserve deputy gave the sheriff's office following the fatal shooting of Eric Harris during an undercover operation on April 2, Bates noted he had taken "active shooter training" from the Maricopa County Sheriff's Office.
Lisa Allen, chief media relations office for the sheriff's office there, said they had no record of Bates attending their training.In fact, Allen said, that training is only available to members of the Maricopa County Sheriff's Office, meaning Bates would not have been eligible. The class, Allen said, has only been offered three times.
"We don't allow out-of-state people to take the class," she said. "I'm only surmising, and I can't confirm this because this would not have been our class, but our active shooter instructor did travel to Dallas once to teach a class.
"Maybe he took that class and is saying he took it through us, but again, that would not have been our class, so we have no way to verify if he attended it or not."
In Bates’ seven-page statement to Tulsa County sheriff’s investigators, obtained by the World on Wednesday, the reserve deputy states he previously attended a five-day homicide investigation school in Dallas and received “active shooter response training” by the Maricopa County Sheriff’s Office.
Link - ( New Window )
Yes. I believed Mehserle because, watching the video, he looks stunned after the shooting. Doesn't absolve him, but I do believe it was a tragic mistake. What I wonder, in this case, is if this geezer took his cues from that case - IOW, he went into the situation prepared to use the taser excuse if he shot someone.