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NFT: Deputy who shot a suspect by 'mistake' records falsified?

sphinx : 4/16/2015 9:27 am
Quote:
(CNN)Some supervisors at the Tulsa County Sheriff's Office were told to forge Robert Bates' training records, and three who refused were reassigned to less desirable duties, the Tulsa World reported.

Bates' training has come under scrutiny since the 73-year-old volunteer deputy killed Eric Harris on April 2. Bates claims he meant to use his Taser, but accidentally fired his handgun instead.

Dylan Goforth, one of the two Tulsa World reporters on the story, said the paper starting hearing "almost immediately" from different sources that Bates' training records had been falsified.

LINK to the rest of the CNN article

Quote:
Additionally, Sheriff Stanley Glanz told a Tulsa radio station this week that Bates had been certified to use three weapons, including a revolver he fired at Harris. However, Glanz said the Sheriff’s Office has not been able to find the paperwork on those certifications.

The sheriff’s deputy that certified Bates has moved on to work for the Secret Service, Glanz said during the radio interview.

“We can’t find the records that she supposedly turned in,” Glanz said. “So we are going to talk to her to find out if for sure he’s been qualified with those (weapons).”

LINK to the Tulsa World article referenced by CNN

I keep picturing  
Headhunter : 4/16/2015 9:32 am : link
Gomer Pyle chasing and yelling " Citizen's Arrest" "Citizen's Arrest" or Barney Fife putting his 1 bullet in his gun
I picture a poor guy getting killed...  
BCD : 4/16/2015 10:01 am : link
over some BS and his family having to deal with it.
Apparently, the person who moved on the the SS is not  
Bill in UT : 4/16/2015 10:14 am : link
Deputy Bates but some woman who used to handle clerical records at the police dept.
This is why you can't have old people around  
Bill in UT : 4/16/2015 10:16 am : link
The think they're stepping on the brake and it's the gas pedal, they think they're grabbing the taser and it's the gun
I can't picture why a volunteer is allowed to carry a gun.  
therealmf : 4/16/2015 10:21 am : link
Also, why would a volunteer be used in a role that a gun would be needed. Not to mention that he is 73.

It just seems a recipe for disaster, both for him and the public.

Is this common practice in NJ/NY?
What does his volunteer  
pjcas18 : 4/16/2015 10:23 am : link
status have to do with the 2nd amendment right to bear arms?
RE: What does his volunteer  
schabadoo : 4/16/2015 10:28 am : link
In comment 12235638 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
status have to do with the 2nd amendment right to bear arms?


2nd amendment wouldn't have anything to do with someone if he was on duty. Seems like a liability issue.

That said I don't know what his capacity was at the time of the incident.
RE: What does his volunteer  
therealmf : 4/16/2015 10:43 am : link
In comment 12235638 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
status have to do with the 2nd amendment right to bear arms?


It's not about his right's. It's a liability issue. Right now the guy is going to have a bunch of legal issues to say the least. But because he was working/volunteering for Tulsa, they now face liability issues as well. It just sounds stupid to put a volunteer out on the streets armed. They can't possibly be as well trained as a average cop.

What I don't get and maybe someone could clarify  
Headhunter : 4/16/2015 10:44 am : link
from the video it seems that he is the first guy to get to the suspect and yells to get down,

1) How did that old fucker catch up to the suspect who was running?

2) Where were the real cops ?
From 'The difference in weapons'  
sphinx : 4/16/2015 11:13 am : link
Bates was carrying his personal gun, a Smith & Wesson .357 five-shot revolver, and a Model X26 Taser, he said in his statement to investigators.

Attorneys representing the Harris family said there are stark differences between the two devices.

One held up a small black .357 revolver, followed by a mostly bright yellow Taser that was noticeably larger than the gun.

"There's no way an officer can get this confused with this," said one of the attorneys from the law firm of Smolen, Smolen & Roytman.

Taser's X26 model comes in different designs. Some are mostly yellow, while others are mostly black with a yellow panel in the middle. But all appear to be larger than Smith & Wesson .357 five-shot revolvers.


Bates was carrying a revolver, not a pistol that might have a faint resemblence and feel of a taser. I'm not what you would call a gun guy, but the difference it seems to me should have been stark and immediate ... meaning before the trigger was pulled.

The difference in weapons - ( New Window )
RE: From 'The difference in weapons'  
T-Bone : 4/16/2015 11:25 am : link
In comment 12235730 sphinx said:
Quote:
Bates was carrying his personal gun, a Smith & Wesson .357 five-shot revolver, and a Model X26 Taser, he said in his statement to investigators.

Attorneys representing the Harris family said there are stark differences between the two devices.

One held up a small black .357 revolver, followed by a mostly bright yellow Taser that was noticeably larger than the gun.

"There's no way an officer can get this confused with this," said one of the attorneys from the law firm of Smolen, Smolen & Roytman.

Taser's X26 model comes in different designs. Some are mostly yellow, while others are mostly black with a yellow panel in the middle. But all appear to be larger than Smith & Wesson .357 five-shot revolvers.

Bates was carrying a revolver, not a pistol that might have a faint resemblence and feel of a taser. I'm not what you would call a gun guy, but the difference it seems to me should have been stark and immediate ... meaning before the trigger was pulled. The difference in weapons - ( New Window )


To piggyback on this a bit, what bothers me is that you not only have a 'volunteer' running down potentially armed criminals through the streets of the city (I can only imagine the outcry if he 'accidentally' shot a kid) but how can you allow a person who doesn't know the difference between the armaments on himself to be armed?
Comparison  
sphinx : 4/16/2015 11:28 am : link


This pic is a sample of S&W .357 magnum 5 shot revolvers. The link will show the rest.

S&W .357 magnum 5 shot - ( New Window )
that sheriff needs to at the very least get his ass fired  
Greg from LI : 4/16/2015 11:34 am : link
This guy was some crony of his who donated a lot of money to the sheriff's election fund. He had no business being in that situation. I actually can believe he mistakenly thought he was firing the taser because he's a doddering old fool with very little law enforcement training who had no idea what he was doing.
Age is a distraction  
WideRight : 4/16/2015 11:39 am : link
There are plenty of guys that age with faculties and talents to handle this work.

But this guy is just a stupid mother f'ng fool who has no business carrying a weapon regardless of his age. His age actually disguised how stupid he is, and now someone is dead.
Headhunter  
JerseyCityJoe : 4/16/2015 11:46 am : link
I believe the suspect ran towards the guy that shot him, not away.
Just an opinion of mine that  
Headhunter : 4/16/2015 11:47 am : link
this "cop groupie" fantasized about taking down a bad guy if given the opportunity. He did not 'join" the force to give out tickets or direct traffic. This was his dream come true that turned into our nightmare. Just my opinion
RE: Age is a distraction  
sphinx : 4/16/2015 12:00 pm : link
In comment 12235814 WideRight said:
Quote:
There are plenty of guys that age with faculties and talents to handle this work.

If you told me a 73 yer old who was a career police officer I might agree. But some 73 year old who spent his life as an insurance executive with no on the street background? No way.

From the reports ...
It was a "Violent Crimes Task Force" and
During a briefing hours before the shooting, Bates said he was informed that Harris was “a bad son of a b----” who had gang affiliations. Deputies in attendance were told Harris was known to carry a gun and to consider him armed and dangerous.

Why in world was he there?



RE: RE: Age is a distraction  
j_rud : 4/16/2015 12:11 pm : link
In comment 12235864 sphinx said:
Quote:
In comment 12235814 WideRight said:


Quote:


There are plenty of guys that age with faculties and talents to handle this work.


If you told me a 73 yer old who was a career police officer I might agree. But some 73 year old who spent his life as an insurance executive with no on the street background? No way.

From the reports ...
It was a "Violent Crimes Task Force" and
During a briefing hours before the shooting, Bates said he was informed that Harris was “a bad son of a b----” who had gang affiliations. Deputies in attendance were told Harris was known to carry a gun and to consider him armed and dangerous.

Why in world was he there?




Because he was a cop groupie with the money to indulge his fascination. He "paid to play", purchasing at least five vehicles and a special fingerprinting machine for the task force he was assigned to.

This is incredibly cut and dry to me: a citizen used money to curry favor with the police. Someone is now dead because a clearly unqualified person was pretty much posing as a cop. If they want to use auxiliary officers let them write tickets and act as security at town events, don't let them carry guns and put them on a violent crime task force, it's a recipe for disaster. Why someone had to die to figure that out is beyond me.
If I read this stuff as fiction  
Big Al : 4/16/2015 12:17 pm : link
I would have said this was not credible.
he got scared and he shot him.  
wigs in nyc : 4/16/2015 12:21 pm : link
why in hell was this guy armed?
And now we're to the point  
sphinx : 4/16/2015 12:21 pm : link
of questioning if he even had the meager qualifications for his "title". Did the Sheriff's Dept actually falsify his records? At the very least, they can't find some important records, per the Sheriffs admission.

I'm surprised they even admitted they "can't find" the records.  
j_rud : 4/16/2015 12:29 pm : link
Even under scrutiny I'd expect at least one person to say " fuck it...forge them" if they weren't immediately available. If only because I work in a field with loads of record keeping and 8 out of 10 times something is missing that's the answer: fudge it.
I thought  
Big Al : 4/16/2015 12:30 pm : link
that incident where they hired that female cop who screwed up a few jobs previously, and then shot the guy holding the video game controller, was bad. This is even worse. There needs to be some responsibilty and consequences for those in charge putting armed people in such positions of authority.
Big Al  
Headhunter : 4/16/2015 12:40 pm : link
the point is, he had no authority, he gave himself the authority, while the real authorities, turned a blind eye foer the money he donated
Earlier in this episode ...  
sphinx : 4/16/2015 12:47 pm : link
Quote:
A deputy who made a callous comment to a man who had just been shot did not hear the gunshot and didn’t know the man had been wounded, sheriff’s officials told the Tulsa World. [...]

The witness list is attached to a second-degree manslaughter charge filed Tuesday against Robert Bates, a reserve deputy who said he mistook his gun for a Taser when he shot Eric Harris, who was on the ground and unarmed.

In the video, Harris can be heard saying, “I’m losing my breath,” to which a deputy replies, “F- — your breath.”

The deputy who made that statement to Harris after he had been shot is Joseph Byars. Deputy Michael Huckeby is shown in the video kneeling on Harris’ head as a deputy yells at Harris, “You shouldn’t have ran,” and “Shut the f- — up.”

Because the deputies’ faces are obscured in the video, it is difficult to tell who made those statements.

After Harris was shot, he repeatedly told the deputies he had been shot — yelling, “He shot me!” — and blood could be seen trickling down his outstretched right arm.

I added the emphasis

read more - ( New Window )
RE: I'm surprised they even admitted they  
Deej : 4/16/2015 12:50 pm : link
In comment 12235935 j_rud said:
Quote:
Even under scrutiny I'd expect at least one person to say " fuck it...forge them" if they weren't immediately available. If only because I work in a field with loads of record keeping and 8 out of 10 times something is missing that's the answer: fudge it.


Look at the first post. Seems like maybe someone did want to go down the forge route and got push back.
I own an old 357 SW model 19 4 in barrel revolver  
Zebra3 : 4/16/2015 1:10 pm : link
And have also fired many tasers and can tell you you known the difference in weight and handles right away. Even with gloves on in the dead of winter I can tell by feel.
He got scared or was ramped up on adrenaline in a He or me situation and chose to fire.
seems like everyone has covered  
bc4life : 4/16/2015 1:17 pm : link
most of the bases.

this is one of those cases where you try to reach a $ settlement early.

and this could possibly turn into a criminal investigation beyond the shooting (e.g., falsifying government records).

WTF were they thinking?
this isn't the first time the "taser excuse" has been used  
Greg from LI : 4/16/2015 1:25 pm : link
The shooting of Oscar Grant by BART police officer Johannes Mehserle in San Francisco in 2010 also had the shooter claim he mistook his pistol for a taser.
Link - ( New Window )
Greg that's what I immediately thought of  
schabadoo : 4/16/2015 2:00 pm : link
That officer seemed to legitimately mix up his weapons. He was very nonchalant about shooting him. I think they just had been issued tasers.

RE: seems like everyone has covered  
j_rud : 4/16/2015 2:03 pm : link
In comment 12236052 bc4life said:
Quote:
most of the bases.

this is one of those cases where you try to reach a $ settlement early.

and this could possibly turn into a criminal investigation beyond the shooting (e.g., falsifying government records).

WTF were they thinking?

Thanks for the trucks Fake Deputy Bates!!!
fake deputies  
spike : 4/16/2015 2:10 pm : link
should not be allowed to carry guns, like the nyc auxiliary police
RE: I own an old 357 SW model 19 4 in barrel revolver  
j_rud : 4/16/2015 2:14 pm : link
In comment 12236035 Zebra3 said:
Quote:
And have also fired many tasers and can tell you you known the difference in weight and handles right away. Even with gloves on in the dead of winter I can tell by feel.
He got scared or was ramped up on adrenaline in a He or me situation and chose to fire.


Absolutely agree. He was absolutely unprepared and lacked the training to be in a situation like that. Even amped up on adrenaline I don't know how this happens. I've held that exact model .357 in my hands plenty over the years and I'll never understand how he thought he was holding a taser.
If you can't tell the difference between your sidearm.....  
CBSGameFace : 4/16/2015 2:18 pm : link
........and your Tazer, you're senile. And you shouldn't have either in your possesion.
Ugh...  
RC02XX : 4/16/2015 3:59 pm : link
I can't even imagine the helplessness that Harris felt as he laid there bleeding to death while a group of shitty deputies and their groupie knelt over him with little sympathy.
Update:  
sphinx : 4/16/2015 5:45 pm : link
Quote:
The Maricopa County (Arizona) Sheriff's Office on Thursday questioned a training claim made by Reserve Deputy Robert Bates in the aftermath of a fatal shooting.

In a statement that the 73-year-old reserve deputy gave the sheriff's office following the fatal shooting of Eric Harris during an undercover operation on April 2, Bates noted he had taken "active shooter training" from the Maricopa County Sheriff's Office.

Lisa Allen, chief media relations office for the sheriff's office there, said they had no record of Bates attending their training.In fact, Allen said, that training is only available to members of the Maricopa County Sheriff's Office, meaning Bates would not have been eligible. The class, Allen said, has only been offered three times.

"We don't allow out-of-state people to take the class," she said. "I'm only surmising, and I can't confirm this because this would not have been our class, but our active shooter instructor did travel to Dallas once to teach a class.

"Maybe he took that class and is saying he took it through us, but again, that would not have been our class, so we have no way to verify if he attended it or not."

In Bates’ seven-page statement to Tulsa County sheriff’s investigators, obtained by the World on Wednesday, the reserve deputy states he previously attended a five-day homicide investigation school in Dallas and received “active shooter response training” by the Maricopa County Sheriff’s Office.

Link - ( New Window )
RE: Greg that's what I immediately thought of  
Greg from LI : 4/17/2015 9:02 am : link
In comment 12236153 schabadoo said:
Quote:
That officer seemed to legitimately mix up his weapons. He was very nonchalant about shooting him. I think they just had been issued tasers.



Yes. I believed Mehserle because, watching the video, he looks stunned after the shooting. Doesn't absolve him, but I do believe it was a tragic mistake. What I wonder, in this case, is if this geezer took his cues from that case - IOW, he went into the situation prepared to use the taser excuse if he shot someone.
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